Q&A 'Guin Saga (DDD General/Q&A thread)

[Shaya]

What purpose does having a waddle dee behind you have? So you can roll backwards? Because if you want to wavedash backwards to throw it then there isn't much difference between it just being in front of you and lightly WDing backwards close enough to it.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

What purpose does having a waddle dee behind you have? So you can roll backwards? Because if you want to wavedash backwards to throw it then there isn't much difference between it just being in front of you and lightly WDing backwards close enough to it.

Apologies for my previous post. The backwards statement was merely an example of how it would work, though I don't necessarily want it to work in the same way. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Going to fix my previous post after sending this one.

What I was trying to get at is that it is rather inconvenient for King DeDeDe's Waddledashing technique to be hindered by the fact that he throws the Waddle Dees too far away to be airdodged into immediately, and having a way for DeDeDe to spawn a Waddle Dee directly within his proximity would be extremely convenient. Normally for waddledashing, you either have to have jumped forward while throwing a Waddle Dee to have it right in front of you...or to dash/move towards it after throwing it. If DeDeDe could have a way to spawn a Waddle Dee right in front of him, without having to move forward, it would save precious time and spacing whenever a DeDeDe player wishes to perform waddledashes. Giving this ability to DeDeDe would be quite beneficial, at least in my opinion anyways. And it could be performed by holding the shield button when using side special.

Does that sound a bit better?

 

[Shaya]

Faster options for waddle dashing would be nice, true. But it's actually quite a powerful technique when you are free to set it up, so making it significantly easier to do so is maybe too much. I feel it has less to do with the location the waddle travels to but how laggy the move is for D3 to use (start up and the cooldown). But I can see what motion you mean, and it would actually be pretty swell if it was a feint toss (as he rears his hand behind his head, he drops it flat) by holding the shield.

 

[.fube]

Has anyone found any really good uses for d-tilt? I use it occasionally to mixup jab strings and for shield pressure, but I feel like f-tilt generally covers more options.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Faster options for waddle dashing would be nice, true. But it's actually quite a powerful technique when you are free to set it up, so making it significantly easier to do so is maybe too much. I feel it has less to do with the location the waddle travels to but how laggy the move is for D3 to use (start up and the cooldown). But I can see what motion you mean, and it would actually be pretty swell if it was a feint toss (as he rears his hand behind his head, he drops it flat) by holding the shield.

The same could be said about Diddy's bananas. Though Diddy's bananas are easier to control, far easier to consistently pull off, harder to knock away than DeDeDe's Waddle Dees, and usually yields more benefits than waddledashing. Considering that King DeDeDe is currently in "bottom tier", I would say having one really strong option wouldn't be too bad. Then again, since I don't have the ability to test my own idea out, I can really say this with absolute certainty. Removing some startup/cooldown frames from the move is probably the better idea though, so I agree with you.

Having a feint toss is actually a pretty clever idea. I like the sound of that. Would be a very nice mixup considering that DeDeDe has some of the best pokes in the game to punish approaching players who misread a Waddle Toss. Also, thank you for replying to my post. I appreciate it.

Has anyone found any really good uses for d-tilt? I use it occasionally to mixup jab strings and for shield pressure, but I feel like f-tilt generally covers more options.

Down Tilt is a really fast tilt which is useful when the opponent is trying to get the jump on you. It gives you breathing room, so it is useful for spacing F-Tilts or Waddle Tosses afterwards. It is less punishable than F-Tilt, and even if you do get punished, you are already crouch canceling the opponent's attack...which could potentially open them up for a grab/shieldgrab, or other tactics/moves.

 

[Ripple]

I only find D-tilt useful as the best option out of crouch cancel.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Are windboxes techable? I've had some luck Inhaling as a stage spike. If you stand about a body's length away and inhale as they're coming in low, some characters slam against the side before they sweetspot. Seen it on Marth, Roy, Luigi, and Mario.

 

[g-regulate]

throwing waddles in the air has very little lag, makes it really easy to throw waddles. ill often just fullhop downward throw, and with some forward momentum you can immediately hit R and throw the waddle again

 

[9bit]

Just had this idea: what if you could throw a Waddle so that it faces toward you when it lands, and therefore walks toward you? That could open up some cool stuff.

