Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[AugustusB]

So something to consider if I read this right from Fatmanonice info from earlier, Square themselves said no to a character. The creator(s) of said character rallied to have them reconsider, yet Square did not budge on their decision.

Thinking on this a bit and knowing how Square works from A.G.L. putting together a thesis on how Square does DLC...I truly don't know.

If they were to promote something, then Dragon Quest or Sora is guaranteed. However, they said no to a character that caused a bit of an uproar?

Lets say they went against their own formula. These characters do not promote anything, but could make us money and maybe this can show that we are patching things up with Nintendo to go with either of these characters. This is where Geno, Crono and Sephiroth come in. However one could argue Sephiroth promotes FF7 Remake or FF7 coming to the Switch. Doesn't seem likely to me.

What do people think? To me, it makes sense to go against their own formula that may have caused an uproar within themselves. Thus negotiations were difficult.

EDIT: Of course if this is all true. But I do trust the people in the know here.

 

[owjies]

So something to consider if I read this right from Fatmanonice info from earlier, Square themselves said no to a character. The creator(s) of said character rallied to have them reconsider, yet Square did not budge on their decision.

Thinking on this a bit and knowing how Square works from A.G.L. putting together a thesis on how Square does DLC...I truly don't know.

If they were to promote something, then Dragon Quest or Sora is guaranteed. However, they said no to a character that caused a bit of an uproar?

Lets say they went against their own formula. These characters do not promote anything, but could make us money and maybe this can show that we are patching things up with Nintendo to go with either of these characters. This is where Geno, Crono and Sephiroth come in. However one could argue Sephiroth promotes FF7 Remake or FF7 coming to the Switch. Doesn't seem likely to me.

What do people think? To me, it makes sense to go against their own formula that may have caused an uproar within themselves. Thus negotiations were difficult.

EDIT: Of course if this is all true. But I do trust the people in the know here.

I'm still thinking there might be a mystery game in the works and that could be the missing puzzle piece. If there's a Chrono Trigger remaster coming similar to FF7 then all of a sudden Crono makes sense. The same could be said if there's a new SMRPG game with Geno.

 

[MajoraMan28]

So something to consider if I read this right from Fatmanonice info from earlier, Square themselves said no to a character. The creator(s) of said character rallied to have them reconsider, yet Square did not budge on their decision.

Thinking on this a bit and knowing how Square works from A.G.L. putting together a thesis on how Square does DLC...I truly don't know.

If they were to promote something, then Dragon Quest or Sora is guaranteed. However, they said no to a character that caused a bit of an uproar?

Lets say they went against their own formula. These characters do not promote anything, but could make us money and maybe this can show that we are patching things up with Nintendo to go with either of these characters. This is where Geno, Crono and Sephiroth come in. However one could argue Sephiroth promotes FF7 Remake or FF7 coming to the Switch. Doesn't seem likely to me.

What do people think? To me, it makes sense to go against their own formula that may have caused an uproar within themselves. Thus negotiations were difficult.

I honestly think Seph would be used to promote the FFVII launch on the Switch (probably coming on the day the FF games launch), and would clinch the fact that FFVII Remake is definitely considered and would most likely end up in Nintendo's console, whether it will be the Switch or the next one.
I think the character in question that would cause such an uproar would be Sora. S-E would have to go to Disney to arrange something that would be legally complicated, for both S-E and Nintendo themselves, to even make this possible. I think S-E wants to focus on other franchises, given that KHIII is taking 100% of their PR time for the last few months. Everyone is waiting for KHIII to launch so S-E gets to talk about the Remake and other future titles. I think KH is more stuff that would be needless trouble for everyone.

 

[EarlTamm]

So something to consider if I read this right from Fatmanonice info from earlier, Square themselves said no to a character. The creator(s) of said character rallied to have them reconsider, yet Square did not budge on their decision.

Thinking on this a bit and knowing how Square works from A.G.L. putting together a thesis on how Square does DLC...I truly don't know.

If they were to promote something, then Dragon Quest or Sora is guaranteed. However, they said no to a character that caused a bit of an uproar?

Lets say they went against their own formula. These characters do not promote anything, but could make us money and maybe this can show that we are patching things up with Nintendo to go with either of these characters. This is where Geno, Crono and Sephiroth come in. However one could argue Sephiroth promotes FF7 Remake or FF7 coming to the Switch. Doesn't seem likely to me.

What do people think? To me, it makes sense to go against their own formula that may have caused an uproar within themselves. Thus negotiations were difficult.

EDIT: Of course if this is all true. But I do trust the people in the know here.

I just know that the character that was rejected was certainly not Geno, as the SMRPG creators don't work at Square anymore.

 

[AugustusB]

I'm still thinking there might be a mystery game in the works and that could be the missing puzzle piece. If there's a Chrono Trigger remaster coming similar to FF7 then all of a sudden Crono makes sense. The same could be said if there's a new SMRPG game with Geno.

