Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Megadoomer]

I totally agree on all points. When you consider the loyalty and affection the Nintendo fans have given Geno and B&K all these years (DECADES FOR FECK'S SAKE), putting in Master Chief kinda comes off as a cheap political move on Nintendo's part to gain favor with a former rival or possibly grease the wheels for third-party switch ports. Or maybe Microsoft simply offered Nintendo (insert absurd amount of money here) just to throw in their poster boy for some head-line advertisement. Regardless, we need to remember that the prospect of Master Chief is still hearsay at this point, so until we get an official reveal, it's important to keep things in the proper perspective. Time will tell us whether the Nintendo execs decided to appeal to fan service or whether their picks were truly for the sake of promotion and to bring in previously uninterested gamers.

Keep in mind that Master Chief's inclusion would be fanservice as well - maybe not to you or me (I've played a bit of Halo, but I'd prefer Banjo and Kazooie), but to millions of Halo fans out there. Having the opportunity to pit Master Chief against some of gaming's giants might convince people to look into Smash Ultimate and a Switch (I'm sure it worked for Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy 7 fans), just like making it so Banjo and Kazooie being back on a Nintendo console would encourage people to get the fighter's pass if they're on the fence, or how adding Steve from Minecraft would draw in fans of that game.

The three apparent frontrunners for a potential Microsoft character all have their appeal, and none of them seem like they'd purely be added for promotional reasons - it would probably be a mix between that and fanservice.

Geno seems to be in a similar boat as Banjo and Kazooie - his inclusion might not encourage people to buy a brand new console, as fans of Geno are likely already Nintendo fans. However, it would definitely get people to buy the DLC, given how long he's been requested for. (it's been pretty consistent since Brawl, at least)

 

[osby]

I totally agree on all points. When you consider the loyalty and affection the Nintendo fans have given Geno and B&K all these years (DECADES FOR FECK'S SAKE), putting in Master Chief kinda comes off as a cheap political move on Nintendo's part to gain favor with a former rival or possibly grease the wheels for third-party switch ports. Or maybe Microsoft simply offered Nintendo (insert absurd amount of money here) just to throw in their poster boy for some head-line advertisement. Regardless, we need to remember that the prospect of Master Chief is still hearsay at this point, so until we get an official reveal, it's important to keep things in the proper perspective. Time will tell us whether the Nintendo execs decided to appeal to fan service or whether their picks were truly for the sake of promotion and to bring in previously uninterested gamers.

Can you spare us from the "only oldest fan picks can be fanservice, everything else is soulless promotion" BS?

The world doesn't revolve around N64/SNES fans.

 

[Captain Fun]

Can you spare us from the "only oldest fan picks can be fanservice, everything else is soulless promotion" BS?

The world doesn't revolve around N64/SNES fans.

Pretty much.

If we got a "Microsoft Rep" (and the idea of company reps is pretty dubious) I would prefer Banjo by a lot. Still, Master Chief would be the bigger headline by far. Halo is a much bigger series outside the Smash bubble.

 

[Firox]

Can you spare us from the "only oldest fan picks can be fanservice, everything else is soulless promotion" BS?

The world doesn't revolve around N64/SNES fans.

Good ol' Osby. For a second there I almost thought you weren't going to show up and put words in my mouth. Firstly, I never said, "only oldest fan picks can be fanservice, everything else is soulless promotion". I myself was super hype for Joker and I hadn't even played P5 at the time of his reveal. I concede the fact that virtually ANYTHING could be fanservice to SOMEONE. Heck, look at all the people singing praises to PP while I was audibly groaning. I was just saying how cool Chief's inclusion would be with respect to his possible stage or music, and I myself have actually been a pretty staunch fan of the Halo franchise. That said, I agree with Megadoomer that hype for the general masses may or may not hit home with the long-time Smash/Nintendo fans in the same way. I personally don't care too much about getting Master Chief, but I can understand why Nintendo might use him to reel in new blood to Smash, especially since they themselves specifically said that they were actively trying to think of ways to draw in more players that haven't already taken the plunge. In short, I suppose I should have specified that DLC could be for the sake of fan service AND/OR for the sake of promotion and drawing in fresh gamers. Does that earn your approval? Either way, I'm just trying to get inside the execs' heads to get an idea of what else we can expect from the fighter pass.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think Banjo-Kazooie could still happen, perhaps to attract old Nintendo fans or new B-K fans that know him because of Gamepass (and they may put a Nintendo version of Rare Replay on Switch), but Master Chief would be a big headline as well (I'd imagine B-K would also be a big headline, but probably not as big as Chief).

