Grab Influences - Pt. 2

[Steel]

Through further testing, this is what the GUARANTEED set ups are vs the characters that jump release. Tests were done with another person.

Wario (lol)
* Fsmash
* Usmash
* Dolphin Slash
* Fair
* Uair
* Utilt
* Ftilt
* Nair

Toon Link
* Nothing

Olimar
* Nothing

JigglyPuff
* Uair

Lucas
* Fair

Ness
* Fair
* Uair

Yoshi
* Nothing

Luigi
* Nothing

Mario
* Nothing

Meta Knight
* Fair
* Dolphin Slash
* Dash attack (?)

Squirtle (lol)
* Chain grab release
* Fair
* Dancing Blade
* Pretty much everything really, squirtle can not do anything until he actually hits the ground. You can end the grab release with a spike, basically a 0-death.

Ivysaur
* Nothing

Pikachu
* Nothing

Kirby
* Nothing

G&W
* Fair

If you discover any of these are wrong or are missing an attack let me know and I will change it if you are correct.

I really feel in the future this will be very useful. For now it is just another tool in Marth's arsenal, but I think it may eventually take off and possibly tilt certain match ups even more in our favor.

*Note: I did not test ice climbers, since you can only grab one of them the other can just hit you as you hold on to them. Though I think you can get a fair off if just popo is left.

Original thread - http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=177503

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Very nice, much appreciated.

 

[feardragon64]

I think the other thing you could note is which of these are tippered. I'm really sorry, I would normally have done this for you but I have to go out of the country in....*looks at watch*....a few hours. >>

 

[Ulevo]

Sorry Steel2nd, but I've covered all of this in my guide already, and with the proper set ups too.

Meta Knight

• Dash Attack
• Fair
• Nair
• Dair
• USmash
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

Wario

• Standard A
• FTilt
• UTilt
• Fair
• Nair
• Dair
• Uair
• FSmash
• USmash
• Dancing Blade
• Shield Breaker
• Dolphin Slash

Pikachu

• Dash Attack
• Fair
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

Squirtle

• FSmash
• USmash
• Fair
• Nair
• Dair
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

Ivysaur

• Fair
• Nair
• Dair
• Uair
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

Jigglypuff

• Fair
• Uair

Ice Climbers

• Fair
• Nair
• Dair
• Uair
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

Yoshi

• Fair

Mario

• FSmash
• Fair
• Nair
• Dair
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

G&W

• FSmash
• USmash
• Fair
• Nair
• Dair
• Uair
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

All of these work, I am 95% positive. I will test these with my friend again to make sure, but they were tested in 1/4 speed to ensure max precision and accuracy. Some of them here you missed, such as Pikachu w/ Dash Attack and the ever so difficult to land Fair. Others I think I may have made a mistake on, such as Ivysaur, since he is so **** floaty. But for the most part, I covered every attack possible, and most if not all work. I also didn't bother to mention Lucas/Ness, since Marth would just Release Grab them and then DSmash for the kill.

I think the other thing you could note is which of these are tippered. I'm really sorry, I would normally have done this for you but I have to go out of the country in....*looks at watch*....a few hours. >>

Almost every single attack you see here as a follow up can tipper. Like, it's ridiculous. You see those Fairs, FSmashes and Dairs? Yeah, you get the picture.

 

[ZHMT]

@Ulevo

I think what Steel2nd was trying to say was that if you do the select moves they cannot be avoided if timed correctly. MK can escape a Usmash by using his up b or dodging. He cannot escape a fair, db, or dolphin slash.

 

[Steel]

Those are most definitely not guaranteed. Possible sure, but not guaranteed. If you were testing against a CPU then it is not accurate. I tested with a person spamming jumps, airdodges, and DI. Some characters can jump out of it very early unlike Meta Knight and Wario.

 

[undyinglight]

Thanks for posting I have found this very useful thus far.

 

[ZHMT]

Those are most definitely not guaranteed. Possible sure, but not guaranteed. If you were testing against a CPU then it is not accurate. I tested with a person spamming jumps, airdodges, and DI. Some characters can jump out of it very early unlike Meta Knight and Wario.

Well, as long as MK is hurt by this Im happy lol.

 

[Hype]

Very nice, much appreciated.

I completely agree, this is very useful knowledge.

Edit: So basically one could chain grab release squirtle till the edge of the map, then spike him for the kill every time he get grabs at a decent percent.

edit2: can't you also chain grab meta knight. I think I saw that somewhere.

 

[Steel]

I completely agree, this is very useful knowledge.

Edit: So basically one could chain grab release squirtle till the edge of the map, then spike him for the kill every time he get grabs at a decent percent.

edit2: can't you also chain grab meta knight. I think I saw that somewhere.

Yes, you can chain grab release squirtle.

