Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[DaxMasterix]

Sakurai recently brushed off anime characters for having too many copyright issues, and Dragon Quest is in the same boat.

Can I have some extra sauce with this?

 

[SSGuy]

The narrative that insiders have been providing is constantly changing now. Am I suppose to believe Square is the most vacuum sealed anti-leak company? Or am I suppose to just accept that Square Enix had 7 names reach outside of the company?

The anime quote is interesting but I wonder if Dragon Quest would still fall under the same category as Dragon Ball Z or something like that.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The difference is that most of the credible leakers this cycle are cashing in all their chips on it. In an age where online harassment is so wide spread, this is a huge risk and leaving the door wide open. They're pretty much basing their entire online reputations on it and all but welcoming being laughing stocks if they're wrong.

 

[paper roxy]

do people who say dragon quest is the grandaddy of all jrpgs not realize final fantasy, which was only a year younger than dragon quest, was very likely in development at the same time? from what i've read, the only thing dragon quest did to inspire final fantasy (which sakaguchi had the idea for for a long time supposedly) was to convince square it was profitable.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If we want to be technical, Hydlide came before either. It aged really poorly, yes, but it still counts.

Specifically the computer original, not the NES port that came later.

 

[link2702]

So someone mentioned earlier that geno isn’t shown in credits as owned by square or anything...and it’s probably been brought up already, but...what if Nintendo did in fact buy all rights to geno? And we get someone like the dq rep, only to quickly get another announcement showing geno’s trailer, followed by, that through some heavy negotiating, Nintendo now owns all rights to the original content of smrpg (except maybe culex), so expect to see some of it’s characters possibly showing up in Mario spin-offs and even the main universe?

Yes massive wishful thinking, but when has it not ever been for us?

Also I’d still say don’t throw the towel in yet, remember everyone was so sure the se character would be revealed first, and NO ONE expected joker from persona, yet look what happened.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So someone mentioned earlier that geno isn’t shown in credits as owned by square or anything...and it’s probably been brought up already, but...what if Nintendo did in fact buy all rights to geno? And we get someone like the dq rep, only to quickly get another announcement showing geno’s trailer, followed by, that through some heavy negotiating, Nintendo now owns all rights to the original content of smrpg (except maybe culex), so expect to see some of it’s characters possibly showing up in Mario spin-offs and even the main universe?

Yes massive wishful thinking, but when has it not ever been for us?

Also I’d still say don’t throw the towel in yet, remember everyone was so sure the se character would be revealed first, and NO ONE expected joker from persona, yet look what happened.

I actually did think of a similar possibilty. It might seem crazy, but as it's been said before, there's virtually zero reasons for SE to use Geno nowadays, so why not be a good sport and let Nintendo buy him along with the rights of other SMRPG characters?

 

[HolyKnight]

But nobody really cares about this aside from the die hard fans of the franchise. If legacy is a major argument, that opens up a major can of worms. Why not Contra? Why not Ghouls N Ghosts? Why not Portal? Why not NIGHTS? Why not Halo? Why not Doom? Why not Ninja Gaiden? Why not Chrono Trigger? Why not Double Dragon? Why not Golden Axe? Why not Dragon's Lair? Why not King's Quest? Why not Banjo Kazooie? Why not Tetris? Why not Beyond Good and Evil? Why not Crash Bandicoot? Why not Resident Evil? Why not Silent Hill? Why not Joust? Why not Burger Time? Why not Dig Dug? See what I'm getting at? The "legacy" argument is not hard to make and encompasses a huge number of characters that people actually want in Smash. Like pointed out here, you could do it for SMRPG too based on timed hits, being the first Mario game with a real story and character arcs, and more or less being one of Yoko Shimomura's first iconic soundtracks but nobody really runs with the argument like they are for Dragon Quest. The reason for this is that this is the only way people can justify DQ while dancing around the blatant shilling aspect it. The main reaction will be apathy and indifference outside Japan and that's just the way it is.

