Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Paperluigi11]

I had an idea for what may be a fun way for Nintendo to tie the dlc characters into world of light, as well as tie in their reveal trailer into the story.

Imagine a new section added to the world of light map for each dlc character, mostly just a small new area that shows their stage and some spirits battles from the game which the character is from. This area would be unlocked after clearing the area in which the characters needed for the future cutscene would be located. In addition, a new boss battle appears, and the battle involves the new character as an ally with a requirement for your fighter. This could also lead into the character reveal trailers being directly tied into the world of light mode.

Imagine a Forest Maze area opening up after you clear the mushroom kingdom portion of the map. After a couple of spirit battles against the spirits of mallow, bowyer, and the like, you get a battle to fight Smithy with Mario, Peach, or Bowser. Then, when starting the battle, you get a cutscene which would also be the reveal trailer for Geno. Afterwards, you fight a boss battle with Geno as an ally. When you finish the boss fight, you would get what is often the last scene shown after the move set reveal of the character in the reveal trailer, most likely showing the original RPG team celebrating being together again.

 

[EarlTamm]

That makes it more likely, not less.

And really, there wasn’t huge demand for Snake, or Cloud, or Ryu, or Simon. Not within the Smash fandom. Yet they were still added because they’re from famous videogame franchises with mass appeal where the West is concerned. Likewise with Richter in the East (where he was pretty much a necessity, as Castlevania never caught on in Japan as much). Dragon Quest would just be to Japan what Final Fantasy is to the West.

(What I mean is, the precedent is there)

But as you said, those were all for western audiences, not Japanese. It's hard to say there is a precedent when said precedent is directed at an entirely different group of people. Also, Sakurai put in Richter saying that he wanted the character to be more recognized. And since he is the most popular with Japan, that means that Richter's inclusion was still because of Western audiences, just that in this case, it was to educate them.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

ForsakenM & Fatmanonice

Not the heroes we deserve, but the heroes we need.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Speculation, speculation, speculation...That is what it all is. Even what I said is just speculation, just that I am speculating that Geno might not make it in because after the November direct and the announcement that Nintendo has chosen the DLC characters themselves, his chances may have gotten slimmer.

And I KNOW all about the clues and hints at Geno finally being in Smash; the re-releases of Super Mario RPG, the renewed copyrights, the Mii costume in Smash 4, Sakurai's own interest in the character, etc. I KNOW. But people had been making those arguments for characters like Ridley and K.Rool since the Melee days and it took them almost 20 years to finally say "OK, let's add them in". Just saying that "oh the interest is there it's gonna happen" is not enough.

Once more, after the November direct, ANYTHING can happen with the DLC at this point, and Geno has a 40% chance of making it in. If the leaks are true about there being a Square rep as DLC, Square will ALSO want to choose THEIR character to crossover too, you know, which includes Sora, Dragon Quest character and even another Final Fantasy rep.

AND I KNOW SORA IS GONNA BE A HARD CHARACTER TO GET IN. I don't need to hear that, I just bring it up as an EXAMPLE of who could get in as well as the other Square rep people have been talking about. Sora is gonna be a licensing nightmare because it all boils down to if Nintendo is willing to split DLC revenue three way.

And the whole "oh Dragon Quest cant be represented in Smash because it's only popular in Japan" argument is irrelevant. For starters, Smash is a game that originated in Japan. Second, there IS a Smash community in Japan as well that have their own wanted characters (remember how Ridley was called Captain America because the Japanese felt he was there to appeal to the Americans?). Dragon Quest is insanely popular in Japan, so wouldn't it make sense to add Dragon Quest representation in Smash? The whole Japan popularity thing doesn't matter in Smash; Fire Emblem was Japan exclusive until Marth and Roy showed up in Melee.

As for the 'there are enough sword fighters" argument, that one is also invalid. Yes, Smash is notorious for its many sword fighters, but that should not limit the inclusion of a character, much like how the "character relevancy" argument doesn't limit anyone. If a character is popular enough and Nintendo wants him/her in the game, it's gonna happen.

Listen, I am sorry if I am coming off as being cynical and raining down on everyone's hopes and dreams for Geno. I already said that all my speculation could be wrong and Geno IS going to be DLC and be the first one to boot. There is still hope for him. Just saying that we shouldn't see this as being a fact when anything can happen at this point and that using facts and speculative information is not gonna raise his chances. Remember how in the August direct EVERYONE freaked out because the set was implying that Skull Kid was gonna be in the game? Hype can play a lot of mind games.

No one is disputing the fact that anything can happen. We know that more than anyone. You didn't actually address any of the solid fact based evidence but I'm not going to spoonfeed that to you so keep throwing out your copy/paste answers about DQ's Japan popularity.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

TerminalMontage

I wouldn't even worry about Hitagi. I don't even think they said anything correct about an upcoming character, they could just be making guesses. The only reason why they're known is because Verge knows them. But remember, Verge did talk about Geno and said he was on the list of the supposed "seven" Square reps. We all know Geno's game was The Legend of the SEVEN Stars, and it was Geno's job to collect all SEVEN star pieces to restore Star Road.

