Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Icewolff92]

It could be KOS-MOS (well, maybe? I don't know what her weapons look like), but Mii Gunner's gun isn't similar to the Vifam toy's at all.

Plus, Sakurai can just use KOS-MOS art as a reference, why bother using a toy's gun?

Granted, I can't speak on how Sakurai works. But just look at today's AAA games. Instead of doing models from scratch, more often then not, they have the voice actor doing motion capture in order to help the animation. What I mean by that is this. You can only do so much with a concept art (aka how the character would look). Having an actual statue as a model gives you more perspective on how the character could move around.

Having that gunner could be something that he works on as a model on how "insert character X" would move his/her weapon. I know that it helps me when I have a problem thinking about how to write a character as the hopeful author I am.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, I don't know. But I hope you get where I coming at.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Also let's think about how we don't see any FF7 assets in WoL not even PNGs, but we see SMRPG ones. Two music tracks. Unless FF is getting more music in DLC, thats kind of it.

Assuming it was difficult to get Cloud in for free, FF music in for free and couldnt get any PNG assets in game, how much more DIFFICULT would it be to get freaking historical Dragon Quest content in game?? Not to mention the OTHER companies to negotiate with, and if DQ is a much bigger deal than FF wouldn't that make securing those rights even more difficult? Remember we're all assuming it was hard to secure the rights to GENO (a one time character in one game) from Brawl until SSB4.


I also don't think KOS-MOS would get in over another Xenoblade character. Like Rex for example.

Yeah , as you said , a DQ rep , especially Erdrick , should be picked for history. I just think that history... Is there , but hard to get.

The Wii eshop is dead , the Switch doesn't have a worldwide DQ game... Only the DS and 3DS. Sure , popular consoles , but It's weird to add a character to a Switch game to promote 3DS games.

But if we get Erdrick , a cool thing they could do is like a DQ Legacy collection , like Megaman did! If they aren't too stingy with the prices ( they could port the NES/SNES one at least ) I think a lot of people could be interested , and would show DQ history.

I think thats the only thing tho. It's not like Erdrick has a huge following in the States, or is placing high in the polls or has history with Smash. He's just simply part of a legendary franchise that has connections to Nintendo and I can respect that. But I honestly only see it as a way to try to get people out here (cuz we're all going to get Smash) to like DQ more. Kinda like FE. It's not a bad business move. I just think Geno would be better for a plethora of reasons ive already stated lol

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Granted, I can't speak on how Sakurai works. But just look at today's AAA games. Instead of doing models from scratch, more often then not, they have the voice actor doing motion capture in order to help the animation. What I mean by that is this. You can only do so much with a concept art (aka how the character would look). Having an actual statue as a model gives you more perspective on how the character could move around.

Having that gunner could be something that he works on as a model on how "insert character X" would move his/her weapon. I know that it helps me when I have a problem thinking about how to write a character as the hopeful author I am.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, I don't know. But I hope you get where I coming at.

This is the kind of thing that's really only important if the character has stiff or unspecific movement in their games... Like Geno, for example. It's not necessary to have a reference if their entire animation set is totally done for you in another game.

 

[Deleted member]

Again, the global demand of Dragon Quest is an entirely misplaced argument in my mind when it does have some quite decent exposure outside of Japan even though it never sold gangbusters, and especially against the fact that it's one of the better selling IPs in Japan. Square would love for the series to succeed, and they don't seem to be a poor enough investment to stop releasing entirely in the West, so I suspect they're going to keep trying. It would also just be one character out of the five DLC candidates, so you can cater to different audiences with different DLCs. Dragon Quest is a big enough entity to potentially do the work for. The modern RPG genre arguably owes more to Dragon Quest than Final Fantasy.

