Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[-Coco-]

TBH I'm more concerned with Nintendo shelling fat wad's of cash over to that sleazebag in order to have the rights to his ****ty MIDI *** dittys. I wouldn't call it blood money, but it's dirty, shady money all the same. I'd lose a bit of respect for Nintendo.

Ehhh I wouldn't call the music ****ty. DQ has always had good music. Trust me if there didn't have to be music I'd say screw it and not give him a dime.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Lmfao
Did you read my comment?
He doesn't represent S-E nor Nintendo nor DQ. If a high official of the company made an official statement is way different from a hired man who isn't even an employee from either company be the cause of an uproar for a product that has 99,9% of the content not made by him. The companies in question also don't represent his views nor did they ever endorse it. You're not making a fair analysis. A company rep is different from a composer that is hired by numerous different companies. Go make a riot to NHK, not S-E or Nintendo.

Just because it's a thing doesn't mean it should be. Toriyama and Yuji Horii did nothing wrong and you're actively harming them when you boycott a game because of something they had nothing to do with. SE already denounced Sugiyama's comments for the record.


Geno wouldn't have existed without DQ my guy.

It's not against SE, It's not against the whole company, but Sugiyama is part of it and his statements are related to it no matter what.
Buying it or not it doesn't support his statements, but the thing was said and a lot of people acted according to it. Thanks god SE know that and denounced it.
As an example, with the Mr G&W problem, people where saying "Really Nintendo?" "Do you Allow this kind of things"?
The Company is the one directly affected by the actions of his employees. And that's why it has to give explanations after.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I don't feel the need to make myself feel smart because I really don't care about what other people think of me. I have self-worth and I'm not insecure to the point of needing friends or strangers on a forum to reassure my value. You're the one who seems to be trying to look cool with your edgy comment.
This isn't condescending. It's discussion on DQ and why the controversy regarding the composer makes no sense if they want to consider the potential of DLC sales, even if the possibility of boycott is already founded in falacy..

I don't think it's fallacious to state that people can choose not to buy a product based on their personal politics. There's a reason the term "vote with your wallet" exists.

 

[HMpoweredMan]

Here's an odd question - if Geno gets in, how do you imagine he'll sound voiced? I've never really thought about this before but I thought it'd be fun to throw it out there. There are lots of characters in Smash like Ness and Lucas who were given voices for the first time despite being from text-only games.

He's a puppet boi so it's weird to think how he could sound. Even if he doesn't talk words or anything, I figure he's gotta make grunts when he hits or gets hit.

What do you think?

He'll sound like X from Megaman X 4. 'TIEM TO GET SRS'

 

[Kuon]

Okay this is just getting ****ing dumb. We keep stating that actual data points towards popularity in polls reflecting popularity of character inclusions (by viewcounts) in Smash. We bring up how many people have publicly wanted Geno in the game for years and voted him in polls. We point out that Sephiroth is way below Geno in Smash popularity. We bring up that popularity of characters within the Smash community through polls is almost a 1:1 correlation with popularity through views. And after all of that you choose to discount it by saying "lol do people even know Geno??? XD". Who the **** cares about fans who own non-Nintendo consoles in this situation? Those people aren't going to go out and buy a switch for ****ing Sephiroth. Sorry, that's just not realistic and is based on jack **** for evidence. Mass appeal does not equal popularity or hype within Smash.

I think conversations like this are exactly why people are getting really annoyed and want a dedicated SE thread outside of the Geno support thread. You can spend an entire morning pointing out the objective evidence that Geno is popular within the Smash community and that characters with mainstream popularity don't correlate to popularity/hype for Smash, and still be met with "Geno is a literally who let's talk about this hypothetical mob of epic gamers that love FF7 and would go out and buy a Switch tomorrow if Sephiroth was announced!". This **** is getting really old and at a certain point it's not even a productive conversation anymore if people are unwilling to accept the facts they're presented with and just loop around to the same **** we've discussed before.

To be fair, I've been playing every Smash game since Smash 64 came out and I've never heard Geno's name until after E3 when this speculation cycle really kicked in. I had heard of SMRPG and recognized the character, but had never heard his name before.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Sonic stage-wise, already defies that. And considering that adding another stage from Final Fantasy VII is one of the main arguments people use against Sephiroth, that's toasted.

Uhhhh. Using views as a metric for reception? This ain't it chief. Got some sales data, critical reception values, like/dislike ratio?

Also, it seems that Cloud scored notably off that metric? Who's to sau Sephorith wouldn't score just as much if not more views, especially if he's shown off at something as big as the flipping Game Awards?