Verge said MC is supposed to get some representation, there are probably just spirits of Steve and a Creeper that haven't been shown. Verge didn't say anything about Steve being playable, he would've came out with it already, and "some" representation could just mean a stage, stage hazard, boss, assist trophy, mii costume, or spirit. It's kinda weird how people are jumping to conclusions after a random dude said, "Steve is said to be playable!". The only reason why they're known to be trusted is because Verge knows them; for all we know, this dude probably made a guess and said Steve is playable because Verge said MC has some representation in the game. I don't even know how Steve would work, because his running and crouching wouldn't even work with Smash; he doesn't crouch all the way. For all we know, Banjo could be the actual character but we get a Minecraft stage with his DLC pack. A stage can get in the game without having an actual character, because Hanenbow, PictoChat, and Paper Mario's stages don't have a representing character; Smashville was an Animal Crossing stage from Brawl and it didn't have any AC newcomers or characters.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm honestly not even sure we can start DLC speculation without seeing what the first DLC ends up being.

Is it a shill character? Is it a fan favorite? Is it a third party? Is it a first party?

Is it a fire emblem character?

 

[GoodGrief741]

But as you said, those were all for western audiences, not Japanese. It's hard to say there is a precedent when said precedent is directed at an entirely different group of people. Also, Sakurai put in Richter saying that he wanted the character to be more recognized. And since he is the most popular with Japan, that means that Richter's inclusion was still because of Western audiences, just that in this case, it was to educate them.

Given Nintendo’s a Japanese business, and there’ve been some complaints from the Japanese side of Smash fandom about how the roster panders to the West, I can see the suits at Nintendo adding a Japanese favorite franchise like Dragon Quest. Placates the Japanese fans, sells like hot cakes, and Square Enix benefits from publicity (and so does Nintendo since DQXI is out on 3DS in Japan).

I don’t think I understood, why was Richter added because of Western audiences?

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I remember "challenge" myself on playing Mario Mallow Peach team until the end, what a great-old days.
btw, I'm playing armageddon v9 right now!

Sometimes my team was Mario/Geno/Bowser, but I never put Mallow with Mario and Bowser.
The only time I use Peach is during the Barrel Volcano area, and sometimes during Smithy's Factory.
The team I always use has been Mario/Geno/Mallow. I always put Geno in the middle because he's technically the main character, but I always made Geno and Mallow part of my team because they're the most interesting characters of the story. I mean, we got a frog, who doesn't even look like a frog, that has hidden royalty within his blood. Now we got a star warrior from Star Road that possesses a toy that's loaded with weapons, guns, magic, and can transform into a cannon! My goodness, you think the toy company that made the Geno doll would've been sued by now for making their toys that hazardous?! lol

 

[Deleted member]

Given Nintendo’s a Japanese business, and there’ve been some complaints from the Japanese side of Smash fandom about how the roster panders to the West, I can see the suits at Nintendo adding a Japanese favorite franchise like Dragon Quest. Placates the Japanese fans, sells like hot cakes, and Square Enix benefits from publicity (and so does Nintendo since DQXI is out on 3DS in Japan).

I don’t think I understood, why was Richter added because of Western audiences?

Well, Richter is popular in Japan, and that is the largest downside for a DQ character. Yes, it is one of the biggest franchises in Japan...but that's about it. There isn't much demand for the character, since the next character is going to be the SE character as Vergeben mentioned, either another generic enemy is announced, or another anime swordsman is announced. Even though this wouldn't be a huge issue since it would represent a huge franchise in Japan, comparing it to a character like Geno, a character who is popular everywhere and would bring something new to the roster, it would just be considered either another anime swordsmen or another generic enemy

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well, Richter is popular in Japan, and that is the largest downside for a DQ character. Yes, it is one of the biggest franchises in Japan...but that's about it. There isn't much demand for the character, since the next character is going to be the SE character as Vergeben mentioned, either another generic enemy is announced, or another anime swordsman is announced. Even though this wouldn't be a huge issue since it would represent a huge franchise in Japan, comparing it to a character like Geno, a character who is popular everywhere and would bring something new to the roster, it would just be considered either another anime swordsmen or another generic enemy

Yeah, but there wasn’t huge demand in Japan for Richter either, nor was there huge demand for Simon around here.

I hate to say it, but I don’t think Nintendo’s listening to us hardcore fans.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, but there wasn’t huge demand in Japan for Richter either, nor was there huge demand for Simon around here.

I hate to say it, but I don’t think Nintendo’s listening to us hardcore fans.

