Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

Didn't he also mention not feeling like he could add an Animal Crossing character to Brawl because they were too nonviolent? Didn't he bring up ARMS around the time Ultimate released, saying a character from the series was to recent to get added? That would be a few times now that Sakurai mentioned characters, and ended up adding them later.

Your point still stands about wanting to add characters and then never adding them, though. I understand why James Bond would be left out, but it's weird that we still don't have Mach Rider after having Wario on a bike for so long, and don't have Heihachi after they've experimented with the fighting game character archetype three times.

Yeah, I should have mentioned that under no circumstance would I expect James Bond, but Sakurai actually went as far as to start saying that the licensing was a big factor holding him back, really giving "Goku for Smash" people a leg to stand on. Thanks for bringing up Villager, definitely a character I sleep on having much in the way of "meaning" but it's true that Sakurai had them in the same boat as Villager. ARMS, I'm not so sure about, since there's a rumor that an ARMS character was planned for base but didn't make it for [reason], but I've never seen the article about it and whenever someone says "sure, let me get that for you", they link me to either Source Gaming's page about Smash rumors (which makes no mention of it) or fail to get back to me with any source.

At this rate I suppose we might as well be looking forward to a Nintendog being our Assist Trophy upgrade seeing how Sakurai said they weren't cut out for it, too.

 

[MattX20]

my problem with Waluigi is I feel he has to be a bonus character like PP. Because the only unique thing he could actually bring with him is a possible Mario Sports or Mario Kart stage. The music is still Mario and the spirits would be all Mario. With Geno there’s a whole plethora of content not present in Smash that could come from SMRPG but I don’t feel the same way about the Wah man.

I've never liked the deluxe costume argument because I feel it's settling. In Smash 4, most people absolutely dreaded the Mii costume updates because they always included at least one character that was a huge fan favorite but with Ultimate it's been a lot smarter and overwhelmingly given to characters who were a longshot to begin with. Do you have any idea how ****in' cool it is to have honest to God Cuphead and Undertale content in Smash? Sans and Cuphead being full on characters was never likely and yet they got in as Mii costumes because there was enough demand to warrant it. Someone like Geno is like K. Rool in that they got costumes in Smash 4 because that was the best they could do in such a short timeframe. THAT was a consolation prize and for a super popular character to get this twice in a row is tone deaf. If Inkling and K. Rool had been Mii costumes a second time, a good chunk of people would have been pissed and that's how I feel concerning Geno. He's consistently a top 10 character and Sakurai himself has acknowledged his popularity and history. Throw on top of this that Geno has dodged the axe for two years running and I feel like its defeatist to just be like "he's going to be a dumpy Mii costume again."

Precisely to both points. I can't see Geno coming back as a Mii Fighter costume again, especially due to his popularity and almost 2 years have past since Ultimate's release.

 

[pinshadow]

Before we get off the topic of Geno and Waluigi, I'd like to say that I don't believe Waluigi would impact Geno chances or vice versa for numerous reasons:

• We've had two characters from the same series as DLC within the same period before with Roy and Corrin during Smash 4's DLC.
• While they both come from the same series, Geno is owned by SquareEnix whereas Waluigi is owned by Nintendo.
• Waluigi isn't just any character, he's easily one of the biggest long-running fan requested characters in Smash history. I highly doubt that they'd want to limit themselves to one big fan favorite character with this pass, especially if this is going to be the last of Ultimate's DLC.
• Waluigi feels like he'd be more of a last minute bonus outside of the Fighters Pass anyways.

Funny that you mention K. Rool, because there's this post that goes into a bit of detail about this very topic.

Basically, higher-ups have a much different view of things than we do. They don't spend all day on social media or peruse Smashboards threads on the regular, because doing so will not give you a clear idea as to what characters the fans actually want on average. If you searched for Waluigi on twitter and found plenty of posts from people saying they want him in Smash, how would you be able to tell if they really want Waluigi? How can you be sure they aren't joking around or, as the kids say, "memeing"? How can you be sure, if you decide to go through the rigamarol of including Waluigi as a fighter, that you're making a correct descision that won't come back to bite you in the ass?