Seriously, views wise, this doesn't take into consideration that some of these folks may have their views bolstered by the events or circumstances by which they showed up at or the surprise factor.

Remember, Ryu and Roy got leaked so they were already expected. Megaman was the first big 3rd party reveal of Smash 4, and wasn't expected. Not to mention, his fans were starved for Megaman content, so if course they flowed there in droves. Pacman being Pacman.... not as exciting so if course lower views. Then comes Cloud. Honestly, Cloud in Smash took the net by storm, in fact, his wave could arguably have been part of c what got more people watching and aware for Bayonetta's. And if course the finale character who also managed to avoid getting leaked would get the second highest buzz.

Just saying. I'm not sure what views have to do with this when they all score notable numbers. Also, for the record, Ryu was nigh expected, being the crossover king. Did that actually hinder his dlc sales though? And if we're going off that logic, wouldn't Cloud being 3rd place suggest that Sephiroth could have similar success? Especially if Square are trying to play it safe edith the alleged bread winners for dlc?

Sonic stage wise. Not character stage and music wise tho. And additionally, if we're suspecting SE is stingy, we can already infer that Sega is much less so given how many more Sonic music tracks there are. This in no way is points in Sephiroth's favor about 3rd party fighter double dipping. ALSO, iirc, Sonic had a specific stage in Brawl, and a specific stage in Wii U, and Sakurai, wanting to bring everything back from past games, brought back both stages. This is only a circumstantial occurrence.

Okay, but criticizing using views as a metric for reception, and then claiming Cloud took the net by storm with no data other than (I'm assuming, since, again, no data) his views?? That ain't it chief.

Views often indicate popularity. Thats why youtubers with millions of views get money. This means somethings been watched, which could mean even way long after the video has been uploaded. I'm saying all those obvious things to say that i think it's understandable to use views as guessing point to see how well each character was recieved or make a guestimate to how well a DLC character sold. Bayonetta's buzz was all likely her own. Remember her game was well recieved and she placed #1 on ballots and was a complete surprise pick.

Cloud being 3rd doesn't suggest Sephiroth would have similar success. Cloud is the hero and protagonist of his game, and an icon for the franchise itself. Sephiroth, while iconic, sadly is not. There's no indication Square's trying to play it safe.

DLC? Fire Emblem is literally promotion of something that exists. That ain't an idea. And Lucas is a pretty bad example if you're suggesting the idea of Mother 3 getting localized being symbolized by his presence in Smash for the last ten years with no result.

But...Super Mario RPG...exists...? And we can't use FF7 rerelease as an excuse for Sephiroth's inclusion if we don't include the SNES Classic being released only what last year? The year before? So it's not like SMRPG is a completely dead franchise like F-Zero. Couple that with the fact that Captain Falcon is already in Smash. So...yeah. Still an idea bruh.

Regardless of the result, you cannot say Smash doesn't sell ideas. Hit (FE) or miss (M3 localization) both have loyal fanbases and for all intents and purposes, the idea WORKED. Fans localized Mother 3, many, MANY people here say it was a beautiful game. Fire Emblem is THRIVING. And with SMRPG being recently released, and it was already successful at conception, with historical influences on future Mario RPG games as well as a cult character, it's a completely different situation than Captain Falcon.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Just because it's a thing doesn't mean it should be. Toriyama and Yuji Horii did nothing wrong and you're actively harming them when you boycott a game because of something they had nothing to do with. SE already denounced Sugiyama's comments for the record.

Toriyama for a start is going to be just fine. Dragonball isn't going to die out anytime soon. And even if you denounce a prominent member of your staff's views, continuing to work with and support them makes it little more than lip service.

Geno wouldn't have existed without DQ my guy.

you could argue that JRPGs wouldn't be financially viable in the west without SMRPG.

 

[Datboigeno]

Lmfao
Did you read my comment?
He doesn't represent S-E nor Nintendo nor DQ. A high official of the company making an official statement is way different from a hired man who isn't even an employee from either company be the cause of an uproar for a product that has 99,9% of the content not made by him. The companies in question also don't represent his views nor did they ever endorse it. You're not making a fair analysis. A company rep is different from a composer that is hired by numerous different companies. Go make a riot to NHK, not S-E or Nintendo.


DUDE. I'm talking about freaking TGA, not in general, ffs. XD
If the S-E rep is revealed in a direct, then yeah, Geno is way more likely. If the rep was unveiled at TGA, it's the other way around. It's just that simple statement. Nobody ever questioned Geno's popularity in the Smash community...
You're way oversensitive regarding this topic. Calm down m8.