Richter is popular in Japan, and Simon didn't need the Smash ballot to get in. Simon may have not been top 10 or 20, but people wanted him. He is a legacy in gaming and is immediately recognizable anywhere, so for that reason, Sakurai wanted to include him. Dragon Quest is immediately recognizable in Japan, but not anywhere else. All third parties have worldwide recognition and global demand. Simon may not have been up there on the ballot, but people did want him. He was requested and immediately recognizable worldwide. Even though some fan favorites, like Isaac and Shadow, are assist trophies, Ridley and King K Rool are playable, and are two of the three most requested characters in Smash history that are playable. Ridley had to be scaled down, and I am sure it was difficult for Sakurai to do that, but he did it to make the fans happy. Geno would sell better than a DQ character because he is more requested and he is different, unique. Tell me, I know you support Geno for Ultimate, but even if you didn't, would you rather buy a puppet possessed by a star with a gun for a hand and can fire beams, blasts, whirls, and flashes, or another anime swordsmen or generic enemy? Also, don't forget about that tweet from Nintendo of America this year "Are you team Mallow or team Geno?" It is clear that Nintendo hasn't forgotten about Geno

My goodness man, I'm just going to point out that people are getting a bit fresh with you because you are just flat-out ignoring their points while still promoting your side of the argument. On top of that, you keep asking the same question that you ignore the points of and you keep offering the same stance.

Regardless, let me try this in my own style. Nintendo would completely benefit from including Geno in Ultimate because:

- He is a die-hard fan requested character since the Melee/Brawl days that has gained a bit more of a following recently, thus people would definitely pay money for him.
- He is technically a third-party character despite him feeling like a Mario character, and TPCs always build up hype more than FPCs when it comes to Smash, thus making it even more likely that people will buy him.
- His character is essentially a holy spirit warrior of some sort possessing a doll that can fire off body parts. Not only is this idea crazy but it offers tons of options for making a cool and unique character that will stick out and capture people with his gameplay, making it more likely for people with no ties to the character to spend money on him.
- Geno is super popular in both Japan and the West, placing very high in polls constantly, which shows that many different people love and want the character in Smash and that adding him wouldn't be biased to one side's demand but rather would fulfill both. This means both sides get something they want and would pay for, meaning more money.
- It would begin to bridge the gap even more between Square and Nintendo, who have created amazing things together in the past, opening the door for more options in the future (which we have multiple sources saying that the Switch will get more new IPs and old IPs in the future).
- A Geno Amiibo... A G E N O A M I I B O ~ ! Look at this thing, it prints money!
- With the relationship between Square and Nintendo already well-patched and Square being a little desperate for money right now, negotiations for DLC profit split could go into Nintendo's favor, and even a 50/50 split between Square and Nintendo would still make them a ton of money.
- Geno belongs to Square only, thus neither Nintendo nor Square have to split profits with another company.
- Geno belonging to only Square also means that Nintendo doesn't have to work with companies like Disney or multiple individuals like Akira Toriyama just to get the rights to use a single character in Smash.
- Sakurai already HAS the rights to use Geno in Smash as evidence by the Mii Gunner Costume in Smash 4 and the player token icon in Ultimate. This means that there is SIGNIFICANTLY less red tape to go through to get Geno in Smash than to get Sora or anything DQ, if really any at all.
- Ultimate took a blow with the combination of announcing Shadow and Isaac as ATs, the last two characters being the least hype reveals with Ken and Incineroar, and Piranha Plant feeling like it took priority over highly-demanded fan picks. Adding Geno would be huge for the PR for Ultimate, as the game has been advertised as the best Smash game ever for many reasons but the main one being that all the fan picks made it in, and getting one of the last of the biggest picks in would restore hype and faith in the game.
- If for some reason Geno ends up being the only big fan pick, then his inclusion alone would lower the backlash from the rest of the DLC picks just because of how big a deal getting him in is.
- Players who don't know Geno but want to try him/want the whole roster may find interest in him and want to play his game (IE what happened to Fire Emblem with Marth/Roy's inclusion in Melee). Whereas Sora would need them to have a PS2/PS3/PS4 and DQ could also require you to have another system or perhaps import the game depending on the rep chosen, SMRPG can be played in the SNES Classic...which means Nintendo makes more money by selling more SNES Classics.

I can't think of any other positives at the moment, if someone can hit me up with them. Hopefully this helps you understand why picking Geno over another Square rep really is the best choice of action for Nintendo over all.

Here are very good reasons why Geno is the smartest choice for Nintendo if not the only smart choice for the SE rep

A Dragon Quest character could be added but there's a lot going against it:

-Strong evidence that Dragon Quest content in Smash is in low demand even in Japan.

-The series' copyright is split between three entities, including the soundtracks.

-Dragon Quest XI S not being announced until almost two months after insiders started to say a Square Enix character was probable.

-Dragon Quest XI S not yet announced to be leaving Japan or even when it's expected to come out.

-Dragon Quest being overwhelmingly a Japanese preferred series with 93% of its sales being in Japan.

-The series already making three attempts to find a captive Western audience in the last 30 years with lukewarm results each time.

-The last game that had notable Western sales was the original on the NES.

-Not a single Dragon Quest game was rereleased on the Wii or Wii U Virtual Console or included in the NES and SNES Classic in any region, including Japan.

-The most recognizable character being a generic enemy whose spin-off series was three games that ended in 2011, the first and final being Japan exclusives, and the second being in North America in 2006.

-The last 100% unique character added to Smash based solely on Japanese requests being Marth in 2001.

-All third party characters having global appeal with sales to back them up.

