Q&A 'Guin Saga (DDD General/Q&A thread)

[Omni]

Interesting. Meaty N-air isn't safe on shield? I've been catching people with meaty n-air on shield to up-tilt a lot (unsafe of course). Maybe up-tilt has some special properties that allow you to avoid certain moves? Hrm. I do know DDD turns into a tiny, baby DDD when he up-tilts so maybe his hurtbox shrinks.

K more questions:

1.) Would meaty b-air have better frame advantage on shield? I wanted to test to see if DDD can do any Marth like things on shield. Specifically like how Marth can f-air your shield and dash behind you before a shieldgrab comes out.

2.) Back to jabs. Is there a way of cancelling the jabs recovery faster similar to how you could with like Samus or Falcon in Melee? I believe there were properties where you could like hold down or press jab + shield to prevent the 3rd twister jab from coming out.

3.) Does DDD have any of his swallow shenanigans where he turns around in spot and if they break out you get a free up-tilt?

 

[Plum]

Up tilt has brief invincibility so perhaps you are catching them with that as they try to grab?

 

[Omni]

Up-tilt has brief invincibility? Full body?

 

[Plum]

Yeah, full body.
Just checked the frame data thread, invincible on frames 7 and 8.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

huh I did not know that that invincibility was a thing

also how the hell am I supposed to beat a link

 

[Ripple]

Interesting. Meaty N-air isn't safe on shield? I've been catching people with meaty n-air on shield to up-tilt a lot (unsafe of course). Maybe up-tilt has some special properties that allow you to avoid certain moves? Hrm. I do know DDD turns into a tiny, baby DDD when he up-tilts so maybe his hurtbox shrinks.

K more questions:

1.) Would meaty b-air have better frame advantage on shield? I wanted to test to see if DDD can do any Marth like things on shield. Specifically like how Marth can f-air your shield and dash behind you before a shieldgrab comes out.

2.) Back to jabs. Is there a way of cancelling the jabs recovery faster similar to how you could with like Samus or Falcon in Melee? I believe there were properties where you could like hold down or press jab + shield to prevent the 3rd twister jab from coming out.

3.) Does DDD have any of his swallow shenanigans where he turns around in spot and if they break out you get a free up-tilt?

1. DDD can't do anything like marth on shield, but Bair on shield is safe enough to not get grabbed.

2. yes, standard jab cancelling (holding down back) cancels jabs early and affects DDD.

3. Yes, but since there is no buffer in PM, it is difficult

 

[Shaya]

I don't know about nair's safety on shield, I get away with FFL nair on shield into grab on shine out of shield happy spacies.

 

[Omni]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've been able to successfully meaty n-air someone's shield then sidestep a shieldgrab. Hrm. Hrm...

 

[cannedbread]

How the hell do i ledgedash with this character

 

[Shaya]

What do you mean by ledge dash?

Wave landing from the ledge?
Dedede would be so broken if he could wavedash oos easier :[

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

How the hell do i ledgedash with this character

There are two ways of ledge-dashing with DDD. You either do a PM ledge-jump from the ledge and air-dodge onto the stage. This way prevents from one every accidentally dying by messing up your timing, but this way just feels kind of clunky to me to be honest. I believe Fly Amanita uses this method to ledge-dash. The other method is dropping down from the ledge by clicking in the opposite direction of which you are facing, jumping right away and then at the apex of your jump, you wavedash onto the stage. This method isn't very difficult to get down either, and it's kind of surprising too. They have to respect your space, since you have a large hammer, and ledge-dashing is relatively safe. Ripple uses this method to ledge-dash.

What do you mean by ledge dash?

Wave landing from the ledge?
Dedede would be so broken if he could wavedash oos easier :[

I'm in full agreement with you here. I don't normally play large characters that have higher jump squat frames, so I mess up the wavedash out of shield a lot and john about it so much

 

[NickLeo]

I don't know if this was mentioned by anyone previously, but Dthrow -> down B tech-chase is a ridiculously good kill option/mixup (not so sure about super floaties)
I just figured this out yesterday and wanted to share

 

[Apollo Ali]

Uh so whats the deal with dedede down throw regrabs?