Where is this epic assumption coming from that people tuning into the VGAs wouldn't be excited about a fan-favorite character from a highly popular game being added into another popular game? Where is the evidence that someone being shown Sephiroth of all characters at the VGAs is going to make them go out and buy a Switch? Do you think the same people who watch directs aren't going to be watching the VGAs for reveals? You keep talking about logical falacies but keep making these ridiculous almost contrarian arguments. If I come off as oversensitive it's because this is like having a conversation with a brick wall, m8.

 

[MajoraMan28]

It's not against SE, It's not against the whole company, but Sugiyama is part of it and his statements are related to it no matter what.
Buying it or not it doesn't support his statements, but the thing was said and a lot of people acted according to it. Thanks god SE know that and denounced it.
As an example, with the Mr G&W problem, people where saying "Really Nintendo?" "Do you Allow this kind of things"?
The Company is the one directly affected by the actions of his employees. And that's why it has to give explanations after.

That's the thing. He isn't part of S-E. And if they act according to the disproval of his statements, then we hope they act accordingly, and not being a mob attacking innocent parties for something they can't control.
He is a hired composer that is usually associated with NHK. The people should consider making a statement to them, not Nintendo or S-E.

Where is this epic assumption coming from that people tuning into the VGAs wouldn't be excited about a fan-favorite character from a highly popular game being added into another popular game? Where is the evidence that someone being shown Sephiroth of all characters at the VGAs is going to make them go out and buy a Switch? Do you think the same people who watch directs aren't going to be watching the VGAs for reveals? You keep talking about logical falacies but keep making these ridiculous almost contrarian arguments. If I come off as oversensitive it's because this is like having a conversation with a brick wall, m8.

If you really think a non-Nintendo gamer would have the same chance of being excited for a character that has appeared only on a Nintendo system, as much as a non-Nintendo character that has appeared in different platforms, specially outside Nintendo and present in other media, I can't say I can do much more for you m8. It's not a matter of being a brick wall. It's a matter of simply being too bliss and blind by your own viewpoint of the echo chamber you put yourself in.

 

[-Coco-]

Toriyama for a start is going to be just fine. Dragonball isn't going to die out anytime soon. And even if you denounce a prominent member of your staff's views, continuing to work with and support them makes it little more than lip service.

And now you're moving the goalpost. No one on the team would be in legitimate financial trouble. That doesn't detract from my point in the slightest. You're still actively hurting those who had nothing to do with it. You can't get around that.

you could argue that JRPGs wouldn't be financially viable in the west without SMRPG.

Anyone who says this is outright wrong though. Final Fantasy was always successful here, not to mention Mario RPG came at the tail end of an entire generation of RPGs. Mario RPG is my favorite game of all time but let's not exaggerate.

 

[Kuon]

you could argue that JRPGs wouldn't be financially viable in the west without SMRPG.

Actually I think that would go to Pokémon, not SMRPG

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

then claiming Cloud took the net by storm with no data

You don't have to take my word for it. And I didn't base that off of strictly his views. I applied the fact that he was such a slam dunk unexpected surprise as to why he'd gotten the views. Never, did I attribute that to his reception overall. That would've been hypocritical of me.

 

[Looma]

Here's an odd question - if Geno gets in, how do you imagine he'll sound voiced? I've never really thought about this before but I thought it'd be fun to throw it out there. There are lots of characters in Smash like Ness and Lucas who were given voices for the first time despite being from text-only games.

He's a puppet boi so it's weird to think how he could sound. Even if he doesn't talk words or anything, I figure he's gotta make grunts when he hits or gets hit.

What do you think?

If we're talking voices, how do you guys think MvC3 Zero would fit for Geno? I always liked this voice and I can see something like this working reasonably well for him if they went that route.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Final Fantasy kind of....claims the ''We made JRPGS cool in the West." even dweebs and nerds who haven't touched any JPRG have at least touched Final Fantasy 7.

 

[6eyondthegrave]

To be fair, I've been playing every Smash game since Smash 64 came out and I've never heard Geno's name until after E3 when this speculation cycle really kicked in. I had heard of SMRPG and recognized the character, but had never heard his name before.

I've been wanting Geno since Melee and then I found out it was owned by Square. When I saw Snake for Brawl... I immediately believed that Geno would be possible again. And in Smash 4 Sakurai expressed interest, so I've been just dreaming and wishing upon the seven stars that it could come true. But, I'm ready to have my dreams crushed again lol

 

[Datboigeno]

To be fair, I've been playing every Smash game since Smash 64 came out and I've never heard Geno's name until after E3 when this speculation cycle really kicked in. I had heard of SMRPG and recognized the character, but had never heard his name before.

