Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Teeb147]

It's official, we surpassed the Isaac thread!

Oh yeah. about time

Gratz. the Geno thread is now the top of the crop.

 

[MattX20]

...I just realized the next 10 posts after this one leaves me with a less than desirable number

 

[TheCJBrine]

It’s like you didn’t even read what I wrote. Did I say he was 100% voted on by trolls? No. I’m just saying it could have influenced his placement and that he wasn’t a significant part of newcomer speculation before rumors popped up around him. I mean cool, a Minecraft sub post advocating for Steve in Smash got upvotes. That’s not surprising in the slightest. Because it’s a Minecraft subreddit.

I’m pointing out that no one was voting for Steve in high numbers like now before Vergeben brought him up. You could try to start some tit for tat insinuation that someone like Geno got trollvotes for irony and big meme laffs (that’s what you’re implying, right?) but the problem there is that Geno has had consistently high placement on polls for years now. Steve on the other hand wasn’t cracking even the top 25. It’s nowhere near comparable. So therefore it’s logical to bring up context as to what has changed in the discussion of that specific character over the past year.

Tbh I don’t really see the point of pretending I support the inclusion of characters if I don’t actually want them in Smash. Even then I don’t even think the things that I’m bringing up are even half as harsh as the things people bluntly say about Geno on a regular basis on other threads and even in the freaking Geno hype thread for ****s sake. Like people regularly **** on him and his chances as DLC and overall worthiness for Smash here and elsewhere due to whatever logic they’re operating under yet when anyone implies anything other than glowing praise for another character here we get a wag of the finger and a lecture on being nice. It’s just bizarre to me. Again, I don’t hate Steve as a character but I think it’s completely fair to bring up factors that could have led to his high position on the poll when he hadn’t made significant poll presence prior to this.

I feel like if the only notable evidence in his favor is Miiverse and one Reddit post... Yikes.

Like, where did all them Miiverse fans go? 'Cause I'm not really seeing them elsewhere.

Alright, fine.

I guess Steve will never be taken seriously, despite how there is likely overlap with Smash's fans (especially outside the core discussion, as they may not care about core discussion) and how there's probably a lot of silent people due to Minecraft fans getting backlash if they so much as bring it up in some places because "Minecrap? gross, get out of here, and here are my views on why Steve can't get in Smash which are 100% facts and definitely not my own opinion and Sakurai will definitely think the same way so you're wasting your time." The crap that fans of characters on this board gets also happens to Steve fans and I've seen it on this website as well (though thankfully it was a minority).

And even if rumors gave people the idea, it may be an idea they really like and it just never occurred to them due to not thinking much before.

Frankly, I'm just tired of Steve being treated as a character that no one really likes, getting downplayed to nearly nothing in Smash discussion, and I bet this would still happen even if Steve got thousands more votes in polls. I hold no ill will towards anyone who simply dislikes the idea of him in Smash or just him alone, but hateful stances that I've seen before and the downplaying of his and Minecraft's popularity feels bothersome to be honest I honestly find the downplaying of Minecraft's popularity to be ridiculous; some people do it without even talking in a Smash Bros. sense. It's not like Erdrick rumors helped him any in the poll. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Steve getting votes from people who would be a fan of his inclusion even if they aren't hardcore serious about it like a lot of fans on here, anyway. Heck, I'm not even hardcore serious, either, I'm moreso happy-go-lucky; I just get upset when people toss characters out like garbage and say fans are delusional or non-existent. Tbh I actually voted for Banjo-Kazooie in the poll; I wanted to vote for Steve and others as well, but it only let people vote once.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Alright, fine.

I guess Steve will never be taken seriously, despite how there is likely overlap with Smash's fans (especially outside the core discussion, as they may not care about core discussion) and how there's probably a lot of silent people (if they even care about core discussion) due to Minecraft fans getting backlash if they so much as bring it up in some places because "Minecrap? gross, get out of here, and here are my views on why Steve can't get in Smash which are 100% facts and definitely not my own opinion and Sakurai will definitely think the same way so you're wasting your time." The crap that fans of characters on this board gets also happens to Steve fans and I've seen it on this website as well (though thankfully it was a minority).

And even if rumors gave people the idea, it may be an idea they really like and it just never occurred to them due to not thinking much before.

Frankly, I'm just tired of Steve being treated as a character that no one really likes, getting downplayed to nearly nothing in Smash discussion, and I bet this would still happen even if Steve got thousands more votes in polls. I hold no ill will towards anyone who simply dislikes the idea of him in Smash or just him alone, but hateful stances that I've seen before and the downplaying of his and Minecraft's popularity feels bothersome to be honest I honestly find the downplaying of Minecraft's popularity to be ridiculous; some people do it without even talking in a Smash Bros. sense. It's not like Erdrick rumors helped him any in the poll. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Steve getting votes from people who would be a fan of his inclusion even if they aren't hardcore serious about it like a lot of fans on here, anyway. Heck, I'm not even hardcore serious, either, I'm moreso happy-go-lucky; I just get upset when people toss characters out like garbage and say fans are delusional or non-existent.

I'm sorry...

 

[Firox]

It's official, we surpassed the Isaac thread!

Now, being an Isaac fan as much as a Geno fan, I really do find it amazing that that thread has done so well considering that Isaac is both an assist trophy AND a Mii Costume. Those two things combined seem like a pretty freaking hard deconfirmation of him getting in this iteration, yet his fans persist. THAT'S what you call devotion. Gotta admit, it's really sad that he's been benched so hard considering how awesome he and his franchise were. I'm pretty sure that most of the fan-generated polls I saw during the "Great Smash Poll" days agreed that Geno and Isaac were in the top 5, yet here we are....


