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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Firox

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It's kinda funny becuase before Smash I really didn't like Greninja that much for some reason, but after he was added in Smash I gained a lot more respect for him. Probably because he was fun to use in Smash Run.

Incineroar just bugs me since it doesn't look like an evolution of Torracat. It looks like someone threw mutagen on one and he sadly ended up as a rejected mutant henchman of Shredder
ROFLMAO Now I'm picturing Incineroar taking on the ninja turtles beside Bebop and Rocksteady. Yeah, I gotta say, Greninja is kind of a unique character pick among the smash roster. He was one of the few, if not the only, character(s) that Sakurai hand picked way before knowing how popular he'd be. And holy mother of Gaia, did he hit the jackpot! Not only did Greninja turn out to be by far the most popular starter of Gen 6, but even by Pokemon standards he's almost uber with his Protean hidden ability and his sexy AF sweeper status. I remember trying him out in Smash 4 for the first time at a Best Buy kiosk. After I saw his red color scheme and used shadow sneak to obliterate someone at the boxing ring, I knew I was in love. His moveset is just so much fun. I mean, who wouldn't love busting a DBZ move and teleporting behind ppl to kick them in the face? He's got giant Shuriken for feck's sake! Then take into consideration how much they buffed him in Ultimate? "Oh, Captain, my Captain!"
 

EricTheGamerman

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Sorry I forgot to respond to this, but I have a question. If you think it's possible that the reason Chrono Trigger and the DQ games aren't on the SNES Classic, then wouldn't you think that the licensing could be used as a point against Erdrick/DQ in Smash? In the past, you didn't think so:

I'm just curious.
I still stand by those comments. I think Sakurai is a developer willing to go to more extreme lengths to get the characters he wants in the game, whereas I think the NES Classic and SNES Classic are far more likely to be more lazily made products overall despite still having the best build quality of any plug and play. Reggie has positioned them as temporary consoles to profit off of nostalgia in times of uncertainty. They were never meant to be a long term product and that leads me to believe that they put in fairly minimal effort with regards to most of the process. Obviously they cared more about their Classic systems than Sony did with their awful PlayStation Classic, but I think there's a decent amount left to be desired with both of Nintendo's classic consoles.

Sakurai is an auteur with both a vision and the vast resources of Nintendo backing him and his decision making. I think he's largely capable of making any video game character happen if he sets his mind to it and commits to that vision. If there are issues with characters, I'm sure he's willing to work through them and navigate road blocks along the way.

My comments surrounding the missing Chrono Trigger and Dragon Quest games were positioned to just be a possibility and my original comments on the inclusion of DQ content in Smash were also positioned as there being multiple possibilities and explanations for things. As I originally said, we just don't know much about the inner workings of Square Enix with regards to Dragon Quest content and I don't know if we get to make definitive statements on the possibility of content without more knowledge of that situation.

And to be fair, if legal made for issues with Dragon Quest, than yes it would seemingly make for more issues its inclusion in Smash. I just don't see that roadblock as insurmountable in the context of Smash when it might be for other potential inclusions given, again, Sakurai's autonomy, resources, and willingness to make the unthinkable happen. In a situation where Geno and Dragon Quest both come up as potential inclusions, I have doubts of Sakurai shying away from DQ just because of a perception of how difficult it might be to get content in the game. The limited content of Final Fantasy clearly didn't bother him too much. Now in the event that Dragon Quest content does become too much of a headache or negotiations fall through, I think Geno certainly may step up as a pick (And to be clear, all of this theoretical stuff is assuming Dragon Quest was initially chosen over Geno for the sake of conversation and not because of any definitive take on the issue of one over the other). But we're getting super far into speculation and I'm playing a little too far removed from anything concrete for my own comfort at that point.