I'd be happy as hell to get digdug content, probably a stage and an AT but, dig dug is my favorite arcade game

 

[Loliko YnT]

So someone mentioned earlier that geno isn’t shown in credits as owned by square or anything...and it’s probably been brought up already, but...what if Nintendo did in fact buy all rights to geno? And we get someone like the dq rep, only to quickly get another announcement showing geno’s trailer, followed by, that through some heavy negotiating, Nintendo now owns all rights to the original content of smrpg (except maybe culex), so expect to see some of it’s characters possibly showing up in Mario spin-offs and even the main universe?

Yes massive wishful thinking, but when has it not ever been for us?

Also I’d still say don’t throw the towel in yet, remember everyone was so sure the se character would be revealed first, and NO ONE expected joker from persona, yet look what happened.

I think they could have done that with Ultimate. It may explain why they couldn't get more FF content , it would be too expensive otherwise.

But we should look in the credit if companies like Wayforward and Yacht Games are credited for their characters (Shantae/Shovel Knight)... I don't know if they mentionned legal rights in the credits for spirits and assist trophies.

 

[Ovaltine]

I think they could have done that with Ultimate. It may explain why they couldn't get more FF content , it would be too expensive otherwise.

But we should look in the credit if companies like Wayforward and Yacht Games are credited for their characters (Shantae/Shovel Knight)... I don't know if they mentionned legal rights in the credits for spirits and assist trophies.

I can confirm that Wayforward and Yacht Games were in the credits for their characters, so that's correct. Geno's definitely a bit of an odd case. More than likely, 'Square Enix' being credited for Smash is just a blanket thing that also includes Geno.

 

[The Anigriffin]

I think they could have done that with Ultimate. It may explain why they couldn't get more FF content , it would be too expensive otherwise.

But we should look in the credit if companies like Wayforward and Yacht Games are credited for their characters (Shantae/Shovel Knight)... I don't know if they mentionned legal rights in the credits for spirits and assist trophies.

I can confirm that Wayforward and Yacht Games were in the credits for their characters, so that's correct. Geno's definitely a bit of an odd case. More than likely, 'Square Enix' being credited for Smash is just a blanket thing that also includes Geno.

:Sips tea then smashes the cup on the ground: Watson! By Jove we’ve got a mystery on our hands!

 

[link2702]

Well it’s certainly something new to discuss at least then...

 

[Deleted member]

So someone mentioned earlier that geno isn’t shown in credits as owned by square or anything...and it’s probably been brought up already, but...what if Nintendo did in fact buy all rights to geno? And we get someone like the dq rep, only to quickly get another announcement showing geno’s trailer, followed by, that through some heavy negotiating, Nintendo now owns all rights to the original content of smrpg (except maybe culex), so expect to see some of it’s characters possibly showing up in Mario spin-offs and even the main universe?

Yes massive wishful thinking, but when has it not ever been for us?

Also I’d still say don’t throw the towel in yet, remember everyone was so sure the se character would be revealed first, and NO ONE expected joker from persona, yet look what happened.

I actually did think of a similar possibilty. It might seem crazy, but as it's been said before, there's virtually zero reasons for SE to use Geno nowadays, so why not be a good sport and let Nintendo buy him along with the rights of other SMRPG characters?

This is my kind of thinking. I love it

 

[Ovaltine]

As much as I would love to know if Nintendo got permanent rights to all SMRPG assets, there's really not much evidence towards it. It would be a dream come true, but if such was the case, then why didn't Geno get his cameo in the Superstar Saga remake? For this purchase to have happened, it would have had to be extremely recent, and I'm not so sure I buy that, especially with how greedy Square is. What would give them incentive to sell those rights to Nintendo, let alone to even bat an eyelash at anything SMRPG? Money is an obvious answer, but I can only imagine they'd drive a really hard bargain.

Remember, this is Square we're talking about. Nintendo can be pretty corporate-minded over fan-focused sometimes, but Square is the pinnacle of corporate money-grubbing. Even if Nintendo cares more for Geno, Mallow, and company, Square's lack thereof could be either a blessing or a curse.

