Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[3BitSaurus]

Erdrick's situation is weird. All the major rumors that have come out with him since December have been torpedoed and most of his biggest advocates have retired or disgraced. Verge's track record has been super shaky since November and he's even talked about how a vast majority of the Smash information he got was in a big info dump that happened roughly a year ago now. That said, he would have known about Erdrick about a year in advance which skirts probability for a lot of reasons with a big one being Square is pretty aggressive about leaks and has even been known to sue. This along with how Square has skipped a ton of opportunities to reveal the character and revealing him at a conference that's extremely biased towards Western audiences doesn't make sense to me personally. TGS? Absolutely. E3? Setting it up to be overshadowed in a big way. Despite this, I don't know because Verge's Smash info was borderline perfect up until DLC so it's hard to say. I'm about 50/50 on whether Erdrick is coming or not but I still stand by him coming before or after E3 if he is.

When I say front-runners, I will say Banjo because a lot of the evidence has been made public but I won't say the other one. Some statements by King Zell make me strongly consider it only with collaborating evidence from others. Neither are 100% confirmed. Both would be a big deal but the other would arguably be a bigger deal though that's just my thoughts on it.

Sleepers? Lloyd and Yuri were mentioned by a few people in passing since last fall but nothing substantial. It's definitely believable but it's not like there's a ton of evidence aside from hear-say. Beyond that, no idea but I could see Sakurai doing someone really far out there just to shake things up. Like I said, info has long since dried up and Erdrick, Banjo, and ??? are largely still talked about because they were speculation of some of the more credible insiders.

I remember reading a post from you some time ago that said Brave's stats fit with those of a mid-range zoner. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you specifically talk about Pac-Man and Duck Hunt in that post regarding stat similarity. Does that analysis still stand? And does it fit with all the names you've been hearing? Or do you think these might not be "Brave", but rather a future character?

 

[Fatmanonice]

More on the Erdrick situation: I feel like he's in a similar boat to how Megaman was in Brawl. Because of who has talked about the character, he's moved into the territory of being a safe bet or comfort pick, even if he doesn't wind up happening. The idea has been discussed so much within the community that it would honestly no longer be surprising if it happened. This is why he's now copy and pasted into pretty much every rumor that comes out because it's more or less expected now. Not everybody may be on board with the idea but it makes enough sense in the grand scheme of things that saying the character is totally unlikely or even impossible is kind of pointless at this point. If it happens it happens, if it doesn't, eh. It is what it is.

If Geno's truly out of the running, my only thought as to why is marketability beyond DLC. At this point I don't know because because there's still a lot of unknowns and how Sakurai seems to be coy about whether the Fighter Pass will be the end for this game. I'm still in the boat that Geno will happen eventually but maybe not for this game. The endurance of the character is really something else and it's honestly hard to ignore that he's still consistently topping fan polls despite no major appearances in over two decades.

3BitSaurus : I did talk about that in the past but Kurogame Hammer even came into this thread to correct me on a number of things, sharing that the stats of characters can change wildly before release. It's really hard to say what's ultimately consistent was the big takeaway. Despite that, Joker pretty much turned out how his data suggested he would be which makes it a hard topic to peg down completely. "Brave" could play like their datamined data or the developers could change the character to be almost completely unrecognizable. We don't know.

 

[Mike Annett]

I genuinely do not know who would be a bigger deal than Banjo at this point.

Master Chief.

 

[Captain Fun]

I genuinely do not know who would be a bigger deal than Banjo at this point.

If fatman is referring to the character-adjacent rumors I think he is, then I'm gonna guess Master Chief.

EDIT: God damn it, Mike.

 

[Firox]

If fatman is referring to the character-adjacent rumors I think he is, then I'm gonna guess Master Chief.

EDIT: God damn it, Mike.

Holy crap! Maybe when other leakers claimed Doomguy, they had only gotten a glimpse of the armor which looks very similar to master chief's! To be honest, I could sooner see master chief getting in before Doomguy. Man, if this happens, I'm gonna need to see a pro-level Snake vs Master Chief deathmatch. It'll be the stuff of legend.