I absolutely agree with this. Taking this into consideration, it would be a bold move for them to promote something that isn't even out yet.

I honestly think Seph would be used to promote the FFVII launch on the Switch (probably coming on the day the FF games launch), and would clinch the fact that FFVII Remake is definitely considered and would most likely end up in Nintendo's console, whether it will be the Switch or the next one.
I think the character in question that would cause such an uproar would be Sora. S-E would have to go to Disney to arrange something that would be legally complicated, for both S-E and Nintendo themselves, to even make this possible. I think S-E wants to focus on other franchises, given that KHIII is taking 100% of their PR time for the last few months. Everyone is waiting for KHIII to launch so S-E gets to talk about the Remake and other future titles. I think KH is more stuff that would be needless trouble for everyone.

Honestly this makes sense for not only KH3 but for DQ as well if we wanted to put these two together.

I just know that the character that was rejected was certainly not Geno, as the SMRPG creators don't work at Square anymore.

I forgot about this! Big Hmmmmmmm

 

[EarlTamm]

I'm still thinking there might be a mystery game in the works and that could be the missing puzzle piece. If there's a Chrono Trigger remaster coming similar to FF7 then all of a sudden Crono makes sense. The same could be said if there's a new SMRPG game with Geno.

If I recall, wasn't there an article about how the Octopath team planned on remaking games for the Switch?

 

[owjies]

If I recall, wasn't there an article about how the Octopath team planned on remaking games for the Switch?

Yeah, there's all sorts of hints out there. For example, we still don't know what "Secret Mission Start" means from the Chrono Trigger director.

 

[AugustusB]

Yeah, there's all sorts of hints out there. For example, we still don't know what "Secret Mission Start" means from the Chrono Trigger director.

There are a lot of chips on the table. Now who has the winning hand?

I forget, is Yasunori Mitsuda helping out with Smash this time around? If so then him and Yoko Shimimura both helping with Smash music would be awesome.

EDIT: Lol owjies and my icon look like they are in deep conversation or thinking really hard.

 

[DaxMasterix]

I know it's Geno but I'm scared.

It's possible that Sakurai (Or Nintendo) wanted to ask for Geno to Square Enix, they said "No, I choose it!", Nintendo Declined and then SE said "Okay, then I'm out of this project" like a child.
Nintendo, due to the "Everyone is here" made a Desicion on accepting Sephiroth along with Cloud. Nintendo still asked for Geno, and SE allowed them to use the renders just because they were pushing it so much.
It's a timeline where I don't want to live for, but it's possible.

If Nintendo is competent enough, maybe they asked for Geno and offered a lot of Money (or % of the profit) to get it, declining any other possible character asked by SE, using some Business Speech, for sure.

5 Days until VGA.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

If we don't get Geno I will pull the planet apart with my own bare hands.

 

[Deleted member]

If we don't get Geno I will pull the planet apart with my own bare hands.

If we don't get Geno I will fill up the Square Enix headquarters with SNES Classics and copies of Super Mario RPG

 

[A.G.L.]

So something to consider if I read this right from Fatmanonice info from earlier, Square themselves said no to a character. The creator(s) of said character rallied to have them reconsider, yet Square did not budge on their decision.

Thinking on this a bit and knowing how Square works from A.G.L. putting together a thesis on how Square does DLC...I truly don't know.

If they were to promote something, then Dragon Quest or Sora is guaranteed. However, they said no to a character that caused a bit of an uproar?

Lets say they went against their own formula. These characters do not promote anything, but could make us money and maybe this can show that we are patching things up with Nintendo to go with either of these characters. This is where Geno, Crono and Sephiroth come in. However one could argue Sephiroth promotes FF7 Remake or FF7 coming to the Switch. Doesn't seem likely to me.

What do people think? To me, it makes sense to go against their own formula that may have caused an uproar within themselves. Thus negotiations were difficult.

EDIT: Of course if this is all true. But I do trust the people in the know here.

So if I am to understand correctly someone obtained information that Square said no to a character? The creators then rallied, but Square refused to change their decision. Well I will first say these types of things have happened in other companies, I know Tales of Symphonia creator has been pushing for Llloyd to be in Smash, despite Bandai Namco will likely go with Heihachi

This being said I do find it odd someone knows that much detail as Square is notorious for not letting people leak business decisions. Now assuming this is true, I can see this playing two ways. First I will say I do not think the characters in question are Geno or Sora. Its very unlikely Disney became involved and Square said no to them. And the creator of KH is Tetsuya Nomura, so you can definitely bet if Nomura and Disney want Sora in Smash they will push for him very hard. On to Geno, as EarlTamm stated the creators of Super Mario RPG no longer work for Square so its not them.