Instead, they have spreadsheets, they have graphs, they have pie charts, they have venn diagrams. They have cold, numerical information that can be broken down by age, race, gender, income, country, favorite soft drink, what have you, in order to determine which characters they think general audiences will be happiest with. Most if not all of the newcomers for Smash 4 were chosen this way:

• Mario is a popular series, so let's include Rosalina and Bowser Jr.
• Pokemon is a huge cash cow, so let's pencil in a Pokemon from the newest generation.
• Fire Emblem has been revitalized with Awakening, so let's add one of the protagonists from that game.
• Animal Crossing's a big everygreen title for us, so let's try to make a Villager work as a fighter this time.
• Speaking of, let's revisit the Miis as a fighter. People will love to play as Hitler!
• Kid Icarus just had a new game and has now become one of Nintendo's more well-recognized franchises, so let's add Palutena.
• People love those old retro franchises, so let's add Little Mac and Duck Hunt.
• Tons of fans loved it when we partnered with Konami and SEGA for Snake and Sonic, so let's try this same thing with Capcom and Bandai-Namco.
• So many people went out of their way to get Xenoblade Chronicles localized, so they surely must want Shulk in Smash, right?
• WiiFit Trainer. (Maybe they wanted us to lose some weight...?)
• People no doubt miss some of the older fighters who were cut, so let's include some of them back as DLC.

I think that's really overthinking things, because, incase you forgot, NINTENDO WASN'T CHOOSING CHARACTERS BEFORE ULTIMATE'S DLC, SAKURAI WAS. He has gone over his logic several times but I think this quote sums it up the best.

• “Industry trends around the time when development begins is a pretty big factor. I started development on Smash for 3DS/ Wii U right after I’d wrapped up Kid Icarus: Uprising, and Fire Emblem Awakening was released one month after Uprising. So what’s popular around the time when I begin designing the game is important. "

So yea, was Smash 4 centralized around adding more recent choices than more obscure characters? Yea, he's said before he chose not to include Takamaru because his game only ever released in Japan. Pretty much every first-party newcomer had either had a major role in a game between the release of Brawl and 2012 when the roster was decided, the only real exceptions being Duck Hunt, who he's said was meant to be the "surprise character" of the game.

With Ultimate's base-game choices, there was an obvious shift away from that mindset towards adding more-requested characters instead, whether you're happy with the result or not. Pretty much every character sans Ken, Incineroar, and Plant (GEE, MAYBE DON'T SAVE THE LEAST EXCITING CHARACTERS FOR LAST NEXT TIME) was a mildly popular choice atleast, and that's not even mentioning the fact he brought back every single veteran. Sakurai obviously isn't perfect (and I don't doubt the fact he was relatively disconnected from characters like K.Rool's popularity before the ballot) but it's clear he appealed way more to demands this time.

However, does that really matter when it's obvious Nintendo is doing the majority of the decision making on the DLC? That depends, and I do think your whole "guys in suits" mentality does come into play here. Has Nintendo shown they do actually have ears and will cater to fan demands with stuff like Banjo? Yea. Have they also shown they are willing to use slots for advertising for stuff like Hero and Byleth (which isn't INHERENTLY bad), go for more out there wildcard picks like Joker and Terry (which is fine), or go for more mainstream icons like Steve? (which at this point tend to overlap quite a bit with what portions of the Smash Fanbase want regardless) Yea.

I'll admit I'm still trying to piece together Nintendo's overall logic here (aside from the fact that all the characters sans the literal fan-pick Banjo are from franchises that have recently had games and are doing well for themselves) but it's obvious there is some kind of internal thinking going on where companies like Ubisoft and Bethesda are getting dismissed in favor of... well we don't entirely know yet.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I can see Geno being like Joker or Banjo, where they only have representation through only one game. For Joker the majority of representation is through Persona 5. For Banjo the majority of representation is through Banjo Kazooie. Tooie is represented with two songs and a few moves, and Nuts and Bolts is represented with an idle animation.

 

[Shadow__Myth]

I can see Geno being like Joker or Banjo, where they only have representation through only one game For Joker the majority of representation is through Persona 5. For Banjo the majority of representation is through Banjo Kazooie. Tooie is represented with like two songs and Nuts and Bolts is represented with an idle animation.

Banjo's grenade egg, up smash, breegul blaster, forward smash, forward tilt, and neutral air are all from Tooie.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Oh really. Thanks for correcting me! But still, the majority of content comes from Kazooie.

Banjo's grenade egg, up smash, breegul blaster, forward smash, forward tilt, and neutral air are all from Tooie.

 

[TooManyToastahs]

I'll give you all 7 guesses as to whose bday it is today.

Happy Birthday amigo! May all your birthday wishes come true (though i think the rule is you can only have one birthday wish, so uhh, make it count?)

 

[GenoDoge]

Imagine if they did a Mario Warriors (like Hyrule Warriors) and included Geno and Mallow. That would be neat.

