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Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)

Firox

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
3,325
And again, you're discounting literally the rest of the roster for some reason. You realize that not all 89 characters were added in Ultimate, right? What you're basically saying is that characters like Mario and Pikachu aren't big deals. They've been around forever, but you're throwing them under the bus to better fit your narrative.
1999: What???!!! Mario, Pikachu, Kirby and Link in the same game???!!! What sorcery is this?!

2001: Mario, Pikachu, Kirby and Link? Cool, cool, but who are those swordsmen guys? AND MEWTWO????!!!!

2008: Yeah, whatever, but where'd Mewtwo go? Where's muh Geno and Isaac? Wait....SNAKE???!!! SONIC???!!! THE UNIVERSE IS BROKEN!!!!

2014: MORE! GIVE US MORE! MEGAMAN! RYU! CLOUD! MOOOOOOORE!

2018: WHAT?! EVERYONE IS BACK?!.....OK, we're over it. What else you got?.....K ROOL? RIDLEY??!! SIMON???!!! AAAAAHH!

2021: Ugh, all we got was Banjo, Sephiroth and that punk from Kingdom Hearts? This game is trash. If only it had any characters worth playing.... (stares blankly at 89 character roster).....ugh, how could they give us an empty character select screen? All is lost. I'm flushing the game card down the toilet....
 

Shroob

Sup?
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1999: What???!!! Mario, Pikachu, Kirby and Link in the same game???!!! What sorcery is this?!

2001: Mario, Pikachu, Kirby and Link? Cool, cool, but who are those swordsmen guys? AND MEWTWO????!!!!

2008: Yeah, whatever, but where'd Mewtwo go? Where's muh Geno and Isaac? Wait....SNAKE???!!! SONIC???!!! THE UNIVERSE IS BROKEN!!!!

2014: MORE! GIVE US MORE! MEGAMAN! RYU! CLOUD! MOOOOOOORE!

2018: WHAT?! EVERYONE IS BACK?!.....OK, we're over it. What else you got?.....K ROOL? RIDLEY??!! SIMON???!!! AAAAAHH!

2021: Ugh, all we got was Banjo, Sephiroth and that punk from Kingdom Hearts? This game is trash. If only it had any characters worth playing.... (stares blankly at 89 character roster).....ugh, how could they give us an empty character select screen? All is lost. I'm flushing the game card down the toilet....
Really, exactly this lol.
 

JarBear

It's not Tuesday John
Premium
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I can see you took the time to read the comments and didn’t make any prejudgments … wait.
 

Forthestarcapelad

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
120
1999: What???!!! Mario, Pikachu, Kirby and Link in the same game???!!! What sorcery is this?!

2001: Mario, Pikachu, Kirby and Link? Cool, cool, but who are those swordsmen guys? AND MEWTWO????!!!!

2008: Yeah, whatever, but where'd Mewtwo go? Where's muh Geno and Isaac? Wait....SNAKE???!!! SONIC???!!! THE UNIVERSE IS BROKEN!!!!
d
2014: MORE! GIVE US MORE! MEGAMAN! RYU! CLOUD! MOOOOOOORE!

2018: WHAT?! EVERYONE IS BACK?!.....OK, we're over it. What else you got?.....K ROOL? RIDLEY??!! SIMON???!!! AAAAAHH!

2021: Ugh, all we got was Banjo, Sephiroth and that punk from Kingdom Hearts? This game is trash. If only it had any characters worth playing.... (stares blankly at 89 character roster).....ugh, how could they give us an empty character select screen? All is lost. I'm flushing the game card down the toilet....
Real talk: Every time I go back to the "EVERYONE IS HERE!" trailer, or even just listen to the that original arrangement of Lifelight/the smash ultimate main theme, I still get chills.. Same with the Ridley trailer, same with the Banjo trailer. I think it IS totally reasonable to criticize some of the newer characters or to feel disappointed by them. Heck, I'm not a fan of Byleth (shocker I know) or Sephiroth on a personal level, and felt a bit disappointed by them myself (pro anime swordsman by the way)... But I think it's best to keep it all in perspective and remember what game we're playing.

Yes, Geno not making it in is heartbreaking,, especially for those who've waited so long (RIP my fallen Geno bros), and I'm honestly not so sure about next game having him, but it is what it is. I can't let that take away what Smash means to me, or how much work Sakurai and his team have put in to it. They have put themselves through the wringer to make this game as great as it can be within whatever parameters they have. To criticize or be disappointed is one thing, but to write the game off for its ADDITIONAL content that didn't even technically need to exist in the first place? Content that can mean greatly different things between two people? I can't jive with that.
 

Nabbitfan730

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
57
That has nothing to do with Ultimate

That's just how the internet's changed in general over the years. That problem isn't an Ultimate or even Smash thing, that's how it is in basically, well, everywhere.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, it's terrible, but this isn't a Smash problem, it's just that the rise of social media and anonymity gives people the ability to be ****heads. This is a social media problem.
Nah, this is definitely an Ultimate problem, or at least the amount of fanbases clashing with each other than ever be. Social Media existed since Brawl and whilst Social Media doesn't make anything better and usually worse, it was never this bad. Smash 4 memes were usually quite funny with Killager, Ridley etc and even creative ones too which a complete 180 from Ult. Case in point: Mega Man Announcement post on Twitter. The replies were generally harmless and showed surprise and excitement for said character. Recently, the post got popular and due to it, it got infested with the lame unfunny replies and memes clogging up the section which mostly were unrelated. Don't believe me, go the post and check the replies and see how recent they are.

