Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[OptimisticStrifer]

You are misinterpreting my words.
I'm criticizing the idea of boycotting DQ because of one person in a huge team of people. And considering every entertainment piece has at least one person with a controversial opinion, this line of thought can be applied to anything. It's a matter of having the maturity of differentiating a person from the group.
And it's ridiculous to assume that boycotting a whole project would be a direct punishment to the one guy, who has numerous other projects he works on, and that. Don't consume anything then.

So because one person doesn't make the whole thing, and it's a group effort, we should...just let the behavior slide, shut up, and buy our product?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't think it's ENTIRELY unlikely that they'd reveal all the characters at once, but gameplay of all of them?

VERY doubtful.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

If they were to reveal all the characters, it would have to be an SF5 style reveal.

 

[ChoccyStar]

I'm just saying, if I were you, I wouldn't get my hopes up too much for Geno. I don't think he's likely, but that's just me. Maybe if SMRPG was still going strong he might have a better shot, and maybe if he didn't already have a spirit battle. I know it's not what people on a Geno thread want to hear, but I'm just saying, I wouldn't expect him to be shown off tomorrow. I think other SE characters have a better chance.

It's fine Kuon, I'm also a longtime Geno supporter but I also feel his chances are very low, some people just think otherwise. I just can find myself being optimistic with the history of everyone involved on having Geno in Smash (SquareEnix, Nintendo, Sakurai).

 

[HMpoweredMan]

I'd imagine if they are announcing any DLC for smash they would announce all 5. It'd be a good idea right as the game is launching to sell people on the DLC.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I don't think it's ENTIRELY unlikely that they'd reveal all the characters at once, but gameplay of all of them?

VERY doubtful.

Little do you know; Sakurai will actually demonstrate gameplay entirely through his video game action figures and footage from their source games

 

[MajoraMan28]

So because one person doesn't make the whole thing, and it's a group effort, we should...just let the behavior slide, shut up, and buy our product?

Uhhh, no? Bc the denouncing of bigotry is already a stance to take and leads to him having a harder time in the industry.
You're screwing over a lot more people bc you want to send a message you could be sending more directly to him. It's full identity politics to have the individual and group as equals, btw.

 

[paper roxy]

Like I said, pretty sure Square would want a cut from a big pie.

the big cut theyd get is from geno dlc/amiibo sales probably. expecting a big cut when youre a third party on one of the biggest releases on the switch isnt how you would want to approach this if youd wanna be taken seriously

 

[Kuon]

So because one person doesn't make the whole thing, and it's a group effort, we should...just let the behavior slide, shut up, and buy our product?

Whether they agree with it or not, if they like the product, the majority of people will still buy it either way

 

[Looma]

Well, I have bad news for you. Almost every entertainment product you consume has someone who politically disagrees with you regarding identity politics (the gaijin accusations are absolute garbage btw, as there's nothing that supports that claim) and gets a share from the money you pay for them because they're associated with the product itself. You see here how big of a falacy that line of logic can be.
But, if you really feel like this, I wonder how you feel with every piece of media out there except news organizations. .

Don't be an idiot, don't drag the thread into this hole because you feel the need to make yourself look smart via condescending on the internet.

 

[Luigifan18]

For DQ or other options?

For DQ, specifically in the context of the homophobic Holocaust denier.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Whether they agree with it or not, if they like the product, the majority of people will still buy it either way

But supporting the product puts money into the pocket of the composer. Especially with music being one of the advertised points of the DLC this time around. Unless there was ANOTHER dragon quest composer who's a lot less well known.

 

[paper roxy]

Whether they agree with it or not, if they like the product, the majority of people will still buy it either way

the potential of people boycotting and the fact that dragon quest is already super unpopular in the west after being here for a while would just make another attempt to reintroduce it through smash a waste of a character slot to the majority of people

 

[skydogc]

What? Lol, Nintendo going to reveal all DLC at once? BS

I think I kinda go by the Arlo approach regarding Nintendo announcements. Whatever you expected, is not going to be what happens...which is exactly what Nintendo knows you'll expect, so they'll do exactly that...except they anticipated you'd know, so they won't...but then they will...and...oof, ouch my brain.

But I agree with you - all 5? lolnope

 

[paper roxy]

I think I kinda go by the Arlo approach regarding Nintendo announcements. Whatever you expected, is not going to be what happens...which is exactly what Nintendo knows you'll expect, so they'll do exactly that...except they anticipated you'd know, so they won't...but then they will...and...oof, ouch my brain.