 

[StrangeKitten]

One would certainly hope we'll get Geno playable this time around! Are there any characters who did better than Geno on the Ballot who still aren't in? I feel like Geno would be the most popular of those remaining. The Smash 4 Mii costume definitely seems to say so.

 

[MattX20]

Happy Birthday amigo! May all your birthday wishes come true (though i think the rule is you can only have one birthday wish, so uhh, make it count?)
View attachment 290107

That Geno pic could be used for future birthdays

 

[Fatmanonice]

One would certainly hope we'll get Geno playable this time around! Are there any characters who did better than Geno on the Ballot who still aren't in? I feel like Geno would be the most popular of those remaining. The Smash 4 Mii costume definitely seems to say so.

That's another thing too. With Steve in, Geno's absence is even more wildly apparent. For example, look at this massive poll data collection that was done for the Smash Ballot:

SSB4Dojo's Smash Poll Data Consolidation

Global Character Results All Data was taken during the summer of 2015 during the ballots. These would be the characters Sakurai had knowledge of creating the Smash U Character List For all data shown on this global page, it is a combination of 1/2 US/Euro percentage and 1/2 Japan percentage To ...

docs.google.com

Geno was ranked the 6th most requested third party character in the world. Everybody above him has either been confirmed as playable or an AT or deconfirmed by their respective owners. Combine this with the first party requests and Geno's absence is even more apparent.

 

[StrangeKitten]

It is December 2021. We wait with baited breath and... our last newcomer is not Geno. Our hearts pound as the Mii costumes are shown. The Geno costume is not there either. Just as we feel like the curtains have closed on Geno getting into Ultimate, Sakurai says, "Hold on, I have one final gift to all of you!" A trailer starts, showing Mario and Bowser traveling together. They get into a battle. The Smithy gang wreck them for a little while. "I hope I'm not too late!", a voice shouts. He uses a Mushroom to heal Mario, and then...

It transitions to Geno's splash screen, stating that he'll be free for a limited time for those who bought both passes. Then he uses the second mushroom to heal Bowser, and they take down the Smithy gang!

 

[Paraster]

A thought: how would Geno's Super Mario RPG music be placed into the Sound Test?

Would it be placed into the middle of the Mario music to fit with the chronological order?

Would it be placed at the end of the Mario music since it was added later?

Would it be sectioned off into its own folder like Mario Kart?

 

[MisterMike]

A thought: how would Geno's Super Mario RPG music be placed into the Sound Test?

Would it be placed into the middle of the Mario music to fit with the chronological order?

Would it be placed at the end of the Mario music since it was added later?

Would it be sectioned off into its own folder like Mario Kart?

Since the Three Houses music was placed at the end of the Fire Emblem section, most likely the latter.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

This is unlikely, but I hope Geno comes with other Mario RPG music since a lot of them were composed by Yoko Shimomura and I think it would be easier to get the rights too (correct me if I'm wrong). The lack of music from Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi is so jarring.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

This is unlikely, but I hope Geno comes with other Mario RPG music since a lot of them were composed by Yoko Shimomura. The lack of music from Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi is so jarring.

Nintendo give me the Cackletta and Antasma boss themes now or you will suffer the wrath of shirtless Wario

 

[StrangeKitten]

Nintendo give me the Cackletta and Antasma boss themes now or you will suffer the wrath of shirtless Wario

Move over, Shulk and ZSS! This is the real bathing suit stud Smash needs!

 

[CannonStreak]

Nintendo give me the Cackletta and Antasma boss themes now or you will suffer the wrath of shirtless Wario

And they say Mario was fat...

Mario may be chubby, but he looks like he lost weight compared to Wario here.

 

[skydogc]

Nintendo give me the Cackletta and Antasma boss themes now or you will suffer the wrath of shirtless Wario

This is the ideal male body. You make not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

 

[CannonStreak]

This is the ideal male body. You make not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

Yeah, Wario is quite manly here, wouldn't you say?

 

[ctt4lfecw]

That's another thing too. With Steve in, Geno's absence is even more wildly apparent. For example, look at this massive poll data collection that was done for the Smash Ballot:

SSB4Dojo's Smash Poll Data Consolidation

Global Character Results All Data was taken during the summer of 2015 during the ballots. These would be the characters Sakurai had knowledge of creating the Smash U Character List For all data shown on this global page, it is a combination of 1/2 US/Euro percentage and 1/2 Japan percentage To ...

docs.google.com

Geno was ranked the 6th most requested third party character in the world. Everybody above him has either been confirmed as playable or an AT or deconfirmed by their respective owners. Combine this with the first party requests and Geno's absence is even more apparent.