Maybe I'm placing too much faith in Sakurai's ability to make anything happen and work through legal specifics that may be more complicated than we even know, but given what he has accomplished with Ultimate, he seems to wield an enormous amount of power in the industry as both a recognizable name and faithful content interpreter for cross-overs. He just genuinely seems, to me at least, the man capable of basically anything he sets his mind to and someone like Banjo Kazooie or someone else from Microsoft in Smash will only further that legacy haha.
 

Firox

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Eh, while they are generalizations, they still hold a little bit of truth in them. I mean, Charizard vs. Blastoise is a thing to this day, so favorite starters are very subjective. I like Decidueye more myself, but I'm happy with Incineroar and the playstyle they gave him. Not hyped, just happy.

And yeah, some people started bashing on Bayo's popularity and the hype around her after she was officially launched. These people were a minority, of course, but bandwagoners will always exist and be vocal, I guess.

The last point might be the only one I disagree with, though. I mean, Decidueye was in Pokkén. That has to mean something regarding his popularity post S/M launch. And the competitive community does not necessarily affect a Pokémon's popularity that much. Usage, maybe, but not popularity.
I think the best rebuttal to the false generalizations was said by Osby.

Anyone who thinks Incineroar is a good pick is also being subjective. Bayonetta was a hype announcement for a lot of people, I'll give you that. Not for everyone, but she was competing with characters with extremely um, passionate fanbases, so backlash is understandable, as unpleasant as it was.

And Decidueye is still popular, though it seems the bulk of his Smash popularity was caused by its type than anything.
 

Shado-will

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Ah, sidenote regarding Geno movesets: would you guys rather have standalone Geno or do you think he could use some unique items from SMRPG or even assists from other characters (mostly Mallow) in his moveset? Just out of curiosity.
Outside of his final smashes and taunts, I don't really seem too keen on having other characters in his moveset, unless it's like a Ness-Paula thing where Ness borrows Paula's PSI Fire because he doesn't learn it in Earthbound. Items from SMRPG could be nice, but I think that adding other characters would make his moveset very punishable and kinda slow/laggy if that makes sense, even though I think it would be nice. I like the idea of Mallow assisting him in other ways than his FS, but I don't know how it would work very well.
 

Teeb147

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I dont know any huge polls for pokemon, but Incineroar was always lower than the other starters in terms of popularity.
For me, I really didn't like his design and was disappointed by the choice, but I did warm up a little, and think it's not bad to have another heavy in the game. I just still would've preferred a bird instead. My fave is primarina, but i doubted the inclusion cuz we already had greninja for water.

I really dont know why chrono trigger isn't on the snes classic but i guess nintendo thought it wasnt worth it and would sell enough with the line up they had. That's just my guess.
 

3BitSaurus

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Outside of his final smashes and taunts, I don't really seem too keen on having other characters in his moveset, unless it's like a Ness-Paula thing where Ness borrows Paula's PSI Fire because he doesn't learn it in Earthbound. Items from SMRPG could be nice, but I think that adding other characters would make his moveset very punishable and kinda slow/laggy if that makes sense, even though I think it would be nice. I like the idea of Mallow assisting him in other ways than his FS, but I don't know how it would work very well.
Y'know, I actually like the idea of Geno getting assists from Mallow and using items from SMRPG. The star egg could be used as part of his moveset, maybe even working as a tilt or something. But I like the idea.
A little bit of context: I was thinking about movesets, as I do when I'm bored, and realized a lot of fan movesets use Geno Beam as his neutral special and Geno Blast for down special. I was thinking about the possibility of these moves being Geno's Side and Down Smash, respectively. But then came the issue of what would go in place of these special attacks.

So in short, just me getting bored and thinking about hypothetical moves in hypothetical movesets. Again.
 

EarlTamm

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Mainly the bit on how Smash isn't as keen on focusing on the fans right now, but rather, entirely new people. Sounds like pleasing fans is the last thing in their minds.
I didn't really get that sense. It seems to still be on their mind, they just wanted to also include new players.
 

