Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

Please stop talking about how suddenly Steve is an amazing DLC pick. My Banjo loving heart can't take it.

I felt the same way. It really just came down to me seeing what Steve could bring while being surrounded by friends who play Minecraft.

Now of course Steve might be good, but Banjo is better suited to my preferences. Personally, I'm in a mindset where it's possible we could not even get both, but I think Vergeben just knowing about "Minecraft content" is enough to keep me interested in Microsoft discussion. We'll see. My Big 3 just feel impossible at this point in time and I'm not one for raising hope for the sake of hope.

 

[Tetrin]

I want Steve, Banjo and Master Chief evenly (though maybe Master Chief a bit more than the others just because Master Chief vs Samus is my dream matchup). Banjo appeals to nostalgists and is an N64 icon, Steve is from one of the best selling game franchises of all time and offers quite a various arsenal based on his game, and Master Chief is from among the most well respected shooters of all time and has enough artillery to make for quite a unique fighter.

I'm also pretty surprised Banjo hasn't made it in considering he was so closely tied Nintendo for a while.

 

[Deleted member]

I want Steve, Banjo and Master Chief evenly (though maybe Master Chief a bit more than the others just because Master Chief vs Samus is my dream matchup). Banjo appeals to nostalgists and is an N64 icon, Steve is from one of the best selling game franchises of all time and offers quite a various arsenal based on his game, and Master Chief is from among the most well respected shooters of all time and has enough artillery to make for quite a unique fighter.

I'm also pretty surprised Banjo hasn't made it in considering he was so closely tied Nintendo for a while.

All three are equally legendary enough for Smash. I can't feel disappointed in three potentially great representatives. I want at least one shooter character in Smash, so either Doom Guy or Master Chief are my thoughts. Plus Halo 3 Fire Fight mode was never not entertaining.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I'm also pretty surprised Banjo hasn't made it in considering he was so closely tied Nintendo for a while.

That's what would make Steve's addition so heart breaking to me. Waited since Melee for Banjo to be added. Just so some blocky placeholder model with two animations could get in before him. It doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know, here's an interesting question, is there any character out there that you think is an inevitability when it comes to them being an eventual Smash newcomer? Like, you are 100% certain it's a matter of when, not if.

Waaaaaahluigi. Sakurai can't keep him as a comic relief punching bag forever (that's Sandbag's job).

Didn't he also mention something about wanting more axe characters compared to sword characters at that point in that interview? I am not sure if he was necessarily hinting at an axe character, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did another FE character it would be an axe character.

Incidentally, one of the weapons Edelgard is set to use is an axe, so that seems like a loophole to abuse.

Cranky is my most wanted DKC rep now that K. Rool is in, so a Dixie and Cranky tag team?

Man. You just made me want something I never even realized I wanted.

Me too. Two fan favorites out of the way, WITHOUT taking two slots? It's killing two Neckies with one barrel!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I want Steve, Banjo and Master Chief evenly (though maybe Master Chief a bit more than the others just because Master Chief vs Samus is my dream matchup). Banjo appeals to nostalgists and is an N64 icon, Steve is from one of the best selling game franchises of all time and offers quite a various arsenal based on his game, and Master Chief is from among the most well respected shooters of all time and has enough artillery to make for quite a unique fighter.

I'm also pretty surprised Banjo hasn't made it in considering he was so closely tied Nintendo for a while.

Banjo actually not making it in makes sense. In Melee, he was already difficult to license, which Sakurai dismissed. Then he dropped off the face off the earth in notoriety for a long time. With a less than stellar reboot design. His only real chance was Melee at that point.

Now he's not relevant in any way, and only was an n64 icon. He's not an icon of gaming as a whole, unlike the other 3rd parties. This puts him in a more difficult position, especially when Master Chief and Steve are significantly bigger gaming icons. If he wasn't owned by Microsoft, Banjo probably would be in by now.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Steve has a swimming animation too

And then there's Minecraft Dungeons with its fleshed-out animations that still fit Minecraft's 90 degree art-style without morphing the character faces unless you count slanted eyebrows...moving eyelids that blend with the face texture...whatever they did.