It’s good to see those poll numbers and have Geno come out so strong!

 

[TriggerX]

IDK, I think the majority won't really care that much as long as Geno’s lack of playability is overshadowed by somebody decent. IE: 2B, Lara Croft, Crono,Sephiroth, Chocobo, etc...

There’s plenty of wanted characters from Square’s library and at the end of the day you can't please everybody.

Nintendo has actively shown that they are recycling old mii costumes from the previous game. In that regard Lloyd and Geno may not be all that different from any other returning mii costume like Heiachi.

It’s odd that Geno’s costume hasn’t returned despite already having a spirit base game, but at the same time it’s not.
Square seems to like all their dlc bundled together for any show case. This is pretty evident from clouds release as well as Hero’s release. Since Hero’s release seemed strictly focused on DQ content, it’s very possible that the Geno costume never had a chance of returning since another Square character has yet to be revealed.

So overall Geno either is that Square character, or by a stroke of bad luck the costume had no choice but to be pushed back further because the second Square character just wasn’t planned until later.

 

[Paraspikey]

Geno's costume being missing absolutely means something.

No, Nintendo nor Square Enix decided to make their Mii wave strictly "Dragon Quest". Why? Because what would be the point in doing that? Why did they have the least amount of Miis in that wave, being 4 Mii costumes, when the normal wave is 5-6 Miis?
They also said in Steve's presentation that they were going to focus on Minecraft Miis, and get this... we got a returning costume as well, so even if they wanted to focus on Dragon Quest, they would of included the Square Enix costumes with the Square Enix character, unless something, regarding one of those two Mii costumes, was happening.

 

[Shado-will]

This is the ideal male body. You make not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

Impossible, how could you not like a body like that?

 

[MattX20]

Geno's costume being missing absolutely means something.

No, Nintendo nor Square Enix decided to make their Mii wave strictly "Dragon Quest". Why? Because what would be the point in doing that? Why did they have the least amount of Miis in that wave, being 4 Mii costumes, when the normal wave is 5-6 Miis?
They also said in Steve's presentation that they were going to focus on Minecraft Miis, and get this... we got a returning costume as well, so even if they wanted to focus on Dragon Quest, they would of included the Square Enix costumes with the Square Enix character, unless something, regarding one of those two Mii costumes, was happening.

Plus, every 3rd party company that had Mii Fighter costumes in Smash 4 had no fewer than 2 each return as noted with Bandai Namco in the previous two waves. Only Square's content has yet to show up

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Yeah, the Chocobo and Geno Mii costumes would result in 6 Mii Costumes for Hero, which is the maximum amount of Mii costumes a character can get, so something is reallllly fishy.

 

[Jurae818]

I've had a different take on things regarding Geno. I still think he has a good chance of showing up...just not anytime soon. I feel based on certain recurring patterns from Season 1 and Season 2 of Smash Ultimate's waiting period, there may be another character coming before the year is out, announced but not released. And Geno is unlikely to be the next reveal. Somehow, I think the Video Game Awards will have another reveal, to make a halfway point with this pass. Minecraft and Steve were shown to boost sales for the pass and I think the third pack will be another 'big' name or a name that'll be worthy of the awards and as a second pull towards people buying the pass if Steve didn't already entice them to do so. I won't say who, at least not in this thread but it's not going to be Geno...

...because somehow, I think Geno will be the second-to-last if not last character to be revealed assuming another entry in a certain SRPG doesn't show its ugly face in the next year or so. What better way to end the pass than on a very big never-ever like Geno? This means another year of speculation and being in the dark, but I think the wait will be worth it in the end. But for now, Geno's likely going to have to take a small backseat to the rest of the pass, but rest assured, the vindication of him being a playable fighter will negate all of the would-be anguish that came prior to. So hang tight, friends. Unless that mii costume comes back, it's very damning to say the least that they are saving it for another Square event or just saving it for whatever reason...or it could mean that the costume was retired and comes along the genuine article. Remember this?

I repeat myself from that same post way back, why did Geno and only Geno get a splash screen? To this day, he's the only costume that got this treatment and he even returned as a Spirit, but the costume is still AWOL. There was nothing stopping them from adding it in again in the base game unless they were going to either put it with another Square rep (Hero) or just add Geno altogether. The former didn't happen and there's still a chance another Square rep could pop up with the costume (and I always forget the Chocobo costume as well)...but why wait so long unless they just felt the need to and that would be rubbing salt in the would at this point or if Geno himself was in the works now as a full-fledged fighter?