Firox

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I personally love Nintendo's idiotic strategy towards the online. Instead of improving the online experience for smash bros, they'd rather just release more games that use the online service. I mean, I know that the switch has the cheapest online service of the three consoles, but why the hell do they have to make it so OBVIOUS in terms of quality? Smash Bros Ult players comprise the #1 largest base of online users right now. Why not invest in it instead of taking the moron's way out and just add more mediocrity to the online experience?
 

3BitSaurus

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Mainly the bit on how Smash isn't as keen on focusing on the fans right now, but rather, entirely new people. Sounds like pleasing fans is the last thing in their minds.
See, this is what I don't get. They claim they want to appeal to both hardcore and casual audiences (already a bit of a stretch), but then don't listen to demands that would most certainly benefit both. For example, better online features is certainly not something that affects just the people who are there for the ladder. It would help both audiences. Same with single player content.

While I still think communication has come a long way, some things will take time to change, I guess. At the end of the day, I think there are two Nintendos. One that makes games and hardware, and one that makes services. The first never ceases to amaze. The other... not so much.
 

Firox

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I think there are two Nintendos. One that makes games and hardware, and one that makes services. The first never ceases to amaze. The other... not so much.
Damn straight. Their sales/services division needs to just do the world a favor and commit SudokuTM already. They are the most idiotic collection of stubborn old fossils I've ever seen. Between crackhead naming conventions (Wii U and the new NEW 3DS) and being literally 10 years behind their competition in online services and features, they are by far an anchor around the neck of an otherwise masterful gaming company.
 
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GoodGrief741

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GillyGrime

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I don't think the roster NEEDS any subjective quotas but I do find it satisfying seeing certain quotas met ngl. Like the addition of K Rool and Ridley boosting the villains, and just Metroid in general being represented so well with Dark Samus repping the Metroid Prime games. I like Decidueye a lot for its design and such, but I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't be satisfying to see a trio completed with Incineroar and Greninja :upsidedown:.

I also just love Pokemon, seeing Gen 3 in Smash would get me excited. Be it Sceptile or hell, even revisit a scrapped Brawl idea and have a Plusle and Minun tag team. Gen 3 was my first gen and it holds such a warm place in my heart, so many amazing designs. Pokemon can have as many reps are it wants imo, the franchise is massive enough and characters diverse and loved enough to justify it.
 

TheCJBrine

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So I start reading the stuff on that Games Radar page and suddenly Firefox freaks out about a malicious attack it stopped which was going for bank account info (which I don't believe I have on my system), I have to force it to close with Task Manager, and come back to see the history spammed with the browser's name.

kinda worried now. My anti-virus didn't find anything so I guess that's good please.
 
D

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So I start reading the stuff on that Games Radar page and suddenly Firefox freaks out about a malicious attack it stopped which was going for bank account info (which I don't believe I have on my system), I have to force it to close with Task Manager, and come back to see the history spammed with the browser's name.

kinda worried now. My anti-virus didn't find anything so I guess that's good please.
Well good luck, hopefully it works again.
 

Ze Diglett

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ZeDiglett
So I start reading the stuff on that Games Radar page and suddenly Firefox freaks out about a malicious attack it stopped which was going for bank account info (which I don't believe I have on my system), I have to force it to close with Task Manager, and come back to see the history spammed with the browser's name.

kinda worried now. My anti-virus didn't find anything so I guess that's good please.
Yeah, that site seems to be a minefield of pop-up ads and scam/virus redirects. Wouldn't step foot anywhere near there if I had a hazmat suit on. Honestly, as long as you didn't click anything on that page, you're probably fine.
 

Ovaltine

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While I wish I could say how I see fan appeal is still be considered, the statement reads as anything but to me. First parties are essentially dead in the water with this, and in the case of our boy, he doesn't fit that criteria at all. Even Banjo doesn't. I still had some hope for the pass to be okay, but now my hopes are dead there. I'm going to hope for individual DLC, because imo, Nintendo made their message very clear. Glad I never purchased it honestly, and while this will appeal to people objectively, it basically seals the deal that we are far from their focus.
 