Go on social media and ask for Geno/Crash/Rayman/Bandana Dee and characters like those and see how long you last. Stuff like that barely happened in Melee/Brawl days. One For Smash Account is even being called a Sociopath rn too. Dec 2020 with the whole Geno Debacle, our thread even got shut down.

Not to mention problems that kicked off in 2020 with Competitive Smash Players FOR Ultimate as well. You don't see that happen with Melee or Brawl players either. This definitely is an Ultimate Problem.

All this "The Lack of Geno makes Ultimates roster a failure" is such a spoiled mindset.

Being upset you didn't get you most wanted character is fine, but letting such feelings taint your entire view of the game is not. Many of you guy's admit Geno is not a likely character; so why let something you guys figured was gonna happen taint your opinion of an entire game. It's not even likely if he was in that you'd even like his playstyle. A lot of Ridley, Banjo, and K Rool Supporters don't main their most wanted after they came out; that trend would almost certainly continue here. Geno's inclusion wouldn't magically make the game more playable. He isn't even the only character Sakurai's wanted to be in Smash bros who hasn't arrived. Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, and Plusle and Minun were all planned for brawl and got even further then Geno did, but none have made it to Smash yet. The game's well being does not hinge on a 25 year old Mario RPGs side character.
Nobody is saying anything to that. The entire "journey" of this season is tainting people views of the game, not Geno and for good reason. Idk where you all getting that from. Also, no offence but speak for yourself on the playstyle. Geno would most likely be a fast Mii Gunner being a middleweight instead of heavy. Mii Gunner was my initial main for Ult so that would be cool

1999: What???!!! Mario, Pikachu, Kirby and Link in the same game???!!! What sorcery is this?!

2001: Mario, Pikachu, Kirby and Link? Cool, cool, but who are those swordsmen guys? AND MEWTWO????!!!!

2008: Yeah, whatever, but where'd Mewtwo go? Where's muh Geno and Isaac? Wait....SNAKE???!!! SONIC???!!! THE UNIVERSE IS BROKEN!!!!

2014: MORE! GIVE US MORE! MEGAMAN! RYU! CLOUD! MOOOOOOORE!

2018: WHAT?! EVERYONE IS BACK?!.....OK, we're over it. What else you got?.....K ROOL? RIDLEY??!! SIMON???!!! AAAAAHH!

2021: Ugh, all we got was Banjo, Sephiroth and that punk from Kingdom Hearts? This game is trash. If only it had any characters worth playing.... (stares blankly at 89 character roster).....ugh, how could they give us an empty character select screen? All is lost. I'm flushing the game card down the toilet....
Well when you got a subpar DLC season focusing too much on fighters with nothing but toxicity and drama in-between, what do you expect?

Yes, Geno not making it in is heartbreaking,, especially for those who've waited so long (RIP my fallen Geno bros), and I'm honestly not so sure about next game having him, but it is what it is. I can't let that take away what Smash means to me, or how much work Sakurai and his team have put in to it. They have put themselves through the wringer to make this game as great as it can be within whatever parameters they have. To criticize or be disappointed is one thing, but to write the game off for its ADDITIONAL content that didn't even technically need to exist in the first place?
ADDITIONAL content that overall didn't need to happen or at least the extent it did. It's a product being sold, not a charity and Ult already had a lot of fighters. A new mode, WoL expansion or even Online Smash Run wouldn't hurt, giving the DLC more substance and less shallow.[/QUOTE]
 
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Griselda

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
1,011
Thus far, Smash Ultimate modding is technically still in its infancy. But I've personally witnessed several breakthroughs happen myself, and I think it might be sooner than we think before we reach the same levels of intricacy that we had with Brawl.

Don't get me wrong, the Mii Gunner overhaul will more than satisfy me, but it was my dream to play as Geno (among others) in Super Smash Brothers with his own unique moveset, with his own taunts, stage, final smash etc... and the fact that I could still potentially end up getting that in a couple years is amazing, I think. Obviously, I'm not saying that the fans are all automatically better than the official dev team, but I'm honestly just grateful that we live in a world where we can see a lack of something we want in a video game.. and then just put it in with our own hands.
 

MamaLuigi123456

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
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Realm 75731
Thus far, Smash Ultimate modding is technically still in its infancy. But I've personally witnessed several breakthroughs happen myself, and I think it might be sooner than we think before we reach the same levels of intricacy that we had with Brawl.

Don't get me wrong, the Mii Gunner overhaul will more than satisfy me, but it was my dream to play as Geno (among others) in Super Smash Brothers with his own unique moveset, with his own taunts, stage, final smash etc... and the fact that I could still potentially end up getting that in a couple years is amazing, I think. Obviously, I'm not saying that the fans are all automatically better than the official dev team, but I'm honestly just grateful that we live in a world where we can see a lack of something we want in a video game.. and then just put it in with our own hands.
There's a mod called Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Championship Edition that not only changes up characters similar to a mod like Project M did, but also added Giga Bowser and Akuma as full playable characters with their own moves and animations (granted Giga Bowser's are obviously reused, but Akuma is from the ground up), with more seemingly on the way.

The day we see a full Geno moveset mod for Ultimate may come sooner than we think.
 