Also, totally random question, but Teeb146, who is that girl dancing at the bottom of your comment and where is she from? And for that matter, why the crazy dance in the first place? I...can't stop....watching........need....context....

 

[Teeb147]

Alright, fine.

I guess Steve will never be taken seriously, despite how there is likely overlap with Smash's fans (especially outside the core discussion, as they may not care about core discussion) and how there's probably a lot of silent people (if they even care about core discussion) due to Minecraft fans getting backlash if they so much as bring it up in some places because "Minecrap? gross, get out of here, and here are my views on why Steve can't get in Smash which are 100% facts and definitely not my own opinion and Sakurai will definitely think the same way so you're wasting your time." The crap that fans of characters on this board gets also happens to Steve fans and I've seen it on this website as well (though thankfully it was a minority).

And even if rumors gave people the idea, it may be an idea they really like and it just never occurred to them due to not thinking much before.

Frankly, I'm just tired of Steve being treated as a character that no one really likes, getting downplayed to nearly nothing in Smash discussion, and I bet this would still happen even if Steve got thousands more votes in polls. I hold no ill will towards anyone who simply dislikes the idea of him in Smash or just him alone, but hateful stances that I've seen before and the downplaying of his and Minecraft's popularity feels bothersome to be honest I honestly find the downplaying of Minecraft's popularity to be ridiculous; some people do it without even talking in a Smash Bros. sense. It's not like Erdrick rumors helped him any in the poll. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Steve getting votes from people who would be a fan of his inclusion even if they aren't hardcore serious about it like a lot of fans on here, anyway. Heck, I'm not even hardcore serious, either, I'm moreso happy-go-lucky; I just get upset when people toss characters out like garbage and say fans are delusional or non-existent.

I think it's really more just because of the smash fanbase. Minecraft is kind of renown for being popular with a bunch of kids. So is smash, but not necessarily in the same way.

I'm indifferent towards Steve. I can see people not liking him because they'd rather have another character in smash. (Something really familiar)
I'm not going to bash the character, because Minecraft IS popular. I think minecraft deserves its popularity, and it does have something. I just would rather see someone else in smash.

Just keep liking who you like, and hopefully others will focus a bit ore on who they like too

 

[3BitSaurus]

Alright, fine.

I guess Steve will never be taken seriously, despite how there is likely overlap with Smash's fans (especially outside the core discussion, as they may not care about core discussion) and how there's probably a lot of silent people (if they even care about core discussion) due to Minecraft fans getting backlash if they so much as bring it up in some places because "Minecrap? gross, get out of here, and here are my views on why Steve can't get in Smash which are 100% facts and definitely not my own opinion and Sakurai will definitely think the same way so you're wasting your time." The crap that fans of characters on this board gets also happens to Steve fans and I've seen it on this website as well (though thankfully it was a minority).

And even if rumors gave people the idea, it may be an idea they really like and it just never occurred to them due to not thinking much before.

To be perfectly honest, I think people were more open to Steve during the base roster speculation. I think he could have a really unique moveset, but then there's the PTSD a lot of people in the Smash community has with newcomers with swords and thinking they will all play similarly. And then the base roster was finished and people started seeing the DLC spots as less of a bonus and more of a slot for characters to fight for... like it happens on every fighting game, frankly.

And when you think that he would be the first Western character (not counting Diddy and K. Rool), the first Microsoft character and technically the first indie rep... boy, that's a lot of toes being stepped on. Or at least that's how most people perceive it. "I think he could be unique, but then if he gets added, that pretty much nukes the chances of my most wanted character". Ultimately, I think every fanbase feels a bit like this regarding some other character.

... you know, it's things like this that make me think that maybe we should have actually gotten the Ballot results, if only so we could all get some closure and acknowledgement.

 

[Firox]

To be perfectly honest, I think people were more open to Steve during the base roster speculation. I think he could have a really unique moveset, but then there's the PTSD a lot of people in the Smash community has with newcomers with swords and thinking they will all play similarly. And then the base roster was finished and people started seeing the DLC spots as less of a bonus and more of a slot for characters to fight for... like it happens on every fighting game, frankly.

And when you think that he would be the first Western character (not counting Diddy and K. Rool), the first Microsoft character and technically the first indie rep... boy, that's a lot of toes being stepped on. Or at least that's how most people perceive it. "I think he could be unique, but then if he gets added, that pretty much nukes the chances of my most wanted character". Ultimately, I think every fanbase feels a bit like this regarding some other character.

... you know, it's things like this that make me think that maybe we should have actually gotten the Ballot results, if only so we could all get some closure and acknowledgement.

Extremely well put. As of now, I feel more like Nintendo threw the ballot almost completely out the window and used it more as just a confirmation for which of their main or upcoming franchises to focus on. With cases like Ridley, it feels like fan picks are more determined by sheer noise than anything else. Hence why we ended up with the "Everyone is here" theme. There was so much noise over veterans like Wolf and Snake getting cut from Smash 4 that they figured they would be guaranteed to please the most amount of people by at least giving back what was taken. Unfortunately, we'll never really know for sure if that was the case, but just looking at this iteration's newcomers, it does seem like the ballot didn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I'm almost positive that Chrom, Isabelle, Daisy, Ken, Incineroar and Ridley showed up SOMEWHERE on the ballot, but if the real ballot was even remotely like all the others I'd seen, then only K. Rool would have been fighting for top 5 beside the likes of Geno and Isaac.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be perfectly honest, I think people were more open to Steve during the base roster speculation. I think he could have a really unique moveset, but then there's the PTSD a lot of people in the Smash community has with newcomers with swords and thinking they will all play similarly. And then the base roster was finished and people started seeing the DLC spots as less of a bonus and more of a slot for characters to fight for... like it happens on every fighting game, frankly.

