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Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!
- Thread starter JTB
- Start date
Malphites nerfs were moderately necessary, but I am still upset that I can't jungle NEARLY as fast with him. Gotta wait an extra 4 seconds for that shield to recharge.
elementz #1 noob, Malphite is still an exceptionally strong sidelane tank. All that really got hit was his ability to hold a solo lane and his jungling, neither of which were where he really shined anyway. He's still such a crazy strong initiator with absurdly high base damage output and essentially hard counters Melee DPS with ground slam.
learn Maokai IMO, hugely underrated and plays pretty similar to malphite (high base magic damage tank) and as AoE comps are resurging in popularity, his ult keeps feeling better and better.
tarmacker
Smash Journeyman
Sweet, that's how I built him but I opened with shield. Went something like 2/3/30 or so lol normal games. What do you go for runes? I think I have mag pen/mana regen per level/mr/health quints
dont start dring on maokai, it's either shield or crystal + pots. you will run out mana really fast with a dring start and can get harassed out of lane quite easily. voidstaff on him is ... if oyur elooking for ap or some more damage then get an abyssal scepter.
50 seconds is a long time. there is no reason to get hp5 on you carries instead of arpen quints or flat ap/mpen. if youre a tank then you will not be sitting there regenning for that long. burst happens in team fights too not just late game.
malphite is significantly weaker than before the nerfs came. his strength came from his q range and damage that allowed him to get carries out of lane and that kept getting nerfed. now with the shield nerf he is limited to just duo lane. the shield nerf is pretty big. who even uses melee dps anymore?
50 seconds is a long time. there is no reason to get hp5 on you carries instead of arpen quints or flat ap/mpen. if youre a tank then you will not be sitting there regenning for that long. burst happens in team fights too not just late game.
malphite is significantly weaker than before the nerfs came. his strength came from his q range and damage that allowed him to get carries out of lane and that kept getting nerfed. now with the shield nerf he is limited to just duo lane. the shield nerf is pretty big. who even uses melee dps anymore?
uhh, mpen/armor/mres/mpen I believe.
oh yea and sometimes I get sorc shoes if merc treads don't feel necessary.
@jpak: ever since the Q range nerf I've thought Malphite was better on the sidelane with support and just farming up to a quick sunfire. He still has an obscenely strong midgame teamfight presence, but again, since the Q range nerf, he hasn't had that untouchability in laning that let him feel imba and he's still been good.
re: abyssal vs. void, depends on how much mr they're getting, but void staff on high base damage magic users still nets a gigantic increase in their damage output vs. teams that are loaded with banshee's veils.
I might be biased towards jungling and solo laning with my HP Regen assessment, but if I could only have HP Regen or Flat HP atm, I'd pick HP Regen.
and re: who runs Melee DPS, the answer is a lot of people. Tanky DPS spam might be more prominent in solo queue than in arranged games, but WHALE has been smashing face with similar lineups that would see a big dropoff in their sustained teamfight damage vs. groundslam.
oh yea and sometimes I get sorc shoes if merc treads don't feel necessary.
@jpak: ever since the Q range nerf I've thought Malphite was better on the sidelane with support and just farming up to a quick sunfire. He still has an obscenely strong midgame teamfight presence, but again, since the Q range nerf, he hasn't had that untouchability in laning that let him feel imba and he's still been good.
re: abyssal vs. void, depends on how much mr they're getting, but void staff on high base damage magic users still nets a gigantic increase in their damage output vs. teams that are loaded with banshee's veils.
I might be biased towards jungling and solo laning with my HP Regen assessment, but if I could only have HP Regen or Flat HP atm, I'd pick HP Regen.
and re: who runs Melee DPS, the answer is a lot of people. Tanky DPS spam might be more prominent in solo queue than in arranged games, but WHALE has been smashing face with similar lineups that would see a big dropoff in their sustained teamfight damage vs. groundslam.
Interesting... I used to run HP Regen Quints back when I was a fresh 30 but switched at some point when people were stressing the importance of surviving burst even at lower levels over long term regen...
