• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

KRDsonic

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Charleston, West Virginia
Bleh, yeah. Supports who don't understand how to play the support role are frustrating. Your job as a support is to make it safe for your adc to farm and make it hard for the enemy adc to farm. If they adc wants the wave pushed, let them do it. If they want it frozen, let them freeze it. The support should not be attacking the minions unless they have relic shield, which generally should only be them last hitting cannon minions or melee minions.

It just sucks when you had an support who decides to keep shoving the wave, constantly trying to engage at points where the enemy has the advantage, etc. and so the only way you can get farm is to go to their tower to get it, in which case you're over-extended, and if you die, suddenly it's "Our adc is so bad." At least it's a good feeling when you have a good support who leaves the wave alone and just zones so you can farm, and knows how to trade correctly and make sure that you're in position to trade too before they go all in.


:059:
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
Just want to nail this one in the coffin. I completely played like trash this game as Jax and our team had no cooperation in teamfights whatsoever. I also picked ADC masteries (by accident) over jungle masteries which affected the entire game for me in a negative way (cause I like to have some more tankiness as a jungler based on my build style).





Around 20:00 into the game Blitzcrank chose to leash blue for me, leash gromp for me, when I was trying to get health back from camps by using lifesteal and there was a teamfight in the middle of the map so I told him to stop leashing for me and to help the team in the middle of the map and issued several warning pings when he refused to listen. The entire team basically raged at me, so I said I was sorry and muted all of them. And then I primary engaged with Q + E and saw that they all backed away after I went in so I flashed out and never primary engaged again for the duration of the game.

The duo bot lane separated from the rest of the team and did duo bot lane things like getting red while we were getting inhib, getting baron while I was getting inhib, or just generally trying to do **** on the opposite side of the map in order for me to get killed. Leblanc did less damage than me and my only damage items were Cinderhulk and Blade of the Ruined King and she was 3-0 in lane because I camped the **** out of Zed since she froze her lane the entire game.

Here's the kicker. Enemy jungler was Master Yi with Devourer. So I started ganking at level 3. This is the first thirteen minutes of the game (for us we're red team):



About 12-13 kills into the game with no deaths. And then the enemy team actually starts grouping. At the very last death you see Yi trying to participate although he's not even close to finishing his stacks. Their team fighting and how they pushed lanes at this point were so much more effective and efficient than what we were doing. We had three people recall in the middle of a teamfight and the duo bot lane could not care whether we fought as a team.

So in conclusion, devourer is a great item that adds diversity to the game. However it's absolutely toxic to how people actually play the game in lower elo because the people who currently use the item (a) do not build a balance around the item to maximize it's efficiency and use in Solo Q or (b) do not create opportunities to utilize the item when it can still make an impact on the game and essentially invalidate the item for themselves by the time they finish building it. The fact that one player can hugely impact the other four teammates to the point where someone who just picks a non-devourer champion and just plays without taking advantage of the item's "weakness" is frustrating.

Essentially game knowledge discrepancy between someone who blindly picks and rushes a devourer without understanding the implications of doing so against someone who abuses the decline of active jungle participation is even more astonishing and a bigger snowball factor than a matchup between a laner who freezes against one who is trying to farm under his enemy's tower. Because it's entirely possible that a devourer based jungler will not even take advantage of the lane push to secure a gank because they are tunneled in on farming their devourer item which will not be worth it in the end with that mentality.

He never got to satiate it btw.

 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
Bleh, yeah. Supports who don't understand how to play the support role are frustrating. Your job as a support is to make it safe for your adc to farm and make it hard for the enemy adc to farm. If they adc wants the wave pushed, let them do it. If they want it frozen, let them freeze it. The support should not be attacking the minions unless they have relic shield, which generally should only be them last hitting cannon minions or melee minions.

It just sucks when you had an support who decides to keep shoving the wave, constantly trying to engage at points where the enemy has the advantage, etc. and so the only way you can get farm is to go to their tower to get it, in which case you're over-extended, and if you die, suddenly it's "Our adc is so bad." At least it's a good feeling when you have a good support who leaves the wave alone and just zones so you can farm, and knows how to trade correctly and make sure that you're in position to trade too before they go all in.
:059:
I understand why champions with minion collision spells like Thresh, Morgana, or Blitzcrank would want to affect the wave in order to set-up for an engage on the enemy. However, more often than not what I see is that they see the minion wave around our tower and they react defensively and start auto attacking the minion waves as if they are someone drowning under water and trying to bat at the waves with their hands as if they were trying to stay afloat.

