Feels like dash grab has more range... could be wrong though.
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Q&A 'Guin Saga (DDD General/Q&A thread)
- Thread starter Smooth Criminal
- Start date
0RLY
A great conversation filler at bars and parties
I think it would be cool if D3 just used his up-b landing animation when starting up-b from the ground. The part where he just shoots out stars.
Airrider
Smash Apprentice
I thought of that too. They would have to reduce the endlag though (and it would have to come pretty fast). His normal up-B really deserves less endlag.
Did you guys see JCaesar's stream? It looked like some buffs were given to DeDeDe.
The Up-B seemed faster overall, especially on startup. He seemed to waddle glide toss faster, and the Fair seemed improved. Seemed.
SPECULATE
The Up-B seemed faster overall, especially on startup. He seemed to waddle glide toss faster, and the Fair seemed improved. Seemed.
SPECULATE
GMaster171
Smash Ace
He... He can act faster?... out of... of d-throw?
oh... oh my. This will be fun.
oh... oh my. This will be fun.
MysteryRevengerson
IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Loved DDD in Brawl, was hoping to enjoy him some in M, hopefully he won't feel as clunky...
I tried him in M and it's clunky.
I tried him in M and it's clunky.
Dthrow not being useless is a start.
I would kill for a good jump squat though
I would kill for a good jump squat though
WIDL
We Are Born
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTdPs-4hbfk
This is really the only reason I like playing Dedede. And yes, I know it's not new, and I know I'm late. I just like it.
This is really the only reason I like playing Dedede. And yes, I know it's not new, and I know I'm late. I just like it.
KOkingpin
Smash Champion
If you think he is clunky in PM you are playing him wrong.
roymaster803
Smash Apprentice
I like DDD this patch. He feels a lot better than 2.5.
minion throw now has 5 angles instead of 3 making it easier to hit people off stage.
D-throw You can now D-tilt after it successfully :D. Basically like you guys already said, he can act out of it sooner now.
D-tilt seems like it's more powerful this patch and maybe even has a better angle.
Super jump now has it's rising hitbox back thank GOD. It doesn't do much but it gets them out of DDD's way. So far that's all I've noticed about him.
Pretty nice changes. I definitely like the King more this patch and 2.5
minion throw now has 5 angles instead of 3 making it easier to hit people off stage.
D-throw You can now D-tilt after it successfully :D. Basically like you guys already said, he can act out of it sooner now.
D-tilt seems like it's more powerful this patch and maybe even has a better angle.
Super jump now has it's rising hitbox back thank GOD. It doesn't do much but it gets them out of DDD's way. So far that's all I've noticed about him.
Pretty nice changes. I definitely like the King more this patch and 2.5
Mera Mera
Smash Journeyman
Hey, Fly Amanita, do you have any advice on using waddles? I've noticed you don't waddledash often in the few matches I've seen of you, but that might have been match up related (mostly bowser) or because it was improved in 2.6... I didn't pick up D3 until a few days ago but the waddledashes have pretty much convinced me that he'll be my main. Just hoping to hear from the best D3 player that it's used for more than recovery.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I actually do waddle dash a little more now. I didn't in the past since it's frequently not hard for the opponent to just throw out a hitbox and intercept DDD out of it, but it definitely has its merits as a means of quickly closing space. It's nice against characters that can set up walls that are difficult to get around or are significantly more mobile on the ground than DDD is (i.e. lots of them). For example, you can either throw a waddle angled down right at your feet or you can throw it into an incoming projectile, and then just stay near the waddle, and, when you feel the time is right, waddle dash in. As with almost anything, you can't afford to be stupid about it (for example, don't just always immediately waddle dash at the opponent all the time unless you're confident that the opponent can't/won't deal with that), but it's definitely nice to be able to actually move quickly horizontally here and there.
leelue
Smash Lord
If that last point is true (I have no idea) it's one of the things that irks me about project m
many grounded projectiles just being flat-out terrible compared to the aerial ones. I guess I don't have to go into jumpsquat, but...
many grounded projectiles just being flat-out terrible compared to the aerial ones. I guess I don't have to go into jumpsquat, but...
Sixth-Sense
Smash Ace
what is waddle dash and how do i use it? is it that thing i've seen where DDD suddenly moves really fast across the stage or from the air grabing and throwing the minions?
