Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[Dre89]

How are her pre6 ganks though? I don't really know Poppy too well, I've only played her twice and got stupidly fed on her both times despite having no idea what I was doing. I would just ult their carry and herioc charge them into a wall and just blow all my spells on them. I think I bought both DFG and Bortk as well lol.

I just think that for soloq, the best junglers are the ones that can do stuff pre6. Champs that can gank early, and/or 1v1 or 2v2 pre6, because to me applying pressure as early as possible is the best way to 'carry' as a jungler (as opposed to playing an actual carry jungler).

Also, just wondering what people think of assassins in the top lane. I like assassins and want to start playing them more, but I want to be able to justify playing them top. I figure they'd have to be ranged or have poke like zed because they probably can't trade with bruisers in melee range.

 

[Plum]

Assassins are just better in mid in general. It's safer in mid and they are the last person you want on your team getting behind. You're more likely to have jungler help mid as well whereas top is an island most of the time. Being mid also sets you up better to roam which is critical to the assassin playstyle.

 

[Life]

Yo, come watch my friends and I suck at League. (NSFW language warning if that bothers anyone.)
http://www.twitch.tv/ginonem

 

[Dre89]

Assassins are just better in mid in general. It's safer in mid and they are the last person you want on your team getting behind. You're more likely to have jungler help mid as well whereas top is an island most of the time. Being mid also sets you up better to roam which is critical to the assassin playstyle.

I know they're better mid, but I wanna know if they can work top as well for when I don't get mid. It's kind of funny that Wukong was traditionally considered a top before his rise as a jungler, and yet he's basically an assassin with a bruiser passive and ultimate.

 

[Shaya]

Top relies on you being able to manage resources (hence pick characters without resource management), deal a hefty amount of damage without building damage (so usually you pick tanks or characters with ******** bases) and come with broken sustain mechanics (which assassins aren't meant to have).

Wu traditionally went top purely because he's a "tanky dps" but he suffers from no sustain, but comes with relatively ******** bases, hence he can win match ups.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

ashe is still solid learn how to position right and you will win team fights

 

[Dre89]

Top relies on you being able to manage resources (hence pick characters without resource management), deal a hefty amount of damage without building damage (so usually you pick tanks or characters with ******** bases) and come with broken sustain mechanics (which assassins aren't meant to have).

Wu traditionally went top purely because he's a "tanky dps" but he suffers from no sustain, but comes with relatively ******** bases, hence he can win match ups.

Once I played Wu and understood his kit I've never understood why he has been played top over mid. He's isn't really tank DPS, he's a burst caster with an AOE ult. His kit is much better designed for bursting squishies than it is for trading with bruisers, which makes him an an excellent mid because he has a gapcloser.

 

[Shaya]

Because he has no ranged wave clear, has only all in harass.

 

[Dre89]

He has sustained trades if you start flask. It takes like 2-3 trades to put a squishy in combo-ignite range.

But then again why play Wukong when you can play Jax, who is just Wukong with better stats all round. There is really no reason to play Wu over Jax unless you have Yasuo or something. People harp on about Wu's ult, but it's bad unless you're ahead because if you're not you get blown up instantly. A jax with ult can just stand in something like a Rumble ult and just casually 1v3 with no mechanics at all, I've seen it happen.

 

[Pikaville]

Yeah jax is a dumb champ.

 

[Shaya]

Wukong forces engagements. Jax gets kited.

Like, you aren't picking Wukong for the whole "i'm going to solo people 1 after the other until I get the penta".

 

[Dre89]

Jax doesn't get kited if you wait for someone to initiate or counterinitiate and don't enter the fray until everyone has blown their cds. You just have to play them like assassins, the difference is once you kill the carry you can still kill the rest of their team by yourself.

Wukong cannot engage if he's behind, that's my point. You will get blown up instantly.

 

[Shaya]

Wukong getting bonus armor/mr for the amount of enemies near by is pretty significant. And most initiators cannot initiate when they're behind otherwise they'd get blown up.
Wu forces engagements. It may not be the best engagement due to being behind or your team's positioning, but he forces it. He most definitely is able to get onto someone with significantly more ease than Jax, and has an ult that is significantly difficult to disengage from.

 

[Dre89]

His ult is actually pretty easy to disengage from if the champ has any form of mobility, because you can dash away from it inbetween his E hitting and his ult starting. That's why you need to wait for CDs to be blown first, which means it's not really an initiation.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Maybe if you're expecting it, but can you say your team will react the same? And a lot of escapes usually have start up or targeted, which I doubt you'll have time in between CD's to do. You also can't blow it on something else. You're only looking at it in one situation when multiple can arise.

 

[Espy Rose]

Dre, please stop.