 

[The Anigriffin]

As much as I would love to know if Nintendo got permanent rights to all SMRPG assets, there's really not much evidence towards it. It would be a dream come true, but if such was the case, then why didn't Geno get his cameo in the Superstar Saga remake? For this purchase to have happened, it would have had to be extremely recent, and I'm not so sure I buy that, especially with how greedy Square is. What would give them incentive to sell those rights to Nintendo, let alone to even bat an eyelash at anything SMRPG? Money is an obvious answer, but I can only imagine they'd drive a really hard bargain.

Remember, this is Square we're talking about. Nintendo can be pretty corporate-minded over fan-focused sometimes, but Square is the pinnacle of corporate money-grubbing. Even if Nintendo cares more for Geno, Mallow, and company, Square's lack thereof could be either a blessing or a curse.

The reason why I'm suspicious is because of how his copywrite was handled in Superstar Saga. He had his own separate section dedicated to him. You'd think Square would be a bit more particular on who they own especially since one is a player icon.

 

[childishgamgeno]

As much as I would love to know if Nintendo got permanent rights to all SMRPG assets, there's really not much evidence towards it. It would be a dream come true, but if such was the case, then why didn't Geno get his cameo in the Superstar Saga remake? For this purchase to have happened, it would have had to be extremely recent, and I'm not so sure I buy that, especially with how greedy Square is. What would give them incentive to sell those rights to Nintendo, let alone to even bat an eyelash at anything SMRPG? Money is an obvious answer, but I can only imagine they'd drive a really hard bargain.

Remember, this is Square we're talking about. Nintendo can be pretty corporate-minded over fan-focused sometimes, but Square is the pinnacle of corporate money-grubbing. Even if Nintendo cares more for Geno, Mallow, and company, Square's lack thereof could be either a blessing or a curse.

As much as I would love to know if Nintendo got permanent rights to all SMRPG assets, there's really not much evidence towards it. It would be a dream come true, but if such was the case, then why didn't Geno get his cameo in the Superstar Saga remake? For this purchase to have happened, it would have had to be extremely recent, and I'm not so sure I buy that, especially with how greedy Square is. What would give them incentive to sell those rights to Nintendo, let alone to even bat an eyelash at anything SMRPG? Money is an obvious answer, but I can only imagine they'd drive a really hard bargain.

Remember, this is Square we're talking about. Nintendo can be pretty corporate-minded over fan-focused sometimes, but Square is the pinnacle of corporate money-grubbing. Even if Nintendo cares more for Geno, Mallow, and company, Square's lack thereof could be either a blessing or a curse.

While unlikely, I could see it as something Sakurai would do to try to not only please everyone, but as a final act in Smash to put in a character he always wanted.

Of course business doesn’t always work out that magically but maybe

 

[Deleted member]

As much as I would love to know if Nintendo got permanent rights to all SMRPG assets, there's really not much evidence towards it. It would be a dream come true, but if such was the case, then why didn't Geno get his cameo in the Superstar Saga remake? For this purchase to have happened, it would have had to be extremely recent, and I'm not so sure I buy that, especially with how greedy Square is. What would give them incentive to sell those rights to Nintendo, let alone to even bat an eyelash at anything SMRPG? Money is an obvious answer, but I can only imagine they'd drive a really hard bargain.

Remember, this is Square we're talking about. Nintendo can be pretty corporate-minded over fan-focused sometimes, but Square is the pinnacle of corporate money-grubbing. Even if Nintendo cares more for Geno, Mallow, and company, Square's lack thereof could be either a blessing or a curse.

Praying that it is a blessing

We will buy him ourselves from SE if Nintendo can't

 

[dreamstar_g]

Praying that it is a blessing

We will buy him ourselves from SE if Nintendo can't

Every Geno fan combines their money, next thing you know we own him

 

[valkiriforce]

Raising money to bail Geno out of a hostage crisis in Square prison sounds like an incentive I can get behind.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

We should start a gofundme to buy the rights to Geno, then after we get him, give him to Nintendo for free.

