• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,008
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
Click fast is how I do it or use A for attack that I sometimes use when getting chased, Right click behind you for example than A+Left click while mouse is still behind you of course and it should attack nearest thing.
Usually good to use when being chased as I said already cause I'm dumb.

Getting the mouse to click somewhere else during her auto animation is a good start for her hops. If you wanna practice orbwalking, try practicing around dragon baron or a camp like wolves or the buffs.
 
Last edited:

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
Click fast is how I do it or use A for attack that I sometimes use when getting chased, Right click behind you for example than A+Left click while mouse is still behind you of course and it should attack nearest thing. Usually good to use when being chased as I said already cause I'm dumb. Getting the mouse to click somewhere else during her auto animation is a good start for her hops. If you wanna practice orbwalking, try practicing around dragon baron or a camp like wolves or the buffs.
Gonna fool around with her in bot games to try to get the pattern down. Most noticeable issue always comes in when I build a certain amount of AS and I feel like I'm missing out a lot of potential damage by not taking advantage of the dashing to cut out the attack wind up. If I can't get it down, I'm likely going to try building a set amount of AS I'm comfortable around making her more AD build oriented than AS.

She is super fun to play. More so than Tristana when I got tired of Ashe.

Trying this out:

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1bo2nk/guide_to_easy_kiting_left_click_attack/

FML. I just literally only rely on attack move to just proc her passive after I get Battle Greaves and BoTRK.
 
Last edited:

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
This is interesting since we're talking about control setups and the like, ive always played with my ring finger on q, middle w pointer e, and my pinky rests on shift and goes up/down to tab/crtl as I need it. I always just reach over with my pointer to r, d/f, t, y, v b and p. My thumb just does space bar for camera and alt if I'm playing a pet champion. How do other people position my fingers? I realized my setup relies on a lot of reaching and stretching with my pointer finger and that's where a lot of my hand problems came from a while back.
 

jaswa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
254
Location
Sydney, Australia
This is interesting since we're talking about control setups and the like, ive always played with my ring finger on q, middle w pointer e, and my pinky rests on shift and goes up/down to tab/crtl as I need it. I always just reach over with my pointer to r, d/f, t, y, v b and p. My thumb just does space bar for camera and alt if I'm playing a pet champion. How do other people position my fingers? I realized my setup relies on a lot of reaching and stretching with my pointer finger and that's where a lot of my hand problems came from a while back.
I'm very similar; ring on Q, middle W, pointer E, R, D, F, B, pinky Shift, Ctrl, thumb Space, Alt. However, I use ring for Tab and I have shop on `~ which I use ring for. Oh, and of course pinky to SPAM ALL CHAT IN CAPS.

Edit: and I use ring for A since I kite via right-click -> A -> left-click as ADC
 
Last edited:

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,008
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
"Man watching my friend go 20/1 on skarner is silly and fun, let's see if I can get my kind in ranked as well and do the same. Need to play ranked in a week anyways before decay"