Thanks for the insight.
Considering the ever increasing number of characters that have some form of healing mechanism though...
after the HP Quint nerfs, people took another look at the comparison and then attrition heroes like Irelia started to pack HP Regen Quints to just sit top forever before backing. Honestly, HP Regen was probably always quite good on solo lanes and junglers compared to Flat HP quints, but it's hard to go against 99% of the player base being convinced that something is "right."
I think strong melee DPS are unnecessarily ignored in higher levels of play.
why give malphite the farm if youre doing support + tank setup? yes his initiation is really good.
for maokaito suddenly go ap + mpen when you are supposed to go a tanky build just doesnt fit. al off his spells hv <230 dmg base unless youre counting his E which wont get the second hit off late game because it's so slow. yes he would be an excellent choice vs whale however by having maokai you need to commit to team fights, and you juts cannot commit vs whale's lineup. in order to beat them it is a split push and avoid the games have them separated.
i wouldnt say they are really melee dps, when you said that i thought yi tryn. whale is straight tanky, warwick nunu mundo amumu irelia none of them build for damage, except irelia. malphite's E would really not have any strong affect on that team. teams arent really picking correctly vs whale ie why would you try to use akali in such a tanky lineup like solomid did. or go soraka corki trying to kite 5 melee.
whale will continue to be strong for a few more tournaments until teams can actually pickup champions that will do well against them because all the "high tier" champions will not do that great of a job. most of their success is because of how irregular their team comp is.
for maokaito suddenly go ap + mpen when you are supposed to go a tanky build just doesnt fit. al off his spells hv <230 dmg base unless youre counting his E which wont get the second hit off late game because it's so slow. yes he would be an excellent choice vs whale however by having maokai you need to commit to team fights, and you juts cannot commit vs whale's lineup. in order to beat them it is a split push and avoid the games have them separated.
i wouldnt say they are really melee dps, when you said that i thought yi tryn. whale is straight tanky, warwick nunu mundo amumu irelia none of them build for damage, except irelia. malphite's E would really not have any strong affect on that team. teams arent really picking correctly vs whale ie why would you try to use akali in such a tanky lineup like solomid did. or go soraka corki trying to kite 5 melee.
whale will continue to be strong for a few more tournaments until teams can actually pickup champions that will do well against them because all the "high tier" champions will not do that great of a job. most of their success is because of how irregular their team comp is.
I really felt that I had way more staying power in lane with the HP/5's even back before the Flat nerf.
The Flats just seem more forgiving if you go all in and straight duke it out with someone. That seems to happen less and less when I play with better people. Lower level play, people loooooove going all in regardless of situation lol.
The harassing leading up to an actual engage worthy situation generally takes a significant amount of time. At least greater than 50 seconds on average...
Also... I want a Johnny Bravo Mundo skin...
Oh, ok. Yeah, straight melee DPS don't really have any place in tournament play. Too frail and easy to CC/shut down before they can do their work.
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
Question: who the heck is Whale?
Whale is a team that has Atlanta, nicosharp, guardsmanbob, jatt, smgzwy, awowa, and cirque as their main players. They run an uncommon team comp that usually involves a warwick middle and a roaming nunu if gragas is unavailable. They also use mundo, alistar, amumu, irelia, zilean, poppy, udyr, and shen.
what? in the tank + support setup bot, the tank is typically the one consuming the farm. Malphite is a strong candidate for this because his survivability and damage output scale well from him being able to build tanky quickly. having to teamfight around 3-4K gold for your carries vs. a malphite with sunfire cape is a nightmare and he'll eat you up.
maokai has 4 spells that do damage and 3 of them are AoE. Sure, the damage is lower than your standard AP carry, but that's cause he's a tank, not a carry, the fact remains that he outputs quite a bit of indiscriminate damage in teamfights via AoE and he'll be hitting a lot of high MRes targets which will benefit largely from the void staff penetration. And E is fine late game but you need to be comboing it with your rush or leading the enemy or comboing off of teammates, it's still perfectly reasonable to expect to be able to hit with the explosion.