But I agree with you - all 5? lolnope

really this was arlo trying to get arlo as dlc. not just the puppet part, the arlo puppet is being controlled by arlo and he's very visible the entire match. truly what no one ever expected

 

[Kuon]

I'd imagine if they are announcing any DLC for smash they would announce all 5. It'd be a good idea right as the game is launching to sell people on the DLC.

But if they want to keep the hype of the game going, which they do, it would make more sense to announce each DLC character one at a time, spread out over the next year

 

[paper roxy]

But if they want to keep the hype of the game going, which they do, it would make more sense to announce each DLC character one at a time, spread out over the next year

i think for a big chunk of people waiting for the releases would be hype. its not like knowing what characters will be in suddenly makes everyone stop caring about the game (in the case of ridley, k rool, and the everyone is here junk it did the opposite actually)

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

If they were to reveal all the characters, it would have to be an SF5 style reveal.

May I see a link to this oft-referenced trailer? All the ones I'm finding only talk about one character at a time.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Stuff that would benefit both Nintendo and Square? And part of that is stuff assumed to be coming if at all.

You know that Square wants a big share from a big pie.

Going off of polls on Smash related topics? Not exactly sure that's your best bet for what the general gaming masses may want.

I mean, Smash talk generally attracts the Smash core fanbase. And yeah, not claiming they should ignore that, but nothing really is objective regarding the official ballot until we hear from Nintendo themselves, so at best, either side has a well educated guess or assumption.


It's literally how things are set that make him more viable though compared to Geno though. Say what you will about supposedly not being asked for as much, but by that logic if he was asked for more in the ballot, why did Cloud, a character with supposedly no business being on a Nintendo crossover at the time, beat him to getting in?

And now, think about it, unless Nintendo themselves have something to tap into, what gurantee do they have that just because people have asked for Geno that his fanbase would financially outlast the green that Final Fantasy VII has been famous for raking in, regardles of what platform of medium it's shown up on?

More in short term doesn't always fit v the business long term sight. Just food for thought.

It ain't a matter of him simply having more games than Geno either, but how even now, people know him and talk a good game up about him. And who's to say people wouldn't grow interested in him? Even Nintendo fans will have keen access to his home game on the Switch if they want to know about him first hand, so there's that.

Past history has shown that Final Fantasy (especially VII) fans will flock in for it.

Not saying Sephiroth is guaranteed, but you can't deny that it would be a good gameplan based off of stuff actually confirmed to be present or in the making.

It's not like Square isn't already getting a big share. And quite honestly, what bigger share than...Mario? Only like, idk, number 1 video game character of all time? What's no appealing about reintroducing a fan favorite character into a franchise and take in a little profit from his inclusion? And now that I think about it, thats probably freaking why Square hasn't just straight up sold the right to Nintendo, because Nintendo will USE THE CHARACTER and we will flock to it, and it is theoretically financially smart to keep a character with ties to Mario.

Why wouldn't we go off polls on Smash related topics tho? This..is Smash (Sparta). If Smash was concerned with just the general audience then we'd probably have Ray Man and Crash and Banjo and Spyro. And yes we don't know the results of the ballot, but we can glean what they looked like from what we got in Ultimate, and from several, SEVERAL fan polls since then. And again, iirc, Cloud was in before the ballot. Cloud is . gaming icon, and he's not a retro pick because he's had several games since his first and he was post "sprite-era".

Geno would financially outlast FFVII due to his connection to Mario. Like you said, more in short term doesnt always fit business long term. Sephy in Smash, is, in theory, shorter term than Geno. Sephiroth is limited to one game in a game franchise that Nintendo doesn't own. Fact. His long term sales will only be to Final Fantasy, and probably only VII. Geno can, hypothetically be used in several games spanning the future of Mario indefinitely. This is evidenced by his appearance in 4 seperate Nintendo games with 3 of those games being outside of his core game. The SNES Classic (SMRPG), as Reggie stated was sort of a prototype for what they were going to do with Switch Online. I'd like to think those games are going to make an appearance on the Switch sometime very soon.

And even if not, FFVII fans already have Cloud in the game. SE's cross promo is filled. Whether they choose to saturate that is up to them. But Geno, in my opinion would be just as good a gameplan.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

May I see a link to this oft-referenced trailer? All the ones I'm finding only talk about one character at a time.