I made a vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nngWNYPT320 for chain releasing meta knight. This will only work maybe two or three times until meta knight figures out how to escape it. It's not guaranteed.

 

[Anth0ny]

Nice list. I'm guessing that you can't just grab an MK over and over against a human, right?

And lol at Wario.

 

[Steel]

Nice list. I'm guessing that you can't just grab an MK over and over against a human, right?

And lol at Wario.

Nope - I mean you can get it to work. You can see Royr doing it against Stiltz, but it's escapable.

 

[nigam]

good work steel didnt think u would have the info up this fast

 

[Ulevo]

Those are most definitely not guaranteed. Possible sure, but not guaranteed. If you were testing against a CPU then it is not accurate. I tested with a person spamming jumps, airdodges, and DI. Some characters can jump out of it very early unlike Meta Knight and Wario.

Most of them are. Things like Dash Attack on Pikachu you missed, and despite what people claim, I'm almost positive you can USmash Meta Knight. I'm going to recheck everything right now to confirm everything. For the record, you also can't DI these.

@Ulevo

I think what Steel2nd was trying to say was that if you do the select moves they cannot be avoided if timed correctly. MK can escape a Usmash by using his up b or dodging. He cannot escape a fair, db, or dolphin slash.

I know what he was saying. I purposely posted only guaranteed attacks. Some of them require very strict timing, or obscure methods of attacking, but they do work.

 

[Steel]

Most of them are. Things like Dash Attack on Pikachu you missed, and despite what people claim, I'm almost positive you can USmash Meta Knight. I'm going to recheck everything right now to confirm everything. For the record, you also can't DI these.



I know what he was saying. I purposely posted only guaranteed attacks. Some of them require very strict timing, or obscure methods of attacking, but they do work.

I'm pretty sure pikachu can jump out very early. Meta Knight CAN escape the up smash. And yes I know you can't DI the jump release.

I also have no idea how you got all those for ivysaur, mario, GW etc. There's just no way. You mentioned an obscure way of attacking, if so I'd like to know what you mean.

 

[Ulevo]

I'm pretty sure pikachu can jump out very early. Meta Knight CAN escape the up smash. And yes I know you can't DI the jump release.

I also have no idea how you got all those for ivysaur, mario, GW etc. There's just no way. You mentioned an obscure way of attacking, if so I'd like to know what you mean.

You know, I'm not sure what I was on or how the hell I got those results. I'm almost positive they worked last time, and I'm pretty thorough with testing. We all make mistakes though, my apologies. This is the list I just confirmed, and the deconfirmed ones. The rest work.

Meta Knight

• Dash Attack
• Fair
• Nair
• Dair (Deconfirmed)
• USmash (Deconfirmed )
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

Wario

• Standard A
• FTilt
• UTilt
• Fair
• Nair
• Dair
• Uair
• FSmash
• USmash
• Dancing Blade
• Shield Breaker (I think I posted this by accident. Deconfirmed)
• Dolphin Slash

Pikachu

• Dash Attack (Deconfirmed. I waz stoopid.)
• Fair (Very close, but deconfirmed)
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash (Deconfirmed)

Squirtle

• FSmash
• USmash
• Fair
• Nair
• Dair
• Dancing Blade
• Shield Breaker (Confirmed, must have missed this.)
• Dolphin Slash

Ivysaur

• Fair
• Nair
• Dair (Deconfirmed)
• Uair
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

Jigglypuff

• Fair (Deconfirmed)
• Uair (Deconfirmed)

Ice Climbers

• Fair
• Nair
• Dair (Deconfirmed)
• Uair
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

Yoshi

• Fair (Deconfirmed)

Mario

• FSmash (Deconfirmed)
• Fair
• Nair (Deconfirmed)
• Dair (Deconfirmed)
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

G&W

• FSmash (Deconfirmed)
• USmash (Deconfirmed
• Fair
• Nair (Deconfirmed)
• Dair (Deconfirmed)
• Uair (Deconfirmed)
• Dancing Blade
• Dolphin Slash

 

[Steel]

How do you get dancing blade for some of these characters. Are you referring to jumping and doing forward b in the air? Most of them can jump way before they hit the ground and thus can't be hit with it.

 

[Ulevo]

How do you get dancing blade for some of these characters. Are you referring to jumping and doing forward b in the air? Most of them can jump way before they hit the ground and thus can't be hit with it.

With Meta Knight and Pikachu, you simply have to run and use it. It comes out on Frame 4 like Fair, but Marth doesn't suffer the lag from having to jump, so it works. Mario and G&W can all be caught by Fair fairly easily, Dancing Blade is just stricter timing. The rest should be self explanatory.