I had a thought, though; what if the "arguably bigger" character is Steve?

 

[SSGuy]

In terms of Smash fans, I think Geno/Banjo are much bigger than Chief or someone outside of Nintendo. I always wanted Smash to be a pure Nintendo experience but as time goes on, it seems like they had other plans.

As an old school fan, it is a little disheartening seeing characters like Joker or Cloud make it in so freely over characters with a history on the platform with a ton of love like Geno but that just the way life works sadly.

 

[osby]

In terms of Smash fans, I think Geno/Banjo are much bigger than Chief or someone outside of Nintendo. I always wanted Smash to be a pure Nintendo experience but as time goes on, it seems like they had other plans.

Smash not being a pure Nintendo experience is a good thing for Banjo and Geno, to be fair.

 

[Datboigeno]

I think Banjo-Kazooie could still happen, perhaps to attract old Nintendo fans or new B-K fans that know him because of Gamepass (and they may put a Nintendo version of Rare Replay on Switch), but Master Chief would be a big headline as well (I'd imagine B-K would also be a big headline, but probably not as big as Chief).

I had a thought, though; what if the "arguably bigger" character is Steve?

I really don't think so. Per the way that Fatmanonice was talking about it it seemed like the "bigger" character was going to be something super unexpected but a massive deal. Steve is expected by many people at this point. MC lines up more with what he was implying even if he was more or less deconfirmed a bit ago.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I really don't think so. Per the way that Fatmanonice was talking about it it seemed like the "bigger" character was going to be something super unexpected but a massive deal. Steve is expected by many people at this point. MC lines up more with what he was implying even if he was more or less deconfirmed a bit ago.

I guess so; I just realized, too, that they probably wouldn't have much to announce for Minecraft anyway except for maybe Minecraft: Dungeons news if they don't just wait 'til Minecon for that.

I guess it's between Chief, B-K, or Crash or whoever.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey! I heard you guys were talking about spartan 117 in smash. Why’s that?

 

[3DSNinja]

Fatmanonice gave us a hint or clue that one of the character reveals would be a huge reveal that no one sees coming
(In other words, Cloud 2.0)

 

[GenoFlash]

Remember when this thread was about Geno?

 

[AugustusB]

Remember when this thread was about Geno?

Pepperidge Farm remembers...

I have not lost hope yet. Though my expectations have been fine tuned for whatever.

 

[Ovaltine]

Pepperidge Farm remembers...

I have not lost hope yet. Though my expectations have been fine tuned for whatever.

Still hoping that your friend who claimed he'd be a lock is, indeed, a hell of a prophet.

 

[Datboigeno]

At this point I'm still hoping that the E3 reveal is Banjo and Geno. I don't even know how I would react if a remix of Beware the Mushroom Forest started playing during the trailer or if it opens on Bowser's Castle. I would probably yell really loudly.

 

[Firox]

At this point I'm still hoping that the E3 reveal is Banjo and Geno. I don't even know how I would react if a remix of Beware the Mushroom Forest started playing during the trailer or if it opens on Bowser's Castle. I would probably yell really loudly.

I'd probably squeal with joy and illicit an office of confused stares.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It all boils down to what people interpret hype to mean.

