Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[DaxMasterix]

Geno's a red herring anyways, because, if you take the list at face value, it's him versus 5 anime swordsmen and a liquid Goomba...

Lol'd so hard, The Entire DQ and FF Franchises, against one old wooden boi

 

[Loliko YnT]

I never understood this "Too obscure so won't buy him" argument.

You know , beeing popular is Indeed a plus. But , you can know a character without liking him.

If Geno is a fun character , and is unique and bring a lot of New stuff to the table... Then what is the problem? Yeah , you may not know him.

Did you know the origin of every fighters when you first played a Smash game? Probably not. You can discover characters that you would love tho.

Sure , Geno don't bring as much money as other SE rep , to some exten--

Oh wait , didn't the casual audience complained about the prices of SSB4's DLC? I knew a lot of people that surely did. 5 dollars for a character in Smash , wherehas MK8 , for 12 dollars , offer you 16 tracks , 6 characters , and some sick new vehicules.

Yeah , if Geno is cool looking and fun to play , I see him as more likely to be bought than another hero swordman. And remember... We got THREE FREAKING SWORDMENS DURING SM4SH DLC.
But they were special. Roy is a loved character in the SSB community , Cloud Strife is a big icon , and Corrin was an add.

DQ would be an add... For what reason...? Yeah promoting DQ in the West. But if you don't have a DQ main title on the Switch , how are people supposed to ... You know... Play the games ? Going back to the 3DS for a port of a PS2 game? Learning japanese and importing DQ10? Buying a PS4 for DQ11?

That's just silly. As long as there isn't a worldwide release of DQ11 on the Switch , the "Promote DQ" argument don't mean anything.

And DQ isn't an icon because of a lack of worlwide appeal , and isn't loved in the SMASH community.

Yeah , Japan love DQ.

The last Japan only added was Marth (For Lucas , they thought Mother 3 would get a worldwide release) and it was a Nintendo franchise , and they were almost cut in the America/Europe versions.

So a legal nightmare combined with a generic design as paid DLC? Think about it.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Geno's a red herring anyways, because, if you take the list at face value, it's him versus 5 anime swordsmen and a liquid Goomba...

Geno being a red herring reeks of bias that came from someone and just spread around.

How could you possibly know Geno isn't in unless you 100% know who is instead?

SE employee: yeah so uhhh I have heard Geno but then was told he was intentional misinformation....So I know it's not him. How do I know this? Because it's a DQ character. Which one, you ask? No idea! I've heard like 5 names but I promise those aren't the misleading ones!

Knowing that Geno is a red herring defeats the entire purpose of a red herring and knowing their history I don't think Square is that bad at keeping things secret

 

[valkiriforce]

I don't get why people often place Geno fans separately from Smash fans, as if we weren't also part of this audience people are talking about. If Geno really is so obscure how do you explain how he did so well on the ballots both east and west? Almost every poll I've checked both official and unofficial over the years have placed him very high; there was a Twitter poll where he made the top 5, a reddit poll where he was #3 (the recent one with Banjo and Isaac on top), made it to #3 on the Japanese poll back in 2006, and even made it at #4 on that other more recent Japanese poll someone posted some pages back. He's pretty consistent with fans of Smash wanting him, and that falls in line with the same motivation for bringing characters like Mewtwo, Lucus and Roy back in the first place.

 

[owjies]

Geno being a red herring reeks of bias that came from someone and just spread around.

How could you possibly know Geno isn't in unless you 100% know who is instead?

SE employee: yeah so uhhh I have heard Geno but then was told he was intentional misinformation....So I know it's not him. How do I know this? Because it's a DQ character. Which one, you ask? No idea! I've heard like 5 names but I promise those aren't the misleading ones!

Knowing that Geno is a red herring defeats the entire purpose of a red herring and knowing their history I don't think Square is that bad at keeping things secret

Yeah, I agree. The only thing I can think of is maybe they already knew about the Geno and Mallow spirits and just made an assumption.

 

[HolyKnight]

Geno's a red herring anyways, because, if you take the list at face value, it's him versus 5 anime swordsmen and a liquid Goomba...

Im hoping sakurai stops allowing anime swordsmen. Chrom was what made me not care about this game at all until K Rool and the Grinch Leak

 

[Deleted member]

The obscurity argument is silly when discussing the base roster, but it is not for DLC. Any character can join the Smash base roster and there'd be no problem because they come included with the game alongside everyone else. However, imagine how DLC sales would be for super obscure characters like Game and Watch or someone like Wii Fit Trainer. If Nintendo plans on profiting off DLC, it seems more likely that they are going to choose characters that will grab people's attention and make them want to buy it. Cloud is the perfect example. Yes, Geno is popular, but Smash Bros' audience covers millions of people, people of all ages. If they put Geno up as DLC, not everyone is going to be like "OMG OMG OMG" like they were for other past DLC characters. Outside of Geno fans, the reaction to him as DLC would either be "oh cool they put him in" or "who the hell is that?".

If you look back at Smash 4's DLC, each character is one that would drive sales through the roof. Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy were probably easy to implement and cheaper to put up as DLC because they are already established Smash characters. Ryu and Cloud are gaming icons and obvious picks for DLC in terms of making a lot of money. Corrin was just an advertisement, and Bayonetta supposedly won the ballot.

All in all, I just think it would have made more sense to add Geno for base roster. When making DLC, the goal is money so you have to appeal to a wide audience. Smash 4's DLC characters did that (with the exception of Corrin). Geno may appeal to us, he may appeal to the hardcore Smash community, but that's not the entire audience of the series.

The problem with this argument is that no one wanted Game and Watch, Wii Fit Trainer, or Piranha Plant, that is why they made more sense for the base roster, and they are owned by Nintendo. You know how many people want Geno? That's right. It isn't either going to be "oh that's cool" or "who the hell is that." It's either going to be "OH MY GOD THEY PUT HIM IN" or "WHY DID THEY CHOOSE TO PUT HIM IN?" It will be a huge deal to get him in anyways, and I am sure that Sakurai wanted to add Geno in the base roster, but you have to remember that Square Enix would most likely only agree to him being playable if they are payed for it. It doesn't matter if not many people outside the Smash community don't know him, what matters is that he is very well known and popular in the Smash community, who is the target audience for the DLC! This just makes the "obscurity argument" even more silly, and that isn't a reason for a character to not be DLC

 

[childishgamgeno]

Wouldn't it make more sense to tell people not to expect the character that's going to be in? If you're trying to get ahead of leakers and spread false info around...

Employer: Let's tell them it's Geno, so if they leak it'll be wrong. Don't take that one too seriously. *turns to another guy whose "higher up"* Hey, we're putting Erdrick in.
Other guy: *leaks Erdrick*


I feel like if SE is really as protective as theyre made to be, then wouldn't this way of doing things like...not work?