Wario can be hit with a lot more than you posted, so I'm not sure why you neglected to mention the other moves such as the Dair. Jigglypuff cannot be hit period. I'm not sure how either of us got that in the first place.

And when I said obscure ways, I was referring to things like Foxtrotting the FSmash, which for some reason I thought worked.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

interesting, i swore up-smashed worked and i obviously didn't know what i was doing


idiot

 

[Ulevo]

interesting, i swore up-smashed worked and i obviously didn't know what i was doing


idiot

Oh hey, it's my favorite smasher. How goes it?

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

ulevo i don't have any serious problem with you



i do however, have a problem with anyone passing information off to a COMMUNITY of smashers, a large on at that (also quite susceptible in some cases), without 100% verifying it first.


next time you go parading techniques around make sure they actually work

 

[Emblem Lord]

Get your *** to tournies plzkthnx bai

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

me and meep just went to a tourney 2 days ago where we hard to marth ditto in round 3 (gay) and i lost to two metaknights one of which i had to play on lylat cruise and up-bd under the stage twice (gay)

 

[Steel]

Retested - some of those still don't work Ulevo. I don't know how you got them.

 

[Ulevo]

ulevo i don't have any serious problem with you



i do however, have a problem with anyone passing information off to a COMMUNITY of smashers, a large on at that (also quite susceptible in some cases), without 100% verifying it first.


next time you go parading techniques around make sure they actually work

I like your attempt at justifying your bull****. I don't have an issue with you provided you don't spam needlessly, but that's because I don't care. If you have a problem with mistakes I make regarding something I'm attempting to contribute, you'll help the COMMUNITY a lot faster by correcting me or pointing out flaws rather than spouting garbage. And I do attempt to verify my findings correctly. That's why they're called mistakes.

Retested - some of those still don't work Ulevo. I don't know how you got them.

Can you point them out, because I checked most of these with proper human reaction in 1/4 speed. Maybe you're evading them somehow that I'm not thinking of (I've tried Jumping, Air Dodging, Up B, Aerials), or I might just have achieved better results with the slower speed.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

not all of those work, especially not up-smash on metaknight.. wtf? fix this immediately

You obviously don't know what you're doing. If you hit with the hitbox inside Marths model from a Hyphen Smash, you can hit Meta Knight before he can react from this.

interesting

 

[Ulevo]

Congrats. You managed to correct me once. You're on the right track, don't let me down soldier.

Anyway, I'm done bickering. If you feel like correcting me anymore than you have, you're free to do so. And I have a thread you'll be interested with regards to Meta Knight, so stay tuned.

 

[∫unk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dYpnd_9TFs

awwww ya

 

[Ulevo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dYpnd_9TFs

awwww ya

Junk, you just won the thread. I lawled hardcore.

I'm going to bed before I go sleep deprivation takes a more ******** form.

 

[Steel]

Bump for reference.

 

[Remzi]

Is all that still accurate Steel?

 

[Steel]

Yeah I believe so.

I need to make sure dash attack is a for sure on MK and I also need to retest the fair on GW.

 

[Remzi]

Ok. I've never heard about the fair on GW, so I'll have to try that out myself.

 

[VietGeek]

Yeah, you should test that. I think for GnW you have to buffer forward DI and make a fullhop rising Fair. You have to hit with a 'perfect tip,' or at least a slender part of the hitbox if you don't want them to get out.

But really though, the GnW set-up is so hard to actually execute in tourney. <_<

Test a lonely Popo too please. ^_~

 

[Steel]

There are also some characters where you can get an un-tippered DS... but the knock back is so weak you'll easily get punished so it's not really even worth mentioning in the list.

 

[Remzi]

I suppose you should still mention it, but leave a side note telling that it's probably wise to not use it.

As for Popo, cmon the guy is already ****ed over enough when he is by himself as it is, do we really need a grab release? =P

 

[TheRazaman]

You sure the fair is absolutely guaranteed on MK regardless of percentage?

Only reason I ask is because if you watch this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JmklgxOfNM) from about 1:50 to 2:15 Marth tries the grab release to fair on MK twice and misses both times.
If that were guaranteed then the Marth would have ended up winning the tournament b/c in the final match he grabbed MK twice but didnt go for release to fair on account of missing several times throughout the finals.

It could have just been timing in this case, but it still makes me a bit skeptical when taking into consideration the skill level of the Marth player (and MK player).

 

[Steel]

I've watched that vid. He mistimed his dash/jump both times.

 

[GPEternity]

how do you do the grab release fair? is it simple dash -> sh fair or is there more to it? i ask because that exact same thing happens to me where i barely miss the fair. should i dash longer or do i need to start the dash faster after the release?

 

[VietGeek]

As for Popo, cmon the guy is already ****ed over enough when he is by himself as it is, do we really need a grab release? =P

No, I wanna keep placing 5th.