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That's supported by the fact that NoA really, really hyped up the Geno Mii costume reveal on Twitter, going as far as to say, "LOOK WHO'S BACK!" — Verbatim. I know we don't feel like this is a proper revival for Geno, but Nintendo may very well have believed it to be.
That being said, NoA itself is waking up to the fact that ATs and Mii costumes aren't well-received like they thought, thanks to the Isaac incident. This behavior and train of thought over Geno has evidence of this before that, though. It may still be hyping up the re-release of the Mii costume. I hope to goodness that it isn't and that it's hyping something more, but I'm just pessimistic about it...
That being said, NoA itself is waking up to the fact that ATs and Mii costumes aren't well-received like they thought, thanks to the Isaac incident. This behavior and train of thought over Geno has evidence of this before that, though
It could mean nothing still, or just them bringing it up for nostalgia; wouldn't be a first time.
Reminded me, were they doing this before or after the Isaac reaction? And even still, that was only the reaction they got from the Isaac fanbase. Not neccessarily any other fanbase as far as they knew.
It could mean nothing still, or just them bringing it up for nostalgia; wouldn't be a first time.
Reminded me, were they doing this before or after the Isaac reaction? And even still, that was only the reaction they got from the Isaac fanbase. Not neccessarily any other fanbase as far as they knew.
Yeah, it could just as easily mean a bunch of nothing. Nintendo does as Nintendo does.
They tweeted the SMRPG tweet before the Isaac reaction, whereas the HQ question came after. I don't see how the HQ thing could take too long to iron out, though, so whether they went ahead with this afterwards or not is something I can't really determine. Either way, I think that's looking too far into it, and it could all just be NoA knowing that we love Geno and trying to give us tiny nods, nothing more.
As for the Isaac reaction, I could see it going either way. Either they isolate it as just an Isaac thing... or they don't. The horrible reaction to Waluigi as an assist probably doesn't help that much either. (That being said, those poor NoA workers and other people who apparently got death threats, sheesh...)
Maybe they're doing the opposite, and just won't make a fuss over them now.
Which is likely, given how disorganised the marketing department has been this time. At most, we could get a SMRPG spirit event...which is difficult to do, seeing as there's only the two. Dammit Square, why do you have to make everything so difficult?
At least the Isaac fans are not going to take things lying down and try to go full-on Kutthroats.
That's supported by the fact that NoA really, really hyped up the Geno Mii costume reveal on Twitter, going as far as to say, "LOOK WHO'S BACK!" — Verbatim. I know we don't feel like this is a proper revival for Geno, but Nintendo may very well have believed it to be.
That being said, NoA itself is waking up to the fact that ATs and Mii costumes aren't well-received like they thought, thanks to the Isaac incident. This behavior and train of thought over Geno has evidence of this before that, though. It may still be hyping up the re-release of the Mii costume. I hope to goodness that it isn't and that it's hyping something more, but I'm just pessimistic about it...
You have no idea how much I want that. Skull Kid's got a larger fanbase than I thought, and I can't blame them, especially given MM is my favorite Zelda game of all time. I'm pretty biased there, so I'd love that. Isaac, too? God, I feel awful for Isaac's fans. I'd LOVE if they got the satisfaction of a playable Isaac and a return to form for Golden Sun.
I don't see it happening, but I'm praying for y'all.
Eh, I'm pretty sure ATs won't see upgrading in the same game, that's one unspoken rule that's been maintained so far (especially if going through the hassle of spending diminished DLC resources on older assets isn't worth it). If there's a third wave maybe I could see it, but until then such effort is best saved in other areas for now.
In the meantime, the best thing to hope for is for the fans to say LOUD AND CLEAR that they want GS back. That speaks louder than any old ballot.
Honestly, if and only if we got a wave 2, I could see it being more focused on those fan favorites that didn't make it beyond AT, Mii costume, and even spirit status. I'd love this for a wave 2, just to make everyone happy at the end of the day (for the most part):
1) Isaac
2) Waluigi
3) Ashley
4) Shadow the Hedgehog
5) Geno, ending off with a bang.
