Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I enjoyed reading your post, don't worry about it.

I also believe Geno has a shot, and to be honest, I think any video game character who hasn't been deconfirmed has a shot. Obviously some characters are more likely than others, but after being involved in Smash speculation for so long, I've realized something. I've gone into countless support threads because there are a lot of characters I'd love to see added, and what I've noticed is that many users in these threads compile information that works in their character's favor. Let me give some examples:

• Geno - Got Sakurai's seal of approval, Sakurai already got the rights for Geno and SMRPG, etc.
• Banjo/Kazooie - Microsoft and Nintendo's newfound friendship is the perfect opportunity to bring these characters back to their Nintendo pals
• Bandana Waddle Dee - Big role in Star Allies, which is still being supported through DLC
• Ninten/Porky - Mother's 30th Anniversary is this year, coinciding with Ultimate's DLC season

As you can see, people find plenty of reasons why their favorite characters have a shot of joining the roster. But obviously, all of these characters can't join the roster if we are indeed limited to one Fighter's Pass, no matter how much is in their favor. Part of this is the reason why I don't believe leaks and constantly preach that "anything can happen". While insiders and leakers can share their information on who is DLC, there are also these other factors I feel like people should consider and that is the many merits some characters have that can boost their chances of joining the roster. I feel like for a lot of people, even if they don't believe, leaks have this odd sense of credibility that can often dampen people's optimism even though nothing has been officially confirmed. I hope that by making this post, people in here realize that you shouldn't let leaks make you pessimistic, because you have to remember everything your character has going for them, what makes them special and a great addition to the roster. People are free to believe whatever mumbo-jumbo leaks are all the rage, but always try to center yourself and understand that nothing is official until Nintendo says so.

Geno still has a chance guys. Even though things have looked grim over the past few months, you just gotta believe that chance is still there because realistically, it is. We spend so much time looking at everything realistically and trying to understand situations from a business perspective that we lose focus of what we're really here for, and that's to have fun speculating about our favorite characters becoming Smash fighters. Look at those bullet points above again, the various factors that support a character's inclusion. Doesn't that make you believe anything can happen?

At this point I've taken leaks with the entirety of Salt Lake City, so luckily I'm not one of the sheeple.

Thanks to guys like this , if you ever dare mention the possibility of a character getting in even tho leaks don't support him , you'll be seen as a complete *******.

Leak culture in one sentence. The Ultimate general is a textbook case of this. In a way, the current situation is even more oppressive about this than the box/Grinch war.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Whats up. Been awhile. I have just been riding the Banjo train in the Banjo thread for awhile. Are we still in the same spot we have been in since a month ago?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Whats up. Been awhile. I have just been riding the Banjo train in the Banjo thread for awhile. Are we still in the same spot we have been in since a month ago?

A-yup. Apart from LaxChris thinking that poking the beehive was be a good idea.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I really shouldn't be replying at this point... but I can't just let you frame this situation like that. You've supported a character for five years. Great. That's awesome you've stuck around so long and kept on supporting a character you love. People should absolutely do that and be supported when they do that.

But with all due respect, so what? Many people have stood behind many characters before. And they will continue to do so. Seniority in support I don't see as inherently any more or less deserving of a character choice.

Meanwhile, you deny Erdrick supporters everything. I know you won't be convinced by the Dragon Quest legacy (Which is factual at this point), but think of people who never considered DQ much of a possibility or didn't know they wanted him til the possibility came up. People could have easily supported him from afar for years, or just learned that they really like the character and the series and want to see its inclusion in Smash. We do the same thing all the time by taking in new Geno supporters. Bandwagoning isn't an issue when people join for legitimate reasons and not just to be right in the matter at hand. It's actually positive growth for a fan community generally speaking and has brought us several new members as we promote awareness about Geno.

It's not a character's whose support is any worse or better than ours or more deserving or less, it's just a different character with different support. And they have their own merits for getting in. DQ wouldn't be getting in because some Smash fans took to the idea a couple months before the game launched, it would be included for completely different reasons. It's not some Geno vs. Erdrick fight of fandom and never has been. Stop trying to frame it as such.

And additionally, yeah, if a new character gains a ton of support, I have no problem in them getting over an older request. There's so many circumstances surrounding a character that it's basically impossible to look at them in a vacuum anyway...

Would you REALLY be okay with someone like... protagonist of Astral Chain getting into Smash. Even though they have no established fan base yet, like Corrin, because they're games weren't out at the time of their DLC? Seniority absolutely does matter, in my opinion.

