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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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GoodGrief741

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You think an announcement for Sora would break the internet MORE than Geno (and thereby SMRPG) being acknowledged by Nintendo in video game form? Geno's announcement would be on that Ridley/K. Rool level of hype and internet explosion, maybe even more so due to the recent traction of casual players/non-Geno supports rooting for us Geno fans. We would also have our Isaac brothers at our side, because if Geno can make it, then Golden Sun still has a chance for greatness. The majority of Smash Bros/Nintendo reaction channels would be getting crazy views because of the reaction to his reveal. Seriously, I can promise you that just a goddamn motherf***ing jpg of Geno at the VGA after Reggie being on screen would make the internet ripple with insanity. It happened with just a model for Mewtwo, it would CERTAINLY happen for Geno.

Also, the comparison to Simon getting over Bomberman isn't comparable: Simon had requests for years but it died with the hate of Konami and the franchise falling off, but Bomberman kept getting games that seem to have been doing well. I could make arguments over the fact that Simon had more support even though it may not have shown up in the Ballot, or that we don't know the Ballot results so we can only assume, but honestly it comes down to what Sakurai thinks he can make work as a playable fighter. Bomberman was an AT because Sakurai and Team decided that there wasn't enough to make something out of him, but people love Bomberman, so they made him an AT while Simon and Richter had more to go off of for a moveset.

EDIT: You also never responded to my list of reasons why Geno is a better pick for Nintendo than Sora or a DQ rep. Sorry if you did and I missed it, but I was never quoted by you and I've skimmed through the comments here and there and I found you talking to other but not my claims. You gonna just ignore all that and move to another argument?
I’m sorry, what list?

As for Bomberman v. Simon, yeah, Simon had demand, especially in the post-Brawl era, but it had certainly died out by the time the ballot came around. If we’re speaking ballot-only, Simon shouldn’t have gotten in, but of course I won’t deny there was an underground following and that everybody seems to agree he deserves to be in.

(Also, I question how Sakurai couldn’t come up with a moveset for Bomberman but could with Piranha Plant, but that’s another topic)

And yeah, I didn’t mean to imply that a Geno reveal wouldn’t be absolute hype like K. Rool and Ridley. With a ‘break-the-Internet’ reveal, I meant something more along the lines of Sonic or Cloud where people never thought it was possible.

Still, looking at the raw data, K. Rool’s trailer on YouTube has more views than Cloud’s, although they both have less than Mega Man’s. So I gotta give it to you there, it appears that after Sonic, you have to give fans what they want to break the internet.
 

Dr. Robotnik

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It was announced today that Ultimate has officially gone gold, which does mean dlc has started development. definitely enough to make a model or direct a large amount of resources into developing 1 character, a stage, and music. Hell, we basically only need 1 song, the stage and Geno shown for 20 seconds for the trailer to work, even something CG for the reveal is a different development team. As someone with a BA in Audio Production and has worked on film and video game tracks, deadlines for even AAA are less than what we have coming into the TGA.
 

valkiriforce

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For me the real question is who would Nintendo select from SquareEnix, and what reason would they choose someone like Sora or a Dragon Quest rep? I have yet to hear a compelling case for the latter.
 
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For me the real question is who would Nintendo select from SquareEnix, and what reason would they choose someone like Sora or a Dragon Quest rep? I have yet to hear a compelling case for the latter.
I agree. I think they would choose Geno, and I hope so to lol
 

ForsakenM

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It was announced today that Ultimate has officially gone gold, which does mean dlc has started development. definitely enough to make a model or direct a large amount of resources into developing 1 character, a stage, and music. Hell, we basically only need 1 song, the stage and Geno shown for 20 seconds for the trailer to work, even something CG for the reveal is a different development team. As someone with a BA in Audio Production and has worked on film and video game tracks, deadlines for even AAA are less than what we have coming into the TGA.
I thought the game went gold in October?
 