D

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From the article, I didn't get the message of "we're not going to appeal to hardcore fans or Nintendo fans," but rather, "we're not only going to appeal to hardcore and Nintendo fans," which means they're not limiting themselves to one thing. There's a difference between not wanting to limit what audience you appeal to and giving a hard "no" to appealing to a certain audience.
 
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The Anigriffin

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Eh, I think we're gonna get at least one new first party. What better way to introduce new people to a franchise than with a new Smash character?
 

3BitSaurus

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From the article, I didn't get the message of "we're not going to appeal to hardcore fans or Nintendo fans," but rather, "we're not only going to appeal to hardcore and Nintendo fans," which means they're not limiting themselves to one thing. There's a difference between not wanting to limit what audience you appeal to and giving a hard "no" to appealing to a certain audience.
Normally, I'd agree with you, but as myself and other people have stated above, Nintendo has a tendency of saying this and then ignoring things that would benefit both hardcore or casual - like refusing to improve online play.

That, and... well, Smash sold 12 million copies already. In basically six months. Hell, according to this article, it's basically the number one selling force behind Online subscriptions too. And yet they seem unsatisfied with the reached audience. I think there is a change of focus here, at least in regards to DLC.

All in all, things don't look so well for most of the characters I back if this is what they're thinking about before presenting options to Sakurai. Also explains why he struggled to put so many characters as Spirits/Miis/Assists. I'd wager he knew this would happen and thus characters like Isaac and Geno wouldn't be in the game in any form.
 
D

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Normally, I'd agree with you, but as myself and other people have stated above, Nintendo has a tendency of saying this and then ignoring things that would benefit both hardcore or casual - like refusing to improve online play.

That, and... well, Smash sold 12 million copies already. In basically six months. Hell, according to this article, it's basically the number one selling force behind Online subscriptions too. And yet they seem unsatisfied with the reached audience. I think there is a change of focus here, at least in regards to DLC.

All in all, things don't look so well for most of the characters I back if this is what they're thinking about before presenting options to Sakurai. Also explains why he struggled to put so many characters as Spirits/Miis/Assists. I'd wager he knew this would happen and thus characters like Isaac and Geno wouldn't be in the game in any form.
Well, this is the same kind if thing I thought before Joker was revealed. I thought Nintendo would go with picks that had, well, a strong Nintendo history. When Joker was revealed, it broke everyone's expectations and mindset of the DLC because of how unexpected it was. But Joker being revealed doesn't necessarily mean that Nintendo is completely changing to a certain method of DLC picks - it means that anything can happen. It means that rules or expectations can be broken. It means that Sakurai and Nintendo want to surprise people.
 
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The Anigriffin

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Whenever people think x thing about Smash DLC be it "this character can't make it because of a spirit" or "they can't be DLC because they're too similar" or "they're from a forgotten franchise, no one is gonna buy them" I immediately think back to Lucas coming back in Smash 4.

The kid was from a franchise without a new game in nine years at the time. He was both a trophy and well as a set for Ness's custom moves. He was a Japanese only character, and some thought of him as just a Ness clone.

He came back as paid DLC regardless. The kid had everything agaisnt him, yet there he is. Also before I get a "He was a veteran" response, so was Wolf. And Wolf didn't come back in SSB4 despite being a character released and known worldwide.

So my point is no matter how dead in the water a character might seem, there's always a chance.
 
D

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Whenever people think x thing about Smash DLC be it "this character can't make it because of a spirit" or "they can't be DLC because they're too similar" or "they're from a forgotten franchise, no one is gonna buy them" I immediately think back to Lucas coming back in Smash 4.