 

[HolyKnight]

We should start a gofundme to buy the rights to Geno, then after we get him, give him to Nintendo for free.

free?
nononononononono
free with the promise of his use, in writing.

 

[Ze Diglett]

The reason why I'm suspicious is because of how his copywrite was handled in Superstar Saga. He had his own separate section dedicated to him. You'd think Square would be a bit more particular on who they own especially since one is a player icon.

That was probably because it also said something along the lines of "All characters in this game are property of Nintendo" earlier in the credits, which Geno is obviously an exception to. Smash doesn't have anything like that since it pulls characters from several third-party companies, so claiming Nintendo owns everything would be counter-productive. Incidentally, the lack of that specific cameo's return in the remake makes me doubtful that Nintendo owns the rights to Geno since I believe it was due to budgetary constraints that it was left out anyway, Bowser's Minions being a budget title and all. I mean, it's either that or Nintendo just really hates Geno and left the cameo out on purpose, which I'm incredibly doubtful of.

 

[Deleted member]

That was probably because it also said something along the lines of "All characters in this game are property of Nintendo" earlier in the credits, which Geno is obviously an exception to. Smash doesn't have anything like that since it pulls characters from several third-party companies, so claiming Nintendo owns everything would be counter-productive. Incidentally, the lack of that specific cameo's return in the remake makes me doubtful that Nintendo owns the rights to Geno since I believe it was due to budgetary constraints that it was left out anyway, Bowser's Minions being a budget title and all. I mean, it's either that or Nintendo just really hates Geno and left the cameo out on purpose, which I'm incredibly doubtful of.

Maybe he wasn't in the remake because Nintendo was using the money to buy him :D Nintendo also hates Geno because they didn't tweet earlier this year "Are you team Mallow or team Geno?", they didn't pay HQ to advertise him and SMRPG, and they didn't include him in any way in Smash Ultimate and they didn't make him a legendary spirit

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

So I heard Erdrick is supposedly leaked? People are taking leaks as if they're real again, yikes. I don't trust leaks anymore, especially after the grinch leak. How exactly is Erdrick looking likely? Because one credible guy said something about Erdrick? My whole YouTube feed is being spammed with "Erdrick leaked" videos. Gosh, if Square or Nintendo decided to go with Erdrick, they really got butt-****ed with the profits. If this is the case, they'll have to split his profits with Nintendo, Bandai Namco, Square, Armor Project, Heartbeat, and the other company. Wow, 1/6 of his profits go to each of them, that's a total screw over for them.

 

[GoodGrief741]

But nobody really cares about this aside from the die hard fans of the franchise. If legacy is a major argument, that opens up a major can of worms. Why not Contra? Why not Ghouls N Ghosts? Why not Portal? Why not NIGHTS? Why not Halo? Why not Doom? Why not Ninja Gaiden? Why not Chrono Trigger? Why not Double Dragon? Why not Golden Axe? Why not Dragon's Lair? Why not King's Quest? Why not Banjo Kazooie? Why not Tetris? Why not Beyond Good and Evil? Why not Crash Bandicoot? Why not Resident Evil? Why not Silent Hill? Why not Joust? Why not Burger Time? Why not Dig Dug? See what I'm getting at? The "legacy" argument is not hard to make and encompasses a huge number of characters that people actually want in Smash. Like pointed out here, you could do it for SMRPG too based on timed hits, being the first Mario game with a real story and character arcs, and more or less being one of Yoko Shimomura's first iconic soundtracks but nobody really runs with the argument like they are for Dragon Quest. The reason for this is that this is the only way people can justify DQ while dancing around the blatant shilling aspect it. The main reaction will be apathy and indifference outside Japan and that's just the way it is.

What you don’t realize is that that can of worms is already open. That’s Sakurai’s vision for Smash, he wants to make it the ultimate celebration of gaming history. So we will get Ninja Gaiden, and Banjo Kazooie, and Crash, down the line.

It’s not something I’m exactly fond of, but I’ve come to terms with it.

