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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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KirbyWorshipper2465

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In regards to that supposed 5Chan leak, the main reason I find it dubious is that three of the characters are expected (even Doom marine, since a fair bit of people are openly wanting to see him), which goes against the intent of the Fighter Pass in the first place. In order for it to be proven fake, only one of these announced characters must not be on it.

And didn't Polar or someone else mention that no one knows what the DLC is? That we suddenly get a leak that dates from September, and somehow managed to dodge the Nintendo ninjas, seems a little too convenient.

TLDR; I just don't know about this...
 

Datboigeno

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Honestly, I feel like something might end up happening for Geno, too, but I don't think the NoA/HQ stuff necessarily means anything in terms of what is coming. If anything, NoA might be specifically pushing for Geno. I'm damn positive that they're very aware of his popularity, especially since Geno as DLC is a rumor around NoA. They might just be trying to push that for NoJ and Square to see, the results of which are unknown.
Eh idk. I don’t see them making a social media posts like that solely to show NoJ/SE that Geno is popular. I’m sure they already have plenty of data from things like the ballot at this point to back up the fact that he’s a popular character. And from Sakurai mentioning him as being popular a couple years ago to him being on the list of SE names I’m 100% sure NoJ and SE already know he’s popular.
 

NathanD

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I think they should recycle the Mario RPG. Imagine how cool the modern combat system could be. To bolster those sales maybe throw Geno in smash. I'd cry.

What a great game. I hope it's not forever lost to time and I was surprised other people had even heard of it.
 

ShroomEL

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There's a couple folks I would die of excitement for as Dlc reveals
- Geno is obviously one
- Despite being impossible now due to AT, Midna and Wolf Link as one fighter, Twilight princess is my favorite Zelda to this day (unpopular opinion) Midna was an awesome character, and it may be another Link, but Midna combined could make for a more original moveset than Sword and Projectiles
- If Geno was absolutely impossible, another Mario Rpg game rep such as Paper Mario (based on 64 and TTYD) or Fawful would still be pretty cool
 

Ovaltine

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Paper Mario (based on 64 and TTYD)
I would love this so much, even though I know how impossible it is, because Nintendo just hates Good Paper Mario™, for some reason.

The state of the Mario RPG is a sad one nowadays.
 
D

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I would love this so much, even though I know how impossible it is, because Nintendo just hates Good Paper Mario™, for some reason.

The state of the Mario RPG is a sad one nowadays.
I promise, it will eventually be a happy one :)
 

ShroomEL

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I would love this so much, even though I know how impossible it is, because Nintendo just hates Good Paper Mario™, for some reason.

The state of the Mario RPG is a sad one nowadays.
Ik. It sucks that series such as Paper Mario have had their core rpg elements and battle mechanics stripped away in favor of stickers and paint. I don't know the condition of the Mario and Luigi series, but It has probably gone down hill since BIS
 
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Ovaltine

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You know what would absolutely kill me, by the by?

You know Rawest Forest? Dumb question, of course you do. Well, do you know that Kirbopher, a.k.a Chris Niosi, is a professional voice actor now? In fact, he's been hired by Nintendo and Squeenix in the recent past... for Octopath Traveler. He voices Therion in that game. He also voices Geno in that sick Geno vs. Exor rap battle.

What if we got Geno, and Chris Niosi did his voice acting?

A huge stretch, but given the popularity of Rawest Forest, could you imagine that? NoA doing that for us would just be the ultimate fanservice.
 
D

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You know what would absolutely kill me, by the by?

You know Rawest Forest? Dumb question, of course you do. Well, do you know that Kirbopher, a.k.a Chris Niosi, is a professional voice actor now? In fact, he's been hired by Nintendo and Squeenix in the recent past... for Octopath Traveler. He voices Therion in that game. He also voices Geno in that sick Geno vs. Exor rap battle.

What if we got Geno, and Chris Niosi did his voice acting?

A huge stretch, but given the popularity of Rawest Forest, could you imagine that? NoA doing that for us would just be the ultimate fanservice.
OVALTINE YOU ARE A GENIUS
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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You know what would absolutely kill me, by the by?

You know Rawest Forest? Dumb question, of course you do. Well, do you know that Kirbopher, a.k.a Chris Niosi, is a professional voice actor now? In fact, he's been hired by Nintendo and Squeenix in the recent past... for Octopath Traveler. He voices Therion in that game. He also voices Geno in that sick Geno vs. Exor rap battle.

What if we got Geno, and Chris Niosi did his voice acting?

A huge stretch, but given the popularity of Rawest Forest, could you imagine that? NoA doing that for us would just be the ultimate fanservice.
Geno WHIRL!
 
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Ze Diglett

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I would love this so much, even though I know how impossible it is, because Nintendo just hates Good Paper Mario™, for some reason.