 

[Ovaltine]

Me too. Two fan favorites out of the way, WITHOUT taking two slots? It's killing two Neckies with one barrel!

...

Can I just say that was probably the best DKC-inspired adage I've ever heard in my life? Because it is. Holy moly.

As for Steve vs. Banjo, I'm obviously a biased party, but in terms of who deserves their inclusion... they both do. Steve is iconic in the current day, and Banjo was an N64 icon and put that system more on the map than it already was. They both have their merits in gaming history, past or present.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Banjo actually not making it in makes sense. In Melee, he was already difficult to license, which Sakurai dismissed. Then he dropped off the face off the earth in notoriety for a long time. With a less than stellar reboot design. His only real chance was Melee at that point.

Now he's not relevant in any way, and only was an n64 icon. He's not an icon of gaming as a whole, unlike the other 3rd parties. This puts him in a more difficult position, especially when Master Chief and Steve are significantly bigger gaming icons. If he wasn't owned by Microsoft, Banjo probably would be in by now.

There is one meal ticket; both him and Rash have their games on Rare Replay, and Rash has a Battletoads revival coming, so they could always have the Rare side of Microsoft represented by tossing both of them in; one for the older Smash crowd, the other for the new school.

And don't any of you dare to bring up Microsoft's recent tweet, after Minecon and X018, I've had enough of people crying Steve, only for nothing to happen.

...

Can I just say that was probably the best DKC-inspired adage I've ever heard in my life? Because it is. Holy moly.

As for Steve vs. Banjo, I'm obviously a biased party, but in terms of who deserves their inclusion... they both do. Steve is iconic in the current day, and Banjo was an N64 icon and put that system more on the map than it already was. They both have their merits in gaming history, past or present.

Thank you, thank you. you're too kind.

Besides, we can't forget there's no rule that no company's allowed more than one character in Smash. I'm more concerned about Sak taking baby steps in regard to Western third-party stuff. What if the Shovel Knight assist trophy is just it in terms of breaking new Western ground this time?

 

[Tetrin]

That's what would make Steve's addition so heart breaking to me. Waited since Melee for Banjo to be added. Just so some blocky placeholder model with two animations could get in before him. It doesn't seem fair to me.

"Placeholder model" seems a bit undermining for a gaming icon, yeah?

Minecraft has a huge following and is consistently among the most played games monthly, beating out even Fortnite in that respect. I'd even argue that Minecraft is more important to video games as a whole than Banjo just because everyone and their mom has at the very least heard of the game.

The characters have equal reason to show up in Smash, but saying one is less of a fair choice over it not being as appealing to you is unsportsmanlike.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The only thing going against Steve is that the general Minecraft fanbase cares more about the setting itself, much like Monster Hunter.

Heck, there are spin-off novels (official and otherwise) that don't even have him involved in any capacity.

 

[Ingenious!]

MissingGlitch So I know this is irrelevant to the conversation but I found you on twitter when your really p-Imean really mad

Also Nintendo Please just give everyone their Most wanted´s already like Geno and Banjo Please

 

[TheCJBrine]

The only thing going against Steve is that the general Minecraft fanbase cares more about the setting itself, much like Monster Hunter.

Heck, there are spin-off novels (official and otherwise) that don't even have him involved in any capacity.

it'd have to be either be Steve or the Creeper as the playable character, though. I know the fans would still love for Steve to be included.

Steve could feature a crafting/building or resource-gathering thing in his moveset, though, which draw from...said things in Minecraft's setting. A Creeper could probably fit more into the whole setting-thing, maybe...and it's basically Minecraft's mascot more-so than Steve plus I want to play as a Creeper without mods, c'mon Mojang.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

it'd have to be either be Steve or the Creeper as the playable character, though. I know the fans would still love for Steve to be included.

