Guide to Meteor Smashes in Brawl

[Kayzee]

I'll take your word for it.



Fixed the F-air.
I added taunts. It also works if they're tethered.

-
I'm going to add a section for semi-spikes, and possibly a guide to spiking.

I'm looking forward to a semi-spike section.

 

[Doval]

Fox's Reflector spikes with any part of the hit box.
Ike's d-air only spikes with the first frames, it becomes a normal hit shortly after the blade is fully extended downwards.
Kirby's d-air spikes with any part of his body.
Zero Suit Samus's Flip Jump spikes with any part of her body, not the toe. However, like Ike's, it only spikes during the first active frames, and only against airborne opponents. Likewise, her d-air only spikes airborne opponents; grounded opponents get knocked sideways rather than bouncing off of the ground as you'd expect.
Ness's d-air also spikes only during the first active frames, though the ratio of non-spike frames to spike frames is very low.
Falco's spikes with any part of the attack, bur only during the first active frames.

What the heck's a semi-spike?

 

[Kayzee]

What the heck's a semi-spike?

A semi-spike is an attack with very low horizontal knockback.

 

[Doval]

Ah, ok. Thanks.

 

[Tetsuro]

The third hit of Marth's down dancing blade spikes if done over the edge. That is to say, if you do his >B and make sure the third hit is a down B it will spike if hit in the right place. I am not sure if the tip must hit or not, but there is definitely a sweet spot.

This can also be very useful to to keep enemies in place at high percent, as it will slam them into the ground.

Sorry if this has already been posted, but I didn't see it under Marth's spikes.

 

[Kio Iranez]

Is the knockback of a spike affected by attack depreciation?

 

[Doval]

Is the knockback of a spike affected by attack depreciation?

Yes, though it probably won't make a big difference as to whether the opponent gets to survive it in the first place unless you spammed the hell out of it beforehand and didn't use anything else to restore its power.

 

[Ulevo]

Someone mentioned that Game & Watch's Dash Attack spikes if they're clinging to the ledge. I can't remember where I read that. I just tried it myself, and I couldn't get it to work properly, but perhaps someone else has had better luck with this?

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm just going to mention that Flip Jump doesn't just spike at the toe. It's anywhere on the leg for the first hitbox, which is there for no more than two frames, I imagine.

 

[Neodaft_boy]

I don't recall seeing Olimar's spike. It's his yellow Pikmin, I think you may have to hit a specific spot with him though because it occasionally works for me.

It's a good spike, just getting the Pikmin in the right order is the tough part.

Lol, ...maybe if I read more I'd find it was listed as a semi-spike

 

[thepinkpoo]

do semi spikes knock you down as fast as normal spikes?

 

[11j]

wow... lots of spikes

 

[Tenki]

I just noticed your definition for Semi-spike

The beginning of Sonic's D-air is a Semi-Spike then.
(sends people in a horizontal trajectory?)
like this? (S for Sonic)

(S)······--------..(U)

 

[thepinkpoo]

I just noticed your definition for Semi-spike

The beginning of Sonic's D-air is a Semi-Spike then.
(sends people in a horizontal trajectory?)
like this? (S for Sonic)

(S)······--------..(U)

i dn't understand your diagram

 

[Kayzee]

There are a few attacks that I think are semi spikes. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Meta Knight's Dair
Zelda's Dsmash
Sheik's Final Smash

 

[Doval]

Fox's Reflector is Down B, not Over B.

Also, Meteor Canceling was NOT removed from Brawl (see this tread) so we're going to have to start distinguishing between Meteor Smashes and Spikes again. I can confirm that Samus's d-air, Marth's d-air, Ike's d-air, and Luigi's Down Taunt are all Meteor Smashes.

 

[kamekasu]

Fox's Reflector is Down B, not Over B.

Also, Meteor Canceling was NOT removed from Brawl (see this tread) so we're going to have to start distinguishing between Meteor Smashes and Spikes again. I can confirm that Samus's d-air, Marth's d-air, Ike's d-air, and Luigi's Down Taunt are all Meteor Smashes.

I'll fix that.

I read your thread. I'll have to verify it personally before I change anything in this thread. If it's true, then all spikes are most likely meteors. My feeling is that spikes in Melee were simply the result of developer oversight, considering the odd hitboxes for C. Falcon and Roy. If they intended to keep meteor canceling, they would have made sure you could cancel every move.

 

[Doval]

I read your thread. I'll have to verify it personally before I change anything in this thread.

Understandable.

If they intended to keep meteor canceling, they would have made sure you could cancel every move.

I doubt that. It's kind of hard not to notice that Falco and Marth's d-airs are utter **** (in Melee, that is.) Also, what odd hitbox for C.Falcon?

 

[kamekasu]

I doubt that. It's kind of hard not to notice that Falco and Marth's d-airs are utter **** (in Melee, that is.) Also, what odd hitbox for C.Falcon?

I say that because Marth's spike was removed in the PAL version, and C. Falcon only spikes at the nipple, while it's just a meteor everywhere else on his model. I don't know what's going on with Falco.

 

[Yuna]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166325
Hah! Meteor Canceling is still in!

Told ya'!

 

[orintemple]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166325
Hah! Meteor Canceling is still in!

Told ya'!

Oh nice, this is great. Although it is strange now the way it works. It's gonna take some getting used to.

 

[Browny]

Sonics sping can be considered a spike i guess since it knocks enemies downwards, although not with much force, but its enough to gimp ike/ganons/marios and others recovery completely

his d-air is also a semi spike, you have to sweet spot it pretty **** well, its much harder than even zeldas, but it does send enemies with a lot of horizontal knockback and slight downwards knockback.