 

[osby]

Would you REALLY be okay with someone like... protagonist of Astral Chain getting into Smash. Even though they have no established fan base yet, like Corrin, because they're games weren't out at the time of their DLC? Seniority absolutely does matter, in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind, they seem really cool.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Would you REALLY be okay with someone like... protagonist of Astral Chain getting into Smash. Even though they have no established fan base yet, like Corrin, because they're games weren't out at the time of their DLC? Seniority absolutely does matter, in my opinion.

Technically speaking, Corrin's game was out in Japan only at the time.

A better example would be a character from an upcoming indie game that's not even out yet. I mean the type that's had a dev cycle that dragged on for years.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't mind, they seem really cool.

Basically the same.
As long as they are fun to play with, they are welcome.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Technically speaking, Corrin's game was out in Japan only at the time.

A better example would be a character from an upcoming indie game that's not even out yet.

Would you say in this case that a fan favorite people have vetted for since brawl takes priority over this new indie IP? Cause I'd argue this vouches for the importance of seniority.

 

[Datboigeno]

I think you're seriously downplaying Bandanna Dee in particular there. He's easily become a staple of Smash speculation during this cycle and is the same position as Geno with a Spirit. He also ranked pretty damn well on polls regarding Ultimate newcomers and consistently sits near the top of wanted characters. That said, we don't even know if we'll get a fan favorite newcomer. That's just the one theory going around, and I wanted to say Geno and Banjo aren't the only two remaining characters that fit the fan favorite moniker and don't have the AT hangup. And similarly, we don't know there is another SE rep coming? There's still no guarantee of that happening beyond the insiders and leakers stating that. Which in general, I don't pay a whole lot of attention to and I generally thought this thread had largely dumped them as well.

To me it seems like a lot of the support for Bandana Dee dies off when he was revealed to be a spirit moreso than with other characters like Geno and Shantae. He does place highly but the emphasis on the DLC being surprising characters like Joker make me think BD is not in. Not sure if it was clear but everything I said in my posts is going off of the rumor that there are two fan favorite characters in the pack. Is could be bull**** but I'm just positing based on that theory. I mean I haven't been around too much lately because I've been busy but it sure seems like people are still paying attention to leakers and insiders like Polar and others considering the response to the Banjo rumor. I think some insiders have been essentially dropped from discussion but there are definitely still people around with legit information out there. If you want to discount them that's fine, but I think doing so completely when they've shown evidence of having insider information is silly.

I'm also less playing devil's advocate for the ATs and pointing out that many fan favorites still exist. With our current age of DLC and direct contact that Nintendo and Sakurai have with fans, I do think the rule of no assist trophies in game is increasingly likely to be broken. I still don't see it as super likely for the Fighters Pass, but I wouldn't be surprised if that does happen at some point. It's been another fan rule that I just expect Sakurai to break at some point, and if he ever does, the flood gates are back open.

I mean it's possible, but it seems at this point like Spirits are in a different category than costumes and ATs as far as being excluded from playability. It could happen at some point but like I said I don't think there's as much logic behind that happening.

Did we live through the same hype cycle for Ultimate? Because basically all the Geno support that this thread is built on originated after E3 and Ridley. He was an incredibly likely pick for a lot of people when the impossible started happening. And after King K. Rool, we as a thread went into absolute overdrive. I remember that very well. For the period between King K. Rool's reveal on August 8th and final Smash Direct on November 1st, Geno was an extremely common prediction and discussion topic for those covering the game. His name came up constantly and helped I think genuinely breathe a lot of life back into this community. And hell, even in the wake of November 1st, he got a lot of discussion for not being an assist trophy and not directly revealed as a Spirit. He was most definitely an expected character for much of Ultimate's hype cycle.

See you're still conflating someone being a popular pick with being seen as a likely pick. Even if many people within the Smash community saw him as being possible there were as I know you were there for people who said he had little to no chance. We still have regulars in this thread who think he has little to no chance because of the circumstances surrounding him. I'm sure NOJ and people like Reggie don't see him as a shoe-in when they don't even have the rights to the character and he hasn't appeared in a game in 20 years.