In the same vein, if your support is someone who has trouble dodging skill shots then maybe they prefer to have that wall of minions so they can just watch their screen and stand still for a couple of seconds, rest easy for a bit. Because I know that auto-attack closest target feature doesn't trigger unless you're really not right clicking on anything. But yeah in the case that the enemy has pushed out your wave my mentality is always to let it push while kiting back the minions.

I also understand why having a minion wave would be useful towards applying minion aggro when you want to cs and you're getting harassed by an auto. But let's be real here, I've never had anyone trade CS for harass with me in bot lane. The enemy champion could be on Caitlyn and will still be out of position to harass me when I go in for CS because she's too busy auto attacking a full health minion and pushing those minion waves hard like she's about to give birth.

Personally though I stopped playing supports that have collision oriented spells. I only really play Annie and harass the ADC out of lane with magic pen reds + AP quints and blues. And I know every time I hit Q it's going to hit them. My delayed auto motion is going to hit them. Every time I want to cc someone as Annie, I know I will cc them. Just that 100% guarantee and 100% harass all the time with people who just walk into my range and let themselves be hit. I'm even trying out Nunu with the same exact concept because he synergizes really well with a tankier build giving me a tank with guaranteed harass option (bc no one wants to play tanks in Solo Q even if it means we pretty much lose at champ select with Fizz Top, Elise JG, Yasuo Mid).

With respect to the second paragraph, in Solo Q if I tell my ADC to stop pushing and they just straight up ignore me then I just literally leave the lane when we hit tower, ward up the river, and gank mid with stun. Chances are they die in a 1 v. 2 or a 1 v. 3 if they don't back off, but the team doesn't blame me because I indicated that I was going to gank mid. The ADC keeps pushing like an idiot, then let him keep dying until he realizes that the reason they are dying is because they aren't only last hitting. Maybe a bad attitude, but I'd rather gank some assholes rather than letting myself be ganked on a non-tanky oriented champion that can't buy the ADC enough time to make it back to tower without someone dying regardless.
 
Last edited:

teluoborg

Smash Otter
Premium
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
4,060
Location
Paris, France
NNID
teloutre
Reminds me of the S4 jungle Udyr's who would farm all game and never gank. At least with Feral Flare, you got stacks from getting kills too, so there was actually a benefit to ganking lanes for even selfish people too.

:059:
You get devourer stacks from kills and assists too, even if they are worth 1/2 scuttle crab.
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
I've learned how to not rage as a tank in long, frustrating games. This is what you do. You list all the AD carries on your team. And around the thirty minute mark you decide which one has the best personality to actually work as a duo unit with you. You tell them all the secrets about the game like ADs can shred towers and there is an item called the elixir of wrath that makes you even stronger as a seventh item. You tell your team if they ever heard about rotating around objectives rather than blindly pushing to second tower with no ward coverage. And then you talk about your life, your dreams, your aspirations, what you plan to do with it after you finish this game when it finally ends. And you press E whenever you see Master Yi because **** that guy he sucks and there's no reason he should win with fighter enchantment in a one hour game even if your team is playing all their champions for the first time (was really the case).

 

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
Thorn mail fiora. and Visage vayne in to panth/yi. I'm so sorry
 
Last edited:

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
Thorn mail fiora. and Visage vayne in to panth/yi. I'm so sorry
New Age Heimerdinger Build.

Morellonomicon and Athene's Unholy Grail for twice the mana regen. Trinity Force for on hit auto damage proc. And Guardian's Angel to keep those turrets going even when Heimerdinger himself has seemingly bit the dust.

Thorn Mail and Guardian Angel on Fiora is a new meta where Fiora gets tanky enough to fight into first pick top lane Pantheon. Cause Pantheon thinks he ***** you and then you counter-**** him by building the same exact items he builds except you build even tankier to out-sustain his passive.