I imagine you'd do this just by holding the opposite direction while in the throwing animation. Could get weird with the angles though, might be hard on the brain. It could also be performed by using A+B instead of just B, like Lucario can do.

 

[shadow1moon]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/1u57q8/database_project_m_30_database/

Dash grab range: 16.623
Standing grab range: 17.623

 

[9bit]

Is that trying to say that Dedede has a longer grab range when he's standing?? So dash grab is... useless? Or does it not count like, a forward boost he gets from the dash itself...?

I'd always operated under the principle that the tradeoff was: standing grab has shorter range but less endlag, dash grab has longer range but more endlag. My whole world is a lie.

 

[Ripple]

I use dash grab because it has a higher grab box, rather than because it reaches farther

 

[Ripple]

tournament tomorrow. wish me luck

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

How was the tourney? Also I though that the consensus was 95% of the time use a JC grab because of the increased distance and that dash grab is essentially useless especially with the stupid rolling miss animation.

 

[Ripple]

got 3rd place of 65.

lost to 2nd place twice. ZSS man

 

[victra♥]

Doesnt dashgrab put you in a bad spot since you tumble? Wouldn't it be a better idea to just JC grabs?

 

[Werbenjagermanjensen]

Somewhat off-topic, but is it just me, or was DDD the one character that was supposed to not work, but somehow works? Fly Amanita got me out of the notion that he was beyond low-tier.

 

[Shaya]

It's because Dedede throws people off stage and they die.

 

[victra♥]

Dedede is honestly one of the best characters in the game. He's slept on so hard because he's kit is relatively unchanged from brawl so most people don't bother playing him or trying him out (thus the dead dedede boards), but he works so well in the new setting.

Dude has an amazing grab game, one of the fastest fast falls (right under the spacies + falcon), huge mobility from waddle dashes, incredible defensive play (dedede the moving fortress), nice recovery and heavy so you don't die till high percents, and hands down the best edge guarding in the game.

After Wario got nerfed (pmbr pls buff recovery), out of salt i played Dedede for a tournament as a troll pick (since at the time I was also under the impression that he was awful/lowtier). Boy was I wrong (I won the tournament and the next 3~ pm tournaments in my region (WC Canada))

 

[Plum]

While I would disagree that he's one of the best, I will agree that he's heavily slept on.
He's basically carried on his own edgeguarding, and everything else is just janktown that sort of works when it looks like it shouldn't just well enough to enable his edgeguarding.

 

[victra♥]

Dedede has a lot of match ups that are essentially guaranteed wins unless your opponent significantly outplays you.

Dedede isn't just about his broken edgeguard game either, Dedede's ftilt, wall of pain with fair/bair, and OoS options pretty much all independently destroy the majority of the cast each. He gets so much from capitalizing on his opponents mistakes its disgusting.

 

[Ripple]

I'm going to question your interpretation of "a lot".

I can see guaranteed wins on characters like roy, ganon, falcon, marth, mario, and bowser but that's it really

 

[Shaya]

"You don't have a projectile?" 100-0 Dedede's favour.

 

[Infil]

I hate trying to do up B and down-canceling it, only to turn around and fall past the ledge to my death. Especially if you're trying to overshoot the edge and come back to it as a mixup. Why is this even in the game?

 

[Plum]

So you can still recover if you are knocked underneath the stage?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Easy way to prevent that from happening:

1) Up-B whatever direction you want.
2) Start holding the direction you want to face when you cancel it.
3) Rotate to straight down.

 

[victra♥]

lmaoooooooooo thanks for the shoutout fly

http://youtu.be/dx5quFWLD2Y?t=1h20m42s

BTW DEDEDE IS ONE OF THE BEST CHARS IN PM. BELIEEVEEEEEEEE.

Also, I'm from Alberta not British Columbia, but you're close =) <3

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Whoops. I have a bad habit of equating "WC Canada" with BC.

 

[Kaysick]

So I happened to land on DDD during a FFA Random match and I was really liking his moves and the way he plays. If I decide on picking up this character, which I may, what should I start working on first? I haven't played him much since Brawl and I know about the Waddle dashes but I don't know how to execute it.

