Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Griselda]

Personally? I think that after a while it stops being on you, the fans, to try harder and harder to 'convince' a developer to do what you want (and will give them your money for), and it starts being entirely on them to actually listen to what's being said (so that they can take your money more effectively). Obviously, you can't just toss in whoever you want without working out deals with those characters' owners, and obviously you also can't please everyone - but what you can do is try.

And if you fail, then I think it'd be a pretty decent thing to do to be transparent about the whole thing. "We've heard that you have support for this character, but unfortunately talks fell through/we couldn't come to an agreement/it didn't work out". Not even to the point of "We couldn't because of X or Y" but a simple "We tried but couldn't".

Like, we're sitting here trying to piece together what might've happened behind closed doors in regards to Geno, but why do we even have to? Why hasn't anyone official made a statement? Sakurai was perfectly fine saying "I was hoping I'd be able to put him in as far back as Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but unfortunately that never ended up materializing. " in regards to Sm4sh's costume, so why go completely silent about it this time?

And before anyone says it, this isn't an 'entitled gamer' thing at all. It's about a company/customer dynamic. They're asking me for my actual money either way, so you'd think it'd be in their interest to listen when I say what I'll pay extra for.

 

[PlasmaDam]

Also what would be if your reaction mii costume gets promoted and its tifa

also it makes no sense if Square could choose a mii costume or another chracther why geno? has square ever given a **** about geno in these past few years why choose him instead of your more marketable/just as popular characters like sora or Tifa

Personally? I think that after a while it stops being on you, the fans, to try harder and harder to 'convince' a developer to do what you want (and will give them your money for), and it starts being entirely on them to actually listen to what's being said (so that they can take your money more effectively). Obviously, you can't just toss in whoever you want without working out deals with those characters' owners, and obviously you also can't please everyone - but what you can do is try.

And if you fail, then I think it'd be a pretty decent thing to do to be transparent about the whole thing. "We've heard that you have support for this character, but unfortunately talks fell through/we couldn't come to an agreement/it didn't work out". Not even to the point of "We couldn't because of X or Y" but a simple "We tried but couldn't".

Like, we're sitting here trying to piece together what might've happened behind closed doors in regards to Geno, but why do we even have to? Why hasn't anyone official made a statement? Sakurai was perfectly fine saying "I was hoping I'd be able to put him in as far back as Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but unfortunately that never ended up materializing. " in regards to Sm4sh's costume, so why go completely silent about it this time?

And before anyone says it, this isn't an 'entitled gamer' thing at all. It's about a company/customer dynamic. They're asking me for my actual money either way, so you'd think it'd be in their interest to listen when I say what I'll pay extra for.

I mean most of the time they can't say it because of business reasons/legal reasons like if they said they can't get geno because of square people would probably pester the **** out of square

 

[RetrogamerMax]

We should do something nice for Mario Day again. I like working with the Starlight Children's Charity. Maybe we can steer conversation towards this instead of playing Sword in the Stone with changing my opinions?

You know, I don't get this. This fanbase has come together to donate money to a Children's Charity yet people attack us calling us delusional and are celebrating thinking Geno is out and are overlooking this right here. This world man, this world.

 

[PlasmaDam]

I'm not really a hard-core geno fan or a geno fan but why do so many guys hate you so much.i have met some annoying or toxic geno fans sure but for the most part. most of you seem like nice people and I dont really get the huge hate boners everyone has for you Guys

 

[AceAttorney9000]

also it makes no sense if Square could choose a mii costume or another chracther why geno? has square ever given a **** about geno in these past few years why choose him instead of your more marketable/just as popular characters like sora or Tifa

Ah yes, it is indeed true that Nintendo will go bankrupt if a fan favorite character...

... no, I can't even joke about that. I'm sorry, but if Nintendo put in Banjo-Kazooie, a character who was nowhere near as popular or profitable as Steve and Master Chief and whose closest marketable thing was "There's no new games, but you can go play the original Banjo-Kazooie games on Xbox", then why should Geno suddenly be disqualified for the same thing?

Hell, the supposed """""problem""""" of Geno not attracting new fans was arguably also a problem for Banjo, since most people clamoring for both characters were already Nintendo and Smash fans anyway, so why does Banjo get a pass while Geno gets relegated to mere costume status?

 

[PlasmaDam]

Ah yes, it is indeed true that Nintendo will go bankrupt if a fan favorite character...

... no, I can't even joke about that. I'm sorry, but if Nintendo put in Banjo-Kazooie, a character who was nowhere near as popular or profitable as Steve and Master Chief and whose closest marketable thing was "There's no new games, but you can go play the original Banjo-Kazooie games on Xbox", then why should Geno suddenly be disqualified for the same thing?