I wish I could like a post multiple times because I'm telling y'all, I think this is what we've reeeeally gotta be fighting for. At least Geno has the plus of Mario being a living series on his side, too. (Poor Isaac, though...)
I figure that guy screams out SE design philosophy the most out of every character in the entire game. Plus, his fight uses Nobuo Uematsu originals (FFIV boss fight theme and the FF victory jingle).
Honestly, if and only if we got a wave 2, I could see it being more focused on those fan favorites that didn't make it beyond AT, Mii costume, and even spirit status. I'd love this for a wave 2, just to make everyone happy at the end of the day (for the most part):
1) Isaac
2) Waluigi
3) Ashley
4) Shadow the Hedgehog
5) Geno, ending off with a bang.
You have no idea how much I want that. Skull Kid's got a larger fanbase than I thought, and I can't blame them, especially given MM is my favorite Zelda game of all time. I'm pretty biased there, so I'd love that. Isaac, too? God, I feel awful for Isaac's fans. I'd LOVE if they got the satisfaction of a playable Isaac and a return to form for Golden Sun.
I don't see it happening, but I'm praying for y'all.
Speaking of Skull Kid and Majora's Mask, have you seen the short Terrible Fate? If that isn't a labor of love for Skull Kid and Majora's Mask, I don't know what is:
I figure that guy screams out SE design philosophy the most out of every character in the entire game. Plus, his fight uses Nobuo Uematsu originals (FFIV boss fight theme and the FF victory jingle).
Speaking of Skull Kid and Majora's Mask, have you seen the short Terrible Fate? If that isn't a labor of love for Skull Kid and Majora's Mask, I don't know what is:
God, what MM fan HASN'T? That thing is just sick. I love how much passion people have for MM, to the point that they make fantastic stuff like this. It does my heart good!
Also, if we're talking Mario characters that get promoted into DLC besides Geno, I'd sooner see Pauline get in before Waluigi. Sorry Waluigi fans, but she's gaining momentum, y'know.
Well either her or Birdo, if they use Yoshi as a base for the latter to make development easier.
God, what MM fan HASN'T? That thing is just sick. I love how much passion people have for MM, to the point that they make fantastic stuff like this. It does my heart good!
Oh, I actually just joined the forums very recently, and I've really only kept my reach to Geno for now. I should probably branch out, but Geno alone already has me awfully stressed for this DLC cycle. When I put my support in, I tend to put my all into it.
Funny how you mention that when I have a very certain someone in Strikers-style in the pipeline as we speak.
Get excited for potentially tonight or the next few days, I guess? Haha...
Oh, I actually just joined the forums very recently, and I've really only kept my reach to Geno for now. I should probably branch out, but Geno alone already has me awfully stressed for this DLC cycle. When I put my support in, I tend to put my all into it.
I'm aware. I respect the man, but if he keeps that shtick up, he's gonna become the George Lucas of games of this rate... I really hope we don't have to see that happen.
His treatment of the Paper Mario series is utter bull****, but Mario Odyssey is nothing short of a masterpiece. He's got several **** ups/authoritarian bad calls to go before he's GL-tier. If he started behaving like JK Rowling does now I'd say he was more GL-esque.
I hope Miyamoto stays away from the story development of the next Paper Mario game. Him interfering with Sticker Star's story development was a big mistake that really disappointed millions. Miyamoto acts like Square sometimes; he doesn't like it when people expand the Mario lore, I don't know why but he just does. When Rare expanded the DK lore, he got really pissed off about it and hated the DK Country series. I'd love to see the X-Nauts return because Lord Crump and a few of them are still alive.
Actually, Miyamoto ordered them outright to stop using more original characters. They don't have that options. Not that the varied races are the key thing. It's the writing that makes 'em worthwhile. I think the diversity and feeling like the so-called enemies are just people doing their job does work better.
Miyamoto didn't give them many orders otherwise. Like the whole "I think it plays too much like TTYD" was more a suggestion than an actual order itself. They came up with the Stickers too, to make it more interesting. I don't think it worked super well.