If this information is true it is most likely Crono or a DQ character. I can see why Square would be stubborn with both of these characters and franchises. Lets start with Crono, this character has not had a game in years. His game series equally has not had a game in years. As we have seen in Square's past business decisions regarding DLC. They put characters that are still relevant, represent the company and who can help them cross promote. While Crono does represent the company, he falls short on the other two requirements. I can see why Square would say no to this character as they love cross promotion and Crono couldn't give them that.

Now lets discuss the elephant in the room, that is Dragon Quest. In many ways this seems to be the most likely and least likely to get the spot of 2nd Square rep. It does have things going for it in that it matches all requirements Square has for DLC. Also it has DQ11 and DQ Builders2 coming to the Switch, that definitely helps its chances. That being said lets look at its downsides, the most popular character is a regular enemy in recent two games. The protagonist's of the series are not as popular as a regular enemy and are so similar they are practically interchangeable. The series is not globally popular with DQ11 getting 75% of sales from Japan. That means its possible the U.S. could have only contributed 5 or 10% percent of sales, thats a huge dip in popularity. The composer Koichi Sugiyama is very well known for not wanting to lend out his music, which he owns. Also the composer has found himself in a lot of hot water, due to his recent political statements. All of this being said, its possible Square looked at the odds and chose to say no. If they did go with a DQ rep, they are in for an uphill battle. To put a character in, that isn't even globally popular. Square's patterns in DLC are safe picks not radical picks, they choose characters that are globally known. So I can very much see Square choosing not to go with DQ and then the creators of DQ bargaining with them to reconsider. Hope this information helps you AugustusB

 

[AugustusB]

So if I am to understand correctly someone obtained information that Square said no to a character? The creators then rallied, but Square refused to change their decision. Well I will first say these types of things have happened in other companies, I know Tales of Symphonia creator has been pushing for Llloyd to be in Smash, despite Bandai Namco will likely go with Heihachi

This being said I do find it odd someone knows that much detail as Square is notorious for not letting people leak business decisions. Now assuming this is true, I can see this playing two ways. First I will say I do not think the characters in question are Geno or Sora. Its very unlikely Disney became involved and Square said no to them. And the creator of KH is Tetsuya Nomura, so you can definitely bet if Nomura and Disney want Sora in Smash they will push for him very hard. On to Geno, as EarlTamm stated the creators of Super Mario RPG no longer work for Square so its not them.

If this information is true it is most likely Crono or a DQ character. I can see why Square would be stubborn with both of these characters and franchises. Lets start with Crono, this character has not had a game in years. His game series equally has not had a game in years. As we have seen in Square's past business decisions regarding DLC. They put characters that are still relevant, represent the company and who can help them cross promote. While Crono does represent the company, he falls short on the other two requirements. I can see why Square would say no to this character as they love cross promotion and Crono couldn't give them that.

Now lets discuss the elephant in the room, that is Dragon Quest. In many ways this seems to be the most likely and least likely to get the spot of 2nd Square rep. It does have things going for it in that it matches all requirements Square has for DLC. Also it has DQ11 and DQ Builders2 coming to the Switch, that definitely helps its chances. That being said lets look at its downsides, the most popular character is a regular enemy in recent two games. The protagonist's of the series are not as popular as a regular enemy and are so similar they are practically interchangeable. The series is not globally popular with DQ11 getting 75% of sales from Japan. That means its possible the U.S. could have only contributed 5 or 10% percent of sales, thats a huge dip in popularity. The composer Koichi Sugiyama is very well known for not wanting to lend out his music, which he owns. Also the composer has found himself in a lot of hot water, due to his recent political statements. All of this being said, its possible Square looked at the odds and chose to say no. If they did go with a DQ rep, they are in for an uphill battle. To put a character in, that isn't even globally popular. Square's patterns in DLC are safe picks not radical picks, where the characters are not globally known. So I can very much see Square choosing not to go with DQ and then the creators of DQ bargaining with them to reconsider. Hope this helps information helps you AugustusB

Wonderfully said A.G.L. ! Just glad someone knows their business strategy lol . That is what I am thinking as well at this given time.
Always happy to get your input in.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Ooooo, I just caught up to this! Thank you so much for spending a lot of time typing this. I know this was probably all difficult to include and connect the dots, but you got me interested very quick. Thank you for the lecture, and now my thoughts on Geno's inclusion went up! My friend wants to know about Geno's chances, this would be a perfect reference if I show him. As I said before, thank you, childishgamgeno!

Yea I think that’s pretty reasonable. I do feel like another Zelda rep is coming, but all these seem good. Super thorough, great list!

That is some great compiling work! You are an asset to this team, my man.

Makes me feel like I should be doing more...perhaps I can be the guy who hands out kudos when other people do well.


.