"Well, not exactly what I wanted but CLOSE ENOUGH"
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
[8:00] Black Inked Sky: sup you were annie
or someone else
[8:01] B Breezy: Next time don't act like you're so ****ing good at the game kid. You're Silver 5 for a ****ing reason. And if a smurf calls jungle let them ****ing jungle so you can get carried.
[8:01] Black Inked Sky: you never called jungle
[8:01] B Breezy: Have fun in silver ****ing ****
[8:01] Black Inked Sky: from what i saw in champ select
othrewise i would have given you the lane
[8:02] B Breezy: I said jungle pref. smurfing
you ****ing ****
goodbye
[8:02] Black Inked Sky: my bad
i missed it then
if you can read this i just have a question
why did you zhonya's twice before pressing R at the beginning of the baron fight
is that some plat strat to not be effective or to burn your tibbers duration
[8:03] B Breezy: I switched my key from tailsmen and forgot about it.
[8:03] Black Inked Sky: ok
[8:03] B Breezy: Why did a support do 3x your damage
[8:03] Black Inked Sky: because you built for it
[8:03] B Breezy: is that a silver jungle strat or something
[8:03] Black Inked Sky: early dragon cheese strat
hope your laners carry for me
but really
i didn't see you call jg in champ select
i would have switched out
[8:04] B Breezy: there is a reason i am top 10% na and you are top 90% na and below average for all players in na
[8:04] Black Inked Sky: yeah i know
i can't carry or play well
[8:04] B Breezy: No **** stop pming me now
[8:04] Black Inked Sky: but i did what i had to do early game
got the team the early dragon for the stat boosts
[8:04] B Breezy: the stat boost is **** early game btw
[8:04] Black Inked Sky: and made sure darius didn't snowball too fast into the game
[8:04] B Breezy: its literally 4 ad
[8:04] Black Inked Sky: i know but it gives the team scaling
[8:04] B Breezy: thats nothing
[8:04] Black Inked Sky: per damage item they build in the future
[8:05] B Breezy: yes but its not a big deal pre 25 mins
[8:05] Black Inked Sky: i know
[8:05] B Breezy: its basically worthless
[8:05] Black Inked Sky: i know
[8:05] B Breezy: and not building dev first if planning on going dev
is ****
[8:05] Black Inked Sky: you don't play warwick so you go for a different philosophy
yes devo is ****
if you don't rush it
[8:05] B Breezy: no its good
[8:05] Black Inked Sky: however our comp was also ****
for silver elo
[8:06] B Breezy: no
[8:06] Black Inked Sky: yes
[8:06] B Breezy: i could play leona ****ing jungle in silver and win
[8:06] Black Inked Sky: our comp was ****
not our champs
against thresh, darius, and
[8:06] B Breezy: we didnt lose because of a comp
keep thinking that and you'll stay s5
[8:06] Black Inked Sky: we didn't lsoe because of a comp
[8:06] B Breezy: goodbye
for real this time
[8:07] Black Inked Sky: i couldn't put in early jg pressure
[8:07] B Breezy: no **** you played ww
his ganks are **** pre 6
[8:07] Black Inked Sky: yeh
but
morde jg
wasn't ganking any lanes aside from yasuo who pushed in deep mid
without using his free wards for side vision
[8:07] B Breezy: he ganked bot 2x
[8:07] Black Inked Sky: i warded up river for him
[8:07] B Breezy: he died 2x
[8:07] Black Inked Sky: i know
so i cs'd his mid
[8:08] B Breezy: you just said he only ganked mid
[8:08] Black Inked Sky: he died when he pushed mid hard on the first death
no
his first death
was an exchange between him and morg
with him getting first blood
then he wanted me to gank mid when he had the lane even or pushed
but he didn't need the morg kill
he just wanted it and i was more focused on top
if he froze and cs'd he would have been fine in terms of getting gold
[8:09] B Breezy: i dont see what any of this has to do with you being ****
[8:09] Black Inked Sky: so question
why are you playing in silver
is it that toxic in plat
[8:09] B Breezy: its a fresh acc
im in promos
[8:09] Black Inked Sky: ok
[8:09] B Breezy: and its not toxic in plat
[8:09] Black Inked Sky: i see
it's toxic in silver
[8:09] B Breezy: but watching dumbass people do dumb **** then trying to defend it while spamming ****ing pings
gets me heated
because ya'll suck ****
and think you're ****ing good
[8:10] Black Inked Sky: i did what i needed to do as a warwick
and i am not good
i told you that i am ****
i am explaining to you my thought process on why i do what i do
not in order to defend myself
but to see if you will give me anything good
[8:10] B Breezy: if you know you're **** then don't try to ****ing act good in the ****ing game
[8:10] Black Inked Sky: i don't 'act good'
i communicate and try to see if that changes anything
[8:11] B Breezy: try to defend you're dumbass actions in game while ****ing spamming pings
[8:11] Black Inked Sky: dude seriously
that's a waste of time
[8:11] B Breezy: spamming pings is not communication
its annoying as ****
[8:11] Black Inked Sky: ok
i will refrain from doing that then
[8:11] B Breezy: and puts the whole team on tilt
maybe thats why you ****ing lose so much
[8:11] Black Inked Sky: team only tilted when we started losing
losing streak started about half a week ago
still trying to work around it
[8:12] B Breezy: then i have a great idea
[8:12] Black Inked Sky: team was already tilted from the start actually
[8:12] B Breezy: mute your whole team in game
and only ping when u need
it
[8:12] Black Inked Sky: you just said
pings are ****
people don't listen to pings apparently
should i have used ult as a peel - coutner engage
instead of a pick - engage
i left bot lane alone btw
because i trusted you being a smurf
not mocking you just explaining why i was never bot
yo if you can still read this
you should totally unblock me
 