 

[MattX20]

Erdrick's situation is weird. All the major rumors that have come out with him since December have been torpedoed and most of his biggest advocates have retired or disgraced. Verge's track record has been super shaky since November and he's even talked about how a vast majority of the Smash information he got was in a big info dump that happened roughly a year ago now. That said, he would have known about Erdrick about a year in advance which skirts probability for a lot of reasons with a big one being Square is pretty aggressive about leaks and has even been known to sue. This along with how Square has skipped a ton of opportunities to reveal the character and revealing him at a conference that's extremely biased towards Western audiences doesn't make sense to me personally. TGS? Absolutely. E3? Setting it up to be overshadowed in a big way. Despite this, I don't know because Verge's Smash info was borderline perfect up until DLC so it's hard to say. I'm about 50/50 on whether Erdrick is coming or not but I still stand by him coming before or after E3 if he is.

When I say front-runners, I will say Banjo because a lot of the evidence has been made public but I won't say the other one. Some statements by King Zell make me strongly consider it only with collaborating evidence from others. Neither are 100% confirmed. Both would be a big deal but the other would arguably be a bigger deal though that's just my thoughts on it.

Sleepers? Lloyd and Yuri were mentioned by a few people in passing since last fall but nothing substantial. It's definitely believable but it's not like there's a ton of evidence aside from hear-say. Beyond that, no idea but I could see Sakurai doing someone really far out there just to shake things up. Like I said, info has long since dried up and Erdrick, Banjo, and ??? are largely still talked about because they were speculation of some of the more credible insiders.

Even if you can't say who this other front runner is directly, would a clue/hint of the character's identity be okay to share for the sake of speculation? It's been pretty rough for speculation for a while now

 

[EarlTamm]

Holy crap! Maybe when other leakers claimed Doomguy, they had only gotten a glimpse of the armor which looks very similar to master chief's! To be honest, I could sooner see master chief getting in before Doomguy. Man, if this happens, I'm gonna need to see a pro-level Snake vs Master Chief deathmatch. It'll be the stuff of legend.

I don't think that would be the case, as why with only a glimpse of armor would they immediately assume Doomguy? And although they are similar, the designs of both Master Chief and Doomguy are both different enough that you could immediately tell who is who, especially with how iconic both are.

 

[GenoFlash]

Eh, screw it. I don't think Erdrick is Brave. We've got a term from a datamine and a leaker who got one thing right one time. That doesn't deserve the ironclad confirmation Erdrick is being treated to.

 

[Datboigeno]

Someone made a change.org petition lol

https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-g...ed_by_id=0e55e740-70f5-11e9-b65b-a954d80ac9f9

 

[DaxMasterix]

Fast Reminder that PokemonDirect+E3 is right around the corner.
Are you hype enough?

Cause hell I'am.

 

[Firox]

I don't think that would be the case, as why with only a glimpse of armor would they immediately assume Doomguy? And although they are similar, the designs of both Master Chief and Doomguy are both different enough that you could immediately tell who is who, especially with how iconic both are.

Yeah, now that you mention it, it really would be almost impossible to mistake master chief's armor. It's almost as iconic as Darth Vader's armor among the gaming world.

 

[SSGuy]

Fast Reminder that PokemonDirect+E3 is right around the corner.
Are you hype enough?

Cause hell I'am.

It's hard to get hyped with everything going on in my life right now but I hope I get some good Pokemon/Smash Bros news. I just want CTR to arrive already!

 

[Firox]

It's hard to get hyped with everything going on in my life right now but I hope I get some good Pokemon/Smash Bros news. I just want CTR to arrive already!

I feel ya, man. My life is kind of a dumpster fire right now and some good Pokemon/Smash news is really what I need.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, I forgot about change.org. Made my own as well.

It's not usually effective, but it's always great to see something get support as is.