Trinity Force Ms. Fortune with Mercurial Scrimitar + Banshee's Veil to protect yourself against Rammus / Morgana threats. Everyone in higher elo said that it's a tank meta and ADC's were useless, but ADC's just weren't thinking in the right diretion and with three B.F. sword builds no tank is stopping you with the raw damage output you have.

If you thought Alistar was a good tank look at how much damage he can tank when he activates his Zhonya's. Zhonya's + Guardian Angel make Alistar super tanky and his cc in additino to his Frozen Gauntlet make him an unstoppable monster.

When people see Master Yi lock himself in champ select they think he's going to farm all game. And yes he is still going to farm all game, but with reduced CDR and not the typical devourer enchantment. This Yi is a true master of the jungle who can proc his W regen faster and won't go down without a fight.

Also Spirit Visage Vayne because when you have so much lifesteal who cares if you get hit once or twice? You can dodge most of the skill shots with your Q and do enough damage to heal yourself back to full health in basically one auto because you are a hyper carry.

AP Morgana support doesn't need mobility boots or sighstone. While Heimerdinger builds more towards support the team with items like Trinity Force, it's up to support Morgana to take over the game and help the team by building sorceror shoes and upgrading her Red Trinket in order to deny vision. Because the next best thing to leaving your own team without end game vision is to leave the enemy team without end game vision as well.
 
Last edited:

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
Oh my god I didn't even see the triforce heim

Like the other ones are kinda justified (other than ga+zhonyas on ali, and yi no devourer) but what was his plan


The dumbest builds Ive ran into in ranked are like, udyr top wits rush, jungle runeglaive poppy, and black cleaver rush ez.

The dumbest build I've ever done (that i haven't blocked out of my memory) was rush twin shadows on Nami because I took 5 kills in lane and we stayed so long I could buy it outright. It worked really well actually.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
I do not read anywhere saying Viktor is now played cause no assassins lol

You're so damn hard to discuss things.
Many many other level 3's are better than Fizz, ahri azir comes to mind quickly.
Sorry I misread that, I thought you said it was because assassins weren't around. MB

Does Azir have kill potential at 3 though? I know he has good harass but he didn't strike me as having the burst at that level. I wouldn't know though because I've never been all-inned at level 3 by an Azir lol.

Also change of subject but why do top Maos take attack speed? Never played him but I couldn't see anything in his kit that scales with it, unless I missed something
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
So I decided to try warrior Wukong instead of my normal jungle Wu build because Warrior is the meta build, holy **** it's so weak. No wonder he's not that popular in the jungle. You do zero ****en damage in teamfights, you can't even oneshot the backline. I thought I'd try it for the earlier CDR to make more plays with ult but it clearly wasn't worth it lol.
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
So I decided to try warrior Wukong instead of my normal jungle Wu build because Warrior is the meta build, holy **** it's so weak. No wonder he's not that popular in the jungle. You do zero ****en damage in teamfights, you can't even oneshot the backline. I thought I'd try it for the earlier CDR to make more plays with ult but it clearly wasn't worth it lol.
You must love Maokai.
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
Once again I'm not following. You have to remember I'm dumb so you need to explain things to me. I'm gonna assume you were implying that Mao can build tank and still oneshot the backline?
Mao is likely even more frustrating than Wu. Assumed you had run a couple of games with him.
 

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
Mao just pops glory, runs at the adc, then sticks to them forever while shrugging off the damage of the adc+whoever is peeling while doing %hp and high base dmg. All with only a rod as a damage item, if that.
 

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,009
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
Maokai doesn't go ROA anymore because it became more of an offensive item than Defensive. Glory is infinitely better to use cause the chase it gives + you can't be getting two catalysts.
Maokai literally doesn't need ap items at all, he ****s damage regardless even with just one d ring.
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
I must be doing something wrong because I run double doran's ring into righteous glory and I feel like I do absolutely nothing against my top lane opponent.
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
30,577
Location
Texas
NNID
EspyRose
Cinderhulk Wu is fine so long as you build at least one damage item, like a Cleaver or Hydra. Depends on how well you're doing. :applejack:
 

KRDsonic

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Charleston, West Virginia
Oh my ****ing god I hate League sometimes. Over 1 out of every 3 games I've played the past 2 weeks has had an afk in it, and literally EVERY SINGLE GAME it has been on my team.

