Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[DallasPhat]

AH crap Tom why did you have to talk about Karma? Now mogwai going to come in with a wall of text about how Karma the best...

 

[Zolga Owns]

Karma IS da bess.

 

[Mogwai]

is karma really good? her scaling isn't heal/shield support OR aoe damage x2, its AND. they scale the same way. i think she would be a good middle lane. with blue buff she can aoe heal massive sustain.

yes, but no one ****ing listens to me when I tell them.

Karma's absurdly stronk in lane and absurdly stronk AS LONG AS YOUR TEAM IS NOT FAILING. The one huge thing she is lacking compared to standard AP carries is that she can't like, flash -> combo for a triple kill all by herself midgame, which is one of their biggest pros in solo queue of APs. She doesn't single handedly win the game by flash -> tibbers -> kill whole team and steal dragon the way most AP carries can, but in drawn out fights that are otherwise even, she's so stupidly strong. With that in mind, it's best to pick a team like that to compliment her, kiting teams that can derp around and draw fights out are so strong with her. **** like Singed + Udyr + Janna + Ashe + Karma is pretty impossible to fight straight up.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Why am I seeing so many support Nunu's recently?

 

[DallasPhat]

Support nunu/gp/shaco/ INSERT RANDOM CHAMPION here cause everyone want to be an individual instead of being effecient.

 

[fkacyan]

I LOVE brolaf. His ult buff makes him scary.

Olaf was my first jungle character and I love him to death, but no mobility steroids of any kind hurt his ability to gank. That said, the axe is better than just a movement steroid.

Poor Shyvana, she's super fun to play.

EDIT: Maybe I should try an AP Rylai's build. Hextech / Nashors / Rylais / Lich Bane / etc? AoE slows, mm.

 

[DMG]

Be fast

Have fury

Be a man

 

[fkacyan]

Be fast

Have fury

Be a man

I must be swift as the coursing river

 

[DallasPhat]

The rylai build isn't that strong on Shyvana, she only got 2 moves that scale with AP and they scale very poorly. You're better off going irelia cookie cutter build with her. I have found myself skipping out on boots/getting them late due to her already massive MS buff she gets from W.

 

[fkacyan]

The rylai build isn't that strong on Shyvana, she only got 2 moves that scale with AP and they scale very poorly. You're better off going irelia cookie cutter build with her. I have found myself skipping out on boots/getting them late due to her already massive MS buff she gets from W.

I know their scaling is bootycheeks, just thinking of ways I can get more out of her kit. The basic irelia build is what I've been using for the most part.

 

[@TKbreezy]

are irelia still building HoG + philo?

thats usually what I get before I start triforce. then I build them into what they are supposed to build into and get Atmas and FoN (if needed but if not then BV) I mean seems legit for me atleast?

alsoooooo

Mogwai tell me how to build/play/rune/mastery Karma

she seems legit but underplayed like ****. I need another support player anyway.

 

[DMG]

Hog not as much. P stone to whatever sure. Hog not bad, but you should def get Pstone. More sustain and passive gold? Sounds great!

 

[Wave⁂]

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/inside-design-summoner-spells-and-season-two

Flash and CV nerfs
Heal and Cleanse buffs
Rally replaced with "Surge", aura around champion
Fortify replaced with Promote, only castable on cannon minions

 

[Pakman]

I must be swift as the coursing river

God damnit.

*Opens youtube

 

[fkacyan]

God damnit.

*Opens youtube

WITH ALL THE FORCE OF A GREAT TYPHOON

be a man

WITH ALL THE STRENGTH OF A RAGING FIRE

MYSTERIOUS AS THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOOOOOOOON

 

[DMG]

Well ****. Buffing Cleanse.... ehh not the biggest fan of that. I'd rather have up cleanse than OP cleanse

 

[fkacyan]

Well ****. Buffing Cleanse.... ehh not the biggest fan of that. I'd rather have up cleanse than OP cleanse

I can't really see a downside to it removing enemy summoner spells. It's more predictive, seeing as you can't see what spells they pick.

 

[L__]

I miss the days when cleanse was THE 'oh ****' button

 

[PhantomX]

If they do it right, this should be good for the game. More diversity in spell selection is always good.

P.S. HELL YEAH. Primal Udyr sale.

 

[Mogwai]

are irelia still building HoG + philo?

thats usually what I get before I start triforce. then I build them into what they are supposed to build into and get Atmas and FoN (if needed but if not then BV) I mean seems legit for me atleast?

HoG + Philo for lanes easy enough to support them, but once you're playing against comparably skilled opponents who don't spec like *******, you usually can't support double gold/10 without getting punished (I still get it vs. like, singed/nasus/any AP).

In the harder AD lanes, you open wriggle's. wriggle's on irelia is ********, you can heal like 500 hp from just autoing a lane down while tanking it, it's so stupid and impossible for basically any AD to deal with.