The fact he's in the discussion at all, even if a bunch of people are screaming him down, means that he's less unexpected because he's in the conversation more actively for inclusion. Him ranking very highly on polls makes him a known entity and more predictable as an inclusion. The mythos built around him as the unlikely one-off character that has stayed in discussion makes him less unexpected. All of that means that he isn't "unexpected." His chances may be lower, but people wouldn't be surprised to see his inclusion at this point because his name is so far out in the community. Therefore, he's not unexpected.

See you're contradicting yourself here. You fully say he's the unlikely one-off character but then say he's not unexpected. You can't have it both ways. The fact that he has the absence and 3rd party aspect going against him combined with him currently being a spirit are what would make him overall unexpected to the vast majority of people currently.

And that's what I mean by his lack of appearances not impacting the "unexpected" label. To people not in the Smash community, he's unexpected, but so is basically every other character to be honest. Once you factor in the Smash community, the fact he was so actively predicted as a newcomer for Smash and the fact that conversations about him have not died down and people constantly push for him (or even against him, all press is good press sort of thing) makes his a more predictable inclusion. His lack of appearances have impacted how people perceive his specific chance to get in, but not really the amount of discussion or attention around him in the community. He's recognizable, and for a time was an extremely expected newcomer.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Every other charater can't be on the same level of unexpected as Geno, a character who has been absent for decades and is owned by Square. If he's unexpected to most people outside of speculation then that means he's unexpected period. I don't know if you spend much time outside of this specific thread but the vast majority of people in the Smash community are essentially poo-pooing his chances of ever being in Smash after not getting into the base roster. Hence him actually being announced at this point would be unexpected.

I also think Nintendo can make big moves and announcements that don't involve fan requests. I think there's a big community of people out there for a lot of big name third parties who will be very pleasantly surprised with a lot of different potential inclusions. Including characters or concepts that people don't even know they want until they see it. I would expect a decently large move at E3, I just don't know if it will be a fan favorite is really all I'm saying. It was easier to justify someone like Ridley while revealing the entire game. A big fan request for the community fits well there, but a character this year has to hold up that entire segment and generate all the hype. As much as I love Geno and know his place in the community, I don't know if he's the best fit for that venue sort of thing. If we're getting Banjo, I think he's the clear cut best idea for such a moment since there's a lot more riding on his inclusion than most characters. A bigger third party also I think fits there because E3 is usually the place where those big games and promotions are happening. Geno has always been a more intimate pick to me and has just always felt like the Nintendo Direct pick. But that's also just me if I'm being fair.

Right, but my original point was going off of the theory that we're getting two fan favorites. That's fine that you don't think a more niche fan favorite would happen at E3 but I think that would be a place to do it. The rest of what you're saying here are just your own opinions of what would qualify for the type of announcement nintendo would make at E3 for Smash. I'm going off of what they did last year which was revealing Ridley. Like you said all of this is just your own biases. I'm just saying that I think having two big long-requested fan favorite character announcements would be a thing they'd do at E3.

Sorry for the long *** post. I know I can come off a bit pessimistic to his chances, and well I am to some degree, but I really do still support him and think he has a shot. I just also think lots of other character picks I enjoy also have a shot for the Fighters Pass and I'm not keen on discounting any specific one. I also admit that while I love Super Mario RPG, Geno specifically maybe doesn't mean as much to me specifically as much as he's just a cool rep from the game that I also love for having the most unlikely community of Smash fans come to support. So I guess I'm a little less invested and that means my comments may come off a little harsher than I intend. So, if that's the case, I really do genuinely apologize for the irritation.

I don't think you're the only one who errs on the side of pessimism for his chances. There are most definitely some people who spend more time in the Geno hype thread ****ting on his chances than being optimistic and hype about him. But I guess a thing for me is that in general it's weird to see people who don't exactly like Geno that much spending a lot of their time here engaging in more general discussion than anything about Geno specifically and being negative about him when he does come up. And again I definitely don't mean you specifically because tbh I think you do a good job of staying on topic and engaging with people on-topic when you don't agree with them. You definitely don't need to apologize for your own opinions. You should own them. But there are always going to be other people who disagree with them especially if you're erring on the side of pessimism in a hype thread.

 

[Loliko YnT]

At this point I've taken leaks with the entirety of Salt Lake City, so luckily I'm not one of the sheeple.



Leak culture in one sentence. The Ultimate general is a textbook case of this. In a way, the current situation is even more oppressive about this than the box/Grinch war.

At least with the box and the Grinch , we were going to get an answer soon and... If the Grinch was real , we were getting amazing characters everyone wanted or could at least understand why they were added.

With DLC , it's really dry.