I started trying it out after i saw Ripple do down throw, regrab, down throw, run off forward air off the edge. It seems like you can do them on-stage a lot of the cast given a certain DI. Is there anybody it's guaranteed on? I was using it in tourney today and I got like 4 regrabs against some people lmfao frickin brawl up in here.

If it's not guaranteed, are there DI mixups you can pull on the opponent?

 

[OldManDyl (OMD)]

If a Bowser player doesn't DI, D3 has standing infinate regrabs on him. There's that >_<

 

[Ripple]

Who doesn't di? Bad people

 

[Plum]

Well they are playing Bowser, so isn't it kind of assumed they are bad?

 

[Apollo Ali]

It wasn't just bowser, it was Lucas and other characters too. I was dash-grabbing.

I had figured it was something like that, but I had people saying they were DI-ing away and I was still re-grabbing.

 

[Ripple]

DI ing away does not always allow for an escape. it always baffles me how many people think that only the cardinal directions do anything for DI on throws or even moves

 

[Apollo Ali]

Agreed. I guess I was just curious if the DI escape-direction is universal, or character dependent. I found it much easier to do on Charizard, Bowser, Sheik and Lucas. It was also pools and I was ****ing around lol.

 

[Revolution6 aka alterego]

what waddle throw direction is best for waddle recovering
or is there a thread on waddledashing i can read

Sidenote: Is it me or is it easier to waveland with D3's doublejump+ instead of his initial jump?

 

[9bit]

what waddle throw direction is best for waddle recovering
or is there a thread on waddledashing i can read

Sidenote: Is it me or is it easier to waveland with D3's doublejump+ instead of his initial jump?

I wrote up this thing in this thread a while back

I'll see if I can break it down more (this is for recovering, so you just got hit by an attack and sent off stage)

1. Be holding the control stick towards the stage
2. Jump
3. Press B (it will be a side B because you're holding forward)
4. Angle the control stick up-diagonal to throw the Waddle at an upward angle
5. Go back to holding straight towards the stage
6. Jump again
7. Air-dodge (it will go towards the stage because you're holding forward)

That's really all there is to it. You will have 1 aerial jump remaining that you can use to jump and air-dodge again with, which will do another Waddle dash, if you so choose.

Now that is the way I consider the easiest to do it, but not necessarily the best in every situation. As you can see, it eats a lot of jumps doing it this way.

You can save one jump by doing the first Waddle toss as a straight downward angle:

• A slightly harder method is to use an aerial jump and soft-throw a Waddle straight downward and then move the control stick back to either holding straight forward or diagonally down and forward. You can then wait a little bit and your should align with the Waddle in the air and you can proceed to Waddle glide like normal.
  • Instead of Waddle gliding completely horizontally, you can hold forward and down diagonally on the control stick and repeatedly press the L or R button to glide and keep re-catching the Waddle without having to use any additional jumps. You can end this by either jumping, using your Up-B, or by Waddle gliding normally (that is, completely horizontally) for mixups.

 

[shadow1moon]

So I know this won't over helpful to many people, but I noticed when you cancel up b. You can clip a platform ledge and return to neutral. I don't know if your jumps back (I think you would since the game considers you hitting the ground.) But If anyone can practice and get better at it, I think it would be very helpful to aiding his safety of recovering with up b.
The stage I got it on was Lylat, so I do not know if it is only specific to this stage.

Edit: the best example of something similar to this is wavelanding at the edge of a platform. That is the same kind of motion i saw. He clipped the edge of the platform and fell normally.
Also in hindsight, I really doubt it will be useful. But I think it is pretty interesting to say the least.