I've been seeing them with Xin and Nocturne in their lineup semi-frequently so I was thinking of a different comp than that. you're right that malphite sucks vs. that comp
. And I agree wholeheartedly about the *********** of the akali pick and have been talking with loco on TL about how that was one of the worst possible AP carry picks possible (he says that Chaox insisted that Akali was good vs. tanks and loco gave in and let them make that pick). I honestly think teems need to start running teemo vs. Whale, teemo is crazy good at managing the type of kite/split push game that is needed vs. their comps + he can build relatively tanky for a ranged carry without sacrificing too much damage output.
Someone chose Akali against that lineup? ROFL.
do u want to out push them?
yea, good players too
I really have no idea how you can be a 2K elo player and not understand that Akali is ****ing useless vs. tanks
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Tanky teams are hard to beat in a 5v5 with traditional team comps, so you want to split push and beat them with superior mobility if possible. But if they're running Mundo and Nunu and Gragas that's easier said than done anyway.
Galio and Amumu and AoE burst team comp might actually be a good pick vs them (as long as they don't take Udyr). They're all melee so they'd get brought in close and get ***** by the rest of the ults.
Tanky DPS are usually much more effective in drawn out fights where they have time to regen and burst repeatedly, and much less so when they get wtf bursted down very fast (Cho was actually a very good choice against them, but you didn't get that early level/feed to take advantage of his increased damage and Feast).
Galio and Amumu and AoE burst team comp might actually be a good pick vs them (as long as they don't take Udyr). They're all melee so they'd get brought in close and get ***** by the rest of the ults.
Tanky DPS are usually much more effective in drawn out fights where they have time to regen and burst repeatedly, and much less so when they get wtf bursted down very fast (Cho was actually a very good choice against them, but you didn't get that early level/feed to take advantage of his increased damage and Feast).
No you can't win by pushing them, you have to have split push like tf and singed with tp if you intend to.
Because you get to 2k by playing one champion. hotshot nid, akali westrice, nothingleft2lose renekton, bruiseleet urgot, it goes onnnnnn.yea, good players too
I really have no idea how you can be a 2K elo player and not understand that Akali is ****ing useless vs. tanks
you actually might be able to beat them with a babysit Kog type lineup with somethink like Kog + Alistar + Singed + Gragas + Janna or ???? Just a bunch of dudes to keep them off the best tank-killing carry's nuts. idk, it's a tough nut to crack because if they start to get a lead with their early roaming they snowball so hard 
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Eh... would be hard. A lot of the Tanky DPS have gap closers, plus they're not going to let anyone get a lineup that strong. Kog is way too squishy for their burst
Yes my duo lane was kind of bad, renekton is strong against that team so is cho. I'm thinking of just losing an ad carry all togethe. galio is good if you have the right carry. amumu they will get. i had to stop their counterjungling nunu and we got firstblood so kind of worth it.
kog is too hard to play without support i think. i think janna would get banned as she counters their comp as a whole, and to get alistar and gragas when they hv jatt and nicosharp who play it regularly is kind of hard and your bot late will be weird.you actually might be able to beat them with a babysit Kog type lineup with somethink like Kog + Alistar + Singed + Gragas + Janna or ???? Just a bunch of dudes to keep them off the best tank-killing carry's nuts. idk, it's a tough nut to crack because if they start to get a lead with their early roaming they snowball so hard
Why not try running Jarvan as a primary/secondary tank against their team as well? Flag gives AoE armor boost to team, his knockup can't be CC-reduced, his AoE slow is pretty huge, and they're actually easy targets for his ult if they get out of position due to usually not having natural escape mechanisms, plus he has armor reduction and is good at pushing towers/clearing creeps when the opportunity presents itself.
yea, I didn't think it all out really. Maybe concede Gragas to them and then take Alistar + Singed, then take something like, hmmm, Morg might be a good choice + a disruptive jungler like Trundle or Rammus or Jarman and then just pick whichever carry with your 5th pick.