We have almost no dates , and very few credible leaks. So when we get one of those (real or not) , people only talk about this.

So when someone step outside of the confort zone of leaks , people almost reject them and their ideas/opinions ect...

It's sad to see someone say :

"I would love Midna to be added in Smash , I made a moveset fo--"

"Nah fam , AT , ain't happening. No leak for her either"

"Well , I'm also a big Klonoa supporter for smash , did you play Door to Ph--"

"Lmao he's dead , and Bamco would pick Lloyd/Yuri instead. No leaks for him"

"S-so , what do you all think of King Boo ? He's a bit niche , but it's nice to see another Mario rep than Waluigi or Ge--"

"Luigi's Mansion 3 came too late for DLC my guy"

Like seriously , stop !
It became impossible to simply talk about characters that aren't in leaks because people are scared of not beeing right / hyping themself and getting disappointed !

And sadly , a lot of people entertain the idea that we shouldn't speculate about anything that has a lower chance of happening because "Hype responsibly" "keep your expectations in check" "Don't dream my guy" shtick.

Would you REALLY be okay with someone like... protagonist of Astral Chain getting into Smash. Even though they have no established fan base yet, like Corrin, because they're games weren't out at the time of their DLC? Seniority absolutely does matter, in my opinion.

I would understand the frustration.

In that case , it would be purely for marketing purposes.

It can be frustrating to campaign for your character to get in since years , and the lil' new one get in easily because he's special.

And then some people act "Man , be happy for the character's fans !".

While seniority do matter , having constant requests is a big plus (that's how Ridley especially got in ) I think there are just a lot more factors than that to determine if a character could get in Smash or not.

Once again , I understand the frustration , but there are a lot of others factors that are outside of our control.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

At least with the box and the Grinch , we were going to get an answer soon and... If the Grinch was real , we were getting amazing characters everyone wanted or could at least understand why they were added.

With DLC , it's really dry.

We have almost no dates , and very few credible leaks. So when we get one of those (real or not) , people only talk about this.

So when someone step outside of the confort zone of leaks , people almost reject them and their ideas/opinions ect...

It's sad to see someone say :

"I would love Midna to be added in Smash , I made a moveset fo--"

"Nah fam , AT , ain't happening. No leak for her either"

"Well , I'm also a big Klonoa supporter for smash , did you play Door to Ph--"

"Lmao he's dead , and Bamco would pick Lloyd/Yuri instead. No leaks for him"

"S-so , what do you all think of King Boo ? He's a bit niche , but it's nice to see another Mario rep than Waluigi or Ge--"

"Luigi's Mansion 3 came too late for DLC my guy"

Like seriously , stop !
It became impossible to simply talk about characters that aren't in leaks because people are scared of not beeing right / hyping themself and getting disappointed !

And sadly , a lot of people entertain the idea that we shouldn't speculate about anything that has a lower chance of happening because "Hype responsibly" "keep your expectations in check" "Don't dream my guy" shtick.


I would understand the frustration.

In that case , it would be purely for marketing purposes.

It can be frustrating to campaign for your character to get in since years , and the lil' new one get in easily because he's special.

And then some people act "Man , be happy for the character's fans !".

While seniority do matter , having constant requests is a big plus (that's how Ridley especially got in ) I think there are just a lot more factors than that to determine if a character could get in Smash or not.

Once again , I understand the frustration , but there are a lot of others factors that are outside of our control.

My stance is "I'm open for almost anything that could happen, and if I'm skeptical the universe will prove my fan rule wrong anyway". I mean people are EXPECTING to be disappointed now, so with any luck their minds will be blown out of their skulls when anyone cool gets announced outside of leaks. Good of you to mention my lads Klonoa and King Boo though.

Also, people would screech "Platinum bias!!!" since the MC would have even less history than Bayo.

Would you say in this case that a fan favorite people have vetted for since brawl takes priority over this new indie IP? Cause I'd argue this vouches for the importance of seniority.

Yes. Mostly because they have even more cold feet with indies than Western third parties.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Would you REALLY be okay with someone like... protagonist of Astral Chain getting into Smash. Even though they have no established fan base yet, like Corrin, because they're games weren't out at the time of their DLC? Seniority absolutely does matter, in my opinion.

I for one wouldn't be okay. Not because they don't have a fanbase, but because they're too new. I prefer when characters prove themselves and have staying power before getting in Smash. Of course having fans is a part of that; I'm all for characters like Rex and Spring Man making it in because they have legions of fans, whereas Incineroar, while having debuted earlier, is much more problematic.

