Global Character Guides - Zelda

[Kataefi]

I'd actually love if the sheik and zelda boards were a tad bit more integrated somehow. They both seem so distant.

 

[KayLo!]

question:
are we going to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that sheik does not exist, or are we going to incorperate sheik whenever it would be fitting to do so.

Obviously, the sheiks have a board too, so things like moveset would be redundant to write in both places (though they should clearly be linked at the very least.) But there will likely be times when you'll need to aknowledge that many, if not most zelda users also use sheik, so we can't act like they are discrete characters when they are so plainly linked.

I really think Zelda/Sheik deserves a separate guide with input from both the Zelda and Sheik boards.

The way I understood this one is that it's to be a guide for Zelda only.... maybe with notes here or there where Sheik might do better and links to appropriate threads, but definitely a comprehensive guide for Zelda as her own character.

I could be wrong, though. Or maybe we just haven't decided that yet.

 

[Ochobobo]

I really think Zelda/Sheik deserves a separate guide with input from both the Zelda and Sheik boards.

We should really try to organize something like that as well. Sounds like a worthy endeavor.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I really think Zelda/Sheik deserves a separate guide with input from both the Zelda and Sheik boards.

maybe, but, if that IS NOT going to happen, then this has to be a guide for Zelda/Sheik as well as for Zelda. Otherwise Zelda/Sheik gets lost in the twilight zone.

 

[KayLo!]

maybe, but, if that IS NOT going to happen, then this has to be a guide for Zelda/Sheik as well as for Zelda. Otherwise Zelda/Sheik gets lost in the twilight zone.

So the Zelda/Sheik players should make it happen, no ifs about it.

Personally, I don't think the Zelda guide should be compromised when it's perfectly doable for the Zelda/Sheik players to get together and write a separate guide or update the one that's already up. Besides that, it would be much better if there was one solid Zelda/Sheik guide posted on both boards rather than a "mostly Zelda but also kind of Zelda/Sheik" one.

Just my opinion.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

So the Zelda/Sheik players should make it happen, no ifs about it.

Personally, I don't think the Zelda guide should be compromised when it's perfectly doable for the Zelda/Sheik players to get together and write a separate guide or update the one that's already up. Besides that, it would be much better if there was one solid Zelda/Sheik guide posted on both boards rather than a "mostly Zelda but also kind of Zelda/Sheik" one.

Just my opinion.

but, as you may notice, no Zelda/Sheik board exists. And there's the rub.

 

[KayLo!]

but, as you may notice, no Zelda/Sheik board exists. And there's the rub.

We're all on the same forum..... it's not like y'all can't talk to each other, lol. Make a social group for it or something.... the PBR did it in one. Or choose to house the idea/suggestion/contribution/whatever thread on one board or the other. It's not that hard.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

We're all on the same forum..... it's not like y'all can't talk to each other, lol. Make a social group for it or something.... the PBR did it in one. Or choose to house the idea/suggestion/contribution/whatever thread on one board or the other. It's not that hard.

it just sucks in that, without simultaneously existing in both threads, it's not going to get equal traffic from both sides of the character.

 

[gm jack]

Well, certain parts of it could be done separately. Moveset and other frame data can be kept individual, and compiled at the end. ATs are again mostly specific, but some stuff like rising B moves (e.g. rising transformation) would be covered in both.

All that would leave are the tactics of using the pair, as the actual playing is separate. Could just go through each character and see if it is best to go as Sheik, Zelda or a mix. For those when it is a mix, or the line is slightly more grey, then try and get some communication between the boards for a good summary, as together than can be better than either individually.

e.g. For MK, after the GRUST opportunity has gone, Sheik could have serious killing problems, so swapping to Zelda for very defensive play unless MK wiffs something and eats a stutter stepped Fsmash. (NB. This is my approach to the matchup and I suck. Do not take it as any more than an example).

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I can try and help out with the Sheik/Zelda portion of the guide. Just let me know what I gotta do and I'll see if I can figure things out.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

As far as what things we should definitely have in place. We'll need.
-Movest Analasys thread
-Matchup thread (including strategies)
-Basic strategies/AT thread
-stage discussion thread.
-Q&A thread

of those, only moveset analysis doesn't need to be recreated separately from Zelda and Sheik's individual threads. Matchups, strategies, stages and Q&A would all be affected by whether you transform or not.

 

[KayLo!]

I'm confused as to whether you guys are still saying put this in the Zelda guide or not, but..... I'm just saying again that Zelda/Sheik should definitely go in its own separate guide. It's way too complex to be thrown in with Zelda's stuff except as a brief mention and link here and there.

Also, to get back on track with the Zelda guide, have we gotten someone to lead this project yet? We can't really move forward until someone steps up and offers to be the one to put the guide together.

C'moooon, tournament Zelda mains..... one of you has to be willing.