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,008
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
Just skimming the post shows me how salty this kid is from all the stars.
This is why plat is such a ****fest and literally just a dirty Silver.

Also I might start streaming myself playing ranked tonight and maybe every few days, got that ranked itch cause wanna try OP skarner.
 
Last edited:

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
Skarner has a 62% win rate in diamond ATM.

This is literally pick or ban status.

Edit: riot confirmed he will get a hotfix soon, wow.
 
Last edited:

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,008
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
Yeah massively nerfed at first, then massively overbuffed without changing anything.
You can honestly prolly win a high level ranked game without runes or masteries.
 

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
You can't duel him in his krystal ****, and he never runs out of mana in them either. Its crazy
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
I can't believe how much his win rate skyrocketed, within two hours of the patch released his win rate jumped 8%.

I don't know if another champion has a higher win rate in soloQ than what he has right now.

edit: ban him or else I guess in ranked.

 
Last edited:

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
Been playing a **** ton of support Nami in norms, trying to get the lvl 5 mastery stuff. The slight buffs she got feel amazing, somehow they made my favorite champ even more fun. She's harder to catch, harder to run away from, with enough mana regeneration she basically can sit at like, 550 ms all of mid game and zip around the map roaming with the jungler. Her ult is even better as a mid fight table shifter, amazing follow up cc and gives your team 120+ms to close the gap and secure the teamfight. That's the dream, talisman+ult >5 man bubble, w one of them and e your adc.

Really like ardent on her as well, with the prevalence of all these on hit devourer junglers and on hit top lanes with new hydra, that extra magic damage on hit spread around as you bounce heals and drop your e on your yi really adds up.

She's also really fun to lane with a morde, great baby sitter, strong trades, amazing gap closer to help morde with his getting kited problem, and has tons of play potential and good at setting up ganks.


My to do list for testing is jungle voli with new hydra and warmogs. Cinder/warmogs/titanic hydra/randuins/visage/boots. Sounds dumb tbh
 

teluoborg

Smash Otter
Premium
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
4,060
Location
Paris, France
NNID
teloutre
This is interesting since we're talking about control setups and the like, ive always played with my ring finger on q, middle w pointer e, and my pinky rests on shift and goes up/down to tab/crtl as I need it. I always just reach over with my pointer to r, d/f, t, y, v b and p. My thumb just does space bar for camera and alt if I'm playing a pet champion. How do other people position my fingers? I realized my setup relies on a lot of reaching and stretching with my pointer finger and that's where a lot of my hand problems came from a while back.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who put his Trinket on T. My fingers have 3 rows of mobility between 123456, qwert and asdf and strangely I use my middle finger for 2 and 3 on the highest row while only using it for W and S on the other twos.
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
New Adaptive Armor mastery mitigates the armor loss that comes from buying both a Spirit Visage and a Banshee's Veil which are both MR items that synergize very will with Warwick's identity.
Adaptive Armor mastery is bad and I feel bad for typing this.
 
Last edited:

KRDsonic

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Charleston, West Virginia
Hah. Nah. My match history tends to be littered with bot games and ARAMs and such. I also only play summoner's rift while in a group of friends now, since I don't enjoy playing solo queue, and I always just pick fill as my role. I do try to avoid top and adc if I can though. ADC is such a frustrating role to play if you get behind, and top feels so disconnected from the rest of the team so early on.