 

[TBone06]

The problem with this argument is that no one wanted Game and Watch, Wii Fit Trainer, or Piranha Plant, that is why they made more sense for the base roster, and they are owned by Nintendo. You know how many people want Geno? That's right. It isn't either going to be "oh that's cool" or "who the hell is that." It's either going to be "OH MY GOD THEY PUT HIM IN" or "WHY DID THEY CHOOSE TO PUT HIM IN?" It will be a huge deal to get him in anyways, and I am sure that Sakurai wanted to add Geno in the base roster, but you have to remember that Square Enix would most likely only agree to him being playable if they are payed for it. It doesn't matter if not many people outside the Smash community don't know him, what matters is that he is very well known and popular in the Smash community, who is the target audience for the DLC! This just makes the "obscurity argument" even more silly, and that isn't a reason for a character to not be DLC

Also I feel at this point, most people who pay attention to Smash know how popular Geno is. Anyone who goes on any Smash forum isn’t blind to him. Sure people who don’t might not know, but I feel that isn’t a majority of people. In that case, most people didn’t know who a lot of characters were before Smash. I mean I didn’t even really know who Bayonetta was and I was in Smash 4 speculation.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Does it really make sense to have a beloved character like Geno be thrown around intentionally as a red herring?

That's like fake leaking that K. Rool is in in order to hide Tiny Kong. That's just shooting yourself in the foot for when the real news comes out

As someone else said, it's incredibly cynical especially when you add to the equation that the ****ing director himself has publically expressed interest in the character.

Sakurai: "Geno was actually a character I wanted to include as a fighter. He has a gun for an arm, and just seems like he'd fit absolutely perfectly into Smash."

Square: "Lol, we're bout ta roast this ol' boys' nuts right good!"

 

[Potatu]

As someone else said, it's incredibly cynical especially when you add to the equation that the ****ing director himself has publically expressed interest in the character.

Sakurai: "Geno was actually a character I wanted to include as a fighter. He has a gun for an arm, and just seems like he'd fit absolutely perfectly into Smash."

Square: "Lol, we're bout ta roast this ol' boys' nuts right good!"

Square: *proceeds to add Tidus so they can spam his laugh taunt*

 

[Loliko YnT]

The problem with this argument is that no one wanted Game and Watch, Wii Fit Trainer, or Piranha Plant, that is why they made more sense for the base roster, and they are owned by Nintendo. You know how many people want Geno? That's right. It isn't either going to be "oh that's cool" or "who the hell is that." It's either going to be "OH MY GOD THEY PUT HIM IN" or "WHY DID THEY CHOOSE TO PUT HIM IN?" It will be a huge deal to get him in anyways, and I am sure that Sakurai wanted to add Geno in the base roster, but you have to remember that Square Enix would most likely only agree to him being playable if they are payed for it. It doesn't matter if not many people outside the Smash community don't know him, what matters is that he is very well known and popular in the Smash community, who is the target audience for the DLC! This just makes the "obscurity argument" even more silly, and that isn't a reason for a character to not be DLC

People often forget that the one who bought Ultimate , especially this early , must love Nintendo/Smash.

If you love both , then you can love Geno or Super Mario RPG. He's a huge Smash demand and an amazing character from a Mario game.

I think that if SMRPG get more translations (French , spanish , ect ... It's stuck to Japanese and English rn.) , there is no reason for this game to flop if they put it in the Eshop after Geno's reveal.
Because they could immediatly know where he come from... And if they make him look cool in his trailer , people spending 8 dollars for a SNES game on the Switch is more likely than spending 60 dollars on a DQ game.

Also , they put Mewtwo for a reason. He was requested. If Pokémon were so "flavor of the year" character , why wouldn't they put like , a legendary pokemon from the Next movie instead of him?
Also , he was the hardest character to unlock in Melee , 20 hours of Smash match must be played in order to get him. Either you know about the 4 controllers trick to only wait 5 hours , or you just played Melee A LOT , or you didn't unlocked him.

But he was loved by the Smash community , they were the core audience for DLC , so they were like "Mewtwo is coming folks , in case you didn't bought the game because we thought we weren't listening to you.". And he must have been developped from scratch , he didn't appeared in Brawl (only a trophy).

Why couldn't they do something similar with Geno ? Putting him to be like "We're listening to you" + he's a more unique characters than most SE rep combined lol
Nobody knew Corrin , but a lot of people liked him/her because he/she has a chainsaw Sword on fire and was a dragon.
So a star warrior with an hand gun and magic powers ? Yeah , I think kids could like him. Heck , most people here played SMRPG as a child and LOVED Geno.

And from what Iv'e seen , DQ and KH supporters have yet to convince me on why their characters is unique/amazing. Slime look like a blob to me , and the DQ rep at first glance are swordmen.
At least , when you first look at Geno , you can ask yourself "Oh , who's this Guy ? What does he do? An arm canon ? That look sick !".

 

[childishgamgeno]

Anyway, I think Geno''s name even being in the running is a testament to his potential. A "nobody" has beaten out 98% of the rest of FF, freaking SORA, and places higher in Smash Popularity polls than the rest of his competition. Without a doubt. A "literal-who" is more likely than your favorite and I want all Geno detractors to swallow that pill

Yeah , if Geno is cool looking and fun to play , I see him as more likely to be bought than another hero swordman. And remember... We got THREE FREAKING SWORDMENS DURING SM4SH DLC.
But they were special. Roy is a loved character in the SSB community , Cloud Strife is a big icon , and Corrin was an add.

DQ would be an add... For what reason...? Yeah promoting DQ in the West. But if you don't have a DQ main title on the Switch , how are people supposed to ... You know... Play the games ? Going back to the 3DS for a port of a PS2 game? Learning japanese and importing DQ10? Buying a PS4 for DQ11?

That's just silly. As long as there isn't a worldwide release of DQ11 on the Switch , the "Promote DQ" argument don't mean anything.

And DQ isn't an icon because of a lack of worlwide appeal , and isn't loved in the SMASH community.

Yeah , Japan love DQ.

The last Japan only added was Marth (For Lucas , they thought Mother 3 would get a worldwide release) and it was a Nintendo franchise , and they were almost cut in the America/Europe versions.

So a legal nightmare combined with a generic design as paid DLC? Think about it.

And yes DQ11 is getting a Switch port, but theyre going to be...advertising a game that's already out? And like Fatmanonice said...why advertise a game that you don't own? And on top of that a game that's already been out for sometime? Sure DQB2 is coming to the West at some point next year, but you would be advertising for a game that may or may not be out yet. FE made sense because thats a Nintendo property, they arent splitting the profits with anyone.