 

[cmbsfm]

The only character that fits Fatman’s description of the second front runner is Master Chief. He would 100 percent be bigger than Banjo, and King Zell’s statement of “Mario on PlayStation” goes hand in hand with the Master Chief Collection coming to Switch.

 

[Xehanort1372019]

Hum... I don't know if everyone heard of this, but it seems Hitagi is saying that Vergeben is actually a shared account of a network of people collecting leaks from insiders in the gaming industry. It could explain many things

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/brd1mo/vergeben_is_at_it_again_sf6_and_mvc4_are_in/eod8vu6/

Just thought I shared this with you guys.

 

[Brothanigus]

He would 100 percent be bigger than Banjo

lmfao there is literally NO ONE bigger than BAnjo-Kazooie. I'll argue this 'till the day I die. Not a single character has what B*K have behind them. Not even K.Rool or Ridley. And I highly doubt MC is the ONLY character that fits that description.

 

[cmbsfm]

lmfao there is literally NO ONE bigger than BAnjo-Kazooie. I'll argue this 'till the day I die. Not a single character has what B*K have behind them. Not even K.Rool or Ridley.

Master Chief, the main character of Halo, one of the most iconic and best selling video game franchises of all time and the flagship franchise of Xbox, is not bigger than Banjo, a dead series with no new installment in over a decade? Okay buddy.

 

[Ovaltine]

As much as I love Banjo as one of my most wanteds, calling him a bigger name than Master Chief is an absolutely ludicrous idea. Perhaps Banjo is more discussed in the Smash bubble, but bigger than the Chief? lol nah

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think Master Chief could be cool, and he would get rid of the "No Western characters" fan-rule and make it so they seem more-likely in the future, but aside from that...I'm not gonna lie, it's gonna be meh for me if there's no Banjo-Kazooie or Steve at the very least. Probably still gonna enjoy him, though, I've just never been into Halo and stuff like it - though I've never played Halo, either...

edit: At least B-K seems to be a front-runner, though, and is on par with the others. And actually, wasn't Master Chief disconfirmed? I guess they could be hiding it like what I talked about before, even if I still assume 100% or near-100% disconfirmations, but they didn't even reply to a question, they replied to some guy's poll who didn't even tag their twitter account, acting kinda like how the Cuphead devs acted, liking to see their character in Smash.

 

[Bubblestand]

Erdrick's situation is weird. All the major rumors that have come out with him since December have been torpedoed and most of his biggest advocates have retired or disgraced. Verge's track record has been super shaky since November and he's even talked about how a vast majority of the Smash information he got was in a big info dump that happened roughly a year ago now. That said, he would have known about Erdrick about a year in advance which skirts probability for a lot of reasons with a big one being Square is pretty aggressive about leaks and has even been known to sue. This along with how Square has skipped a ton of opportunities to reveal the character and revealing him at a conference that's extremely biased towards Western audiences doesn't make sense to me personally. TGS? Absolutely. E3? Setting it up to be overshadowed in a big way. Despite this, I don't know because Verge's Smash info was borderline perfect up until DLC so it's hard to say. I'm about 50/50 on whether Erdrick is coming or not but I still stand by him coming before or after E3 if he is.

When I say front-runners, I will say Banjo because a lot of the evidence has been made public but I won't say the other one. Some statements by King Zell make me strongly consider it only with collaborating evidence from others. Neither are 100% confirmed. Both would be a big deal but the other would arguably be a bigger deal though that's just my thoughts on it.

Sleepers? Lloyd and Yuri were mentioned by a few people in passing since last fall but nothing substantial. It's definitely believable but it's not like there's a ton of evidence aside from hear-say. Beyond that, no idea but I could see Sakurai doing someone really far out there just to shake things up. Like I said, info has long since dried up and Erdrick, Banjo, and ??? are largely still talked about because they were speculation of some of the more credible insiders.