 

[GodAtHand]

10 more days of no one offering and I will do it. But I doubt it will look pretty.

Actually it might look pretty... but not make sense lol.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm confused as to whether you guys are still saying put this in the Zelda guide or not, but..... I'm just saying again that Zelda/Sheik should definitely go in its own separate guide. It's way too complex to be thrown in with Zelda's stuff except as a brief mention and link here and there.

it's better than not existing at all. This board's gonna look awfully cluttered with two character guides on it if they are separate.

 

[KayLo!]

it's better than not existing at all. This board's gonna look awfully cluttered with two character guides on it if they are separate.

That's what the archive thread is for. It just doesn't make sense to have a guide for Zelda + Zelda/Sheik. It'll make the guide itself cluttered and confusing, and the two are substantial enough topics to warrant separate guides.

No matter what, the two communities will have to work together, so I don't see why you're so adamant that the guides be smushed together into one.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

That's what the archive thread is for. It just doesn't make sense to have a guide for Zelda + Zelda/Sheik. It'll make the guide itself cluttered and confusing, and the two are substantial enough topics to warrant separate guides.

No matter what, the two communities will have to work together, so I don't see why you're so adamant that the guides be smushed together into one.

I'm not.

I'd rather them be separate.

I'm just cynical that it'll get done.

Whatever the case, we'll need zelda AND sheik mains for it, so it'd be silly to work on it whilst all the zelda and sheik mains are working on their own character guides, so we'll probably need to wait on those to be done first.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

That's what the archive thread is for. It just doesn't make sense to have a guide for Zelda + Zelda/Sheik. It'll make the guide itself cluttered and confusing, and the two are substantial enough topics to warrant separate guides.

No matter what, the two communities will have to work together, so I don't see why you're so adamant that the guides be smushed together into one.

If Zelda and sheik are seperate on the tier list they shouldn't have their own guides?

 

[KayLo!]

I'm not.

I'd rather them be separate.

I'm just cynical that it'll get done.

So you agreed with me the whole time, but you argued against what I said because you don't think it'll get done?

Have a little faith!

If Zelda and sheik are seperate on the tier list they shouldn't have their own guides?

....What? That's not what I said at all. I said there should be:

Zelda only guide (with brief mentions of Sheik), put together by the Zelda forum
Sheik only guide (with brief mentions of Zelda), put together by the Sheik forum
Zelda/Sheik guide that focuses on how to use them as one, put together by select members from both forums

They would all link to each other, obviously, but all three deserve their own guide. I dunno where you got that I didn't think Zelda & Sheik should have their own guides.

That being said: GodAtHand, thanks for volunteering. However, if you aren't confident that you can do the job well, I hope you don't mind if I volunteer myself as well. I have no problems with the idea of putting the guide together, and I would do it well, but I figured the community would want someone who mains Zelda.

 

[GodAtHand]

So you agreed with me the whole time, but you argued against what I said because you don't think it'll get done?

Have a little faith!



....What? That's not what I said at all. I said there should be:

Zelda only guide (with brief mentions of Sheik), put together by the Zelda forum
Sheik only guide (with brief mentions of Zelda), put together by the Sheik forum
Zelda/Sheik guide that focuses on how to use them as one, put together by select members from both forums

They would all link to each other, obviously, but all three deserve their own guide. I dunno where you got that I didn't think Zelda & Sheik should have their own guides.

That being said: GodAtHand, thanks for volunteering. However, if you aren't confident that you can do the job well, I hope you don't mind if I volunteer myself as well. I have no problems with the idea of putting the guide together, and I would do it well, but I figured the community would want someone who mains Zelda.

I think the formatting would be the hardest part for me. If it is going to be us, we can work together, I could get the pictures and you can do the formatting, then we could cooperate on the information based on knowledge and experience. Two heads are better than one! I wouldn't be able to incorporate Sheik at all to be honest with you, I have been trying to learn her but once I am offstage I am dead, she seems way more easy to gimp then Zelda.

 

[-Mars-]

I wouldn't be able to incorporate Sheik at all to be honest with you, I have been trying to learn her but once I am offstage I am dead, she seems way more easy to gimp then Zelda.

No. Simply no. She has far more options than Zelda when returning to the stage.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Far more? You mean one?

It really depends on the way you play the character imo. With Sheik you can't be predictable and try to recover as soon as you're able to move again. You need to know how your opponent is going to come at you and work around it. If they're coming in quick for a side KO, you can probably fastfall > tether. If they're going for a spike, take advantage of the lag, drop below their attack range, and then Vanish onto the stage or to the edge.

As for Zelda, you either recover onto the stage early and play it safe, or delay the recovery and hit them with the FW re-appearance (though some tether-happy characters can punish you anyway).

Sheik has more options, true, but they both ultimately have some pretty ****ty recoveries.

