Mm.
The point was more about scum being able to manipulate, as opposed to saying they had a particular manipulation role. Roleblock just was the first that came to mind - as I said.
k well we'll see.
Did a small read on Zen... not CottonLicky because I don't want to go through 180 posts total :|. It was kind of interesting. First since I think it's within all our interests, would Zen mind giving a history of the PM wagon?
As in, why were you for PM's wagon at the start, when/how did the reason change if at all, and why are you still for it. Sorry if this is asking a lot but I really think it'll help everyone. It doesn't have to be that detailed I just want a summary from your point of view, mainly.
Let's see:
D1 I didn't like how he answered to the policy lynch question. It was an over reactive disagreement. Yet he ended up joining in the policy wagon on Mori.
Didn't like his case on me and his constant attention on me solely, despite thinking me town and voted Mori. He also kept trying to push his case on stuff I never said.
My original case on PM
D2 I still felt he was scum. I went back and forth between him and the-man and when DH replaced in I stuck with DH.
D3 I felt he could be put aside for toDay basically for the same reasons as Gordito has. But after actually looking at the reasoning he's not as clear as it would seem. My suspicion was brought back when he became so willing to put aside Mentos simply because he bread crumbed who he would recruit. Yet yesterday he felt pretty strong that Mentos should be the play if he failed to recruit. I guess because he felt that Mentos was just making up who he was going to recruit after seeing the flips? But if he were scum he simply could have killed the person he bread crumbed. That a long with what X1 pointed out is why I still find PM scummy.
Do you agree/disagree that you can nail scum on one post? => do you think normally town players can be excused for one post of scumminess?
1. Only if the tell is strong enough. Which isn't usually the case.
2. I don't know what you mean by the second question. From what perspective?
Smar:
Zen has been lying and twisting his own words around all day to try and make it look like he wasn't clearing his scumbuddy. See the recent posts on how he totally intended to change to DH and how he didn't really believe DH was town, and then take a look at his 967/968. There's a teensy little contradiction there.
967/8 was an obvious joke. In my recent post I said it was a possibility that I could have switched to DH, not that it was my intention all along or had been.
1135 is a an overreaction to the pressure he's coming under. It's curious to compare this to his play the last two days when he wasn't under pressure. +scum points.
How's it overreaction?? Swiss kept saying the same things over and I kept defending myself and it was getting stupid frustrating.
1174 basically says DH has more experience than I knew about. However, the reason the qt thing supposedly cleared DH yesterday was because he's a new player - in fact, I believe Zen says something to the effect of loving new players because they're so easy to clear. But Zen knew DH had all this offsite experience. Which was it?
Pay attention chick. I asked him about it at the end of the day. The day ended before I could even go further into it:
-DH: I see you have been playing epic mafia hm. About how many times have you been scum? Don't lie, I can check.
I'm addicted to it x_x. 7 times, though epic mafia & forum mafia are pretty different when it comes to finding out scum (ex: in epicmfia, people will claim their powers roles and what they got, even with the chance that the maf might kill them. )
Also, my statistics are hardly accurate, as I've played more roles than that (ex: i've been oracle like 4 times, and lightkeeper 3, and a vig once. I'm pretty sure there's more, I just forgot it.)
I just went back, read again, and changed my mind, as there isn't as much evidence as I thought there was.
In post 1154, Zen goes after X1 for not being able to read Swiss despite the fact that they can always read each other. This gets a half-hearted answer, which X1 then never pursues. Also in this post, Zen is convinced X1 is scum - but his vote doesn't follow. Why not?
Are you saying this is scummy of X1 or me? I never said I was convinced X1 was scum. Also wasn't my vote on him at this time anyways?
Zen is hardcore tunneling on PM, despite an improvement in play and adequate responses to previous arguments/pressure. Furthermore, Zen hasn't introduced new evidence against PM - he's relying on the same arguments from Day 1. That just doesn't cut it and it feels like scum trying to push a mislynch.