Master Chief in Smash would be huge in headlines, but at the end of the day what matters is what your audience wants. (Not by any means implying that the Smash audience doesn't want MC) A headline is nice, but it doesn't really mean anything at the end of the day.

 

[Datboigeno]

It all boils down to what people interpret hype to mean.

Master Chief in Smash would be huge in headlines, but at the end of the day what matters is what your audience wants. (Not by any means implying that the Smash audience doesn't want MC) A headline is nice, but it doesn't really mean anything at the end of the day.

Yeah, Fatmanonice made a great post several months ago now breaking down Youtube view counts of the character trailers since Smash 4 up to I think K. Rool. The characters who were realistically the biggest name draws (Cloud from FF and Ryu from SF) had the lowest amount of views whereas the characters that were the biggest fan requests like Megaman, K. Rool, and Ridley had way more views which is a pretty accurate gauge of overall interest. Just because something is a big headline doesn't mean people are going to be as crazy about it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yeah, Fatmanonice made a great post several months ago now detailing the breaking down Youtube view counts of the character trailers since Smash 4 up to I think K. Rool. The characters who were realistically the biggest name draws (Cloud from FF and Ryu from SF) had the lowest amount of views whereas the characters that were the biggest fan requests like Megaman, K. Rool, and Ridley had way more views which is a pretty accurate gauge of interest.

That, to me, is proof that they're looking at the roster all wrong. I'm not saying that Smash should be solely-focused on fan demands or that fan demands are inherently good. But there's plenty of fan demands being rejected for no good reason, it just reads as stubbornness.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Nope, B&K are their own teir. B&K are a western owned Nintendo mascot that are a literal never ever. They were treated like Mario and Link.


The only character that comes close to B&K level is Geno. MC is a recent request, same with Sora. And Crash is no where near the level of request as B&K(some with MC and Sora.) Sora is a character that has a chance because he's japanese owned(and yes this DOES have merit with character selection) so that removes them from B&K teir. MC is a recent request and not a popular one at that. Crash....He's wanted but he's the middle of the road to me, he doesn't seem that requested.

I love Banjo & Kazooie more than any of those characters, but you would have to be a SUPER Nintendo fan boy no pun intended to think Banjo & Kazooie are on a higher tier than Sora, Master Chief, and Crash.

 

[Datboigeno]

Man, I was feeling nostalgic and went back and looked at the Ridley thread. Pretty crazy to see how people were still hopeful if at times pessimistic about his chances in what was eventually SSBU. And the day before the E3 presentation being anxious but still hopeful and ready for him to possibly deconfirmed again. And then the day he was revealed how ****ing crazy hyped everyone got. Lots of similarities to our thread in some ways though with arguably less off-topic discussion and speculation about other characters. It makes me hopeful of the possibility that one day we can also all get super hyped for Geno to be confirmed for Smash.

That, to me, is proof that they're looking at the roster all wrong. I'm not saying that Smash should be solely-focused on fan demands or that fan demands are inherently good. But there's plenty of fan demands being rejected for no good reason, it just reads as stubbornness.

Yeah, if I were in charge of DLC I'd at least half make it big news out of nowhere picks and fan demands. I feel like that would both please people and get headlines. The only big fan demand at this point that hasn't happened that I am kind of understanding of is Waluigi. Tbh it sucks hard for his fans but at the same time Sakurai has more or less made it clear he wouldn't know what to really do with him as a playable character bordering just not being as interested in the character. It's disappointing but if the guy isn't as inspired to come up with a moveset for Waluigi as he is other characters I can't blame him too much.

 

[SSGuy]

If the Smash ballot determined the entire game plan for Smash Ultimate and the fighters pass was included with the overall plan, wouldn't that technically mean that the Smash Ballot should give these fan picks a chance over shill ones?