The state of the Mario RPG is a sad one nowadays.
True that. At this point, seeing a good Mario RPG that isn't a remake (unless that remake happened to be of SMRPG, of course) would make me jump out of my seat with excitement. All I need is a Paper Mario game with proper RPG elements, an actual plot, and some new characters other than the stock inanimate object with eyes as your only "partner" who doesn't actually do anything to help and I'm sold. I'm not holding my breath, though, considering how dead-set Ninty seems to be on killing Paper Mario these days. :(
 
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D

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Of course Paper Mario Ttyd was a lot better than Paper Mario CS, but I still loved Color Splash
 

Tetrin

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Ik. It sucks that series such as Paper Mario have had their core rpg elements and battle mechanics stripped away in favor of stickers and paint. I don't know the condition of the Mario and Luigi series, but It has probably gone down hill since BIS
It's definitely not bad for the Mario RPG line right now (although I am kinda pressed they didn't remake Partner's in Time), we're just not getting any new games. They're ALL remakes.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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True that. At this point, seeing a good Mario RPG that isn't a remake (unless that remake happened to be a remake of SMRPG, of course) would make me jump out of my seat with excitement. All I need is a Paper Mario game with proper RPG elements, an actual plot, and some new characters other than the stock inanimate object with eyes as your only "partner" who doesn't actually do anything to help. I'm not holding my breath, though, considering how dead-set Ninty seems to be on killing Paper Mario these days. :(
As eh as CS is, it does have some proper ones. You do level up some kind of stat via experience and find items and such as normal. Consumable items is a thing. It's honestly still an rpg. It's just a pretty weak one, just like SS(which has the least amount of RPG elements among the series).

I get what you mean, though. SPM and the first two games have a good battle system. Honestly, what should be done is bringing back the regular rpg stats, but they can still somewhat keep the card system. I think it can be interesting, as part of it. Stuff like gaining more HP/Defense/Attack power is fine per level up. That said, I think the Badges should return. Also, using the Jump and Hammer should be free compared to the other card attacks. Also, the Things are actually really neat and an interesting replacement for the Star Spirits. They play interesting roles as a way to get rid of roadblocks, and multiple can be bought. They're all really cool on their own. Like the Piggy Bank.
 

Ze Diglett

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As eh as CS is, it does have some proper ones. You do level up some kind of stat via experience and find items and such as normal. Consumable items is a thing. It's honestly still an rpg. It's just a pretty weak one, just like SS(which has the least amount of RPG elements among the series).

I get what you mean, though. SPM and the first two games have a good battle system. Honestly, what should be done is bringing back the regular rpg stats, but they can still somewhat keep the card system. I think it can be interesting, as part of it. Stuff like gaining more HP/Defense/Attack power is fine per level up. That said, I think the Badges should return. Also, using the Jump and Hammer should be free compared to the other card attacks. Also, the Things are actually really neat and an interesting replacement for the Star Spirits. They play interesting roles as a way to get rid of roadblocks, and multiple can be bought. They're all really cool on their own. Like the Piggy Bank.
I think you hit the nail right on the head there. I'm not opposed to Sticker Star and Color Splash's battle system on principle, but there should definitely be a stock "Jump" and "Hammer" option available to you at all times. Having your only method of attack be based on a finite supply of resources is just dumb and only makes you want to avoid every fight (especially coupled with the lack of experience points), which is the exact opposite of what you should want out of an RPG. Thing cards are fine, I guess, although I find the Special Moves from the first two games more interesting, but I think we can all agree they desperately need to make the boss fights a bit less stupid than "whoops, you didn't go into this battle with this one specific item? Well, guess you're ****ed, then, bucko!" Nu-PM's approach to bosses is one of my biggest turn-offs to those games just because it's so one-dimensional (no pun intended) to win or lose instantly based on whether you do or do not have the magical bull**** item(s) you need, even more so when that philosophy is applied to damn near every boss in the game.

And from a story perspective, please, just add more original characters. I really don't know what Miyamoto's beef is with characters that aren't part of the core Mario cast (which basically includes the same, like, five characters give or take Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings), but Paper Mario especially is suffering for it. The characters were a huge part of what made the first three Paper Marios so charming - I look back on Super Paper Mario's cast of villains with particular fondness - and even with the admittedly clever writing CS has, the vast majority of that charm was lost, I feel, when they decided to make Bowser a silent villain and turn Paper Mario into Toad Roundup Simulator. (Or maybe I'm getting it mixed up with another RPG Paper Mario was in...)

...wew, that ended up being longer than I expected. Sorry, I just really love my Mario RPGs, and watching what Nintendo's done to Paper Mario the past decade is just... it hurts, man.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I think you hit the nail right on the head there. I'm not opposed to Sticker Star and Color Splash's battle system on principle, there should just be a stock "Jump" and "Hammer" option available to you at all times. Having your only method of attack be based on a finite supply of resources is just dumb and only makes you want to avoid every fight (especially coupled with the lack of experience points), which is the exact opposite of what you should want out of an RPG. Thing cards are fine, I guess, although I find the Special Moves from the first two games more interesting, but I think we can all agree they desperately need to make the bosses a bit less stupid than "whoops, you didn't go into this fight with this one specific item? Well, guess you're ****ed, then, bucko!" Nu-PM's approach to boss fights is one of my biggest turn-offs to those games just because it's so one-dimensional to win or lose instantly based on whether you do or do not have the magical bull**** item(s) you need, even more so when that philosophy is applied to damn near every boss in the game.