And when you think that he would be the first Western character (not counting Diddy and K. Rool), the first Microsoft character and technically the first indie rep... boy, that's a lot of toes being stepped on. Or at least that's how most people perceive it. "I think he could be unique, but then if he gets added, that pretty much nukes the chances of my most wanted character". Ultimately, I think every fanbase feels a bit like this regarding some other character.

... you know, it's things like this that make me think that maybe we should have actually gotten the Ballot results, if only so we could all get some closure and acknowledgement.

Pretty much. Reality is, some see him as a roadblock to what they want. That's fair, after all. He's a major gaming icon and has a strong chance of getting in.

What isn't fair is the extremely unreasonable hatred towards him getting in Smash. It's not simply disliking the idea either, as that's fine. It's things like conspiracy theories, flaming the fanbase of the character, and acting like a jerk when his name is so much as mentioned. These are absolutely not fine and just makes those fanbases look really bad. If we want less toxic fanbases, we can start by not attacking other fanbases, regardless of what they do.

(Will reply to the other one in a bit. Still collecting my thoughts. Was shorthanded yet again...)

 

[3BitSaurus]

Don't get me wrong, I'm almost positive that Chrom, Isabelle, Daisy, Ken, Incineroar and Ridley showed up SOMEWHERE on the ballot, but if the real ballot was even remotely like all the others I'd seen, then only K. Rool would have been fighting for top 5 beside the likes of Geno and Isaac.

True enough. That, and the fact that the ballot was advertised here in the west as... well, a ballot, instead of the way it was in Japan: a suggestion box.

At the end of the day, there will always be relevancy and marketing picks. And the Smash team can, in fact, think our suggestions are impossible. That's something we have to accept. But not getting any feedback about this can sometimes make the fans feel they're screaming into the void. I mean, look at my signature, for Pete's sake. Some of the characters I back have been sent back to the drawing board time and time again since the Melee days. In general, the ballot was a great idea - but it could have been communicated to fans in a better way.

Oh, quick note though - if I recall correctly, Ridley used to appear in top 5 in nearly all western mock-ballots. Apparently, he's more popular over here than in Japan - unlike K. Rool, who has a very dedicated fanbase in the East. That could be why.

Pretty much. Reality is, some see him as a roadblock to what they want. That's fair, after all. He's a major gaming icon and has a strong chance of getting in.

What isn't fair and extremely unreasonable hatred towards him getting in Smash. It's not simply disliking the idea either, as that's fine. It's things like conspiracy theories, flaming the fanbase of the character, and acting like a jerk when his name is so much as mentioned. These are absolutely not fine and just makes those fanbases look really bad. If we want less toxic fanbases, we can start by not attacking other fanbases, regardless of what they do.

(Will reply to the other one in a bit. Still collecting my thoughts. Was shorthanded yet again...)

Well... if we're going full disclosure, then this phenomena does not remotely limit itself to Steve. Not even close. I mean, even when going through more casual segments of the online Smash community, it's not hard to find people on Banjo/Geno/old character support threads mocking them as "literal whos". Understanding goes both ways.

And while I do question whether the Minecraft/Smash overlap is really as big as people think, that has little to do with my own "Banjo bias" (an argument people don't bring up often is that simply because a game/character is hugely popular, doesn't automatically mean there is a huge fanbase overlap for Smash. Or any crossover, for that matter).

Will I get upset if he gets in? Yes, because this probably means Banjo has been discarded yet again, despite overwhelming fan support. I'll probably be pissed for... *checks watch* about two and a half hours and then I'll begin speculating about the remaining characters.

I WOULD be pissed if they put Steve him and somehow made his gameplay generic though. That would just be insulting.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Lets not act like a lot of Steve fans are innocent of not being hostile towards other characters. You should see smash related twitter threads where they talk down any character that isn't Steve. Everyone is guilty of it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well... if we're going full disclosure, then this phenomena does not remotely limit itself to Steve. Not even close. I mean, even when going through more casual segments of the online Smash community, it's not hard to find people on Banjo/Geno/old character support threads mocking them as "literal whos". Understanding goes both ways.

And while I do question whether the Minecraft/Smash overlap is really as big as people think, that has little to do with my own "Banjo bias" (an argument people don't bring up often is that simply because a game/character is hugely popular, doesn't automatically mean there is a huge fanbase overlap for Smash. Or any crossover, for that matter).

Will I get upset if he gets in? Yes, because this probably means Banjo has been discarded yet again, despite overwhelming fan support. I'll probably be pissed for... *checks watch* about two and a half hours and then I'll begin speculating about the remaining characters.

I WOULD be pissed if they put Steve him and somehow made his gameplay generic though. That would just be insulting.

Absolutely not. There's tons of unnecessarily hated characters. Steve is just one of the more relevant ones at this time. Literally and figuratively speaking.

