Q&A 'Guin Saga (DDD General/Q&A thread)

[MattNF]

Melee never needed "patches".... just smarter play
Characters aren't bad, only players

Pichu.

 

[KarmaJolt]

so in 3.0, according to the changelist, fsmash's meteor hitbox now only affects grounded opponents. Because DDD needed nerfing I guess.

Hold on though. Isn't this basically a buff? Because now, instead of an off-stage opponent having the chance to meteor cancel, they just get sent way far out to their deaths. Or is it just harder to hit a recovering opponent with F-smash? That is, does the removal of this hitbox translate into a smaller area of coverage?

 

[Ripple]

It literally means that hitbox doesn't exist offstage

 

[KarmaJolt]

Well I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't know much about the meteor hitbox before it was removed. Did it reach farther down than the rest of the hammer? All I knew was that I hated when it was meteor canceled, and I would much rather have seen it send my opponent out instead of down.

 

[9bit]

Well I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't know much about the meteor hitbox before it was removed. Did it reach farther down than the rest of the hammer?

I believe so. I think it had like a pocket of air around the hammer that hit the opponent downward. But I may be misremembering. I only ever landed it a few times.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

lol fsmash meteor was my bread and butter for edgeguarding. Also, fsmash was strong enough that it required ridiculous timing to cancel it within range of another recovery. If I could land it that means it was really easy, so it makes sense that they nerfed it. New shield pushback is a mixed bag, DDD can grab out of more things, but his shield is a lot less safe and he gets grabbed more.

 

[9bit]

Down-B, down-tilt, and a well-timed fast-falled forward-air are still incredible on-stage edge-guarding tools and have super low hitboxes. Damn that was a lot of hyphens. They aren't as safe to use, but they're easier to time (at least for me) and less telegraphed.

As for the shield thing, it's true that we need to watch for getting shield grabbed much more now, but it just means we need to get better at spacing, which is the way it really should be. It took me a while to fully understand all the complaints I'd been reading about shield pushback. But I get it now. Spacing. It's like important. And I wasn't really worried about in PM so much before this: you could just rush in and spam on someone's shield without too much worry of getting punished. Now you gotta be more accurate. You gotta use the hammer's range more effectively and not go in too far. Eh, I'll take it for the benefit we get with our giant grab range.

Also we livin' longer on those stages with increased ceiling height now :D

 

[KarmaJolt]

Also, can I officially complain about how they removed the "King" from "King Dedede" on the character selection page? It makes him sound less regal, and therefore, overall respect for the character will decrease.

 

[Shaya]

I think this is a nerf that we cannot live with.

 

[Vanguard]

@F-Smash changes
So i see our DDD change log is misleading. My apologies, I should have caught that. The quake meteor hitbox only hits vs grounded. But the spike on the hammer face still hits aerial.

In version 2.6, there was an error with how the meteor and spike was coded. The large quake box only meant to hit grounded opponents was allowed to hit aerial as well. So you could connect and edge guard from much further away than intended, and more easily than intended. Now you can properly hit with the hammer face whack-a-mole spike, without the quake hit interfering.

 

[jtm94]

The way F-Smash was before I watched 2 of my friends play and MULTIPLE times Dedede's f-smash hit the other character when he was exceedingly far below the ledge and it would meteor him when he wasn't even close. That was way too good. Idk if the quake was a metoeor and hit in the air, but it had insane reach. As it is NOW, I have landed F-Smash on aerial opponents and it just knocks them back like usual so the meteor is gone, unless ridiculously hard to land.

My buddy just won a local tournament with DDD. His ledgeguard game is SO good. I was watching him take stocks in just a few seconds from an experienced Fox and Falco. F-Air/B-Air are so good.

 

[Vanguard]

The spike box is hard to land. But it can be reliable with practice. It's only active a few frames, just like the quake box. The only reason it was easier to land before was because of the colossal size. It is now working as intended.

 

[KarmaJolt]

Never realized that DDD could swallow Snake's grenade. (Literally. Not a euphamism for... something)
Try it, he makes a funny face and it is comical.

I just read that D3 gets light armor while charging Rocket Hammer. I don't have PM myself, and I am at work, so I can't test it. I'm basically wondering if I can use it to walk through a Razor Leaf. Can we start a list of "**** Dedede can just walk right through without giving a damn while menacingly grinning and holding an explosive thing-on-a-stick?"

 

[jtm94]

I tried it and DDD can walk through(only when hammer is fully charged) just about any projectile in the game. He cannot walk through a 3/4 charged shadow ball/charge shot, or a fully charged aura sphere. He can also body most tilts and jabs while in this state.

 

[Plum]

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

G-Reg putting in some work with DDD at Xanadu on stream right now for those interested.

 

[Shaya]

Just an FYI, Dedede's jab is the best move in the game.
Nothing more glorious than well spaced jab to grab beating everyone's oos options

and also it combos into grab.

I'd call it an option select if it just flat out wasn't an OPTION WIN.

 

[9bit]

You can combo jab into a lot of stuff, it's amazing. Saw G-reg combo it into d-tilt at least a couple times, stabbed right under their shields.

 

[Morphine]

This is extremely interesting. This means you could potentially gimp at the lowest of percentages. Jab grab dthrow ftilt shffl fair. I'm not near a setup for another week so could someone check if this is viable?


Also please add back the king to his name... I've always referred to him as King and it's quite disheartening not seeing that

 

[9bit]

What are your guys' thoughts on Gordos not following the same trajectory as other Waddles?

I'm not really digging it, myself. If you work hard and get your angles really good, and you are trying to hit someone with a Waddle, you can totally miss them if you happen to pull a Gordo instead.