And from a story perspective, please, just add more original characters. I really don't know what Miyamoto's beef is with characters that aren't part of the core Mario cast, but Paper Mario especially is suffering for it. The characters were a huge part of what made the first three Paper Marios so charming - I look back on Super Paper Mario's cast of villains with particular fondness - and even with the admittedly clever writing CS has, the vast majority of that charm was lost, I feel, when they decided to turn Paper Mario into Toad Roundup Simulator. (Or maybe I'm getting it mixed up with another RPG Paper Mario was in...)

...wew, that ended up being longer than I expected. Sorry, I just really love my Mario RPGs, and watching what Nintendo's done to Paper Mario the past decade is just... it hurts, man.
Actually, Miyamoto ordered them outright to stop using more original characters. They don't have that options. Not that the varied races are the key thing. It's the writing that makes 'em worthwhile. I think the diversity and feeling like the so-called enemies are just people doing their job does work better.

Miyamoto didn't give them many orders otherwise. Like the whole "I think it plays too much like TTYD" was more a suggestion than an actual order itself. They came up with the Stickers too, to make it more interesting. I don't think it worked super well.
 

Sovereign Trinity

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I hate how true this comic is. It kind of pains me that Ridley was wanted for so long and that most people stopped caring once he got in because he's not top tier. I really hope this doesn't happen to Geno but this honestly does happen with a lot of popular picks. I can already tell that K. Rool is going to go the route of Dedede in Brawl and get notably worse as time goes on, even if he isn't nerfed. Megaman, Robin, Pac-Man, and Little Mac are all now super niche despite once being big characters in Smash speculation. Mewtwo, Bayonetta, Corrin, and Rosalina are not as good as their Smash 4 counterparts so their support has plummeted. Bowser Jr was resented almost right out of the gate despite a goofy amount of effort going into him and the Koopalings. I suppose that this is one of the ugly aspects of the Smash fandom is that most character fanbases hollow themselves out if the character isn't super good or at least meme-y like Dedede. Of course there's exceptions like Roy (who's ironically now stupid good after nearly 20 years) but the truth is that not a lot of Smash fans are character loyalists and jump ship if the character isn't perceived as being good.
Thanks for showing us that comic. I'm actually surprised people stopped caring for Ridley and King K. Rool now, because K. Rool is one of the most overpowered characters with a unique moveset in the game, and Ridley's moveset is just amazing. Even though I wanted K. Rool in Smash more than Ridley, I actually use Ridley a lot more than King K. Rool. Even if a character is low-tier or considered bad, you have to play and use them right in order to play like a pro with them. Many did not like Mega Man's moveset in Smash 4, even if he was mid-tier, but some were able to master his moveset and are able to play as him smoothly against others. You must know how to use a character in order to give them your sense of justice.

If Geno does make it into Smash, I don't care how well, bad, or what place he'd be on the tier list, I will still love him and he will 100% be my primary main. People said the same thing about Simon Belmont, they didn't care how good or bad he'd work if he got in Smash, all that mattered to them was that they'll play as him no matter what the cost was. With how much Sakurai even likes and favors the hell out of Geno, I'd be surprised if he developed Geno's character to be low-tier; I'd expect Sakurai to make Geno be A-tier or higher. But that's not the point, it doesn't matter what tier level you a character is. All that matters is how unique Geno would be in the game, and what unique/interesting things he brings to the table.

If Geno did get in as a playable character, I think what would matter most is that our favorite puppet is finally being acknowledged again after 22 years. :)
 

Ze Diglett

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Actually, Miyamoto ordered them outright to stop using more original characters. They don't have that options. Not that the varied races are the key thing. It's the writing that makes 'em worthwhile. I think the diversity and feeling like the so-called enemies are just people doing their job does work better.

Miyamoto didn't give them many orders otherwise. Like the whole "I think it plays too much like TTYD" was more a suggestion than an actual order itself. They came up with the Stickers too, to make it more interesting. I don't think it worked super well.
I'm aware. I respect the man, but if he keeps that shtick up, he's gonna become the George Lucas of games of this rate... I really hope we don't have to see that happen.
 

Loliko YnT

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I hate how true this comic is. It kind of pains me that Ridley was wanted for so long and that most people stopped caring once he got in because he's not top tier. I really hope this doesn't happen to Geno but this honestly does happen with a lot of popular picks. I can already tell that K. Rool is going to go the route of Dedede in Brawl and get notably worse as time goes on, even if he isn't nerfed. Megaman, Robin, Pac-Man, and Little Mac are all now super niche despite once being big characters in Smash speculation. Mewtwo, Bayonetta, Corrin, and Rosalina are not as good as their Smash 4 counterparts so their support has plummeted. Bowser Jr was resented almost right out of the gate despite a goofy amount of effort going into him and the Koopalings. I suppose that this is one of the ugly aspects of the Smash fandom is that most character fanbases hollow themselves out if the character isn't super good or at least meme-y like Dedede. Of course there's exceptions like Roy (who's ironically now stupid good after nearly 20 years) but the truth is that not a lot of Smash fans are character loyalists and jump ship if the character isn't perceived as being good.
I wrote a moveset for Geno a few hundred pages back, but it got mostly ignored and it wasn't that good or well explained, and I wasn't really super proud of it so... I'm re-doing it.

