Halo Game - Ovah

[#HBC | Dancer]

I have nothing new to really say in this debate, but I endorse what Gheb has said and what OS is saying.

@Broken: completly forgot to thank you for this game. So thanks.

Anyways, sorry I kinda dropped out on the game. Simple truth is, I was having trouble getting into it, and X1 managed to just kinda take over Day 3. Thankfully X1 did plenty good by himself, and I owe him a thousand thanks for taking over for me.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Saying 'imo' is presenting my opinion as fact?

When the only implication being made is that games of the structure in question are a successful and progressive take on the mafia metagame simply because it has been done before and according to your standards were, "successful", then yes, you are using an opinion as if it were empirical evidence.

Hence, "presenting".

 

[Swiss]

Can we not just go back to congratulating scum?

I think we should to that.

*Lol I totally got Zen lynched post*

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

うん、わるい。ごめん。

ぼくもそれしたほうがいいだろうと思う。

スッカムおめでとうございます！

お疲れ。　ＸＰ

 

[BSL]

damn you and your japanese!

 

[Tom]

When the only implication being made is that games of the structure in question are a successful and progressive take on the mafia metagame simply because it has been done before and according to your standards were, "successful", then yes, you are using an opinion as if it were empirical evidence.

Hence, "presenting".

they're on mafiascum. you can go look at them. they are pretty impressive and you're being gross nitpicky.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I know they're on MS, they were linked before in the Social thread or some other thread before.

That game style is certainly playable, that I won't contest, and the fact that the games were able to resolve and players were actually able to develop legitimate strategies to scum hunt and what not is proof of that. Not explaining your actions doesn't make the game unplayable and I was never trying to contend that.

The point is though I have to be nitpicky. You're taking a hard stance against our current metagame, and any criticism of a naturally developed metagame is itself nitpicky by default. Debating what an ideal metagame is, is by its very nature, a debate of nitpicking. I'm sorry if it bothers you but I mean, that's the can of worms you opened. =/

I just can't at all see how one can possibly contend that mafia metagame with explanations for actions included, and thus available for analysis, is somehow better and provides a healthier, deeper, more strategic game than mafia without any explanations.

If you can't prove that then you really can't contend that Moriarity's style of play is as good or better than normal play. You basically have to concede that it is distinctly self limiting, subpar performance. That doesn't mean you can't play that way, nor does it mean you can't play pro your wincon whatever it may be. It just means that you are naturally going to be doing likely less than your best at achieving your wincon compared to playing normally, and will likley get more attention/flak than normal.

In conclusion, that playstyle is just an interesting, but distinctly limiting take on the game, much akin to how BabyJesus would often play. It's not abominable, but it has drawbacks that normal play doesn't have. Again, it's ultimately the player's choice to decide how they want to play, but you can't act like people are out of their minds or in the wrong for being critical of the playstyle. It's a natural response really. *shrug*

I'm not trying to be a ****, I'm just trying to clarify what reasonable expectations should be.

 

[X1-12]

Swords you should send your MVP choices to marshy/Xiivi

shamelessly want those dice

 

[EdreesesPieces]

うん、わるい。ごめん。

ぼくもそれしたほうがいいだろうと思う。

スッカムおめでとうございます！

お疲れ。　ＸＰ

damn you and your japanese!

Here's a translation courtesty of myself

"Yes, my bad. Sorry. I also think we should do that.
Congratulations scum!

I'm tired/thank you"

 

[Deleted member]

- I really wished I didn't have to replace out. Real life is taking up way too much time for me to play and I'm still struggling with an Internet addiction that I need to get out of. I'm hoping that when real life starts to let go and I'm confident that Mafia won't be such a too time-consuming activity that I'll be able to return to Decisive Games in full form.

- SwordsRBroken/Xiivi hosted a great game that I honestly enjoyed reading in my spare times, even after replacing out. It was entertaining, fast-paced, and a very good example of how a game should be ran. Looking forward to playing or at least watching Swords's next game.