Steve could feature a crafting/building or resource-gathering thing in his moveset, though, which draw from...said things in Minecraft's setting. A Creeper could probably fit more into the whole setting-thing, maybe...and it's basically Minecraft's mascot more-so than Steve plus I want to play as a Creeper without mods, c'mon Mojang.

Not gonna lie, I'd find it hilarious if a series mascot mook got in before the protag, and unlike with DQ there aren't legacy/interchangeable heroes to justify it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not gonna lie, I'd find it hilarious if a series mascot mook got in before the protag, and unlike with DQ there aren't legacy/interchangeable heroes to justify it.

...So PIkachu? Cause that's pretty much what he is to begin with. Just like Slime is.

Unless you mean Pokemon Trainer wasn't really reasonable enough to have a spot despite being the protag, meaning you want an example where the protagonist(who is easily possible) is ignored for the series mascot mook.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

...So PIkachu? Cause that's pretty much what he is to begin with. Just like Slime is.

Unless you mean Pokemon Trainer wasn't really reasonable enough to have a spot despite being the protag, meaning you want an example where the protagonist(who is easily possible) is ignored for the series mascot mook.

Nah, I'm not talking series that have been around for decades. But the relative new kid on the block that somehow wouldn't have its hero be iconic enough to get in first, in favor of a doofy zombie.

Pokémon are more like virtual pets that double as chicken fighters.

 

[MissingGlitch]

"Placeholder model" seems a bit undermining for a gaming icon, yeah?

Minecraft has a huge following and is consistently among the most played games monthly, beating out even Fortnite in that respect. I'd even argue that Minecraft is more important to video games as a whole than Banjo just because everyone and their mom has at the very least heard of the game.

The characters have equal reason to show up in Smash, but saying one is less of a fair choice over it not being as appealing to you is an unsportsmanlike.

I just get so sick of being told recently "Banjo is a stupid literal who who's last good game was on the N64" when not even several months ago he was the most highly requested character in the whole smash fanbase. I feel like I always have to be on the defense when all Steve fans need to say is "Minecraft sold 5000 billion copies" and suddenly any criticism about the character is null and void. And to be completely fair. Steve was meant to be a placeholder just to have a player model in there till they modeled a proper one. The game kinda took off before they could do it so they just kinda left him as is.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I just get so sick of being told recently "Banjo is a stupid literal who who's last good game was on the N64" I feel like I always have to be on the defense when all Steve fans need to say is "Minecraft sold 5000 billion copy" and suddenly any criticism about the character is null and void. And to be completely fair. Steve was meant to be a placeholder just to have a player model in there till I modeled a proper one. The game kinda took off before they could do it so they just kinda left him as is.

Anybody dissing Banjo is being silly. But to honestly pretend he was an icon after the n64 games is silly. No, he really wasn't. He did okay sales-wise, but the series dropped the ball and had little popularity after the n64 games as is. Having new designs, different gameplay, and not being what people wanted was a pretty big deal. Their nostalgia is from the 64 era. And that's fine. That's their iconic thing.

Nah, I'm not talking series that have been around for decades. But the relative new kid on the block that somehow wouldn't have its hero be iconic enough to get in first, in favor of a doofy zombie.

Pokémon are more like virtual pets that double as chicken fighters.

Pokemon are mook enemies no different from any game with monsters. Dragon Quest actually started the idea of recruiting monsters to be under your team before Pokemon did too. So... it doesn't change what they are. The focus is just on recruiting mooks instead of simply fighting them.

They're still mooks in the long run. The only ones that aren't at best are the story-driven ones like Legendaries, and even some of them don't have a role beyond an Elite recruitable mook at best. People are way overstating their role from other rpg's. Yes, they still do mook things. It's just there's two types of mooks; the Pokemon and the Pokemon Trainers. Game is different in that way.