After you sure up your opening, usually philo + hog OR wriggle's, your 3 target items are wit's end, trinity, and GA. Other stuff feels pretty suboptimal to me, I almost always want these items on Irelia. The exceptions to this are QSS and SotD (yea yea yea, I know). QSS is pretty vital if the opposing team can like, Malz ult + ignite and kill you when you initiate by diving. Being able to clear that **** and start wailing on the opponents to heal up is crucial, otherwise you can't initiate. SotD is what I like when I see multiple dodge boots. Almost all the gold goes into Attack Speed which is Irelia's best scaling offensive stat and the rest goes into an on-hit that synergizes with AS (you'll be buying more in the form of Triforce/Wit's), Armor Pen (synergizes with attacking, your ult and your Q), and circumventing dodge. It's kinda hilarious how fast a SotD Irelia butchers a Jax and it's really helpful in certain games.

Typical end game build looks like GA + Wit's + Triforce + Tabi/Mercs + Omen + FoN/QSS with slight variations on the last two items being typical and plenty of other room for variation based on the game (such as having a wriggles instead of Omen or w/e).

alsoooooo

Mogwai tell me how to build/play/rune/mastery Karma

she seems legit but underplayed like ****. I need another support player anyway.

uhg, she's not support, she's an AP carry like Zil or Morgana.

9/0/21, typical caster setup. AP Quints, MPen Marks. Glyphs and Seals can be AP, Scaling AP, or Defensive stats, it's preferential, though I honestly think flat Armor and MRes are probably the best given how you have to play Karma in lane.

Lane mid or top vs. not GP/Pantheon/Garen, open boots or dring, then open with 2-3 drings -> sorc shoes -> abyssal scepter + deathcap if your team doesn't have someone else who needs blue buff and you can hog it, otherwise open 2 drings -> Morello's + CDR boots -> Deathcap. You need CDR on Karma and I prefer to get it from blue buff, but if you can't, you gotta deal with it and build around that. Deathcap is core because it's ****ing Deathcap and on top of just being the best anyway, it also synergizes with your passive. Sometimes I'll just have 2 drings + deathcap and I'll look down towards the end of a fight and be like, lol 450 AP cuz I'm at 10% HP.

After that, I favor resistances on my AP items. Abyssal and Hourglass are great. Resistances > HP on Karma because she shields and heals herself so much, so she has a lot of hidden HP. I never understand why I see some RoA Karma's, it's pretty stupid on her. Rylai's is ok sometimes, but not always. Void staff is good when you need it. Pump a lot of blue elixirs if you're getting blue buff for CDR to cap your CDR and give more stupid AP.

Skills go QEQEQEQEQEQEWWWWWW, with your first point in W whenever it seems to make sense. Basically, as soon as I expect a non-slam dunk gank, I'll grab a level of W, otherwise I'll hold off until laning phase ends. Don't teamfight without W, otherwise you lose a lot of your utility and damage. You can switch up E > Q sometimes, but Q is on a much shorter CD and lower mana and isn't mantra bound, so Q is usually better to get for laning unless you know you'll just be 2 shotting creep waves and then backing off (in which case E's higher damage/shield is more useful since you have enough mantra to use 1/creep wave.

 

[JTB]

Is there anything else you can do against a tanky dps team except go madreds/frozen heart/dfg?

 

[DMG]

Give them the Peepee

 

[Mogwai]

Is there anything else you can do against a tanky dps team except go madreds/frozen heart/dfg?

buy a last whisper and having your tanks do their ****ing job instead of trying to dive a caitlyn/ezreal.

 

[jpak]

ya cv is kind of strong but if its on a longer cd and shorter duration less i think i would play safer.. having cv lets you make more aggressive moves after 10 mins. wards on the other hand prevent that "exciting play" they want...

might as well remove flash soon enough instead of making it worse and worse.. flash is important on so many things, champs with no gap closers will be sad. hopefully new summoners give you some mobility too

 

[Wave⁂]

Tenacity, QSS, BV, Hexdrinker, Aegis, Stark's, lots of tenacity, LW, BC, Void, tenacity

 

[DallasPhat]

if they do it right, this should be good for the game. More diversity in spell selection is always good.

P.s. Hell yeah. Primal udyr sale.

when i must know when!!

Btw guessing what your opponent summoner skills are isn't a prediction, it's almost set in stone what x champion will get for their summoner spells. The cleanse buff is too good, AD carries no longer have to waste a inventory slot for QSS to remove debuffs such as exhaust and etc etc. I see no reason not to grab cleanse anymore against a team with 1+ stuns.

 

[john!]

new cleanse looks amazing, if they nerf flash enough then i'm taking cleanse instead.

also i may have found my secret to winning solo q. she's been there all year just waiting for me to select her

 

[UTDZac]

I do it too, but the answer is still probably yes. I dunno, I'm just noticing that if I came to lane with 31 arPen, I'd rarely be wasting any of it these days and that's making me reconsider flat AD on my quints.

Unless you were also talking about marks, in which case the answer is a resounding yes by all accounts.

Hmm ok. I will investigate this. I tend to have more success with flat AD reds than armor pen reds. Tho, armor pen reds sound like they should be better. I guess I just like last hitting lol.