 

[Potatu]

Anyway, I think Geno''s name even being in the running is a testament to his potential. A "nobody" has beaten out 98% of the rest of FF, freaking SORA, and places higher in Smash Popularity polls than the rest of his competition. Without a doubt. A "literal-who" is more likely than your favorite and I want all Geno detractors to swallow that pill

Tfw SMRPG has more representation than DQ and KH in Smash.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Literally the only thing going for DQ is that it is popular in Japan. No one wants a DQ character in Smash, and Geno is one of the most requested characters for Smash. Geno would undoubtedly make money money than a DQ character. DQ isn't at all popular in any place other than Japan, and the Smash Ultimate DLC targets the people who buy Smash, and that is the Smash community. No one outside the Smash community cares about who gets in, meaning that the character who gets in only matters to the Smash community. So tell me, who would make more money, either an amine swordsman or generic enemy that no one wants, or a puppet with a gun, possessed by a star that can fire beams, blasts, flashes, and whirls? Exactly. People who know about Geno will buy him due to how popular he is in the Smash community, and people who don't know about him will want to find out who he is, meaning that they will buy the SNES Classic and Super Mario RPG, meaning more money for Nintendo, and that isn't to mention the he could advertise a potential remake or sequel of Super Mario RPG, or Super Mario RPG on a potential SNES online

Add in: A DQ character brings nothing new to the roster, hardly anyone who doesn't know about DQ is going to be interested by one or really care where they originated from

Another add in: There was a recent fan poll for which characters people wanted in Smash, and the top 50 characters who made the poll were counted. There wasn't a single DQ character who made top 50. This was after the Square Enix rep rumor, after LeakyPandy and Hitagi "leaked" a DQ character, after the base roster was complete, with numerous characters on the poll being deconfirmed, and no DQ character made the poll.

Don’t discount the possibilities of a seemingly boring character being very unique and bringing something new to the roster. Or the exact opposite happening as well. It will always come down to the execution of the character. And if there is one thing Sakurai generally excels at, it’s making characters appealing and unique. Clones have certainly been added throughout the years as additional roster picks (and people get entirely too salty about them as extra picks). But when he’s given the proper chance, he does a good job. And Geno isn’t inherently unique in comparison to the other characters listed until we see the final versions. He definitely should be, but let's not draw a conclusion based upon characters that don't even exist. We're of course going to accept Geno no matter what, but if he didn't add anything in comparison to the likes of Mega Man and the Mii Gunner then people would definitely dislike him a lot in general.

Slime, for example, would basically necessitate an entirely unique move set, and something like that would probably get the positive vibes that Piranha Plant got for being a creative choice.

Also, third party franchises have often been picked for their relevance in the gaming scene and association with Nintendo. Like it or not, Dragon Quest is absolutely one of those franchises that defines the NES era and RPGs in general. It predated Final Fantasy and has endured to this day. The first four games were on NES, and have sold phenomenally in Japan. Slime appears outside of Dragon Quest pretty frequently, and is an icon of the series, far more important than even Piranha Plant who destroyed the general mook argument people stupidly paraded around.

Sure, not in the States. But so far all the third party characters are from Japan anyway, and Smash is a game developed by a Japanese company with a Japanese Director. Of the 77 Smash characters, three have come outside of Japan. Japan is way too big of a part of Smash to just completely say that Dragon Quest's lack of popularity outside the region is an actual issue. Especially for something as big as Dragon Quest in Japan. Especially when I'm sure Square is constantly looking for an excuse to get a foothold in the States in any way possible.

Of course you're allowed to be disappointed with the character choice that Sakurai makes as always. I just would please beg of this thread to not be hateful towards Dragon Quest as an inclusion or say that it's a nonsensical pick, because I don't think you can legitimately leverage that frustration and anger towards the pick of a big franchise with lots of connections to Nintendo. And potentially other big deals for the future that could have a place in this discussion we could know nothing about.

 

[Deleted member]

Don’t discount the possibilities of a seemingly boring character being very unique and bringing something new to the roster. Or the exact opposite happening as well. It will always come down to the execution of the character. And if there is one thing Sakurai generally excels at, it’s making characters appealing and unique. Clones have certainly been added throughout the years as additional roster picks (and people get entirely too salty about them as extra picks). But when he’s given the proper chance, he does a good job. And Geno isn’t inherently unique in comparison to the other characters listed until we see the final versions. He definitely should be, but let's not draw a conclusion based upon characters that don't even exist. We're of course going to accept Geno no matter what, but if he didn't add anything in comparison to the likes of Mega Man and the Mii Gunner then people would definitely dislike him a lot in general.

Slime, for example, would basically necessitate an entirely unique move set, and something like that would probably get the positive vibes that Piranha Plant got for being a creative choice.

Also, third party franchises have often been picked for their relevance in the gaming scene and association with Nintendo. Like it or not, Dragon Quest is absolutely one of those franchises that defines the NES era and RPGs in general. It predated Final Fantasy and has endured to this day. The first four games were on NES, and have sold phenomenally in Japan. Slime appears outside of Dragon Quest pretty frequently, and is an icon of the series, far more important than even Piranha Plant who destroyed the general mook argument people stupidly paraded around.

Sure, not in the States. But so far all the third party characters are from Japan anyway, and Smash is a game developed by a Japanese company with a Japanese Director. Of the 77 Smash characters, three have come outside of Japan. Japan is way too big of a part of Smash to just completely say that Dragon Quest's lack of popularity outside the region is an actual issue. Especially for something as big as Dragon Quest in Japan. Especially when I'm sure Square is constantly looking for an excuse to get a foothold in the States in any way possible.

Of course you're allowed to be disappointed with the character choice that Sakurai makes as always. I just would please beg of this thread to not be hateful towards Dragon Quest as an inclusion or say that it's a nonsensical pick, because I don't think you can legitimately leverage that frustration and anger towards the pick of a big franchise with lots of connections to Nintendo. And potentially other big deals for the future that could have a place in this discussion we could know nothing about.

This would be Square Enix's 4th attempt to try to introduce DQ to the states. The characters who were from Japan exclusives were owned by Nintendo, and there were no financial risks of including them. DQ is a third party game with no global appeal or global demand, two things that Geno has. Geno isn't your typical gunner anyway, Megaman, Samus, and Mii gunner all use charge shots and missiles, and Geno can do so much more. A DQ character is just either an anime swordsman or a generic enemy, this is the way people outside of Japan are going to look at it. If Square Enix wanted to push DQ as much as possible, they would have more likely included spirits of them, but instead there are spirits of Geno and Mallow. If we add up all of this, how many parties you have to negotiate with to get either another anime swordsman or generic enemy that no one wants, and already having the rights to Geno and looking at how Geno would no doubt bring something unique to the roster, another DQ character would pretty much be a waste.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know what the entire licensing quagmire reminds me of? Marvel.

The same company that lent movie rights to every studio possible to get out of bankrupcy in the 90s. The one that also would up not being able to use the X-Men and Fantastic Four in some adaptations, crossovers and its own feature movie series because of that, to the point that a Lego game made a joke about it. And they have a relation to Disney, too.

Okay, this is getting to the point of absolute insanity... I have discovered that the rights to Erdrick are behind 4 COMPANIES.