So, to recap, Nintendo would have to choose someone who not even Japanese audiences really want, has hardly any recognition outside Japan, that has a ton of legal red tape, that has no readily available games to Western gamers aside from a game on their competitors' consoles, to promote a port already released by their competitors over a year ago that might not leave Japan with no definitive release date to theoretically captivate an Western audience despite failing three times over three decades that would have been decided before said up in the air port was announced. Yes, it's possible but Nintendo would be stupid to do it compared to other choices.

Here are the reasons why Dragon Quest getting a character is unlikely and why it wouldn't be a smart choice for Nintendo. Add to these reasons that the composer of the Dragon Quest music denied Japan's war crimes of WWII

 

[Loliko YnT]

I doubt we're getting a DQ character or Sora first because of the music. (Square is already stingy with his music , and DQ have a composer with all the rights to it and is horrible to negotiate with.)

If your first DLC pack has a swordman only liked in Japan with 2 MIDI music track and a generic stage , as a consummer , I would be worried/not interested.
And if Sora is somehow announced , I think the Price may be higher... But as we've said before , Sora is highly unlikely.

It's not only getting Geno , but also music and a stage. The soundtrack of SMRPG was made by Yoko (and others composers , feel free to correct me on that one) , and some SMRPG Tracks are remix from Mario games !(Fight against an armed boss is a remix of the Mario Bros 3 Boss theme.) It's way easier for everyone to get thoses Tracks , and It's Mario music, you can't go wrong with them.

And concerning the stage there is Forest Maze , Vista Hill , Star Hill , Smithy's Factory , Bowser Keep , Booster's tower or even Nimbus Land !

From what I recall , I didn't saw anyone mentioning a DQ stage.

Geno as a character , and the content of his game is way easier to get , loved by many , and is a very good way to start of DLC (Fan requests , unique character , a lot of content...) Wherehas a DQ rep would lack content + all the arguments against them.

 

[ZelDan]

I'm honestly not even sure we can start DLC speculation without seeing what the first DLC ends up being.

Is it a shill character? Is it a fan favorite? Is it a third party? Is it a first party?

Is it a fire emblem character?

Honestly, I could see us getting a mix of characters so just one DLC character wouldn't really signify anything I think. I don't think it will be ALL 3rd party or ALL "shill" characters or ALL first party characters etc etc.

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt we're getting a DQ character or Sora first because of the music. (Square is already stingy with his music , and DQ have a composer with all the rights to it and is horrible to negotiate with.)

If your first DLC pack has a swordman only liked in Japan with 2 MIDI music track and a generic stage , as a consummer , I would be worried/not interested.
And if Sora is somehow announced , I think the Price may be higher... But as we've said before , Sora is highly unlikely.

It's not only getting Geno , but also music and a stage. The soundtrack of SMRPG was made by Yoko (and others composers , feel free to correct me on that one) , and some SMRPG Tracks are remix from Mario games !(Fight against an armed boss is a remix of the Mario Bros 3 Boss theme.) It's way easier for everyone to get thoses Tracks , and It's Mario music, you can't go wrong with them.

And concerning the stage there is Forest Maze , Vista Hill , Star Hill , Smithy's Factory , Bowser Keep , Booster's tower or even Nimbus Land !

From what I recall , I didn't saw anyone mentioning a DQ stage.

Geno as a character , and the content of his game is way easier to get , loved by many , and is a very good way to start of DLC (Fan requests , unique character , a lot of content...) Wherehas a DQ rep would lack content + all the arguments against them.

100% agree with you. Easier to get the more popular content, so why not get just that content?

 

[TheBeastHimself]

lol what if we actually do get another fire emblem character

 

[Deleted member]

lol what if we actually do get another fire emblem character

I need one of the first-party slots to go to Ninten

 

[GoodGrief741]

Richter is popular in Japan, and Simon didn't need the Smash ballot to get in. Simon may have not been top 10 or 20, but people wanted him. He is a legacy in gaming and is immediately recognizable anywhere, so for that reason, Sakurai wanted to include him. Dragon Quest is immediately recognizable in Japan, but not anywhere else. All third parties have worldwide recognition and global demand. Simon may not have been up there on the ballot, but people did want him. He was requested and immediately recognizable worldwide. Even though some fan favorites, like Isaac and Shadow, are assist trophies, Ridley and King K Rool are playable, and are two of the three most requested characters in Smash history that are playable. Ridley had to be scaled down, and I am sure it was difficult for Sakurai to do that, but he did it to make the fans happy. Geno would sell better than a DQ character because he is more requested and he is different, unique. Tell me, I know you support Geno for Ultimate, but even if you didn't, would you rather buy a puppet possessed by a star with a gun for a hand and can fire beams, blasts, whirls, and flashes, or another anime swordsmen or generic enemy? Also, don't forget about that tweet from Nintendo of America this year "Are you team Mallow or team Geno?" It is clear that Nintendo hasn't forgotten about Geno



Here are very good reasons why Geno is the smartest choice for Nintendo if not the only smart choice for the SE rep



Here are the reasons why Dragon Quest getting a character is unlikely and why it wouldn't be a smart choice for Nintendo. Add to these reasons that the composer of the Dragon Quest music denied Japan's war crimes of WWII

Let’s not start with revisionist history. Simon is and always was a beloved character in gaming, but the demand for him was negligible before Vergeben leaked him (I know because I was there). Bomberman was much more in demand with Smash fans, and definitely performed better in the ballot.

