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[Fizzle_Boy]

Hahaha mk makes me sad. But you gotta do what you gotta do to get the win.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I didnt get to use D3 really. Way too many Metaknights this weekend. I didnt even attempt it as D3.

 

[Mister Eric]

Hellu Dedede Boards, you might be seeing me a lot here in the next little while asking questions about your character and how they perform on a certain stage.
Character boards seem to cycle through incomplete MU threads to new ones in hope to update them and finally complete them. This is the R.O.B. Boards attempt at completing a sufficient stage-discussion thread and I'm going to try my best to get accurate and thorough information, but I'll need your help. This will be the only question with an introductory. I just wanted to say hello and let you know that if you guys need info on anything for R.O.B. don't hesitate asking. ^_^

Anywho!

Q: How does Dedede fair off on Delfino Plaza in general and against R.O.B.. Why is it good or bad? What can Dedede abuse and what might possibly annoy you that R.O.B. can do on this stage? On a scale of 1 - 10, what do you see Dedede's chances of doing well on this stage against R.O.B. 1 being the worst for you 10 being the best.

thanks guys =]
<beep3

 

[Enzo]

Does DDD have a chaingrab on Marth

 

[Technodeath]

If you check the chaingrab thread and such, it says there is. It's just very hard.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Does DDD have a chaingrab on Marth

Yes, but it has to be Shield-Canceled and nearly frame perfect or else he can Dolphin Slash out of it. It's difficult to get down at first but if you want to be able to chaingrab him, Diddy, Peach, Toon Link and a few others its a necessity. Its almost always better to Shield Cancel grab for CGs instead of dash grab (except in a few instances like with Snake).


@MisterEric:

This is one of our best stages in general against people we CG and ROB really isn't an exception.

Why?

Our means of killing are facilitated by the stages various shifts. The main dangers for ROB being that we can walk off CG > death if you allow us to grab you on that phase. Our Up-Tilt also kills very early on various parts of the stage.

Also it could be pretty difficult for ROB to camp on certain parts of the stage. I mean he already has to camp DDD and keep out of the grab **** range and it seems harder on this stage. Gyro doesnt keep its stage control presence with the stage changing so much so all ROB has is lasers at that point. They're pretty easy to Powershield after youve seem them enough. And with the stage changing so much its inevitable that there will be aerial fights. I think D3 fairs better in this department with his Back Air.

I would say that against ROB DDD fairs very well here. I'd consider it as a CP for sure. The walk off CG is enough to entice many DDDs in doing so. Against ROB I'd rate this an 8. We have early kills on this stage and ways of avoiding your only way of keeping us out of your face. I'd avoid this if I were a robot.

 

[Mister Eric]

Thanks a beepton, beepo!
If anyone else has something they want to throw in about this MU on DP, please feel free =D
It would be greatly appreciated<3

 

[Laem]

lately ive been reluctant to dthrow lightweights
they always seem to be safe when they just DI up so there's no tech chase
Now i've considered that chaingrabbing might be a possibility here but haven't got that to work so far.
Any1 got any confirmation(perhaps frame data?) regarding how safe DI up (often followed by airdodge > land) is?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Options from DI upward is entirely dependent on the character who's trying to avoid being tech chased.

Like Game and Watch can always Up-B away from you if he DIs up to avoid the ground. Honestly if you think they're going to DI up, poke them with an F-Tilt for the safest option.

I would assume airdodge is punishable though. We could like dash attack them and I have done it before on people attempting that. Its great since it has startup lag and its hitbox usually hits people trying to airdodge to land. I don't think the opponent is ever not in a bad position after getting grabbed by us we just have to read them properly.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

laem, just dthrow>ftilt. However, dthrow>ftilt is not guaranteed on; kirby, jigglypuff, squritle, luigi. Just be mindful that non CG abbles CAN tech the dthrow, if they do? Regrab!