TBone06

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For me the real question is who would Nintendo select from SquareEnix, and what reason would they choose someone like Sora or a Dragon Quest rep? I have yet to hear a compelling case for the latter.
I'm completely indifferent towards DQ as I've never played one of the games. However, if Nintendo is looking to give them a worldwide appeal (which it clearly needs because it's never had success outside of Japan) Smash is the way to do it. There's no doubt in my mind if DQ comes to Smash, there will be tons of people who will take a chance on it. Not to say that I think it's likely, because I don't, but I can see a scenario where Nintendo wants to do that (similar to how FE blew up when Marth and Roy were in Melee)
 

ChoccyStar

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You think an announcement for Sora would break the internet MORE than Geno (and thereby SMRPG) being acknowledged by Nintendo in video game form?
Yes, definitely. I'm as big of a Geno fan as anyone here, but we really should stop with the idea that Geno is more popular or would sell more than Sora/DQ, which is flat out untrue. We should instead focus in the things that Geno actually has going on, like the fact that the rights are already dealt with, that the assets are already in the game, or PolarPanda/Vergeben's lead on his inclusion.
 
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Yes, definitely. I'm as big of a Geno fan as anyone here, but we really should stop with the idea that Geno is more popular or would sell more than Sora/DQ, which is flat out untrue. We should instead focus in the things that Geno actually has going on, like the fact that the rights are already dealt with, that the assets are already in the game, or PolarPanda/Vergeben's lead on his inclusion.
Geno is more requested and has been requested for longer than Sora and a Dragon Quest character, just so you know
 
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Datboigeno

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The thing for me is that Geno, Sora, and DQ all have reasons where it'd make sense for Nintendo to put them in. Even though Sora isn't as popular on polls as Geno KH in general is stupid popular worldwide. Him being in would get a lot of attention. DQ as previously stated isn't popular outside of Japan but a push by getting it into SSBU on paper would look good to both Nintendo and Square. I don't need to reiterate all the reasons we've already stated for why Geno would be a good idea on Nintendo/SE's behalf. That said in terms of """evidence""" (using that term loosely) it seems like there are more strange coincidences going for Geno than either of the other two possibilities. The artist mentioning him being discussed back when SSBU was in development/planning, the popular Nintendo post on twitter, the NoA rep saying he's been rumored as DLC, and Jon from Gamexplain continuing to bring him up as potential DLC considering his track record thus far with SSBU. Oh, and the Sakurai interview where he spoke about Geno. Sora has a deleted tweet from a KH director and DQ has Hitagi. That's it. IT just seems at this point that there's more commotion going on around Geno than there is the other possibilities. I think that's what makes me more hopeful for him getting in and more skeptical about the other possibilities more than any specualtion we can come up with for why X character would make more sense from a business perspective.
 

ChoccyStar

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Geno is more requested and has been requested for longer than Sora and a Dragon Quest character, just so you know
Requested=/=Popular

You could say Geno has been more requested for smash than Goku, but that wouldn't make him more popular.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/

Also, going by this poll, it wouldn't be by much (Geno over Sora). Also imagine, if you were Nintendo, which character would you pickup? A frequently requested party member from a 23 year old game, or a similarily requested main character with a 20million+ selling series? Geno is more requested by the hardcore smash community, but he is absolutely unknown to the general gaming community. Sora is that guy from the Disney game.
 
D

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The thing for me is that Geno, Sora, and DQ all have reasons where it'd make sense for Nintendo to put them in. Even though Sora isn't as popular on polls as Geno KH in general is stupid popular worldwide. Him being in would get a lot of attention. DQ as previously stated isn't popular outside of Japan but a push by getting it into SSBU on paper would look good to both Nintendo and Square. I don't need to reiterate all the reasons we've already stated for why Geno would be a good idea on Nintendo/SE's behalf. That said in terms of """evidence""" (using that term loosely) it seems like there are more strange coincidences going for Geno than either of the other two possibilities. The artist mentioning him being discussed back when SSBU was in development/planning, the popular Nintendo post on twitter, the NoA rep saying he's been rumored as DLC, and Jon from Gamexplain continuing to bring him up as potential DLC considering his track record thus far with SSBU. Oh, and the Sakurai interview where he spoke about Geno. Sora has a deleted tweet from a KH director and DQ has Hitagi. That's it. IT just seems at this point that there's more commotion going on around Geno than there is the other possibilities. I think that's what makes me more hopeful for him getting in and more skeptical about the other possibilities more than any specualtion we can come up with for why X character would make more sense from a business perspective.
Exactly. Geno is the only one of the 3 most requested characters in Smash history who is not in yet, and he just needs a return. He needs to be revitalized, he needs to have more video game appearances! Just thinking about all this evidence for Geno and what makes him likely, and that it could finally come true, it makes me so happy :)
 