Castlevania is recognizable anywhere, and Metroid is one of the most popular Nintendo franchises. These aren't overwhelmingly popular in just one place. DQ is, and in Japan.

Fire Emblem became successful with one attempt. SE has tried multiple times to introduce DQ here.

Fire Emblem became successful with one attempt? Don’t make me laugh. What do you call every Fire Emblem game between Blazing Sword and Awakening?

And Metroid and Castlevania just never caught on in their home country. I’d even go so far as to say Metroid is overwhelmingly more popular in the West than in Japan.

 

[FalconFire93]

People are all of a sudden believing the Erdrick leak? Have these people been living under a rock? The Grinch Leak had a lot of evidence too, but it was also a fake, so I’m not gonna believe all of these so called text leaks either and you know LaxChris is milking all of this to make videos for views.

 

[Deleted member]

What you don’t realize is that that can of worms is already open. That’s Sakurai’s vision for Smash, he wants to make it the ultimate celebration of gaming history. So we will get Ninja Gaiden, and Banjo Kazooie, and Crash, down the line.

It’s not something I’m exactly fond of, but I’ve come to terms with it.



Fire Emblem became successful with one attempt? Don’t make me laugh. What do you call every Fire Emblem game between Blazing Sword and Awakening?

And Metroid and Castlevania just never caught on in their home country. I’d even go so far as to say Metroid is overwhelmingly more popular in the West than in Japan.

Fire Emblem was introduced to the west when Marth and Roy were added to Melee. Keep in mind that Marth was the last 100% unique character added due to Japan demand. DQ has VERY little demand for Smash, if not none at all. It's third party, and you have to negotiate with 4 parties at the minimum to get a DQ character. This, and again, SE has tried numerous times to introduce DQ to the west, but it failed, each time

Castlevania and Metroid may be popular in one place more than the other, but not to the point DQ is in Japan. Castlevania is recognizable everywhere, something DQ isn't. And, actually, Metroid is balanced in popularity in the west and the east, more than you are giving it credit for

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Maybe instead of including Dragon Quest to promote Dragon Quest, they could include it because it’s one of the most legendary franchises in gaming history and deserves to be there.

Then nobody would complain, right?

If they tried to include it to show its legendary franchise and not make people complain, then they completely failed.

Tetris is even more deserving for a spot in Smash than Dragon Quest because it's the most sold game worldwide, not in one country like DQ is, and Tetris had lots of great history with games. Tetris was created by the badass Russians, two mother****ing Russians. I want my goddamn Russian Tetris block as a character than Goku #43's clone!

What you don’t realize is that that can of worms is already open. That’s Sakurai’s vision for Smash, he wants to make it the ultimate celebration of gaming history. So we will get Ninja Gaiden, and Banjo Kazooie, and Crash, down the line.

Nintendo chose the DLC, not Sakurai. If Sakurai wanted a DQ character, he would've asked for one back in Brawl. Sakurai didn't, he asked for Geno because he knows he means a lot to him and the fans, a DQ character doesn't because not even the most requested (Slime) can't even make it in the top 100 on the polls.

If the DQ composer doesn't like sharing his soundtrack with the west, I doubt he'd be up for the job.
Nintendo: Sir, we would like to put your soundtrack in our game for our next DLC character!
Sakurai: Yep, and we'll be sharing it with the entire world too!
Sugiyama: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! It's only for our side only. If you want me to lend your soundtracks to you so the west can hear it, then no. **** off and get out of my office. And don't come back either.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The rumor basically has a detonation switch anyways. Jump Festa on the 22nd is pretty much the only place an Erdrick reveal would go over well aside from the Tokyo Game Show next September. Pretty much everyone agrees that a Direct reveal would fall flat and god forbid E3 because of how super Japanese centric the character is. Its chances of being fake or even leak bait goes up significantly after that.

 

[The Anigriffin]

People are all of a sudden believing the Erdrick leak? Have these people been living under a rock? The Grinch Leak had a lot of evidence too, but it was also a fake, so I’m not gonna believe all of these so called text leaks either and you know LaxChris is milking all of this to make videos for views.