 

[Ovaltine]

If the Smash ballot determined the entire game plan for Smash Ultimate and the fighters pass was included with the overall plan, wouldn't that technically mean that the Smash Ballot should give these fan picks a chance over shill ones?

You would think, but I'm willing to bet not. I'm pretty sure the ballot was mostly just for the base game. I don't think Nintendo gives a hoot about the ballot, contrary to Sakurai. Their minds are plenty more corporate, and their choices will likely reflect as such.

That said, it doesn't mean the choices will be bad, but it does leave me rather concerned. At the very least, I'm extremely happy about Joker.

 

[Firox]

That, to me, is proof that they're looking at the roster all wrong. I'm not saying that Smash should be solely-focused on fan demands or that fan demands are inherently good. But there's plenty of fan demands being rejected for no good reason, it just reads as stubbornness.

The most blatant example of this, to me, is Isaac. He's an assist trophy AND a Mii costume, so him not getting in was obviously not a question of securing his rights. Then some would say, "But he's from a dead series. He's not relevant anymore." Well, then what about Pit??!! He wasn't relevant until they MADE him relevant. Doing so allowed Sakurai to revamp the Kid Icarus series and make one of the most amazing 3DS games I've ever played. Putting Isaac in smash would have been just what the Golden Sun franchise needed to get resurrected into the big time. And the fan demand? Almost every unofficial poll taken during the official ballot had Isaac in the top 10, often times even in the top 5. People wanted him and his franchise in a serious way, and many including myself still do. So then why didn't he get in over the likes of say, Piranha Plant, a generic Mario enemy that didn't offer any real fiscal, promotional, or even popular benefit? (and I say popular because prior to its release, no one had even considered PP an actual character) Basically, because the almighty Sakurai seemingly willed it so. I mean, he's the dev and can do whatever he wants (and he sure as heck does) but it's always nice to see where creativity and fan wish-fulfillment intersect.

 

[Captain Fun]

If the Smash ballot determined the entire game plan for Smash Ultimate and the fighters pass was included with the overall plan, wouldn't that technically mean that the Smash Ballot should give these fan picks a chance over shill ones?

I can't help but scoff at the idea of a "shill pick" as if Nintendo isn't always going to be commercially-minded about what they're selling.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

You would think, but I'm willing to bet not. I'm pretty sure the ballot was mostly just for the base game. I don't think Nintendo gives a hoot about the ballot, contrary to Sakurai. Their minds are plenty more corporate, and their choices will likely reflect as such.

That said, it doesn't mean the choices will be bad, but it does leave me rather concerned. At the very least, I'm extremely happy about Joker.

I think it's possible they could pull characters from the Smash Ballot to put into the next Smash in 10 years or so since so many of the requests are old characters.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

On the topic of "character that would be even bigger than Banjo" I doubt that's Master Chief, because he was out ages ago by one of the people who work on the games.

I think that would refer to Doomguy.

 

[Datboigeno]

On the topic of "character that would be even bigger than Banjo" I doubt that's Master Chief, because he was out ages ago by one of the people who work on the games.

I think that would refer to Doomguy.

I don't really see Doomguy being bigger than Banjo.

 

[Firox]

I think it says a lot about the differential of fame/popularity between Halo and Doom when Master Chief is a household name and the protagonist for the latter is known only as "Doomguy" for lack of an actual name or identity.

 

[Ovaltine]

I love DOOM, at least the ol' classic DOOM, so I'd be a-ok with Doomguy getting in. He isn't as exciting as, say, Banjo or Geno, and I don't have an emotional attachment to him like I do for them... but he'd be sick. Also, that music? In Smash? Let me at it.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

When we’re talking about headlines with regards to Chief, remember that Chief isn’t just another headline, but THE headline to end all headlines. There’s something to say about how big and important that moment being in gaming as a whole. Honestly, as much as I love and want Banjo Kazooie, I think that Chief would be the hands down biggest thing that Smash could pull off outside of maybe Gordon Freeman and that would be the kind of moment worth neglecting fan demand for.