Geno Moveset

General Archetype:
Geno in SMRPG is a bit of a glass cannon. He's got the highest attack, speed, and magic attack of all the party members, but his low HP and lack of specialized equipment makes it hard for him to take hits. His physical attacks are very strong, and he has several special moves ranging from single-target massive damage moves, to AOE attacks that hit all enemies. To reflect this, Geno will be very fast on the ground and in the air, as well as most of his moves being quick to start up and finish, but to compensate, if you manage to overwhelm him, he's very easy to kill and does poorly in a disadvantage state.

Main Gimmicks:
-For most of his normal moves, he uses his arms to rocket punch. The moves themselves are very fast, but using them will leave him with one less arm than usual, and he can't spam any of these moves as a result. Each move that uses one of his hands can be done twice in a row, once for each hand. Certain moves will use both hands at the same time.
--When he uses one of these moves, he'll punch in a direction and send his hand out as a projectile that travels a short distance forward, and then stop and rocket back towards Geno with somewhat slow homing. Unlike Link's boomerang or K Rool's crown though, it will ALWAYS return to him eventually. They have a hitbox on the way out, but not when they're returning to him. They can be reflected when they have a hitbox, and doing so will make them hurt Geno right before he puts them back on.
--If Geno uses a rocket punch move without any hands, he'll do the animation as normal, but with a shocked expression. The move will still have a hitbox, but an incredibly tiny and weak one.
-Similar to Bayonetta, some of his moves can be extended by holding the button down to fire a star. The projectile itself functions more like one of Mega Man's pellets/lemons, and has a fairly small range before it disappears.

Stats:
-Weight: 76 (one unit less than Mewtwo, one more than G&W)
-Max Run Speed: 2.05 (faster than Yoshi and Pikachu, slower than Meta Knight and Palutena)
--His run animation will be floating across the ground with a star trail, similar to Palutena or Rosalina.
-Air Speed: ~1.3 (equal to Roy/Chrom)
-Air Acceleration: 0.1 total (equal to Ness/G&W/etc.)
-Fall Speed: 1.85 (equal to Greninja/Belmonts)
--The above three stats combined make him one of, if not the most terrifying masters of air movement. His speed and acceleration are both a bit lower than Jigglypuff, but with much more fall speed than her. However, the high fall speed makes him extreme combo food.

Normals:
Jab: A three hit combo, with an optional rapid jab. Hit one and two are a right and then left handed punch. For rapid jab, he shoots tiny bullets out of his right arm, and then finishes with a star shot. If not using the rapid jab, the finisher is just the star shot with the same animation.

F-tilt: A punch forward, followed by a flex that opens up his arm. This move can be extended to fire a star a small distance forward. If he doesn't have either of his hands, this move will only have one hit with shorter range, but can still fire a star.
D-tilt: Geno leg sweeps in front of him. Short ranged, but a fast combo starter. Holding the a button will make him fire a star that travels very low to the ground.
U-tilt: Geno lifts his arms up in a "praise the sun stars!" pose, which creates a multihit star above him. This move would functionally be similar to Ice climber's up tilt.

N-Air: Geno spins in a circle with a ring around him, in the exact same animation as Mario does in SMG and SMG2. The first time this is used after leaving the ground, Geno gains a small amount of height. Holding the button will let you fire a star in both directions, unless you land before firing.
F-Air: A rocket punch forward with his right hand. This move can only use his right hand, and without it, has a tiny, weak hitbox.
B-Air: Geno rocket punches behind him with his left hand. Similarly to F-Air, this move can only use his left hand, and without it, has a tiny, weak hitbox.
D-Air: Geno rocket punches downward with either hand. This move is pretty much the same as Mega Man's D-Air, except the hand obviously comes back. The weak hitbox without hands still sends downward.
U-Air: Geno kicks upward with a similar animation to Guile's Flash Kick. If you hold the A button, Geno will continue rotating and then fire a star directly upward with his hand, unless you land before firing.

Smash Attacks:
F-Smash w/ Right Hand: Geno holds his right arm with his left hand to charge, and then fires a rocket punch with his right hand straight forward with a range about the distance of a BF platform before it returns to him.
F-Smash w/o Right Hand: Geno props his left arm up on the empty elbow of his right hand to charge, and then fires a rocket punch with his left hand the same distance.
F-Smash w/ no hands: This move cannot be charged. Geno tries to do the pose of a right handed F-Smash, but only manages to fire a puff of smoke in his own face. This move has a tiny hitbox right on his elbow, with half the power of a normal uncharged F-Smash.

D-Smash w/ both hands: Geno crouches down and faces the camera with his arms outstretched as he charges, and on release he fires a rocket punch in both directions. Each hand travels about 75% the distance of F-Smash.
D-Smash w/ one hand: The animation is the same, but only one hand will actually fire of course. If the other hand returns while charging, both will fire as normal. If the other hand doesn't return, a tiny hitbox will cover the arm that would have fired, with 1/2 of the power.
D-Smash w/ no hands: This move cannot be charged. Geno crouches down, but instead of firing, he stops to look at his (lack of) hands, and then rolls his eyes.