And yeah, that's fair. I really wanted a Gen III Pokemon in... and got Lucario. I liked Pokemon Trainer far more(helps he was based upon the Gen III era via the Gen 1 remakes). But I still found him a cool addition anyway(though I can't really get into playing him as is. The groove isn't there for me). I was quite disappointed when Wolf didn't come back in 4. I even thought Wii Fit Trainer coming in was trolling at first. I changed a lot since that Smash 4 moment(the WFT one). I realized being super upset over stuff like that is pointless, and just creates unnecessary anger. It's a game. It's one thing to be screwed over by RNG, or cheapshotted. Being annoyed at that? Yeah, that's a bit more fair. But that's just literally you being affected. When it comes to getting characters in, there's a way bigger picture.

That said, I'm not sure how one can define generic in Smash. What are you ideally looking for with him?

 

[Teeb147]

Lets not act like a lot of Steve fans are innocent of not being hostile towards other characters. You should see smash related twitter threads where they talk down any character that isn't Steve. Everyone is guilty of it.

I think you're right to some degree, but let's not try to generalize too much either. There are good fans as well as immature fans.
And that's where when you hear about the steve fans, some of it is unjustified but the rest of it started because there are actually a lot of immature kids that like minecraft. We can't really escape that.

Does it mean minecraft shouldnt be in smash? No. But it explains a bit why some don't respect it as much.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Lets not act like a lot of Steve fans are innocent of not being hostile towards other characters. You should see smash related twitter threads where they talk down any character that isn't Steve. Everyone is guilty of it.

A-yup. Honestly, Smashboards is one of the most civil places to discuss this stuff. Anywhere else, and someone would already have told me to "get lost boomer".

Absolutely not. There's tons of unnecessarily hated characters. Steve is just one of the more relevant ones at this time. Literally and figuratively speaking.

And yeah, that's fair. I really wanted a Gen III Pokemon in... and got Lucario. I liked Pokemon Trainer far more(helps he was based upon the Gen III era via the Gen 1 remakes). But I still found him a cool addition anyway(though I can't really get into playing him as is. The groove isn't there for me). I was quite disappointed when Wolf didn't come back in 4. I even thought Wii Fit Trainer coming in was trolling at first. I changed a lot since that Smash 4 moment(the WFT one). I realized being super upset over stuff like that is pointless, and just creates unnecessary anger. It's a game. It's one thing to be screwed over by RNG, or cheapshotted. Being annoyed at that? Yeah, that's a bit more fair. But that's just literally you being affected. When it comes to getting characters in, there's a way bigger picture.

That said, I'm not sure how one can define generic in Smash. What are you ideally looking for with him?

Ah, I meant that last one as a joke. As in, imagine if they saw the Toon Link mod, took it seriously and implemented Steve in a similar fashion. THAT would make literally everyone mad.

...buuut, if you're willing to listen for a sec, I think Steve would be at his most unique combining his crafting skills from his game with a multi-tiered character layout (a la Frank West in MvC). A character who starts weak, but literally builds stuff, via certain in-game actions, to increment his arsenal... And does not use just a sword for his normals, preferably.

Dang, I really need to start posting my movesets in the threads I follow, huh.

 

[TheCJBrine]

yeah there's some immature Steve fans but it's sorta like other fanbases, just it may be more-noticeable due to more younger people being more-emotional about wanting their character in over others. Not too much different than stuff that happens on here and other websites tbh. There's a lot of mature and nice fans, too, even if some may also be young. I've seen nice/mature people on youtube and stuff, and the subreddit seems to have a lot of mature people (of course with some immature people here and there and some posts having more depending on what's going on) this one server I like has a lot of "toxic" individuals, though, at least in one of its games I found to be my favorite, but it has kind people too.

I want certain characters over others, too, we all do, sometimes even feeling a bit emotional if one starts seeming to be more-likely than one I really want, but I'm not gonna spout hate and generalizations or anything, especially since I won't actually care and may even find the character cool or interesting in the end...and even if I don't? Meh, I don't care too much, it's a game so what happens, happens.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

A-yup. Honestly, Smashboards is one of the most civil places to discuss this stuff. Anywhere else, and someone would already have told me to "get lost boomer".



Ah, I meant that last one as a joke. As in, imagine if they saw the Toon Link mod, took it seriously and implemented Steve in a similar fashion. THAT would make literally everyone mad.

...buuut, if you're willing to listen for a sec, I think Steve would be at his most unique combining his crafting skills from his game with a multi-tiered character layout (a la Frank West in MvC). A character who starts weak, but literally builds stuff, via certain in-game actions, to increment his arsenal... And does not use just a sword for his normals, preferably.

Dang, I really need to start posting my movesets in the threads I follow, huh.

You should post your moveset ideas. I'm still finishing up the finer details(and two taunts) for one of my own favorite characters.

And I love that idea. That feels like Steve to me, the guy who slowly builds things up to end his enemies.

 

[Teeb147]

A-yup. Honestly, Smashboards is one of the most civil places to discuss this stuff. Anywhere else, and someone would already have told me to "get lost boomer".



Ah, I meant that last one as a joke. As in, imagine if they saw the Toon Link mod, took it seriously and implemented Steve in a similar fashion. THAT would make literally everyone mad.

...buuut, if you're willing to listen for a sec, I think Steve would be at his most unique combining his crafting skills from his game with a multi-tiered character layout (a la Frank West in MvC). A character who starts weak, but literally builds stuff, via certain in-game actions, to increment his arsenal... And does not use just a sword for his normals, preferably.