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Icewolff92

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,618
Wouldn't call any of this subjective but you do you.
The toxicity and all that would happen no matter who and what we would have gotten for the DLC..When I´m talking about what's subjective, I´m talking about the quality of the content for the DLC. Does it suck that Geno is a costume? Of course, it does. But the DLC would never be able to please everyone, even if Sakurai worked on the game until he died. Also about the "it already had so many fighters"... That is what Smash is all about. The selling point is the rooster, not the modes in between. There is a reason why the consensus is that it's downright pointless right now to do a new smash game unless they in some magically way managed to future-proof the third parties.
 

Shroob

Sup?
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Nah, this is definitely an Ultimate problem, or at least the amount of fanbases clashing with each other than ever be. Social Media existed since Brawl and whilst Social Media doesn't make anything better and usually worse, it was never this bad. Smash 4 memes were usually quite funny with Killager, Ridley etc and even creative ones too which a complete 180 from Ult. Case in point: Mega Man Announcement post on Twitter. The replies were generally harmless and showed surprise and excitement for said character. Recently, the post got popular and due to it, it got infested with the lame unfunny replies and memes clogging up the section which mostly were unrelated. Don't believe me, go the post and check the replies and see how recent they are.
And again, this isn't a thing isolated to Ultimate, it's just 'an internet' thing. You're trying to compare 2020/2021 Internet to 2013/2014, which is just incorrect. It's an entirely different beast.

Go on social media and ask for Geno/Crash/Rayman/Bandana Dee and characters like those and see how long you last. Stuff like that barely happened in Melee/Brawl days. One For Smash Account is even being called a Sociopath rn too. Dec 2020 with the whole Geno Debacle, our thread even got shut down.
In the Brawl and Melee days, we were locked onto mainly forums like this and 4chan to debate, and had tight moderation in case things get locked. As for the Geno Debacle in 2020, was that not because Fatman was banned for being a fake insider?

Not to mention problems that kicked off in 2020 with Competitive Smash Players FOR Ultimate as well. You don't see that happen with Melee or Brawl players either. This definitely is an Ultimate Problem.
Well no one plays Brawl, and many of these allegations started long before Ultimate was even out. I think trying to pin the actions of the players on the game itself is awful. It's not Ultimate's fault that a bunch of creeps did what they did.



Nobody is saying anything to that. The entire "journey" of this season is tainting people views of the game, not Geno and for good reason. Idk where you all getting that from. Also, no offence but speak for yourself on the playstyle. Geno would most likely be a fast Mii Gunner being a middleweight instead of heavy. Mii Gunner was my initial main for Ult so that would be cool
Subjective. I had a great time on this game's journey.


Well when you got a subpar DLC season focusing too much on fighters with nothing but toxicity and drama in-between, what do you expect?
Subjective. I found the DLC great. If you think it's whatever, that's fine, but please don't act like you're speaking the objective truth.


ADDITIONAL content that overall didn't need to happen or at least the extent it did. It's a product being sold, not a charity and Ult already had a lot of fighters. A new mode, WoL expansion or even Online Smash Run wouldn't hurt, giving the DLC more substance and less shallow.
Subjective. I severely doubt people would be freaking out over 'new modes' as much as you make it out to be. We got Home Run Contest and Stage Builder and no one really batted an eye. Smash DLC is character focused for a reason, it's what gets people excited.
 
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Icewolff92

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,618
wtf are you people even on about? How would he get into Ultimate now that development is done.
The only chance he would is through unofficial means (aka, fan modded characters, similar to P+ or Beyond includes new character)... If ForsakenM belives its gonna be through official means, then I want what he is smoking
 

Nabbitfan730

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
57
The toxicity and all that would happen no matter who and what we would have gotten for the DLC..When I´m talking about what's subjective, I´m talking about the quality of the content for the DLC. Does it suck that Geno is a costume? Of course, it does. But the DLC would never be able to please everyone, even if Sakurai worked on the game until he died. Also about the "it already had so many fighters"... That is what Smash is all about. The selling point is the rooster, not the modes in between. There is a reason why the consensus is that it's downright pointless right now to do a new smash game unless they in some magically way managed to future-proof the third parties.
Yeah but it wouldn't have lasted long if they didn't drag it out nor bring people's hopes to the moon calling it the celebration of gaming. Also you are still missing the point. It isn't about Geno either.

There is more to a game than just fighters, that's pretty shallow thinking. When one uses DLC fighter and then gets bored of it then what happens?

There is a reason why the consensus is that it's downright pointless right now to do a new smash game unless they in some magically way managed to future-proof the third parties.
64 and Melee say hi

And again, this isn't a thing isolated to Ultimate, it's just 'an internet' thing. You're trying to compare 2020/2021 Internet to 2013/2014, which is just incorrect. It's an entirely different beast.
It isn't though, otherwise it would've happen with Brawl and 4 where Social Media exists. Plus doesn't difference of dates just prove my point the Smash season was much better before than now regardless?

In the Brawl and Melee days, we were locked onto mainly forums like this and 4chan to debate, and had tight moderation in case things get locked. As for the Geno Debacle in 2020, was that not because Fatman was banned for being a fake insider?
Then maybe we should return once back where we came. Also I doubt they would shut a whole thread because one guy and even then making predictions that don't come true shouldn't even be a bannable offence anyways. Maybe they wanted to rid of the momentum of the biggest newcomer thread and one of its most prominent members? Who knows the truth really?

Well no one plays Brawl, and many of these allegations started long before Ultimate was even out.
Even then when Brawl, don't remember a scandal that bad. Also those allegations came at 2020. Pretty sure Ultimate was out since 2018


Subjective. I had a great time on this game's journey.
Then do say what made this drag a "great journey" because I wouldn't call all those things listed great but then, you did say subjective so...