In fact, this whole situation is eerily similar. You have the fan favorite, the character people vote for in ballots and polls and campaign for for years (Bomberman/Geno), and the one that has the most mass appeal, from a legendary franchise with big pedigree (Simon/Sora or DQ rep). At least for the former case, it was the mass appeal one that got in.

As for who I’d buy, I’m really spoiled for choice. I love Geno, I love Sora, and I love Dragon Quest. And I don’t really have a bias against swordfighters that most people do.

If I were to put myself in the shoes of somebody who didn’t know Geno, I think they’d love him for his uniqueness, but they’d probably be more hype for a guy like Sora because he’s simply more well known. He’s a ‘break the internet’ addition.

 

[ZelDan]

lol what if we actually do get another fire emblem character

Depends on who it is. If it's an axe-wieldig, magic-using Edlegard then I honestly would be okay with that. Or if they decided to upgrade Lyndis to a playable position that'd be awesome (I don't really see that happening with her though).

 

[Deleted member]

Let’s not start with revisionist history. Simon is and always was a beloved character in gaming, but the demand for him was negligible before Vergeben leaked him (I know because I was there). Bomberman was much more in demand with Smash fans, and definitely performed better in the ballot.

In fact, this whole situation is eerily similar. You have the fan favorite, the character people vote for in ballots and polls and campaign for for years (Bomberman/Geno), and the one that has the most mass appeal, from a legendary franchise with big pedigree (Simon/Sora or DQ rep). At least for the former case, it was the mass appeal one that got in.

As for who I’d buy, I’m really spoiled for choice. I love Geno, I love Sora, and I love Dragon Quest. And I don’t really have a bias against swordfighters that most people do.

If I were to put myself in the shoes of somebody who didn’t know Geno, I think they’d love him for his uniqueness, but they’d probably be more hype for a guy like Sora because he’s simply more well known. He’s a ‘break the internet’ addition.

Please try to read all the information in my posts, as well as other people's posts. You are only promoting your side of the argument, please try to understand what we are telling you: Geno is very likely and would sell better than DQ and Sora due to his popularity and uniqueness. Simon was requested, but not top 10's or 20's, and add this to the fact that he is a gaming legacy and is immediately recognizable everywhere else. DQ is only iconic in Japan and lacks global demand. Just because a character is more well known does not mean that someone is more likely to buy that character. Geno would sell better than Sora because he is more popular and he brings a unique design. Please try to understand what my posts say as well as other's posts in this thread say. If you reply with the same argument that has already been proven incorrect many times, I will know how much attention you pay to our posts

 

[GoodGrief741]

Please try to read all the information in my posts, as well as other people's posts. You are only promoting your side of the argument, please try to understand what we are telling you: Geno is very likely and would sell better than DQ and Sora due to his popularity and uniqueness. Simon was requested, but not top 10's or 20's, and add this to the fact that he is a gaming legacy and is immediately recognizable everywhere else. DQ is only iconic in Japan and lacks global demand. Just because a character is more well known does not mean that someone is more likely to but that character. Geno would sell better than Sora because he is more popular and he brings a unique design. Please try to understand what my posts say as well as other's posts in this thread. If you reply with the same argument that has already been proven incorrect many times, I will know how much attention you pay to our posts

I’m not sure Geno would sell better than a character like Sora. We should always be aware that we are a niche, hardcore group, and not really representative of the audience at large. If you think the Smash speculation bubble is representative of everybody who buys Smash, I hate to break it to you but that’s not true.

 

[Laszyking456]

Nor Nintendo? Well they would if he was DLC lol. You could say that about any Dlc character tbh. Yes they would however especially if they looked at the ballot or in General knew of his popularity and choose him for as the best best character from the ballot to make Profit that isn't a anime or cartoon character like Goku.

 

[Datboigeno]

How salty do you think Sora fans would be if the SE rep does end up being from KH but instead of Sora it's Mickey Mouse?

Mickey Mouse has been in more games on Nintendo systems than KH, Geno, and DQ combined. (That's actually not true lol)

 

[RingJ5]

Something worth noting that makes the Ultimate situation far, far different from the 4 one is that we have a blind character pass involved this time. Would they really want to make the first character something that the dedicated fans haven’t been wanting, knowing that?

Basically, in the case of DQ, it’d be a huge gamble that the faith loss in the pass from both general American audiences and core Japanese Smash fans that never particularly wanted DQ representation(plus the whole “yet another anime swordsman” or “another generic enemy, what?” thing) would be largely offset by the audience of a single country buying the game just for that DLC character. Seems like a weird move to me.

 

[Laszyking456]

Why does everyone forget that Dragon builders came out on the Nintendo switch? Sure it's a spinoff but it's still a relevant game that could allow them to pick a Dragon quest rep. But based all the evidence I've seen i still think Geno is more likely. P.s. if Geno is added i hope they have the song welcome to booster tower.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Why does everyone forget that Dragon builders came out on the Nintendo switch? Sure it's a spinoff but it's still a relevant game that could allow them to pick a Dragon quest rep. But based all the evidence I've seen i still think Geno is more likely. P.s. if Geno is added i hope they have the song welcome to booster tower.