I mean that's anecdotal evidence and might be because you weren't in any sort of internet discussions regarding Smash or looked at any character wishlists because he's been a name people have been throwing around since before Brawl. Sakurai even said he almost included him as far back as Brawl due to fan demand. So obviously people have been discussing him for awhile

 

[-Coco-]

Final Fantasy kind of....claims the ''We made JRPGS cool in the West." even dweebs and nerds who haven't touched any JPRG have at least touched Final Fantasy 7.

Right? As if Final Fantasy didn't have many successful SNES titles here. lol

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I'm not going to lie; If Geno gets in I will take IMMENSE satisfaction in the eating of words that detractors people have had to deal with since the brawl day's. There's even some in this thread right now.

 

[childishgamgeno]

You don't have to take my word for it. And I didn't base that off of strictly his views. I applied the fact that he was such a slam dunk unexpected surprise as to why he'd gotten the views. Never, did I attribute that to his reception overall. That would've been hypocritical of me.

And in terms of duck

Even so, criticizing someone for presenting facts with some data (he presented a view count, and made a connection very similarly to how you did, with views to reception), and then presenting something to counter that with...no data?

 

[Kuon]

I mean that's anecdotal evidence and might be because you weren't in any sort of internet discussions regarding Smash or looked at any character wishlists because he's been a name people have been throwing around since before Brawl. Sakurai even said he almost included him as far back as Brawl due to fan demand. So obviously people have been discussing him for awhile

That is true, but with Nintendo picking the characters and not Sakurai, I'm not sure if Nintendo would choose a character that they clearly don't care about since he hasn't made any major appearances in over 20 years

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

And now you're moving the goalpost. No one on the team would be in legitimate financial trouble. That doesn't detract from my point in the slightest. You're still actively hurting those who had nothing to do with it. You can't get around that.

Let's address it, then. If a company, despite denouncing a person's views as reprehensible, continues to work with them, then that statement means nothing, and if that's the case, and people wish to not support them for it, then they are well within their right to do so. It's unfortunate that others have to get caught up in it, but that's life, mon' ami. You gotta be careful who you throw your cards in with. Don't walk in a bad part of town and act surprised when there's gunfire. A company won't listen until their wallet takes a hit, to quote kill bill "****** with your cash is the only thing you kids seem to understand"

Anyone who says this is outright wrong though. Final Fantasy was always successful here, not to mention Mario RPG came at the tail end of an entire generation of RPGs. Mario RPG is my favorite game of all time but let's not exaggerate.

That's a fair point.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

That is true, but with Nintendo picking the characters and not Sakurai, I'm not sure if Nintendo would choose a character that they clearly don't care about since he hasn't made any major appearances in over 20 years

Which are you; Team Geno or Team Mallow?
Totally doesn't care about Geno. It was only tweeted on their North America Twitter.

 

[Potatu]

I'm not going to lie; If Geno gets in I will take IMMENSE satisfaction in the eating of words that detractors people have had to deal with since the brawl day's. There's even some in this thread right now.

I'm right with you there buddy. You have no idea how i loath some people on GameFAQs. They've successfully silenced Geno fans there, sad really. In my mind, there's nothing wrong with wanting a character in Smash, no matter how popular or relevant your character is. (I hate how people still use relevance as an argument)

 

[DaxMasterix]

That is true, but with Nintendo picking the characters and not Sakurai, I'm not sure if Nintendo would choose a character that they clearly don't care about since he hasn't made any major appearances in over 20 years

Thanks god Sakurai picked up Ridley and K.Rool for base roster then, Nintendo surely was screaming "Nooo! They're not relevant, what are you doing!" during their respective developments.

 

[Kuon]

Final Fantasy kind of....claims the ''We made JRPGS cool in the West." even dweebs and nerds who haven't touched any JPRG have at least touched Final Fantasy 7.

Not everyone that plays JRPGs have played FFVII though

 

[valkiriforce]

That is true, but with Nintendo picking the characters and not Sakurai, I'm not sure if Nintendo would choose a character that they clearly don't care about since he hasn't made any major appearances in over 20 years

Although he did get a Mii Fighter costume in Smash 4, and Geno and Mallow are both present as Spirits in Smash Ultimate. Check any polls/ballots/etc. concerning characters people want in Smash; he's made every list I've seen so far.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I'm right with you there buddy. You have no idea how i loaf some people on GameFAQs. They've successfully silenced Geno fans there, sad really. In my mind, there's nothing wrong with wanting a character in Smash, no matter how popular or relevant your character is. (I hate how people still use relevance as an argument)

I bread them too, my man ;3 (jk)

 

[childishgamgeno]

That is true, but with Nintendo picking the characters and not Sakurai, I'm not sure if Nintendo would choose a character that they clearly don't care about since he hasn't made any major appearances in over 20 years

Countering this (because I like debating, apparently)

There are signs Nintendo might be listening with both JC Rodrigo interviews. As has been mentioned several times, it's alleged that Geno placed high on the ballot and also alleged that NoJ has that list. Putting two and two together, this could mean there's a chance Geno was picked. If Nintendo wants to listen to their fans, I think Geno is a strong choice.