Hell, the supposed """""problem""""" of Geno not attracting new fans was arguably also a problem for Banjo, since most people clamoring for both characters were already Nintendo and Smash fans anyway, so why does Banjo get a pass while Geno gets relegated to mere costume status?

I meant square what does square have to gain from this when they can choose anyone else.actually how does the dlc process worse does nintendo ask a company for a chracther or the company ask nintendo for a chracther

 

[Louie G.]

If Lloyd or Monster Hunter become playable and bring back their Mii Costumes at the same time, then something fishy's going on.

I just wanna chime in on this one - Monster Hunter costumes will probably return either way, because they're generic armor sets and not characters. I could definitely see them returning with Monster Hunter, and it would have no real bearing on whether or not other costumes already in the game can be promoted. They're kind of a unique case. But of course if they returned on their own it'd probably be curtains for Hunter themselves.

Just felt like clarifying this because I feel like there is a very significant chance that MH gets added with these costumes, and I don't think it should be read into.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I meant square what does square have to gain from this when they can choose anyone else.actually how does the dlc process worse does nintendo ask a company for a chracther or the company ask nintendo for a chracther

Square Enix doesn't get the final say in which of their characters gets in. Nintendo and Sakurai go to them and ask, and if Sakurai's statements are correct then Nintendo generally gets the final say.

Regardless though, Square Enix gets from Geno the same thing they get from any of their characters getting into Smash: money. Geno wouldn't be any less profitable than Cloud, Hero, or Sephiroth, considering he would be a Smash DLC character at this point and almost everyone is probably gonna buy all the DLC.

 

[Paraster]

I happened upon this video today and felt a similar vibe between Isaac fans then and Geno fans now.

Honestly, I feel like the two characters are kin in a way--cult classic Nintendo characters whose fans really want them in and have had no luck as of now. How do their respective fandoms get along, or do they just ignore each other?

 

[Griselda]

I happened upon this video today and felt a similar vibe between Isaac fans then and Geno fans now.

Honestly, I feel like the two characters are kin in a way--cult classic Nintendo characters whose fans really want them in and have had no luck as of now. How do their respective fandoms get along, or do they just ignore each other?

I feel some sort of vague kinship with Isaac fans, but that started for me with seeing Shadow and Isaac get knocked out together way back then.

 

[Firox]

As both an Isaac fan and a Geno fan, I feel a strong kinship toward myself.

 

[pennylessz]

I'm not really a hard-core geno fan or a geno fan but why do so many guys hate you so much.i have met some annoying or toxic geno fans sure but for the most part. most of you seem like nice people and I dont really get the huge hate boners everyone has for you Guys

I believe that a small number of people met a Geno fan or two they didn't like, then started complaining about them. Others caught wind of this, and assumed that all Geno fans are toxic and annoying. This continued to snowball until most people who are against Geno's inclusion in Smash can simply refer to Geno's "annoying fanbase."

I have over just the last week even, seen nearly a hundred comments talking about how all Geno fans are delusional, and that others are happy that Geno fans hopes have been crushed, because we don't deserve anything. These people are projecting when speaking of how bad we are, because they're the only ones displaying this sort of behavior.

 

[ForsakenM]

I just wanna chime in on this one - Monster Hunter costumes will probably return either way, because they're generic armor sets and not characters. I could definitely see them returning with Monster Hunter, and it would have no real bearing on whether or not other costumes already in the game can be promoted. They're kind of a unique case. But of course if they returned on their own it'd probably be curtains for Hunter themselves.

Just felt like clarifying this because I feel like there is a very significant chance that MH gets added with these costumes, and I don't think it should be read into.

Actually, I think what we should be looking at is that regardless of what characters come, it's clear that all the old Mii Costumes are coming back to make another $0.75 for the companies that own them.

In other words, Lloyd's costume and the Monster hunter costumes are 100% coming back, no matter what characters are coming in the next three packs.

This doesn't mean anything for or against Lloyd or a Monster Hunter, however MH is already in a bad spot because of Rathalos being such a big deal in the base game. Once again, negotiations can change down the line, but you basically had the perfect opportunity to put a MH in the base game and negotiated for a Rathalos boss and AT instead. Add in that Dante and Phoenix Wright are leagues ahead and it really doesn't spell well for a MH.

But not's not my main point, which is that returning costumes are all at this point returning regardless of what happens, as they have now made the clear attempt to include Geno's despite his demand and the Chocobo Hat despite it being not all that important of a return all things considered.

This suggests that under the 'Everyone Is Here' Sakurai is also including all the old content he can under that banner.

This kinda answers PlasmaDam 's question, and that is that I would assume that unless things change down the line, brand new costumes are likely worse off than returning ones.

I'm not trying to gatekeep, as I've been saying I think the door is open as long as there is DLC for pretty much anyone, but if you get added in as a new costume as opposed to just an old one they already had that they barely touched up at all, it kinda shows that other characters are considered more of a priority.

