Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[Dre89]

Monte gets a lot of stuff about laning wrong so I'd take what he says with a grain of salt

 

[Cheerilee]

Monte gets a lot of stuff about laning wrong so I'd take what he says with a grain of salt

I'm pretty hyped about his team tbqh.

 

[Espy Rose]

Full source on that pick Cheery.

 

[Dre89]

I think Riot needs to revamp their LP system now. It conflicts with their new philosophy of making the game more team-based.

In season 3, the LP system was fairer because the game was much more about snowballing and 1v5 carrying. But over the last two seasons they've actively tried to delay games by nerfing snowball mechanics, and making inner structures harder to kill. The dragon changes also made it less snowbally and more of a late-game investment.

In season 3 it was much easier to climb. Apart from the fact the the general standard was a lot lower (at least in low elo anyway) and you could get a higher placement in your provisionals, the snowball mechanics and lower dependency on teammates made it easier to climb if you were better than your elo. The problem is that the current LP system would suggest that if you're better than your elo, you should be able to carry any game, because you gain LP whether you win or lose, regardless of your performance. It implies that winning or losing a game is strictly tied to your performance. Thing is nowadays, the team's overall competency matters much more than an individual's ability to carry because if the whole team isn't winning early, the game virtually always gets to the point where the players who fall behind get 3-4 items and become relevant.

If they're going to try make the game more team-based, they should make an LP system that reflects that.

 

[Cheerilee]

re: NA LCS (third place gauntlet)

Spoiler

I wasn't aware that the major regions have three open slots. In NA the first slot is the winner of the summer split, second goes to the team that has the most spring + summer points, and finally the third spot goes to the team that wins in a small gauntlet setup similar to playoffs with the highest team ranked in the gauntlet requiring to only play in the finals while lesser ranked teams have to play more games respectively. (I have resigned that TSM is likely going to Worlds and I am now okay with it. All the obnoxious TSM fans appear to have converted into CLG fans so there's less blind NA fanboy-ism in general.)

re: Renegades, Chris Badawi, player poaching, Riot salaries/seed money/stipends

Spoiler

I'm also reading up some information on Chris Badawi attempting to poach players and it's pretty interesting (Badawi is co-owner of Renegades, but will be banned once the team becomes officially sanctioned reflecting his ban from having any involvement in League e-sports until 2017). According to Steve in an "interview" with Travis from Gamespot he apparently had given Badawi a week / two week tour of NA LCS featuring many players who became the "poach" material for Badawi.

There are many iterations of the story from different owners claiming that Badawi was actively poaching their star players, while Montecristo attempted to paint Badawi as a rookie owner who simply didn't know any better. Steve's interview with Gamespot clearly paints Badawi as a person who takes advantage of good will and will terminate players and swap for upgrades as soon as a Challenger team makes NA LCS. Although a lot of younger kids probably consider this to be a "**** move" and the reason why players like Bjergsen state in public riot interviews (MSI interview with Bjergsen) that the reason he chose a team like TSM was because the team in general appears to have a strong attachment to its players it was raised on SI that his contract lasts until 2018 and Riot lists his current contract as expiring on November 11, 2018.

First idea that comes to mind is whether League of Legends is still going to still be a huge e-sport identity three years from now. Users like CaliTrollz and Keith are going to school to get their bachelor's degrees. xPeke claimed he's retiring after Worlds with Dyrus and Lemmonnation stating "same" in the reddit thread. Monte raised a contradictory idea that the fact that the current spike in not only e-sports in general but in particular League of Legends and the fact that raising Challenger teams is a very lucrative market i.e. Steve selling Curse/Liquid Academy (Gravity) after the Riot ruling preventing NA LCS owners from having two teams in the Championship League however allowing sister teams to exist in the Challenger series. Therefore introducing the idea that a high performing player like Bjergsen is doing himself a disservice by choosing to enter into a long term contract that would not respect his player value potentially making him one of the most undervalued League of Legends professional players as time passes.

There's just tons of other bits of interesting information click bait information that I've been sifting through like the minimum wage that Riot stipulates for players, championship money, and twitch revenue income that is very interesting. Players who are being paid only the minimum wage are definitely undervalued, however making around $12 an hour without factoring in streaming income or supplemental income doesn't seem that bad considering minimum wage hasn't been raised to $15 in all areas yet (not that I live in either Seattle or Los Angeles) and is currently averaged out considering minimum wage in other areas like New York is $8.75. To elaborate a bit more on the concept of "minimum wage" this is all Riot seed money into teams in order to promote growth of the LCS. Considering the fact that there are 10 LCS teams and 6 Challenger teams and all teams at a minimum require five active players and a coach the amount of seed money Riot spends into promoting NA LCS is at the bare minimum $2.4 million. In terms of rankings, Riot states that any active member of the NA LCS had to have reached a peak ranking of Diamond 3. Amusing stuff.