U-Smash: Geno Blast! Geno charges this move by raising his arms, and then once released, he crouches down and pauses a moment before a giant pillar of rainbow light erupts in front of him. Similar to Palutena's up smash, but it's multi-hit and has a longer start-up.

Grab and Throws:
Geno has a pretty standard grab, where he reaches out with one hand to hold them in place. If he's missing one hand, he'll use the other to grab. If he's missing BOTH hands, he can't grab the opponent at all until one returns to him. Trying to grab without hands will just bring up shield.

Pummel: With his opponent in one hand, he shoots stars at them with the other.
U-Throw: Geno transforms into a cannon and fires his opponent directly upward, in a manner similar to Geno Flash.
F-Throw: Same as U-Throw, but sends them forward instead of up.
B-Throw: Same as F-Throw, but he rotates around the cannon's base after transforming to send the opponent backward.
D-Throw: Geno throws his opponent to the ground, jumps upward, and shoots a few stars down at them.

Special Moves:
Neutral B: Geno Beam! Geno lifts his arm, and starts charging a beam. Releasing the button will fire the move. This move has 4 different variations depending on how long it's charged.
-Stars will appear above Geno while he's charging. Releasing with 3 stars above him will require a 2 frame window.
-The first three levels fire a beam, each one being bigger (taller) and lasting longer than the last level. The maximum range for these three levels is approximately half the distance of FD. Charging for too long will instead make the move fail, and blow up in Geno's face, damaging him, but being a really good kill move if you get too close. (similar to Diddy's Neutral B)
-Level 1's hitbox lasts for 1 frame, level 2's lasts for 5 frames, and level 3's lasts for 20 frames, being a multihit move.

Side B: Geno Whirl! Geno fires his signature projectile directly in front of him. It's not a very strong move, but it deals a lot of shield damage. Also, if this move hits at the very edge of its range right before the projectile despawns, it will deal exactly 9.9% regardless of staling, and have enough knockback to KO at around 10% on most of the cast. The maximum range is about 95% the length of FD. Geno is stuck in endlag until the projectile despawns, making this move risky.

Down B: In a manner similar to Olimar's down B, Geno will call his fists back to him. Using this move makes both of his fists travel to him in a straight line at 5x their normal speed, as opposed to their usual curved slow-ish homing.

Up B: Geno Boost! Geno freezes in place, even if he's in midair, as he gets covered in red arrows, and then launches upward. This move can be angled to the left or right and travels a good distance. This move has no hitbox, but travels very fast. It's pretty easy to edgeguard with the long start-up time. Overall, a fantastic recovery, but it leaves him very vulnerable.

Final Smash: Star Rain! Mallow shows up to help out Geno, and together they call in a large star from above that crashes into the stage, bounces a few times, and then explodes like Geno Flash. The star itself is about the size of Rosalina's final smash before it starts getting bigger. While it's bouncing, you can use left and right to move the star around. The star will ignore most platforms.

Miscellaneous Stuff:
Up taunt: Geno raises his hands to the sky for a moment, then looks down solemnly after nothing happens. He shakes his head a few times to forget about it.
Side taunt: Geno does the animation for using an item in SMRPG, and the text "Freebie!" will appear above him.
Down taunt: Geno jumps in shock, and then falls flat on his face.

Battle entry: The Geno doll is laying on the battlefield lifelessly, before a star jumps into it and makes it grow and stand up.
Victory poses:
-Geno crosses his arms and nods to the camera. The camera rotates around him as he does this.
-Geno fires a Geno Beam to the side, and then looks over his shoulder at the camera.
-Geno laughs, and then a star pops out of Geno's head, as the doll falls lifelessly to the ground. The star (♥♪!?) floats above him in circles after the freeze-frame.

Alt outfits:
(The default skin has blue clothes with yellow highlights, orange hair, and light brown skin/wood)
-Red clothes with dark blue highlights, and brown hair, to resemble Mario.
-Baby blue clothes with white highlights, pink hair and shoes, and white skin/wood, to resemble Mallow.
-Green clothes with all other colors being the same, but slightly darker, to resemble Bowser.
-Pink outfit with darker pink highlights, and blonde hair, to resemble Peach, as well as reference to a bug in SMRPG that allows Peach to use Geno's spells.
-Purple Geno, based on his palette while poisoned.
-Gold Geno, based on the gold statues in Nimbus Land.
-Silver clothes and skin/wood with pale yellow highlights, and white hair, based on Smithy and the fake versions of bosses in Smithy's factory.

Long post is long.
The way I see it, Smash has two groups of fans.

Fans who watch Smash tournaments. They care about tier lists and combos; they like the game for the competition and challenge more than the characters, and even having fun. So of course they only care about high tier characters.

Then you have normal Smash fans. We like all the characters, usually the ones from our favorite games, or characters fun to play as. I know huge pokemon nerds who still main Lucario and Greninja, and dont care about tournaments.

Basically, if you want to see people actually enjoy the characters and the game, then don't expect to hear it from competitive players, and especially not forums with competitive fans.
alright , first of all;
That's an amazing moveset full of charm and personnality. I especially love Geno's animations when he can't do his smash attacks lol.