- Town and Mafia played very well. Both had strong players on their sides that made strong contribution to fulfilling their win condition for their faction and helped them a lot. For the town, especially worth of notice are ForeverZero (Overswarm/FrozenFlame hydra), Chuckie (Kataefi/Vanderzant) and Smarboy69 (Smargaret/GorditoBoy69). As for the scums, while tHe-Man/Dark Horse's play were lackluster, XSword (Sworddancer/X1-X12)/Regal Cheese (Sir Bevere/Swiss) played a fantastic game. The fact that both players on my original scum list managed to slip away from suspicion as the game went on is a very impressive feat, especially considering I had Regal Cheese as a very scummy player when I first stepped in. They clearly deserved MVP's award.

- Props to Sold2 for playing pretty well in this game. When I had to replace out due to real life issues, I was glad to see Sold2 pick up his play and ran with the bat. I can see Sold2 as a potentially great player in the future if he realize the full potential of his play. I'm also glad that me and Sold2 managed to step in the game together to prevent an otherwise likely mod-kill on the rPSI slot. I think both of us would blend in pretty well as a hydra in future games.

- Thanks to the mods for modding a great game and thanks to the players for making this an enjoyable experience for everyone who played in here!

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Reallllly close Edrees.

The last part is the casual form of "Thanks for the hard work!" which pretty much translates to good work (directed at the scum).

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Ahhh I see. I like how you used "warui" for my bad. LOL. Took me awhile to pick up on that

 

[Tom]

I know they're on MS, they were linked before in the Social thread or some other thread before.

That game style is certainly playable, that I won't contest, and the fact that the games were able to resolve and players were actually able to develop legitimate strategies to scum hunt and what not is proof of that. Not explaining your actions doesn't make the game unplayable and I was never trying to contend that.

The point is though I have to be nitpicky. You're taking a hard stance against our current metagame, and any criticism of a naturally developed metagame is itself nitpicky by default. Debating what an ideal metagame is, is by its very nature, a debate of nitpicking. I'm sorry if it bothers you but I mean, that's the can of worms you opened. =/

I just can't at all see how one can possibly contend that mafia metagame with explanations for actions included, and thus available for analysis, is somehow better and provides a healthier, deeper, more strategic game than mafia without any explanations.

If you can't prove that then you really can't contend that Moriarity's style of play is as good or better than normal play. You basically have to concede that it is distinctly self limiting, subpar performance. That doesn't mean you can't play that way, nor does it mean you can't play pro your wincon whatever it may be. It just means that you are naturally going to be doing likely less than your best at achieving your wincon compared to playing normally, and will likley get more attention/flak than normal.

In conclusion, that playstyle is just an interesting, but distinctly limiting take on the game, much akin to how BabyJesus would often play. It's not abominable, but it has drawbacks that normal play doesn't have. Again, it's ultimately the player's choice to decide how they want to play, but you can't act like people are out of their minds or in the wrong for being critical of the playstyle. It's a natural response really. *shrug*

I'm not trying to be a ****, I'm just trying to clarify what reasonable expectations should be.

i can see and agree to all of this. its rational and true. i believe something but i cant come up with a real argument for it. that sucks. your stuff is legit. i cant really argue against it. though. i cannot agree with newby bad players (forgive me, maybe they arent bad, but i dont recognize some of them) instantly saying that they will lynch moriarty d1 because i use pictures. thats just dumb.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@ Edreeses, yeah it's kind of a fun way to use warui. It's used more commonly than you might think it a lot of Japanese media. But yeah it doesn't quite translate directly, so I can understand that throwing someone for a loop at first hahaha.

@ Tom: Yeah, I don't think that the most prudent response to a player playing like Moriarity is immediately lynching them either. The playstyle certainly warrants more attention being directed at the player, which may come in more pressure votes and what have you, but I do think there is merit to keeping someone playing like that alive. It's all contextual and depends on his relative scummyness to other players though of course.