 

[Cheerilee]

@ Dre89 Play Rengar.

 

[Dre89]

@ Dre89 Play Rengar.

I tried playing whiskers when I was fooling around at the end of last season. I sucked at him, found him awkward. Also I find it hard to carry with assassins who can only kill one target in a fight.

 

[Sinister Slush]

That one target being the AD carry around the 25 minute mark is really important though.
Rengar top > jungle rengar.

This was back in like end of S3 or start of S4 I think anyways around when Ryan choi was becoming popular and people realized "Oh, rengar can still oneshot people, we just needed to believe in the rain mang and his hot dblade builds"

 

[Cheerilee]

Oopsoops
if you were so good
Oopsoops
you would have 80% win rate
Oopsoops
and gett 100% hammers right
Oopsoops
so ****en stop sooking
me…
my win rate is 56%
Oopsoops
yeah
Oopsoops
i know
Oopsoops
so if your so good
Oopsoops
why aren't you higher?
me…
it's 4% higher than yours
me…
and i've played more games than you
Oopsoops
but i'mnot the one
Oopsoops
saying i'm good
me…
you won't listen to me
Oopsoops
look you're toxic

Toxicity is the glue that connects everything together in my life.

 

[Player-3]

I tried playing whiskers when I was fooling around at the end of last season. I sucked at him, found him awkward. Also I find it hard to carry with assassins who can only kill one target in a fight.

if ur only killing 1 target you arent fed enough

 

[Cheerilee]

@ jaswa What were your LP wins / losses like when you were duo-ing with Dre?

 

[Cheerilee]

@ jaswa I'm talking about raw LP gains and losses. Not like, what were your wins and loses like. I just want to know what the LP output is for duo'ing with someone around two, three divisions lower than you are like.

 

[Dre89]

@ jaswa I'm talking about raw LP gains and losses. Not like, what were your wins and loses like. I just want to know what the LP output is for duo'ing with someone around two, three divisions lower than you are like.

ATM he's S2 and I'm S5, and he has bad MMR at the moment so I think he normally gets 10-15 LP for a win, but loses like 20+ for a loss.

 

[jaswa]

Played a game earlier today we won and I only got +12 or +14 LP?

It's more around 20ish when my W/L is closer to even.

 

[Cheerilee]

Battle Brawlers is coming really close to making me quit League altogether. That TF / Graves icon.

 

[Espy Rose]

BB is lame as hell.

 

[Cheerilee]

BB is lame as hell.

Trickster's Glass was so much fun to use. But when I actually needed that second win and started to play seriously with melee AD champs + flesheater stacks, the game mode became frustrating when teammates would ignore pings or become mad when pinged. It's not even a "bronze" issue, but just the fact that one or two teammates literally have no intention of trying to win the game or listening to criticism despite how polite or how consistent it is from ALL members of the team:

• "Razorfins are OP with Merc 3 and Attack". Wukong: I know. They are broken. [Buys Ironback.]
  • "I noticed we have a lot of Ironbacks." Nami/Wukong: Bought them. I thought we were buying Razorfins. Nami: What are you my mom? [Dies to enemy Razorfin one minute later] **** these minions.
  • "Varus can you please not split push all the way into enemy towers when we're all at Nexus and it's 35-40 minutes into the game. [Entire enemy team ganks him]. Please?" Varus: I need to push out the wave. [Pushes out to the same exact spot again. Entire enemy team ganks him again.]

I even played on Lilith's account to just check if I was tilting and the games were so much more enjoyable based on how much more "participation" and "try harding" there was compared to whatever there is in BBB. Having played in all event modes since Doombots, this is the only one to really frustrate me. The snowball effect is ridiculous.

 

[Soft Serve]

I've been tilting super super hard about bb. Holy **** is that game mode frustrating. Not even the mew items being broken, its just actually getting matched with bronze/not 30 people because new game mode when I'm used to goldish level teams who get what the point of the games are is Killing me. Solo carrying is harder too because you can't just splitpush, the minions hurt so ****ing much if you're not life-steel based.