I used trundle it was okay, he didn't really have anyone to take the damage or armor away from so that was :\. rammus may be. jarvan is a really good idea still, but that gives them amumu again who i think is just soooooooo strong. may be just ban amumu
Trundle is a good choice if you have a lot of mobile characters split pushing, because if they send only one person after him he can easily 1v1 them with his ult and get away with his Contaminate should they send more, and he clears creeps like crazy, plus is pretty solid against counterjungling.
Definitely should try to avoid giving them Amumu, might even want to just take him yourself early if possible. His cry alone would make it much more difficult for them to teamfight (not including the stuns and ults).
Definitely should try to avoid giving them Amumu, might even want to just take him yourself early if possible. His cry alone would make it much more difficult for them to teamfight (not including the stuns and ults).
bans are so weird vs. them... yea, banning Amumu is probably really good but it probably forces you to concede someone else . drafting is hard, let's go shopping.
. drafting is hard, let's go shopping.
Haha, should just run a full on armor reduction team, preferably tanky themselves
I tried building Caitlyn like Teemo but with a Black Cleaver instead of a Malady and it worked really well.
Opened D-Blade and since I farmed like a boss, picked up an early kill by counterganking a Nunu, and didn't have to B for awhile, just picked up boots + BF sword on my first trip back. Then I farmed harder, got Black Cleaver, then picked up Wit's End and Frozen Mallet as my next items. To help our Udyr crap on Baron I got a Wriggle's and then a recurve bow that I never managed to turn into Bloodrazor.
I wasn't hitting extremely hard, but I chewed through their Alistar's mana like a boss and made him useless, and with ghost + flash and net I had all the mobility I could ever want. Frozen Mallet made me a huge pain in the *** too, let me tell you. Caitlyn's such easy mode farming that I didn't care how expensive my build was.
I really liked it so I'll probably play her some more and continue to try it. It's really fun gobbling up champs like Alistar and Amumu's mana and watch them realize they might as well be dead when they can't use their skills.
Opened D-Blade and since I farmed like a boss, picked up an early kill by counterganking a Nunu, and didn't have to B for awhile, just picked up boots + BF sword on my first trip back. Then I farmed harder, got Black Cleaver, then picked up Wit's End and Frozen Mallet as my next items. To help our Udyr crap on Baron I got a Wriggle's and then a recurve bow that I never managed to turn into Bloodrazor.
I wasn't hitting extremely hard, but I chewed through their Alistar's mana like a boss and made him useless, and with ghost + flash and net I had all the mobility I could ever want. Frozen Mallet made me a huge pain in the *** too, let me tell you. Caitlyn's such easy mode farming that I didn't care how expensive my build was.
I really liked it so I'll probably play her some more and continue to try it. It's really fun gobbling up champs like Alistar and Amumu's mana and watch them realize they might as well be dead when they can't use their skills.
Teh Brettster
Smash Master
AP Morde is so dumb. Semi-squish character? DFG > Ult, that character's working for me now.
Evanms
Smash Journeyman
in a game vs 5 ap champs as garen. My build was so troll but ****ing wrecked.
Sunfire -(still needed some up and arm to tank towers)
Cutlass - lolwut?? It's so pro 3 second slow+lifesteal, besides garen need a slow and some ad now anyway.
Hexdinger-pro against ap champs
Qss- hard counter morde + lux and ryze snares were annoying
IMHO cutlass should be core garen now. He needs damage to be anything other than a crud tank and you can't complain with the lifesteal adn slow. First time I had ever built that item and it *****.
Sunfire -(still needed some up and arm to tank towers)
Cutlass - lolwut?? It's so pro 3 second slow+lifesteal, besides garen need a slow and some ad now anyway.
Hexdinger-pro against ap champs
Qss- hard counter morde + lux and ryze snares were annoying
IMHO cutlass should be core garen now. He needs damage to be anything other than a crud tank and you can't complain with the lifesteal adn slow. First time I had ever built that item and it *****.
arch knight
Smash Lord
Evans why are you not fighting from the bush -.-
Evanms
Smash Journeyman
Old garen has died I'm sorry but it's true. Sunfires nerfd too hard.