-Square Enix has his assets
-Armor Project owns the assets
-Bird Studio/Akira Toriyama owns the actual character
-Newcomer: Heart Beat (a defunct company) still has legal rights to him on paper because they developed the Super Nintendo remake of Dragon Quest III that his most modern design comes from.

https://store.na.square-enix-games....st-iii-the-seeds-of-salvation-bring-arts-hero

Bring Sugiyama into the mix for the music and that brings us to FIVE separate entities that would need to be negotiated with to make Erdrick DLC possible. It doesn't help that both Sugiyama and Toriyama are notoriously hard to work with either. Once again, a friendly reminder that this character's fan demand is surpassed by the most common enemy in Dragon Quest and even Slime doesn't crack top 20 in Japanese polls for wanted Smash characters. Just for the sake of continuing to beat a dead horse with a tire iron, his game hasn't been released on a Nintendo platform since 2011 as a Japanese exclusive and hasn't been released on a Nintendo platform outside Japan since freakin' 2001 with the Gameboy Color and was just in North America.

This character specifically would require working with more companies and entities THAN THE ENTIRE THIRD PARTY LINE UP ALREADY IN THE GAME. If Sora was a hard no despite having international appeal and being decently wanted, I don't see how they could justify this, especially when Sakurai in his latest interview talked about how perfect cooperation is key even for properties Nintendo owns and how every Smash game is basically a miracle because of this. I... Just... *trembles while staring at clenching fists*

...But this here takes the cake. It's the equivalent of having specific members of the X-Men having movie rights owned by multiple companies.

Don’t discount the possibilities of a seemingly boring character being very unique and bringing something new to the roster. Or the exact opposite happening as well. It will always come down to the execution of the character. And if there is one thing Sakurai generally excels at, it’s making characters appealing and unique. Clones have certainly been added throughout the years as additional roster picks (and people get entirely too salty about them as extra picks). But when he’s given the proper chance, he does a good job. And Geno isn’t inherently unique in comparison to the other characters listed until we see the final versions. He definitely should be, but let's not draw a conclusion based upon characters that don't even exist. We're of course going to accept Geno no matter what, but if he didn't add anything in comparison to the likes of Mega Man and the Mii Gunner then people would definitely dislike him a lot in general.

Slime, for example, would basically necessitate an entirely unique move set, and something like that would probably get the positive vibes that Piranha Plant got for being a creative choice.

Also, third party franchises have often been picked for their relevance in the gaming scene and association with Nintendo. Like it or not, Dragon Quest is absolutely one of those franchises that defines the NES era and RPGs in general. It predated Final Fantasy and has endured to this day. The first four games were on NES, and have sold phenomenally in Japan. Slime appears outside of Dragon Quest pretty frequently, and is an icon of the series, far more important than even Piranha Plant who destroyed the general mook argument people stupidly paraded around.

Sure, not in the States. But so far all the third party characters are from Japan anyway, and Smash is a game developed by a Japanese company with a Japanese Director. Of the 77 Smash characters, three have come outside of Japan. Japan is way too big of a part of Smash to just completely say that Dragon Quest's lack of popularity outside the region is an actual issue. Especially for something as big as Dragon Quest in Japan. Especially when I'm sure Square is constantly looking for an excuse to get a foothold in the States in any way possible.

Of course you're allowed to be disappointed with the character choice that Sakurai makes as always. I just would please beg of this thread to not be hateful towards Dragon Quest as an inclusion or say that it's a nonsensical pick, because I don't think you can legitimately leverage that frustration and anger towards the pick of a big franchise with lots of connections to Nintendo. And potentially other big deals for the future that could have a place in this discussion we could know nothing about.

Give this guy an award. On top of all that, having Erdrick or Slime in can potentially open the window to allow other popular characters of the DQ series to get in some day, and they are just as likely to bring something new to the table.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Just wondering... Every third party franchise got a lot of Spirits , Sonic , Megaman , Street Fighter , ect...

So why wouldn't Sakurai asked SE to use artworks of , at least , the FF7 cast? There is no reason that FF shouldn't get more spirits.

My theory is that he did , but since they would gain nothing from it , they refused.

However , they were okay with both Geno and Mallow , despise the Geno costume not even beeing in the game. There is 2 possibilities :

-It's a way to Say "Sorry man , the copyright stuff is too complicated , at least have the artwork of theses two , SMRPG seem to regain in popularity so why not?" or "Sakurai: Can we use them? SE:Yeah whatever , they don't cost a penny and give us nothing anyway."(And since they are stingy as hell...)

-They are foreshadowing a Geno DLC. If Geno wasn't in the game AT ALL , I think a lot of people would have lost faith in him , or don't know who he is. Theses spirits take no effort from SE , they just give 2 PNG. , and that's it.

That mean that , for some reason , they refused to give FF7 artwork , but agreed to give a Geno and Mallow artwork, in the base game.
Either they were paid a lot so Sakurai can still give something to the fans (But in the grand scheme of things , paying a lot of money for 2 PNG. wich would get lost in the sea of spirits seem unecessary. And heck , he didn't get real screen time during the direct , he was there as a token for 1 whole second. Wherehas characters like Shantae did get screen time.), but even , I think he would have tried to get the rights for the costume... It was already made , he have the rights for them , but SE say no , or he doesn't ask for it?

Except if SE want to make it paid DLC again (And we don't know if Mii costumes will ever be a DLC , let alone separated from the fighters pass) , then that means they see the potential in Geno as DLC , and agreed to AT LEAST , give them theses 2 PNG.

Also , Geno is a legendary spirit... At first glance , does he look as powerful as , Primo-Groudon? Also , he doesn't have a pre-evolution or a evolution.

He's a rare spirit. He's even less likely to be found , heck , who know if he's in WoL or if his battle is obligatory ! He must be near the end , and not everyone will beat WoL.

It's like that both Geno and Mallow are here , reading the journal , with a coffee and a glass of orange juice , in the middle of a 5 stars restaurant with every other fighters eating a lot of quality food. They can do it... But why? They stuck out so much!

 

[Room100]

I absolutely support Geno and believe Sakurai would definitely try to get him, it's more a matter of fighting Square for sure. Good luck guys!

 

[EarlTamm]

Funny, with all of this talk of Square trying to get DQ over to the states, that remind me how SMRPG was Squares attempt to get RPG's over to the states.

 

[Potatu]

I absolutely support Geno and believe Sakurai would definitely try to get him, it's more a matter of fighting Square for sure. Good luck guys!

Thank you for your support, it's appreciated!

 

[childishgamgeno]

And Geno isn’t inherently unique in comparison to the other characters listed until we see the final versions. He definitely should be, but let's not draw a conclusion based upon characters that don't even exist. We're of course going to accept Geno no matter what, but if he didn't add anything in comparison to the likes of Mega Man and the Mii Gunner then people would definitely dislike him a lot in general.

Slime, for example, would basically necessitate an entirely unique move set, and something like that would probably get the positive vibes that Piranha Plant got for being a creative choice.