Honestly at this point, he's ignoring all criticism even from those close to him. I've tried since October to try to get his content better and try to move on from leaks but nope... Because he's was founded on leaks, that he's just gonna keep doing them. I feel bad talking bad about him since I'm one of his Discord mods but damn... I just wish he would listen you know?

 

[ShinyReshiram]

Welcome to the Dragon Quest Thread, I guess.

Anyway, I'm slowly but steady progressing though the WoL, cuz being busy and sick sucks a lot. I just recently finally got Geno and oh boy he really made me to sweat for 5 times in a row before I finally realized that I could just use DK+Giant Zapfish spirit lmao. Dr. Wily fight gave me more troubles tbh. But it's really great to see Geno again, even if it's just a PNG picture.

Spoiler: im dumb and dont want to google

Now where can I get Mallow?

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Welcome to the Dragon Quest Thread, I guess.

Anyway, I'm slowly but steady progressing though the WoL, cuz being busy and sick sucks a lot. I just recently finally got Geno and oh boy he really made me to sweat for 5 times in a row before I finally realized that I could just use DK+Giant Zapfish spirit lmao. Dr. Wily fight gave me more troubles tbh. But it's really great to see Geno again, even if it's just a PNG picture.

Spoiler: im dumb and dont want to google

Now where can I get Mallow?

Spoiler

He's in the WoL, I'm pretty sure I remember him being on the right side. I don't exactly remember. I fought him after Geno I think, but that's because I explored the left of the map first.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Welcome to the Dragon Quest Thread, I guess.

Anyway, I'm slowly but steady progressing though the WoL, cuz being busy and sick sucks a lot. I just recently finally got Geno and oh boy he really made me to sweat for 5 times in a row before I finally realized that I could just use DK+Giant Zapfish spirit lmao. Dr. Wily fight gave me more troubles tbh. But it's really great to see Geno again, even if it's just a PNG picture.

Spoiler: im dumb and dont want to google

Now where can I get Mallow?

Spoiler

If you're facing the whole map, Mallow's in the top right (not the far top right). His spirit is located on Galeem's left, he's in the cloud area. Mallow is not in the space area, but you'll find Geno there.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

Probably not the best place to post this, but does anyone have a lits of what spirits are found where? Google is failing me.

 

[Deleted member]

Probably not the best place to post this, but does anyone have a lits of what spirits are found where? Google is failing me.

Every place on the internet is failing me as well lol

 

[Deleted member]

The idea that Nintendo specifically priced the game around an increased price model is absolute bull****. Smash is a goddamn miracle in the modern day of fighters. If they wanted to really get the money out of us, we wouldn't have a 1/4th of the content we got. We would have had 20 characters, 10 stages and 4-5 seasons of content.

We got all returning fighters (Which was supposed to be the big moment) with tons of tweaks, a game engine that plays like Melee, almost every stage in series history in the game, and an extensively designed Spirits and World of Light alongside individual Classic modes and other content. Plus the new fighters and stages. Now I know maybe not as many as people wanted new wise and that Spirits may not be everyone's cup of tea, but those are issues with the game direction, not an attempt to nickel and dime us.

The development time was pretty much equal to Brawl and Smash 4 as well, and you were working with significantly fewer characters back then. The whole EXPECT seven characters was always a self-made fan belief. Sakurai plainly told everyone what to expect and made a huge point about the content that was there. Everyone who expected that much more with such a limited time for reveals had created that narrative for themselves...

If anything, the only rush for the game would have been the December 2018 deadline to have a big release for the year given the relatively calmer period of releases for the overall year. They MAY have run out of time there, but why bother when objectively it's going to be better to the DLC model when they've provided so much content. Nintendo has made a clear commitment to DLC practices recently and supporting games afterward. I think a lot of people seriously underestimate how much work all of the returning content was. I may not be super thrilled about the absolute focus on Spirits and less new content, but those were clear design decisions with regards to priority.