:059:
 

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
New fiora is probably more poorly designed than old fiora

Nothing is more frustrating than winning/losing a trade vs her all based on the rng of weak spot spawns on you. Oh hey, it formed on the side facing the minion wave, guess I can't go to cs because I'll lose the trade no matter what. She still hyper carries too and the guarenteed crit makes I seem like you have to pick a high base damage character then go full tank just to stay in lane.

I killed her for first blood pre minions because she wanted to fight a trundle lvl 1 in the river, come into lane with an extra long sword and she still out damaged me. Shoulda gone cloth armor I guess? I really hate her new design.

Oh and she has an escape, cc, and a cc counter now, on top of out dueling like everyone


On the flip side, the new Rage raid boss item feels so ****ing good to use on trundle. Take some focus, ult a tank right before it pops, pop the elixir that makes you huge and beefy, all of a sudden you're an un-killable front line wall. Dead man's plate makes you close gaps better, new hydra means you don't have to sacrifice wave clear or damage to build mostly tank, feels great.

If the meta shifts back to bruisers, trundle might turn fotm.
 
Last edited:

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
New fiora is probably more poorly designed than old fiora Nothing is more frustrating than winning/losing a trade vs her all based on the rng of weak spot spawns on you. Oh hey, it formed on the side facing the minion wave, guess I can't go to cs because I'll lose the trade no matter what. She still hyper carries too and the guarenteed crit makes I seem like you have to pick a high base damage character then go full tank just to stay in lane.

I killed her for first blood pre minions because she wanted to fight a trundle lvl 1 in the river, come into lane with an extra long sword and she still out damaged me. Shoulda gone cloth armor I guess? I really hate her new design. Oh and she has an escape, cc, and a cc counter now, on top of out dueling like everyone On the flip side, the new Rage raid boss item feels so ****ing good to use on trundle. Take some focus, ult a tank right before it pops, pop the elixir that makes you huge and beefy, all of a sudden you're an un-killable front line wall. Dead man's plate makes you close gaps better, new hydra means you don't have to sacrifice wave clear or damage to build mostly tank, feels great. If the meta shifts back to bruisers, trundle might turn fotm.
Dead man's plate is being used as a core item on a lot of bruisers i.e. Irelia. However, not so much Sterak's Gage which you think would be the case given it's synergy with Sheen. I guess there's a cost inefficiency compared to going with a Frozen Heart or another comparative defensive item that gives you better stats overall in trades.

I've personally been staying away from top lane. The issue is that I've been having Dre like problems where I go even or better in lane, but don't play the matchup well enough in order to support other side lanes. I'm gradually transitioning into Irelia with Deadman's Plate and utilize TP/Homeguard flanks when I'm trying to roam.
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
This is my level 3 dragon build on Warwick. The idea is that no one watches out for an early game dragon cheese, so it's possible to do it after clearing either blue or red buffs. You may be a bit behind the enemy jungler though because it takes a bit of time in order to clear, however if no one comes to gank you then this has a 100% chance of working without you dying.





 

jaswa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
254
Location
Sydney, Australia
I like this idea, I need to make more niche rune pages for stuff like this. I like the use of masteries too, since they're mainly for early game and stuff like the hpgen and % ls is still useful later.

Is the 2MR worth it though? Like you have no MR in runes, is 2 really going to make that much of a difference? Maybe if it was all 5. Wouldn't you get more out of the 1 point by getting the crit reduction point? Or even putting it elsewhere in offensive tree.
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
I like this idea, I need to make more niche rune pages for stuff like this. I like the use of masteries too, since they're mainly for early game and stuff like the hpgen and % ls is still useful later. Is the 2MR worth it though? Like you have no MR in runes, is 2 really going to make that much of a difference? Maybe if it was all 5. Wouldn't you get more out of the 1 point by getting the crit reduction point? Or even putting it elsewhere in offensive tree.
The mastery page is flexible with the point in MR Reduction with the page being solely centered around taking the dragon and level 3 and dragon doesn't do any magic based damage. You may or may not be able to fool around with the health regen ones, however I believe that the Second Wind mastery is what allows you to close out the dragon before going back to upgrade your hunter's item. I stuck with the mastery page as is because at the point I had made the breakthrough on the page, I had run through 6-7 custom games. Please feel free to try to flex around with the mastery page. I never worked out the finer points of it.