The wait is long, but the taste of victory will be marvelous.

Also shout-out to the Leak That Shall Not Be Named. Two years ago, every character in that leak had their fans ecstatic and only two of those characters would make it to the big time. Let's hope at least another one will make it to the fray.

 

[Shadow Star DX]

If Geno isnt a character, that doesn't make Nintendo or Sakurai "an asshole", that just means negotiations fell through and they couldn't get the other party to agree to something more than what they could get. Sometimes things just don't work out in the business world. You cannot tell me, after everything that this game has become after all this time, that the people involved with this game are "assholes". I've never agreed with this train of thought, and I'm not going to start.

If Geno is just a costume, then that's as much as Square was willing to concede, and they unfortunately have the final say in this stuff, because they own the character in question. I highly doubt that Sakurai hasn't tried, considering the history involved with the character.

Nintendo and Sakurai definitely wouldn't be assholes in that scenario, but Square-Enix definitely would be. It's one thing to be protective of your mascot characters and music for your IPs, but that would be beyond stingy to not allow Nintendo to use a character that was designed specifically for a Nintendo franchise. Sure, they have the right to say no, but they're just being difficult for no reason by doing so. They literally have everything to gain and nothing to lose; it makes no sense for them to say no.

I can accept Nintendo honestly not realizing the demand for Geno and not approaching Square-Enix for him in the first place. But if they are making the effort to get Geno and Square is just shooting them down, that's not an unfortunate business falling-out, that's just complete, unprofessional nonsense on Square's part. It's like a bratty child refusing to let someone borrow a toy they don't play with anymore. I don't know what the truth is behind this all, but I want to believe the best in both Nintendo and Square in the end, because I love the games they both make.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo and Sakurai definitely wouldn't be assholes in that scenario, but Square-Enix definitely would be. It's one thing to be protective of your mascot characters and music for your IPs, but that would be beyond stingy to not allow Nintendo to use a character that was designed specifically for a Nintendo franchise. Sure, they have the right to say no, but they're just being difficult for no reason by doing so. They literally have everything to gain and nothing to lose; it makes no sense for them to say no.

I can accept Nintendo honestly not realizing the demand for Geno and not approaching Square-Enix for him in the first place. But if they are making the effort to get Geno and Square is just shooting them down, that's not an unfortunate business falling-out, that's just complete, unprofessional nonsense on Square's part. It's like a bratty child refusing to let someone borrow a toy they don't play with anymore. I don't know what the truth is behind this all, but I want to believe the best in both Nintendo and Square in the end, because I love the games they both make.

Unfortunately, the way I see Square saying no to Geno is that Smash is a huge advertising platform that gives IPs exposure and make Smash consumers play their games. But at the same time, from the 7 square memos, what would Square gain from adding Sephiroth when there is already Cloud or a small following Crono with no new game anytime soon? Nintendo should definitely realize Geno’s popularity by now with the Smash ballot, Mii costume, and all the social media buzz. I think Square might be ok with Geno playable especially when they give him treatment of such recognition of being the closest thing being playable when there are far more notable Square characters and SMRPG being a notable collaboration for Nintendo and Square. With Smash being a first and foremost a Nintendo crossover game, Crono and Geno would make sense due to their Nintendo connections.


BTW: Happy BD Lord Woomy

 

[Shadow Star DX]

I repeat myself from that same post way back, why did Geno and only Geno get a splash screen? To this day, he's the only costume that got this treatment and he even returned as a Spirit, but the costume is still AWOL. There was nothing stopping them from adding it in again in the base game unless they were going to either put it with another Square rep (Hero) or just add Geno altogether. The former didn't happen and there's still a chance another Square rep could pop up with the costume (and I always forget the Chocobo costume as well)...but why wait so long unless they just felt the need to and that would be rubbing salt in the would at this point or if Geno himself was in the works now as a full-fledged fighter?

The wait is long, but the taste of victory will be marvelous.

I also have to second this; I cant stress enough the importance of that splash screen. To me, it emphasises that fact the Sakurai honestly wanted to put Geno in the game, like his interview suggested, and that Geno still remained one of his personal choices he was pushing for. But it always seemed like there were obstacles preventing it. For Brawl, it was the lack of getting Square involved, for Smash 4 it was being forced to prioritize Cloud as the Square rep when they finally did get involved (which made sense), and in Ultimate he's still being forced prioritize popular and promotional picks like Hero, Byleth and Steve. Honestly, the only characters so far that feel like an honest "Sakurai's Personal Choice" are Terry and maybe Joker. Between the splash screen for the Mii Costume and making Geno a Legendary Spirit in the base game, it really feels like Sakurai trying to tell us "Really guys, I haven't forgotten Geno, I know you want him, and I'm honestly trying to get him in because I want him too; But Nintendo wouldn't shut up about Minecraft for 5 years and they want another f***ing Fire Emblem character, so help me god I'm trying."