Thank you al!! Glad all my work didn't get lost in the shuffle haha.

The narrative we've been getting is that Square Enix has been exceedingly difficult to work with to the point that negotiations almost fell through all together for literally any SE content in the game. A number of people have come forward to tell us that this is more than likely. One person in particular reached out to "us" (referring to people in the know) in private, offering a narrative that was realistic and plausible.

Unless I'm green lit, I can't say specifics but the idea is that there were only ever 3 SE characters on the table. Square turned down one very early. The creators of the character were actually kind of shocked at how easily it was turned down and there was a brief rally between them to get Square to change their minds. Square didn't budge despite the efforts and the matter was dropped. Another character was said to go into negotiations but it's said that they don't know what happened after that point, just that it was seriously considered and the decision surrounding them was kept under wraps.

Yes, I think that's okay to share. The interesting thing about this and other testaments is that, if true, there's only ONE character that's real leak-bait and the rest are just the products of office rumors. It makes sense because doing this would make it that much easier to zone in on leakers instead of having a ton of names floating. If my candidates are Hooper, Scooper, and Dooper and one was turned down, I'd use one of the remaining 2 as leak bait. Like I said, negotiations for a playable character went through but people don't know the end result. If a leaker guesses right, you can catch them. If they guess wrong, that's your leak bait and you got them. Having a ton of names makes it much harder to track so I feel like this approach is much more logical.

Here are the big takeaways:

-Three on the "list" are real, everyone else is heavily implied to be water cooler gossip.

-One was eliminated early and fairly publically. The creators tried to get Square to change their mind. Square squashed this pretty quick and with some speculating that this made Square a Grumpy Gus and made negotiations more difficult all around.

-There were two "finalists" with it only being known that one had serious negotiations. The end result is unknown, even by people deep inside when it comes to information.

-Based on this, if anyone speaks definitively about any of the 7 aside from the one that was turned down:

-If you've been paying attention, the rejected character has been talked about a lot to the point that just about everyone is comfortable saying "it's not them." People don't even butt heads about it aside from the one guy who's increasingly becoming a loose cannon and people are slowly starting to resent because of sheer carelessness.

-Bottom line based on this information: one's real, one's leak bait, and another is just flat out of the running. Of the remaining two, nobody is totally sure who is real and people have been super careful not to make any strong statement regarding this.

The rejected one is out there if you've been following everything but I can't say the final two because everyone that has that info is sweating bullets as if they can feel fingers about to grip around their throat. This is a big reason why even the more reliable insiders have been treating the SE content like a landmine and not made big statements publically. This is Lazer focused and, figuratively, a sniper would know where exactly to aim if someone was dumb enough to be like "oh, it's these two guys!"

So given this information, if its safe to speculate, I think we have to break it down based on the following criteria, given the seven characters we have and we know three of them could potentially be legit. Let's also keep somethings in mind:

1. Vergeben knew about an SE Rep as far back as August or September, before DLC was announced/confirmed. (This could be a case that DLC was in development before they told the public. )
2. PolarPanda's source said they've heard rumors about Geno in Nintendo (NoA presumably, but could like to NoJ as well)
3. The same source also saying NoJ picked DLC and that no one knows whose on the list
4. Nintendo was talking about Geno as early as 2015 (referring to that post from the artist)
5. Vergeben said the rep was not Sora.
6. Certain insiders, highlighting Hitagi, have already been Ninten-ninja'd.
7. According to Fatmanonice, 1 is real. 1 is leak bait, and 1 is eliminated, only 3 are legitimate.

I want to consider these hypotheticals for each chracter:

1. Who was turned down? How early? And since we don't know why, what could the reason be?
2. Why would that shock the creators? Why would the creators fight for that characters inclusion?
   1. Was this character publicly eliminated?

Hypothetically let's go over each. I'd like to start with the names Vergeben heard the most.

Sephiroth
I think to turn down Sephiroth really quickly COULD be shocking purely because he's a villain, arguably the most famous FF one, and he's from Final Fantasy. Although I don't see a reason for Square to turn him down other than because they already have an FF character. Maybe Nintendo didn't want another one to prevent Smash from being a FF party. I think Ken is a special case for Ryu because he's an echo. Maybe Square wanted a different FF character and for the same reason Nintendo may not have wanted that. However, I don't see a reason why his creators would rally for him. They already have a rep in Cloud. Would his inclusion or lack therof REALLY warrant a fight? He could've been shot down to bring in other SE franchises instead as a potential rep, thus they didn't want to budge on that. They may have wanted more exposure. I could see Sephiroth being turned down very early for that reason alone.

However, I don't think he's one of our three simply because I don't see why his creators would put up a fight for him. Or really why that would shock them to the point of fighting for him. He potentially might have made it to negotiations, but I don't see him as the confirmed character.