But if, say, Mach Rider were to get in over Geno, I wouldn't be upset because even if Mach Rider doesn't necessarily have the fanbase, the history speaks for itself.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Would you say in this case that a fan favorite people have vetted for since brawl takes priority over this new indie IP? Cause I'd argue this vouches for the importance of seniority.

Honestly I'd be 100% okay with Travis from the Mother 4 fangame getting into Smash even though there is not a chance in hell that would happen, even if he got in over a character with seniority. He even got a Smashified render from Artsy Omni.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Don't mind me, just wanted to share a couple of Geno-related pieces (once again I don't know how to embed tweets):

https://twitter.com/BridgeOfFaust/status/1111713371055890433

https://twitter.com/TwilightYonder/status/1111892906766422016

"After 23 years of being whipped, burnt with a branding iron, carried around like I'm nothing, treated as if I'm nothing, and being verbally abused, I have finally escaped Square's highly-secured dungeon. I need to head to Nintendo's-- no... first comes payback, then I head to Nintendo..."

"Must perfectly balance everything to get even with Square..."

I predicted the future. saw it coming.

 

[Loliko YnT]

My stance is "I'm open for almost anything that could happen, and if I'm skeptical the universe will prove my fan rule wrong anyway". I mean people are EXPECTING to be disappointed now, so with any luck their minds will be blown out of their skulls when anyone cool gets announced outside of leaks. Good of you to mention my lads Klonoa and King Boo though.

Also, people would screech "Platinum bias!!!" since the MC would have even less history than Bayo.



Yes. Mostly because they have even more cold feet with indies than Western third parties.

Yeah , and people expectations got blowned away twice recently (NOBODY guessed or leaked Joker and a damn potted plant as a playable fighter in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch.) , that's a big reason on why I'm skeptical on leaks.

I'm not downplaying PolarPanda , he is a great guy , but I found it fishy that some characters are leaked while Plant and Joker weren't at all. (Yeah , early data mining , but it wasn't enough)

Also yeah , Klonoa and King Boo are awesome. Can't wait for Luigi's Mansion 3 , and the potential Klonoa book that the former Klonoa director is trying to make. It'll be nice to see all the stuff that were considered for the games : just seeing the unused re-design Klonoa had for the Wii remake make me believe that there is a lot of interesting stuff.

And I'll be the one guy in the corner "PLATINIUM WHY THEM OVER MY BOY WONDER RED !!!"

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah , and people expectations got blowned away twice recently (NOBODY guessed or leaked Joker and a damn potted plant as a playable fighter in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch.) , that's a big reason on why I'm skeptical on leaks.

I'm not downplaying PolarPanda , he is a great guy , but I found it fishy that some characters are leaked while Plant and Joker weren't at all. (Yeah , early data mining , but it wasn't enough)

Also yeah , Klonoa and King Boo are awesome. Can't wait for Luigi's Mansion 3 , and the potential Klonoa book that the former Klonoa director is trying to make. It'll be nice to see all the stuff that were considered for the games : just seeing the unused re-design Klonoa had for the Wii remake make me believe that there is a lot of interesting stuff.

And I'll be the one guy in the corner "PLATINIUM WHY THEM OVER MY BOY WONDER RED !!!"

Just for the record, Polar is actually a girl.

Honestly I'd be 100% okay with Travis from the Mother 4 fangame getting into Smash even though there is not a chance in hell that would happen, even if he got in over a character with seniority. He even got a Smashified render from Artsy Omni.

Maybe then, at least Nintendo would prevent the team from completely falling apart with their watchful eye.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I think some insiders have been essentially dropped from discussion but there are definitely still people around with legit information out there. If you want to discount them that's fine, but I think doing so completely when they've shown evidence of having insider information is silly.

See you're still conflating someone being a popular pick with being seen as a likely pick. Even if many people within the Smash community saw him as being possible there were as I know you were there for people who said he had little to no chance. We still have regulars in this thread who think he has little to no chance because of the circumstances surrounding him. I'm sure NOJ and people like Reggie don't see him as a shoe-in when they don't even have the rights to the character and he hasn't appeared in a game in 20 years.

