"Gold" character listing and discussion

[Yeroc]

You know, I may have missed something in this discussion, but isn't zard's upB already DIable? Maybe I'm not sure of what you're asking for, but I can see definitive differences between upB while holding forward and upB without direction. Actually *trys something*, it seems you can actually start to hold back after the upB starts rising, and move slightly backwards from where you were going. You end up straight above where you started. Isn't this what you wanted? It's there, just work out the details.

 

[shanus]

You know, I may have missed something in this discussion, but isn't zard's upB already DIable? Maybe I'm not sure of what you're asking for, but I can see definitive differences between upB while holding forward and upB without direction. Actually *trys something*, it seems you can actually start to hold back after the upB starts rising, and move slightly backwards from where you were going. You end up straight above where you started. Isn't this what you wanted? It's there, just work out the details.

i think they want more control of di, not whays already there

 

[Yeroc]

That's not necessary then, imo. Particularly not with the FD wall changes. Back when we were voting, the language used in the vote (make Zard's upB DIable) leads one to believe it's static. So I thought "oh sure, give him some wiggle room, that's ok." But seeing just how much it can be altered already, I don't think he needs any more. It already moves as much or more than, say, Mario's upB, and goes farther, plus he can glide and has 2 rejumps.

 

[omegablackmage]

Corey - your right about being able to di the up b close to vertical. What i noticed upon further inspection is how he moves himself directly after the up b finishes. He literally pushes himself forward, which can make it awkward to aim when aiming for the ledge from the front, but actually impossible from behind. Try being under any ledge (directly under) and be facing away from the stage. Then try to up b and grab it, its not possible because he shoves himself too far away.

while the fd ledge fix will help him there a bit, he still cant grab the ledge from below it. If its at all possible to take out this random shove he does and give him better di options directly after the up b, i think we'll be in business.

Also, would a little more vertical grab range hurt? I'm thinking its not actually possible to sweetspot against say marth's fsmash because charizards wings poke up so high during the up b. Whats everyone's thoughts on this?

 

[Shell]

Looking at the animation, after the rise he does a little fall/float forwards that's programed into the animation.

I could probably remove or at least adjust this if you all agreed that's what you wanted.

 

[JCaesar]

That sounds like the ideal fix.

 

[shanus]

Windowl figured out that if you change set air/ground (10) to in air, it makes a lot of B moves DIable now.

 

[Yeroc]

FFable too or no?

 

[shanus]

no


10nos

 

[Plum]

So... adjusting all the character's camera values ala Viet?
I went and found them and played with them... and I find it to be a big improvement.

 

[VietGeek]

If someone can find a reason why editing those camera values via PSAMod or hex editor causes for Pokemon Trainer Pokes and Ind. Pokes seem to cause the game to hang, then possibly.

EDIT: Otherwise I am pretty doubtful for its inclusion. Not to mention it will look "foreign" to many people the first time around. Like all aesthetic things it'll grow on them just like those crazy hit effects when compared from Melee -> Brawl. However there will be complaints...probably, as many people don't notice a problem with Brawl's camera anyway.

 

[[TSON]]

maybe pt himself controls their cameras


that would be dumb but sakurai never seizes to amaze me

 

[shanus]

You probably need to hex in PTs attributes

 

[VietGeek]

I tried a hex editor and double-checked in PSAMod to see PSAMod's Attribute table reflected the same change I wanted. That checks out fine...

unless you mean something else.

 

[omegablackmage]

So, can we get a preview changelist of whats going into the new set? (not exact, mind you just whats planned to go in)

Im having a very difficult time following whats going on back here, because i see random threads pop up about a specific issue, and then someone posts later about a bunch of random conclusions that were made, and i can't see where these were discussed. So either people are talking a lot on aim and not really using these forums, or im just missing something...

 

[Shell]

Are you guys planning on waiting to go gold until Project M goes beta?

You may want to utilize some of our universal codes that we've (mainly shanus) been working on. Of course I'm not talking about anything like MAD or L-canceling (), but I'm sure there are other things which may interest you.

 

[shanus]

i think they are using a few of our codes.

Dead Frame
PS Buffering

I don't think any others, yet?