Dragon quest Builders is a spin-off , that's a big issue to be honest.

If we had a WORLDWIDE main entry or a DQ game on the Switch , I would think a DQ rep could be likely.

If people want to know about a franchise / character they want to start with main entries to start with. They would need to buy a 3DS (200 dollars) + the DQ8 port/remake (40 dollars) and that's assuming the DQ rep is coming from DQ8.

Yeah , there are the DS games... But Nintendo won't make profit out of it now.

Geno has the SNES classic already , + possible remake/port
Way to promote SNES online service thingy if they want to do SNES games
Or even a straight up sequel to SMRPG.

Geno can promote a Big enough Nintendo product (SNES classic) that can make them money while Dragon quest doesn't even have an original main entry on the 3DS or Switch.

But yeah , as you said , Geno is more likely than a DQ character.

 

[EarlTamm]

Given Nintendo’s a Japanese business, and there’ve been some complaints from the Japanese side of Smash fandom about how the roster panders to the West, I can see the suits at Nintendo adding a Japanese favorite franchise like Dragon Quest. Placates the Japanese fans, sells like hot cakes, and Square Enix benefits from publicity (and so does Nintendo since DQXI is out on 3DS in Japan).

I don’t think I understood, why was Richter added because of Western audiences?

But that still basically boils down to a "Maybe they will do this." Who knows, perhaps Nintendo does not really care about winning over the Japanese audiance with DLC and are more worried about the Western side of things. And although DQ is popular, it is not much requested.

I say Richter was put in for Western audiences because of this.
Sakurai: "I’d imagine there were a lot of people that went, “huh!? Who’s Richter!?” too. I’d be happy if those people could become more familiar with the character through Smash Bros. Ultimate."
He does not say he put them in exclusively because of Japanese preference, only that people might not know the character and that he desires for them to learn about the guy.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

TerminalMontage

I wouldn't even worry about Hitagi. I don't even think they said anything correct about an upcoming character, they could just be making guesses. The only reason why they're known is because Verge knows them. But remember, Verge did talk about Geno and said he was on the list of the supposed "seven" Square reps. We all know Geno's game was The Legend of the SEVEN Stars, and it was Geno's job to collect all SEVEN star pieces to restore Star Road.

Verge said MC is supposed to get some representation, there are probably just spirits of Steve and a Creeper that haven't been shown. Verge didn't say anything about Steve being playable, he would've came out with it already, and "some" representation could just mean a stage, stage hazard, boss, assist trophy, mii costume, or spirit. It's kinda weird how people are jumping to conclusions after a random dude said, "Steve is said to be playable!". The only reason why they're known to be trusted is because Verge knows them; for all we know, this dude probably made a guess and said Steve is playable because Verge said MC has some representation in the game. I don't even know how Steve would work, because his running and crouching wouldn't even work with Smash; he doesn't crouch all the way. For all we know, Banjo could be the actual character but we get a Minecraft stage with his DLC pack. A stage can get in the game without having an actual character, because Hanenbow, PictoChat, and Paper Mario's stages don't have a representing character; Smashville was an Animal Crossing stage from Brawl and it didn't have any AC newcomers or characters.

Ex-ac-tly.

Ever since Verge has been correct about Simon, Ken and Incineroar, the majority have treated his word as gospel and immediately assumed that any source of his is correct. I'm honestly hating the cult-like mentality this has resulted in, not even Smash 4's speculation period got this bad.

That said, don't forget music, even though Minecraft isn't really known for that. If not either character, it's possible that we could get Rash from Battletoads instead (wouldn't be mad at all, I'd be glad, really).

Even if Geno is ignored in the end, it's still nice to see him being recognized enough to be thrown in a fake leak list alongside the big boys of SE. It's a small victory, in a sense.

I'm honestly not even sure we can start DLC speculation without seeing what the first DLC ends up being.

Is it a shill character? Is it a fan favorite? Is it a third party? Is it a first party?

Is it a fire emblem character?

That seems fair to me. Personally, I wouldn't go back to speculation after I get the game and a Switch, until one DLC character or two will arrive. Life is too short to get mentally exhausted over this.

But that still basically boils down to a "Maybe they will do this." Who knows, perhaps Nintendo does not really care about winning over the Japanese audiance with DLC and are more worried about the Western side of things. And although DQ is popular, it is not much requested.

I say Richter was put in for Western audiences because of this.
Sakurai: "I’d imagine there were a lot of people that went, “huh!? Who’s Richter!?” too. I’d be happy if those people could become more familiar with the character through Smash Bros. Ultimate."
He does not say he put them in exclusively because of Japanese preference, only that people might not know the character and that he desires for them to learn about the guy.

This does seem like an extension of his habit of including not that expected/unexpected characters, when you think about it.

 

[skydogc]

Something worth noting that makes the Ultimate situation far, far different from the 4 one is that we have a blind character pass involved this time. Would they really want to make the first character something that the dedicated fans haven’t been wanting, knowing that?