Subjective. I severely doubt people would be freaking out over 'new modes' as much as you make it out to be. We got Home Run Contest and Stage Builder and no one really batted an eye. Smash DLC is character focused for a reason, it's what gets people excited.
Stage Builder is still popular but then again those are old, filler modes so no doubt it wouldn't be all the rage. I mean modes like Online Smash Run, Spirits and Squad Strike, WoL Expansion, Raid Bosses etc.

Also like I said to the other guy, there is more to a game than just characters. When Smash 6 comes out with inevitably less and less characters, what happens then? Is the game now trash for not having enough characters? Is Ult the only good game cuz characters?
 

Shroob

Sup?
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It isn't though, otherwise it would've happen with Brawl and 4 where Social Media exists. Plus doesn't difference of dates just prove my point the Smash season was much better before than now regardless?
Social media was in its infancy in Melee/Brawl days. Twitter was barely a year old during Brawl and most people still used Myspace. And again, different times, different eras. Smash 4 era =/= Ultimate's. The internet was a different beast in Smash 4 days as opposed to now, and different doesn't inherently mean worse.

Then maybe we should return once back where we came. Also I doubt they would shut a whole thread because one guy and even then making predictions that don't come true shouldn't even be a bannable offence anyways. Maybe they wanted to rid of the momentum of the biggest newcomer thread and one of its most prominent members? Who knows the truth really?
The official reason given was because they banned Fatman and didn't want any fallout. You can believe that if you want or not. As for "Returning to where we came from", yeah, no thanks, I like it here.



Even then when Brawl, don't remember a scandal that bad. Also those allegations came at 2020. Pretty sure Ultimate was out since 2018
They came out in 2020, but it wasn't like people just decided in 2020 that they'd all unanimously be sex offenders. This had been building for a long time, we just didn't know, and remember, a lot of the allegations go back for years. Again, why are you pinning the blame on Ultimate here for what the players did?



Then do say what made this drag a "great journey" because I wouldn't call all those things listed great but then, you did say subjective so...
It's entirely subjective. For example, I had a blast. I made new friends and got into series I never knew I'd like. For me, that made all this worth it. If you didn't have similar experiences, of course you'd feel different.


Stage Builder is still popular but then again those are old, filler modes so no doubt it wouldn't be all the rage. I mean modes like Online Smash Run, Spirits and Squad Strike, WoL Expansion, Raid Bosses etc.
Again, I really doubt these would get people popping off as hard as you think they would.

Also like I said to the other guy, there is more to a game than just characters. When Smash 6 comes out with inevitably less and less characters, what happens then? Is the game now trash for not having enough characters? Is Ult the only good game cuz characters?
And yet, in marketing, it's the characters that they focus on. They know what the core audience likes, and that's character reveals. As for Smash 6, who knows what'll happen, but that's years away. Not something to worry about now.
 

ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,836
Wouldn't call any of this subjective but you do you.
Ahh, I see you still can't separate game and community yet.

One last time, I will try something before ignoring you since it seems pointless. I'm asking you, what does all the bad things within the community over Ultimate's lifespan have to do with Sakurai and his dev team's hard work to make the game fun and give more content?

Didn't I already tell you that you can turn off social media and just play Ultimate with your friends and have a great time? What about that is so hard for you to accomplish? Also, you seem to only focusing on the bad in the community and not stuff like all the grateful reactions, how much everyone expresses love for Sakurai, the funny memes and wonderful art people have made (Eternal Horizons and other cute mash-ups, all the Smash comics, the mods that you can't advertise) as well as all the enjoyable content like Amiibo challenges and Stage Builder stuff.

Look, I get it: Smash Ultimate has a lot of garbo people in the community who hate on people because of the character they want. Believe me, I've been there. You can't like certain characters or be confident in them or bring up evidence that favors them without people going in on you. The thing I disagree with Shroob Shroob about is that the internet has ALWAYS been like this. I've been using it for a hot minute back when Myspace was a fledgling, and people have been using anonymity to be real pieces of work since the inception of the idea. As far as I'm concerned, social media was a mistake and humans were never ready to be actively engaged with more than the people in their local communities, but that's a different topic: the point here is that you can't let people who use the internet as a tool to bully you to feel better about themselves stop you from enjoying things.

Then again, you have a really wack list of requirements that Smash needs to meet to please you and you seem very Old Smash Purest, so you have a lot of mindsets that need adjusted for you to enjoy this amazing game. When people say that Smash can never please everyone, I keep thinking of you as an example of that, which really isn't a positive thing.

Keep in mind that I believe that Ultimate was rushed and is missing key features as well as having DLC that should have been in the base roster if they game hadn't been rushed. Even still, do I believe Ultimate is a bad game? No, it's an AMAZING game, but imagine how much more amazing it could be if it was given time like Three Houses and New Horizons.

wtf are you people even on about? How would he get into Ultimate now that development is done.
Depends on how you look at things. Regardless, your attitude reeks of pessimism, and and mostly referring to this comment of yours right here.

Some people were still irrationally clinging onto hope.
What is irrational about hoping for more major content down the line that includes your most wanted character?

Also, clinging onto hope isn't irrational in every situation, and it's something that often keeps people afloat in life.

In addition to this, continuing to root and hope for Geno to get into Smash is not irrational. I'm not sure how you don't understand this, but if enough people come forward in the coming months to say 'Yeah Ultimate was great, but it could have been better with X characters and Y modes' that conversation can then reach Sakurai and Nintendo. If they agree, who knows what could happen in the future for more content.