This one:

 

[Kuon]

the potential of people boycotting and the fact that dragon quest is already super unpopular in the west after being here for a while would just make another attempt to reintroduce it through smash a waste of a character slot to the majority of people

It's not a waste of a character slot when it's the father of JRPGs and Square Enix's second biggest series of all time

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Double dipping, so far, in Smash, is definitely a foreign thing to all 3rd party characters

Sonic stage-wise, already defies that. And considering that adding another stage from Final Fantasy VII is one of the main arguments people use against Sephiroth, that's toasted.

went over this yesterday. Ryu was the worst received third party character in Smash 4 despite literally being THE signature fighting game character. If you look at the views on Youtube, it goes Megaman, Bayonetta, Cloud, Pacman, and Ryu and it's almost always in this order no matter what Nintendo Headquarter page you look at.

Uhhhh. Using views as a metric for reception? This ain't it chief. Got some sales data, critical reception values, like/dislike ratio?

Also, it seems that Cloud scored notably off that metric? Who's to sau Sephorith wouldn't score just as much if not more views, especially if he's shown off at something as big as the flipping Game Awards?

Seriously, views wise, this doesn't take into consideration that some of these folks may have their views bolstered by the events or circumstances by which they showed up at or the surprise factor.

Remember, Ryu and Roy got leaked so they were already expected. Megaman was the first big 3rd party reveal of Smash 4, and wasn't expected. Not to mention, his fans were starved for Megaman content, so if course they flowed there in droves. Pacman being Pacman.... not as exciting so if course lower views. Then comes Cloud. Honestly, Cloud in Smash took the net by storm, in fact, his wave could arguably have been part of c what got more people watching and aware for Bayonetta's. And if course the finale character who also managed to avoid getting leaked would get the second highest buzz.

Just saying. I'm not sure what views have to do with this when they all score notable numbers. Also, for the record, Ryu was nigh expected, being the crossover king. Did that actually hinder his dlc sales though? And if we're going off that logic, wouldn't Cloud being 3rd place suggest that Sephiroth could have similar success? Especially if Square are trying to play it safe edith the alleged bread winners for dlc?

 

[MajoraMan28]

Don't be an idiot, don't drag the thread into this hole because you feel the need to make yourself look smart via condescending on the internet.

I don't feel the need to make myself feel smart because I really don't care about what other people think of me. I have self-worth and I'm not insecure to the point of needing friends or strangers on a forum to reassure my value. You're the one who seems to be trying to look cool with your edgy comment.
This isn't condescending. It's discussion on DQ and why the controversy regarding the composer makes no sense if they want to consider the potential of DLC sales, even if the possibility of boycott is already founded in falacy..

 

[DaxMasterix]

I'm criticizing the idea of boycotting DQ because of one person in a huge team of people.

Please don't get into business. Like, never. The image of a company is one of the most important things to care of, and it needs just only one "bad"message/action to screw a year of continuing work of the wholee group.
Believe it or not, please don't underestimate the power of socialmedia on late 2018, as an example, and for myself, Sugiyama Koishi is a legend in the VGM industry, but he's still an old conservationist man. And a lot of people were damaged after his controversial statements.

 

[paper roxy]

It's not a waste of a character slot when it's the father of JRPGs and Square Enix's second biggest series of all time

being the father of jrpgs doesnt make it any less of a cinematic menu navigation game, but i guess thats just how i feel about a lot of rpgs

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It might be easier just to not respond to detractors. Detractors aren't tolerated in other threads.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Tell that to Captain Falcon. Smash has never really sold ideas.

Tell that to Lucas and literally all of Fire Emblem.

Additionally, Captain Falcon is already in Smash, so not nearly as requested as Geno.

 

[MyBrokenLuigiAmiibo]

Here's an odd question - if Geno gets in, how do you imagine he'll sound voiced? I've never really thought about this before but I thought it'd be fun to throw it out there. There are lots of characters in Smash like Ness and Lucas who were given voices for the first time despite being from text-only games.

He's a puppet boi so it's weird to think how he could sound. Even if he doesn't talk words or anything, I figure he's gotta make grunts when he hits or gets hit.

What do you think?

 

[Datboigeno]

I would love to know a portion of non-Nintendo gamers that know who Geno is in order for them to be hyped up like the way you're saying.
Geno has the heart of the Smash community and a good portion of the Nintendo fanbase. But PC, Sony and M$ gamers hardly even heard of Geno.

I'm thinking about the TGA announcement. And that event is targeted to gamers in general. You mentioned how the "gaming masses" would be just as hyped for Geno. Gaming masses accounts to all gamers. And honestly, Nintendo is thriving bc they're getting people from other fanbases. Considering DLC is a hype-generator, I don't think you should close doors to mass appeal.. We should remember to not be in our echo chamber when judging stuff like this.