Fatmanonice

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Sora's more popular than Geno overall, no doubt, but, as outlined, those aren't the main issues. It's mostly that he'd probably be a pain to get, further highlighted that he's had exactly zero cameos outside Square Enix games since his creation despite being owned by Disney. Even Bayonetta had cameos before Smash. Sora has no frame of reference in that regard.
 
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D

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Requested=/=Popular

You could say Geno has been more requested for smash than Goku, but that wouldn't make him more popular.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/

Also, going by this poll, it wouldn't be by much (Geno over Sora). Also imagine, if you were Nintendo, which character would you pickup? A frequently requested party member from a 23 year old game, or a similarily requested main character with a 20million+ selling series? Geno is more requested by the hardcore smash community, but he is absolutely unknown to the general gaming community. Sora is that guy from the Disney game.
That is what matters for Smash. You have to be more requested in the Smash community, it doesn't matter how popular or well known you are, and we know that because King K Rool is in! A lot of people thought that he didn't work for Smash because he was irrelevant, but what brought him back was the demand! After King K Rool, making an argument that a character is less likely to be in Smash because that character is irrelevant or from a dead series is not a strong argument. Kid Icarus was a dead series, but Sakurai added Pit in Smash Brawl and revitalized the Kid Icarus series. Since this is the Ultimate Smash game, irrelevancy is not an issue, since it is a celebration of Nintendo's past, and gaming history in general. Geno represents the very first Super Mario RPG game, the relationship of Nintendo and Square Enix, the first time Nintendo handed their off IPs to a different gaming company, a cult classic that Nintendo clearly hasn't forgotten about. What brings this together is that Geno is one of the three most requested Smash bros characters, and the only one of the 3 who isn't playable yet. If he is constantly brought up due to demand for Smash and Nintendo of America remembering him, is he really that irrelevant?
 
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Loliko YnT

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If we got a T-posing Geno at the game awards this would be the most glorious Smash announcement of all time. I mean , we got Mewtwo model back during the 50 facts extravaganza... So why not lol
 

GoodGrief741

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That is what matters for Smash. You have to be more requested in the Smash community, it doesn't matter how popular or well known you are, and we know that because King K Rool is in! A lot of people thought that he didn't work for Smash because he was irrelevant, but what brought him back was the demand! After King K Rool, making an argument that a character is less likely to be in Smash because that character is irrelevant or from a dead series is not a strong argument. Kid Icarus was a dead series, but Sakurai added Pit in Smash Brawl and revitalized the Kid Icarus series. Since this is the Ultimate Smash game, irrelevancy is not an issue, since it is a celebration of Nintendo's past, and gaming history in general. Geno represents the very first Super Mario RPG game, the relationship of Nintendo and Square Enix, the first time Nintendo handed their off IPs to a different gaming company, a cult classic that Nintendo clearly hasn't forgotten about. What brings this together is that Geno is one of the three most requested Smash bros characters, and the only one of the 3 who isn't playable yet. If he is constantly brought up due to demand for Smash and Nintendo of America remembering him, is he really that irrelevant?
Still, even with K. Rool and Ridley we still got Inkling, Isabelle and Incineroar. For every Little Mac and Mega Man we get Rosalina, Robin and Greninja. Most characters are not huge fan-demands.

Edit: in no way am I implying that Inkling or Isabelle or Robin or Rosalina didn’t have any fans, but they definitely did not get in due to the fan-demand factor.
 
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D

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Still, even with K. Rool and Ridley we still got Inkling, Isabelle and Incineroar. For every Little Mac and Mega Man we get Rosalina, Robin and Greninja. Most characters are not huge fan-demands.
Just because most characters aren't added exclusively due to fan demand doesn't mean that we can't get any. Geno is the only one of the 3 most requested characters who isn't in yet, just let that sink in
 
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GoodGrief741

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Just because most characters aren't fan demands doesn't mean that we can't get any. Geno is the only one of the 3 most requested characters who isn't in yet, just let that sink in
I don’t know if I’d say that Geno specifically was the third most wanted newcomer pre-Ridley and K. Rool. I think Banjo, Isaac or Waluigi could have definitely taken that spot.