You're also attacking and praising characters that don't exist. Geno isn't your typical gunner? Sure, he shouldn't be. Doesn't mean he'd necessarily be super unique from those characters. Possibilities don't always translate the way we envision and Sakurai has made some misses before (As much as I love Ridley, I had honestly hoped for more and his down-air not being the tail jab is one of the biggest missed opportunities). I'm not debating he should be more interesting, but you can't claim he is until you see the actual character. Similarly, the Dragon Quest fighters would probably be less interesting, but could be an incredibly interesting moveset as well (And Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime actually provides a wonderful frame of reference for what say Slime could do in Smash). Also, the whole another anime swordsman argument is one of the most frustrating arguments alongside the "literal who" stuff. Just because a character uses a sword, they are not inherently boring. It's how they're implemented and made interesting. How many characters have basic jabs for example? And so on. Just don't criticize characters that don't exist and could potentially be made interesting or uninteresting. And some people do indeed want them, so that's not really being fair either.



As I stated above, I don't think Dragon Quest being in the game is just a business decision. It's a big franchise with big influence, just not as much here. I wouldn't at all be surprised by a Japanese company picking one of the most classic and popular franchises in their region for a character. It's not automatically an ad or even included to be an ad. He'd be representing a classic franchise that deserves a place in the roster when you look at influences in the major genres and has history with Nintendo. Will it possibly coincide with Dragon Quest stuff on Switch? Probably, but that doesn't just make him an ad or necessarily make the situation a missed opportunity when they chose to go for a quite notable IP.

A missed opportunity for us? Sure. Missed opportunity for Smash by including DQ? Not necessarily.


And I still don't think DQ is super likely mind you, I just wouldn't be surprised and I do think it deserves a place in Smash. Ninja Gaiden and Dragon Quest are the biggest two franchises from the NES era that I see missing from Smash at this point.

There may be some people who want DQ, but very little. Not enough demand to work with 5 parties, one of which, the music composer, being known for denying Japan's war crimes of WWII. When I bring up the choices from DQ being either an anime swordsman or a generic enemy, I say that these aren't good choices compared to Geno, who is the only character of his kind. Based on how interesting Sakurai has made characters in Smash, you really can't deny that Geno would definitely be a unique character, especially if you look at what he can do in Super Mario RPG. He can fire Geno beam, he can fire Geno whirl, a ridiculously powerful disc, Geno blast, where he literally summons blasts from the sky, Geno boost, when he increases his power and defense, and Geno flash, where he transforms into a cannon and fires an expanding light beam, which then explodes, defeating all of the enemies in his way, and you are sitting there telling me that I can't claim he would be entirely different than gunner characters who only fire missiles and charge shots? I am dumbfounded, honestly. Let's take a look at some of the anime swordsman who are already in Smash. We have Robin, who is a sword user, but also uses magic, and how do people look at him? An anime swordsman. Take a look at Shulk, who can see the future and uses Monado arts to increase his attack power, damage, speed, defense, and recovery. How do people view him? Another anime swordsman. Take a look at Corrin, who uses a dragon fang to attack, and a sword, which is also a chainsaw, which is engulfed in fire or thunder (can't tell which one), and how do people view him? Another anime swordsman. No matter how different a character from DQ that isn't slime would be, they will always be viewed as another anime swordsman. Add this to how unique Geno would be, and it isn't even a competition. Btw, the last character to be added to Smash based solely on Japanese requests was Marth in 2001, and he is a first party character, and little to no people want a DQ character. It isn't Nintendo's job to introduce it to the states, and Square Enix has already tried numerous times to introduce it, and they would hardly make any money off of one, considering how many different companies will have to split the profit of a DQ character, as compared to Geno, just Nintendo and Square Enix

 

[EarlTamm]

While I would not quite simplify any character type or take things at face value, Sakurai has been avoiding character who weild swords. It's obvious as to why that is. The only sword weilder we got this game was Chrom, and he was an echo. Of course, it is Nintendo who gave him the list, but I have little doubt that Sakurai was able to voice his opinions and possible concerns for certain character.

 

[coolcat12347]

Question- has it ever been said that spirits deconfirm characters?