Also as a personal preference I go for challenger's smite over stalker's blade unless I see lots of opportunity of the enemy really pushing at low health. The reason is because when you hit six, your ultimate will proc the skirmisher's sabre five times giving you 150 true damage from the smite buff and not factoring in the additional damage you would get from five procs of Infinite Duress presuming that my impression of the Warwick ult is that his ult is essentially counted as five auto-attacks which is why the Teemo Blind and Jax's Coutner Strike will negate the damage if they are active debuffs when he initiates his ultimate.
 

jaswa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
254
Location
Sydney, Australia
What about double-edge sword. As melee you'll do more dps than the dps towards you. And it'll help a bit later for killing people, since 1% more dmg to you won't matter when you dive into a situation to get killed anyways.
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
What about double-edge sword. As melee you'll do more dps than the dps towards you. And it'll help a bit later for killing people, since 1% more dmg to you won't matter when you dive into a situation to get killed anyways.
I don't use double edged sword as a mastery for personal reasons. Based on my play through of this Warwick you have so much lifesteal with the high AS of this build that you almost never lose a trade unless the enemy jungler has completed their sated and a huge gold lead. I personally don't like the double-edge mastery because the concept of putting a mastery point into receiving more damage for dealing more damage. However, it's more of a conceptual dislike than a statistical calculation of whether it's more helpful or not.

The problem with Warwick has always been on a more macro game level which is when the enemy team has a very aggressive gank oriented jungler who is camping their winning lanes because you don't have a reliable form of cc aside from the ultimate. I find that I play Warwick much better through passive assistance i.e. guessing a lot of times where the enemy jungler is going to be and just being there. There are very few circumstances where someone can actually duel you with this setup and psychologically out-trading them gives them the impression that you can't be killed and it's a waste to go ahead with the gank.

The first dragon I usually completed around 4:00~4:15. Let your laners know that you can solo it and ask them to try to apply pressure on side lanes in order for you to secure it. There's some obscene record that securing first dragon has somewhere around a 65%-75% win ratio for the team. Although it's likely that a chunk of this information comes from the mid and bot lanes outplaying their laners or having better jungler presence, I've pleasantly discovered that getting first dragon opens up the game and indirectly puts mental pressure on the enemy bot lane when they realize that you might be nearby. This could potentially be manipulated if they try to face check the dragon pit by going for a 3 v. 2. However, I haven't really thought that far ahead.
 
Last edited:

jaswa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
254
Location
Sydney, Australia
I like double-edge sword as an ADC main. For me in that role, it seems like I should increase my potential dps for more potential to take damage. For this context, if I'm taking sizable damage I'm probably going to die anyways, since mitigating damage comes more from not taking it at all via peel and positioning.

I'm skeptical about statistics that imply that getting first dragon is casually conducive to winning. It seems to me that getting dragons might just be a byproduct of the type of players who are more capable of winning, and so of course that correlation is going to show up as a bloated statistic.
 

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,008
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
Double edge sword isn't that good on ad carry at all. Doing 1.5% more damage isn't anything really, imagine you're Draven and you crit for 1k exactly. You would do 15 more damage so 1015, how is that anymore helpful to take even that little bit more damage as well, 1015?

The only thing AD carries need to change around in masteries is either 3/4 points for attack speed, 1 point in either just spell weaving or have both that and blade. 1/2 in warlord or if you should have frenzy or not (which is a point you only mess with if you're kalista anyways, so almost always 99.99% needed.
I mean, you can say warlord isn't any better just cause 1 point = 2% more AD, so if 350 you get 7 more, but that's a Dblade/400+ gold right there.