Yeah it's great that they're strong and do good knockback, but what's the point if you can't throw them where you want them to go? It's bad enough that you can't use them to recover lol! I just think they should travel in the same trajectory as your other "projectiles" otherwise they can really screw you over rather than be a helpful bit of RNG.

Meh. What do you think about it?

 

[Ripple]

I always throw them assuming they will be gordo.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Also please add back the king to his name... I've always referred to him as King and it's quite disheartening not seeing that

I assume after all the crap he put the citizens of Dreamland through, he just lost his kingship.

What are your guys' thoughts on Gordos not following the same trajectory as other Waddles?

I'm not really digging it, myself. If you work hard and get your angles really good, and you are trying to hit someone with a Waddle, you can totally miss them if you happen to pull a Gordo instead.

Yeah it's great that they're strong and do good knockback, but what's the point if you can't throw them where you want them to go? It's bad enough that you can't use them to recover lol! I just think they should travel in the same trajectory as your other "projectiles" otherwise they can really screw you over rather than be a helpful bit of RNG.

Meh. What do you think about it?

I've never really been a fan of him throwing Gordos in the first place. Random chance never strikes me as a good choice for attacks, and asides from the "OH SHIIII" factor that Gordos can possess when you get them at the right time, it just seems silly to have. If his Waddles were just a tad better, they could probably get rid of Gordos completely and give Dedede more consistency.

 

[Morphine]

I really only use waddles as an edge guard move or to approach quickly with the dash. Gordos, common or not, don't really come into play that often.

 

[g-regulate]

jab can be crouch canceled

 

[Morphine]

G reg. tryna teach me some dedede at Xanadu on Tuesday?

 

[DKMikey]

Q1: How do you throw the waddle right in front of you for horizontal recovery? Any way I can practice this?
Q2: Does down + A send the opponents upwards or downwards? Because I've had both experiences.

 

[9bit]

Q1: How do you throw the waddle right in front of you for horizontal recovery? Any way I can practice this?
Q2: Does down + A send the opponents upwards or downwards? Because I've had both experiences.

A1: There are a couple methods to use a Waddle glide for recovery

• The easiest is to use an aerial jump and soft-throw (not smash throw) the Waddle upward then use another jump to get right next to it and air-dodge the direction you want to fly.
• A slightly harder method is to use an aerial jump and soft-throw a Waddle straight downward and then move the control stick back to either holding straight forward or diagonally down and forward. You can then wait a little bit and your should align with the Waddle in the air and you can proceed to Waddle glide like normal.
  • Instead of Waddle gliding completely horizontally, you can hold forward and down diagonally on the control stick and repeatedly press the L or R button to glide and keep re-catching the Waddle without having to use any additional jumps. You can end this by either jumping, using your Up-B, or by Waddle gliding normally (that is, completely horizontally) for mixups.

A2: Do you mean down-air? Hitting down-A while in the air or on the ground? I'm going to assume you mean in the air because that move can send the opponent up or down, depending on where you hit them. On a "normal" hit of down-air the opponent will get sent upward. But there is an additional hitbox on the move that can send the opponent down. I don't know the exact details on it, but you can find out more about it by playing around with the move and seeing what works for you. I think to send them downward you want the opponent to be slightly in front of your hammer, not right below or directly within it. But I could be wrong.

 

[Ripple]

5th place at a 60 man tournament

got lots of videos

 

[9bit]

^ I am excited for this

 

[victra♥]

what is everyone's thoughts on dedede's edgegame? Ive found a lot of success camping the edge cause his ledge game and planking is ridiculous lol. waddle dee throws above the stage, fair is big af, and dair from ledge seems incredibly hard to punish.

 

[RabidJackal]

If you just F-air from the ledge & regrab you are basically invincible. Sometimes I'll just camp like that when I'm at high % and once I think it's safe enough I'll perfect waveland back on

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Which grab has better frame data and range? DDD's dash grab or DDD's jump-canceled grab?

 

[MegaGuy]

JC grab is almost always the better option. Very little endlag when compared to dash grab, though I think dash grab has slightly more range.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Another question. Which characters can we pseudo-chaingrab (if they DI the D-throw incorrectly)?

 

[MegaGuy]

I think I can answer this too. From my experience, I've been able to chaingrab various characters in various weight classes. From big bruisers like Bowser and DK to lightweights like Kirby. I remember it not working on Fox/Falco, but I'm pretty sure it works on Wolf. However, as time goes on - both in individual sets and throughout the development of the metagame as a whole - this will become just another gimmick.

 

[Dream Land Works]

I haven't had the chance to really test it out with another player, but I've been able to standing d-throw chain grab people occasionally on the moving platform of Smashville while chain grabbing them in the direction the platform is moving. I'm pretty sure it can be escape with proper DI though.

 

[shadow1moon]

Has anyone else had success with D-Air into Grab? I have been trying to do it more often to see how reliable it is, and have been getting it off to many times for me to think it is a fluke.

 

[Ripple]

that's pretty much my go to edge guard if they try going low. falcon and ganon get wrecked by it

 

[KarmaJolt]

Dair into grab was my bread and butter for a long time before I started mixing it up into Dair - Uptilt. Or Dair Down Taunt.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Also, can I officially complain about how they removed the "King" from "King Dedede" on the character selection page? It makes him sound less regal, and therefore, overall respect for the character will decrease.

I think this is a nerf that we cannot live with.

I agree. I would legitimately like to know why this was done. It seems like removing the title would be more trouble than it's worth.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

King DeDeDe should have a way to make Waddle Dee's spawn behind him directly in front of him, similar to how Snake can drop his grenades behind him. Holding shield during side special to make him drop a Waddle Dee directly in front of him would be very nice.