 

[Deleted member]

Question- has it ever been said that spirits deconfirm characters?

No, Sakurai has actually confirmed that they don't

 

[coolcat12347]

No, Sakurai has actually confirmed that they don't

So people are just trying to be negative.


Does anyone have pictures of where he said this?

 

[childishgamgeno]

Also, another interesting bit: WHY wasn't Dragon Quest (any of them) on the SNES Classic?
(Not even in the JPN Famicom exclusive version) And I'm saying this with no bias, it's legendary status should've cemented at least one of the first three games on here, even if it was just in Japan.

My first theory was that maybe they only stuck with games that were made from 1990 and above, which ruled out the first three. But looking at DQ5,6,or7 I see no reason why they weren't added to AT LEAST the JP Superfamicom exclusive version of the SNES

SMRPG was, and was common to all regions.

 

[Icewolff92]

While I would not quite simplify any character type or take things at face value, Sakurai has been avoiding character who weild swords. It's obvious as to why that is. The only sword weilder we got this game was Chrom, and he was an echo. Of course, it is Nintendo who gave him the list, but I have little doubt that Sakurai was able to voice his opinions and possible concerns for certain character.

The fact that Nintendo is giving him the list is what makes me more pessimistic than optimistic about Geno's chances. This is the same company that told him to add a Fire emblem Fates character a Bayonetta in order to promote their specific game. There is a reason why many expect someone like Fire Emblem Three House protagonist and a Gen8 Pokemon right now (myself included)

 

[Deleted member]

So people are just trying to be negative.


Does anyone have pictures of where he said this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/KirbyGamecube/status/1067077325815259136?s=19

 

[Icewolff92]

This is the kind of thing that's really only important if the character has stiff or unspecific movement in their games... Like Geno, for example. It's not necessary to have a reference if their entire animation set is totally done for you in another game.

Gotcha

 

[Room100]

Thank you for your support, it's appreciated!

Amazing name/icon my friend

 

[waterhasataste]

Also, another interesting bit: WHY wasn't Dragon Quest (any of them) on the SNES Classic?
(Not even in the JPN Famicom exclusive version) And I'm saying this with no bias, it's legendary status should've cemented at least one of the first three games on here, even if it was just in Japan.

My first theory was that maybe they only stuck with games that were made from 1990 and above, which ruled out the first three. But looking at DQ5,6,or7 I see no reason why they weren't added to AT LEAST the JP Superfamicom exclusive version of the SNES

SMRPG was, and was common to all regions.

From what I've heard from some Dragon Quest fans, the creator of the series doesn't like direct ports of his games. He doesn't wanna port something without adding some more content to it. Don't know how accurate that statement is though.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I dunno.

If Nintendo themselves is willing to pay for Geno, Square might play ball. It helps that he's on Vergeben's list, Sora is seemingly disconfirmed based on his words (though he may still have a chance), and Dragon Quest is apparently a licensing nightmare. Sephiroth also seems unlikely based on our current FF content and the whole music thing (which is also a problem with DQ). Nintendo also acknowledged SMRPG this year at least, along with straight-up asking people if they were Team Mallow or Team Geno (nothing to do with Smash, it's just that they seem to have not forgotten about them).

 

[childishgamgeno]

From what I've heard from some Dragon Quest fans, the creator of the series doesn't like direct ports of his games. He doesn't wanna port something without adding some more content to it. Don't know how accurate that statement is though.

If the creator doesn't like ports of his own games onto Nintendo systems, if Nintendo asked...why would he want DQ in Smash? lol

Also my same question honestly goes to Chrono Trigger as well. Wonder why that wasn't on it either.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Concerning the Vifam gun and toy figure , while it has several points for Geno (Not a lot of animations , no official artwork with the arm canon ...) , I think it could also be for the Inkling (despise how different the gun is , and having 3D models of them because Splatoon 1) or a custom robo rep.(Ray 01 seem to not be a spirit , but the Mii costume make me skeptical.)
But if it isn't the Inkling , then , who it is ? Maybe it was for the gun thingy they use in WoL to get back the spirit after they defeated their host ?