Legendary Spirit Tamer, I get what you're saying. I respect what Miyamoto's done for all of the Mario series, but he really screwed up big time with the Paper Mario series. Sticker Star was going to originally be Paper Mario 3D, and it was looking absolutely fantastic; until we saw more gameplay of Sticker Star, it looked awful. I got the game and thought it was an okay game, but as a Paper Mario game, it was awful. We got Color Splash and it looked like it absolutely played the same as Sticker Star, and many weren't happy about it. If you look at the sales, Sticker Star has 2 million, but we all learned from that game to not buy another Paper Mario game unless it was made like one of the first three games. Color Splash's total sales today is around 160,000... that's awful, and it's clear that the Paper Mario fanbase was really pissed off and didn't want to buy it.
Miyamoto also missed an opportunity with a better crossover involving Paper Jam. I got Paper Jam and loved it, I think it's much better than Dream Team, but he really missed a big opportunity with that game. The fact that he used Sticker Star characters was just... ugh, awful. Instead of having Bowser as the main villain again for the 34th time, they could've made a team up of Fawful and Dimentio. They only used casual Mario characters as bosses and characters, they didn't use anyone from Paper Mario 64, TTYD, or Super Paper Mario. They had plans for making Paper Luigi playable, but instead they cut him from being playable and made him as a complete joke, and they consider him as a "We don't talk about him" type of character; they could've made him Mr. L. If we had a huge crossover with Mario & Luigi + All the Paper Mario characters, we could've seen so many team ups like Popple and Mr. L; Fawful and Dimentio; Lord Crump and Midbus; etc. I know Fawful and Dimentio are dead, but I don't think Nintendo and AlphaDream care. We saw Fawful poof from existence in Superstar Saga, but he came back in Partners in Time as a bean merchant in the sewers. Fawful and Dimentio would've been the main villains and the both of them could've had a plan to try and betray each other. And when I mean a bunch of team ups, I mean that they're all affiliated with their own crew; no, the other team ups are NOT affiliated with Fawful and Dimentio, but most of the time it's Mario, Luigi, and Paper Luigi fighting them. Also, I would've made Bowser be part of the team, just like how he was in Super Mario RPG. Most of his moves would involve his attacks from Bowser's Inside Story but his special attacks will be his own moves this time (his attacks will be brand new), and it won't involve his minions like in Bowser's Inside Story because all his minions are brainwashed and work for Fawful and Dimentio now. I'm just so tired of Bowser being seen as a villain, because the dude clearly has a heart and does care about others, so I would've made him part of the team. And if we can't use Fawful and Dimentio, we could always use brand new villains.
I hope they make a good Paper Mario game like the first three again.
I actually have a rough time choosing between Paper Mario TTYD and Super Paper Mario as the best Paper Mario games. 2004 and 2007 were some of the greatest years in my life, and these two years were like my prime years of gaming, so having to choose between these two Mario games is like trying to choose between potatoes and tomatoes. Here's how I put it between these two:
Paper Mario TTYD - Best gameplay.
Super Paper Mario - Best story.
Both of these games have excellent soundtrack, so they're both on par with having the best soundtrack.
I actually have a rough time choosing between Paper Mario TTYD and Super Paper Mario as the best Paper Mario games. 2004 and 2007 were some of the greatest years in my life, and these two years were like my prime years of gaming, so having to choose between these two Mario games is like trying to choose between potatoes and tomatoes. Here's how I put it between these two:
Paper Mario TTYD - Best gameplay.
Super Paper Mario - Best story.
Both of these games have excellent soundtrack, so they're both on par with having the best soundtrack.
I hope Miyamoto stays away from the story development of the next Paper Mario game. Him interfering with Sticker Star's story development was a big mistake that really disappointed millions. Miyamoto acts like Square sometimes; he doesn't like it when people expand the Mario lore, I don't know why but he just does. When Rare expanded the DK lore, he got really pissed off about it and hated the DK Country series. I'd love to see the X-Nauts return because Lord Crump and a few of them are still alive.