Geno’s top 7 for sure, but let’s not pretend he’s the absolute next in line.
 
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I don’t know if I’d say that Geno specifically was the third most wanted newcomer pre-Ridley and K. Rool. I think Banjo, Isaac or Waluigi could have definitely taken that spot.

Geno’s top 7 for sure, but let’s not pretend he’s the absolute next in line.
I can definitely tell you, Geno is one of the 3 most requested characters, he has been for a while, and is more requested than Isaac and Waluigi. That is something I can tell you with certainty. If you know anything about the Smash community, you know that Ridley, King K Rool, and Geno are often referred to as "the unholy trinity."
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Just because most characters aren't added exclusively due to fan demand doesn't mean that we can't get any. Geno is the only one of the 3 most requested characters who isn't in yet, just let that sink in
I'm expecting at least 2/5ths Smash demands, and 3/5ths moderately popular characters, that would be fair enough, I think.

Also, since Kingdom Hearts didn't get any nominations, I'm not really banking much on a Sora reveal at this point.

That said we have no idea who ranks more than who, since we're not privy to the ballot results, so anything could happen.
 
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Fatmanonice

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I've already noted that Nintendo and Disney are now theme park and movie competitors thanks to Universal but I totally forgot Warner Bros was making the Detective Pikachu movie too. Aren't there rumors that Netflix is trying to develop a Legend of Zelda series as well?
 
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I've already noted that Nintendo and Disney are now theme park and movie competitors thanks to Universal but I totally forgot Warner Bros was making the Detective Pikachu movie too. Aren't there rumors that Netflix is trying to develop a Legend of Zelda series as well?
Well, I think we will find out in 2 days
 
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My goodness man, I'm just going to point out that people are getting a bit fresh with you because you are just flat-out ignoring their points while still promoting your side of the argument. On top of that, you keep asking the same question that you ignore the points of and you keep offering the same stance.

Regardless, let me try this in my own style. Nintendo would completely benefit from including Geno in Ultimate because:

- He is a die-hard fan requested character since the Melee/Brawl days that has gained a bit more of a following recently, thus people would definitely pay money for him.
- He is technically a third-party character despite him feeling like a Mario character, and TPCs always build up hype more than FPCs when it comes to Smash, thus making it even more likely that people will buy him.
- His character is essentially a holy spirit warrior of some sort possessing a doll that can fire off body parts. Not only is this idea crazy but it offers tons of options for making a cool and unique character that will stick out and capture people with his gameplay, making it more likely for people with no ties to the character to spend money on him.
- Geno is super popular in both Japan and the West, placing very high in polls constantly, which shows that many different people love and want the character in Smash and that adding him wouldn't be biased to one side's demand but rather would fulfill both. This means both sides get something they want and would pay for, meaning more money.
- It would begin to bridge the gap even more between Square and Nintendo, who have created amazing things together in the past, opening the door for more options in the future (which we have multiple sources saying that the Switch will get more new IPs and old IPs in the future).
- A Geno Amiibo... A G E N O A M I I B O ~ ! Look at this thing, it prints money!
- With the relationship between Square and Nintendo already well-patched and Square being a little desperate for money right now, negotiations for DLC profit split could go into Nintendo's favor, and even a 50/50 split between Square and Nintendo would still make them a ton of money.
- Geno belongs to Square only, thus neither Nintendo nor Square have to split profits with another company.
- Geno belonging to only Square also means that Nintendo doesn't have to work with companies like Disney or multiple individuals like Akira Toriyama just to get the rights to use a single character in Smash.
- Sakurai already HAS the rights to use Geno in Smash as evidence by the Mii Gunner Costume in Smash 4 and the player token icon in Ultimate. This means that there is SIGNIFICANTLY less red tape to go through to get Geno in Smash than to get Sora or anything DQ, if really any at all.
- Ultimate took a blow with the combination of announcing Shadow and Isaac as ATs, the last two characters being the least hype reveals with Ken and Incineroar, and Piranha Plant feeling like it took priority over highly-demanded fan picks. Adding Geno would be huge for the PR for Ultimate, as the game has been advertised as the best Smash game ever for many reasons but the main one being that all the fan picks made it in, and getting one of the last of the biggest picks in would restore hype and faith in the game.
- If for some reason Geno ends up being the only big fan pick, then his inclusion alone would lower the backlash from the rest of the DLC picks just because of how big a deal getting him in is.
- Players who don't know Geno but want to try him/want the whole roster may find interest in him and want to play his game (IE what happened to Fire Emblem with Marth/Roy's inclusion in Melee). Whereas Sora would need them to have a PS2/PS3/PS4 and DQ could also require you to have another system or perhaps import the game depending on the rep chosen, SMRPG can be played in the SNES Classic...which means Nintendo makes more money by selling more SNES Classics.