It’s gotta be Master Chief, unless Nintendo is secretly working with Sony and drops Kratos!!! Lol

 

[Datboigeno]

Master Chief would definitely be symbolic of the relationship between MS and Nintendo but as much as I love Halo I most definitely would prefer Banjo. I’d prefer Master Chief over Doomguy though.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Chief would be... something. I personally wouldn't care much about his inclusion, but he's an undeniable icon and one of my good friends really wants him, so I certainly wouldn't complain. And I can tell you one thing, it'd definitely throw the entire speculation scene for a loop now that everyone and their grandma is considering him deconfirmed. And that's something I'd love to see right about now.

 

[Marvel-Otaku-Man]

Guess I need to clear things up since I haven't been on here in like a month and a half:

-Based on things discussed on Discord, there's a decent possibility that Brave may not be who people were expecting it to be. This is based on commentary from some of Polar's connections as well as rumors and strongly probable future announcements at E3 that have come from them.

-There's strong implications that the rumored E3 character will be paired with one or more announcements, some arguably bigger than the character announcement itself. This comes from connecting statements made by various sources, pushing it into the realm of being probable. For clarity's sake, this is possible for 2 or even 3 candidates and hasn't been totally narrowed down. I've noticed that people have been kind of going nuts with Banjo but, not to be a total killjoy, there's almost equal evidence for others too behind the scenes.

That's exciting...and a little bit alarming.

 

[Brothanigus]

Master Chief, the main character of Halo, one of the most iconic and best selling video game franchises of all time and the flagship franchise of Xbox, is not bigger than Banjo, a dead series with no new installment in over a decade? Okay buddy.

The most iconic and best selling video game of all time? Best selling video game? Halo doesn't even come close to best selling video game; That's Minecraft and Tetris. ****, Halo isn't even in the top 10 best selling video games of all time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

So look up facts before you spout nonsense. Also, why the **** is Banko-Kazooie always in the top 5 of every single official and unofficial character ballot while MC never ever has ever been seen on anyone?

O that's right, MC isn't as popular as you think.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Try to sell Master Chief to Nintendo fans, see if they care. I'm saying this as a massive Halo fan (hell, probably a bigger Halo fan that a BK fan). It doesn't mean Master Chief is less iconic or important, but you gotta know your audience, and this is the audience that thinks ****ing Rayman is iconic.

 

[Datboigeno]

Try to sell Master Chief to Nintendo fans, see if they care. I'm saying this as a massive Halo fan (hell, probably a bigger Halo fan that a BK fan). It doesn't mean Master Chief is less iconic or important, but you gotta know your audience, and this is the audience that thinks ****ing Rayman is iconic.

Rayman is iconic tho

 

[GoodGrief741]

Rayman is iconic tho

He really isn't. His games are great, but he's not a huge deal now and he wasn't a huge deal in his heyday. He's a C-lister; nothing wrong with that, but only somebody who is exclusively a Nintendo gamer could think he's anything more than that.

 

[Datboigeno]

He really isn't. His games are great, but he's not a huge deal now and he wasn't a huge deal in his heyday. He's a C-lister; nothing wrong with that, but only somebody who is exclusively a Nintendo gamer could think he's anything more than that.

As someone who has owned multiple current non-Nintendo systems regularly since the late 90s imma have to say “Nah”. He’s a popular character and basically still the Ubisoft mascot at this point. And he’s appeared on way more platforms than just Nintendo systems so that’s just a really weird comment to make.

 

[ZelDan]

The most iconic and best selling video game of all time? Best selling video game? Halo doesn't even come close to best selling video game; That's Minecraft and Tetris. ****, Halo isn't even in the top 10 best selling video games of all time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

So look up facts before you spout nonsense. Also, why the **** is Banko-Kazooie always in the top 5 of every single official and unofficial character ballot while MC never ever has ever been seen on anyone?

O that's right, MC isn't as popular as you think.