Dang, I really need to start posting my movesets in the threads I follow, huh.

While I wouldn't mind seeing something cool with building, we have to be careful with powering up in smash. Games with longer stock counts would give him too much power.

But if we look at how Shovel Knight plays in RoA, he does build up gems when you hit opponents (or fish, etc) which you can use to buy power ups. I think that there's definitely some potential like that, If it's done right.

 

[Firox]

Oh, quick note though - if I recall correctly, Ridley used to appear in top 5 in nearly all western mock-ballots. Apparently, he's more popular over here than in Japan - unlike K. Rool, who has a very dedicated fanbase in the East. That could be why.

See, I find it annoying and suspicious that some regions seem to get obvious favoritism over others. I suppose it's natural to favor one's own country/region over another's, but let's consider Bayonetta for a moment. When she was released, Nintendo claimed that she scorely "highly" on the Japanese and American ballots, but was "top pick in Europe", thus she got in. Well then, I pose the question, who the Hell was top pick in Japan/the States??? Why did Europe somehow act as the deciding factor? It almost feels like Tendo was already leaning towards her and it was just coincidence that Europe happened to line up. Of course, wasn't this around the time that Bayonetta 2 was coming out or being ported or something? Makes me wonder how much (if any) of the character picks are actually brought in by ballot demand or if they simply bring in whoever they're brokering a deal with and just say it was by popular demand to shut everyone up. I mean, I can see how Bayo could be genuinely popular, but I just think it's suspicious.

 

[3BitSaurus]

While I wouldn't mind seeing something cool with building, we have to be careful with powering up in smash. Games with longer stock counts would give him too much power.

But if we look at how Shovel Knight plays in RoA, he does build up gems when you hit opponents (or fish, etc) which you can use to buy power ups. I think that there's definitely some potential like that, If it's done right.

Yup, Shovel Knight was my secondary inspiration for this fanmade moveset. Except it would be materials instead of the Gems. I envisioned Steve as being incredibly weak at the start of every match, but gaining more damage and armor as he crafts stuff.

And I mean... I know this is Smashboards, but it's always nice to meet a fellow RoA player!

 

[Ze Diglett]

Don't get me wrong, I'm almost positive that Chrom, Isabelle, Daisy, Ken, Incineroar and Ridley showed up SOMEWHERE on the ballot, but if the real ballot was even remotely like all the others I'd seen, then only K. Rool would have been fighting for top 5 beside the likes of Geno and Isaac.

Worth noting that Incineroar didn't exist at the time of the Ballot's run, so he literally couldn't have had any ballot presence whatsoever. Not that it matters much, since fan demand isn't exactly the reason he got in anyway.

On an unrelated note, since I've recently started a SMRPG Randomizer run, I figured I'd impart a bit of cursed SMRPG knowledge upon you all. This may potentially ruin any future playthroughs for you, so reader discretion is advised going forward.

Spoiler: You have been warned

Okay, here we go.

So, you know how nigh-on every house in SMRPG uses the exact same shelf asset? Specifically, this one:

Yeah, well, for some reason, ever since my first playthrough, that shelf, to me, has always looked uncannily similar to Waluigi's face. (If you can't see it, imagine the cups or whatever on the top row as his eyes, the stacked plates on the bottom as his teeth in a wide, sinister grin, and the wooden barrier separating them as his nose.) So yeah, in my view, Waluigi is basically hiding in every single person's shelf at once, and as much as I'd like to, I've never been able to unsee it. And the worst part is, in the scene where Geno first awakens, who should be sitting right there but...

He's EVERYWHERE.

I dunno, has anyone else ever noticed this, or am I just a loon? If it's the latter, I'm dreadfully sorry for cursing you all with this knowledge.

 

[Teeb147]

See, I find it annoying and suspicious that some regions seem to get obvious favoritism over others. I suppose it's natural to favor one's own country/region over another's, but let's consider Bayonetta for a moment. When she was released, Nintendo claimed that she scorely "highly" on the Japanese and American ballots, but was "top pick in Europe", thus she got in. Well then, I pose the question, who the Hell was top pick in Japan/the States??? Why did Europe somehow act as the deciding factor? It almost feels like Tendo was already leaning towards her and it was just coincidence that Europe happened to line up. Of course, wasn't this around the time that Bayonetta 2 was coming out or being ported or something? Makes me wonder how much (if any) of the character picks are actually brought in by ballot demand or if they simply bring in whoever they're brokering a deal with and just say it was by popular demand to shut everyone up. I mean, I can see how Bayo could be genuinely popular, but I just think it's suspicious.

Oh dont worry, it's definitely suspicious, and a lot of people think that bayo was already planned regardless of the ballot.

I would say nintendo redeemed itself by actually listening for ultimate. No way Ridley would've made it if it wasnt for it. Along with most of the characters added.

 

[Ovaltine]

Terribly sick all of a sudden and on mobile so I can't say much, but look at how the Geno thread has grown! It makes me so happy!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Terribly sick all of a sudden and on mobile so I can't say much, but look at how the Geno thread has grown! It makes me so happy!

Hope you feel better soon.

Make sure to drink a lot of fluids(if applicable). Incidentally, your name is after something related to beverages...

 

[Teeb147]

Terribly sick all of a sudden and on mobile so I can't say much, but look at how the Geno thread has grown! It makes me so happy!