See you're contradicting yourself here. You fully say he's the unlikely one-off character but then say he's not unexpected. You can't have it both ways. The fact that he has the absence and 3rd party aspect going against him combined with him currently being a spirit are what would make him overall unexpected to the vast majority of people currently.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Every other charater can't be on the same level of unexpected as Geno, a character who has been absent for decades and is owned by Square. If he's unexpected to most people outside of speculation then that means he's unexpected period. I don't know if you spend much time outside of this specific thread but the vast majority of people in the Smash community are essentially poo-pooing his chances of ever being in Smash after not getting into the base roster. Hence him actually being announced at this point would be unexpected.

I don't think you're the only one who errs on the side of pessimism for his chances. There are most definitely some people who spend more time in the Geno hype thread ****ting on his chances than being optimistic and hype about him. But I guess a thing for me is that in general it's weird to see people who don't exactly like Geno that much spending a lot of their time here engaging in more general discussion than anything about Geno specifically and being negative about him when he does come up. And again I definitely don't mean you specifically because tbh I think you do a good job of staying on topic and engaging with people on-topic when you don't agree with them. You definitely don't need to apologize for your own opinions. You should own them. But there are always going to be other people who disagree with them especially if you're erring on the side of pessimism in a hype thread.

You taking the two fan favorites as the basis for the discussion does explain some things, so thanks for that (I'm also not as familiar with that theory as I should be for a discussion around that TBH). As for insiders, the only one I've ever put any sort of faith into is Polar due to the fact that she's pretty direct and open about her information. She's the rare exception though, and I've found people a little inconsistent with which insiders and insider ideas get any sort of attention or fit into the sort of general acceptance of the thread.

I think we're approaching "unexpected" as a term differently is the thing. An "unexpected" character to me means someone not even in the conversation, or barely in the conversation regarding characters. Joker sort of fits that model because he had a small following pre-announcement and ranked 49th on the Reddit poll a few months back (https://imgur.com/a/esnqq3C) I would expect other characters to be along the same line. Characters that fans and people do not expect, and thanks to us, Geno has largely managed to remain a conversation piece across many different boards. He's a consistently high ranking fan pick (https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9ld79u/day_3434_results_randomized_smash_ultimate_poll/ and in the same Imgur link I posted above). We've kept the conversation about him going to the point where casuals who are a part of like the Reddit know who he is or of him. Again, going back to all the predictions for Ultimate, he was a constant presence in those discussions. That's really how I define him as more "expected."

I definitely get where you're coming from and I should have expressed that sooner. He's "unexpected" in the sense that his circumstances are less favorable than most and he's in a more complicated situation with extremely limited appearances. He also gets a lot of flak from the community, but again, even if people are downplaying his chances, I don't see them as making him more "unexpected." I honestly don't see that much anti-Geno sentiment outside of 4chan and Gamefaqs, and well we all know what those places are and the crowds they attract. Geno's just an easy target for those places. Now I definitely see some around here, and they generally are to the tune of "why" more than anything else. But I can't say that I see an absolute ton of that sentiment personally in more reputable places. Which does admittedly shape my view on "unexpected" to some degree.

But really, what it comes down to about "unexpected" is what would Reggie be referring to when he makes that comment? What do we define as "expected?" And really, the only answer I can come up with regards to that are the fan communities "expected" picks. I don't think the more general crowd really has what I'd define as expectations for Smash at this point. There's such a diversity to their thoughts and most will just name any old character they like and potentially want to play as. Expected in that sense, then would rely upon fan expectations, and Geno most definitely falls into that crowd very near the top of the list. I don't think anybody who plays into that crowd would be all that shocked to see Geno actually playable because of his name's inherent power in the community by this point. Chance wise, yes, he might be more "unexpected," but that's a level of nuance I doubt would be referred to or known. The loudest communities tend to get the most attention, and we're a loud and big community. I just don't think the whole not being a "shoe-in" for complicated reasons makes him "unexpected." I hope that clarifies things a little.

And honestly, I'm mostly certain that's just a bit of word salad for marketing purposes to get people potentially hyped. I don't think it has a ton of weight, but I did want to clarify how I see Geno in the "expected"/"unexpected" world.


I do like to apologize if I think I've come off too harshly. I'll own my opinions as much as possible, but I generally don't want to offend people by accident along the way and the feedback I get helps me make sure I'm voicing those opinions most comfortably and wording them in the way I want. So, again, I appreciate the feedback. I generally look forward to discussing with people when they disagree with me. And I naturally expect that for the most part when I do take a bit more of a negative stance on things. I would like to avoid ever being toxic or even approaching it though.