 

[Dre89]

I've been tilting super super hard about bb. Holy **** is that game mode frustrating. Not even the mew items being broken, its just actually getting matched with bronze/not 30 people because new game mode when I'm used to goldish level teams who get what the point of the games are is Killing me. Solo carrying is harder too because you can't just splitpush, the minions hurt so ****ing much if you're not life-steel based.

You only gold in soloque? I figured you'd be higher tbh.

Normally you can get a vague idea of what elo someone is by the way they post. Even if you disagree with a lot of what they say. You always struck me as Plat+

 

[Soft Serve]

Every season I hit gold and quit ranked because its a **** hole. I feel like I could hit plat/lower diamond if I really went at it, but I'd rather dump that time/effort into pm/melee and real life things, because I get no real enjoyment from league. its just a good time sink when I've got nothing to do and really addicting.

figured out what to do though, just went back to my old lame solo q climbing tactics, jungle xin and camp a lane. Sated xin+hydra is ********

edit: The above assumes that if you camp mid because easy ganks, both top and bottom wont feed >.> ****ing top lane mords going ignite+long sword start vs a darius, complaining about getting all inned lvl 2

 

[john!]

proxy mord top is the future

 

[Dre89]

Every season I hit gold and quit ranked because its a **** hole. I feel like I could hit plat/lower diamond if I really went at it, but I'd rather dump that time/effort into pm/melee and real life things, because I get no real enjoyment from league. its just a good time sink when I've got nothing to do and really addicting.

figured out what to do though, just went back to my old lame solo q climbing tactics, jungle xin and camp a lane. Sated xin+hydra is ********

edit: The above assumes that if you camp mid because easy ganks, both top and bottom wont feed >.> ****ing top lane mords going ignite+long sword start vs a darius, complaining about getting all inned lvl 2

I feel like a lot of people could play at a higher elo than they're at. Back when I was in low gold elo my winrate was higher than it is now in low silver. If you're that type of player who wins lane 80% of the time or more, and you generally do well when your team doesn't feed, then you can definitely play at a higher elo.

I'm not the best shot caller, I've always relied on my laning mechanics (for top lane) and my teamfighting ability. That's why I think I seem to be more successful the higher the elo I'm at, and why I'm often impactful on my best champs like Rumble against high level 5s teams. Because in those environments the shot calling burden is taken off me. You're probably in a similar boat to me.

 

[teluoborg]

proxy mord top is the future

Nuh uh, support Morde is the future, rito said so http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/08/84-pbe-update.html#jugg3
Updated recommended items are : relic shield start, core is trinity gage and rylai.

The new E effect is cool tho.

 

[Soft Serve]

I think they are recomending relic shield start because they are re-making him as an ADC substitute botlane

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/gameplay-update-juggernauts

kinda rediculous changes, for everyone but skarner. why would I play skarner and go a bit faster in certain spots when I could play darius and auto max stack someone, or garen and do true dmg ult to someone+%hp shread, or morde and get a zombambo dragon

 

[Z'zgashi]

why would I play skarner and go a bit faster in certain spots when I could play darius and auto max stack someone, or garen and do true dmg ult to someone+%hp shread, or morde and get a zombambo dragon

Cuz youre jungling

But really though yeah Skarners changes, while interesting, seem lackluster, especially that 15 ms nerf, just why

 

[Cheerilee]

Cuz youre jungling But really though yeah Skarners changes, while interesting, seem lackluster, especially that 15 ms nerf, just why

Cursed Dragon is so ridiculous that it might warrant a Jungle Morde.

 

[teluoborg]

I think they are recomending relic shield start because they are re-making him as an ADC substitute botlane

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/gameplay-update-juggernauts

kinda rediculous changes, for everyone but skarner. why would I play skarner and go a bit faster in certain spots when I could play darius and auto max stack someone, or garen and do true dmg ult to someone+%hp shread, or morde and get a zombambo dragon

Yeah I've seen that, but why would you want to replace your adc with a character that has no range, no mobility, no cc and whose only defense mechanic relies on dealing damage.

 

[Dre89]

Why would you turn a ****en massive metal death lord into a support...

 

[Cheerilee]

I don't know how long the dragon lasts. But if I'm not mistaken you can essentially kill the dragon and secure a tower by using it to draw all the tower aggro with its 2k health as long as you're not stupid enough to step into the tower aggro zone due to how "pet" tower target alias-ing works.

Also I'm playing Tristana. She is the new love of my life (until I can buy Kallista).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

New Garen is wow with his E. It does a lot of ticks now.

 

[Cheerilee]

These reworks are horrible.