Though Kog'maw is one of the other rare cases where he doesn't benefit from warlord so it's good to actually have 0 in that to have 4 points in AS one and the spell/blade weaving since his only items most of the time is Bork/Triforce.

Runes same way for AD carry almost never need to be changed much, 9 ad reds 3 as quints 9 armor yellows, then blues switch around a bit. All 9 MR glyphs, or have 5 mr and 4 attack speed if an AS related champ (twitch Jinx etc.) 2 or 3 mana regen blues, or have 4 Attack speed AND 2 mana regen blues.
 
Last edited:

jaswa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
254
Location
Sydney, Australia
It might not be that much dmg, but what I said is true, it provides more dps. Like Cheerilee, I have a personal preference with the mastery - I think the tradeoff [however small] for dps to dmg taken is worth it in that role.

And what you said isn't really consistent. You're advocating 1 point in warlord, (which I may or may not agree with, which is irrelevant since we're talking about what you're advocating). The thing is, as you've said, 7/350 is? 2% more AD, let's assume this translates to an overall 2% dmg increase. Even more than that, warlord scales as 2/3.5/5, meaning that extra point going from 1-2/3 gives - only 1.5% dmg increase!

Now sure, you're getting that dmg increase for free without any negative factors, however, your numbers are skewed. Recall that warlord is bonus AD. Let's take a typical build of IE, BT, LW, 21 offensive masteries and AD reds (going to be even less for botrk builders, where double-edge still gives more dps)

80 + 80 + 40 + 4 + 10 (at lvl 18) + 9 = 223.

In reality, 1 extra point in warlord only gives +3AD at full build and lvl 18!

This means that 1 extra point in warlord is always less than the increased dmg component from double-edged sword, and by quite a bit more in the early game.
 
Last edited:

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,008
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
You're forgetting the name double edged sword, you also take more damage.
warlord > double edged sword.

Literally all the good players do this past gold. People realize warlord is good on ad carries, you're just hindering yourself going double edged sword.
It's like trying to theorycraft full 9 mana regen blues is better for corki or kog'maw instead of MR glyphs with some attack speed. All I'm saying on this, I know to not get into a debate with someone that has the debating icon.
 

jaswa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
254
Location
Sydney, Australia
You're forgetting the name double edged sword, you also take more damage.
I'm clearly aware of that, why bring it up?

I like double-edge ...increase my potential dps for more potential to take damage.
I have a personal preference with the mastery - I think the tradeoff [however small] for dps to dmg taken is worth it in that role.
Now, you said:

warlord > double edged sword.
This is mere assertion and ignores the objective facts I've stated. You are objectively incorrect with regard to %dmg, as going from 1 to 2 points in warlord ALWAYS does less than taking the 1 point in double edged sword. Taking the extra point in warlord nets you +0ad at the start of the game, gives you +1ad when you back and get a pickaxe or greater and you receive +3ad at full build. I DARE you to show me any viable instance where taking a second point in warlord gives you greater than or equal to 1% of your AD.

Next, you said:

Literally all the good players do this past gold. People realize warlord is good on ad carries, you're just hindering yourself going double edged sword.
It's funny, because I often take multiple points in warlord in ADC masteries... Why are 'good players past gold' relevant, in discussing the objective merits of a second point in warlord (always less than 1%dmg) versus double edge sword (always =1.5%dmg at the cost of more damage done to you). I even made this caveat in my post:
You're advocating 1 point in warlord, (which I may or may not agree with, which is irrelevant since we're talking about what you're advocating).
But you fail to make the simple distinction between what I personally take and whether I think the mastery point is good, against the comparison of advantages and disadvantages between where you put that point.

Okay, so now you go on to say:

It's like trying to theorycraft full 9 mana regen blues is better for corki or kog'maw instead of MR glyphs with some attack speed.
Yeah I will bring out my debater on this one by calling you out on your bs, how is that relevant at all? This is a blatant red herring.

Finally,

All I'm saying on this, I know to not get into a debate with someone that has the debating icon.
So basically; "I can't argue with your justification, I'm going to state my claims as fact without any counter-evidence, I'm going to pull rank on you and I don't have the balls to continue in discussion where someone disagrees with me.