If they fall over, start your tech chase. Just wait very patiently for movement and react to their roll/get up decision as SOON as you see movement



Ideas for dthrow follow ups on Kirby/Jigglypuff;

try Dthrow>small step ftilt/dtilt on kirby
try grab>pummel release>regrab>throw or grab>pummel release to dtilt on jigglypuff

idea for dthrow follow ups on luigi/squirtle;

try Dthrow>tech chase on squirtle.
for both luigi and squirtle you can dthrow>ftilt them if they're about to fall off a platform

obvi these are not guaranteed on these 4. So be careful

 

[Laem]

Better just bthrow xD

 

[Dark 3nergy]

w/e works for u broski

 

[WingBr]

Hey can you guys clarify one thing for me? What is the best way to chaingrab marth (and the best way to chaingrab overall): the one where you press shield and press a to grab (known as Sheild Canceled grab in the co18 guide) or the one where you press shield, wait a moment and then press a so dedede don't slide when he grabs (Dashing Shield Grab)? Thanks in advance.

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

Same thing, and if you wait a moment, Marth will up-b you.

 

[WingBr]

Same thing, and if you wait a moment, Marth will up-b you.

There is a difference: In the first one, dedede slides after grabing, in the second case, he don't slide. So this is my question, which one is better?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

If you're trying to CG Martha and you're sliding then you're doing a Dash grab and you're going to eat a Dolphin Slash. You just want a regular Shield Canceled Grab and it pretty much has to be spot on in timing. Buffer your dash after the D-Throw, then Shield Grab. Learning to get the Shield Grab out as the soonest frame is tricky for beginning DDDs but learn it...or eat a Dolphin Slash

 

[Dark 3nergy]

WingBr,

For marth you have to practice on him alot to get the CG down consistently because you have to frame perfect the CG.

Grab a lv 9 cpu marth, get on DDD. Go to final d and practice Shield canceled grabs on marth there. Start at one end of final d, grab marth then begin. The key to getting it right is buffering the dash correctly during the dthrow animation. Its not very easy to do, so your gonna mess up alot. Dont get frustrated, you have to sit and think about how your buffering the dash.

@ Technical, i talked to some marths in md/va and they said they prefer walking away then dolphin slashing.


I also find CG marth on wifi literally impossible to do due to input delay >.> so gl there

 

[AlexoftheAura]

Lucarios are going to be discussing the D3 matchup soon in the lucario metagame irc and we need your input on the matchup.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283638

Edit: With MLG going on we decided to postpone this discussion.

 

[abhishekh]

@Dark, how do you know if you're doing it right?

---

I've been trying to try the standing chaingrab infinite on Mario, and I can do it by just mashing the grab button, but every so often I pull up my shield and it stuffs the whole thing up. Any idea what to do?

Also, are there any recent videos of DDDs versing characters like marth or snake or mario or something? I couldn't see a video thread on the main page ;o.

 

[7Claus]

Mash faster (sad but true)... Or learn the true timming :D

 

[Ammonium]

I have a question, which characters can you infinate on halberd? I did it for like 8 throws to a snake in friendlies and wonder if it works on other chars as well?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

WingBr,

For marth you have to practice on him alot to get the CG down consistently because you have to frame perfect the CG.

Grab a lv 9 cpu marth, get on DDD. Go to final d and practice Shield canceled grabs on marth there. Start at one end of final d, grab marth then begin. The key to getting it right is buffering the dash correctly during the dthrow animation. Its not very easy to do, so your gonna mess up alot. Dont get frustrated, you have to sit and think about how your buffering the dash.

@ Technical, i talked to some marths in md/va and they said they prefer walking away then dolphin slashing.


I also find CG marth on wifi literally impossible to do due to input delay >.> so gl there

Makes sense it would put him in a better position unless we really needed to get us off him..or off the stage.

 

[7Claus]

I have a question, which characters can you infinate on halberd? I did it for like 8 throws to a snake in friendlies and wonder if it works on other chars as well?

Also works on Captain Falcon (tested it myself), probably Ganondorf too...

 

[JOE!]

Is there a Frame Data thread floating around?

I saw frame data in the ultimate guide, but it seemed to only show the frames the moves hit and not the durations?