I can't think of any other positives at the moment, if someone can hit me up with them. Hopefully this helps you understand why picking Geno over another Square rep really is the best choice of action for Nintendo over all.
A summary of major points against Geno's main competitors:

Sora:

-Owned by Disney, not Square.

-1 cameo outside of Kingdom Hearts and it was a free LTO DLC summon in World of Final Fantasy.

-No plans yet for Switch, last game on a Nintendo platform was 6 years ago and has since been remastered multiple times for Nintendo's competitors.

-No mainline games on Nintendo platforms, no rereleases either.

-Regularly beaten by Geno in popularity polls among Smash fans including Japan and Europe.

-Nintendo currently has a movie and theme park partnership with Universal Studios, making Disney a competitor in both aspects.

Dragon Quest:

-30 year history but overwhelmingly more popular in Japan than anywhere else (~93% overall sales)

-No real Western success since the NES days.

-Owned by Armor Project, not Square.

-Music for the franchise is individually owned by the composer.

-Said composer is openly anti LGBTQ and has publically denied Japan's WWII war crimes.

-No Nintendo exclusives since 2011 and it was a Japan only spin-off for the DS.

-No stand out character recognizable to modern Western audiences.

-No virtual console releases in any region for the Wii or Wii U and not included in the NES or SNES Classic in any region either.

-Dragon Quest XI sold roughly 80k in North America, Dragon Quest Builders for Switch 60k.

-Dragon Quest XI S was announced less than two months ago with no definitive release date or plans to leave Japan.

-Virtually no Smash demand, not even in Japan.

-Last Japanese preferred series added in Smash was Fire Emblem (which was almost cut from the NA and EU versions for this reason) in 2001 with Marth being the last 100% unique character added solely because of Japanese demand.

I think that covers all the major talking points.
Don't let him. These posts are very good pieces of evidence in Geno's favor
 

GoodGrief741

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Nothing personal but.. GoodGrief makes me feel so depressed.
At least he is making me wanting Geno even more. Even though I'm prepared for the worst.
Aw man, didn’t mean to do that. Sorry.

Guess I should probably stop posting, didn’t mean to spread my pessimism.
 
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DaxMasterix

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Aw man, didn’t mean to do that. Sorry.

Guess I should probably stop posting, didn’t mean to spread my pessimism.
Nah men, Don't worry.
You're just like the legs-on-earth or the iced-cold-water here and that's okay.
Giving some points not to doubt, but to discuss and be sure. (Or some sort of).

I surrended about Geno long time ago, But K.Rool (My 2nd most wanted character) gave me the enough hope to stand up and defend the Geno's inclusion.

I want Geno because I really "want" it. Even if the world conspires against it I would keep cheering for it.

Don't stop posting, at least until the first DLC shows up. ;)
 

PsychoIncarnate

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If Crono's in it's RIP us

He's got the same issues as Geno, perhaps more since his design is owned by Armor Studios, but doesn't have the same fan pull
 

DaxMasterix

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Youtuber "Red" is theorizing that the SE rep could actually be Crono

Crono is one of the names Hitagi mentioned.

His theory is based on the fact that the Japanese commercial for Smash is the reverse of the US one


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnpmjTMI12c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrhEN1zXSNM
It could be for the main story mode or some sort of, after all, not all have to be related with a character announcement.