Like I know Banjo is so damn popular in this community, but he falls several mountains of importance below Chief even if Halo 5 was a little bit ****. I mean, he’s literally built into Xbox One X’s.

 

[EarlTamm]

I love DOOM, at least the ol' classic DOOM, so I'd be a-ok with Doomguy getting in. He isn't as exciting as, say, Banjo or Geno, and I don't have an emotional attachment to him like I do for them... but he'd be sick. Also, that music? In Smash? Let me at it.

I do think Doomguy would be a great choice if they want to go for a historical representative for the FPS while also keeping to a Nintendo connection. Both Master Chief and Doomguy have done amazing things for the genre, with the difference being that Doom helped pioneer it while Halo revolutionized it.

I will say, imagine if we got both? I would love to see Samus, Doomguy and Master Chief together as the 3 armored space bad***es.

 

[Firox]

Honestly, as much as I love and want Banjo Kazooie, I think that Chief would be the hands down biggest thing that Smash could pull off outside of maybe Gordon Freeman and that would be the kind of moment worth neglecting fan demand for.

Ya know, Chief was never in my top choices for Smash, but if Nintendo was ever going to throw fan demand to the wind, this guy would be it. Having him in smash would be such a catastrophic new precedent. If Smash wasn't already hands down the greatest gaming crossover in history, this would totally clench it. My only question is what kind of impact it would have on sales? How many Xbox fanboys would actually buy a switch just to beat Mario's face in with the Spartan of Spartans?

 

[cmbsfm]

On the topic of "character that would be even bigger than Banjo" I doubt that's Master Chief, because he was out ages ago by one of the people who work on the games.

I think that would refer to Doomguy.

The reason why I say it’s Chief is because of King Zell’s comments. King Zell claimed an announcement for the Switch which was akin to Mario being on PlayStation was coming. Only Chief fits that bill. Plus there are rumors of the MCC coming to Switch as well.

 

[kiteinthesky]

I'll be the one brave enough to bet that Geno will be announced this coming E3. #Yolo

Ooh, and I wonder if we can reach 1000 pages before then.

 

[Deleted member]

What made you all think chief isn’t deconfirmed yet from that tweet from frank?

I’m just asking why?


I don’t have a prob with 117 he would be awesome in smash better than steve imo.

 

[Captain Fun]

What made you all think chief isn’t deconfirmed yet from that tweet from frank?

I’m just asking why?


I don’t have a prob with 117 he would be awesome in smash better than steve imo.

It doesn't really have much to do with whether or not I think MC is Smash DLC or that I believe the rumor. It's just I think that's the character Fatmanonice is referring to, considering King Zell's statements. Evidently, I wasn't the only one to come to that conclusion.

fwiw it's just my interpretation of Fatman's comments on a rumor we're hearing secondhand.

 

[GenoFlash]

What made you all think chief isn’t deconfirmed yet from that tweet from frank?

I’m just asking why?


I don’t have a prob with 117 he would be awesome in smash better than steve imo.

I've been told that Frank O' Connor has a tendency to joke around in his tweets, but "Master Chief is not and never will be in Smash" seems pretty definitive to me.

 

[cmbsfm]

What made you all think chief isn’t deconfirmed yet from that tweet from frank?

I’m just asking why?


I don’t have a prob with 117 he would be awesome in smash better than steve imo.

I don’t think he’s likely, but I feel like that the second frontrunner’s description fits Master Chief more than it does anyone else.

 

[TriggerX]

I'll be the one brave enough to bet that Geno will be announced this coming E3. #Yolo

Ooh, and I wonder if we can reach 1000 pages before then.

I would have to agree with this. If we get a square enix character announcement, I would say that Geno will be thrown in there as an echo/clone of sorts.

Im hoping we get a Sora and Banjo+Master Chief reveal as well. No Kazooie.