Plus, Ultimate has added 18 characters from Smash Wii U, which is the equivalent to how many characters where added in Brawl and Smash 4 WITH cuts still happening...

Sorry, I take a big issue with how people suggest the game was intentionally designed from a certain mindset business wise, was lazy, or any thing of the sort. You're doing a massive deisservice to Sakurai and all the work he put in. You don't have to agree wit his decisions, but I think it's pretty clear he made the expansive game he wanted to and that was that.

Alright, so what I wanna say first is that I really DO agree with almost everything you say. Smash is amazing, the fact that Ultimate even exists the way it does is incredible and, as I said, its mere existence is enough to make me happy. I'm not at ALL trying to discredit the work Sakurai and his team put into making the game a real thing that actually exists in the modern world. Simply put, all I'm trying to do is as I originally said: call a spade a spade.

To me, it's quite clear that Nintendo wanted to make the most money they possibly could off of Smash Ultimate solely because of one distinct, irrefutable fact: They created an extremely content-packed Smash game in full HD on a console that sold far below their expectations. This was, of course, Smash 4.

I know that the game was also on the 3DS, but it's clear that a lot of extra development costs went towards making it for the Wii U. The game still ran at a steady 60fps despite being in full HD, something Nintendo struggled to transition to smoothly. A lot of heavy-hitting development costs were poured into this game, only to really go to waste compared to how well Melee and Brawl sold for their time periods. The fact that Nintendo is porting and reselling many Wii U games to the Switch for a full-priced $59.99 proves exactly how Nintendo really wasn't satisfied with the sales numbers of these games and wants to continue selling them.

I feel like Smash Ultimate is clearly facing a similar situation. Let me explain how.

Let's get into it by talking about the history of new content in past Smash sequels.

SSB64 - 12 fighters
SSBM - 26 fighters
SSBB - 38 fighters (including Pokemon trainer as 1)
SSB4 - 58 fighters (including Mii fighters and DLC)
SSBU - 75 fighters (including Mii fighters, Pokemon trainer as 1, and Piranha Plant)

Now, as you can see, there's a steady theme going on here: each Smash sequel has loads of new content. From 64 to Melee, we gained 14 additional fighters in addition to incredible new stages, mechanics, a timeless controller that is still considered the best peripheral to play Smash on, etc. From Melee to Brawl, we gained a few less fighters than before; only 12 additional ones, HOWEVER, these were all great additions. A lot of fat was trimmed such as Pichu and Dr Mario, and pretty much every newcomer felt like they really deserved their spot, with HUGE additions in Snake and Sonic. Plus, Subspace Emissary and online support right out of the box. And then, of course, a whopping TWENTY new fighters from Brawl to 4, in addition to the game running really well despite being in HD, something that Nintendo had a tough time transitioning to as a whole.

And then, 4 to Ultimate. We gained 17 new fighters; a lot were returning veterans, and as for how the game runs? The Switch hardware is very similar to the Wii U as a whole, essentially just serving as a much easier and understood chipset to develop for with more ram to play around with, which has lead to Smash Ultimate looking very similar to 4 on the Wii U as a whole.

I think a fair argument that can be made here is that this count includes paid DLC for 4, but doesn't for Ultimate, despite Ultimate having 5 paid DLC characters confirmed so far. And that's a fair argument, but it does play into the point I'm trying to make here; in order for Ultimate to feel like a true Smash sequel in terms of new content, it's required that you spend $84.98 on the game.

Now, it is fair to say that a lot more may have had to go into licensing and getting other companies on-board purely because there's a reason why a lot of these characters suddenly disappeared from past games. And while that may be true, it's something I'm not inclined to believe fully after the news came out that Square Enix and Cloud were almost the reason why Ultimate never happened. If I had to guess based off of the E3 showing alone who almost kept Ultimate from happening, I would without a doubt say Konami, considering how little they deal in console video games these days. However, the fact that not only Snake came back, but Simon AND Richter both got added in as brand new newcomers, has me believe that it couldn't have been all that hard working with other companies to bring every veteran back if Square Enix, a company 100% on-board with putting Cloud in not even 3 years prior, was the hardest company to deal with when it came to back-end licensing.