But if everyone says 'Yup, it's over, never getting what I want. Might as well just shut up and accept what I have' then how would Nintendo or Sakurai know people would be okay with him coming back in like, say six months or so with another pass?

EDIT: Yo Shroob Shroob I'm not sure what is happening, but we've been on the same page more often ever since we both expressed our love for Skullgirls to one another. I think it may be destiny. Anyway, would love to have some matches with ya some day.
 
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Icewolff92

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,618
There is more to a game than just fighters, that's pretty shallow thinking. When one uses DLC fighter and then gets bored of it then what happens?
Sure, but again... it's the rooster that sells, not the game modes when it comes to Smash. Why do you think there was a big deal when they revealed that everyone was returning?


Yeah but it wouldn't have lasted long if they didn't drag it out nor bring people's hopes to the moon calling it the celebration of gaming. Also you are still missing the point. It isn't about Geno either.

Sure, it would have been nice if they had revealed them all at once... But revealing them one at the time isn´t something exclusive to Smash.


64 and Melee say hi
What's about it? Those games didn´t exactly end on a massive note like Sora. Ultimate is legit the only game that has ended with a strong note. It is a game that went as all in as it possibly could. And for the record, I could care less about Sora. I never touched a KH until recently because my sis wanted me to try it, and I have barely seen any of the animated Disney movies. But that doesn´t mean I can realize how big of a deal it is that they managed to work a deal with the big mouse about him.

Also like I said to the other guy, there is more to a game than just characters. When Smash 6 comes out with inevitably less and less characters, what happens then? Is the game now trash for not having enough characters? Is Ult the only good game cuz characters?
It will bomb like crazy unless it's an M8DX styled port with some extra stuff because characters are what the casual fans (which is 99% of the player base) cares about
 
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Shroob

Sup?
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EDIT: Yo Shroob Shroob I'm not sure what is happening, but we've been on the same page more often ever since we both expressed our love for Skullgirls to one another. I think it may be destiny. Anyway, would love to have some matches with ya some day.
Hah, I'm terrible at traditional fighting games, I just supported Skullgirls because I felt a strong desire to see it succeed.
 

Penguinbowler

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Messages
140
Keep in mind that I believe that Ultimate was rushed and is missing key features as well as having DLC that should have been in the base roster if they game hadn't been rushed. Even still, do I believe Ultimate is a bad game? No, it's an AMAZING game, but imagine how much more amazing it could be if it was given time like Three Houses and New Horizons.
I agree qwith your general point that Ultimate should have had more Dev times, but saying Three Houses was good since it was "Given Time" is so wrong it's funny. That game suffers even more from being rushed then Ultimate does, and i Say this as a Fire Emblem fan. I like Three Houses, but it's not a good example of a "Game being given time". Golden Deer being literally a recycled route is kinda proof of that.
 

kiteinthesky

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
856
You know, it seems strange that we didn't really get an FPS protagonist as a fighter in any of the passes. No Master Chief, no Doomguy, nothing. That's weird. Maybe the reason why is because they use guns. That would go a long way toward answering why they didn't put Geno in Brawl or 4: they didn't want characters who use guns on the roster. Even Snake's moveset was modified to not include guns.

What I also really want to know is who made that fabulous Mallow hat from the Cacomallow leak, and where can I download the files? Because damn was that ever a good hack.
 
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Icewolff92

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,618
You know, it seems strange that we didn't really get an FPS protagonist as a fighter in any of the passes. No Master Chief, no Doomguy, nothing. That's weird. Maybe the reason why is because they use guns. That would go a long way toward answering why they didn't put Geno in Brawl or 4: they didn't want characters who use guns on the roster. Even Snake's moveset was modified to not include guns.

What I also really want to know is who made that fabulous Mallow hat from the Cacomallow leak, and where can I download the files? Because damn was that ever a good hack.
Isn´t the FPS genre extremely niche in Japan? Plus, I doubt the gun part is why Geno didn´t get in considering Mega Man or more importantly his Mii Gunner costume
 
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ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
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I agree qwith your general point that Ultimate should have had more Dev times, but saying Three Houses was good since it was "Given Time" is so wrong it's funny. That game suffers even more from being rushed then Ultimate does, and i Say this as a Fire Emblem fan. I like Three Houses, but it's not a good example of a "Game being given time". Golden Deer being literally a recycled route is kinda proof of that.
I didn't play Three Houses, I just saw it got rave reviews and assumed it was a good game. I haven't touched FE since Sacred Stones and I'm waiting for remakes and official releases of older titles before I pursue their new ones.

It was delayed twice, but it seems like maybe it could have used more time. Contrast this to Ultimate which needed more time, and couldn't get it, and yet game out as good as it did.

Just imagine Min Min (or Spring Man), Pyra/Mythra (maybe with Rex in the kit) and Byleth all in the base game! This would have opened the door for up to three more character requests, even if not all of them were ballot winners. Depending on what you believe, it's possible Hero could have been base game as well, which brings it up to four.

Would have been nice, but that's why I believe there is a good chance Furakawa (who couldn't be there until Ultimate was basically going gold and thus couldn't give Sakurai time to delay) and Sakurai (who really wants to give the community what it wants) could very much be up to something right now.
 

kiteinthesky

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It'd be nice if at some point in the future they put out another DLC series. I doubt that will happen and would feel bad for Sakurai if it did because that poor son of a ***** BADLY needs a break, but it'd still be nice as long as the developers wanted to make it happen.
 