The kid was from a franchise without a new game in nine years at the time. He was both a trophy and well as a set for Ness's custom moves. He was a Japanese only character, and some thought of him as just a Ness clone.

He came back as paid DLC regardless. The kid had everything agaisnt him, yet there he is. Also before I get a "He was a veteran" response, so was Wolf. And Wolf didn't come back in SSB4 despite being a character released and known worldwide.

So my point is no matter how dead in the water a character might seem, there's always a chance.
How do I give posts an Oscar?
 
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Datboigeno

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I guess a big question with that statement is : what do they think would really bring in fans who have never played the series before? Because just looking at Joker as an example it’s not like Persona as a franchise has an incredibly different demographic of players than Smash. If anything I’d argue Persona is even less mainstream and more niche of a series worldwide when compared with Smash. It’s not like a ton of kids 7-10 are big Persona fans.

And if Joker is supposedly indicative of the other characters they went for then I don’t entirely think the Steves or Fortnite characters really line up with that. And to be fair there could be fans of Nintendo games that just never played Smash so I’m not sure it necessarily precludes first party characters either. I’m more questioning what kind of games do they think people play that haven’t played smash. Because, like, Smash is a pretty mainstream series as games go.
 
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3BitSaurus

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Well, this is the same kind if thing I thought before Joker was revealed. I thought Nintendo would go with picks that had, well, a strong Nintendo history. When Joker was revealed, it broke everyone's expectations and mindset of the DLC because of how unexpected it was. But Joker being revealed doesn't necessarily mean that Nintendo is completely changing to a certain method of DLC picks - it means that anything can happen. It means that rules or expectations can be broken. It means that Sakurai and Nintendo want to surprise people.
All you said is true - I'm not saying they will be "objectively bad picks" or anything like that. It kinda ties in with that theory that they might be going for popular characters that weren't highly supported until recently - it does seem plausible. Take that last ballot from yesterday, for example. There were some picks there that had no support during the Ballot - some didn't even exist at all. And yet, if they were announced, it would be a surprise and these characters would sell well.

My point (and Ovaltine's, if I'm correct) is that this could hurt the chances of characters that are wanted within the 'core' fanbase (like Banjo, Geno and others). Not even will hurt, could hurt.

Then again, we're all speculating here anyways.
 

The Anigriffin

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I guess a big question with that statement is : what do they think would really bring in fans who have never played the series before? Because just looking at Joker as an example it’s not like Persona as a franchise has an incredibly different demographic of players than Smash. If anything I’d argue Persona is even less mainstream and more niche of a series worldwide when compared with Smash. It’s not like a ton of kids 7-10 are big Persona fans.

And if Joker is supposedly indicative of the other characters they went for then I don’t entirely think the Steves or Fortnite characters really line up with that. And to be fair there could be fans of Nintendo games that just never played Smash so I’m not sure it necessarily precludes first party characters either. I’m more questioning what kind of games do they think people play that haven’t played smash. Because, like, Smash is a pretty mainstream series as games go.
That being said, they're also disappointed that people that played a free app didn't go out and buy a 60 dollar game so I honestly have no idea what audiences they plan on grabbing when the core audience seems more than capable of buying enough of their games to make them worth it.

Unless they're planning on targeting older audiences rather than kids. Which Banjo, Geno, and older jrpg characters could fall under.

I dunno.
 
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D

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Then again, we're all speculating here anyways.
Yeah, there are always numerous possibilities. Though I don't think there will be any "theme" or "character types" they go for with the DLC, but rather a mix. I think they mainly just want to surprise people.

The funny thing here is that, if a very unexpected character is revealed, people think certain other characters and their chances are dead in the water. However, if any of those dead, 0-chance characters are revealed, people will be surprised again. This keeps tying into the theme that we don't know what to expect and, no matter if anything is likely or unlikely, what's for sure is that anything has a chance to happen.
 