Legendary Spirit Tamer, I get what you're saying. I respect what Miyamoto's done for all of the Mario series, but he really screwed up big time with the Paper Mario series. Sticker Star was going to originally be Paper Mario 3D, and it was looking absolutely fantastic; until we saw more gameplay of Sticker Star, it looked awful. I got the game and thought it was an okay game, but as a Paper Mario game, it was awful. We got Color Splash and it looked like it absolutely played the same as Sticker Star, and many weren't happy about it. If you look at the sales, Sticker Star has 2 million, but we all learned from that game to not buy another Paper Mario game unless it was made like one of the first three games. Color Splash's total sales today is around 160,000... that's awful, and it's clear that the Paper Mario fanbase was really pissed off and didn't want to buy it.
He didn't have a hand in Color Splash. The only thing he actually ordered them to do with Sticker Star was not used OC's anymore. Stick with the more common races. Anything else was a suggestion that it felt too similar. He did not demand in any way for them to change it all up. The development team 100% came up with the Stickers and remade it with little feedback beyond the OC factor. He did affect anything beyond it being all Toads really. People shouldn't really blame him for the Sticker stuff. It wasn't his idea. It wasn't his idea to make it very un-rpg like either. It's not remotely his fault.
Miyamoto also missed an opportunity with a better crossover involving Paper Jam. I got Paper Jam and loved it, I think it's much better than Dream Team, but he really missed a big opportunity with that game. The fact that he used Sticker Star characters was just... ugh, awful. Instead of having Bowser as the main villain again for the 34th time, they could've made a team up of Fawful and Dimentio. They only used casual Mario characters as bosses and characters, they didn't use anyone from Paper Mario 64, TTYD, or Super Paper Mario. They had plans for making Paper Luigi playable, but instead they cut him from being playable and made him as a complete joke, and they consider him as a "We don't talk about him" type of character; they could've made him Mr. L. If we had a huge crossover with Mario & Luigi + All the Paper Mario characters, we could've seen so many team ups like Popple and Mr. L; Fawful and Dimentio; Lord Crump and Midbus; etc. I know Fawful and Dimentio are dead, but I don't think Nintendo and AlphaDream care. We saw Fawful poof from existence in Superstar Saga, but he came back in Partners in Time as a bean merchant in the sewers. Fawful and Dimentio would've been the main villains and the both of them could've had a plan to try and betray each other. And when I mean a bunch of team ups, I mean that they're all affiliated with their own crew; no, the other team ups are NOT affiliated with Fawful and Dimentio, but most of the time it's Mario, Luigi, and Paper Luigi fighting them. Also, I would've made Bowser be part of the team, just like how he was in Super Mario RPG. Most of his moves would involve his attacks from Bowser's Inside Story but his special attacks will be his own moves this time (his attacks will be brand new), and it won't involve his minions like in Bowser's Inside Story because all his minions are brainwashed and work for Fawful and Dimentio now. I'm just so tired of Bowser being seen as a villain, because the dude clearly has a heart and does care about others, so I would've made him part of the team. And if we can't use Fawful and Dimentio, we could always use brand new villains.
I hope they make a good Paper Mario game like the first three again.
He was involved in these crossover games? I think people are trying too hard to blame him. He didn't really make those either. A different subset of Nintendo did. He was very uninvolved for the most part for Sticker Star. I'm not going to pretend he needs to stop overthinking on innovation, though. SFZ could've been actually good if it had more than one control theme. Let's not even count Command's awful controls either. The best he does at most is approve of the project plan, but he doesn't really involve himself much beyond, again, ordering them to use OC's. Otherwise, pure suggestions, which they aren't effectively forced to follow. What they do is take his advice into consideration and heavily respect his ideas, which is why they tend to follow them more than they have to.
I actually have a rough time choosing between Paper Mario TTYD and Super Paper Mario as the best Paper Mario games. 2004 and 2007 were some of the greatest years in my life, and these two years were like my prime years of gaming, so having to choose between these two Mario games is like trying to choose between potatoes and tomatoes. Here's how I put it between these two:
Paper Mario TTYD - Best gameplay.
Super Paper Mario - Best story.
Both of these games have excellent soundtrack, so they're both on par with having the best soundtrack.