 

[Yeroc]

I have the dead frame code, I don't think I've got the PS buffer code yet. Shanus has most of my injections that don't conflict with codes he's using. If there are any others than I haven't even heard of them so

 

[shanus]

I don't think many of these apply to you guys:

Footstool with up taunt
Shield Endlag is now 15 frames
JC Grabs
L-canceling parts 1 and 2 (includes edge canceling)
Dead frame
MAD parts 1 and 2 (includes special fall landlag being edge canceled)
Zair has 10 frames of landlag and goes into special fall
Taunt canceling
Taunt IASA while running/dashing
Rebound now has SFX
No PS Buffer and PS Reflect
Jab Resets force standup
Ledgeteching 2.0
Link's bombs are now collidable on hit

 

[GHNeko]

Rebound? You mean when attacks clash?

 

[Shell]

There are also little character polish things that may interest you.

For example, I reworked Mario's Uair hitbox locations to function more like melee, in that they're spread out just as far, but are narrower. This allows better control of the multiple trajectories.

I've also rebuilt ganon's jab to be a shorter range but faster attack, rather than a long range crossover with extra lag. I know this is something you wanted to address at some point.

I'm also going to work on Lucas's double jump animation to make it so he can actually FF at the apex of his jump and not (annoyingly) slightly after.

....Little polish things like that.

 

[shanus]

Also our samus downB bomb explode on contact works properly with her reentering morph ball and bouncing up.

@Neko, yes.

 

[JCaesar]

No PS Buffer and PS Reflect
Jab Resets force standup
Ledgeteching 2.0
Link's bombs are now collidable on hit

Please please please Veril?

 

[GHNeko]

Dead frame
Taunt canceling
Taunt IASA while running/dashing
Rebound now has SFX
No PS Buffer
Jab Resets force standup
Ledgeteching 2.0
Link's bombs are now collidable on hit

Thissssssssss

 

[Plum]

Bomb jumping with Link... the smile on my face after seeing that is unexplainable.

 

[VietGeek]

I don't think many of these apply to you guys:

shanus still got that persuasion skill.

"Jab Resets force standup"

EDIT: kk leafgreen would kick my dreams off the irc

Plum that smile looks awfully smirk. That is the smile we should all have while we play Link then obv

 

[leafgreen386]

Er... pretty sure he meant that instead of the little bounce anim, it forces a getup. If you wait too long to do the jab reset they'll still roll or whatever.

 

[shanus]

i dont suggest you don't go for the jab reset one yet, thats a work in progress. Basically, the whole system works very differently than melee, so you actually need to reengineer every jabs knockback and trajectory for it to work

Also taunts still can't be IASA'd into out of dash yet, for some reason it breaks the transition to run subaction so it needs to be fixed for true 64 taunt cancel speed

 

[VietGeek]

Er... pretty sure he meant that instead of the little bounce anim, it forces a getup. If you wait too long to do the jab reset they'll still roll or whatever.

Sir, I have no idea what you are talking about. >_>

All I know is that Taunt Canceling is too game-breaking. Do not think I am being offensive or playful: I am serious.
Completely. Absolutely. Positively. Emphatically serious (as you know the strength of my seriousness cannot be hidden away in even a cloak).

How can you defeat Sonic if we introduce these kinds of advanced techniques? Surely you have not seen the nonsensical implications of Taunt Canceling in Smash 64?! I entreat you all...spare us from marking our own grave with such an unworldly abomination as to give Sonic...that advanced technique.






In all seriousness I am scared toward Sonic. But obv this is the least we can do to help Sonic out.

 

[Isatis]

As a Brawl+ BRoomer, I fully support Taunt Canceling's inclusion into Gold.

Spoiler

(smirk)

Would it be worth posting a sort of... file checklist? I kept mentioning this but I'm not sure if I got anywhere with it.

 

[shanus]

I would like to note that while I am perfectly happy sharing these codes, (obviously dead frame and PS Buffer, and maybe taunt cancelling), the others are kind of a large part of the staple that we would like to release as a package as part of the excitement of P:M. I would gladly give my blessing to use them after we go beta, but I wouldn't want to go releasing all of our fun new toys which are exciting about this project before we even put out the whole package.