Erdrick/Luminary
I honestly find it hard to see Square turning down a DQ character. But that's exactly why their rejection could be so shocking. I could see Armor Project and Bird Studio who are partial creators, be shocked that one of the most legendary franchises ever, especially in Japanese history be turned down by Square who is their publisher. How could they not want a DQ rep in Smash?? I could see them, in that shock, try to band together and rally and change Square's mind, until ultimately, the matter was dropped. I cant fathom a good reason why Square would do that. Perhaps, they didn't want to negotiate with IP holders and rightsholders and split profits (that are already being split with Nintendo) up to 5 or 6 ways. (Bird Studio, Armor Project, Square, Nintendo, the composer, etc all the previous reasons we mentioned it would be difficult.) Perhaps Square wanted to keep a good relationship with Nintendo, and wanted for focus on properties that are ONLY Square (like Final Fantasy.) This could also be a reason why Square was hard to deal with when it came to Spirits. Thy may not want to have contacted a lot of rightsholders for IP permission for basic character design PNGs

I see DQ being one of our three.

Crono
I think turning down Crono could do with relevancy? Sakurai may not care, but what about NoJ and Square? You could argue that Crono is in one of the best RPGs ever, but he hasn't had a game since. And his situation is uniquely different from Geno because no one was really rallying for Crono. I don't see his rejection coming as a huge shock (other than, say, pride) because of this, but maybe the creator was trying to introduce a new Crono game through Smash (someone mentioned his tweet here about him working on a Secret Project. Could it be..?) and thus wanted to familiarize new players and new generations with him similar to FE. This could be a reason to fight for the character. Like I stated, perhaps Square wanted to go with someone more recognizeable.

I was gonna say I see him as one of our three, but not really? He's likely cuz Verge has heard him the most, so there could be something going on behind the scenes we don't know about, but he's got as much going for him potential wise as against him. He's kind of in the same boat as Sephiroth to me. I don't see his rejection being incredibly shocking, but I could see why he was fought for.

Sora
I think flat out rejecting Sora would be a huge shock. I can see Yoko Shimomura and Tetsuya Nomura rallying hard for his inclusion in Smash. He's pretty much a perfect fit. He's popular, unique enough, and would have a vastly different move set and several games to build a move set from. However, he's partially (or wholly) owned by Disney and that would mean MONEY. I think Disney would definitely want in on that deal and want a lot of those profits and I think maybe Square did not want to share those. As theorized earlier, perhaps they wanted to stick to franchises created and owned solely by Square. Perhaps Sora wouldn't make sense without Goofy and/or Donald appearing in anyway or any Disney characters or items for that matter. Lets also remember Sora's Keyblade in it's most recognizeable form, has a Mickey keychain. That's copyright RIGHT THERE. You would HAVE to pay Disney for that. Of course you could just use another Keyblade. Also Vergeben publicly stated Sora wasn't in. Fatman said the character that was rejected was done quite publicly. His further posts imply that Sora may be this character: "The rejected one is out there if you've been following".

I see Sora as one of our three, but not in the confirmed, or leakbait. I think he's out of the running. (Which sucked to say because I love Sora.)

Geno
I think rejecting Geno would be shocking to us the fans and probably Nintendo. However I don't see it as THAT much of a shock to Nintendo. It could be shocking because "we secured a Mii Costume last game, why is it difficult to include him now?? and fans really want him in! You're gonna face backlash if you don't let us put him in" but again, he is an old character who hasn't appeared in over 10 years. I could see how Square wouldn't see a lot of interest in letting him in if they have no plans to revitalize the character and continue working with Nintendo for him. I also think his rejection could stem from Square's interest in current, newer franchises. But I could see it being shocking enough, especially to the creators, to want to fight for him. And honestly, they'd be fighting for US. The fans. However, let's also consider that Geno's image rights do appear as a spirit. Like Sakurai said, he has to get permission from all the IP holders in order to make Smash. He secured permission for Geno. This could've been one of the two characters that went to negotiations, with Square deciding on a different fighter but allowing Nintendo image rights for Geno as well. However, I think it would be bad business not to at least take note of Geno's popularity. I see no reason why Square wouldn't at least consider Geno, he is purely a Nintendo-Square property, meaning profits would only be split both ways, like Cloud. He would be the easiest to implement and smoothest to include as all the creators of Geno work for Nintendo. If they rejected Sora for Disney/Money reasons and/or DQ for the same money reasons, those cons are gone with Geno, and they'd make arguably the same amount of money if not more since they wouldn't have to split it, when people buy the DLC. He's incredibly popular with fans out here and in Japan and quite often those popular characters make it in, this could foster a stronger partnership with Nintendo and could lead to the development of new properties/games based on his popularity. Why fight to try to get gamers to attach to existing properties (characters being added as potential ads like DQ and Crono) when you can create something new based on popularity that is already there? It's no less historic if they pick Geno, so Idk, this one is a very tricky one. Geno could go both ways in extremes. Additionally, Geno was quite publicy rejected by Xenother, who then took it back and changed his stance to "not likely" and Verge said "not to take Geno too seriously". Adversely, let's remember PolarPanda's source with the Geno rumors. Could they have been rumors around the time of negotiations with Square? After? That is a very important variable we dont know.