 

[Doval]

I say that because Marth's spike was removed in the PAL version, and C. Falcon only spikes at the nipple, while it's just a meteor everywhere else on his model. I don't know what's going on with Falco.

Ah, I see. Anyways, confirmed that Falco, Facon, Toon Link, Kirby, Marth, Zero Suit Samus and Ganon's d-airs, as well as ZS Samus's Up-B are all meteors (though Zero Suit Samus's d-air is too weak to be of any practical use considering that she can't do it off the edge without dying unless she foot stool jumps someone.) Other than Luigi's Down Taunt, which is on a league of its own, Ganon's is the most powerful meteor I've seen aside from Ike's. Haven't found any true spikes yet.

 

[Niko_K]

I wouldn't consider peach's downsmash a semi spike. It only spikes because you bounce off the stage and it is techable.

 

[Browny]

Other than Luigi's Down Taunt, which is on a league of its own, Ganon's is the most powerful meteor I've seen aside from Ike's. Haven't found any true spikes yet.

just fyi, allisbrawl did a very comprehensive analysis on spike strengths. on a relative scale, Ness' d-air spike rated a 9, ganons d-air rated 5 while ike was the thrid strongest with a 3, all other characters spikes were 1-3

if anyone is in a league of thier own, its Ness :O

 

[Doval]

Those numbers are insanely arbitrary, because Ness's d-air is NOT stronger than Ike's OR Ganondorf's. Ganondorf is the one that seems to be in a league of his own, so far.

 

[kamekasu]

just fyi, allisbrawl did a very comprehensive analysis on spike strengths. on a relative scale, Ness' d-air spike rated a 9, ganons d-air rated 5 while ike was the thrid strongest with a 3, all other characters spikes were 1-3

if anyone is in a league of thier own, its Ness :O

You fundamentally misunderstood the chart. Those number were meant to represent how many blocks in stage builder mode a character falls until hitstun wears off, at low percents (i.e. 7-11%). Not to mention that data is irrelevant if meteor canceling is in.

NikoK: I'll remove Peach's DSmash.

Yuna: I haven't tried Meteor Canceling with Doval's method, and I haven't seen a single video nor testimony of it actually working. I'll do some testing of this 'new' meteor cancel and update the guide with whatever I find.

 

[Depster]

yoshi's dsmash is a semi spike near the end of a stage

 

[Big Burn]

good list....yeah i main pit... and i don't understand when that dair spikes

 

[Browny]

You fundamentally misunderstood the chart. Those number were meant to represent how many blocks in stage builder mode a character falls until hitstun wears off, at low percents (i.e. 7-11%). Not to mention that data is irrelevant if meteor canceling is in.

NikoK: I'll remove Peach's DSmash.

Yuna: I haven't tried Meteor Canceling with Doval's method, and I haven't seen a single video nor testimony of it actually working. I'll do some testing of this 'new' meteor cancel and update the guide with whatever I find.

lol i knew that. but since metoer cancelling isnt exactly confirmed, what difference does it make? id ness d-air sends enemies down 9 stage builder blocks, who can honestly survive that? i doubt even snakes cypher goes that high. whats the point of ganons d-air doing 22% if majority of characters can recover from it?

 

[Umpadumpalump]

is it me or does Ike's dtilt spike always kill you?

 

[Doval]

lol i knew that. but since metoer cancelling isnt exactly confirmed, what difference does it make? id ness d-air sends enemies down 9 stage builder blocks, who can honestly survive that? i doubt even snakes cypher goes that high. whats the point of ganons d-air doing 22% if majority of characters can recover from it?

Again, their testing must be flawed because Ganon's d-air is most definitely stronger than Ness's, by a lot. Try it yourself (and try Meteor Canceling too...it's not hard or time-consuming.)

 

[d0nut eater7]

Wario's d-air is a spike during his final smash, and activating Lucario's final smash when touching the oponent is a weak spike.

 

[hizzlum]

Someone needs to make a list of how much hitstun a spike gives from best to worst (proabably in frames). when marth dair tips, it seems to give opponent no chance of recovering, i also know that wolf's over b sweetspot is a spike with a lot of stun

 

[Doval]

I don't think listing the hit stun would be practical. Hit stun obviously increases from low %'s to higher %'s, but as your character starts going faster, it seems to decrease again. It'd be more practical to sort by distance than stun.

 

[hizzlum]

I don't think listing the hit stun would be practical. Hit stun obviously increases from low %'s to higher %'s, but as your character starts going faster, it seems to decrease again. It'd be more practical to sort by distance than stun.

If you had a control at 0% you could calculate hit stun, but i do think a distance raing would be just as good of an idea

 

[wangston]

Which ones are spikes and which ones are meteors? Because I thought meteors can be canceled and spikes can't.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

wouldn't zelda's Dsmash count as a semi-spike? I think it has the same trajectory as Sheik's fair.

 

[RazeveX]

wouldn't zelda's Dsmash count as a semi-spike? I think it has the same trajectory as Sheik's fair.

dude i was JUST about to post this. anyway, yeah it should.

 

[kamekasu]

Which ones are spikes and which ones are meteors? Because I thought meteors can be canceled and spikes can't.

I'll edit the post to account for meteors soon.

wouldn't zelda's Dsmash count as a semi-spike? I think it has the same trajectory as Sheik's fair.

Added.