Also, third party franchises have often been picked for their relevance in the gaming scene and association with Nintendo. Like it or not, Dragon Quest is absolutely one of those franchises that defines the NES era and RPGs in general. It predated Final Fantasy and has endured to this day. The first four games were on NES, and have sold phenomenally in Japan. Slime appears outside of Dragon Quest pretty frequently, and is an icon of the series, far more important than even Piranha Plant who destroyed the general mook argument people stupidly paraded around.

Sure, not in the States. But so far all the third party characters are from Japan anyway, and Smash is a game developed by a Japanese company with a Japanese Director. Of the 77 Smash characters, three have come outside of Japan. Japan is way too big of a part of Smash to just completely say that Dragon Quest's lack of popularity outside the region is an actual issue. Especially for something as big as Dragon Quest in Japan. Especially when I'm sure Square is constantly looking for an excuse to get a foothold in the States in any way possible.

Of course you're allowed to be disappointed with the character choice that Sakurai makes as always. I just would please beg of this thread to not be hateful towards Dragon Quest as an inclusion or say that it's a nonsensical pick, because I don't think you can legitimately leverage that frustration and anger towards the pick of a big franchise with lots of connections to Nintendo. And potentially other big deals for the future that could have a place in this discussion we could know nothing about.

I would argue that Geno is much more unique than his competition, without a doubt. Mii Gunner is the closest thing we got to his moveset, but the closest Smash comparison that was chosen was Shiek, and not Mega Man. Geno has a more unique design than his competition (being the only one who is a puppet, 4 of the names listed were designed by Toriyama and would be visually similar to each other), a more unique and accessible moveset (only SE rep other than Slime that wouldn't use a sword), and would even have a more unique backstory to how he got in Smash and his place there (being his first appearance in a game in almost 10 years)

Yes Slime would neccisitate an entirely unique and proabably made up moveset, let's not forget that PPlant's moveset comes from ACTUAL Mario games, but repurposed into Smash. I wouldnt say all of the PPlant vibes were positive tho? Creative choice? Absolutely. Was everyone really CHEERING for this decision? Not really. And lets also think about practicality. The team would have to invent moves from the ground up. All of them. And do research into games, etc. Theyve already done research into Geno, and can lift his moveset from his core game, adding in others from the ground up here and there. It's a much smoother process from a resource standpoint.

I concede Dragon Quest is definitely a long lasting, solid JRPG series. However, I do believe that companies not only look to Japanese appeal when marketing games, but also western and worldwide. This is evidenced by Ridley's inclusion in the game (which people in Japan were jokingly calling Captain America). Why would a business only advertise to one part of the world, when you can appeal to BOTH? Dragon Quest has relevance in the gaming scene, absolutely, but Geno is connected to MARIO, who by far is more relevant than DQ, and is Nintendo's flagship series. Let's not forget to the people, the market, Geno places higher in popularity than DQ in Japan for Smash specifically. Fact. You yourself said SE was trying to get a foothold in the west so why would they pick a more eastern popular character? In fact, why wouldn't they go with Sora in that case?

I would (understandably so, i think) be upset if they picked a DQ character, because I believe at the end of the day it would be purely a business transaction. And there's nothing wrong with that! At the end of the day, it's a business and DQ is a legend in gaming and has strong connection to Nintendo. Absolutely. 100%. But the rep would bring little to nothing new to the table. No matter the moveset it would in my opinion, be a variation of the tried and true "Swordsman" character. Maybe he'll use magic? Maybe he'll summon monsters? Sure, but at the end of the day, it would be an ad. Plain and simple. I think it would be a missed opportunity to do something no one thought could happen.

 

[Super_Queijo]

I´m still confident that Genos will be DLC, but I also have a theory that Square is gonna have 2 reps, especially because Geno doen't feel like a Square character, he's a Nintendo (Mario) character most of all. He's gonna be in not because there's a Square slot, but because of fan demand (and Sakurai's wish).

 

[Deleted member]

I´m still confident that Genos will be DLC, but I also have a theory that Square is gonna have 2 reps, especially because Geno doen't feel like a Square character, he's a Nintendo (Mario) character most of all. He's gonna be in not because there's a Square slot, but because of fan demand (and Sakurai's wish).

Imagine Cloud vs Chrono vs Geno, that would be amazing. If they get another SE rep after Geno they better go for Chrono

 

[JarBear]

Wouldn't be nice if one day Nintendo buys the rights to Geno and Mallow. That would solve the issue ...

A man could dream.

 

[Loliko YnT]

I would (understandably so, i think) be upset if they picked a DQ character, because I believe at the end of the day it would be purely a business transaction. DQ is a legend in gaming and has strong connection to Nintendo. Absolutely. 100%. But the rep would bring little to nothing new to the table. No matter the moveset it would in my opinion, be a variation of the tried and true "Swordsman" character. Maybe he'll use magic? Maybe he'll summon monsters? Sure, but at the end of the day, it would be an ad. Plain and simple. I think it would be a missed opportunity.

It wouldn't even be a good add. Why?

Because , except DQ Builders on the Switch , a spin-off , there is no worldwide DQ game on the Switch.
There is DQ10 , a Japan exclusive. But that's it.

And heck , let's suppose they want to play olders DQ games.

No DQ games on the NES Mini , SNES Mini , Wii U eshop , 3DS eshop , Wii eshop , Switch eShop...

Well let's buy a NES Mini (80 dollars) and a cartridge of the original DQ wich must cost a lot of money ! Yeah , sound kinda ridiculous.

They would have to go through emulators , or have A LOT of money.

And even... Let's suppose they own a 3DS. Sweet , there is DQ8/9 on it! Wait... The hero guy doesn't look like the Erdrick guy at all? Oh ? It's a port of a PS2 game ? Wich cost less money ... Maybe I should buy that instead !

Or Heck , they should go back to the freaking DS , just to buy a bunch of DQ remakes or spin-offs.

See the problem ? When It's so hard to get your games , most people will give up after not seeing a DQ game on the Switch.
And DQ Builders is too different from what a DQ rep propose. A lot of people called it a Minecraft rip-off(and It's on the Switch for even LESS MONEY).

As a buisness move , this is plain old dumb.

And SE isn't even sure as to when the DQ11 port for the Switch will be ready next year in Japan. So a worldwide port ready for february of 2019? Ah ! Don't make me laugh.

 

[Potatu]

Wouldn't be nice if one day Nintendo buys the rights to Geno and Mallow. That would solve the issue ...

A man could dream.

How about most of the original SMRPG characters? It would be hilarious to see Booster again.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

How about most of the original SMRPG characters? It would be hilarious to see Booster again.

I would hope that they switch Hinopio's name to "Road", that'd be neat.

Not to mention actually making use of Boshi.

 

[Icewolff92]

New to the site and new to the thread here. But when I saw the talk about "the gun" that Sakurai talked about, I just had to chime in.
While I wouldn't be surprised if it is meant for Geno, we shouldn't add out the chances of someone like KOS-MOS (if it was DLC related), heck it's even possible that he wanted to use it for Mii Gunner in order to upgrade that one.