Pikachu is no more an enemy mook than Slime is, honestly. They both are their series' mascot. They both are hugely important to their series and have their own spin-off games. When the main Trainer of the series needs a Monster, they're both the default one. Pikachu actually took long to be the default than Slime. Really, the roles are pretty much the same. The biggest difference is that Pikachu's biggest role is different from Slime's. Pikachu's is via an anime, while Slime's is via his own game, Rocket Slime.

 

[Ovaltine]

I just get so sick of being told recently "Banjo is a stupid literal who who's last good game was on the N64" when not even several months ago he was the most highly requested character in the whole smash fanbase. I feel like I always have to be on the defense when all Steve fans need to say is "Minecraft sold 5000 billion copies" and suddenly any criticism about the character is null and void. And to be completely fair. Steve was meant to be a placeholder just to have a player model in there till they modeled a proper one. The game kinda took off before they could do it so they just kinda left him as is.

Man, I get told that about Banjo and Geno all the time, but... we really can't be fighting with entire fanbases when not all of them do that. Yeah, it sucks that we're kinda left in the dust, and our personal emotions and attachments are at a high, but let's make love and not war. This goes both ways.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Meanwhile, Hudson Soft's former big boys Master Higgins and Bonk aren't even noticed at all. Their support threads' combined posts can be counted on my two hands. Edit: Even worse, I recounted and they all fit on one hand!

Compared to them, Geno and Banjo are lucky to get so much love and support.

Pokemon are mook enemies no different from any game with monsters. Dragon Quest actually started the idea of recruiting monsters to be under your team before Pokemon did too. So... it doesn't change what they are. The focus is just on recruiting mooks instead of simply fighting them.

They're still mooks in the long run. The only ones that aren't at best are the story-driven ones like Legendaries, and even some of them don't have a role beyond an Elite recruitable mook at best. People are way overstating their role from other rpg's. Yes, they still do mook things. It's just there's two types of mooks; the Pokemon and the Pokemon Trainers. Game is different in that way.

Pikachu is no more an enemy mook than Slime is, honestly. They both are their series' mascot. They both are hugely important to their series and have their own spin-off games. When the main Trainer of the series needs a Monster, they're both the default one. Pikachu actually took long to be the default than Slime. Really, the roles are pretty much the same. The biggest difference is that Pikachu's biggest role is different from Slime's. Pikachu's is via an anime, while Slime's is via his own game, Rocket Slime.

I just mean, DQ and Pokémon have been around long enough that their mascot monsters getting attention is to be expected by people.

As for Minecraft, everyone involved with Smash expects Steve to be playable. A Creeper getting in over him would be funny in a cosmic way, given Steve's reputation of being a former placeholder that doesn't have much of a standout design.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Meanwhile, Hudson Soft's former big boys Master Higgins and Bonk aren't even noticed at all. Their support threads' combined posts can be counted on my two hands.

Compared to them, Geno and Banjo are lucky to get so much love and support.

...Damn, not even the Brian thread is that bad. Ouchhhhhh.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I just get so sick of being told recently "Banjo is a stupid literal who who's last good game was on the N64" when not even several months ago he was the most highly requested character in the whole smash fanbase. I feel like I always have to be on the defense when all Steve fans need to say is "Minecraft sold 5000 billion copies" and suddenly any criticism about the character is null and void. And to be completely fair. Steve was meant to be a placeholder just to have a player model in there till they modeled a proper one. The game kinda took off before they could do it so they just kinda left him as is.

I haven't seen any Steve fans being hateful other than when I saw the trolls from 4chan and GameFaqs, but tbh I don't search for 'em so I'm sure there are legit toxic fans out there...but hating a character based on toxic fans always seemed like a bad excuse to me, mainly because you have the same jerks in every fanbase. Sorry there are jerks bashing B-K, though...I'd love both/all threeie yey I'm over-using this pun.