This is why I believe that there's a very good chance that Smash Ultimate is Nintendo wanting to make as much money as they possibly can off of the foundation they created with Smash 4, and why they likely cut development a bit shorter than they could have in order to attempt to make more money off of their product. The game looks very similar to Smash 4, plays quite a bit differently but still similarly enough to know that the game was most likely made in a modified version of the same game engine, has some brand new fighters but many are just remastered/slightly tweaked versions of pre-existing ones (which, if you've ever worked in design, engineering, or even game development (like I have), you'll know that creating a piece of work from scratch is about 10x as much work as graphically remastering an old but already developed piece of work), and as a whole doesn't feel like a WHOLE new game like every Smash sequel has in the past.

Let me sum it up with a comparison a lot of people will probably have no issues understanding: Smash 4 to Smash Ultimate reminds me a lot of Windows Vista to Windows 7. There were some small differences that a lot of people loved, but for the most part, both were EXTREMELY similar and the main reason why people loved the latter more than the former were simply because of the fact that the latter was on newer and better hardware. And because of that, because of the new hardware and because of a lot of the good, old things being incorporated into the new one, people fell in love with the new one.

I think this is fine. I think Nintendo wanting to make more money after 3-4 straight years of financial losses and wanting to give the HD games they worked really hard to develop on under-performing hardware a second chance is completely fine. I consider games like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Bayonetta 2, and DK Country Tropical Freeze better than most $60 AAA games like Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty, and have no problem spending $60 on them despite them already being out for years. And that's kind of how I feel about Smash Ultimate as well.

People would've been happy if Ultimate instead ended up being a port of Smash 4 with all the DLC included and nothing more than that. The fact that it ended up being Ultimate as it is is just a bonus to everyone, and I think that the game becoming just that is absolutely incredible. However, that doesn't automatically mean the game is perfect, and the best it could have possibly ever been. And I think that having that thought and explaining why I have that thought doesn't at ALL discredit Nintendo, Sakurai, or his team. I think what it does is make me a normal consumer, a non-fanboy, who wants to see these products get better. And that's not me saying that you're a fanboy either; you could be, I don't know if you are so I won't make any assumptions. But what I am saying is that I, personally, am not one and will speak my mind no matter how good a product ends up being. Even the best things in the world can be better, nothing is perfect but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing to strive for perfection and constantly try to make things better.

So yeah. What Nintendo is doing is fine, I have no issues with it. I pre-ordered Ultimate back in August, I've already pre-ordered the Fighters Pass, and I assume I'll pre-order any future DLC if there ends up being any as well. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of signs surrounding the idea that maybe Nintendo did cut development for Ultimate a bit short for the sake of making a little more money. As I said, calling a spade a spade, not at all trying to discredit anyone's work.

 

[MattX20]

I just 100% Ultimate. Cleared World of Light and New Game Plus, got all 876 music tracks, got every spirit in the base game, unlocked all the characters, completed all 124 challenges and cleared every classic mode run. That's everything until the DLC. And yeah, I don't expect we'll see anything at Jump Festa. We're more likely going to see more updates for Shonen Jump centric titles like Jump Force or see the rumored second season for FighterZ, nothing for Smash.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

The "Must-have" phrase from them is going into the trash instantly if Erdrick happens. This is gonna end up getting worser reception than Ryu or Corrin

 

[Deleted member]

I'm starting to lose a bit of hope when it comes to Geno joining Smash. It's still there, but it's just slowly disappearing. Maybe it's just not his time. It's come to a point where all I want his for his Mii costume to come back.

 

[HolyKnight]

I'm starting to lose a bit of hope when it comes to Geno joining Smash. It's still there, but it's just slowly disappearing. Maybe it's just not his time. It's come to a point where all I want his for his Mii costume to come back.

Nah, don't fall to the bargaining stage. We either get Geno, or squeenix can Fk off. Thats the hill I will die on.