Don't get me wrong, I want Geno like the rest of you, but there is more options then just Geno when it comes to gun-related characters

 

[EricTheGamerman]

This would be Square Enix's 4th attempt to try to introduce DQ to the states. The characters who were from Japan exclusives were owned by Nintendo, and there were no financial risks of including them. DQ is a third party game with no global appeal or global demand, two things that Geno has. Geno isn't your typical gunner anyway, Megaman, Samus, and Mii gunner all use charge shots and missiles, and Geno can do so much more. A DQ character is just either an anime swordsman or a generic enemy, this is the way people outside of Japan are going to look at it. If Square Enix wanted to push DQ as much as possible, they would have more likely included spirits of them, but instead there are spirits of Geno and Mallow. If we add up all of this, how many parties you have to negotiate with to get either another anime swordsman or generic enemy that no one wants, and already having the rights to Geno and looking at how Geno would no doubt bring something unique to the roster, another DQ character would pretty much be a waste.

Again, the global demand of Dragon Quest is an entirely misplaced argument in my mind when it does have some quite decent exposure outside of Japan even though it never sold gangbusters, and especially against the fact that it's one of the better selling IPs in Japan. Square would love for the series to succeed, and they don't seem to be a poor enough investment to stop releasing entirely in the West, so I suspect they're going to keep trying. It would also just be one character out of the five DLC candidates, so you can cater to different audiences with different DLCs. Dragon Quest is a big enough entity to potentially do the work for. The modern RPG genre arguably owes more to Dragon Quest than Final Fantasy.

You're also attacking and praising characters that don't exist. Geno isn't your typical gunner? Sure, he shouldn't be. Doesn't mean he'd necessarily be super unique from those characters. Possibilities don't always translate the way we envision and Sakurai has made some misses before (As much as I love Ridley, I had honestly hoped for more and his down-air not being the tail jab is one of the biggest missed opportunities). I'm not debating he should be more interesting, but you can't claim he is until you see the actual character. Similarly, the Dragon Quest fighters would probably be less interesting, but could be an incredibly interesting moveset as well (And Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime actually provides a wonderful frame of reference for what say Slime could do in Smash). Also, the whole another anime swordsman argument is one of the most frustrating arguments alongside the "literal who" stuff. Just because a character uses a sword, they are not inherently boring. It's how they're implemented and made interesting. How many characters have basic jabs for example? And so on. Just don't criticize characters that don't exist and could potentially be made interesting or uninteresting. And some people do indeed want them, so that's not really being fair either.

I would argue that Geno is much more unique than his competition, without a doubt. Mii Gunner is the closest thing we got to his moveset, but the closest Smash comparison that was chosen was Shiek, and not Mega Man. Geno has a more unique design than his competition (being the only one who is a puppet, 4 of the names listed were designed by Toriyama and would be visually similar to each other), a more unique and accessible moveset (only SE rep other than Slime that wouldn't use a sword), and would even have a more unique backstory to how he got in Smash and his place there (being his first appearance in a game in almost 10 years)

Yes Slime would neccisitate an entirely unique and proabably made up moveset, let's not forget that PPlant's moveset comes from ACTUAL Mario games, but repurposed into Smash. I wouldnt say all of the PPlant vibes were positive tho? Creative choice? Absolutely. Was everyone really CHEERING for this decision? Not really. And lets also think about practicality. The team would have to invent moves from the ground up. All of them. And do research into games, etc. Theyve already done research into Geno, and can lift his moveset from his core game, adding in others from the ground up here and there. It's a much smoother process from a resource standpoint.

I concede Dragon Quest is definitely a long lasting, solid JRPG series. However, I do believe that companies not only look to Japanese appeal when marketing games, but also western and worldwide. This is evidenced by Ridley's inclusion in the game (which people in Japan were jokingly calling Captain America). Why would a business only advertise to one part of the world, when you can appeal to BOTH? Dragon Quest has relevance in the gaming scene, absolutely, but Geno is connected to MARIO, who by far is more relevant than DQ, and is Nintendo's flagship series. Let's not forget to the people, the market, Geno places higher in popularity than DQ in Japan for Smash specifically. Fact. You yourself said SE was trying to get a foothold in the west so why would they pick a more eastern popular character? In fact, why wouldn't they go with Sora in that case?

I would (understandably so, i think) be upset if they picked a DQ character, because I believe at the end of the day it would be purely a business transaction. And there's nothing wrong with that! At the end of the day, it's a business and DQ is a legend in gaming and has strong connection to Nintendo. Absolutely. 100%. But the rep would bring little to nothing new to the table. No matter the moveset it would in my opinion, be a variation of the tried and true "Swordsman" character. Maybe he'll use magic? Maybe he'll summon monsters? Sure, but at the end of the day, it would be an ad. Plain and simple. I think it would be a missed opportunity to do something no one thought could happen.

As I stated above, I don't think Dragon Quest being in the game is just a business decision. It's a big franchise with big influence, just not as much here. I wouldn't at all be surprised by a Japanese company picking one of the most classic and popular franchises in their region for a character. It's not automatically an ad or even included to be an ad. He'd be representing a classic franchise that deserves a place in the roster when you look at influences in the major genres and has history with Nintendo. Will it possibly coincide with Dragon Quest stuff on Switch? Probably, but that doesn't just make him an ad or necessarily make the situation a missed opportunity when they chose to go for a quite notable IP.

A missed opportunity for us? Sure. Missed opportunity for Smash by including DQ? Not necessarily.


And I still don't think DQ is super likely mind you, I just wouldn't be surprised and I do think it deserves a place in Smash. Ninja Gaiden and Dragon Quest are the biggest two franchises from the NES era that I see missing from Smash at this point.

 

[Wazygoose]

Okay, this is getting to the point of absolute insanity... I have discovered that the rights to Erdrick are behind 4 COMPANIES.

-Square Enix has his assets
-Armor Project owns the assets
-Bird Studio/Akira Toriyama owns the actual character
-Newcomer: Heart Beat (a defunct company) still has legal rights to him on paper because they developed the Super Nintendo remake of Dragon Quest III that his most modern design comes from.

https://store.na.square-enix-games....st-iii-the-seeds-of-salvation-bring-arts-hero

Bring Sugiyama into the mix for the music and that brings us to FIVE separate entities that would need to be negotiated with to make Erdrick DLC possible. It doesn't help that both Sugiyama and Toriyama are notoriously hard to work with either. Once again, a friendly reminder that this character's fan demand is surpassed by the most common enemy in Dragon Quest and even Slime doesn't crack top 20 in Japanese polls for wanted Smash characters. Just for the sake of continuing to beat a dead horse with a tire iron, his game hasn't been released on a Nintendo platform since 2011 as a Japanese exclusive and hasn't been released on a Nintendo platform outside Japan since freakin' 2001 with the Gameboy Color and was just in North America.