Yes that's what it looks like. Here is how to do it.
AncientPancakes
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2012
- Messages
- 52
how are you DDD players using swallow and jet hammer? I don't use them much and i'm sure there are good ways to use them that i'm not aware of.
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,633
I find jet hammer to be useless, unless you corner someone with a d-throw and you don't think they will tech, and then predict a roll.
swallow is amazing and should be used all the time from falling. mix up bair, swallow, and empty fall grab and you'll be insanely good
swallow is amazing and should be used all the time from falling. mix up bair, swallow, and empty fall grab and you'll be insanely good
Phiddlesticks
Smash Lord
i like b reversing jet hammer as a mixup, its a pretty cool way to dodge something and punish in 1 moves but mainly it looks hilarious
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I don't use swallow at all since I generally dislike the risk-reward on it, but it definitely has its uses and I need to start incorporating it here and there. For example, you can use it to suck up people standing on short platforms by short hopping and inhaling below them. If you think the opponent is going to try to hug the edge when recovering and you're able to afford a suicide kill, you can jump off past them and then B-reverse swallow (courtesy of Dakpo). I mostly see people use it a lot when landing, but I prefer other landing options by a significant margin, generally.
Jet hammer is good when uncharged since it comes out very quickly and reaches far, although it has a lot of endlag, so expect to be punished if you throw it out at the wrong time. It can also be used as a quicker substitute to fair sometimes. Charged jet hammer is a good response to linear recoveries. Other than that, dthrow can combo into uncharged jet hammer on a lot of characters if the opponent DIs in (dtilt, ftilt, and dash grab are frequently other options here as well) and it has some other niche uses.
Jet hammer is good when uncharged since it comes out very quickly and reaches far, although it has a lot of endlag, so expect to be punished if you throw it out at the wrong time. It can also be used as a quicker substitute to fair sometimes. Charged jet hammer is a good response to linear recoveries. Other than that, dthrow can combo into uncharged jet hammer on a lot of characters if the opponent DIs in (dtilt, ftilt, and dash grab are frequently other options here as well) and it has some other niche uses.
AncientPancakes
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2012
- Messages
- 52
I like these ideas, I will definitely try them out. One question I also have is, what kind of follow ups do you guys do after swallow? I usually just try to spit them out towards the edge and start trying to land a fair, but it seems pretty easy to get out of if they jump since it pops the opponent up.
9Kplus1
Smash Master
If you spit them near or off of the stage, then you're already in a pretty advantageous position. Just wait for them to do something and act accordingly. Also, personally, I tend to treat Swallow like Koopa Klaw; primarily using it to catch a player predicting a grab / Fair / Nair / etc offguard and as a means of plucking characters off of platforms.
Pseudomaniac
Smash Journeyman
Don't know how well this will work against human players, but I got an AI Snake from 0-80% and AI Ike from 0-50% by chaining UThrows and SHFFL'd Nairs and then ending with Nair juggle -> Fair\Bair (depending on DI). Thoughts? I'd like to see if this works against human players that actually DI. A DDD chaingrab would greatly improve his metagame.
If Swallow were sped up by like 50% I think it could really be a useful tool. Like if it came out faster and you could turn faster while you've got someone inside you. Maybe also walk faster but that might be too much. It would also be nice if you could push down and do... something. I'm not sure what but it would be good to have some kind of DI mixup from it.
Been a while since you asked, but yes it's like Stitch Face.
Swallow is his like, anti-anti-air. It's faster than it's brawl iteration. It is missing super armor but I think it's pretty good already.
Malart
Smash Apprentice
K, not a DDD player, but my friend is, and I have a few questions about d-throw in this new patch. One, is it possible to SDI away? Because DI away seems to have little to no effect at any percent, plus it has no noticeable knockback growth. Two, if SDI away is not possible, I believe DDD has an incredibly hard to time infinite chain throw with d-throw if it's timed frame perfect. you can just stand still and grab again before they fly away, to infinity, at any percent. it's really iffy for me to pull it off, the timing seems as tight as Marth's DACUS. you can just stand still and grab, or you can running grab to carry them across the stage, d-throw them off the edge, and immediately fall off and f-air to put them in a really crappy position. like it even works at 999 percent (only tried that on CPU opponents, but still.) Can you guys tell me I'm crazy? if mastered this would just be TOO broken, it would be in wobbling territory. Even if you can DI out of the regrab, it feels like just the knowledge that it's possible in the first place would make opponents always want to DI away most of the time, so you might be able to trick people into crappy DI on a f-throw or u-throw.