Take care of yourself. <3 And yup geno is in the big league now.
Kinda weird that we're talking about steve here now, never expected it, but i never visit the steve thread so i guess this is a chance to see a bit how people think about him.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Sakurai outright admitted that every game has a slot dedicated to a new Pokemon. Incineroar is that new Pokemon. That is on top of it being Sakurai bias because he wanted to make a wrestling character or else it would have been Decidueye. So yeah. Not every ultimate pick was made with the fans in mind. Fans wanted Decidueye if a starter had to be picked.

 

[Firox]

Hope you feel better soon.

Make sure to drink a lot of fluids(if applicable). Incidentally, your name is after something related to beverages...

Have you ever seen the movie "A Christmas Story"?

"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine? A crumby commercial???....Son of a *****!"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Have you ever seen the movie "A Christmas Story"?

"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine? A crumby commercial???....Son of a *****!"

I have seen the movie.

Remembering most scenes, not so much. The cat chair scene and all the lights going out are the most memorable to me. Only other is the turkey dinner splitting open with only hot air.

 

[Mastadoom88]

It’s like you didn’t even read what I wrote. Did I say he was 100% voted on by trolls? No. I’m just saying it could have influenced his placement and that he wasn’t a significant part of newcomer speculation before rumors popped up around him. I mean cool, a Minecraft sub post advocating for Steve in Smash got upvotes. That’s not surprising in the slightest. Because it’s a Minecraft subreddit.

I’m pointing out that no one was voting for Steve in high numbers like now before Vergeben brought him up. You could try to start some tit for tat insinuation that someone like Geno got trollvotes for irony and big meme laffs (that’s what you’re implying, right?) but the problem there is that Geno has had consistently high placement on polls for years now. Steve on the other hand wasn’t cracking even the top 25. It’s nowhere near comparable. So therefore it’s logical to bring up context as to what has changed in the discussion of that specific character over the past year.

Tbh I don’t really see the point of pretending I support the inclusion of characters if I don’t actually want them in Smash. Even then I don’t even think the things that I’m bringing up are even half as harsh as the things people bluntly say about Geno on a regular basis on other threads and even in the freaking Geno hype thread for ****s sake. Like people regularly **** on him and his chances as DLC and overall worthiness for Smash here and elsewhere due to whatever logic they’re operating under yet when anyone implies anything other than glowing praise for another character here we get a wag of the finger and a lecture on being nice. It’s just bizarre to me. Again, I don’t hate Steve as a character but I think it’s completely fair to bring up factors that could have led to his high position on the poll when he hadn’t made significant poll presence prior to this.

This, in my opinion, is exactly I how feel. just because peope have bailed on Geno to avoid the supposed disappointment, it feels like every other fan of every other character can come dump on Geno in here. But Godforbid I say I loathe Sora and a Sora fan gets offended. I mean, they have nowhere else they can go to vocally support their character, clearly.

 

[3BitSaurus]

See, I find it annoying and suspicious that some regions seem to get obvious favoritism over others. I suppose it's natural to favor one's own country/region over another's, but let's consider Bayonetta for a moment. When she was released, Nintendo claimed that she scorely "highly" on the Japanese and American ballots, but was "top pick in Europe", thus she got in. Well then, I pose the question, who the Hell was top pick in Japan/the States??? Why did Europe somehow act as the deciding factor? It almost feels like Tendo was already leaning towards her and it was just coincidence that Europe happened to line up. Of course, wasn't this around the time that Bayonetta 2 was coming out or being ported or something? Makes me wonder how much (if any) of the character picks are actually brought in by ballot demand or if they simply bring in whoever they're brokering a deal with and just say it was by popular demand to shut everyone up. I mean, I can see how Bayo could be genuinely popular, but I just think it's suspicious.

Oh dont worry, it's definitely suspicious, and a lot of people think that bayo was already planned regardless of the ballot.

I would say nintendo redeemed itself by actually listening for ultimate. No way Ridley would've made it if it wasnt for it. Along with most of the characters added.

Again, communication would have solved the problem. From what we know, there was data two weeks in when the ballot started. Meaning the things they said during the final presentation weren't lies, just... partial results. I can't find the source for whatever reason, but I remember reading that the fan support for her was ginormous in these first weeks. So there's that.

When you think about it, half of the things that makes the Smash fanbase pissed could be solved with better communication. I've no idea whether these things stem from NOJ or NOA (mainly because of the Ballot being marketed differently in Japan and the West), but the more channels, the better. I mean, yeah, there will always be things like people harassing the team on twitter, sadly (which makes me doubly sad as someone who unironically likes Waluigi), but it helps with these things.

For example, if Europe can make a difference for Bayo, why couldn't it make a difference for Isaac, a first party character whose popularity (as far as I understand, correct me if I'm wrong) comes primarily from there? Answers like these would at least help, methinks.

 

[Firox]

Remembering most scenes, not so much. The cat chair scene and all the lights going out are the most memorable to me. Only other is the turkey dinner splitting open with only hot air.

I legit just embarrassed myself lol-ing at the memory of the turkey dinner scene. Dang, almost outed myself slacking off at work...

 

[Loliko YnT]

Personally I’m hoping Brave is a first party/complete surprise like Joker rather than any currently debated character ie, Erdrick, Sora, Banjo, Steve... Gimmie a shocker Nintendo!

I found it kinda sad that we live in an period of time where people think 3rd party are more likely than 1st party for DLC because "hype factor".