This character specifically would require working with more companies and entities THAN THE ENTIRE THIRD PARTY LINE UP ALREADY IN THE GAME. If Sora was a hard no despite having international appeal and being decently wanted, I don't see how they could justify this, especially when Sakurai in his latest interview talked about how perfect cooperation is key even for properties Nintendo owns and how every Smash game is basically a miracle because of this. I... Just... *trembles while staring at clenching fists*

Along with your other posts, this is a good point. I still wouldn’t rule DQ out because lord knows Nintendo makes asinine decisions sometimes. You could argue the history of DQ games and their legacy on the JRPG genre warrants inclusion. But is it THAT worth it? Everyone here says no and I agree, and I think DQ looks cool.

I feel like all of the new characters who got into Ultimate deserve to be there, but man I really feel like Sakurai should have put Geno in the base roster. Of course he's still a major DLC candidate, but his chances were a lot better then. As an obscure RPG character, it just makes less sense to sell him as DLC because he's not a super iconic character that would make everyone (meaning the entire Smash Bros audience) run and buy his DLC like some other characters.

I agree with your point about wanting to introduce Dragon Quest to the west, but it honestly would have been better in the base roster. For SE though, with all the companies involved in getting a DQ character, SE would actually make more money off of Geno, due to him only being owned by Square Enix. Sakurai said that the added Richter to Smash to introduce him to the west. However, he was an echo, making him an easy character to develop, and he was added in the base roster, so DLC is not a good way to add a DQ character if it is solely to make him recognizable in the west. This is were Geno is the best. All third party characters have global appeal or global demand, maybe even both. DQ has neither, but Geno has both. Super Mario RPG is popular in the east and the west. For Smash, Geno is top 5 in the west, and he may not be that highly requested in other regions, but he still makes top 20 in other regions, meaning that adding him would not be bias to the west or east

The obscurity argument is silly when discussing the base roster, but it is not for DLC. Any character can join the Smash base roster and there'd be no problem because they come included with the game alongside everyone else. However, imagine how DLC sales would be for super obscure characters like Game and Watch or someone like Wii Fit Trainer. If Nintendo plans on profiting off DLC, it seems more likely that they are going to choose characters that will grab people's attention and make them want to buy it. Cloud is the perfect example. Yes, Geno is popular, but Smash Bros' audience covers millions of people, people of all ages. If they put Geno up as DLC, not everyone is going to be like "OMG OMG OMG" like they were for other past DLC characters. Outside of Geno fans, the reaction to him as DLC would either be "oh cool they put him in" or "who the hell is that?".

If you look back at Smash 4's DLC, each character is one that would drive sales through the roof. Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy were probably easy to implement and cheaper to put up as DLC because they are already established Smash characters. Ryu and Cloud are gaming icons and obvious picks for DLC in terms of making a lot of money. Corrin was just an advertisement, and Bayonetta supposedly won the ballot.

All in all, I just think it would have made more sense to add Geno for base roster. When making DLC, the goal is money so you have to appeal to a wide audience. Smash 4's DLC characters did that (with the exception of Corrin). Geno may appeal to us, he may appeal to the hardcore Smash community, but that's not the entire audience of the series.

I actually think it makes more sense for Geno to be DLC considering the circumstances. Sakurai was really shooting for the everyone is here story, which is a great one. If SE had to concede Cloud to the base game for that reason, I think DLC would be the best (or only) choice for Geno. Better to have everyone is here, then Geno as DLC, rather than everyone but Cloud is here, then Cloud as DLC.

Geno/Mallow being powerful Spirits would be a good idea in that context. It introduces players to SMRPG and can get them interested in it before DLC. DLC comes out and players can be like, “Oh wait a sec, that’s the dude from that one battle in WoL. *looks up Spirit info*, ah, SMRPG, OK cool. Old game but he looks interesting, a possessed doll with star guns and lasers? Neato-burrito!”

Without huge brand-recognition it’s better to ease into it. Granted that’s a pretty contrived scenario but introducing a more obscure character via single player would be better than dropping him out of the sky (*badum-tss*).

 

[TheCJBrine]

It could be KOS-MOS (well, maybe? I don't know what her weapons look like), but Mii Gunner's gun isn't similar to the Vifam toy's at all.

Plus, Sakurai can just use KOS-MOS art as a reference, why bother using a toy's gun?

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I would hope that they switch Hinopio's name to "Road", that'd be neat.

Not to mention actually making use of Boshi.

I want a Boshi skin for Yoshi in smash. His design is so silly I love it.

 

[childishgamgeno]

It wouldn't even be a good add. Why?

Because , except DQ Builders on the Switch , a spin-off , there is no worldwide DQ game on the Switch.
There is DQ10 , a Japan exclusive. But that's it.

And heck , let's suppose they want to play olders DQ games.

No DQ games on the NES Mini , SNES Mini , Wii U eshop , 3DS eshop , Wii eshop , Switch eShop...

Well let's buy a NES Mini (80 dollars) and a cartridge of the original DQ wich must cost a lot of money ! Yeah , sound kinda ridiculous.

They would have to go through emulators , or have A LOT of money.

And even... Let's suppose they own a 3DS. Sweet , there is DQ8/9 on it! Wait... The hero guy doesn't look like the Erdrick guy at all? Oh ? It's a port of a PS2 game ? Wich cost less money ... Maybe I should buy that instead !

Or Heck , they should go back to the freaking DS , just to buy a bunch of DQ remakes or spin-offs.

See the problem ? When It's so hard to get your games , most people will give up after not seeing a DQ game on the Switch.
And DQ Builders is too different from what a DQ rep propose. A lot of people called it a Minecraft rip-off(and It's on the Switch for even LESS MONEY).

As a buisness move , this is plain old dumb.

And SE isn't even sure as to when the DQ11 port for the Switch will be ready next year in Japan. So a worldwide port ready for february of 2019? Ah ! Don't make me laugh.

After doing a bit of digging, every major DQ game has been released on a Nintendo console at some point in some way shape or form. The first three being on the Wii (eShop presumably), 4,5, and 6 on DS. 7 and 8 on 3DS, with 10 being the only Switch release and 11 upcoming.

Idk what the deal is right now, but i feel like the only thing working in DQ's favor is it's historical impact. It's often cited as the first ever console RPG, and is monumental in Japanese culture. That being said, it didn't really do well in America until VIII, and even then, I think the response is more muddied out here than Japan. Not only that, but DQ has been developed by 5 companies while only being published by SE. (Also Nintendo is cited as a publisher on its wiki)

I'm not saying I disagree with you on that it would be a lackluster business move, nor am I changing my stance on how Geno would be a better pick, however if Erdrick is picked I would get it? But it's only main point is it's historical impact, DQ isn't highly requested, (not even in Japan which was odd to me after researching) which means people in Japan want Geno more than DQ even though DQ is kind of their thing? Interesting.