 

[Player-3]

riot pretty awful company nowadays

 

[Dre89]

I just still can't get over the fact that Zed still sees lots of pro play. I play him because I like him but I legit think he's one of the worst champs in the game atm lol

 

[Ussi]

Why would you turn a ****en massive metal death lord into a support...

more male supports

also more supports for me to play :D

I still think they are trying to make melee carry in a duo lane a thing though.

 

[Cheerilee]

New Garen is wow with his E. It does a lot of ticks now.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.co...e/sqMalcLL-the-garen-rework-is-an-abomination

The most informative post I saw with respect to the Garen rework even taking into consideration the fact that you might not agree with his opinion. Even more useful than any of the Riot related material.

riot pretty awful company nowadays

They turned Fiora into an AD bruiser who has to hit "vital" points that the enemy can see on themselves. The community is honestly trying to paint the rework as a positive thing by putting her in the jungle when she essentially allows laners to know that she is going to gank them because they have vital targets appear to them. ****ing stupid.

Even Garen has more burst potential than the new Fiora because they buffed his AD, damage output, and burst potential (true damage ultimate) because they nerfed his ability to stick on targets (Judgment slows you down when you head towards enemy champions) along with his health (health per level gain and health regen both got nerfed).

The chances that you hit the enemy vitals is actually low considering the fact that several meta champions that people love to play have a stealth or untargetability mechanic or a form of cc that they can use in order to stop Fiora. In order to counterplay this, Fiora has her W, her W makes her immobile. Her form of counterplay in the middle of a teamfight is now to be immobile and to throw a pre-determined aimed shot in one direction. Also when you do get the chance to hit the enemy vital it does % true hp damage, however maximizing this side of Fiora means that you have to wait another half a second for her passive to take effect and locate another vital point, but by this time if you went with old AD Fiora you have either killed the enemy or the enemy has killed you at this point.

This sounds more apt for a passive that belongs to a "duelist": ignore unit collision and takes reduced physical damage from basic attacks. That's Fizz's passive. Even Fiora's old lifesteal passive, as "horrible" as it was made more sense as a passive for a duelist because it gave you just that little amount of HP you may have needed to outrade the enemy you were fighting. In order to really "duel" people are Fiora you need to build her as a bruiser. And she sucks in this category because her team based kit is entirely situational and counterplay reliant. She is not a champion who has counterplay or has a kit that can counterplay, she is a champion who MUST counterplay the enemy champions in order to make her kit work. Because she's a "duelist."

There has been a resurgence in the development team to rely on lore to recreate champions. Them taking GP out of the game because he died in the lore is just an indicator of awful reasoning Riot has given to the player base as a reason for reworks. The explanation in the Juggernauts rework that they want all the champions to give a new feeling to the game and introducing a "Villain" mechanic to Garen which has been pointed out to be gameplay questionable because he himself can't control who the villain is introduces elements to the game that are ultimate unnecessary and really RNG. Riot's lack of a good reason to provide a "sandbox mode" the user base because their entire reasoning is that they don't want people to use it is ridiculous and the development team should be criticized for pushing the game in a direction no one asked for simply because they don't have any more good ideas to push the game into a more competitive direction.

 

[Cheerilee]

MF rework is still too AP based without offering more Marksman utility i.e. Tristana who has AP scalings on abilities but her entire kit makes sense for a Marksman to have. MF wasn't even drastically changed but still had a section dedicated to her on release. But actually slipping in the Fiora rework that was only spoken about in broad terms without a release feature is ridiculous when she has been completely revisoned.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.co...e/sqMalcLL-the-garen-rework-is-an-abomination

The most informative post I saw with respect to the Garen rework even taking into consideration the fact that you might not agree with his opinion. Even more useful than any of the Riot related material.



They turned Fiora into an AD bruiser who has to hit "vital" points that the enemy can see on themselves. The community is honestly trying to paint the rework as a positive thing by putting her in the jungle when she essentially allows laners to know that she is going to gank them because they have vital targets appear to them. ****ing stupid.

Even Garen has more burst potential than the new Fiora because they buffed his AD, damage output, and burst potential (true damage ultimate) because they nerfed his ability to stick on targets (Judgment slows you down when you head towards enemy champions) along with his health (health per level gain and health regen both got nerfed).