I'm pretty sure Cool Mario Bros was talking about more popular in general, not just specifically within the smash bubble, which it seems you are talking about. Banjo has a much bigger following than master Chief does as far as Smash demand goes, yes, but when it comes to general popularity or popularity outside of Smash Bros, Halo/master Chief is WAY more popular than Banjo & Kazooie. Like, ridiculously so.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

In your opinion, what do you think is Nintendo/Square Enix's primary reason for not wanting Geno even though he has massive fan demand/strong ballot results?

Probably because Square-Enix might think not enough casuals will want to buy him if they don't know who he is. As for us, they don't give a **** because they just want to put in who can make them the most dough.

I genuinely do not know who would be a bigger deal than Banjo at this point.

Master Chief.

lmfao there is literally NO ONE bigger than BAnjo-Kazooie. I'll argue this 'till the day I die. Not a single character has what B*K have behind them. Not even K.Rool or Ridley. And I highly doubt MC is the ONLY character that fits that description.

I would say Sora... but he is out of the running and so is Master Chief. Only other character that I can think of besides Sora or Master Chief that would be a bigger deal than Banjo & Kazooie would probably be Crash Bandicoot.

 

[MattX20]

Probably because Square-Enix might think not enough casuals will want to buy him if they don't know who he is. As for us, they don't give a **** because they just want to put in who can make them the most dough.







I would say Sora... but he is out of the running and so is Master Chief. Only other character that I can think of besides Sora or Master Chief that would be a bigger deal than Banjo & Kazooie would probably be Crash Bandicoot.

Crash would certainly be a huge deal, being the former mascot of the PS1 and a major icon of the mid to late 90's gaming world would certainly make headlines and get people hyped.

 

[Deleted member]

Crash would certainly be a huge deal, being the former mascot of the PS1 and a major icon of the mid to late 90's gaming world would certainly make headlines and get people hyped.

I think Crash would make the Internet go insane, as well as make a TON of headlines and get hype stirred up.

 

[Brothanigus]

I would say Sora... but he is out of the running and so is Master Chief. Only other character that I can think of besides Sora or Master Chief that would be a bigger deal than Banjo & Kazooie would probably be Crash Bandicoot.

Nope, B&K are their own teir. B&K are a western owned Nintendo mascot that are a literal never ever. They were treated like Mario and Link.


The only character that comes close to B&K level is Geno. MC is a recent request, same with Sora. And Crash is no where near the level of request as B&K(some with MC and Sora.) Sora is a character that has a chance because he's japanese owned(and yes this DOES have merit with character selection) so that removes them from B&K teir. MC is a recent request and not a popular one at that. Crash....He's wanted but he's the middle of the road to me, he doesn't seem that requested.

He really isn't. His games are great, but he's not a huge deal now and he wasn't a huge deal in his heyday. He's a C-lister; nothing wrong with that, but only somebody who is exclusively a Nintendo gamer could think he's anything more than that.

Just because he's not as big of a deal now than he was doesn't mean Rayman isn't a mascot anymore. By that logic B&K are not mascots.

 

[Ovaltine]

Nope, B&K are their own teir. B&K are a western owned Nintendo mascot that are a literal never ever. They were treated like Mario and Link.


The only character that comes close to B&K level is Geno. MC is a recent request, same with Sora. And Crash is no where near the level of request as B&K(some with MC and Sora.) Sora is a character that has a chance because he's japanese owned(and yes this DOES have merit with character selection) so that removes them from B&K teir. MC is a recent request and not a popular one at that. Crash....He's wanted but he's the middle of the road to me, he doesn't seem that requested.

Please don't tell me you think that Geno is more iconic and hype-stirring than Master-freaking-Chief.

 

[Firox]

Please don't tell me you think that Geno is more iconic and hype-stirring than Master-freaking-Chief.

Gotta admit, Master Chief really would be the equivalent of Mario on Xbox. Don't get me wrong, I love Geno and Banjo Kazooie, and both have done great in most of the unofficial polls I've seen, but come on. To claim that either holds a candle to Chief in sheer fame and modern-day relevance is just being blindly and shamelessly biased. Putting him in smash would literally be the next Cloud-freaking-Strife. And this is coming from a guy who wouldn't be particularly interested in playing Chief in the first place.