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I still find it funny that during the Nintendo NYC reaction to Terry, everyone was screaming Geno when the SNES popped up in the trailer https://youtu.be/RXlHU3DOvYM also Geno was trending on Twitter when Fighter 7's trailer was announced https://twitter.com/opestarfall/status/1311683333236162560?s=20 really goes to show how many people want Geno and is still in a lot people's radar regarding Smash.

 

[Enigma735]

I've said it before, numerous times, and I will say it again. I doubt Square would be a problem with Geno's inclusion. The reason why Square was stingy surrounding Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest is because in Final Fantasy's case, both the composer and artist for Final Fantasy VII is stingy and it was hard to get the rights to the artwork from Final Fantasy VII, hence why Cloud's Fighter Spirit is just his Ultimate render and how we have a whopping total of zero additional FF7 Spirits. As for Dragon Quest, Akira Toriyama seems to be more open to companies using his artwork hence why it doesn't seem to be an issue as to why we got Dragon Quest Spirits with their original artwork. As for the composer of the Dragon Quest series, he is not so easy to work with and is notoriously stingy with his work, hence why we only got two MIDI-composed DQ songs represented with each of the four DQ games the Heroes come from, with no remixes.

When it comes to Geno and Super Mario RPG, the artist for Super Mario RPG still works on designing Nintendo games to this day, hence why Geno and Mallow were able to be Spirits in the first place, and Yoko Shimomura, the composer of SMRPG who has the rights to all the OG songs from that game, has composed plenty of remixes for Smash, so I highly doubt Square will be as hard to work with with Geno then Cloud and Hero. The only real difficult part is if Square is willing to allow Geno to appear, which as I have always stated numerous times, is something Square seems to be completely on board with as they are aware of Geno's popularity. If Square DIDN'T know of Geno's popularity, I doubt they would allow him to cameo in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga and to have a Mii Outfit in Smash 4. I think Square is aware of Geno's popularity and since they got their big two franchises out of the way, now their really is no reason to NOT let Geno get included at this point.

So, no I don't think Square will be an issue for Geno. I think Geno's last barrier was the Spirits rule, and that was broken once Min Min was included, so honestly I genuinely think that at this point, their is nothing holding Geno back anymore, despite what the detractors say.

 

[Paraster]

Since the Three Houses music was placed at the end of the Fire Emblem section, most likely the latter.

I had that in mind, but given that Three Houses was released later than any FE game in the soundtrack, it could have been release order, addition-to-game order, or both.

 

[QQS]

I've said it before, numerous times, and I will say it again. I doubt Square would be a problem with Geno's inclusion. The reason why Square was stingy surrounding Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest is because in Final Fantasy's case, both the composer and artist for Final Fantasy VII is stingy and it was hard to get the rights to the artwork from Final Fantasy VII, hence why Cloud's Fighter Spirit is just his Ultimate render and how we have a whopping total of zero additional FF7 Spirits. As for Dragon Quest, Akira Toriyama seems to be more open to companies using his artwork hence why it doesn't seem to be an issue as to why we got Dragon Quest Spirits with their original artwork. As for the composer of the Dragon Quest series, he is not so easy to work with and is notoriously stingy with his work, hence why we only got two MIDI-composed DQ songs represented with each of the four DQ games the Heroes come from, with no remixes.

When it comes to Geno and Super Mario RPG, the artist for Super Mario RPG still works on designing Nintendo games to this day, hence why Geno and Mallow were able to be Spirits in the first place, and Yoko Shimomura, the composer of SMRPG who has the rights to all the OG songs from that game, has composed plenty of remixes for Smash, so I highly doubt Square will be as hard to work with with Geno then Cloud and Hero. The only real difficult part is if Square is willing to allow Geno to appear, which as I have always stated numerous times, is something Square seems to be completely on board with as they are aware of Geno's popularity. If Square DIDN'T know of Geno's popularity, I doubt they would allow him to cameo in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga and to have a Mii Outfit in Smash 4. I think Square is aware of Geno's popularity and since they got their big two franchises out of the way, now their really is no reason to NOT let Geno get included at this point.