 

[∫unk]

what should i strike vs snake in the 9 stage strike system? what stages should i avoid/ban?

 

[BadKarma]

When tourneys have the no infinite rule with king dedede.
If I do the slow walk cg on dk is that considered a infinite even though it has to end at the end of the stage? Because I got in trouble once for doing the slow walk to bowser.

 

[∫unk]

^ depends on what tournament.

do it to a player in the same region as you then dq them for pausing for extra style points.

 

[BadKarma]

Lol that's too good. But with my luck I would get a set up with infinite replays lol

 

[Technodeath]

what should i strike vs snake in the 9 stage strike system? what stages should i avoid/ban?

Would you be able to show me the stage list? I could probably tell you, same with Technical Chase.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Oh if only I had seen this sooner.

Always ban Halberd, Battlefield and if the Snake is super campy, Final Destination. You WANT, Delfino, Castle Siege and PS1. Lylat, SV, and Yoshi's are in between in my opinion. Actually Yoshi's favor Snake more (he's not great on the stage but still) than us.

 

[Coney]

i disagree on halberd. we have a wall infinite on the ship itself, and there's little place for him to escape to. try to take him there.

ban lylat, battlefield. yoshi's is a preference. final destination is a preference. delfino, siege and, to a lesser extent, PS1 benefit us.

final d = maybe
battlefield = no
yoshi's = maybe
lylat = no
smashville = neutral

delfino = yes
siege = yes
ps1 = maybe
halberd = yes

basically, just pick more liberal starters rather than the conservative ones. we deal with dynamism better than him.

 

[∫unk]

yeah i got to ps1 the last snake i played and i don't really like snake on ps1 it's okay but it's just a lot of space/walled off areas for them to camp

everyone strikes sv vs me

 

[Dark 3nergy]

for characters that excel with multiple platforms i typically strike BF/lylat off the bat, and ban really platform heavy counter pick stages[character dependent]

 

[BadKarma]

i disagree on halberd. we have a wall infinite on the ship itself, and there's little place for him to escape to. try to take him there.

Where is this wall on the ship? Is durring the time the stage is changing?

 

[Zwarm]

Where is this wall on the ship? Is durring the time the stage is changing?

You can do it while the stage is actually on the ship. Like, the entire time it's on the ship. The little lip on both sides acts sort of like an invisible wall, and with proper spacing, it can be used to wall infinite people. I don't know the exact spacing myself, I just know it exists. Someone should make a video of it if there isn't one already.

 

[Technodeath]

I'm pretty sure, it's on either side of the ship, before the ledge.

You know where the ship opens and closes for the platform, at either end of that, there's like a small lip or something, that snake gets caught on, and you can chainthrow him forever using it. Until the stage changes.

If I'm wrong, correct me.



EDIT - Ninja'd

 

[SASSY]

coney on a crewmate's account

yeah that's it, the spacing is tough and tbh you probably won't even get it, but even just the threat of a grab is enough to scare him. it's like a walk-off on delfino or siege; you probably won't get it, but it's good to have in your pocket

and if you DO get it, you can bthrow into a bomb! YOWZA!

 

[Bees!]

What are D3's worst MU's? bad MUs? moderately bad?
I guess I could say
what MUs does D3 not **** face at?

 

[Coney]

in this order...

worst (65-35 or approaching so) - mk [falco, ice climbers]...people debate whether falco or ICs are worse but really, they're both really ****ty
bad (disadvantage but not absurd) - olimar...used to be thought of as a hard counter, not really anymore
contested (some say even, some say they counter) - pikachu, zero suit samus, diddy, fox...there's dissent in opinions.

i throw diddy in there, though i'm apparently the only one that thinks so. might just be a bad matchup but at the highest levels of play, i feel like diddy shuts down all of our options.

everything else, though, is either even or in our favor. keep in mind that top list isn't just my opinion--i think ddd/zss is even, as is ddd/fox, but i'm just trying to give the general view here.

 

[Bees!]

K thanks Coney! Just figuring out secondaries vs D3.