ForsakenM

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It'd be nice if at some point in the future they put out another DLC series. I doubt that will happen and would feel bad for Sakurai if it did because that poor son of a ***** BADLY needs a break, but it'd still be nice as long as the developers wanted to make it happen.
Sakurai has been living the life throughout DLC as it's way less strain and crunch than a whole game. Every time he seemed so happy, and I know for a fact his smile and glow during Sora's presentation wasn't because he was done: it was because he got to show off to the world that he got ****ing Sora in his game.

It's more likely then you think, games have gaps in DLC all the time.
 

Icewolff92

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Sakurai has been living the life throughout DLC as it's way less strain and crunch than a whole game. Every time he seemed so happy, and I know for a fact his smile and glow during Sora's presentation wasn't because he was done: it was because he got to show off to the world that he got ****ing Sora in his game.

It's more likely then you think, games have gaps in DLC all the time.
What are you smoking? Seriously... because I would love to have some of that right now. Both Nintendo and Sakurai have made it abundantly clear that Sora is the last fighter. They never said "last fighter for now".. They said the last fighter... There was no if, this, or that... Had it been Sakurai that had stated "this is my last presentation".. then sure, maybe there could be a question if they were planning fighters without him.. But that's not the cause.
 

Megadoomer

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You know, it seems strange that we didn't really get an FPS protagonist as a fighter in any of the passes. No Master Chief, no Doomguy, nothing. That's weird. Maybe the reason why is because they use guns. That would go a long way toward answering why they didn't put Geno in Brawl or 4: they didn't want characters who use guns on the roster. Even Snake's moveset was modified to not include guns.

What I also really want to know is who made that fabulous Mallow hat from the Cacomallow leak, and where can I download the files? Because damn was that ever a good hack.
I'm not sure if that's the reason - Joker's neutral special infamously has him using Gun, and Bayonetta uses four guns at once. The ESRB seems to have lightened up since the days of Brawl in that regard.
 

Nabbitfan730

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Social media was in its infancy in Melee/Brawl days. Twitter was barely a year old during Brawl and most people still used Myspace. And again, different times, different eras. Smash 4 era =/= Ultimate's. The internet was a different beast in Smash 4 days as opposed to now, and different doesn't inherently mean worse.
"the internet has ALWAYS been like this. I've been using it for a hot minute back when Myspace was a fledgling, and people have been using anonymity to be real pieces of work since the inception of the idea. As far as I'm concerned, social media was a mistake and humans were never ready to be actively engaged with more than the people in their local communities" Exactly and even with this, Melee and Brawl seasons were much calmer despite those factors where with Ultimate with a bigger fanbase cause more harm than good. The few times I agree with you ForsakenM ForsakenM

The official reason given was because they banned Fatman and didn't want any fallout. You can believe that if you want or not. As for "Returning to where we came from", yeah, no thanks, I like it here.
I wouldn't call all those things listed likable but then, you did say subjective so....Also why was even banned in the place and well as the thread?

They came out in 2020, but it wasn't like people just decided in 2020 that they'd all unanimously be sex offenders. This had been building for a long time, we just didn't know, and remember, a lot of the allegations go back for years. Again, why are you pinning the blame on Ultimate here for what the players did?
Because you don't see this happening with Melee and Brawl players back in the day but you do with Ultimate players. Not a coincidence.

Again, I really doubt these would get people popping off as hard as you think they would.
Then you need to talk to more people. There is more to games than just characters.

And yet, in marketing, it's the characters that they focus on. They know what the core audience likes, and that's character reveals. As for Smash 6, who knows what'll happen, but that's years away. Not something to worry about now.
Sure, but again... it's the rooster that sells, not the game modes when it comes to Smash. Why do you think there was a big deal when they revealed that everyone was returning?
Because that's all they have to show. Imagine if they gave new modes the same treatment. You guys say up and down that "Smash is nothing without roster" yet why is Subspace or even Smash Run still remembered fondly to this day. I dislike the modes myself but there is a reason they are held to such high regard

as well as all the enjoyable content like Amiibo challenges and Stage Builder stuff.
I wanted to see more this like I said before but apparently its a sin to do.

Smash Ultimate has a lot of garbo people in the community who hate on people because of the character they want. You can't like certain characters or be confident in them or bring up evidence that favors them without people going in on you. The thing I disagree with Shroob Shroob about is that the internet has ALWAYS been like this. I've been using it for a hot minute back when Myspace was a fledgling, and people have been using anonymity to be real pieces of work since the inception of the idea. As far as I'm concerned, social media was a mistake and humans were never ready to be actively engaged with more than the people in their local communities,
Exactly, this "season" when looking overall at a morally, objective standpoint wasn't good. It's really weird when people just cover the ears and blindly say "LALALALALA ALL IS GOOD" when really wasn't. Fortunately "Everyone is Here" will never happen again and it's a shame Geno will never be apart of it, the silver lining, with a much reduced roster (Mostly likely Brawl-sized) the community will shrink and we can return to the Glory Days of Melee and Brawl where rooting and supporting our favorite characters is fun and exciting again and not 'Tabuu' with hopefully with our puppet boi on the helm.

Keep in mind that I believe that Ultimate was rushed and is missing key features as well as having DLC that should have been in the base roster if they game hadn't been rushed. Even still, do I believe Ultimate is a bad game? No, it's an AMAZING game, but imagine how much more amazing it could be if it was given time like Three Houses and New Horizons.
The game was rushed and definitely needed more time. Thing is, DLC season was to perfect time to remedy things but they didn't.