I definitely think Geno is one of our three. Either as leak-bait, or our fighter.

Slime
I mean. I could see Square flat out rejecting Slime. I could see the creators shock because for all the reasons I listed in DQ. And thats why they fight for him.
But...no. I just. I don't see it yall sorry lol.

So I think it's likely that Sora is probably our rejected character. Sora and DQ both have the shock power, but Sora was publicly cut by Verge.

The other two names could be DQ, Geno, Seph or Crono.

My personal thinking is that the three names are Sora, Geno, and Erdrick.


Anyway what yall think?

 

[Sigran101]

Fatmanonice I know the info is sensitive and I won't pry into who the real characters are, but please, if possible, tell me that slime is just water cooler gossip. If you don't respond I'll just take that as you generally can't reveal anything, so don't worry about it if you don't want to.

 

[A.G.L.]

I will say this Geno fans, I really hope you all get your wish. I may not fully agree with Geno's chances due to Square's DLC business patterns. However that aside I can agree the Geno support is something incredible. If Geno does not happen as DLC, I hope at least Square will sell Geno and his properties to Nintendo. Hopefully then Geno can get the love he deserves and have an extremely high chance in the next Smash.

 

[Pillowbro]

this feels like low tier trolling/bait. IF we got any gen 3 it would be Blaziken.

I think it would be Sceptile cause we already have 2 fire starters

 

[Wazygoose]

If I had to fabricate a narrative based on this whole 1 character rejected, 2 characters possible with one of them walking into the thunderdome, I’m guessing this.

NoJ is like, Sora would be awesome. SE flat out says no for whatever reason. The NoJ is like, well we could go for Geno, since Sakurai is doing all this fan service; but it would be cool to have a 3rd party counterpart to Cloud a la Sephiroth just like Simon/Richtor, Ryu/Ken.

They talk to Sakurai and he’s like Geno would be easier to implement and we could get a lot more music, plus it would be nice for all these decades-long fans. Then Nintendo is like, well actually we’re only including one music track with each DLC, you know the one character one stage one song deal, and FFVII is almost as old. And Sakurai is like well Geno would still be better for me.

NoJ has a sudden idea and is like what about Crono, he’s kinda like Goku, my son likes Goku. Sakurai is like well I’m tired of making swordsmen movesets tbh, that’s why I’d rather do Geno than Sephiroth. NoJ decides not to bring up DQ after that, Slime nonwithstanding.

So Geno enters the thunderdome and no one knows what happened...... yet.

 

[EarlTamm]

If I had to fabricate a narrative based on this whole 1 character rejected, 2 characters possible with one of them walking into the thunderdome, I’m guessing this.

NoJ is like, Sora would be awesome. SE flat out says no for whatever reason. The NoJ is like, well we could go for Geno, since Sakurai is doing all this fan service; but it would be cool to have a 3rd party counterpart to Cloud a la Sephiroth just like Simon/Richtor, Ryu/Ken.

They talk to Sakurai and he’s like Geno would be easier to implement and we could get a lot more music, plus it would be nice for all these decades-long fans. Then Nintendo is like, well actually we’re only including one music track with each DLC, you know the one character one stage one song deal, and FFVII is almost as old. And Sakurai is like well Geno would still be better for me.

NoJ has a sudden idea and is like what about Crono, he’s kinda like Goku, my son likes Goku. Sakurai is like well I’m tired of making swordsmen movesets tbh, that’s why I’d rather do Geno than Sephiroth. NoJ decides not to bring up DQ after that, Slime nonwithstanding.

So Geno enters the thunderdome and no one knows what happened...... yet.

Can I just point out how well your icon went with that explanation. I don't think there will be only one music track per DLC though, recent Nintendo DLC often offers a lot more than the bare minimum.

 

[A.G.L.]

Can I just point out how well your icon went with that explanation. I don't think there will be only one music track per DLC though, recent Nintendo DLC often offers a lot more than the bare minimum.

Actually in all of Square's DLC cross promotions they always come with 2-3tracks, with 2 being more prominent. So its not crazy to think Square will give very little music with the next DLC character, even if it is Geno :/.

 

[EarlTamm]

Actually in all of Square's DLC cross promotions they always come with 2-3tracks, with 2 being more prominent. So its not crazy to think Square will give very little music with the next DLC character, even if it is Geno :/.