He didn't have a hand in Color Splash. The only thing he actually ordered them to do with Sticker Star was not used OC's anymore. Stick with the more common races. Anything else was a suggestion that it felt too similar. He did not demand in any way for them to change it all up. The development team 100% came up with the Stickers and remade it with little feedback beyond the OC factor. He did affect anything beyond it being all Toads really. People shouldn't really blame him for the Sticker stuff. It wasn't his idea. It wasn't his idea to make it very un-rpg like either. It's not remotely his fault.
He was involved in these crossover games? I think people are trying too hard to blame him. He didn't really make those either. A different subset of Nintendo did. He was very uninvolved for the most part for Sticker Star. I'm not going to pretend he needs to stop overthinking on innovation, though. SFZ could've been actually good if it had more than one control theme. Let's not even count Command's awful controls either. The best he does at most is approve of the project plan, but he doesn't really involve himself much beyond, again, ordering them to use OC's. Otherwise, pure suggestions, which they aren't effectively forced to follow. What they do is take his advice into consideration and heavily respect his ideas, which is why they tend to follow them more than they have to.
Actually, Miyamoto did convince the idea to Intelligent Systems for abandoning the great things about Paper Mario. An interview source explained what he had said about the Paper Mario genre: "It's fine without a story, so do we really need one? As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world."
Also, they took a vote on Club Nintendo and all the members on there didn't find Super Paper Mario's story interesting at all, and I bet you none of them were even Paper Mario fans like we were. They probably all regret voting 'no' on that poll now, don't they?
That's still ridiculous of Miyamoto to say they cannot use original characters anymore. We saw some old beta footage of Paper Mario 3D, and from the looks of it the characters shown in beta screenshots had classic Mario characters. We had a chain chomp partner and a monty mole king as a boss; I liked the look of it because they went back to using the RPG system with partners, but then they scrapped it, which was a terrible mistake. Honestly, I would've been fine if it all involved Mario characters; as long as it has a good story with RPG mechanics, I would've been fine with it. It's why I'm one of the minority that enjoyed Paper Jam because they brought the old RPG feeling back with Paper Mario.
I mean, take a look and see for yourself. Their first version of Sticker Star looked amazing. It doesn't even looked like they used stickers for everything in version 1, it looked like it was more unique and had flavor to it. The attacks Mario used were probably permanent instead of limited too, because how in the hell are you supposed to fight without running out of stickers to use? For sure it had to've been permanent moves to keep. And that chain chomp partner looked like a badass, I was sad that they removed the chain chomp for good. I hope they bring that chain chomp partner back in a future Paper Mario game. My guess is they only used stickers for overworld stuff, not while battling.
You should play them all in order. Glad you started with the original that started it all first: Super Mario RPG. It's definitely the best RPG in any Mario RPG game, and I have to say it's a tiny bit better than Bowser's Inside Story. Sticker Star is a fun Mario game, but it's a terrible Paper Mario game. Here's my rating on all of them:
Super Mario RPG - Hands down, the best Mario RPG. (11/10)
Paper Mario 64 - A great game with a great story. (9/10)
Paper Mario TTYD - Best gameplay, amazing characters and mechanics. (10/10)
Super Paper Mario - Best story with one of the greatest villains of all time. Even if it used platform and action RPG, I still loved it. (10/10)
Sticker Star - Yikes! (6/10)
Color Splash - You're almost there to reverting back to normal. (7/10)
Superstar Saga - Best game to start off this amazing series, it's also my favorite. (10/10)
Partners in Time - Amazing story with great characters and villains. (9/10)
Bowser's Inside Story - Despite being my 2nd favorite in the M&L series, it's god-tier and we will never get an amazing game like this ever again. (11/10)
Dream Team - I wasn't a fan of the sprite change and they chose a horrible time to release it, but I thought it was an okay game. (8/10)
Paper Jam - I actually liked this better than Dream Team, even if it just used casual Mario characters. (8/10)
Actually, Miyamoto did convince the idea to Intelligent Systems for abandoning the great things about Paper Mario. An interview source explained what he had said about the Paper Mario genre: "It's fine without a story, so do we really need one? As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world."