I know that most of us can't agree on wich up-b we should use , but I would use the HP rain cloud from Mallow.(Iv'e already did a post about it):

It will have a timed hit gimmick. If you don't time the hit , he will just bounce out of the cloud , without an hitbox. If you time the hit , he will jump higher and will be followed by a thunder , but he can't grab the ledge directly , as a trade-off. This is a powerful kill move that could be quite scary... But if you read it and punish it , he's not going to make it back.


To respond to Fatmanmonice post and the comic he shared... There is quite some truth in it , sadly.
I remember everyone hyped by Ridley during E3... But after that , people felt more shocked than hyped that he made it. (at least , that's what I saw with most people I talked too)
I really got the feeling that Ridley was more used an argument than anything else during this hype cycle:"Oh , if Ridley can be a playable character despise what Sakurai said , why not this character?" Of course , I saw some amazing art of him... But I had a hard time finding Ridley fans , guess I should join the Ridleycord !

Even competitve Smashtubers like Ninkendo or Alpharad love playing as him , and he already got montages from Little Z and Quak! I'm unsure about OHKO and PJiggles tho , and I don't think WeegeeTheGod made a "how to play Ridley" yet. But see? He's not forgotten , he just get different love. He's a Smash character now , some people that didn't cared about Metroid at all LOVE THE DUDE.

And if we're talking competitive , I can't stand this community sometimes. "We should ban Kalos , one player start more to the left than the other one , it ain't fair" and then they try to legalize Castle Siege wich has a slope and even more unfair spawing points , but let's not get off topic.
They called K. Rool and the Belmonts braindead at release , because "lol super armor" and "lol B-button". But on the other hand , you have smashtubers like Introspcketive and Girthquake who play a lot of King K Rool. Every Smash character has a metagame that they developp , regardless if they're good or not. (But not gonna lie , Melee and Brawl had legit near impossible characters to win with. It just wasn't fun to play them. Like ,there was only one noticible Wolf main , Seagull Joe.)

Myself , I played :4olimar::4dedede:and:4pacman: during Sm4sh. I'm a huge Pikmin fan and love Oli's playstyle , I loved Dedede's personnality , moveset and beeing the underdog feel nice tbh. And Pac-man playstyle is just wack , most people don't know how to play against him and all of his 9000 IQ trap (Yeah you can shield all of his stuff and his grab is awful , but let's not talk about that :secretkpop:)and he was very fun.
Olimar was high tier , Pac low tier , and Dedede bottom tier. Despise everyone saying I should focus on my Olimar , I kept the other guys and won some online tourney sets with them. (I even janked one game out of Jeda's Cloud with Dedede , the best Lucario player in France lol.)

But I didn't dropped them in Ultimate , getting used to the new Pac was hard (Fruit recycling is fun) and oh my oh my Olimar is no joke this time around but I still play them because I genuinely like playing as them competitively.
I just added :ulticeclimbers:and:ultkrool: to the list for now. Popo and Nana desync are so fun (Nana F-smashing the opponent before Popo has time to throw them is just hilarious) and K Rool's playstyle and moveset is what I like about a Smash character. Unique and goofy ! He's simple to pick up and play , but he's still very rewarding.

And I would play the hell out of Geno if he become playable , trust me. Iv'e played Sm4sh Dedede for 2 years , the third/fourth worst character in the game.
Maybe I'm a weird guy , but I'm convinced that even top players can play the characters they want.

I mean , Ally , a top 10 player and Mario main in Sm4sh is playing :ultwiifittrainer: and :ultlucario: out of all characters!

Sorry for the long post.

Edit: here's a tourney set with Ridley:
Tbh , the tourney scene this time around is very varied (if we except the Palutena , Greninja and Pichu players , but it's not as bad as Bayonetta and Cloud in Sm4sh)
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Reminder that the last original Mario & Luigi game was a crossover with Paper Mario.

At least the remakes make people aware of Fawful...

I would love this so much, even though I know how impossible it is, because Nintendo just hates Good Paper Mario™, for some reason.

The state of the Mario RPG is a sad one nowadays.
I promise, it will eventually be a happy one :)
They just need to kick out Tanabe, he's the root of the problem. He Toadwashes new games.

His treatment of the Paper Mario series is utter bull****, but Mario Odyssey is nothing short of a masterpiece. He's got several **** ups/authoritarian bad calls to go before he's GL-tier. If he started behaving like JK Rowling does now I'd say he was more GL-esque.
Actually, isn't the Super Mario Galaxy guy involved with Odyssey?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshiaki_Koizumi

In any case, Miyamoto had more direct involvement with Star Fox Zero, which is why it only had one control scheme.

You know what would absolutely kill me, by the by?

You know Rawest Forest? Dumb question, of course you do. Well, do you know that Kirbopher, a.k.a Chris Niosi, is a professional voice actor now? In fact, he's been hired by Nintendo and Squeenix in the recent past... for Octopath Traveler. He voices Therion in that game. He also voices Geno in that sick Geno vs. Exor rap battle.

What if we got Geno, and Chris Niosi did his voice acting?

A huge stretch, but given the popularity of Rawest Forest, could you imagine that? NoA doing that for us would just be the ultimate fanservice.
That'd be neat. Xander is a Smash fan that eventually got to do Master Hand, so...
 