Not everyone that plays JRPGs have played FFVII though

Not everyone has played DQ either for that matter. Remember, DQ isn't doing that well in NA.

 

[Potatu]

That is true, but with Nintendo picking the characters and not Sakurai, I'm not sure if Nintendo would choose a character that they clearly don't care about since he hasn't made any major appearances in over 20 years

K Rool completely destroys the relevance argument.

 

[Kuon]

Which are you; Team Geno or Team Mallow?
Totally doesn't care about Geno. It was only tweeted on their North America Twitter.

That was one tweet though. You can't compare that to the dozens of Mario games and JRPGs that Geno could have made appearances on but didn't, for who knows what reason

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Not everyone that plays JRPGs have played FFVII though

Maybe, but more people in the west have played Final Fantasy and Pokemon than they've ever played a lot of the other JRPG series.

Which is the number one reason I'm still saying Dragon Quest ain't getting into Smash.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

That was one tweet though. You can't compare that to the dozens of Mario games and JRPGs that Geno could have made appearances on but didn't, for who knows what reason

I mean he totally COULD have... if they had the rights. But then we're just moving into alternate universe territory and if hypothetical Nintendo would keep using him.

 

[Datboigeno]

That is true, but with Nintendo picking the characters and not Sakurai, I'm not sure if Nintendo would choose a character that they clearly don't care about since he hasn't made any major appearances in over 20 years

>Mii Costume in Sm4sh
>22nd Anniversary tweet that got 13k likes
>SMRPG on the SNES Classic
>a character that they clearly don't care about

This ain't it, chief

 

[-Coco-]

Let's address it, then. If a company, despite denouncing a person's views as reprehensible, continues to work with them, then that statement means nothing, and if that's the case, and people wish to not support them for it, then they are well within their right to do so. It's unfortunate that others have to get caught up in it, but that's life, mon' ami. You gotta be careful who you throw your cards in with. Don't walk in a bad part of town and act surprised when there's gunfire. A company won't listen until their wallet takes a hit, to quote kill bill "****** with your cash is the only thing you kids seem to understand"

I never said others don't have a right to do that though. You still can't get around the fact that you're harming an entire team of people when they did nothing wrong. You're free to do it but you're still doing it. lol

 

[Kuon]

Although he did get a Mii Fighter costume in Smash 4, and Geno and Mallow are both present as Spirits in Smash Ultimate. Check any polls/ballots/etc. concerning characters people want in Smash; he's made every list I've seen so far.

Then why was he not in the base game? Why was he limited to a spirit and Mii costume?

 

[DaxMasterix]

That was one tweet though. You can't compare that to the dozens of Mario games and JRPGs that Geno could have made appearances on but didn't, for who knows what reason

Sorry but..

Spoiler

Look at this duuuude..

Then why was he not in the base game? Why was he limited to a spirit and Mii costume?

Spoiler

Oh nononono

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

>Mii Costume in Sm4sh
>22nd Anniversary tweet that got 13k likes
>SMRPG on the SNES Classic
>a character that they clearly don't care about

This ain't it, chief

I will add; A "22nd Anniversary" is a pretty weird thing to celebrate for a supposedly irrelevant character. You at least think they'd wait for 25 or somthing.... a more notable milestone.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Then why was he not in the base game? Why was he limited to a spirit and Mii costume?

Simple.

Money.

Square wanted more cut of the profit.

 

[coolcat12347]

So not arguing, but can I bring up a SMRPG stage idea?


A traveling stage.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Jeez, why is this thread always so heated? I mean, I know why but yikes...

I'm right with you there buddy. You have no idea how i resent some people on GameFAQs. They've successfully silenced Geno fans there, sad really. In my mind, there's nothing wrong with wanting a character in Smash, no matter how popular or relevant your character is. (I hate how people still use relevance as an argument)

Mentioning Ninten there is basically a death sentence. I'm not sure what's up with the culture over there, but maaaan, they love ****ing on people with a slightly different opinion.