 

[Ovaltine]

Gotta admit, Master Chief really would be the equivalent of Mario on Xbox. Don't get me wrong, I love Geno and Banjo Kazooie, and both have done great in most of the unofficial polls I've seen, but come on. To claim that either holds a candle to Chief in sheer fame and modern-day relevance is just being blindly and shamelessly biased. Putting him in smash would literally be the next Cloud-freaking-Strife. And this is coming from a guy who wouldn't be particularly interested in playing Chief in the first place.

Exactly. I don't really care for Halo and would just be kinda lukewarm, "Oh, cool!" over Chief getting in, but c'mon. Objectively, Banjo and Geno are nothing by comparison. Are they PERSONALLY more hype-stirring? In terms of just me, myself, and I, yes. In terms of the world, though? Yeaaaaaah, no. Absolutely not.

 

[Firox]

Exactly. I don't really care for Halo and would just be kinda lukewarm, "Oh, cool!" over Chief getting in, but c'mon. Objectively, Banjo and Geno are nothing by comparison. Are they PERSONALLY more hype-stirring? In terms of just me, myself, and I, yes. In terms of the world, though? Yeaaaaaah, no. Absolutely not.

Even though I wouldn't be overly hyped to see Master Chief get in, I have to say that his stage and music could be absurdly cool. There are tons of gorgeous locations both on and off the halos that could be used, and just imagine kicking ass to Breaking Benjamin's "Blow me Away", Hoobastank's "Connected" or the orchestral Halo battle theme "Mjolnir"!

 

[Megadoomer]

I think it all depends on what perspective you're looking at it from. From the perspective of a general audience, someone like Master Chief would be more exciting than Banjo and Kazooie or Geno, because franchises like Halo have this massive reach that individual games like Mario RPG or smaller series like Banjo-Kazooie can't compare with.

However, from the perspective of many Nintendo fans (particularly long-time fans who have been supporting the characters for decades), Banjo-Kazooie and Geno would be more exciting because (in some cases) it's the culmination of a decade or more of support. Master Chief might have support now, but it seems like it would have primarily came after Microsoft and Nintendo seemingly started to work more closely together. Meanwhile, some of us have probably wanted to see Geno, Banjo-Kazooie, etc. in Smash since the N64 days. (I know I have)

 

[Firox]

I think it all depends on what perspective you're looking at it from. From the perspective of a general audience, someone like Master Chief would be more exciting than Banjo and Kazooie or Geno, because franchises like Halo have this massive reach that individual games like Mario RPG or smaller series like Banjo-Kazooie can't compare with.

However, from the perspective of many Nintendo fans (particularly long-time fans who have been supporting the characters for decades), Banjo-Kazooie and Geno would be more exciting because (in some cases) it's the culmination of a decade or more of support. Master Chief might have support now, but it seems like it would have primarily came after Microsoft and Nintendo seemingly started to work more closely together. Meanwhile, some of us have probably wanted to see Geno, Banjo-Kazooie, etc. in Smash since the N64 days. (I know I have)

I totally agree on all points. When you consider the loyalty and affection the Nintendo fans have given Geno and B&K all these years (DECADES FOR FECK'S SAKE), putting in Master Chief kinda comes off as a cheap political move on Nintendo's part to gain favor with a former rival or possibly grease the wheels for third-party switch ports. Or maybe Microsoft simply offered Nintendo (insert absurd amount of money here) just to throw in their poster boy for some head-line advertisement. Regardless, we need to remember that the prospect of Master Chief is still hearsay at this point, so until we get an official reveal, it's important to keep things in the proper perspective. Time will tell us whether the Nintendo execs decided to appeal to fan service or whether their picks were truly for the sake of promotion and to bring in previously uninterested gamers.