You honestly just make yourself look foolish.
 
Last edited:

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,159
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
You're forgetting the name double edged sword, you also take more damage.
warlord > double edged sword.

Literally all the good players do this past gold. People realize warlord is good on ad carries, you're just hindering yourself going double edged sword.
It's like trying to theorycraft full 9 mana regen blues is better for corki or kog'maw instead of MR glyphs with some attack speed. All I'm saying on this, I know to not get into a debate with someone that has the debating icon.
How does a debator icon invalidate mathematical proof lol?


Also want to point out that conventional wisdom in high level play is wrong sometimes. For example tons of high level Zeds like Bjergsen take armour pen reds. AD reds mathematically do more damage against targets with a zhonyas until like level 14. AD reds also scale better into the lategame for dueling tanks than armour pen do. They also waveclear better and do more damage to objectives. Sacrificing flat AD for armour pen is also generally inefficient if you get Last Whisper, which is core on Zed. Armour pen reds are objectively worse on Zed both mathematically and in term of gold efficiency yet thousands of high level players take them.

So yeah, using 'this is what high level players do' as an argument doesn't work when other options are shown to be mathematically better
 
Last edited:

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,008
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
The debater icon means you people will argue to the ends of the earth till you win. It's quite annoying really.

I remember the zed discussion bout armor pen for reds or quints a year or two back.
I found and posted the vid here when that discussion was a thing and the tl;dw was basically Armor pen reds and AD quints is superior.

Though the good Zed stuff anyways is 2 AD 1 AS quint anyways. Who knows how the game or different rune pages should be now once pros play on the patch due to the armor nerfs all around the board. Just cause they're wrong sometimes doesn't mean they're never not wrong.
There's still people who think building morello's or athene's is good for Azir for example. No. The pros and other people who actually read changes know about the sorry excuse rito tried to do with "nerfing" him and to compensate the move in his passives he just needs to go nashor's now to have the attack speed and cdr he wanted.

Anyways
Doing 1.5 more damage to take 1.5 more damage from all sources, even minions, isn't worth it.
Bonus ad: Runes/Masteries Dblade at start and Pickaxe.
runes = 8.51 rounded to 9 in leagues case. Masteries gives you scaling ad with a total of 10 at level 18. But since level 1-6 whenever you get pickaxe, let's say level 6 (3.3 AD at level 6) then next is the flat 4 AD. Now to finally add the Dblade and pickaxe along with runes and masteries.

By level 6 you'll have a total of .966 AD which is 1 rounded up since league does that.
Doesn't matter much but again, more damage given never worth when you're taking the same amount as well. I rather have 3-7 extra AD than take 1.5 extra damage.
This is only 2% too, if the kind of ADC where you're allowed to go 2 points in warlord, 3.5% of that is 1.69 which is 2 more ad rounded up.

1.5 extra damage
all sources, even minions, please understand, plz

The AD role is to survive and do as much damage as possible while pray for RNGesus to be on their side, which is why the basic AD carry route is IE shiv, shiv for a bit of waveclear and since critsword gives you extra gold to start building into LW or BT.
Taking more damage even if they do 1.5% is never worth. Sometimes taking off 3% max health in defense is good and some people been switching to 10% slow reduction in the tree. Every little bit helps, and double edged sword has not been relevant for ranged anything since the change during preseason.

It's good for melee unless you wanna focus on the lower half of the offense tree like spell/blade weaving (riven ap mids like diana fizz etc.) but still warlord > DES for ad carries. No exceptions.
The bot lane in terms of solo queue is all about rush for level 2 and try to kill them immediately, if all 4 get it at the same time, but they have warlord while you have DES, guess who's gonna take more damage once the fight starts.
 
Last edited:

jaswa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
254
Location
Sydney, Australia
You did not interact with anything I said... again.

When deliberating between 1 point, you can have +1.5% dmg for +1.5% dmg taken, or <1% dmg. That's the trade-off which is a choice.
 
Top Bottom