Last question, is it supposed to be the case that he can't hold down to fall through platforms when he's puffed up from a double jump?
Last question, is it supposed to be the case that he can't hold down to fall through platforms when he's puffed up from a double jump?
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere.
OK so waddle-gliding to recover right? Well all this time I've been doing it by throwing the waddle completely horizontally during each glide and using an aerial jump for each re-throw. But if you angle the control stick at a downward diagonal you can just repeatedly use the R or L button to keep re-throwing it, no extra jumps needed.
You don't get the same horizontal distance you can get with the other method, but since you're saving your aerial jumps you can make it up that way.
You can do this without using a single aerial jump if you do the initial waddle throw just right. Do a tilt throw straight downward (you can't really, but I mean with the control stick in the full down position) then switch your control stick to diagonally down and keep pressing L or R when you are in position.
When you get where you want to be you still have all 3 aerial jumps and your up-B left.
This also means that if you have used all your aerial jumps and are knocked away from the stage during your up-B, as long as you are around ledge height or above, you can use this trick to get another chance, even if you're pretty far away. In this instance, you'd want to start your momentum back towards the stage, use the tilted-straight-down waddle throw, then do a regular waddle dash (that is, fully horizontal). You should get some really good distance and still be at a height where your up-B can make it back.
Also if you time your up-B (or just spam it) out of the final waddle glide you get a huge boost to your horizontal distance on up-B's startup.
OK so waddle-gliding to recover right? Well all this time I've been doing it by throwing the waddle completely horizontally during each glide and using an aerial jump for each re-throw. But if you angle the control stick at a downward diagonal you can just repeatedly use the R or L button to keep re-throwing it, no extra jumps needed.
You don't get the same horizontal distance you can get with the other method, but since you're saving your aerial jumps you can make it up that way.
You can do this without using a single aerial jump if you do the initial waddle throw just right. Do a tilt throw straight downward (you can't really, but I mean with the control stick in the full down position) then switch your control stick to diagonally down and keep pressing L or R when you are in position.
When you get where you want to be you still have all 3 aerial jumps and your up-B left.
This also means that if you have used all your aerial jumps and are knocked away from the stage during your up-B, as long as you are around ledge height or above, you can use this trick to get another chance, even if you're pretty far away. In this instance, you'd want to start your momentum back towards the stage, use the tilted-straight-down waddle throw, then do a regular waddle dash (that is, fully horizontal). You should get some really good distance and still be at a height where your up-B can make it back.
Also if you time your up-B (or just spam it) out of the final waddle glide you get a huge boost to your horizontal distance on up-B's startup.
MagnesD3
Smash Master
So you guys got any tips for a dedede player who's newish (1 month) to pm?
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
Well this thread is dead but I have a question. After playing against some level 9s in lieu of actual people, I noticed that shffled bair to grab to dthrow to dash attack/ftilt seems to be pretty potent. Is this an actual thing or just something that works against DI-less cpus?
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
Try it on Wifi
RabidJackal
Smash Apprentice
I found out an interesting quirk about King Dedede's Down-B Jet Hammer. It's kind of the same functionality as Bowser's Crawl, except with a fully charged jet hammer!! If you hold down as if crouch cancelling while your jet hammer is blue it basically gives you pseudo-super armor against a lot of weaker moves. It works from 0 to around 40~50%. It only works when the hammer is charged up and blue, you can be hit out of the orange while you're charging. It seems that most smash attacks and stronger moves are the only things that can knock him out of his Down-B. I haven't fully tested it against projectiles though and I'll try to get a video up of it soon.
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
this is what I do to troll people while they have respawn invincibility. Either they shield and I'm across the stage or they don't or don't hold it for long enough and it's an easy 10-30%
Church NEOH
Worst Player in NEOH
New D3 player here. I'm really confused. How do you use the Waddle Dees to get a better horizontal recovery?
The easiest way to do it is:
- Use an aerial jump to "soft" throw a waddle straight upward. One way to do this is to be holding the control stick towards the stage, then jump, then Side-B (all without moving the control stick); during the beginning of the Side-B animation move the control stick straight up.