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JoyStar

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In regards to that supposed 5Chan leak, the main reason I find it dubious is that three of the characters are expected (even Doom marine, since a fair bit of people are openly wanting to see him), which goes against the intent of the Fighter Pass in the first place. In order for it to be proven fake, only one of these announced characters must not be on it.

And didn't Polar or someone else mention that no one knows what the DLC is? That we suddenly get a leak that dates from September, and somehow managed to dodge the Nintendo ninjas, seems a little too convenient.

TLDR; I just don't know about this...

Not to mention, weren't the DLC characters just decided shortly before the last Direct? In all likelihood even Sakurai and Nintendo hadn't decided the DLC before September. Probably mid-October at the earliest.
 

Nicnac

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You know what would absolutely kill me, by the by?

You know Rawest Forest? Dumb question, of course you do. Well, do you know that Kirbopher, a.k.a Chris Niosi, is a professional voice actor now? In fact, he's been hired by Nintendo and Squeenix in the recent past... for Octopath Traveler. He voices Therion in that game. He also voices Geno in that sick Geno vs. Exor rap battle.

What if we got Geno, and Chris Niosi did his voice acting?

A huge stretch, but given the popularity of Rawest Forest, could you imagine that? NoA doing that for us would just be the ultimate fanservice.
He did Brawl Taunts as well, right? Those were my Smash childhood lol
 

Fatmanonice

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Apparently Mii costumes are banned from Apex so there's now the cruel irony that Mii Fighters are now legal as long as they're the boring default ones. This will probably be the main trend for future tournaments so it's basically outright playable or bust for Geno in the competitive scene even if the Mii costume comes back.

In other news, according to Tansut, Erdrick has barely been worked on despite nearly half a year passing so it does make me wonder what's going on there. The upshot is that it adds even more evidence that Erdrick is pretty much separate from the other DLC characters and was likely decided much earlier. It honestly makes me wonder if it's simply being stalled or was outright cancelled which is why the needle has barely budged. Kind of makes me wonder if we've been looking at a frozen corpse this whole time and something went screwy with the liscensing.
 

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon

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The snowflake thing was a joke. And yeah I more was expressing the second point which is people not having counter strategies for lesser played characters.



Tbh at this point I feel like something has to be happening with Geno in some form sooner rather than later. If they were able to note the popularity of Ridley and K. Rool then there’s no way they wouldn’t take note of the support for Geno. And I feel that notion is supported by things like the NoA tweet and the HQ trivia question recently. I find it really hard to believe that the culmination of all of that acknowledgement is a .png with nice stats.
Well, if the mii costume comes back, then there you go.
 

Ovaltine

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Apparently Mii costumes are banned from Apex so there's now the cruel irony that Mii Fighters are now legal as long as they're the boring default ones. This will probably be the main trend for future tournaments so it's basically outright playable or bust for Geno in the competitive scene even if the Mii costume comes back.
Why would they even... ban the Mii costumes? How ridiculous is that? An aesthetic change is all of a sudden some illegal, banworthy tripe? That's pretty stupid. I don't even play Smash competitively, but geez.
 

Loliko YnT

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Why would they even... ban the Mii costumes? How ridiculous is that? An aesthetic change is all of a sudden some illegal, banworthy tripe? That's pretty stupid. I don't even play Smash competitively, but geez.
you need to unlock most of them , and pay for the mii costumes DLC , that , in the end , are purely cosmetic. For them , it's not a necessity.

Frii the Miis were a big topic back in Sm4sh and now the miis mains are trying their best to make miis as legal as possible (now they don't have their different size , they are trying to keep the customs special moves).

At least , online tourneys will let people use their Isaac mii or Chibi-Robo mii.

But tbh , the miis are a good example on how close-minded the Smash community can get a times. I don't say everyone is like that , but the game isn't even one month old and , if I recall , Smash at Xanadu limited miis to theirs 1111 special move set.
 

Ovaltine

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Thinking about the Geno rumor at NoA and how that spread...

Apparently, NoA is aware of the Mii costume DLC, and there hasn't yet been an update on whether that Geno rumor still stands or not. What if we are getting Mii costumes back from third parties, but Geno's isn't one of them? It would perpetuate such a rumor, I think, but it could also be bad news if Geno isn't meant to be playable either. Both the Mii costume being absent and Geno unplayable? Brrr...
 

JoyStar

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Why would they even... ban the Mii costumes? How ridiculous is that? An aesthetic change is all of a sudden some illegal, banworthy tripe? That's pretty stupid. I don't even play Smash competitively, but geez.

What?! How are us Skull Kid fans supposed to show our support now? Banning Mii Costumes is so stupid.

Is this them being banned from a specific tournament or online in general?
 

Ovaltine

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What?! How are us Skull Kid fans supposed to show our support now? Banning Mii Costumes is so stupid.

Is this them being banned from a specific tournament or online in general?
It's not from online, thankfully, but from just Apex. That being said, I could see this becoming a trend in tourneys in general, so I won't be surprised if other ones make that silly decision, too.
 