Edit: Just tried out the new mode. Guess what though? My ADC was afk for half of laning phase. I swear I have the worst luck in League.

:059:
 
Last edited:

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
AP quints + 30 ap and not doing damage as maokai?
Must not be maxing Q/W then.
Yeah it's weird. I literally can't close out someone who has low health for some reason. I feel that you really need to time his W perfectly in order to root the enemy right as they use flash in order to finish bursting them down. Maokai to me requires much more thinking and consistency in using his Q + E in order to be successful over someone like Irelia or Nasus who tend to be centered around skills that just involve hitting a button without needing to worry landing any skill shots.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
Cinderhulk Wu is fine so long as you build at least one damage item, like a Cleaver or Hydra. Depends on how well you're doing. :applejack:
That's what I do. I upgrade my smite then go into Tiamat. Depending on how I'm going I'll either go straight into Hydra or complete my Cinderhulk/get resistances. I also get Cleaver later on, as it gives him some scaling into late and synergies really well with Hydra. You can afford to get it as well as Hydra, because 400 health plus GA resistances from his passive make it effectively double as a tank item.

My final build is normally tank boots hydra cinder rabduins visage cleaver, but the order depends on the game. I get 35% CDR, and 4K health lategame. I can 100-0 ADCs whilst proving AoE knock up and armour shred, whilst also being tanks. His post ult DPS is good too as you have AoE of an AS steroid that shreds and gives life steal.

My top build is normally the same except that I swap out cinder for sunfire. Only problem I have with the build is that you sit on 5% CDR for awhile, which is a much bigger deal in the jungle as you're reliant on your ult to make plays.
 

teluoborg

Smash Otter
Premium
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
4,060
Location
Paris, France
NNID
teloutre
Dre what did I tell you about building cinder/sunfire on Wu Kong ? The item has 0 synergy with the character so stop it.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
Dre what did I tell you about building cinder/sunfire on Wu Kong ? The item has 0 synergy with the character so stop it.
Cinder has no synergy? You mean a bruiser that builds a health-AD item and finds it more efficient get health instead of resistances due to his passive, doesn't synergise well with a health-stacking item? You can even argue he synergises a with the burn seeing as he'll be on his targets for awhile.
 

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,009
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
Wukong is better to build full damage. Elder lizard was the only good item to build on wukong when he was fotm because if he went golem his damage was abysmal and he couldn't clear well. Plus damage you did to monsters gave you health/mana back.

Cinderhulk is the same even with the mini-sunfire Warrior's > Cinder.
And if you're going down the damage route, why even bother going into the jungle? Just go top lane and **** up some people (except gnar and maokai) before they get tanky.

Devour fizz is the best btw.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
Wukong is better to build full damage. Elder lizard was the only good item to build on wukong when he was fotm because if he went golem his damage was abysmal and he couldn't clear well. Plus damage you did to monsters gave you health/mana back.

Cinderhulk is the same even with the mini-sunfire Warrior's > Cinder.
And if you're going down the damage route, why even bother going into the jungle? Just go top lane and **** up some people (except gnar and maokai) before they get tanky.

Devour fizz is the best btw.
I only go jungle when I can't go top

I'd never rush cinder because I agree that you need damage early. In S4 you had to go lizard because you needed to complete the item to get the bonus gold and increased dmg on camps. But now you get that from just the smite upgrade, so you can upgrade smite then go into Tiamat and get cinderhulk later. This way you still get early damage for ganks and stuff, but you can get the jungle item that actually scales.

Warrior is a HUGE damage loss from Hydra. You do more damage with just Hydra than you do with both Warrior and BC.