Again, the global demand of Dragon Quest is an entirely misplaced argument in my mind when it does have some quite decent exposure outside of Japan even though it never sold gangbusters, and especially against the fact that it's one of the better selling IPs in Japan. Square would love for the series to succeed, and they don't seem to be a poor enough investment to stop releasing entirely in the West, so I suspect they're going to keep trying. It would also just be one character out of the five DLC candidates, so you can cater to different audiences with different DLCs. Dragon Quest is a big enough entity to potentially do the work for. The modern RPG genre arguably owes more to Dragon Quest than Final Fantasy.

You're also attacking and praising characters that don't exist. Geno isn't your typical gunner? Sure, he shouldn't be. Doesn't mean he'd necessarily be super unique from those characters. Possibilities don't always translate the way we envision and Sakurai has made some misses before (As much as I love Ridley, I had honestly hoped for more and his down-air not being the tail jab is one of the biggest missed opportunities). I'm not debating he should be more interesting, but you can't claim he is until you see the actual character. Similarly, the Dragon Quest fighters would probably be less interesting, but could be an incredibly interesting moveset as well (And Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime actually provides a wonderful frame of reference for what say Slime could do in Smash). Also, the whole another anime swordsman argument is one of the most frustrating arguments alongside the "literal who" stuff. Just because a character uses a sword, they are not inherently boring. It's how they're implemented and made interesting. How many characters have basic jabs for example? And so on. Just don't criticize characters that don't exist and could potentially be made interesting or uninteresting. And some people do indeed want them, so that's not really being fair either.



As I stated above, I don't think Dragon Quest being in the game is just a business decision. It's a big franchise with big influence, just not as much here. I wouldn't at all be surprised by a Japanese company picking one of the most classic and popular franchises in their region for a character. It's not automatically an ad or even included to be an ad. He'd be representing a classic franchise that deserves a place in the roster when you look at influences in the major genres and has history with Nintendo. Will it possibly coincide with Dragon Quest stuff on Switch? Probably, but that doesn't just make him an ad or necessarily make the situation a missed opportunity when they chose to go for a quite notable IP.

A missed opportunity for us? Sure. Missed opportunity for Smash by including DQ? Not necessarily.
And I still don't think DQ is super likely mind you, I just wouldn't be surprised and I do think it deserves a place in Smash. Ninja Gaiden and Dragon Quest are the biggest two franchises from the NES era that I see missing from Smash at this point.

I dont think the argument is that Swordusers are boring, they're just getting stale. Sure I can use Roy, Ike, and Marth who all play slightly differently, but most of the moves (honestly with the exception of Ike) are virtually the same input. Same with all the Links. Could DQ be vastly different? Of course, but theres a limit to how different, simply because he uses a sword. Geno would definitely be unique from typical gunners (which there's only really about two). Every character has a basic jab but they all have different equipment.I still think it's be a missed opportunity for Smash. That's not to say Smash wouldn't benefit from DQ, but I still don't think it would be as interesting or effective as Geno.

Hmmm but Idk, i'd still se it as an ad. Sure it's legendary, I get that, but if you look at the smash pattern happening, all the previous Mii costumes are getting upgrades to AT's or straight up Fighters. DQ was nowhere in Smash4, didn't really place on the ballot as far as we know, and isn't placing in fan polls either. Remember, DQ speculation started only this year. I agree DQ is legendary stuff. Historically legendary stuff. But as far as Smash goes, it's kinda coming out of no where. Why else would you include DQ (and do all that work to get it) over a character who already has ties to not only Smash, but Mario? History and Money, imo. Like Corrin.

And interestingly enough, with all the DQ being legendary talk, I wonder why DQ didn't get any representation in the form of a Mii Costume last game if thats the case.

 

[waterhasataste]

There are 5 sources who have heard Geno's name. Just a bit of an update. Multiple believe he is a red herring.

Have they said why they believe he's a red herring?

 

[ZelDan]

I´m still confident that Genos will be DLC, but I also have a theory that Square is gonna have 2 reps, especially because Geno doen't feel like a Square character, he's a Nintendo (Mario) character most of all. He's gonna be in not because there's a Square slot, but because of fan demand (and Sakurai's wish).

It'd be cool if we were to get third Square character on the roster along with Cloud and whoever the speculated about second rep is, since there are some other awesome picks beyond Geno (Crono, Terra, Cecil sticking out the most for me). But with how difficult SE is being I can't say I see it happening. It's probably a miracle we're even getting a second SE rep lol.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It'd be cool if we were to get third Square character on the roster along with Cloud and whoever the speculated about second rep is, since there are some other awesome picks beyond Geno (Crono, Terra, Cecil sticking out the most for me). But with how difficult SE is being I can't say I see it happening. It's probably a miracle we're even getting a second SE rep lol.

It'd be nice if we could have our cake and eat it too, but I'd be fine with only having one new SE character this time.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

It'd be cool if we were to get third Square character on the roster along with Cloud and whoever the speculated about second rep is, since there are some other awesome picks beyond Geno (Crono, Terra, Cecil sticking out the most for me). But with how difficult SE is being I can't say I see it happening. It's probably a miracle we're even getting a second SE rep lol.

Ultimate plot twist: Geno comes with Sora as an echo fighter of Cloud.

 

[Loliko YnT]

After doing a bit of digging, every major DQ game has been released on a Nintendo console at some point in some way shape or form. The first three being on the Wii (eShop presumably), 4,5, and 6 on DS. 7 and 8 on 3DS, with 10 being the only Switch release and 11 upcoming.

Idk what the deal is right now, but i feel like the only thing working in DQ's favor is it's historical impact. It's often cited as the first ever console RPG, and is monumental in Japanese culture. That being said, it didn't really do well in America until VIII, and even then, I think the response is more muddied out here than Japan. Not only that, but DQ has been developed by 5 companies while only being published by SE. (Also Nintendo is cited as a publisher on its wiki)

I'm not saying I disagree with you on that it would be a lackluster business move, nor am I changing my stance on how Geno would be a better pick, however if Erdrick is picked I would get it? But it's only main point is it's historical impact, DQ isn't highly requested, (not even in Japan which was odd to me after researching) which means people in Japan want Geno more than DQ even though DQ is kind of their thing? Interesting.

Yeah , as you said , a DQ rep , especially Erdrick , should be picked for history. I just think that history... Is there , but hard to get.

The Wii eshop is dead , the Switch doesn't have a worldwide DQ game... Only the DS and 3DS. Sure , popular consoles , but It's weird to add a character to a Switch game to promote 3DS games.

But if we get Erdrick , a cool thing they could do is like a DQ Legacy collection , like Megaman did! If they aren't too stingy with the prices ( they could port the NES/SNES one at least ) I think a lot of people could be interested , and would show DQ history.

 

[PolarPanda]

Have they said why they believe he's a red herring?

Your guess is as good as mine. 4 of those sources aren't mine, I got them from somewhere else. You can trust me on that though, I've proven it to a lot of people in the thread. My source's info on Geno hasn't been taken back. I'm not exactly sure why the other 4 think he is a red herring.