Also! Has anyone else encounter this scenario against any character?
Ike Dash grabs DDD at any %. DDD instantly Breaks out of the grab.
This has only happened with DDD for me.
It occurred with Ike and Fox and possible DK to my knowledge.

 

[WINK ;)]

Alright, just recently decided to pick up Dedede... He's ****ing amazing.

Quick question though, what are some things I need to know about his play? Tech?

Also what are some of his best and worst match ups if you know? I would assume he gets rekted by Falco just cause all big bodies do. I would also assume Falcon has a pretty good edge on him due to the juggling.

I assume Dedede has a pretty good matchup against all other big bodies. Dedede could space DK, Bowser, Ganon pretty well to my first impressions of the character. Correct me if I am wrong please.

 

[Shaya]

Characters with risk have issues with Dedede. Dedede has the biggest standing grab range in the game, when you have characters who like being "close" and in your face with melee range moves, they tend to have a degree of issue.
Like, Dedede can legitimately kill fox/falco out of a grab at like any percent on nearly every stage in any spot. Back/forward throw off stage, or up throw fair, those two characters don't recover against D3 (a lot of characters can say that about spacies, but no, those two characters really cannot recover against dedede).

IMO the only two characters in the game that don't have projectiles that dedede doesn't beat is Sonic and Ganondorf. Ganon should be easy by design... but Dedede literally can only trade or lose to ganon's invisible disjoint aerials... Really has troubles with jab (safe on shield plz what the ****). Stuff like waddle toss is punishable on reaction with wizard foot... (gotta love it).

Otherwise he should be beating every character who doesn't have a projectile.

 

[Ripple]

DDD does not lose to ganon. we obliterate him

 

[Shaya]

That's what I thought, until many an hour of ganon spacing and significant outrewarding d3 in trade situations. I meant to say "doesn't beat" rather than "loses to".

Dedede's keep away game is pretty significant against nearly every other fatty. All of ganon's **** out disjoints D3's keep aways or trades. Ftilt's 6%ish to 20% from ganon's fair and being off stage; great scenario. That up air molests us beyond disbelief.

 

[Ripple]

you need to learn how to play DDD in this MU. you must be doing everything wrong

 

[Shaya]

I make spacies look so easy though. Why can't people just play spacies?

 

[WINK ;)]

Characters with risk have issues with Dedede. Dedede has the biggest standing grab range in the game, when you have characters who like being "close" and in your face with melee range moves, they tend to have a degree of issue.
Like, Dedede can legitimately kill fox/falco out of a grab at like any percent on nearly every stage in any spot. Back/forward throw off stage, or up throw fair, those two characters don't recover against D3 (a lot of characters can say that about spacies, but no, those two characters really cannot recover against dedede).

IMO the only two characters in the game that don't have projectiles that dedede doesn't beat is Sonic and Ganondorf. Ganon should be easy by design... but Dedede literally can only trade or lose to ganon's invisible disjoint aerials... Really has troubles with jab (safe on shield plz what the ****). Stuff like waddle toss is punishable on reaction with wizard foot... (gotta love it).

Otherwise he should be beating every character who doesn't have a projectile.

Yeah I can see Sonic mollywhopping D3... Haha.

I still feel like Falco can whoop D3 though....

 

[Shaya]

Falco not messing up does, sure. Grabbing Falco should be a stock. That fear works wonders in tournament setting. Especially when Dedede never dies.

 

[WINK ;)]

Falco not messing up does, sure. Grabbing Falco should be a stock. That fear works wonders in tournament setting. Especially when Dedede never dies.

Well my DI is pretty solid so I do live a long time and your right but since I am beginning with D3 I whiff some punishes but it will get better. But I feel like a grab isn't always a stock.... Up throw?

 

[Shaya]

Smaller stages (BF, YS, FoD/etc) has bthrow/fthrow virtually always put them off stage. Waddle toss, nair, bair, fair, forward tilt is easy to react to their jumps with, "trading" things always goes in your favour.