 

[waterhasataste]

If the creator doesn't like ports of his own games onto Nintendo systems, if Nintendo asked...why would he want DQ in Smash? lol

Also my same question honestly goes to Chrono Trigger as well. Wonder why that wasn't on it either.

Him not liking direct ports of games doesn't really conflict with getting a Dragon Quest rep though. He could be against direct ports but still be 100% okay with his franchise getting represented into Smash (assuming they're able to negotiate with all 5 companies). Plus there's apparently a handful of Dragon Quest remakes on the DS/3DS. I don't think it really means anything for Dragon Quest chances in my opinion.

 

[MattX20]

Concerning the Vifam gun and toy figure , while it has several points for Geno (Not a lot of animations , no official artwork with the arm canon ...) , I think it could also be for the Inkling (despise how different the gun is , and having 3D models of them because Splatoon 1) or a custom robo rep.(Ray 01 seem to not be a spirit , but the Mii costume make me skeptical.)
But if it isn't the Inkling , then , who it is ? Maybe it was for the gun thingy they use in WoL to get back the spirit after they defeated their host ?

The Splatoon weaponry already has high quality artwork and 3D models for references. And as for WOL, not one of the bosses used anything that can even be construed as being inspired by the Vifam gun.

 

[TheCJBrine]

If the gun is completely different from the intended design, then it ruins the whole point of using it as a reference.

It's not the Inkling's gun, it's not the Spirits gun...it's not any gun that isn't even remotely close.

To be fair, the gun could possibly be for something other than Smash, although Sakurai's words do lineup with when Ultimate may have started development if I recall correctly...

 

[Nekoo]

The Splatoon weaponry already has high quality artwork and 3D models for references. And as for WOL, not one of the bosses used anything that can even be construed as being inspired by the Vifam gun.

Something, something, not the way Sakurai work for the animation etc.
He don't just take animation from a game or another, or reference, he always make posing with actual action figures, which is...More common than what you might think in 3D animation when you don't/Can't use motion capture.

 

[Datboigeno]

*ignore dis post*

 

[TheCJBrine]

Something, something, not the way Sakurai work for the animation etc.
He don't just take animation from a game or another, or reference, he always make posing with actual action figures, which is...More common than what you might think in 3D animation when you don't/Can't use motion capture.

So it could've been for every character with a gun? Or the items?

I guess we can toss this Vifam Toy info out the window.

 

[Deleted member]

So it could've been for every character with a gun? Or the items?

I guess we can toss this Vifam Toy info out the window.

Sakurai never bought anything like this for Smash 4, meaning that Sakurai is using this for something or someone new in the game, and Inkling is a gunner, but like MattX20 mentioned, Inkling already has a 3D model for referencing, so Sakurai would have just used that instead of using a different model as a reference, especially one that isn't ink based. Geno's gun doesn't have any official art, so this is the closest thing Sakurai can use for a reference for Geno's gun

 

[owjies]

Don't forget that the Vifam toy might've been for an Assist Trophy, an item, or even content that never made it into the game. I'll say though, the similarities of the toy to Mach Rider were pretty striking.

 

[Icewolff92]

I dunno.

If Nintendo themselves is willing to pay for Geno, Square might play ball. It helps that he's on Vergeben's list, Sora is seemingly disconfirmed based on his words (though he may still have a chance), and Dragon Quest is apparently a licensing nightmare. Sephiroth also seems unlikely based on our current FF content and the whole music thing (which is also a problem with DQ). Nintendo also acknowledged SMRPG this year at least, along with straight-up asking people if they were Team Mallow or Team Geno (nothing to do with Smash, it's just that they seem to have not forgotten about them).