Bruh Mewtwo. And Lucas/Roy.
Yeah returning veterans and shtick , but it's still a game exclusive to Nintendo's console. It was also used as a way to introduce people to new Nintendo series , (This is also why I really want the Chorus Kids and Chibi-robo , to some extent) shouldn't DLC be the perfect way to do so?
Not even somethin' like King Boo for Luigi's Mansion 3?
A BiS rep like Fawful , Midbus , Dark Bowser for the remake ?
Heck , Tom Nook for Animal Crossing Switch ?

Honestly , my big problem with third party is that a lot of the more popular one are humans like. You can do unique stuff with them (Bayo , Ryu...) but it seem like they can't do anything without a weapon.
And more cartoonish 3rd party (Why isn't Bomberman playable , I'm not even a fan of his serie , but why) aren't considered as likely for some reason.

They should be groundbreaking announcement , and people are like "Yeah it's okay to expect 5 differents 3rd party from 5 differents companies" , and then they are the one saying "Poor Sakurai should take some vacations ".
I dunno , always found it fascinating how so many people never took the time to step back , and look at the entire picture.

---

Didn't expected this much Minecraft talk.

Well I have to say is that it's a fun game , and as long as Steve don't break edges with his blocks , he would be a fun smash fighter.

I easily see why people would want him.

however , I would prefer the bear'n'bird just to get more Banjo-Kazooie games.
Even if Steve doesn't make it in , Minecraft will still be huge , that's why I would prefer BK , just to get more cool games.

Of course in a ideal world we would get both (+Cuphead/Mugman , please let me dream). So everyone is happy.

----

Also , just realized I have 60 hours logged into the BiS remake ... I still need to farm to get the best ranks for both the Bros and Bowser + The Boss arena.
Got all the golden medals on the Bro attacks and Bowser special attacks mini-games + found most of the broken stuff. (Forgot Bowser had a shell that gave him a 300 defense boost lmao)

It honestly feel a bit weird to play this remake. Not because "It's not like the original !" More like... "This might be it for a while , or even period"...

 

[Teeb147]

Again, communication would have solved the problem. From what we know, there was data two weeks in when the ballot started. Meaning the things they said during the final presentation weren't lies, just... partial results. I can't find the source for whatever reason, but I remember reading that the fan support for her was ginormous in these first weeks. So there's that.

When you think about it, half of the things that makes the Smash fanbase pissed could be solved with better communication. I've no idea whether these things stem from NOJ or NOA (mainly because of the Ballot being marketed differently in Japan and the West), but the more channels, the better. I mean, yeah, there will always be things like people harassing the team on twitter, sadly (which makes me doubly sad as someone who unironically likes Waluigi), but it helps with these things.

For example, if Europe can make a difference for Bayo, why couldn't it make a difference for Isaac, a first party character whose popularity (as far as I understand, correct me if I'm wrong) comes primarily from there? Answers like these would at least help, methinks.

While Nintendo is a great company, it's still a business, and doesn't have the best practices, like going after streamers and stuff like that.
Things are a little better than before, but anyway, just saying all businesses have some sus practices. Using europe was just to help justify what they were doing. I'm just surprised they didn't have another character planned after her from the ballot.

Worth noting that Incineroar didn't exist at the time of the Ballot's run, so he literally couldn't have had any ballot presence whatsoever. Not that it matters much, since fan demand isn't exactly the reason he got in anyway.

On an unrelated note, since I've recently started a SMRPG Randomizer run, I figured I'd impart a bit of cursed SMRPG knowledge upon you all. This may potentially ruin any future playthroughs for you, so reader discretion is advised going forward.

Spoiler: You have been warned

Okay, here we go.

So, you know how nigh-on every house in SMRPG uses the exact same shelf asset? Specifically, this one:
View attachment 216819

Yeah, well, for some reason, ever since my first playthrough, that shelf, to me, has always looked uncannily similar to Waluigi's face. (If you can't see it, imagine the cups or whatever on the top row as his eyes, the stacked plates on the bottom as his teeth in a wide, sinister grin, and the wooden barrier separating them as his nose.) So yeah, in my view, Waluigi is basically hiding in every single person's shelf at once, and as much as I'd like to, I've never been able to unsee it. And the worst part is, in the scene where Geno first awakens, who should be sitting right there but...
View attachment 216824

He's EVERYWHERE.

I dunno, has anyone else ever noticed this, or am I just a loon? If it's the latter, I'm dreadfully sorry for cursing you all with this knowledge.

How could I have seen Waluigi if he didn't exist at the time? But also, i dont even see it now ;p

 

[MissingGlitch]

The thing to take into consideration is people need to buy the DLC. That means that you need to make characters people want to buy. DLC is not the best place to start putting in relatively unknown characters to introduce people to other game series. Base roster is the best time to do that. There needs to be some sort of Hype behind their DLC choices or else the DLC won't sale.

Then again Bayonetta, Joker, and Corrine were DLC characters so who really knows how Nintendo thinks about DLC.

 

[Teeb147]

The thing to take into consideration is people need to buy the DLC. That means that you need to make characters people want to buy. DLC is not the best place to start putting in relatively unknown characters to introduce people to other game series. Base roster is the best time to do that. There needs to be some sort of Hype behind their DLC choices or else the DLC won't sale.

I think Persona is still pretty niche. P5 hasn't even broken 3 million sales.
So I dont think they're just doing it for the money.