As for the placeholder model thing...is that info based on the Steve, Black Steve, Rana, and Beast Boy models that an artist made for the game, which were all removed when he left during the same development phase in which they were added as NPCs? I guess they were all made as a new style for the game, but since Notch nor anyone else in Mojang ever pursued another artist or anything for changing the models and such even though the game was just being worked on with no set planned "full version" goal...with the dev builds being publicly available for purchase...I'm not sure "placeholder" is entirely accurate as it was intended to be a block game...

-of course that's entirely plausible, tbh with all the textures and stuff they worked to make and code it sounds kinda funny if it's true.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I'm really sorry. I am getting really emotional about all this. So I used some harsh words. I really shouldn't be talking down other people's picks like that. It just gets so hard some times.

 

[Luigifan18]

MissingGlitch So I know this is irrelevant to the conversation but I found you on twitter when your really p-Imean really mad

Also Nintendo Please just give everyone their Most wanted´s already like Geno and Banjo Please

What on God's Earth is that?!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm really sorry. I am getting really emotional about all this. So I used some harsh words. I really shouldn't be talking down other people's picks like that. It just gets so hard some times.

People shouldn't be dissing any character choice to begin with.

Which isn't the same as criticism. I like a ton of characters myself. Regardless of "origin". But I just don't find those silly things a good reason to stop supporting them. It doesn't mean I think a lot of my wants have a chance in hell, of course, heh.

 

[MissingGlitch]

MissingGlitch So I know this is irrelevant to the conversation but I found you on twitter when your really p-Imean really mad

Also Nintendo Please just give everyone their Most wanted´s already like Geno and Banjo Please

Did you actually find my Twitter? I mean, it wouldn't be hard to find. But I don't recall being super mean on it besides maybe doing some return ****posting with someone ****posting Steve.

 

[Tetrin]

I just get so sick of being told recently "Banjo is a stupid literal who who's last good game was on the N64" when not even several months ago he was the most highly requested character in the whole smash fanbase. I feel like I always have to be on the defense when all Steve fans need to say is "Minecraft sold 5000 billion copies" and suddenly any criticism about the character is null and void. And to be completely fair. Steve was meant to be a placeholder just to have a player model in there till they modeled a proper one. The game kinda took off before they could do it so they just kinda left him as is.

Minecraft selling a lot isn't the only reason people want Steve in the game. Steve is instantly recognizable, has a large arsenal of weapons and blocks to choose from, and is no doubt a gaming legend. Most likely, the reason your criticisms are dismissed as null and void is because you're saying the character's inclusion is "unfair" just because Banjo, a character whose requests only skyrocketed recently, has more personal attachment.

I know Steve is a placeholder model technically, but that wasn't the point I was trying to convey. What I meant was calling him nothing more than a "blocky placeholder model with two animations" is completely negligent of his influence, potential, fanservice, and game as a whole.

But that's enough out of me. Despite my tendency to derail the thread with nearly every post, I feel like pitting two characters with valid arguments on both ends against each other is well past the bounds of "Geno support".

Edit: And in the midst of writing this, you apologized. Well that just further solidifies the ceasefire, I suppose.

 

[Ovaltine]

I'm really sorry. I am getting really emotional about all this. So I used some harsh words. I really shouldn't be talking down other people's picks like that. It just gets so hard some times.

I know. It really sucks when it keeps seeming like it's your favorite's time to shine, not just in Smash, but just as a general revival. It sucks even more when their opposition are characters that don't need revivals. Those characters at least have prominence outside of Smash and their dead home series. Steve has Minecraft, Erdrick is a legend in DQ... whereas Banjo's series is dead in the water and Geno hasn't had a main appearance since the 90s.

I think that's what makes this so hard on us, and it's why we get so emotional and high-strung. If these characters had anything outside of Smash, it'd be fine. I got over Shadow not being in pretty quickly because he still has relevance in Sonic to this day. Geno doesn't have that. Banjo doesn't have that.