Let's do some calculations. Teemo starts with 44.5 base attack damage and gains 3 attack damage per level.

[collapse="Early Level - Armor Pen"]
15 Armor Pen runes against champ with 20 (+3 per level) armor.

[Lv 1] 44.5 atk vs 5 armor
44.5 * 100 / (100 + 5) = 42.38

[Lv 3] 50.5 atk vs 11 armor
50.5 * 100 / (100 + 11) = 45.50

[Lv 5] 56.5 atk vs 17 armor
56.5 * 100 / (100 + 17) = 48.29

15 Armor Pen runes against champ with 40 (+3 per level) armor.

[Lv 1] 44.5 atk vs 25 armor
44.5 * 100 / (100 + 25) = 35.60

[Lv 3] 50.5 atk vs 31 armor
50.5 * 100 / (100 + 31) = 38.55

[Lv 5] 56.5 atk vs 37 armor
56.5 * 100 / (100 + 37) = 41.24
[/collapse]
[collapse="Early Level - Flat AD Reds"]
8.55 Attack Damage runes against champ with 20 (+3 per level) armor.

[Lv 1] 53.05 atk vs 20 armor
53.05 * 100 / (100 + 20) = 44.21

[Lv 3] 59.05 atk vs 26 armor
59.05 * 100 / (100 + 26) = 46.87

[Lv 5] 65.05 atk vs 32 armor
65.05 * 100 / (100 + 32) = 49.28

8.55 Attack Damage runes against champ with 40 (+3 per level) armor.

[Lv 1] 53.05 atk vs 40 armor
53.05 * 100 / (100 + 40) = 37.89

[Lv 3] 59.05 atk vs 46 armor
59.05 * 100 / (100 + 46) = 40.45

[Lv 5] 65.05 atk vs 52 armor
65.05 * 100 / (100 + 52) = 42.80
[/collapse]
[collapse="Late game - Both options"]
[Lv 18] 128.5 atk (includes madreds) vs 85 armor (after 15 armor pen)
128.5 * 100 / (100 + 85) = 69.46

[Lv 18] 128.5 atk (includes madreds) vs 185 armor (after 15 armor pen)
128.5 * 100 / (100 + 185) = 45.09

[Lv 18] 137.05 atk (includes madreds and runes) vs 100 armor
137.05 * 100 / (100 + 100) = 68.53

[Lv 18] 137.05 atk (includes madreds and runes) vs 200 armor
137.05 * 100 / (100 + 200) = 45.68
[/collapse]
Summary (armor pen left, flat ad right):

Against Light armor champ
[Lv 1] 42.38 vs 44.21
[Lv 5] 48.29 vs 49.28
Lv 18] 69.46 vs 68.53

Against Heavy armor champ
[Lv 1] 35.60 vs 37.89
[Lv 5] 41.24 vs 42.80
Lv 18] 45.09 vs 45.68


TL;DR - Flat AD reds on Teemo, when compared to armor pen reds, gives you +1/+2 damage output at early levels and -1/+0 damage output at level 18.

 

[Omni]

no love for the Heal? seems like its gonna be your own pocket Soraka ult

 

[Z'zgashi]

Who is it John?

 

[john!]

cass

but i haven't played her in solo q yet, just normals. all i have to do is make sure derpadin gets banned and i win my lane

and there's an EXTREMELY infuriating bug where she fires her gaze the wrong way if you flash->ult

 

[JTB]

http://www.absolutelegends.eu/news/369/Moma-joins-SKGaming

loooooooooooooooooooool

 

[Mogwai]

streaming: http://www.own3d.tv/live/82457

ran into s2j in queue, let's see what happens

 

[JTB]

lol, do you run into icetee alot? he was the gp in our game

 

[DanGR]

Surely they'll nerf bruisers across the board if they plan on buffing cleanse and nerfing flash...

 

[fkacyan]

Surely they'll nerf bruisers across the board if they plan on buffing cleanse and nerfing flash...

And people will feel so bad when the autoattackers lose to champions that require more than a-moving.

ohwait

 

[UTDZac]

and there's an EXTREMELY infuriating bug where she fires her gaze the wrong way if you flash->ult

It's your mouse cursor. The game buffers where you cursor is when you press flash and ult. I saw Orion rage about this on stream. He "afk-ed" at fountain waiting for his ult to come up and test it. He said it had something to do with your mouse cursor before/after the flash.

 

[DanGR]

And people will feel so bad when the autoattackers lose to champions that require more than a-moving.

ohwait

yeah uh... ive no idea what champs/roles you're talking about.

 

[fkacyan]

yeah uh... ive no idea what champs/roles you're talking about.

When you said "them ashes" I assumed you meant characters like Ashe / Cait / Trist which require little to no input other than autoattacking.

 

[UTDZac]

When you said "them ashes" I assumed you meant characters like Ashe / Cait / Trist which require little to no input other than autoattacking.

ashe and trist require a lot more input than just "autoattacking"

kiting can become very difficult if you dont have fast hands. very difficult.