 

[Shaya]

Air dodging (didn't even know this applied in brawl too until it happened in pm) will make dedede throw a waddle he goes into. As it's melee air dodge, it's a wave dash with a waddle dee.

He's pretty similar to Brawl, which is what I probably like most about him (I find playing him in PM actually makes my brawl version better because of moves like his fair and nair being strictly better in PM, and the same situations to use those moves actually occur in brawl too).

 

[Ripple]

yo chumps, I just got 7th at the second largest PM tournament to date. get at me

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Honestly, I predicted that you would have done better. Good stuff though! Can you give a recap of the tournament, things such as individual match ups and the overall experience please. I'd love to hear!

 

[victra♥]

dedede da bess

 

[shadow1moon]

So... I don't Know what it is. But Recently I realized I cannot wave dash with DDD. Like I can wave land. But I can't really Wave dash out of shield or just out in the open.
Does anyone else have this problem at all? Or am I just sitting at a mental block by myself?
I can wave dash perfectly fine with pretty much anyone else. Just not so well with DDD.

Also, correct me if I am wrong. His Jet Hammer is B-Reversible right?

 

[victra♥]

i found in general that wavedashing oos feels a bit weirder in pm than in melee

 

[Ripple]

that's because you have to let go of your shield button first in order to WD OOS. you can't jump and use the other shoulder button because the shoulder button read as 1 button in brawl

 

[OnFullTilt]

So maybe I'm wrong but there are a few interesting things that I don't think any Dedede players try. I'm quite new to the game so I wouldn't be surprised if there is a reason that people don't use these techniques, but I'll mention them anyways. First, the waddle toss can actually be b reversed. I can imagine that it might be possible to b reverse waddle throw at a downward angle into a grab. Also after a nair on certain airborne characters I imagine that it would be extremely easy to footstool them (especially with the x button set to footstool) and I can't see that being entirely useless. Finally I see Dedede players do this but I'm not sure everyone knows about it: As far as I can tell if you jump in one direction with Dedede but waddle toss in the opposite direction, the waddle seems to go significantly faster and farther. This could even be used for edgeguarding far away opponents I think.

Oh, and one more thing: Dedede can control his horizontal position a little bit while doing his up b before the height gain- even in the opposite direction of his final motion. Assuming he's off the stage and the stage is to the right, he could up b while drifting left to avoid an attack, and then move towards the right with the 2nd part of the up b to grab the edge.

 

[Omni]

I have a few questions:

1.) So does DDD's double jab have larger shieldstun than most jabs? I feel like I land double jab grab very often on both shield and hit. Could be wrong, but curious if they have any special properties?

2.) N-air on shield (meaty) to up-tilt seems to be a shieldgrab destroyer? Yes? No? Also, I wish I could test this permanently, but can DDD meaty n-air on someone's shield and then dash behind them before a shieldgrab comes out similar to Marth?

3.) Can you combo into grab with DDD's d-air (on hit) without using the last hitbox pop up?

4.) After a waddle toss, sometimes when I try to jab I do another waddle toss instead. What's occurring here?

 

[Ripple]

I have a few questions:

1.) So does DDD's double jab have larger shieldstun than most jabs? I feel like I land double jab grab very often on both shield and hit. Could be wrong, but curious if they have any special properties?

2.) N-air on shield (meaty) to up-tilt seems to be a shieldgrab destroyer? Yes? No? Also, I wish I could test this permanently, but can DDD meaty n-air on someone's shield and then dash behind them before a shieldgrab comes out similar to Marth?

3.) Can you combo into grab with DDD's d-air (on hit) without using the last hitbox pop up?

4.) After a waddle toss, sometimes when I try to jab I do another waddle toss instead. What's occurring here?

1. Yes it does, the more damage that attacks do, the more shield stun there is. DDD's jab does around 8-9% which is about 3-4% more than typical.

2. Nair is never safe on shield. don't nair on shield.

3. yes

4. this is something left in from brawl. the game just thinks youre trying to throw it

 

[Plum]

If you press A while near a waddle you will just throw it regardless. I remember an old BR build that had that disabled but it also ended up removing DDD's ability to pick up items period.