Regardless, your attitude reeks of pessimism, and and mostly referring to this comment of yours right here.
How is it pessimism when it's not wrong. It just looking at things at a more realistic view.

What is irrational about hoping for more major content down the line that includes your most wanted character?

Also, clinging onto hope isn't irrational in every situation, and it's something that often keeps people afloat in life.

In addition to this, continuing to root and hope for Geno to get into Smash is not irrational. I'm not sure how you don't understand this, but if enough people come forward in the coming months to say 'Yeah Ultimate was great, but it could have been better with X characters and Y modes' that conversation can then reach Sakurai and Nintendo. If they agree, who knows what could happen in the future for more content.

But if everyone says 'Yup, it's over, never getting what I want. Might as well just shut up and accept what I have' then how would Nintendo or Sakurai know people would be okay with him coming back in like, say six months or so with another pass?
This is more delusion then hope. Nintendo and Sakurai both said that Smash Ultimate has finished. Why would they lie? Especially with trademark saying all DLC must finish before December. Both parties have already moved to next projects already. It's great to have hope for Geno but let's not lie to ourselves here.

You know, it seems strange that we didn't really get an FPS protagonist as a fighter in any of the passes. No Master Chief, no Doomguy, nothing. That's weird. Maybe the reason why is because they use guns.
If you aren't a JRPG fan, the DLC passes wasn't for you. For a game called the "celebration of gaming" you think they would be more GAMING genres in the mix but I guess not. Man, Variety wasn't its strong point, visually or genre wise.
 
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Icewolff92

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Because that's all they have to show. Imagine if they gave new modes the same treatment. You guys say up and down that "Smash is nothing without roster" yet why is Subspace or even Smash Run still remembered fondly to this day. I dislike the modes myself but there is a reason they are held to such high regard
And I ask again, if the rooster wasn´t so important to Smash, then why was it a big deal when it comes to every veteran is returning?

If you aren't a JRPG fan, the DLC passes wasn't for you. For a game called the "celebration of gaming" you think they would be more GAMING genres in the mix but I guess not. Man, Variety wasn't its strong point, visually or genre wise.
This game is made by an extremely traditional Japanese studio, whose prime demographic is (and always will be) Japan... the "genre" of characters shouldn´t be that surprising for you.
 
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ForsakenM

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How is it pessimism when it's not wrong. It just looking at things at a more realistic view.



This is more delusion then hope. Nintendo and Sakurai both said that Smash Ultimate has finished. Why would they lie? Especially with trademark saying all DLC must finish before December. Both parties have already moved to next projects already. It's great to have hope for Geno but let's not lie to ourselves here.
Turns out we agree on some things, but we have different perspectives. One of us thinks Ultimate came out phenomenal all things considered and they made amazing picks the is the best Smash as ever been despite all it's flaws, and the other is Nabbitfan730.

Jokes aside, people often mistake pessimism for realism. Short and sweet, lots of people act like taking a negative view on situations in life, even when evidence suggests either a more neutral or more positive stance should be taken, is realism when in fact it is pessimism.

Acting like Geno's chances for Ultimate were dead for any other reason other than what we learned in Sora's presentation is pessimism, nothing else held him back like it did with other characters, not even his costume since it was recycled assets. Acting like his chances were never good was pessimism. Realism is what I often said when I mentioned that bigger names like Sora and Sephiroth made sense as competition and, way back when, said this about Cloud and Dragon Quest. Realism is saying that you want Geno and love him, but know that all those above names are likely to come to Smash before him.

Misplaced optimism would be those who said Sora was never competition for Geno because Disney owned Sora even though Sora is a Square-designed character, or how I thought Sephiroth wouldn't get in because Cloud represented all of Final Fantasy without realizing that he follows him where ever he goes and that Cloud had lackluster content, or when I mentioned that Geno could come with lots of content and that got mocked by I think GameFAQs or whatever.

Pessimism is saying that there will be no more Smash within the Switch's lifecycle, that it will never happen. Realism is knowing that a Switch Pro is still very likely and that porting Ultimate with extra content and another round or two of DLC would sell that console well, and how Sakurai wouldn't say no to the opportunity and how Furakawa would give him more creative freedom over who gets in so there will likely be even more fan requests, but knowing also that it might not happen even with these things. Blind optimism is '**** all that, Ultimate Deluxe for the Switch Pro LETZ GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~!' right here and now, and I gotta say I'm okay with either realism or the blind optimism right now.
 

Shroob

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Because you don't see this happening with Melee and Brawl players back in the day but you do with Ultimate players. Not a coincidence.
And you're going to blame the action of the players on the game because....? This game sold 25 million+ copies at this point. Are you going to let the sins of a small handful of scumbags affect your outlook on the game itself? What's next, are you going to tell me that Grand Theft Auto causes kids to be violent and that video games are evil?


Then you need to talk to more people. There is more to games than just characters.
And yet characters are the main selling point of every Smash game, since Brawl really. Why else do you think we get these big trailers dedicated to Skrunkus McBunkus joining the fight and not towards stuff like, Break the Targets?
 

White Frost

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And yet characters are the main selling point of every Smash game, since Brawl really. Why else do you think we get these big trailers dedicated to Skrunkus McBunkus joining the fight and not towards stuff like, Break the Targets?
Even since the first game. It was turned into Nintendo characters just so it'd sell better.