I also think just the absolutely massive size of this thread contributes to a lot of people coming in and out. And with Geno being a fundamentally unique character in speculation even by Smash standards, I also think that draws a bit of a crowd and leads to some of the issues and ****-posting and attempts to rile people up just because of the extra attention that we sometimes have around here.

 

[GillyGrime]

I think many people religiously discuss the few rumoured characters out of a sense of superiority for “being right”, and being right comes with it a smug satisfaction for many.

But safe picks are so stale and boring to hear repeatedly, especially when new suggestions and ideas can be entertained. I just think it’s more interesting hearing characters that aren’t usually considered.

It’s still not on to be nasty to anyone who happens to want a highly rumoured character. Banjo is my second most wanted and he’s lately been getting some attention with rumours. Other characters being in is not a spite against Geno or his fanbase, unless that character is Croco or some ****

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I think many people religiously discuss the few rumoured characters out of a sense of superiority for “being right”, and being right comes with it a smug satisfaction for many.

But safe picks are so stale and boring to hear repeatedly, especially when new suggestions and ideas can be entertained. I just think it’s more interesting hearing characters that aren’t usually considered.

It’s still not on to be nasty to anyone who happens to want a highly rumoured character. Banjo is my second most wanted and he’s lately been getting some attention with rumours. Other characters being in is not a spite against Geno or his fanbase, unless that character is Croco or some ****

I'm still holding out for my boy

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think many people religiously discuss the few rumoured characters out of a sense of superiority for “being right”, and being right comes with it a smug satisfaction for many.

But safe picks are so stale and boring to hear repeatedly, especially when new suggestions and ideas can be entertained. I just think it’s more interesting hearing characters that aren’t usually considered.

It’s still not on to be nasty to anyone who happens to want a highly rumoured character. Banjo is my second most wanted and he’s lately been getting some attention with rumours. Other characters being in is not a spite against Geno or his fanbase, unless that character is Croco or some ****

I'm probably the only guy that actively champions for Higgins and Bonk on here, at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm probably the only guy that actively champions for Higgins

DaxMasterix would like to have a word with you

 

[EarlTamm]

Huh, I just found this.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good Geno art, and I am certainly glad a certain heavy weapons guy is getting some attention.

 

[Ovaltine]

Huh, I just found this.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good Geno art, and I am certainly glad a certain heavy weapons guy is getting some attention.

The fact that he made Geno's number 99 is gold.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

DaxMasterix would like to have a word with you

I mean, he brings it up less than me, to my knowledge...

Huh, I just found this.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good Geno art, and I am certainly glad a certain heavy weapons guy is getting some attention.

Sweet, Nights is a fairly neat pick too.

 

[EarlTamm]

The fact that he made Geno's number 99 is gold.

How so? I think the artist is just numbering his art as he goes.

 

[Deleted member]

How so? I think the artist is just numbering his art as he goes.

I suppose that it may be a reference to something involving Geno.

 

[Ovaltine]

I suppose that it may be a reference to something involving Geno.

Pretty much. It made me think of his 9999 Geno Whirl.

Trust me, it's not the first and likely not the last time I've seen it come up. It makes me smile like a doofus, intentional or not.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In all seriousness that artist seems to do some great work, at least from looking at the various icons they did. There's even one for the kid from Grabbed By the Ghoulies.

Although they're probably the only person I've ever seen that champions for the Guardian General from Earthbound.

 

[Deleted member]

After seeing that art with Geno being prisoner, I think they should give him a ripped cape like they did with King K. Rool

 

[Deleted member]

After seeing that art with Geno being prisoner, I think they should give him a ripped cape like they did with King K. Rool

Would be cool, yeah.
Maybe not as ripped doh, just some bits.

 

[GillyGrime]

Which characters do you want in Smash that you wish had way higher demand and discussion surrounding them?

I really wish there was more talk on Balloon Fighter (though I'm fully aware Villager's recovery has squashed almost all of his chances). Also Aiai from Super Monkey Ball. Such a fantastic Gamecube game man. Both Square and Sega are sitting on some amazing IPs...

 

[Deleted member]

Which characters do you want in Smash that you wish had way higher demand and discussion surrounding them?

I really wish there was more talk on Balloon Fighter (though I'm fully aware Villager's recovery has squashed almost all of his chances). Also Aiai from Super Monkey Ball. Such a fantastic Gamecube game man. Both Square and Sega are sitting on some amazing IPs...