True, but this is Yoko Shimomura we are talking about. Is her music known for that?

 

[A.G.L.]

True, but this is Yoko Shimomura we are talking about. Is her music known for that?

It doesn't matter if its her as the composer she doesn't own the music unlike Sugiyama from DQ who does. So its not up to her, and lets put it this way. Yoko also composed FF15's music, and Noctis still only came with two music tracks in Tekken 7. Thats unfortunately how Square is with their music, they are incredibly stingy. So if Geno does get in unfortunately that means most likely he will come with only two music tracks.

 

[EarlTamm]

It doesn't matter if its her as the composer she doesn't own the music unlike Sugiyama from DQ who does. So its not up to her, and lets put it this way. Yoko also composed FF15's music, and Noctis still only came with two music tracks in Tekken 7. Thats unfortunately how Square is with their music, they are incredibly stingy. So if Geno does get in unfortunately that means most likely he will come with only two music tracks.

Huh, I thought she owned the SMRPG tracks. It was a different time made in an already legally confused game, so perhaps she was able to hang on to them. Is there any way we can find out definitively?

 

[A.G.L.]

Huh, I thought she owned the SMRPG tracks. It was a different time made in an already legally confused game, so perhaps she was able to hang on to them. Is there any way we can find out definitively?

As far as iv seen Yoko does not own the music from Super Mario RPG, in fact it does not look like she owns the music for KH, SMRPG, or FF15. So if this is the case, she does not have a say in how much music she would want in Smash Bros Ultimate.

Here are examples of how much music Square lends out per cross promotion.

Noctis Tekken 7, two songs.

Behemoth Monster Hunter World, three songs

Ardyn & Bahamut Assassins Creed Origins, no songs

Cloud Smash Bros Wii U, two songs

2B Soul Calibur 6, not released so unknown, but per trailer seems again two songs.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Actually in all of Square's DLC cross promotions they always come with 2-3tracks, with 2 being more prominent. So its not crazy to think Square will give very little music with the next DLC character, even if it is Geno :/.

But Yoko own the SMRPG soundtrack.

Maybe I'm wrong about that , but that mean that simple MP3 rips are very easy to add at least. For remixes , I'm not sure.
Edit: look like I'm wrong lol
However , if it's Sephiroth ... Something tell me they're going to use the OG One Winged Angel and a smashified remix of it. This would be the easiest route (they could pick others tracks , but Sephiroth without One Winged Angel isn't Sephiroth.)

 

[TheCJBrine]

This info has made things interesting.

I think it's between Sephiroth, Crono and Geno.

 

[EarlTamm]

As far as iv seen Yoko does not own the music from Super Mario RPG, in fact it does not look like she owns the music for KH, SMRPG, or FF15. So if this is the case, she does not have a say in how much music she would want in Smash Bros Ultimate.

Here are examples of how much music Square lends out per cross promotion.

Noctis Tekken 7, two songs.

Behemoth Monster Hunter World, three songs

Ardyn & Bahamut Assassins Creed Origins, no songs

Cloud Smash Bros Wii U, two songs

2B Soul Calibur 6, not released so unknown, but per trailer seems again two songs.

4 out of 5 of those examples are FF, and as you said, the other is not released yet. Yoko has been able to make new versions of her old music and put it in collections, so how does that affect all of this?

 

[A.G.L.]

4 out of 5 of those examples are FF, and as you said, the other is not released yet. Yoko has been able to make new versions of her old music and put it in collections, so how does that affect all of this?

Thats because FF is Square's largest game franchise and its most popular. Noctis promoted FF15, Behemoth was promoting FF14 Heavensward. It makes sense Square pushes FF more compared to it other franchises. And again just because a composer made the song, does not mean they own the song. Yoko also made Vega's theme in SF, but that does not mean she owns it.

 

[EarlTamm]

Thats because FF is Square's largest game franchise and its most popular. Noctis promoted FF15, Behemoth was promoting FF14 Heavensward. It makes sense Square pushes FF more compared to it other franchises. And again just because a composer made the song, does not mean they own the song. Yoko also made Vega's theme in SF, but that does not mean she owns it.

True on all accounts, but it would also makes sense that because SMRPG different nature as a collaboration in of itself(As well as the songs in there including elements from the Mario soundtrack, something I doubt Square could get there hands on), the rights till could logically go to Yoko. And for Street Fighter, it's a different company with there own rules, so it's kinda hard to compare, especially with this many factors.

 

[A.G.L.]

True on all accounts, but it would also makes sense that because SMRPG different nature as a collaboration in of itself(As well as the songs in there including elements from the Mario soundtrack, something I doubt Square could get there hands on), the rights till could logically go to Yoko. And for Street Fighter, it's a different company with there own rules, so it's kinda hard to compare, especially with this many factors.