G@H, if you're having trouble recovering with Sheik, try playing around with her off stage. You can play against a CPU for this really, but if you have someone to play with that would work too. Just stay off stage for most of your time. Get used to how far she can get away before having to retreat back to the stage, and how low she can drop before recovering, etc...

Imo, sheik has one of the better off-stage playability's. Shes no Samus or MK, but she's still good.

 

[-Mars-]

Far more? You mean one?

No.

I mean far more as in being able to shoot needles offstage.

I mean far more as in reverse aerial needle cancel.

I mean far more as in having a chain tether with really good range as well as vanish.

I mean being able to fair at would be edgeguarders without risking not being able to get back.

I mean far more as in having a better momentum cancelling move.

I mean far more as in Vanish being far easier to sweetspot the ledge with.

I mean far more as in her tether allowing her to DI down and survive dsmashes at 200%.

There's more stuff, I just can't think of it right now.

 

[KayLo!]

How about we get back to the topic of who's going to write what in the guide...........

Let's not have this thread to turn into yet another argument. (Stopping it before it happens!)

There will be more than enough time to debate these things as we write the guides.

 

[GodAtHand]

Maybe I am just doing it wrong then...

Edit: KayLo got in my way!

 

[SinkingHigher]

Hahaha I had no intention of arguing at all. Mars made some valid points. Some I would question, but this is not the place.

Anyway, lest I seem hypocritical, just wanted to say that I'd be glad to help whoever writes the guide with whatever knowledge I've picked up, but I won't be around anymore in a month or so, so I cant do it myself.

 

[-Mars-]

Sinking is one of my alltime faves anyways.......nothing personal or anything just a good ole debate. I wouldn't really call that an argument......I mean really why would you try to stifle any type of discussion when the boards are almost dying?

 

[KayLo!]

I mean really why would you try to stifle any type of discussion when the boards are almost dying?

Because it's not on-topic.

Also, the Zelda boards aren't dying, lol. There's more discussion here than there is on the Pikachu boards (minus the death combo thread). Whether it's good discussion is debatable -- but not here.

Anymore takers for leading the guide?

 

[Darkmusician]

Because it's not on-topic.

Also, the Zelda boards aren't dying, lol. There's more discussion here than there is on the Pikachu boards (minus the death combo thread). Whether it's good discussion is debatable -- but not here.

Anymore takers for leading the guide?

I'll volunteer.

 

[Virgilijus]

I'll volunteer.

Thanks for volunteering

 

[GodAtHand]

Sweet, Now I don't have to worry about content etc. I still wanna take the pictures though lol.

 

[KayLo!]

Sweet, Now I don't have to worry about content etc. I still wanna take the pictures though lol.

Pictures for what? o.o

I already called the move analysis section, and I'm making a thread on it soon, so pictures for those are already taken care of. But I'm guessing you also mean pictures for other things, like ATs and whatnot?

 

[Darkmusician]

Thanks for volunteering

No problem. I'll do my best.

 

[Kataefi]

I'll be on the chat tonight so I can talk with you guys as to how the formatting and stuff can be set out! I have a few ideas in mind. I don't mind being an editor or whatever... I like spicing up informative data =D

 

[sniperworm]

I mean far more as in her tether allowing her to DI down and survive dsmashes at 200%.

I'm pretty sure that Sheik will be in hitstun for too long at 200% for her to save herself with her tether (Sheik's tether is a B-move, not a Zair so you'd have to wait the additional time).

Anyway, good luck with the guide. I'm around if you want my opinion on something, otherwise I'll just look it over when you guys post it (because I'm probably gonna read it once it's posted).

 

[Darkmusician]

Matt I'm probably gonna need your opinion on several things in the guide as far as tactics and options. I'll talk to you on Friday about it.

 

[Kataefi]

Kaylo when do you think you can start your moveset project thingy? Are you making a few threads for us to talk about the moves here as well?

I think frame-wise we've covered dtilt and jab quite well and we've practically discovered mucho things for dtilt and its ridiculous amounts of applications. So I suggest maybe looking into the followups and frame stuff from other moves maybe?

Let me know. Also... I'll be in the chat again tonight lol, it was dead last time! But I think it's cos of time differences =p

 

[KayLo!]

Kaylo when do you think you can start your moveset project thingy? Are you making a few threads for us to talk about the moves here as well?

Yeah, I'll post it later today. I'm about to go to sleep (at 7:30am.... I know, I know), but after I get back from getting my hair done (heyyy, I'm a girl!), I'll post the thread.

It won't be jab or dtilt!

 

[Kataefi]

Woah!... you go to bed at 7:30am??? That's really.... hardcore! kaylo I'm quite impressed =D

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, that's how I get so much random crap done..... I don't sleep.... @.@

 

[GodAtHand]

About the pictures I was talking about, I originally was gonna do that free camera thing, but I failed -_-. So whatevs! I'll just help like a normal person!

Interview today so I hopefully won't be poor anymore. Wish me luck!