 

[VietGeek]

Would it be worth posting a sort of... file checklist? I kept mentioning this but I'm not sure if I got anywhere with it.

I also wouldn't mind if we clean up the .gct a bit, or at least the .txt. Old codes for Shield during Dashdance which caused the game to freeze was fixed by Yeroc's revision, but both Yeroc's and the old code were active in the .gct, meaning the game still crashed if you held shield at the game's end.

Getting rid of redundant stuff would you know...be nice. =V

Also using Yeroc's Dash Cancel 3.0 code over the old 2.1 would be cool too (no longer comes with ridiculous sliding).

 

[Blinds]

Yoshi side-b is fixed. Need brainstorming help for fixing DJC Float.

 

[Yeroc]

I've cleaned up the copy of the GCT I'm storing for release. It will be sent out with the other files I'm hoarding waiting to be packaged up for Gold. I'm currently working on cleaning up the order some of my codes go in for clarity and making it easier to test additions.

 

[Veril]

Taunt canceling with Sonic would break him completely. I cannot in good conscience endorse any change that annoying.

 

[Plum]

Give Ike taunt canceling.
And then let everyone know that he fights for his friends by replacing one of his taunts.

Fair+? More like Taunt+.

 

[GHNeko]

People seem to forget the purpose of taunting. ;3

 

[shanus]

this should work better than what you have currently:

REMOVE THE LEDGETECHING CODE WHEN YOU USE THIS CODE, IT HAS IT INCLUDED


Edit: found a minor mistake, will repost when fixed

Double Edit: Fixed version:

First Red = Ledge Grab Max
Second Red = Water refresh max

No Ledgestalling or Water Stalling + Ledgeteching [Shanus, Amazing Ampharos]
4A000000 90000000
1619A700 000001B8
00000000 00000077
00000006 00000007
00000005 10000018
00000000 00000004
00000005 1000001A
00000000 00000001
00000005 10000018
00000000 000000[COLOR="Red"]03[/COLOR]
00000005 1000001A
00000000 00000000
00000005 10000018
00000000 000000[COLOR="Red"]03[/COLOR]
00000005 1000001A
00000000 000000BC
00000006 00000007
00000005 10000018
00000000 00000004
00000005 1000001A
00000002 9019A7C8
00000002 9019A7F0
00000002 9019A810
00000002 9019A840
00000002 9019A858
00000002 9019A888
00000002 9019A8A0
02010200 80fb6594
12010200 9019A728
12000200 9019A738
02010500 9019A700
00080000 00000000
12000200 9019A748
120B0100 9019A7C0
1F090100 80fbf8d4
00080000 00000000
12010200 9019A728
12000200 9019A758
120B0100 9019A7C0
02010500 9019A768
00070100 80fbc0fc
00080000 00000000
12000200 9019A748
0D000200 80fb33c4
00080000 00000000
12000200 9019A748
00070100 80FB3F0C
00070100 80FB3F14
00070100 80FB3F1C
0D000200 80fb362c
00080000 00000000
12000200 9019A748
00070100 80fb3e44
00080000 00000000
02010200 80faf314
12000200 9019A748
00080000 00000000
06fc2ab8 00000008
00070100 9019A790
06fbf914 00000008
00070100 9019A798
06fbc10c 00000008
00070100 9019A7A0
06fb343c 00000008
00070100 9019A7A8
06fb368c 00000008
00070100 9019A7B0
06fb3ebc 00000008
00070100 9019A7B8
06fc1bc0 00000008
00070100 9019A7C0
06fc1c08 00000008
00070100 9019A7C0
06fb6864 00000008
00070100 9019A7C0
06fb693c 00000008
00070100 9019A7C0
06fb6a04 00000008
00070100 9019A7C0
06fc1ca0 00000008
00070100 9019A7C0

Ledgecancelling v1.1[Yeroc, Shanus]
06586000 00000038
00000002 80586010
00000000 00000001
02010200 80FAF3EC
12000200 9019A748
08000100 80586008
02010200 80FAB64C
00080000 00000000
06FC1C58 00000008
00070100 80586000

 

[omegablackmage]

so i would like everyone to see the series of posts that i made at the top of this thread, and that charizard's up b still isn't fixed -___-