Nah. I was Swiss or Swiss earlier, X1 or X1 about mid day, and now I'm PM or PM. That's not tunneling and I have new reasons. I said my next vote would be my final choice for I think should be play. I wanted to do some review of D2 and over PM , X1, and yourself. But me having to defend myself is just wasting my time.
Also, I personally feel like he's trying to buddy us. No post to go here, but a gut feeling that makes me very uncomfortable.
lol duh. You've been buddying me hardcore from D1. We've been holding hands and have thought you were town most of the game.
Finally, we don't buy the rolefishing excuse. Town does have roleblockers, and sometimes town and scum will both have versions of the same power role. Also, I don't buy that Swiss of all people would crumb "scum roleblocker" the way Zen seems to think he has. Rolefishing stands.
I don't expect you to understand this, but I'm gonna lol if Swiss flips scum blocker. I won't argue with this because I think we just see it differently and I don't know what else to say.
1. We've pretty much established Mentos is town; it was pretty much established when this was posted. Why is Zen feeling out support for a wagon on confirmed town?
Since when was Mentos confirmed town O_O. Stop failing...
2. So ... the only two people online and able to coach DH are Swiss and Zen. This is apparently proof that Swiss is scum. I say that sword cuts two ways and it's equally ****ing for Zen.
True.
Zen: Assume for the sake of discussion that we can't lynch PM today. Who is your next choice?
Still thinking we need to look into X1 more. Since you're online all the time, would you be willing to review all XS/X1's post before the day end pleeaze
?
Right now I'm thinking PM or X1 or Swiss. PM right now until I can get some more review. But I realize the day is close to it's end so meh.
I'm thinking
PM-FFS
Swiss-X1
right now as scumates. I'm also very sad that people are just overlooking mentos despite him never scumhunting and basically riding his claim the whole game.
FFS:
I found it odd that he started off D2 so confident in Gotenks, given that Gotenks claimed a role that is semi-confirmable.
I wanted him lynched the day before yo. And I still wanted him lynched. Him not recruiting anybody didn't better my opinion. And I don't trust recruiters because they could easily be cult or mafia recruiter. And after a failed recruit N1, I didn't think he would be confirmed any time soon at that rate.
He's been doing this since mid-D2, already explained that I don't like it. Especially don't like that he was looking for a PR on someone he knew wasn't going to get lynched that day, that serves no purpose except to give information to scum.
Not much more to say to this. Not seeing why you are bringing up old points though. I suppose you need reason for your vote so it doesn't look as if you are just hopping on, yeah?
-too many posts to quote-
Remember how I found it odd that DH was so clueless as if none of his scumbuddies told him what to do? When I was rereading Zen's D2, I got the feeling that Zen was guiding DH, having him do easy things like restate Zen's reasoning for DH being town along with asking what should be expected of him.
No just no. I was just asking him questions. I would just talk to him in the QT we know there is if I was his scumbuddy.
This is from D2. I was useless the rest of D2, started D3 by being useless, outrageous, and "sucky". The "stop being useless or die" part never really happened I guess. Like what I was saying in my first post today, it's really easy to say that, but I like how he did nothing to follow up on it. Looking good by threatening a cruiser, heh.
My point was to get you to contribute. I wasn't accusing you as scum at this time.
I must say that post is quite odd FFS.
---------------------------------
PM: Respond to this.
PM: You agree with the points Swiss has made on me, but all of the points he's made on me are in regards to D2 and D3. Yet you're saying that a d1 reread has made you in agreement with Swiss' case? Wanna shed some light on this:3?
@the bottom of you're 1158: You do realize the reason for asking Swiss what he thought about you was because I felt he was trying to unreasonably pressure you, not because I was trying to target you?? I asked him and X1 their reasoning because I feel they cannot come up with it. Scum hunting you had nothing to do with it. lol good **** dude. 95 my *** right?