Mach Rider, Coco Bandicoot and Eight from Dragon Quest.

 

[GillyGrime]

Mach Rider, Coco Bandicoot and Eight from Dragon Quest.

However much Erdrick might "make more sense", I would infinitely prefer Eight and I'm not even a Dragon Quest fan haha.

 

[Ovaltine]

However much Erdrick might "make more sense", I would infinitely prefer Eight and I'm not even a Dragon Quest fan haha.

Y'know, it's kinda odd. I get that Erdrick is iconic and all, but... it seems a lot of DQ fans (I know you aren't, but I'm making an example here) seem to prefer Eight or Slime or something over Erdrick. It makes more sense, too, given they're both more well-known in the west. We all know Sakurai loves his retro reps, though.

 

[GillyGrime]

Y'know, it's kinda odd. I get that Erdrick is iconic and all, but... it seems a lot of DQ fans (I know you aren't, but I'm making an example here) seem to prefer Eight or Slime or something over Erdrick. It makes more sense, too, given they're both more well-known in the west. We all know Sakurai loves his retro reps, though.

Yeah I've noticed that also. I wonder if it's just a Western thing, and if Japanese Smash fanbase would feel the same.

Also as a lover of JRPGs, I hope to play Dragon Quest one day, just never really had the chance. I've really got my eye on the upcoming Dragon Quest XI S so I look forward to that (really not a fan of Luminary's design tho, what a bad hair day).

 

[Ovaltine]

Yeah I've noticed that also. I wonder if it's just a Western thing, and if Japanese Smash fanbase would feel the same.

Also as a lover of JRPGs, I hope to play Dragon Quest one day, just never really had the chance. I've really got my eye on the upcoming Dragon Quest XI S so I look forward to that (really not a fan of Luminary's design tho, what a bad hair day).

Actually, I've lurked a bit on nicovideo and 5ch, and... the Japanese fanbase seems to think similarly. They're like, "Uh, why aren't they going with a worldwide-conscious decision like Slime?" It's kinda amusing to think about. It isn't just us Westerners with heads full of question marks.

(Also I want to try out DQXIS, too.

also luminary's hair is ****ing disgusting get that boy some shampoo)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Which characters do you want in Smash that you wish had way higher demand and discussion surrounding them?

I really wish there was more talk on Balloon Fighter (though I'm fully aware Villager's recovery has squashed almost all of his chances). Also Aiai from Super Monkey Ball. Such a fantastic Gamecube game man. Both Square and Sega are sitting on some amazing IPs...

Captain Syrup, Master Higgins/Bonk, Klonoa, Jessica Albert/Slime, Ms. Pac-Man, Morrigan, Marco Rossi and Kongs beyond the big three, among others.

Yeah I've noticed that also. I wonder if it's just a Western thing, and if Japanese Smash fanbase would feel the same.

Also as a lover of JRPGs, I hope to play Dragon Quest one day, just never really had the chance. I've really got my eye on the upcoming Dragon Quest XI S so I look forward to that (really not a fan of Luminary's design tho, what a bad hair day).

It should be worth noting that Heroes seldom show up in any DQ crossovers, only the secondary characters do, so it stands to reason that fans would prefer the more colorful companions.

Actually, I've lurked a bit on nicovideo and 5ch, and... the Japanese fanbase seems to think similarly. They're like, "Uh, why aren't they going with a worldwide-conscious decision like Slime?" It's kinda amusing to think about. It isn't just us Westerners with heads full of question marks.

(Also I want to try out DQXIS, too.

also luminary's hair is ****ing disgusting get that boy some shampoo)

It helps that like Steins;Gate, the Switch version has some retro content.

Also, I can't help but feel that something is amiss, when a character has somehow been leaked since last year, it shouldn't be that hard to hide compared to Joker...

 

[Ovaltine]

Also, I can't help but feel that something is amiss, when a character has somehow been leaked since last year, it shouldn't be that hard to hide compared to Joker...

Especially since Steve was also 'leaked' around the same time, apparently as being available in play-testing. That has since been debunked as a huge farce. It makes me extra skeptical. Either the ball was really badly dropped when it came to Erdrick or something else is afoot.

 

[Deleted member]

I predicted the future.

Hmmm...

YOU CAN SEE THE FUTURE

I-is Geno in Smash?

 

[Ovaltine]

Made a sprite edit.

Would you protect this smile? Because I damn well would.