Up throw fair will almost always put them off stage.

If you're facing towards a ledge on a slightly larger stage, dthrow tech chase (while only mentally planning to cover the roll inwards option) is really solid. Dthrow to ftilt nearly always works and on even larger stage is enough to knock them off (not as good as a position as the "i'm now in your face" dash forward after dthrow but good nonetheless). Otherwise dthrow dash forward, easy peasy reactive stuff (dtilt out of dash is easy because of dash cancelling and has a kinda obnoxious reach/elongated hitbox length for small tech rolls).

Basically, Spacies off stage should be dead against Dedede. That's like a 95% thing (imo). Dedede getting a grab puts spacies off stage probably like 80% of the time.

Me against spacies is basically me holding/angling shield up and maintaining my cool (if only shield poking didnt exist) until they **** up by hitting his shield too high above the ground, in which case a reactive grab, a silly throw into some cheesy half assed nair or bair, or fair if I think they'll jump and then lelelelelelelelelelleel.

 

[WINK ;)]

Smaller stages (BF, YS, FoD/etc) has bthrow/fthrow virtually always put them off stage. Waddle toss, nair, bair, fair, forward tilt is easy to react to their jumps with, "trading" things always goes in your favour.

Up throw fair will almost always put them off stage.

If you're facing towards a ledge on a slightly larger stage, dthrow tech chase (while only mentally planning to cover the roll inwards option) is really solid. Dthrow to ftilt nearly always works and on even larger stage is enough to knock them off (not as good as a position as the "i'm now in your face" dash forward after dthrow but good nonetheless). Otherwise dthrow dash forward, easy peasy reactive stuff (dtilt out of dash is easy because of dash cancelling and has a kinda obnoxious reach/elongated hitbox length for small tech rolls).

Basically, Spacies off stage should be dead against Dedede. That's like a 95% thing (imo). Dedede getting a grab puts spacies off stage probably like 80% of the time.

Me against spacies is basically me holding/angling shield up and maintaining my cool (if only shield poking didnt exist) until they **** up by hitting his shield too high above the ground, in which case a reactive grab, a silly throw into some cheesy half ***** nair or bair, or fair if I think they'll jump and then lelelelelelelelelelleel.

Yea, I am starting to understand this more. Thanks. I will be sure to remember all of this. D3 is such an interesting character. Haha.

 

[Shaya]

My last tournament set against spacies had post match statistics of something like

Dedede:
Damage Dealt: 130%
Damage Received: 680%

Who won the match with 2 stocks?

 

[WINK ;)]

My last tournament set against spacies had post match statistics of something like

Dedede:
Damage Dealt: 130%
Damage Received: 680%

Who won the match with 2 stocks?

Hahaha, Dedede?

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Hey guys.

I'm wondering, what is the generally agreed upon best version of DDD? Did he have anything notable in previous versions (i.e. like Charizard's 2.5 infinite glide) that has since been taken out? I'm making a custom version of P:M with the best versions of all characters in it. Thanks again!

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

[What is the best build of Dedede?]

I first picked him up in 2.6, so I'm ignorant of his previous versions. I know in 2.6 he had a forward smash meteor/spike (I forget) that was very very hard for a lot of characters to avoid, as well as some armor on his up B. Both were removed in 3.0

Dedede seems to have had a pretty conservative life in Project M, so that may be the closest thing to an imbalanced release.

 

[Shaya]

I feel like the recovery was twinged an extra time after the super armor removal, just feels a tad bit slower/harder to cheezy sweet spot with it these days.

 

[Ripple]

I'm becoming very inconsistent at this game. :/

 

[Berrychan21]

I was watching some Heysuess videos and often saw him jump>fair>jump again. It seems like it would be an easy thing to do, but when I try it, the lag from the fair (or any arieal for that matter) lasts until I hit the ground. I can't seem to jump after the aerial. Am I inputing the jump too early/late? I feel like I'm missing something really simple.