The chances that you hit the enemy vitals is actually low considering the fact that several meta champions that people love to play have a stealth or untargetability mechanic or a form of cc that they can use in order to stop Fiora. In order to counterplay this, Fiora has her W, her W makes her immobile. Her form of counterplay in the middle of a teamfight is now to be immobile and to throw a pre-determined aimed shot in one direction. Also when you do get the chance to hit the enemy vital it does % true hp damage, however maximizing this side of Fiora means that you have to wait another half a second for her passive to take effect and locate another vital point, but by this time if you went with old AD Fiora you have either killed the enemy or the enemy has killed you at this point.

This sounds more apt for a passive that belongs to a "duelist": ignore unit collision and takes reduced physical damage from basic attacks. That's Fizz's passive. Even Fiora's old lifesteal passive, as "horrible" as it was made more sense as a passive for a duelist because it gave you just that little amount of HP you may have needed to outrade the enemy you were fighting. In order to really "duel" people are Fiora you need to build her as a bruiser. And she sucks in this category because her team based kit is entirely situational and counterplay reliant. She is not a champion who has counterplay or has a kit that can counterplay, she is a champion who MUST counterplay the enemy champions in order to make her kit work. Because she's a "duelist."

There has been a resurgence in the development team to rely on lore to recreate champions. Them taking GP out of the game because he died in the lore is just an indicator of awful reasoning Riot has given to the player base as a reason for reworks. The explanation in the Juggernauts rework that they want all the champions to give a new feeling to the game and introducing a "Villain" mechanic to Garen which has been pointed out to be gameplay questionable because he himself can't control who the villain is introduces elements to the game that are ultimate unnecessary and really RNG. Riot's lack of a good reason to provide a "sandbox mode" the user base because their entire reasoning is that they don't want people to use it is ridiculous and the development team should be criticized for pushing the game in a direction no one asked for simply because they don't have any more good ideas to push the game into a more competitive direction.

There is a lot of misinformation in that post, some of the stuff there us imperially wrong or a no duh kind of post.

He's not losing his advantage against riven or renekton, that is a load of bull.

The only reason he won those is his passive, W giving innate bulk and the simple fact he had a silence. The duration going down is an odd choice even to me.

The crit chance complain is really stupid. He only built IE when he was snowballing super hard, or wanted to try to, then fell off unless he built LW and Cleaver with it.

There are aspects I'm not as much of a fan either but I honestly don't trust riot forums to be sensible over sensationalism whining and complaining.

 

[Cheerilee]

There is a lot of misinformation in that post, some of the stuff there us imperially wrong or a no duh kind of post. He's not losing his advantage against riven or renekton, that is a load of bull. The only reason he won those is his passive, W giving innate bulk and the simple fact he had a silence. The duration going down is an odd choice even to me. The crit chance complain is really stupid. He only built IE when he was snowballing super hard, or wanted to try to, then fell off unless he built LW and Cleaver with it. There are aspects I'm not as much of a fan either but I honestly don't trust riot forums to be sensible over sensationalism whining and complaining.

I'm just so salty over the Fiora rework. So salty.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm just so salty over the Fiora rework. So salty.

Odd, I'm the opposite lol sorry.

As for Garen though this got changed today.

• P - Perseverance
  • HP/sec at level 16 1.6% >>> 2.0% (Live value)
• Q - Decisive Strike
  • (Added) Garen now moves up to 50 units toward his target when attacking with Decisive Strike from max attack range
• W - Courage
  • Armor/MR per kill 0.2 >>> 0.3
  • Armor/MR per Champion/LargeMonster/EpicMonster kill 1 >>> 0.3
  • Armor/MR cap per rank 10/15/20/25/30 >>> 30 all ranks
• E - Judgment
  • Base Damage 12/16/20/24/28 >>> 20/25/30/35/40
  • (Removed) Garen is no longer slowed when moving toward champions he's hitting with Judgment
  • (Added) Judgment now deals 25% reduced damage when hitting multiple units
  • (Removed) Judgment no longer deals reduced damage to minions
    *R - Demacian Justice - unchanged

Passive reverted to live, good. Q fixed an issue I had with the AA range buffs, it made judgement worse but this fixes that problem. W got fixed, thank god it's a better one point wonder so I can max Q second again. It feels better over what it was before in areas I had issue with.

The change I do not like, (Added) Judgment now deals 25% reduced damage when hitting multiple units, but at least they got rid of the slowing himself part and the base values went up.

So I think this might work out better, not sure I'd need to math again. Overall Judgement even with that added part of multiple enemies probably still hits harder than live Garen post level 9 due to the added ticks to his Judgement.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The only thing I'm not liking is the skarner changes and that the twitch buffs are so freaking tiny it's barely scratching the surface of his main problems they did to him since S4 worlds.