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Datboigeno

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My point (and Ovaltine's, if I'm correct) is that this could hurt the chances of characters that are wanted within the 'core' fanbase (like Banjo, Geno and others). Not even will hurt, could hurt.
I think that’s a bit of a stretch to parse out from his words when the exact quote was:

With Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, we asked 'How could we reach not only fans of the Super Smash Bros. series, but also those who had never played it before?' If you look at the demographics of the consumers who purchased each of these titles, Iʼm not convinced weʼve completely overcome these challenges yet. So our aims are to keep working on them this year, to expand sales of these titles to new consumer demographics, and to keep selling these games for a long time, which is one of our strengths."

He says he wants to appeal to consumers who have never played Smash before. That could mean so many different things and it’s good to note that he didn’t explicitly say “We want to reach more mainstream and casual audiences” rather just people who haven’t played before. To me that’s comforting because it’s not like Nintendo has ever been adverse to blatantly say they’re pandering to casual non-hardcore gamers like they did all the time with the Wii.
 
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3BitSaurus

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Yeah, there are always numerous possibilities. Though I don't think there will be any "theme" or "character types" they go for with the DLC, but rather a mix. I think they mainly just want to surprise people.

The funny thing here is that, if a very unexpected character is revealed, people think certain other characters and their chances are dead in the water. However, if any of those dead, 0-chance characters are revealed, people will be surprised again. This keeps tying into the theme that we don't know what to expect and, no matter if anything is likely or unlikely, what's for sure is that anything has a chance to happen.
I think that’s a bit of a stretch to parse out from his words when the exact quote was:

With Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, we asked 'How could we reach not only fans of the Super Smash Bros. series, but also those who had never played it before?' If you look at the demographics of the consumers who purchased each of these titles, Iʼm not convinced weʼve completely overcome these challenges yet. So our aims are to keep working on them this year, to expand sales of these titles to new consumer demographics, and to keep selling these games for a long time, which is one of our strengths."

He says he wants to appeal to consumers who have never played Smash before. That could mean so many different things and it’s good to note that he didn’t explicitly say “We want to reach more mainstream and casual audiences” rather just people who haven’t played before. To me that’s comforting because it’s not like Nintendo has ever been adverse to blatantly say they’re pandering to casual non-hardcore gamers like they did all the time with the Wii.
In all honesty? I feel like a mix is the best we could hope for. Sure, some of us might not get our dream matchups this time around, but if this is their way of giving a little to everyone through this Fighter's Pass, then I'm taking it.

I mean, look at my profile. Joker became my main. And while he was far from my most wanted, I still welcomed the surprise (he was announced on my birthday, to make things better).
 

Ovaltine

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In all honesty? I feel like a mix is the best we could hope for. Sure, some of us might not get our dream matchups this time around, but if this is their way of giving a little to everyone through this Fighter's Pass, then I'm taking it.

I mean, look at my profile. Joker became my main. And while he was far from my most wanted, I still welcomed the surprise (he was announced on my birthday, to make things better).
Eh, that's true, but I'd really love for something, anything to make me hyped again. At this point, Geno and Shadow are dead unless we get more DLC. C'mon, Banjo...
 

MissingGlitch

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Mainly the bit on how Smash isn't as keen on focusing on the fans right now, but rather, entirely new people. Sounds like pleasing fans is the last thing in their minds.
I swear if I am going to be sold 4 more playable advertisements I am not going to be to happy.
 
D

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At this point, Geno and Shadow are dead unless we get more DLC.
No, they aren't. Heck, even in Shadow's case, I think it's possible assists could be upgraded. I'm not saying it's likely or going to happen, but, when we have Chrom as a Mii costume, part of a final smash, and playable, I think at least something can be done, even if unlikely, to work around it.

And even if you think they are unlikely, at least don't be certain and dead set on it, like how, again, people were about characters like Ridley, K Rool, and Joker not being playable....
 