 

[Firox]

The thing to take into consideration is people need to buy the DLC. That means that you need to make characters people want to buy. DLC is not the best place to start putting in relatively unknown characters to introduce people to other game series. Base roster is the best time to do that. There needs to be some sort of Hype behind their DLC choices or else the DLC won't sale.

Then again Bayonetta, Joker, and Corrine were DLC characters so who really knows how Nintendo thinks about DLC.

Right?! There's really no point in trying to nail down their thought process. The best I can guess is that they use the DLC for promotional purposes like upcoming games/inter-company deals or to revive classic franchises that they want to make fresh money on.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I found it kinda sad that we live in an period of time where people think 3rd party are more likely than 1st party for DLC because "hype factor".

Bruh Mewtwo. And Lucas/Roy.
Yeah returning veterans and shtick , but it's still a game exclusive to Nintendo's console. It was also used as a way to introduce people to new Nintendo series , (This is also why I really want the Chorus Kids and Chibi-robo , to some extent) shouldn't DLC be the perfect way to do so?
Not even somethin' like King Boo for Luigi's Mansion 3?
A BiS rep like Fawful , Midbus , Dark Bowser for the remake ?
Heck , Tom Nook for Animal Crossing Switch ?

Honestly , my big problem with third party is that a lot of the more popular one are humans like. You can do unique stuff with them (Bayo , Ryu...) but it seem like they can't do anything without a weapon.
And more cartoonish 3rd party (Why isn't Bomberman playable , I'm not even a fan of his serie , but why) aren't considered as likely for some reason.

They should be groundbreaking announcement , and people are like "Yeah it's okay to expect 5 differents 3rd party from 5 differents companies" , and then they are the one saying "Poor Sakurai should take some vacations ".
I dunno , always found it fascinating how so many people never took the time to step back , and look at the entire picture.

While I agree with most of what you said, most first party characters don't seem likely at this point. Not impossible, just unlikely. Especially because of spirits/ATs/Mii Costumes. So people will naturally gravitate towards that in speculation.

Also , just realized I have 60 hours logged into the BiS remake ... I still need to farm to get the best ranks for both the Bros and Bowser + The Boss arena.
Got all the golden medals on the Bro attacks and Bowser special attacks mini-games + found most of the broken stuff. (Forgot Bowser had a shell that gave him a 300 defense boost lmao)

It honestly feel a bit weird to play this remake. Not because "It's not like the original !" More like... "This might be it for a while , or even period"...

...This made me really sad because of how true it sounds. M&L and Paper Mario are such great series and fulfill different RPG niches that other Nintendo games simply don't. I feel Nintendo might be setting them aside because they feel it wouldn't sell like Odyssey or BOTW. But just imagine an Odyssey-sized Paper Mario (roots Paper Mario) and tell me it wouldn't sell well. Same in a M&L game with more open environments and field Bros. Moves. And as for the original SMRPG... well, this is the Geno thread. I don't need to tell anyone here my thoughts on this, do I?

I think Persona is still pretty niche. P5 hasn't even broken 3 million sales.
So I dont think they're just doing it for the money.

While Persona is still relatively niche, it's become way more mainstream than it once was... and if memory serves, P5 was the first SMT game to be nominated for best RPG in a long, long time. So it was bound to draw attention. And then there is Sakurai bias. Which, to be fair, is completely expected.

 

[The Anigriffin]

I’m pretty adamant that we’re gonna get at least one first party and I have a gut feeling they’re gonna be no. 2 or no. 3.

Especially if it’s for E3. I looked back and there hasn’t been a single E3 without a first party. Hopefully that doesn’t change.

 

[Teeb147]

While Persona is still relatively niche, it's become way more mainstream than it once was... and if memory serves, P5 was the first SMT game to be nominated for best RPG in a long, long time. So it was bound to draw attention. And then there is Sakurai bias. Which, to be fair, is completely expected.

If it'd drawn a lot more attention from that then it'd show in the sales too.
I guess I'm just wondering which games you would consider less known than p5, that would somehow get a chance for dlc.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like characters like Erdrick and Steve are the kinds of characters who I don't want in Smash, but that I like/am interested in trying the game they're from, since I do like Minecraft and am interested in playing the original DQ trilogy (it inspired Mother 1, one of my favorite games ever, so therefore is pretty similar to it and looks fun, though my favorite Square Enix/Square Enix-involved game will always be SMRPG).

And, other than that, I took a nap for three hours and woke up to The Haunting of Waluigi in SMRPG. I am both laughing as hard as Peach when Booster and Bowser kiss each other and confused as Bowser whenever Geno is talking to him.

 

[GoodGrief741]

My stance on Minecraft is that it's to videogames what Avatar is to movies. A huge success, but one I can't really attribute to quality so much as being in the right place at the right time.

The thing to take into consideration is people need to buy the DLC. That means that you need to make characters people want to buy. DLC is not the best place to start putting in relatively unknown characters to introduce people to other game series. Base roster is the best time to do that. There needs to be some sort of Hype behind their DLC choices or else the DLC won't sale.

Then again Bayonetta, Joker, and Corrine were DLC characters so who really knows how Nintendo thinks about DLC.

I don't think that's the case, or at least it doesn't need to be. Fighting games sell new or unknown characters as DLC all the time (Geese in Tekken 7, Tremor in Mortal Kombat X, like half of Street Fighter V's DLC). If Nintendo really thinks Nintendo characters on a Nintendo game on a Nintendo console aren't hype or wouldn't sell... Well, I think they're really mistaken.