 

[Zano]

no, please keep going

I need more

 

[Dre89]

Maybe if you're expecting it, but can you say your team will react the same? And a lot of escapes usually have start up or targeted, which I doubt you'll have time in between CD's to do. You also can't blow it on something else. You're only looking at it in one situation when multiple can arise.

It happens more than you would think. The amount of times I've E'd someone then immediately ulted and they've either flashed out or dashed out is quite alot. I think it might be because you may not be able to ult until the clones from E dissappear, or have at least reached their targets, but I'm not sure about that. I'm pretty sure you can't buffer it though, because I've pressed ulti whilst making contact with E and he won't ult.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpeB6Vwub2Y&list=UUsma9XZIqagUJw1GZ8lllMQ

!5:14 is a good example of what I'm talking about.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Most people aren't going to get out of it unless you blatantly telegraph a signal that you are about to do it.

 

[Shaya]

I didn't say that wu's engage is uncounterable. But it's definitely one of the best in the meta right now by far.

Also that example is a 1v1 instance. Like.... try watching wu be in every single game in LCS and see how often his ult flubs.

 

[Dre89]

I think his engage is good but I kind of think it's overrated. I find it interesting that there's been a shift towards junglers who are generally considered weak gankers pre6. Vi, Panth and Wu aren't the best pre6 gankers, although they can still do it. Lee Sin and Elise are still popular though.

On another note, maybe it's just me, but I feel like streamers like Wings get respected way too much in lane in soloq. I watch their vids to see how they play match ups with my champions, and it seems to me that the opponents are a lot more passive out of respect. I watch Wing's Rumble and a lot of the time I feel like the enemy doesn't harrass when they could, and that I would've taken harrass in that exact situation.

 

[Espy Rose]

What?
Seriously, what?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

They don't do that Dre.

If they do play passive it's not because of the person they are playing again.

 

[Player-3]

ppl play with respect because in challenger if you don't respect your opponent hes going to kill you, because everybody is good

 

[Shaya]

It's really easy to look at videos/streams and go "man if that was me/etcetcetc this would've happened instead/etc/etcetc/etc" but realistically there are always small minor nuances that you can miss out on. Resources, the way the lanes pushing, general game time (jungler-time). Usually a lot of people get away with things because they respect the opponent's ability to out trade or at least be able to trade back (which depending on many circumstances in itself). Your situations that you're getting harasssed, your enemy laner is probably thinking GONNA DAMAGE JOOO, while smarter players are having to weigh up 500 other things. Honestly, being the harasser/trade forcer in lane is a really easy way to usually be dominant in a game, because most opponent's won't be able to reciprocate reliably, and you can just assume things like outside interference won't really matter. That doesn't really last long as you start climbing, because then things like "MATCH UPS" and "ADAPTION" happen.

 

[Sunnysunny]

^

This applies to alot of fighting games as well. Lol. Often what separates a good player from a top player is knowing when and how much you can disrespect / play aggressively against your opponent, and how not to overstate your welcome doing so. In a lot of fighting games it's actually quite smart to play aggressively even if it's unsafe just to see how the opponent deals with it and if they'll attempt to challenge it, or proceed to play passively.

Sometimes this game just feels like a big game of chicken.

 

[Plum]

Patheon isn't a strong ganker pre six?
what world do I live in then

 

[JTB]

this season feels so hard compared to the past, 27-35 in ranked and im sitting at the bottom of d5 all week

might just be support popularity blowing up and being unable to get support every game now :\

 

[Life]

this season feels so hard compared to the past, 27-35 in ranked and im sitting at the bottom of d5 all week

might just be support popularity blowing up and being unable to get support every game now :\

I don't know about your ranking, but the proliferation of professional streamers means that noobs are a lot harder to stomp early game.

 

[victra♥]

this season feels so hard compared to the past, 27-35 in ranked and im sitting at the bottom of d5 all week

might just be support popularity blowing up and being unable to get support every game now :\

yeah its odd, i usually play fill and most of the time it seems like top is the least preferred role (at least in silver elo)

 

[Dre89]

Plum- Panth can gank pre6 (I said they can still gank pre6) but Panth is one of those junglers who likes to rush 6 to get global pressure.

They don't do that Dre.

If they do play passive it's not because of the person they are playing again.

I should have clarified I'm talking about streamers playing negative match ups, not things where their champion has early kill potential, like Leblanc or something.

I've watched many streamers play Rumble vs Renekton, who Rumble loses lane to pretty convincingly, at least pre5 anyway. Like even if you get a kill people often still like to buy armour instead of rushing something like a Haunting Guise because Renekton is just that strong. A lot of the time the streamer hardly gets harrassed at all by Renekton and is allowed to keep up in CS, whereas if that was LCS the Renekton would have 10+ CS lead (like he does against everyone else).