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3BitSaurus

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Eh, that's true, but I'd really love for something, anything to make me hyped again. At this point, Geno and Shadow are dead unless we get more DLC. C'mon, Banjo...
I mean, they're not impossible, just less likely. Then again, I'd love to see a character that was both a fan favorite and that people didn't think was possible.

Man, do I miss the screaming of the Cloud reveal...
 

Firox

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I think that’s a bit of a stretch to parse out from his words when the exact quote was:

With Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, we asked 'How could we reach not only fans of the Super Smash Bros. series, but also those who had never played it before?' If you look at the demographics of the consumers who purchased each of these titles, Iʼm not convinced weʼve completely overcome these challenges yet. So our aims are to keep working on them this year, to expand sales of these titles to new consumer demographics, and to keep selling these games for a long time, which is one of our strengths."

He says he wants to appeal to consumers who have never played Smash before. That could mean so many different things and it’s good to note that he didn’t explicitly say “We want to reach more mainstream and casual audiences” rather just people who haven’t played before. To me that’s comforting because it’s not like Nintendo has ever been adverse to blatantly say they’re pandering to casual non-hardcore gamers like they did all the time with the Wii.
Nintendo just reminded me of a saying: "He who is loyal to everyone, is loyal to no one."
 

TriggerX

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While I wish I could say how I see fan appeal is still be considered, the statement reads as anything but to me. First parties are essentially dead in the water with this, and in the case of our boy, he doesn't fit that criteria at all. Even Banjo doesn't. I still had some hope for the pass to be okay, but now my hopes are dead there. I'm going to hope for individual DLC, because imo, Nintendo made their message very clear. Glad I never purchased it honestly, and while this will appeal to people objectively, it basically seals the deal that we are far from their focus.

I wouldn't say that is 100% the case. It depends on who they were trying to market too. Honestly if they were trying to shoot a wider net for the audience Sora from Kingdom Hearts would be one of the most obvious choice to bring in. Popular game series to begin with, just released a new title, and potentially has Disney to back his popularity. Even Lara Croft, Scorpion/Sub Zero/Raiden/, or Crash Bandicoot are at least more recognizable than a character like Joker.

If they are trying to appeal to a wider audience of people, I wouldn't say Joker was the greatest choice either. DQ isnt a well known property in the west and a majority is leaning towards Erdrick as the next fighter. Keep that in mind, then look at Persona, which is even lower on a scale of popularity or being well known. In 2018 it was stated that the series in total had sold like 9 million copies worldwide. But this number is 22 years worth of sales.

I suppose Joker does reach a different kind of audience, specifically those who are into the JRPG scene. But even then, Joker is still from a franchise that is still growing, and isnt well known. So how many more players do they expect to reach with that choice. And if Erdrick is indeed the character being roped in as the next fighter, they further limit their audience with their character choices by only picking up characters from one genre.


I would be more worried about Nintendo focused on characters for promotional purposes. I personally think this will be the trend for most if not all the characters. Each character will probably be accompanied by some kind of future game. Could be a good thing or bad depending on the character.

Overall unfortunately if Nintendo is trying to reach more casual gamers or a more mature audience they've probably shot themselves in the foot. I think the biggest issue is with the switch and not necessarily the game itself. At this point I don't believe Microsoft and Sony are even worried about Nintendo because they are far behind technologically speaking of course. That being said, I think most casual gamers are likely to buy a ps4 or Xbox simply because it has more functionality or is at a cheaper price point. And those who want more of a mature library of games like Halo or Metal Gear Solid, Sports, etc.. are still going to be looking at a system that actually offers a larger catalog of those type of games.
 
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ZelDan

Smash Master
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Tetris 99 is actually pretty dope, so if we get more games like that to help prop up NSO, then I won't complain.

I'm pretty sure we've known about Nintendo wanting to reach a broader audience with Smash for a while now. I'm not really against this inherinetly if we get good characters out of it.
 
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