Basically, in the case of DQ, it’d be a huge gamble that the faith loss in the pass from both general American audiences and core Japanese Smash fans that never particularly wanted DQ representation(plus the whole “yet another anime swordsman” or “another generic enemy, what?” thing) would be largely offset by the audience of a single country buying the game just for that DLC character. Seems like a weird move to me.

I'm hoping this is the logic that manages to stave off another FE swordsman. An FE mage that operates different from Robin? An FE axeman or spearman? Maybe, but that's still a ton of FE in this game.

It would suck for Geno, but you know what'd be a funny last second twist? If they basically said, "Okay, Smash Ultimate is also Smash vs Dissidia Final Fantasy." Verg would have been right...about 20 characters over.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Something worth noting that makes the Ultimate situation far, far different from the 4 one is that we have a blind character pass involved this time. Would they really want to make the first character something that the dedicated fans haven’t been wanting, knowing that?

Basically, in the case of DQ, it’d be a huge gamble that the faith loss in the pass from both general American audiences and core Japanese Smash fans that never particularly wanted DQ representation(plus the whole “yet another anime swordsman” or “another generic enemy, what?” thing) would be largely offset by the audience of a single country buying the game just for that DLC character. Seems like a weird move to me.

I think the warning for a blind pass may be partially to discourage people from blindbuying, especially considering the high cost of living over in Japan. Also, Sakurai wanting folks to actually ENJOY THE GAME before getting concerned over DLC. But that's just me.

I'm hoping this is the logic that manages to stave off another FE swordsman. An FE mage that operates different from Robin? An FE axeman or spearman? Maybe, but that's still a ton of FE in this game.

It would suck for Geno, but you know what'd be a funny last second twist? If they basically said, "Okay, Smash Ultimate is also Smash vs Dissidia Final Fantasy." Verg would have been right...about 20 characters over.

Intelligent Systems Vs. Smash fans be like

Wouldn't be too concerned over that last one, given how weird it is that they haven't paid attention to Final Fantasy IV at all.

 

[meleebrawler]

But that still basically boils down to a "Maybe they will do this." Who knows, perhaps Nintendo does not really care about winning over the Japanese audiance with DLC and are more worried about the Western side of things. And although DQ is popular, it is not much requested.

I say Richter was put in for Western audiences because of this.
Sakurai: "I’d imagine there were a lot of people that went, “huh!? Who’s Richter!?” too. I’d be happy if those people could become more familiar with the character through Smash Bros. Ultimate."
He does not say he put them in exclusively because of Japanese preference, only that people might not know the character and that he desires for them to learn about the guy.

You don't think the ease of putting him in as an echo given the need to include some of his moves to flesh out Simon's also had something to do with it?

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I’m not sure Geno would sell better than a character like Sora. We should always be aware that we are a niche, hardcore group, and not really representative of the audience at large. If you think the Smash speculation bubble is representative of everybody who buys Smash, I hate to break it to you but that’s not true.

Are you seriously arguing that Nintendo should try to appease people who won't be buying the game?

Look at any poll of the audience at large and Geno is top 3 and Sora is not. Stop pretending there's some large majority of people in hiding who want Sora but aren't participating in the hype season right now. The main people who really want Sora won't be paying $400 for a switch and Smash just to play as him in smash.

As others have mentioned, you're just becoming a nuisance in this thread because people are taking the time to respond to you and you literally ignore what they say and once again promote your side

 

[EarlTamm]

You don't think the ease of putting him in as an echo given the need to include some of his moves to flesh out Simon's also had something to do with it?

That is likely another reason, but this is still what the man said.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Since I went into the main things going against his competitors, I might as well list the main things going for Geno right now:

-SMRPG has been rereleased 3 times in 10 years with the SNES Classic selling more than 6 million consoles. Although SMRPG wasn't originally released in Europe, it has been included in all virtual consoles platforms since 2008.

-Sakurai's glowing review of Geno in Nintendo Dream in early 2016, noting that: the character is popular, the character has been popular for a long time, there was an attempt to get him in Brawl and Smash 4, the Mii costume was a consolation to his fans, and that he likes his overall concept as a character.

-Geno's already in Ultimate, meaning the rights to use him were renewed and already in Nintendo's hands.

-Yoko Shimomura, SMRPG's composer, is once again back for her third Smash game in a row.

-Thanks to the Mii costume, Nintendo already has usable assets for the character, just like Isabelle, Inkling, K. Rool, and Chrom.

-Geno's Mii costume being the only one with a splash screen in a Direct.

-Sakurai noting that Geno would be a gun oriented character, something that Smash doesn't really have yet aside from Mii Gunner. Compare this to swords to understand why this is significant.

-Vergeben, the most reliable insiders this cycle, noting a new Square Enix character in early August. He also mentioned that Geno is one of a number of names that he had heard thrown.

-Multiple insiders saying they have heard Geno's name too, including Polar Panda's.

-Aside from Ken, Geno being the only character from the Grinch Leak that insiders didn't have strong negative comments about.

-Geno's Smash fanbase having notable visibility globally since 2005 with evidence that people have been directly requesting him in Smash Bros as early as 2000.