D

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Mii costumes banned from tournaments? Why would you do that? Just a change in clothes is illegal? How? Who allowed that?

I don't play the Miis that much but why would you do that? Seriously.
 

FalconFire93

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For me, I get excited because of possible moveset potential. I didn't want Incineroar, but his moveset is awesome, so it made me excited. Slime and Steve would inherently have really unique awesome movesets. I got excited for Joker despite never playing Persona or SMT. I just like smash bros :p
I agree with you on Incineroar there, he instantly became one of my mains and I played as him against all characters on the Boxing Ring stage and each time he did his Final Smash, it was more hype than WWE for me lol :laugh:
 

SSGuy

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Why would they even... ban the Mii costumes? How ridiculous is that? An aesthetic change is all of a sudden some illegal, banworthy tripe? That's pretty stupid. I don't even play Smash competitively, but geez.
As a competitive player, this makes sense. While I cannot speak on behalf of everyone, some players are paranoid with competitive miis to begin with because they might not anticipate a specific custom move they have on them. On top of that, when you have costumes like Skull Kid or Isaac, they have a lot of aesthetics that players will often become confused on where a characters' hitbox is. The default miis are great because they don't have this issue.

This also cuts out any potential issues with controversial miis. If anything goes, then it wouldn't be long before people are just entering as Mii Fighters that are just references to memes which would not benefit the scene at all.
 
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D

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Not to mention, weren't the DLC characters just decided shortly before the last Direct? In all likelihood even Sakurai and Nintendo hadn't decided the DLC before September. Probably mid-October at the earliest.
No, at the latest, I think they were decided by the end of 2017. Probably even at the end of 2016, since any characters past 2017, including Spring Man and Rex, are not going to be DLC fighters (SM is an assist and Sakurai said Rex won't be a fighter). IIrc, Sakurai said that getting the rights to a third party character can take about a year, meaning that, since they were able to reveal Joker in December 2018, he had to have been decided, at the latest, December 2017
 
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Ovaltine

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Hey, friends! So, now that I've had my morning pick-me-up and have gotten some work done, I can peep back here and talk about a little something I've been cooking up.

I am definitely planning on using my talent (that's overstating it, says my more modest side) to generate plenty more fan content for Geno. Along with that, I have also been writing for many years, and I could see something blossoming from that if I put extensive time and effort into it. It would be a long time, but I'm wondering if I can make something really huge for the fanbase. If Nintendo and Square won't keep Geno alive, the fanbase can, and I'm not about to sit back without putting my best foot forward.

It's very much a personal project, and if I make the commitment to do it, it'll be a long ways ahead. Obviously, I have a life and things to do, but I would love to do something massive for our boy in the meantime. In the meanwhile, I can't go into too much detail on what this little project is, but I hope I can make at least a decent contribution.

If you have any ability to draw, to write, to do anything creative, no matter how talented you are or not, do it! Every little contribution to our fanbase is golden! I'm taking on a positive outlook that we have kept Geno alive for so many years, and even if official content would be great and all, we don't need Nintendo and especially not hecking greedy Square to spread the joy of Geno worldwide. We can do this. I don't know about you, but sitting back and relying on the big N and the money-hungry S to keep him alive and kicking isn't going to do jack.

Obviously, don't do anything that would potentially get you in legal trouble or C&D'd (even though it'd be hilarious for Square to try that when they don't even use him ever), but generate. Create. I challenge every one of you to play your part! We can make beautiful things happen and make a positive impact out of this hopeless situation!
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Apparently Mii costumes are banned from Apex so there's now the cruel irony that Mii Fighters are now legal as long as they're the boring default ones. This will probably be the main trend for future tournaments so it's basically outright playable or bust for Geno in the competitive scene even if the Mii costume comes back.

In other news, according to Tansut, Erdrick has barely been worked on despite nearly half a year passing so it does make me wonder what's going on there. The upshot is that it adds even more evidence that Erdrick is pretty much separate from the other DLC characters and was likely decided much earlier. It honestly makes me wonder if it's simply being stalled or was outright cancelled which is why the needle has barely budged. Kind of makes me wonder if we've been looking at a frozen corpse this whole time and something went screwy with the liscensing.
Could we be looking at a forbidden...one?

If this is true and and Erd got cancelled at the last minute, Tansut is going to look like a fake in the coming months, even though he was right on the money last time with Cloud.

On the other hand, separate DLC would be a fantastic alternative.

I agree with you on Incineroar there, he instantly became one of my mains and I played as him against all characters on the Boxing Ring stage and each time he did his Final Smash, it was more hype than WWE for me lol :laugh:
That's accurate.

1477681347426.png


As a competitive player, this makes sense. While I cannot speak on behalf of everyone, some players are paranoid with competitive miis to begin with because they might not anticipate a specific custom move they have on them. On top of that, when you have costumes like Skull Kid or Isaac, they have a lot of aesthetics that players will often become confused on where a characters' hitbox is. The default miis are great because they don't have this issue.

This also cuts out any potential issues with controversial miis. If anything goes, then it wouldn't be long before people are just entering as Mii Fighters that are just references to memes which would not benefit the scene at all.
Also, any jokester that's wanting to run around with a Mii dressed as Hitler.
 
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