Melee also kept the Nintendo All-Stars bit. So it's there in every game, though it's more Smash speculation didn't really have much starter till Melee to begin with, and it wasn't till Brawl where it had more proper reveals(via Miiverse) that it became truly notable. Which I'm sure is more what you overall mean too.
 

Geno Boost

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apparently there is another gameplay of SMRPG that has been recorded on a japanese TV show back in 1995 during early development
its seems there are more SMRPG non 16 bit music that we havent heard before such as the Axem rangers music
also take a look at the early Geno whirl

i think it was shaped like this because Geno was originally going to use Geno whirl with his sword
 
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Nabbitfan730

Smash Cadet
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Messages
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And I ask again, if the rooster wasn´t so important to Smash, then why was it a big deal when it comes to every veteran is returning?

This game is made by an extremely traditional Japanese studio, whose prime demographic is (and always will be) Japan... the "genre" of characters shouldn´t be that surprising for you.
As yes, as no other gaming genre exists in Japan but JRPG. Japan can't make anything but JRPGs. Mario, Kirby, Metroid, Splatoon, Sonic, Monkey Ball etc all JRPGs.

Turns out we agree on some things, but we have different perspectives. One of us thinks Ultimate came out phenomenal all things considered and they made amazing picks the is the best Smash as ever been despite all it's flaws, and the other is Nabbitfan730.

Jokes aside, people often mistake pessimism for realism. Short and sweet, lots of people act like taking a negative view on situations in life, even when evidence suggests either a more neutral or more positive stance should be taken, is realism when in fact it is pessimism.

Acting like Geno's chances for Ultimate were dead for any other reason other than what we learned in Sora's presentation is pessimism, nothing else held him back like it did with other characters, not even his costume since it was recycled assets. Acting like his chances were never good was pessimism. Realism is what I often said when I mentioned that bigger names like Sora and Sephiroth made sense as competition and, way back when, said this about Cloud and Dragon Quest. Realism is saying that you want Geno and love him, but know that all those above names are likely to come to Smash before him.

Misplaced optimism would be those who said Sora was never competition for Geno because Disney owned Sora even though Sora is a Square-designed character, or how I thought Sephiroth wouldn't get in because Cloud represented all of Final Fantasy without realizing that he follows him where ever he goes and that Cloud had lackluster content, or when I mentioned that Geno could come with lots of content and that got mocked by I think GameFAQs or whatever.

Pessimism is saying that there will be no more Smash within the Switch's lifecycle, that it will never happen. Realism is knowing that a Switch Pro is still very likely and that porting Ultimate with extra content and another round or two of DLC would sell that console well, and how Sakurai wouldn't say no to the opportunity and how Furakawa would give him more creative freedom over who gets in so there will likely be even more fan requests, but knowing also that it might not happen even with these things. Blind optimism is '**** all that, Ultimate Deluxe for the Switch Pro LETZ GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~!' right here and now, and I gotta say I'm okay with either realism or the blind optimism right now.
Nintendo literally came out to investors saying a Switch Pro doesn't exist. Also why would Nintendo and Sakurai make a Smash for a Pro if games still have to work on the OG switch. The next smash will on the switch SUCCESSOR, not an upgrade that doesn't exist. Also you don't how expensive licensing was just make this game happen. Sakurai said himself it will never happen again to how hard it easy it is. This isn't just wishful thinking, this is you just lying to yourself believing anything you made up in your head. None of that is realism in the slightest. There is no more Smash this cycle. its done.

And you're going to blame the action of the players on the game because....? This game sold 25 million+ copies at this point. Are you going to let the sins of a small handful of scumbags affect your outlook on the game itself? What's next, are you going to tell me that Grand Theft Auto causes kids to be violent and that video games are evil?

And yet characters are the main selling point of every Smash game, since Brawl really. Why else do you think we get these big trailers dedicated to Skrunkus McBunkus joining the fight and not towards stuff like, Break the Targets?
What does GTA have to do with anything with my point at hand.

Also to answer the last question, Because that's all they have to show. Imagine if they gave new modes the same treatment. You guys say up and down that "Smash is nothing without roster" yet why is Subspace or even Smash Run still remembered fondly to this day. I dislike the modes myself but there is a reason they are held to such high regard.
 

Shroob

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What does GTA have to do with anything with my point at hand.

Also to answer the last question, Because that's all they have to show. Imagine if they gave new modes the same treatment. You guys say up and down that "Smash is nothing without roster" yet why is Subspace or even Smash Run still remembered fondly to this day. I dislike the modes myself but there is a reason they are held to such high regard.
Because you're trying to scapegoat. "The game had a bad event happen, thus is MUST be bad."


This is the same logic people in the early 2000's used to try to demonize video games as a whole.



And again, hard disagree. Subspace Emmisary was revealed in a random Pic of the Day in Brawl era, no trailer, nothing. You severely doubt how many people buy a multiplayer game for the singleplayer content.
 

Nabbitfan730

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Messages
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Because you're trying to scapegoat. "The game had a bad event happen, thus is MUST be bad."


This is the same logic people in the early 2000's used to try to demonize video games as a whole.


And again, hard disagree. Subspace Emmisary was revealed in a random Pic of the Day in Brawl era, no trailer, nothing. You severely doubt how many people buy a multiplayer game for the singleplayer content.
Yeah, the problem is those arguments on bad event that happen in FICTION. Ult happens in real life. Difference.



also here is the trailer.
 
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