-Aside from Dixie, Geno being the last major popular character from the Brawl days that isn't playable or an assist trophy.

-Geno consistently making top 15 in large scale Smash polls since 2005 in North America and Japan.

-Geno being tied to Nintendo's biggest and most popular IP, Mario.

-Geno's biggest competitors from Mario already been disconfirmed: Toad and Waluigi. Because stages are a big part of this DLC cycle, this casts doubts on Paper Mario, which already has a composite stage.

I think that covers everything.

 

[RingJ5]

-SMRPG has been rereleased 3 times in 10 years with the SNES Classic selling more than 6 million consoles. Although SMRPG wasn't originally released in Europe, it has been included in all virtual consoles platforms since 2008.

-Geno's biggest competitors from Mario already been disconfirmed: Toad and Waluigi. Because stages are a big part of this DLC cycle, this casts doubts on Paper Mario, which already has a composite stage.

Wanted to add to these two points.

-Not only has SMRPG appeared on multiple VCs, it’s been consistently in their best-sellers list for each.

-Paper Mario is a confirmed Spirit(as is Dixie Kong), yet Geno very specifically isn’t. If Spirits deconfirm, then there’s even more going for him as long as he doesn’t pop up as one, which has not been seen at all so far.

 

[Sigran101]

How salty do you think Sora fans would be if the SE rep does end up being from KH but instead of Sora it's Mickey Mouse?

Mickey Mouse has been in more games on Nintendo systems than KH, Geno, and DQ combined. (That's actually not true lol)

I'd honestly be very confused. Sakurai just came out with a statement that non videogame characters will never be in smash under any circumstances.

 

[Deleted member]

Since I went into the main things going against his competitors, I might as well list the main things going for Geno right now:

-SMRPG has been rereleased 3 times in 10 years with the SNES Classic selling more than 6 million consoles. Although SMRPG wasn't originally released in Europe, it has been included in all virtual consoles platforms since 2008.

-Sakurai's glowing review of Geno in Nintendo Dream in early 2016, noting that: the character is popular, the character has been popular for a long time, there was an attempt to get him in Brawl and Smash 4, the Mii costume was a consolation to his fans, and that he likes his overall concept as a character.

-Geno's already in Ultimate, meaning the rights to use him were renewed and already in Nintendo's hands.

-Yoko Shimomura, SMRPG's composer, is once again back for her third Smash game in a row.

-Thanks to the Mii costume, Nintendo already has usable assets for the character, just like Isabelle, Inkling, K. Rool, and Chrom.

-Geno's Mii costume being the only one with a splash screen in a Direct.

-Sakurai noting that Geno would be a gun oriented character, something that Smash doesn't really have yet aside from Mii Gunner. Compare this to swords to understand why this is significant.

-Vergeben, the most reliable insiders this cycle, noting a new Square Enix character in early August. He also mentioned that Geno is one of a number of names that he had heard thrown.

-Multiple insiders saying they have heard Geno's name too, including Polar Panda's.

-Aside from Ken, Geno being the only character from the Grinch Leak that insiders didn't have strong negative comments about.

-Geno's Smash fanbase having notable visibility globally since 2005 with evidence that people have been directly requesting him in Smash Bros as early as 2000.

-Aside from Dixie, Geno being the last major popular character from the Brawl days that isn't playable or an assist trophy.

-Geno consistently making top 15 in large scale Smash polls since 2005 in North America and Japan.

-Geno being tied to Nintendo's biggest and most popular IP, Mario.

-Geno's biggest competitors from Mario already been disconfirmed: Toad and Waluigi. Because stages are a big part of this DLC cycle, this casts doubts on Paper Mario, which already has a composite stage.

I think that covers everything.

Another thing, in December 2015 (the month Ultimate began development), a senior artist for Nintendo posted on social media (can't remember which specifically) "Super Mario RPG has been quite the topic lately here at the studio, so Geno felt right to draw" and posted a picture of Geno along with the post. This was taken down three years later! Nintendo of America made that tweet earlier this year "Are you team Mallow or team Geno?" And yes, one of the three most requested Smash characters in Smash history, and the only one who is not playable yet (which will most likely change soon)

 

[Deleted member]

I'd honestly be very confused. Sakurai just came out with a statement that non videogame characters will never be in smash under any circumstances.

I would take Mickey Mouse over Sora any day

 

[SSGuy]

I would take Mickey Mouse over Sora any day

Scrooge McDuck is the one and only Disney character that belongs in Smash Bros.

 

[Deleted member]

Scrooge McDuck is the one and only Disney character that belongs in Smash Bros.

Lol I guess you right. He did beat Shovel Knight in a death battle after all lmao

 

[ShinyReshiram]

a senior artist for Nintendo posted on social media (can't remember which specifically) "Super Mario RPG has been quite the topic lately here at the studio, so Geno felt right to draw" and posted a picture of Geno along with the post.

She posted the art on her Twitter and Tumblr. While her tweet was deleted very quickly as people say, the tumblr post remained for maybe like 2-3 years before it got deleted too. But you still can find it on other people's blogs.