Sure a twitter handle was mentioning Super Mario RPG, but that isn't really something of indications. I mean, a twitter handle of Konami congratulated Castlevania on its anniversary a while back.. Do we have a new Castlevania game? Chrunchyroll and Funimation had on numerous occasions tweeted about Nintendo directs, does that mean Goku is in Smash?

Sure, Nintendo could pay money for Geno, and if Sakurai chose from scratch, I could easily see them doing it. But when Nintendo is the one in charge, it begs the question if they are having the Square rep being someone Square wants to push in order to help the relationship with Square Enix. And unless Square and Nintendo have decided to make an HD remake and/or sequel to SMRP, due to the success of octopath traveler I don't see why Square would want to push him. That's something I think people should have in mind.

DQ has the composer problem, but in terms of licensing of characters hasn't been a problem for Nintendo before when it comes to the characters. Boom/Fortune Street (the game is called Boom Street here in Europe for some reason). Mario Sports Mix. Mario Hoops (that basketball game for Nintendo DS that everyone seems to forget) is all Dragon Quest x Nintendo crossovers. They could for all we know to get some other music for a potential Dragon Quest Stage. I mean SMRPG tracks is in one of the stages in Boom/Fortune street for example. Who says that they wouldn't do something similar here would a Dragon Quest character get in.

And Final Fantasy.. well Sephiroth is an iconic character... They could sell him on that alone and both Nintendo and Square knows that. And with Final Fantasy games coming to Switch next year... You get my point.

But with all things considered, I do think Geno has a chance. Minimum maybe, but a chance non the less. I mean, they have the rights to make a spirit, they had/have the rights to make him a Mii Costume for Smash 4. I'm mentioning the Mii Costume considering a ton of them got "promoted" as either playable or assist trophies with the playable being Chrom, Isabelle, King K, and Inklings. It could be that they managed to only get him because of how Square can be.

 

[Icewolff92]

Don't forget that the Vifam toy might've been for an Assist Trophy, an item, or even content that never made it into the game. I'll say though, the similarities of the toy to Mach Rider were pretty striking.

Good point

 

[Nekoo]

Sakurai never bought anything like this for Smash 4, meaning that Sakurai is using this for something or someone new in the game, and Inkling is a gunner, but like MattX20 mentioned, Inkling already has a 3D model for referencing, so Sakurai would have just used that instead of using a different model as a reference, especially one that isn't ink based. Geno's gun doesn't have any official art, so this is the closest thing Sakurai can use for a reference for Geno's gun

Insert picture of Sakurai playing with Pit/Dark Pit/Samus Figma

He didn't buy anything for Smash 4 because he had all he needed.

 

[MattX20]

Don't forget that the Vifam toy might've been for an Assist Trophy, an item, or even content that never made it into the game. I'll say though, the similarities of the toy to Mach Rider were pretty striking.

Okay, then can you point out which entirely new assist trophy required something like Vifam's gun?

 

[Loliko YnT]

I know which character could use the vifam gun.

The Toad from the Mushroom Kingdom in SMRPG. He forgot his rocket launcher. He's the only Mario canon character to use a gun. And he can use the vifam gun. AND SE OWN HIM. IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER

 

[MattX20]

I know which character could use the vifam gun.

The Toad from the Mushroom Kingdom in SMRPG. He forgot his rocket launcher. He's the only Mario canon character to use a gun. And he can use the vifam gun. AND SE OWN HIM. IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER

...Toad isn't an AT.

 

[Nekoo]

...Toad isn't an AT.

swoooosh?

 

[Deleted member]

...Toad isn't an AT.

The joke flew over your head, huh?

 

[Loliko YnT]

...Toad isn't an AT.

WE HAVE 59 AT.

HE'LL BE THE 60TH AT WITH GENO AS A PLAYABLE CHARACTER.