So, no I don't think Square will be an issue for Geno. I think Geno's last barrier was the Spirits rule, and that was broken once Min Min was included, so honestly I genuinely think that at this point, their is nothing holding Geno back anymore, despite what the detractors say.

100%

Geno is happening as a Fighter, believe it people!

 

[ForsakenM]

Nintendo and Sakurai definitely wouldn't be assholes in that scenario, but Square-Enix definitely would be. It's one thing to be protective of your mascot characters and music for your IPs, but that would be beyond stingy to not allow Nintendo to use a character that was designed specifically for a Nintendo franchise. Sure, they have the right to say no, but they're just being difficult for no reason by doing so. They literally have everything to gain and nothing to lose; it makes no sense for them to say no.

I can accept Nintendo honestly not realizing the demand for Geno and not approaching Square-Enix for him in the first place. But if they are making the effort to get Geno and Square is just shooting them down, that's not an unfortunate business falling-out, that's just complete, unprofessional nonsense on Square's part. It's like a bratty child refusing to let someone borrow a toy they don't play with anymore. I don't know what the truth is behind this all, but I want to believe the best in both Nintendo and Square in the end, because I love the games they both make.

Unfortunately, the way I see Square saying no to Geno is that Smash is a huge advertising platform that gives IPs exposure and make Smash consumers play their games. But at the same time, from the 7 square memos, what would Square gain from adding Sephiroth when there is already Cloud or a small following Crono with no new game anytime soon? Nintendo should definitely realize Geno’s popularity by now with the Smash ballot, Mii costume, and all the social media buzz. I think Square might be ok with Geno playable especially when they give him treatment of such recognition of being the closest thing being playable when there are far more notable Square characters and SMRPG being a notable collaboration for Nintendo and Square. With Smash being a first and foremost a Nintendo crossover game, Crono and Geno would make sense due to their Nintendo connections.

Ah, I'm glad to see this kind of discussion, even if it is a recycled one. This is much better than being pessimistic of Geno's chances in the face of a mountain of evidence reaching so high that it could be mistaken for Barrel Volcano.

So there is literally no reason for Square to say no for a character getting into Smash. They may recommend other characters, but saying no makes no sense. The only history we have of that is the word of Imran Khan saying that Disney of Japan shutdown negotiations for Sora, and honestly I can't take this as credible anymore due to the lack of my source on that tweet I SWORE Imran made and the fact that he hasn't responded to me either tagging him or messaging him directly. I'm still convinced that based on prior precedent, Sora would only ever happen outside of a Fighter's Pass as his own unique DLC Pack, but since the only evidence we have is Imran's word and he's not being completely clear about it, this TECHNICALLY means that Sora could still be competition for Geno.

Basically, because Imran Khan suggest that both talks with Disney Japan happened for Sora and they fell through as well as saying he expects Sora in Vol 2, this comes out to be nothing but speculation with no concrete backing other than 'Imran is an insider, he would know' which we cannot rely on since insiders have been wrong a lot recently. My confidence was in the tweet I swore I say from Imran suggesting that he believe Sora isn't in Vol 2, a tweet I swore came out as a reply to someone talking about it being Sora shortly before Steve was revealed, but it seems I was entirely mistaken and it doesn't exist. All we have outside of that is Shinji Hashimoto in May of 2019 saying that he doesn't foresee Sora coming to Ultimate and Nomura saying in an interview last month that he has no plans for for any more KH titles to come to Switch after Kingdom Heaven.

As a weak counterpoint, Nomura did say in that interview with Nintendo Dream that he may have something else coming up for Nintendo fans by implying he would be there for an interview again soon, but he never said it was all about Kingdom Hearts. Apparently a big leaked who leaked Cloud (Gee, I wonder who that could be? :thonk is saying TWEWY2 is in development, and that would make sense considering Square openly stated they are bringing old and new IPs to the Switch years ago.

Still, Sora's popularity with the casual audience is something worth considering, but after relaying all this information to you all and myself via research I've gone from thinking Sora is out of Vol 2 and possibly Ultimate as a whole, to Sora is a seriously consideration for Vol 2 and we should be wary of that, back to Sora is a possibility but Geno's wooden ass is still leagues ahead of him in terms of actual evidence.