Okay this is just getting ****ing dumb. We keep stating that actual data points towards popularity in polls reflecting popularity of character inclusions (by viewcounts) in Smash. We bring up how many people have publicly wanted Geno in the game for years and voted him in polls. We point out that Sephiroth is way below Geno in Smash popularity. We bring up that popularity of characters within the Smash community through polls is almost a 1:1 correlation with popularity through views. And after all of that you choose to discount it by saying "lol do people even know Geno??? XD". Who the **** cares about fans who own non-Nintendo consoles in this situation? Those people aren't going to go out and buy a switch for ****ing Sephiroth. Sorry, that's just not realistic and is based on jack **** for evidence. Mass appeal does not equal popularity or hype within Smash.

I think conversations like this are exactly why people are getting really annoyed and want a dedicated SE thread outside of the Geno support thread. You can spend an entire morning pointing out the objective evidence that Geno is popular within the Smash community and that characters with mainstream popularity don't correlate to popularity/hype for Smash, and still be met with "Geno is a literally who let's talk about this hypothetical mob of epic gamers that love FF7 and would go out and buy a Switch tomorrow if Sephiroth was announced!". This **** is getting really old and at a certain point it's not even a productive conversation anymore if people are unwilling to accept the facts they're presented with and just loop around to the same **** we've discussed before.

 

[paper roxy]

Here's an odd question - if Geno gets in, how do you imagine he'll sound voiced? I've never really thought about this before but I thought it'd be fun to throw it out there. There are lots of characters in Smash like Ness and Lucas who were given voices for the first time despite being from text-only games.

He's a puppet boi so it's weird to think how he could sound. Even if he doesn't talk words or anything, I figure he's gotta make grunts when he hits or gets hit.

What do you think?

in the geno discord i brought up 2 ideas: kirbopher or just wood clanking together noises (kinda like the dry bones in nsmb but less xylophoney)

 

[MajoraMan28]

Please don't get into business. Like, never. The image of a company is one of the most important things to care of, and it needs just only one "bad"message/action to screw a year of continuing work of the wholee group.
Believe it or not, please don't underestimate the power of socialmedia on late 2018, as an example, and for myself, Sugiyama Koishi is a legend in the VGM industry, but he's still an old conservationist man. And a lot of people were damaged after his controversial statements.

Lmfao
Did you read my comment?
He doesn't represent S-E nor Nintendo nor DQ. A high official of the company making an official statement is way different from a hired man who isn't even an employee from either company be the cause of an uproar for a product that has 99,9% of the content not made by him. The companies in question also don't represent his views nor did they ever endorse it. You're not making a fair analysis. A company rep is different from a composer that is hired by numerous different companies. Go make a riot to NHK, not S-E or Nintendo.

Okay this is just getting ****ing dumb. We keep stating that actual data points towards popularity in polls reflecting popularity of character inclusions (by viewcounts) in Smash. We bring up how many people have publicly wanted Geno in the game for years and voted him in polls. We point out that Sephiroth is way below Geno in Smash popularity. We bring up that popularity of characters within the Smash community through polls is almost a 1:1 correlation with popularity through views. And after all of that you choose to discount it by saying "lol do people even know Geno??? XD". Who the **** cares about fans who own non-Nintendo consoles in this situation? Those people aren't going to go out and buy a switch for ****ing Sephiroth. Sorry, that's just not realistic and is based on jack **** for evidence. Mass appeal does not equal popularity or hype within Smash.

I think conversations like this are exactly why people are getting really annoyed and want a dedicated SE thread outside of the Geno support thread. You can spend an entire morning pointing out the objective evidence that Geno is popular within the Smash community and that characters with mainstream popularity don't correlate to popularity/hype for Smash, and still be met with "Geno is a literally who let's talk about this hypothetical mob of epic gamers that love FF7 and would go out and buy a Switch tomorrow if Sephiroth was announced!". This **** is getting really old and at a certain point it's not even a productive conversation anymore if people are unwilling to accept the facts they're presented with and just loop around to the same **** we've discussed before.

DUDE. I'm talking about freaking TGA, not in general, ffs. XD
If the S-E rep is revealed in a direct, then yeah, Geno is way more likely. If the rep was unveiled at TGA, it's the other way around. It's just that simple statement. Nobody ever questioned Geno's popularity in the Smash community...
You're way oversensitive regarding this topic. Calm down m8.

 

[-Coco-]

Please don't get into business. Like, never. The image of a company is one of the most important things to care of, and it needs just only one "bad"message/action to screw a year of continuing work of the wholee group.
Believe it or not, please don't underestimate the power of socialmedia on late 2018, as an example, and for myself, Sugiyama Koishi is a legend in the VGM industry, but he's still an old conservationist man. And a lot of people were damaged after his controversial statements.