To give you a specific example, Rumble's are taught to just farm caster minions with E because you're weak early and you have to extend too far to auto attack them. However I've seen streamers be allowed to walk up and auto them with no punishment, which wouldn't happen in the LCS and I can guarantee wouldn't happen if that was me walking up to auto attack that CS. This is against champions like Renekton, who heavily out trade Rumble early, and cannot die to Rumble pre4 unless he stands in Rumble's minion wave for like 4 seconds or something.

 

[Pikaville]

It's because top is incredibly boring, unless like me you don't just stick to the meta of Renek/Mundo/Shyvana/Trundle. I play a lot of Jayce/Soraka/Jax and even Velkoz these days. I've actually got Renekton but have never played him because I think he is gay.

I've only got 5 champs left to get and I have them all. Only champion I've ever bought using RP is Zyra too. (I play too much)

 

[Plum]

I'm actually surprised that top is as popular as it is. Support is actually extremely fun and rewarding with the changes to vision and their income; I think most players just still have the anti-support mentality from past seasons and aren't too willing to give support a real try.

Top lane on the other hand is just the most brutal lane imo. Honestly I even find it easier to carry as a support, just because if your support gets rolling (they had no choice but to take first blood or w/e) it translates into dragon control, and as a bonus bottom lane tower falls faster so if your bot has enough advantage to zone the enemy they can take tower very fast. On top of that a support with more gold than they know what to do with gets to buy Pinks with basically no opportunity cost which is a big advantage. So you just swing global gold and map control so far in your team's favor with a good lead as support.
Top can suck at times because if you fall behind it's honestly just best to just ignore a losing top and get mid or bot rolling; assuming you know what you're doing you just stem your own bleeding so the rest of your team can make plays elsewhere. From that position you just farm your lane at tower at get the jungle between waves and you still become an unkillable super tank so the lead your opponent has isn't even the worst thing. It's hard for your opponent to swing things in his team's favor even he tries to roam because it just leaves you to catch back up and maybe take tower.
If you get ahead your in the hardest position to carry because top lane has the least impact on the rest of the map for the same reasons it's hard for an opponent to capitalize on a lead he gets on you.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I love playing Support now, especially Lulu, she can carry games sooooo well from bot lane.

 

[Pikaville]

That's why I love playing Jax. Even if you fall behind early you WILL become god once you get BoRK and Tri-Force. My usual Jax build is those 2, Gunblade, Zephyr and either GA/Warmogs/Randuins/Bansees depending on the situation.

 

[Shaya]

I suck at support because all of my supports are ****

When will Janna be the highest skill cap, highest rewarding, best character ever again?

Frequently Asked Questions

How do I get out of elo hell?

Play Janna, nerd. lol

Who is the best support champion?

Janna (Stfu noobling1)

How do I jungle Shaco?

uhhh... this must be embarassing for you, this is a Janna guide

Why you should play Janna

• you wanna win
  
  
• your carries suck
  
  
• you don't trust anyone else

I ****ing LOVED dodge runes.

 

[Dre89]

That's why I love playing Jax. Even if you fall behind early you WILL become god once you get BoRK and Tri-Force. My usual Jax build is those 2, Gunblade, Zephyr and either GA/Warmogs/Randuins/Bansees depending on the situation.

I'm surprised Jax isn't picked/banned every LCS game, he's so strong. One thing i don't like about him is that he doesn't have proper waveclear, makes me consider getting Hyrdra on him.

 

[Shaya]

Maybe because Jax isn't competitively 'so strong'.
Look at what he's inconsistent at and analyse how critically problematic they are at LCS level.

 

[teluoborg]

It's because top is incredibly boring, unless like me you don't just stick to the meta of Renek/Mundo/Shyvana/Trundle. I play a lot of Jayce/Soraka/Jax and even Velkoz these days. I've actually got Renekton but have never played him because I think he is gay.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuude, not cool. Shunting a champion based on their sexual orientation is just plain wrong.

 

[Dre89]

Maybe because Jax isn't competitively 'so strong'.
Look at what he's inconsistent at and analyse how critically problematic they are at LCS level.

Zionspartan's Jax is consistently forcing bans now after like 2 Jax games, because he absolutely wrecked both times.

He is a good pick into passive laners like Mundo because they let him free-farm, and Zionspartan's Jax was constantly out-trading Shyvana all game, so he is a good pick into current meta picks.

It's not really debatable that Jax is competitively viable at the moment because he's forcing bans (he's also forced bans in Challenger series and EU LCS I think). My point is that he's been this strong all this time and I'm surprised he's only getting usage now.