Also, they took a vote on Club Nintendo and all the members on there didn't find Super Paper Mario's story interesting at all, and I bet you none of them were even Paper Mario fans like we were. They probably all regret voting 'no' on that poll now, don't they?
That's still ridiculous of Miyamoto to say they cannot use original characters anymore. We saw some old beta footage of Paper Mario 3D, and from the looks of it the characters shown in beta screenshots had classic Mario characters. We had a chain chomp partner and a monty mole king as a boss; I liked the look of it because they went back to using the RPG system with partners, but then they scrapped it, which was a terrible mistake. Honestly, I would've been fine if it all involved Mario characters; as long as it has a good story with RPG mechanics, I would've been fine with it. It's why I'm one of the minority that enjoyed Paper Jam because they brought the old RPG feeling back with Paper Mario.
I mean, take a look and see for yourself. Their first version of Sticker Star looked amazing. It doesn't even looked like they used stickers for everything in version 1, it looked like it was more unique and had flavor to it. The attacks Mario used were probably permanent instead of limited too, because how in the hell are you supposed to fight without running out of stickers to use? For sure it had to've been permanent moves to keep. And that chain chomp partner looked like a badass, I was sad that they removed the chain chomp for good. I hope they bring that chain chomp partner back in a future Paper Mario game. My guess is they only used stickers for overworld stuff, not while battling.
You should play them all in order. Glad you started with the original that started it all first: Super Mario RPG. It's definitely the best RPG in any Mario RPG game, and I have to say it's a tiny bit better than Bowser's Inside Story. Sticker Star is a fun Mario game, but it's a terrible Paper Mario game. Here's my rating on all of them:
Super Mario RPG - Hands down, the best Mario RPG. (11/10)
Paper Mario 64 - A great game with a great story. (9/10)
Paper Mario TTYD - Best gameplay, amazing characters and mechanics. (10/10)
Super Paper Mario - Best story with one of the greatest villains of all time. Even if it used platform and action RPG, I still loved it. (10/10)
Sticker Star - Yikes! (6/10)
Color Splash - You're almost there to reverting back to normal. (7/10)
Superstar Saga - Best game to start off this amazing series, it's also my favorite. (10/10)
Partners in Time - Amazing story with great characters and villains. (9/10)
Bowser's Inside Story - Despite being my 2nd favorite in the M&L series, it's god-tier and we will never get an amazing game like this ever again. (11/10)
Dream Team - I wasn't a fan of the sprite change and they chose a horrible time to release it, but I thought it was an okay game. (8/10)
Paper Jam - I actually liked this better than Dream Team, even if it just used casual Mario characters. (8/10)
I also need to play M&L BIS. However, I'm really sad they skipped remaking PiT, which I absolutely loved, and didn't even make the BIS remake for the Switch, but the 3DS instead.
Miyamoto also had some say in regards to Super Mario Galaxy 2's story and wanted it to be "simpler" than SMG1, when all that game had was backstory for Rosalina and that loopy ending.
It's almost like to him, Mario plot complexity never evolved past Super Mario Bros. 1. It's fine for something to appeal to everyone and try not to confuse people with continuity or whatever, but not all kids can be taken for granted since some do appreciate involved stories.
Miyamoto also had some say in regards to Super Mario Galaxy 2's story and wanted it to be "simpler" than SMG1, when all that game had was backstory for Rosalina and that loopy ending.
It's almost like to him, Mario plot complexity never evolved past Super Mario Bros. 1. It's fine for something to appeal to everyone and try not to confuse people with continuity or whatever, but not all kids can be taken for granted since some do appreciate involved stories.
I love Super Mario Galaxy 2. It's my 6th favorite Mario game.
My favorite Mario games are:
1. Super Mario RPG
2. Paper Mario Ttyd
3. Super Mario Odyssey
4. Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga
5. Mario and Luigi Partners in Time
6. Super Mario Galaxy 2
7. Super Mario 3D World
A Super Mario 3D World Switch Port would also be really cool