It makes sence to be Chrono but what else it can be.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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It could be for the main story mode or some sort of, after all, not all have to be related with a character announcement.

It makes sence to be Chrono but what else it can be.
Prince of Persia

Crono can't rewind time so it'd be a weird thing to add
 
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PolarPanda

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Yes, definitely. I'm as big of a Geno fan as anyone here, but we really should stop with the idea that Geno is more popular or would sell more than Sora/DQ, which is flat out untrue. We should instead focus in the things that Geno actually has going on, like the fact that the rights are already dealt with, that the assets are already in the game, or PolarPanda/Vergeben's lead on his inclusion.
It's 99% Geno would sell more than DQ, though. DQ sells amazing in Japan but sells piss-poor in the west. No lie, you should look at DQ sales. You should also notice that SMRPG is the 11th best selling Enix game of all time, and none of the games that beat it in terms of sales were DQ (only a bunch of final fantasy titles and a couple tomb raider titles). Therefore, the mass demand for Geno in all regions + SMRPG as a game being incredibly successful, lead me to believe he would make much more money. Of course we can't say 100% that he would sell more, but everything points to that he would do incredibly well. He would actually make tons of money in all regions, instead of being very successful in one and not successful in all others. Just my thoughts, though.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I just learned that Hitagi just backpedaled on BOTH Katalina and Steve

WTF?

...So does he have ANY information? Like, ANYTHING?
 

StormC

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Sora has a huge untapped potential market in terms of casual appeal. Saying Geno would "break the internet" more than Sora is silly. Cloud was a no-hoper in the eyes of the public and then he stormed onto the scene and became one of the most talked-about video game reveals of the year.

The hardcore Smash fanbase is just that, the hardcore fanbase.

I just learned that Hitagi just backpedaled on BOTH Katalina and Steve

WTF?

...So does he have ANY information? Like, ANYTHING?
I heard they backpedaled on Katalina, what about Steve?
 
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PsychoIncarnate

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Sora has a huge untapped potential market in terms of casual appeal. Saying Geno would "break the internet" more than Sora is silly. Cloud was a no-hoper in the eyes of the public and then he stormed onto the scene and became one of the most talked-about video game reveals of the year.

The hardcore Smash fanbase is just that, the hardcore fanbase.



I heard they backpedaled on Katalina, what about Steve?
I have an image but it may be fake.

image0-2.jpg


But I'm being told he did backpedal on steve

I'll try and look into it
 
D

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Sora has a huge untapped potential market in terms of casual appeal. Saying Geno would "break the internet" more than Sora is silly. Cloud was a no-hoper in the eyes of the public and then he stormed onto the scene and became one of the most talked-about video game reveals of the year.

The hardcore Smash fanbase is just that, the hardcore fanbase.



I heard they backpedaled on Katalina, what about Steve?
What makes you believe that Sora would "break the internet" more than Geno? Geno has a larger fan following for Smash than Sora does, so him making it in is more important for Smash. Yes, Sora would "break the internet," but not as much as Geno would
 

Fatmanonice

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Youtuber "Red" is theorizing that the SE rep could actually be Crono

Crono is one of the names Hitagi mentioned.

His theory is based on the fact that the Japanese commercial for Smash is the reverse of the US one


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnpmjTMI12c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrhEN1zXSNM
Woof... This is super tinfoily. The biggest problem with this is that Chrono Trigger is about time travel NOT time manipulation, which is a huge difference, and thus doesn't even line up with the concept he's proposing. If a problem with Sora is lack of Nintendo support (2012 with Dream Drop Distance which has been remastered multiple times on Sony consoles multiple times since), this is an even bigger problem with Crono as the last release was 2008 as a DS Remake. It wasn't on the Wii U Virtual Console or the SNES Classic and in recent years is only available on Steam and as a cellphone game. As Psycho pointed out, there's hardly any demand for him anymore and he would have honestly been most appropriate back in Brawl.
 

FCZHornet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
97
Because Sora absolutely transcends smash requests. Yes, Geno has polled better then Sora. That doesn’t change the fact that we are talking about the main character of a flagship, system-moving franchise who is thought to be impossible to include. This is smash bubble thought at its finest
 
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