Just because it's a thing doesn't mean it should be. Toriyama and Yuji Horii did nothing wrong and you're actively harming them when you boycott a game because of something they had nothing to do with. SE already denounced Sugiyama's comments for the record.

being the father of jrpgs doesnt make it any less of a cinematic menu navigation game, but i guess thats just how i feel about a lot of rpgs

Geno wouldn't have existed without DQ my guy.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Here's an odd question - if Geno gets in, how do you imagine he'll sound voiced? I've never really thought about this before but I thought it'd be fun to throw it out there. There are lots of characters in Smash like Ness and Lucas who were given voices for the first time despite being from text-only games.

He's a puppet boi so it's weird to think how he could sound. Even if he doesn't talk words or anything, I figure he's gotta make grunts when he hits or gets hit.

What do you think?

Something like...
Dany Devito.
Heroic and Determined Voice.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Okay this is just getting ****ing dumb. We keep stating that actual data points towards popularity in polls reflecting popularity of character inclusions (by viewcounts) in Smash. We bring up how many people have publicly wanted Geno in the game for years and voted him in polls. We point out that Sephiroth is way below Geno in Smash popularity. We bring up that popularity of characters within the Smash community through polls is almost a 1:1 correlation with popularity through views. And after all of that you choose to discount it by saying "lol do people even know Geno??? XD". Who the **** cares about fans who own non-Nintendo consoles in this situation? Those people aren't going to go out and buy a switch for ****ing Sephiroth. Sorry, that's just not realistic and is based on jack **** for evidence. Mass appeal does not equal popularity or hype within Smash.

I think conversations like this are exactly why people are getting really annoyed and want a dedicated SE thread outside of the Geno support thread. You can spend an entire morning pointing out the objective evidence that Geno is popular within the Smash community and that characters with mainstream popularity don't correlate to popularity/hype for Smash, and still be met with "Geno is a literally who let's talk about this hypothetical mob of epic gamers that love FF7 and would go out and buy a Switch tomorrow if Sephiroth was announced!". This **** is getting really old and at a certain point it's not even a productive conversation anymore if people are unwilling to accept the facts they're presented with and just loop around to the same **** we've discussed before.

I'm grateful that it keeps me from thinking about how on the edge of my seat I am, at least.

 

[ChoccyStar]

Here's an odd question - if Geno gets in, how do you imagine he'll sound voiced? I've never really thought about this before but I thought it'd be fun to throw it out there. There are lots of characters in Smash like Ness and Lucas who were given voices for the first time despite being from text-only games.

He's a puppet boi so it's weird to think how he could sound. Even if he doesn't talk words or anything, I figure he's gotta make grunts when he hits or gets hit.

What do you think?

Just some woody clackety-clack noises please, no voice.

 

[Kuon]

being the father of jrpgs doesnt make it any less of a cinematic menu navigation game, but i guess thats just how i feel about a lot of rpgs

You can call it a cinematic menu game if you want, but that's entirely subjective and doesn't really prove anything

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Tell that to Lucas and literally all of Fire Emblem.

DLC? Fire Emblem is literally promotion of something that exists. That ain't an idea. And Lucas is a pretty bad example if you're suggesting the idea of Mother 3 getting localized being symbolized by his presence in Smash for the last ten years with no result.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Just a reminder that if your opponent won't see reason and your argument is a TL:DR version of yes/no then it's probably not worth pursuing.

 

[Pristine]

Here's an odd question - if Geno gets in, how do you imagine he'll sound voiced? I've never really thought about this before but I thought it'd be fun to throw it out there. There are lots of characters in Smash like Ness and Lucas who were given voices for the first time despite being from text-only games.

He's a puppet boi so it's weird to think how he could sound. Even if he doesn't talk words or anything, I figure he's gotta make grunts when he hits or gets hit.

What do you think?

Probably just make noise like G&W or Megaman, I honestly really wouldn't know lol.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Just because it's a thing doesn't mean it should be. Toriyama and Yuji Horii did nothing wrong and you're actively harming them when you boycott a game because of something they had nothing to do with. SE already denounced Sugiyama's comments for the record.


Geno wouldn't have existed without DQ my guy.

TBH I'm more concerned with Nintendo shelling fat wad's of cash over to that sleazebag in order to have the rights to his ****ty MIDI ass dittys. I wouldn't call it blood money, but it's dirty, shady money all the same. I'd lose a bit of respect for Nintendo.