IT'S ALL GOING TOGETHER (Alright I'm going to stop lol)

 

[Inawordyes]

Okay, so I'm back on Page 369 still and getting caught up, but I'm seeing talk about the Vifram figure and the gun again, and I had a thought.
Dataminers found that there was apparently a skipped number in the character files, like someone was planned and was later cut. Could be PP, could be a DLC fighter, could just be someone cut entirely.

Considering how far back Sakurai got the Vifram figure and how it doesn't match up to anything we've seen in the base game at all, how Vergeben has known about the second SE character for quite a while and how that predated Sakurai saying the DLC characters were finalized (meaning it's been basically a given for quite a while), how Vergeben has also said the second SE character will be the first DLC fighter, how Sakurai has specifically name-dropped Geno as someone he wanted to add + gotten the ability to use him and his music for SSB4 and in Ultimate, how Nintendo dropped a random SMRPG reference on their Twitter a while back, how an artist at NoA said that Geno was a "hot topic" in the offices sometime back in last September-ish(?), and how we've had rumors that Cloud was the last vet to be greenlit because SE was being stingy about wanting DLC.

With all that considered, is it possible that Geno was actually meant originally to be in the base roster and was maybe begun to be worked on but was later cut and moved to DLC because of Square as a concession to keep Cloud in the base game? Sakurai gets the Vifram figure early on to plan for Geno, has to cut him (leaving a skipped chardata number in the files like the dataminers found), Vergeben hears about another SE character and so that's why he's confident in that early on, and even though Geno gets cut from the base game he's still reassured from his sources that the SE character is happening which is why he doesn't back away until much later when it becomes clear they're definitively DLC instead. Because Geno was already planned, he wouldn't necessarily be starting from scratch to make, making him the easiest of the 5 DLC characters to prepare/finish, hence why he's the first. This would also explain why Nintendo brought SMRPG randomly into the public mind and acknowledged it for the first time in a long while, and also why there was a lot of Geno talk at NoA. And of course, it also explains why PolarPanda is hearing a lot about Geno from his NoA source now too.

Is that too much of a reach, to combine so many different loose plot threads?

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

If you ask me... it's between Geno and Sephiroth.

Of those characters, Sora, Crono, and the Dragon Quest characters have SUCH licensing shenanigans surrounding them (Bird Studio, Disney, etc.) that it makes it REALLY HARD to pull off.

That leaves Geno and Sephiroth.

Points for Geno:

He's a long requested character who is tied to Mario, Nintendo's biggest name. You open the Fighter Pass with Geno, you've got a long requested fan favorite leading the DLC front and people will get hyped because... YOU CAN PLAY AS GENO! Can you IMAGINE the headlines?

Points for Sephiroth:

He's a fan favorite villain from one of the biggest games of all. Said game is already represented in Smash. You open the Fighter Pass with Sephiroth, you've got a huge popular villain leading the DLC front and people will get hyped because... YOU CAN PLAY AS SEPHIROTH! Can you IMAGINE the headlines?

Also both characters result in huge headlines which Nintendo probably wants to open with if they wanna sell $25 season passes to people who aren't already committed to buying it.

Either way the end result is.... "they said it couldn't be done, told me that it's the kind of battle that just couldn't be won...... they'll never make it no, not in THIS lifetime... WELL GUESS AGAIN MY FRIEND"

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, so I'm back on Page 369 still and getting caught up, but I'm seeing talk about the Vifram figure and the gun again, and I had a thought.
Dataminers found that there was apparently a skipped number in the character files, like someone was planned and was later cut. Could be PP, could be a DLC fighter, could just be someone cut entirely.

Considering how far back Sakurai got the Vifram figure and how it doesn't match up to anything we've seen in the base game at all, how Vergeben has known about the second SE character for quite a while and how that predated Sakurai saying the DLC characters were finalized (meaning it's been basically a given for quite a while), how Vergeben has also said the second SE character will be the first DLC fighter, how Sakurai has specifically name-dropped Geno as someone he wanted to add + gotten the ability to use him and his music for SSB4 and in Ultimate, how Nintendo dropped a random SMRPG reference on their Twitter a while back, how an artist at NoA said that Geno was a "hot topic" in the offices sometime back in last September-ish(?), and how we've had rumors that Cloud was the last vet to be greenlit because SE was being stingy about wanting DLC.