That being said, we shouldn't trash other fanbases for this when their picks are deserving and their opinions are valid. All I can hope is that, if their picks get in, maybe they can cash in a little prayer for our guys to get revivals outside of Smash. Really, Geno in Smash is really just part of the ultimate goal for me: I want our boy back. It doesn't even have to be in Smash. It can be anything. Anything! We want him to have a role again, and not just as a PNG or his likeness as a costume. We want him to return in full-fledged glory.

It... It sucks a lot. I think that's why people are so defensive when it comes to Banjo and Geno. "Well, at least your picks actually get some love from their creators." That sort of thing. It's kind of a jealousy thing, and I wish we were that lucky. If others get their picks, I'll be very happy for them, genuinely so. I just hope ours get what they deserve one day, too.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

...Damn, not even the Brian thread is that bad. Ouchhhhhh.

Yeah, you have no idea how hard it is to be a Higgins/Bonk supporter.

They didn't even get to show up in Super Bomberman R, yet Princess Tomato got a bomber form over them. Princess Tomato. Who wasn't even the main character of her own game!

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'd actually love Banjo-Kazooie as well, not just Steve.

B-K is one of the first videogames I played if not the first (I might've played a couple of 8-bit games before it, whatever they were...), having known the game since I was 4 years old and always loving it...and Minecraft is the game I have grown up with since I was 11, loving its blocky world and the Creeper in particular (it's green and it explodes, how can you not love it?). I actually have nostalgia for the old terrain generation in Minecraft, though I guess I got used to the new terrain generation since I don't feel bad or complain about it anymore...even if the new terrain does feel very same-y compared to the old...

 

[Deleted member]

Banjo-Kazooie is my choice for a Microsoft rep. I think they would be really cool

 

[Ingenious!]

What on God's Earth is that?!

PF idk I just found it a thread talking about a cursed Gamecube controller X) (imsorry)

Did you actually find my Twitter? I mean, it wouldn't be hard to find. But I don't recall being super mean on it besides maybe doing some return ****posting with someone ****posting Steve.

Naw, I just thought you would like to use it in some way for some reason

Honestly, those people need to realize we're all in this together (WEREALLINTHISTOGETHAA-) with getting our wants into smash, everyone's character deserves to get in and I hope one day well see a day where most of the hate for others characters turns into support for everyone -u-

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

PF idk I just found it a thread talking about a cursed Gamecube controller X) (imsorry)

Naw, I just thought you would like to use it in some way for some reason

Honestly, those people need to realize we're all in this together (WEREALLINTHISTOGETHAA-) with getting our wants into smash, everyone's character deserves to get in and I hope one day well see a day where most of the hate for others characters turns into support for everyone -u-

Well, any game/public domain character. Licensed is a different kettle of fish, but you get what I mean.

Inspirational, otherwise.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Geno is in! As a skin for Steve. Please Understand.

 

[Deleted member]

Geno is in! As a skin for Steve. Please Understand.

No I will not understand

 

[MissingGlitch]

No I will not understand

But hey. At least that isn't a legit fear for Geno fans....banjo fans on the other hand.

 

[Deleted member]

But hey. At least that isn't a legit fear for Geno fans....banjo fans on the other hand.

Is it because they had a skin for Banjo in Minecraft?

In Smash, they only make an alt for one character to reference another character if they are from the same series

 

[Tetrin]

But hey. At least that isn't a legit fear for Geno fans....banjo fans on the other hand.

Relax, Microsoft wouldn't stoop so low as to include a much more highly requested character as a mere skin for Steve.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Steve's alts. would most-likely just be him and Alex with different-colored clothing.

Maybe a Herobrine alt. That'd be cool.

 

[Deleted member]

Steve's alts. would most-likely just be him and Alex with different-colored clothing.

Maybe a Herobrine alt. That'd be cool.

Creeper alt