- Use another jump to align yourself with the waddle -- you need to be close to it, basically touching it
- Air-dodge towards the stage
- Success!
- (Optional) Use your final jump and air-dodge into the waddle again
- Instead of air-dodging directly towards the stage, try air-dodging at a downward diagonal angle towards the stage. Basically, use the diagonal notch in the control stick
- If you do it this way, you can just hold that position on the control stick and repeatedly (and somewhat quickly) air-dodge and you will continue to grab and throw the waddle
- You will lose a lot of height doing this, but you will conserve your extra 2 aerial jumps
- This can be useful if you're coming in from one of the top corner blast zones
br8k
Coolkid
SUP DEAD BOARDS, I am officially interested in Dedede. I blame this song. There may have been other factors but for some reason that song reminded me of Kirby and made me want to learn how to play Dedede well. Also Dedede has a really cool theme.
Since that point, I haven't actually had any free time to play around with Dedede, much less play against other people, but I have been pondering his moveset and how to use it.
Is up-tilt disjointed much? What are Dedede's commonly perceived strengths and weaknesses? What do most Dededes do when they manage to grab somebody? Do good Dedede players use Jet Hammer much? It strikes me as a good move given how fast it is, how huge the hitbox is, and how good the angle is (unless I'm not remembering it properly). The hitbox seems huge, from my fuzzy memory of messing around with it. Like it could be use to counter shffls. These forums sorely need hitbox threads.
Is Inhale good for anything aside from suicides? It's like a Grab, but you can carry them around.. but your only "throw" doesn't really put you in an advantageous position no matter what... Can't they act really quickly out of being spit out?
I'm a Samus main in Melee. Samus is cool. Has weird traits. Long wavedash. Crappy grab. Incredibly heavy for her size. Crappy short hop, but great aerials. Fantastic recovery, especially given how heavy she is. Lots of projectiles.
Dedede has a similar blend of weird traits. Really heavy, but huge recovery (can fly). Crappy wavedash, but fantastic grab. And waddle dashing. Good short hop. Really weird slow randomized projectile. Is a huge character with a huge weapon, meaning disjointed attacks. Is a flying character with a huge weapon. Is a huge heavy flying character with a huge weapon.
And both D3 and Samus spend a lot of time poking at the enemy with their side-tilt.
I feel like Dedede should be really cool (15% damage throw whaaaat), so it's weird that his boards are so dead. Sorry 'bout the rambling, dead boards.
(If I lose interest in Dedede in about a week I'm sorry. I've been cycling through possible mains for a while but have yet to stick on one character like I have with Samus in Melee.)
Since that point, I haven't actually had any free time to play around with Dedede, much less play against other people, but I have been pondering his moveset and how to use it.
Is up-tilt disjointed much? What are Dedede's commonly perceived strengths and weaknesses? What do most Dededes do when they manage to grab somebody? Do good Dedede players use Jet Hammer much? It strikes me as a good move given how fast it is, how huge the hitbox is, and how good the angle is (unless I'm not remembering it properly). The hitbox seems huge, from my fuzzy memory of messing around with it. Like it could be use to counter shffls. These forums sorely need hitbox threads.
Is Inhale good for anything aside from suicides? It's like a Grab, but you can carry them around.. but your only "throw" doesn't really put you in an advantageous position no matter what... Can't they act really quickly out of being spit out?
I'm a Samus main in Melee. Samus is cool. Has weird traits. Long wavedash. Crappy grab. Incredibly heavy for her size. Crappy short hop, but great aerials. Fantastic recovery, especially given how heavy she is. Lots of projectiles.
Dedede has a similar blend of weird traits. Really heavy, but huge recovery (can fly). Crappy wavedash, but fantastic grab. And waddle dashing. Good short hop. Really weird slow randomized projectile. Is a huge character with a huge weapon, meaning disjointed attacks. Is a flying character with a huge weapon. Is a huge heavy flying character with a huge weapon.
And both D3 and Samus spend a lot of time poking at the enemy with their side-tilt.
I feel like Dedede should be really cool (15% damage throw whaaaat), so it's weird that his boards are so dead. Sorry 'bout the rambling, dead boards.
(If I lose interest in Dedede in about a week I'm sorry. I've been cycling through possible mains for a while but have yet to stick on one character like I have with Samus in Melee.)