With all that considered, is it possible that Geno was actually meant originally to be in the base roster and was maybe begun to be worked on but was later cut and moved to DLC because of Square as a concession to keep Cloud in the base game? Sakurai gets the Vifram figure early on to plan for Geno, has to cut him (leaving a skipped chardata number in the files like the dataminers found), Vergeben hears about another SE character and so that's why he's confident in that early on, and even though Geno gets cut from the base game he's still reassured from his sources that the SE character is happening which is why he doesn't back away until much later when it becomes clear they're definitively DLC instead. Because Geno was already planned, he wouldn't necessarily be starting from scratch to make, making him the easiest of the 5 DLC characters to prepare/finish, hence why he's the first. This would also explain why Nintendo brought SMRPG randomly into the public mind and acknowledged it for the first time in a long while, and also why there was a lot of Geno talk at NoA. And of course, it also explains why PolarPanda is hearing a lot about Geno from his NoA source now too.

Is that too much of a reach, to combine so many different loose plot threads?

No

 

[owjies]

Okay, so I'm back on Page 369 still and getting caught up, but I'm seeing talk about the Vifram figure and the gun again, and I had a thought.
Dataminers found that there was apparently a skipped number in the character files, like someone was planned and was later cut. Could be PP, could be a DLC fighter, could just be someone cut entirely.

Considering how far back Sakurai got the Vifram figure and how it doesn't match up to anything we've seen in the base game at all, how Vergeben has known about the second SE character for quite a while and how that predated Sakurai saying the DLC characters were finalized (meaning it's been basically a given for quite a while), how Vergeben has also said the second SE character will be the first DLC fighter, how Sakurai has specifically name-dropped Geno as someone he wanted to add + gotten the ability to use him and his music for SSB4 and in Ultimate, how Nintendo dropped a random SMRPG reference on their Twitter a while back, how an artist at NoA said that Geno was a "hot topic" in the offices sometime back in last September-ish(?), and how we've had rumors that Cloud was the last vet to be greenlit because SE was being stingy about wanting DLC.

With all that considered, is it possible that Geno was actually meant originally to be in the base roster and was maybe begun to be worked on but was later cut and moved to DLC because of Square as a concession to keep Cloud in the base game? Sakurai gets the Vifram figure early on to plan for Geno, has to cut him (leaving a skipped chardata number in the files like the dataminers found), Vergeben hears about another SE character and so that's why he's confident in that early on, and even though Geno gets cut from the base game he's still reassured from his sources that the SE character is happening which is why he doesn't back away until much later when it becomes clear they're definitively DLC instead. Because Geno was already planned, he wouldn't necessarily be starting from scratch to make, making him the easiest of the 5 DLC characters to prepare/finish, hence why he's the first. This would also explain why Nintendo brought SMRPG randomly into the public mind and acknowledged it for the first time in a long while, and also why there was a lot of Geno talk at NoA. And of course, it also explains why PolarPanda is hearing a lot about Geno from his NoA source now too.

Is that too much of a reach, to combine so many different loose plot threads?

It could be possible, but I think I remember Vaanrose pointing out in the General Thread that the characters are ordered in such a way that 3rd party characters are grouped together. This was a point brought up to dispel the speculation that the cut character was Monster Hunter.

 

[Deleted member]

Insert picture of Sakurai playing with Pit/Dark Pit/Samus Figma

He didn't buy anything for Smash 4 because he had all he needed.

Exactly. Which means there is something new in this game that Sakurai bought the Vifam gun for

 

[Deleted member]

Not going to ask about this list not my buisness just the buisness those of those involved and I'll keep it at that.

If anything points towards Geno there is hope.

Still 50/50. But I do believe in his chances.