As for Square trying to bargain for a different character of franchise, keep in mind that Sakurai wanted Dragon Quest and they were very much willing to work with him and that they tried this once before with Final Fantasy by suggesting Lightning or Noctis instead but Sakurai came for Cloud and he got him. This is proof that Square is willing to play ball and that Sakurai has both the portfolio of making characters to the most insane degree in terms of quality and representation as well as having his finger on the pulse of the Smash community to create a fusion of astounding success, with proof that he's done it twice now with Square's own IPs. Other than Sora, there is no other character more on the pulse of the Smash community from Square than Geno, so the odds of Square saying no or only saying yes to a character other than Geno is astronomically low.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

By the way, can someone give me more background on the Seven Squares leak? Just seems like an ordinary text leak that lists a bunch of Square characters for Smash

 

[evanwoo10]

Guys, I think I finally uncovered who Fighter 8 is.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxO6AVqpEMo

Don’t forget about Pillow Theory https://youtu.be/CUI1TSWrlSE

 

[GenoDoge]

Honestly, if Geno wasn't getting in his Mii costume and the Chocobo hat would of returned with Hero. I believe Geno will make it into the Ultimate Smash game.

Isn't it funny how "Everybody is Here!" kinda means more than all the veterans returning now? Nothing is left in Geno's road now. If Ridley, Simon, King K. Rool, and Banjo can get in, Geno can too.

 

[Loliko YnT]

This is unlikely, but I hope Geno comes with other Mario RPG music since a lot of them were composed by Yoko Shimomura and I think it would be easier to get the rights too (correct me if I'm wrong). The lack of music from Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi is so jarring.

Spoiler: Especially these 2 tracks...

My only worry is how profit work with third party packs. Surely , the third party companies must get a part of the profit from these sales , right ? So if they start mixing 1st party and 3rd party content , it would make this whole ordeal pretty messy...

Regardless , SMRPG's OST is fully owned by SE , no separate composer keeping them. If we can get EIGHT DQ tracks , from what is a very stingy composer , I'm sure we could get a nice selection of SMRPG stuff.
And I mean , it would be their only opportunity to use these music tracks , I don't see the point in being stingy with them...

Nintendo and Sakurai definitely wouldn't be assholes in that scenario, but Square-Enix definitely would be. It's one thing to be protective of your mascot characters and music for your IPs, but that would be beyond stingy to not allow Nintendo to use a character that was designed specifically for a Nintendo franchise. Sure, they have the right to say no, but they're just being difficult for no reason by doing so. They literally have everything to gain and nothing to lose; it makes no sense for them to say no.

I can accept Nintendo honestly not realizing the demand for Geno and not approaching Square-Enix for him in the first place. But if they are making the effort to get Geno and Square is just shooting them down, that's not an unfortunate business falling-out, that's just complete, unprofessional nonsense on Square's part. It's like a bratty child refusing to let someone borrow a toy they don't play with anymore. I don't know what the truth is behind this all, but I want to believe the best in both Nintendo and Square in the end, because I love the games they both make.

I heavily second this , especially since this mean SE would have access to a second DLC fighter slot to begin with. These DLCs sell like crazy and pretty much revive these characters , it would be foolish to refuse this second slot , even if it's not your 2B , Crono , or Agnès.

And yeah , simple reminder for some people ;
Nintendo is the one asking for a character. SE can't say "nah , I don't want Geno , add Chocobo instead". If they did that , well Nintendo would simply refuse , because they asked for Geno , not Chocobo. Nintendo is the company who own Smash , not SE.
It may seem obvious , but I remember the days where people thought about SE's interest first before Nintendo when it come to Smash DLC . People mentionning how Sephiroth was a better pick because he could promote FF7R , even tho Nintendo wouldn't be happy with that because FF7R is a PS4 exclusive lol.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Sorry, a bit late to this conversation, but the thing about Mii costumes, “Deluxe” or otherwise, is that they’re characters that weren’t going to get in as a fully playable character, for one reason or another. They’re not going to put in a Geno costume if they want to put Geno in proper, they’re going to put in a Geno costume if they can’t (or they simply don’t want to) put him in.

They’re not saying, “Well, we could put him in, but let’s just make him a Mii costume instead”, they would hypothetically be saying, “Well, if we’re not able to make Geno a fully playable fighter due to [REDACTED], we can at least make him a Mii costume for his fans.” So the “slap in the face” ideology just seems silly to me.

And saying that Geno can’t become a Deluxe costume because he already had a regular one is, well... it’s ironic that this thread of all places is making up fanrules, after what we dealt with pre-Min Min. The only real “evidence” that it can’t happen is that it hasn’t happened yet, which is exactly the same as what the “Spirits deconfirm” crowd had.

I’ve been wanting Geno since 2003 or so. I’d be more than happy with a Deluxe costume. Does that make me a fake fan?