I can see where you are coming from, but I really doubt it. Its true SMRPG does require Nintendo involvement, but its more likely Nintendo will leave the decision making in music to Square. Im not against more music in fact I would love it. I am really annoyed we do not have more Square music. And even more annoyed we do not have Steve Burton as the English VA of Cloud. However this is Square, they are really notorious for not lending out a lot, and only lend out when theres something in it for them. If you see how much music and game mechanics Ubisoft gave to Square for the Assassins creed festival in FF15. Then see how much Square gave to Ubisoft, with not even one piece of music, its very obvious Ubisoft gave way more than Square gave. So just do not be surprised if Geno does get in and he only comes with two songs. Also as far as iv seen Yoko does not own the music to SMRPG so she might just be left as composing the music again, but not having a voice in how much music will be in.

 

[AugustusB]

True on all accounts, but it would also makes sense that because SMRPG different nature as a collaboration in of itself(As well as the songs in there including elements from the Mario soundtrack, something I doubt Square could get there hands on), the rights till could logically go to Yoko. And for Street Fighter, it's a different company with there own rules, so it's kinda hard to compare, especially with this many factors.

This is what makes this a bit different if Geno is the chosen rep. Since ownership is divided between Nintendo and Square, this could be more bang for our buck, so to speak.

Also, would SMRPG be considered as Square music or Nintendo music owned? This is all getting crazy lol.

 

[A.G.L.]

This is what makes this a bit different if Geno is the chosen rep. Since ownership is divided between Nintendo and Square, this could be more bang for our buck, so to speak.

Also, would SMRPG be considered as Square music or Nintendo music owned? This is all getting crazy lol.

Its considered Square owned music, just as Hyrule Warriors music is considered Koei Tecmo owned music.

 

[MajoraMan28]

True on all accounts, but it would also makes sense that because SMRPG different nature as a collaboration in of itself(As well as the songs in there including elements from the Mario soundtrack, something I doubt Square could get there hands on), the rights till could logically go to Yoko. And for Street Fighter, it's a different company with there own rules, so it's kinda hard to compare, especially with this many factors.

It seems NTT Publishing is also part of the original copyright deal with the game's music. The CD is sold by them.
And it seems that S-E are the ones who own the music copyright today

 

[EarlTamm]

I can see where you are coming from, but I really doubt it. Its true SMRPG does require Nintendo involvement, but its more likely Nintendo will leave the decision making in music to Square. Im not against more music in fact I would love it. I am really annoyed we do not have more Square music. And even more annoyed we do not have Steve Burton as the English VA of Cloud. However this is Square, they are really notorious for not lending out a lot, and only lend out when theres something in it for them. If you see how much music and game mechanics Ubisoft gave to Square for the Assassins creed festival in FF15. Then see how much Square gave to Ubisoft, with not even one piece of music, its very obvious Ubisoft gave way more than Square gave. So just do not be surprised if Geno does get in and he only comes with two songs. Also as far as iv seen Yoko does not own the music to SMRPG so she might just be left as composing the music again, but not having a voice in how much music will be in.

It is all just a weird legal grey area for me, considering the nature of SMRPG's creation and substance. I just hope we do get more. Yoko has said herself that SMRPG was a huge turning point in her career, so the idea of her not having that music just bugs me. Anyway, while looking up stuff relating to this topic, I came across this gem again.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, this situation is bonkers.

Music in DQ stays midi out of tradition.

Music in SE guest appearances is midi because no one can have nice things.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Well, this situation is bonkers.

Music in DQ stays midi out of tradition.

Music in SE guest appearances is midi because no one can have nice things.

DQ doesn't stay MIDI because of tradition. They used it in XI bc Sugiyama and S-E were having a debacle on the royalties to be payed if the orchestral soundtrack were to be used. The orchestrated versions of many songs are already available on YT. Top tier quality material, I should say.

 

[HolyKnight]

As long as we get beware the forests mushrooms, im good with only getting 2 or 3 tracks. Shame to know it was cut from brawl. squeenix has been on my last nerve for some time now, and they keep making it worse.

 

[EarlTamm]

As long as we get beware the forests mushrooms, im good with only getting 2 or 3 tracks. Shame to know it was cut from brawl. squeenix has been on my last nerve for some time now, and they keep making it worse.

You know, I have heard mixed things about that song being planned for Brawl. Some say it's true, some say it was false, that sort of thing.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

These developments are certainly interesting. I've said before in the general thread that I don't really care who the Square rep is due to my lack of attachment to the company, yet I can't help but be enamored by the mystery of it all. I stand by my belief that is either Sephiroth or Geno, none of the others sound likely to me.

 

[AugustusB]

So as it stands, no matter who we end up with, the stage should be awesome and the music will be limited.
Unless Sakurai pulls the greatest Hail Mary and talks into more songs.