I used to build full AD, but I don't like it because he can't be the primary engage and you blow up instantly. Hydra BC- tank still 100-0s back lines (they will normally get down to around 20% when they land from the knock up, so you finish them off with the rest of the ult or E them again) but you can survive and offer more afterward. I feel like bruiser does the same thing as Full AD but more as well.
 

teluoborg

Smash Otter
Premium
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
4,060
Location
Paris, France
NNID
teloutre
Yes I'm talking about building only one of the cinder items, I don't think Dre would build both lmao.
I used to build full AD, but I don't like it because he can't be the primary engage and you blow up instantly. Hydra BC- tank still 100-0s back lines (they will normally get down to around 20% when they land from the knock up, so you finish them off with the rest of the ult or E them again) but you can survive and offer more afterward. I feel like bruiser does the same thing as Full AD but more as well.
Though Wu scales much better with AD and arpen than with hp and a magic dot I can kinda understand your reasoning and in this case cinderhulk is OK.
But by following your logic of not relying on your jungle item for damage you're better off with letting the upgraded machete sit in your inventory and sell it when you need your 6th slot, this way you can build a defensive item with more relevant stats than just HP.

And yes you can apply the dot easily because of your sticking power, but that's it. Any AD item will give you more damage than the passive and any other armor item (FH, Randuin, Thornmail) will make you tankier than 450 health and 45 armor or 300(+25%) hp. That's why I said that cinder doesn't synergize with Wu, you have a ton of items that do what you ask from it but better.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
Yes I'm talking about building only one of the cinder items, I don't think Dre would build both lmao.
Though Wu scales much better with AD and arpen than with hp and a magic dot I can kinda understand your reasoning and in this case cinderhulk is OK.
But by following your logic of not relying on your jungle item for damage you're better off with letting the upgraded machete sit in your inventory and sell it when you need your 6th slot, this way you can build a defensive item with more relevant stats than just HP.

And yes you can apply the dot easily because of your sticking power, but that's it. Any AD item will give you more damage than the passive and any other armor item (FH, Randuin, Thornmail) will make you tankier than 450 health and 45 armor or 300(+25%) hp. That's why I said that cinder doesn't synergize with Wu, you have a ton of items that do what you ask from it but better.
I suppose the idea of just sitting on the smite upgrade for the whole game could be pretty legit. If the threat is lop-sided, I'll go into the relevant resistances first, then get cinder once I have some health under my belt to make use of the scaling. The times when I get cinder early are when I'm not snowballing and I feel like there's an equal AD and AP threat. I'll probably try just sitting on the smite upgrade though.

As for Sunfire, the issue I have is that I feel I need the health to make up for the fact that I don't get a second MR item. The reason I don't is because base mr/lvl plus mr/lvl blues plus Wu passive with 5 enemies is around 100 MR. That's not factoring in my Visage or possible Mercs. So I get Sunfire and Randuin's, as opposed to FH or tmail, for the health so that they double as effective MR items when you factor in all the MR I'm getting elsewhere. Sometimes I'll get omen instead of sunfire first if I'm losing to an AS champ, but then I don't know what I'd get as my second armour item.
 
Last edited:

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
Armour pen is actually pretty inefficient on Wu because he has so much armour shred between black cleaver and Q. You also have permanent AoE shred if you have a hydra on top of that BC. Shred and pen do not synergise well in terms of efficiency because the shred will reduce the amount of armour that your pen will ignore. Obviously shred+pen will negate more armour than just shred, but it's more efficient to just get a high AD item (or in the case of runes AD reds). Especially considering he has such high AD scaling.
 
Last edited:

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
What about Statik Shyvv with Ravenous Hydra and Sunfire Cape. Statik synergizes well with Nimbus Strike imo and when all three items are combined you can get even more permanent AoE shred.
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548


First anticipated game for me this entire season:



If TSM lose in Quarters they won't be going to Worlds even with their Circuit Points. IIRC lowest they can go in playoffs and still qualify is third place.

Actually this is completely wrong. Second place is completely based on circuit point standings which are right here. I had more typed up but I accidentally backed out and it didn't save. But it's nothing you can't infer from the diagram below.

 
Last edited:

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
you're welcome bro

I have no faith in TL reliably performing because of that C9 sweep. Montecristo says that TL has the strongest laners in the NA region at the moment primarily because of Fenix and Piglet taking up bottom and mid lanes respectively. Monte's hard on for LCK probably blinds him and TiP burned him during Spring Split. I really dislike CLG and TSM. I'm happy if anyone but those two teams make it to Worlds.
 
Top Bottom