 

[Geno Boost]

View attachment 296561
Out of all things today, I did not expect Geno’s creator to follow me holy ****

This person follows me too and I am actually glad this person is more open to people and fans it’s a rare to find these kind of Japanese developers.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm not really a hard-core geno fan or a geno fan but why do so many guys hate you so much.i have met some annoying or toxic geno fans sure but for the most part. most of you seem like nice people and I dont really get the huge hate boners everyone has for you Guys

Because Geno is one of the most long running popular requests in Smash history and with detractors and trolls it's always "** the boomers and their *** characters that no one wants!". Detractors and trolls take joy wasting their time on harassing and talking **** about fans of really popular characters. Like for example besides what they say about Geno fans: They call us Krystal fans horny perverts and us Shantae fans hentai lovers. If it's not a character they want, they will antagonize.

 

[Franco Geno]

Mood:

MOD Edit: Content Removed

 

[NapoleonBeezwax]

some clarification

this game has NOT returned all the mii costumes. there are still some mii costumes from smash 4 that havent returned and likely never will, for example the red shell cap, and a few others

but, most of the notable ones will return. monster hunter and lloyd mii costumes are definitely coming back, even if lloyd is playable

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Mood:View attachment 296610

Even Barney is fed up with all the **** from the detractors and trolls.

 

[Griselda]

Reposting this for reasons.

 

[Datboigeno]

I brought this comparison up months ago but my time as a Geno fan has very much mirrored my time as a fan of Skullomania of the Street fighter EX games. Both debuted within a couple years of one another, both are victims of circumstance being characters created for one-off cooperations between studios with legally split rights, and both are very popular despite their lack of appearances. Skullomania like Geno hasn’t appeared in a mainline game since the early 00s despite loads of requests from fans.

In a 2018 poll of all Street Fighter characters Skullomania got 16th beating out popular series mainstays like Fei Long, Guile, Rose, and C. Viper. SF EX is s series that has a lot of fans with people lobbying for the Arika characters to reappear and other fans saying they probably haven’t even played the game said characters are from. Sound familiar yet? And for all of SFV’s lifespan people have been asking for him as DLC. The lead developer of the SF series even addressed the popularity of getting Skullo into SFV and specifically said the rights issues are much more complicated than people assume while not straight out saying it’d never happen.

And now at the end of SFVs lifespan when people were really thinking he was a contender for final dlc character they just recently revealed he’d by a costume for another character. Hmmmmmmm sound familiar?? And you know what? I think at this point fir Geno like Skullomania it’s a combination of QA at Nintendo being averse to RPG characters reappearing, and the legal issues around SMRPG. If it weren’t for the legal red tape both of these characters would have returned by now. I think it will take Nintendo buying out the rights to SMRPG or them jointly working on an SMRPG game with SE to bring Geno back in a significant way. Until then it’s just going to take a huge effort from fans to show they love the character in the in-between years so his popularity isn’t forgotten by Nintendo.

 

[LunarisDreams]

https://twitter.com/GabeDut/status/1340519407001473024

Saw this on twitter.
This was also posted in a smash group I’m in on Facebook. Its the most wholesome comment section I’ve seen there in regards to Geno.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

Because Geno is one of the most long running popular requests in Smash history and with detractors and trolls it's always "** the boomers and their characters that no one wants!". Detractors and trolls take joy wasting their time on harassing and talking * about fans of really popular characters. Like for example besides what they say about Geno fans: They call us Krystal fans horny perverts and us Shantae fans hentai lovers. If it's not a character they want, they will antagonize.

funniest part? i became a geno fan in 2008, and im 20 years old, im younger than the game, so woul that class me as a boomer?

 

[Urso_Ornitier]

funniest part? i became a geno fan in 2008, and im 20 years old, im younger than the game, so woul that class me as a boomer?

I was six when SMRPG came out and I’m still not a boomer. People just use “boomer” as a generic insult now. It’s actually a pet peeve of mine. (People using an insult without knowing what the word or definition actually means.)

It most cases, it makes me feel embarrassed for the person trying to do the insulting.

Edit: Correction, I was 5. I turned 6 later that year!

 

[Commander_Alph]

Because Geno is one of the most long running popular requests in Smash history and with detractors and trolls it's always "** the boomers and their characters that no one wants!". Detractors and trolls take joy wasting their time on harassing and talking * about fans of really popular characters. Like for example besides what they say about Geno fans: They call us Krystal fans horny perverts and us Shantae fans hentai lovers. If it's not a character they want, they will antagonize.

Don't mind me, I just want to express my experience with this kind of A-hole everywhere. It's funny that people thought every character have to be cool, hip and modern to get into Smash. Although I am not a one of those supporter that you mentioned it's not something uncommon that if you support a character that is a girl and look like an anime chances are you will be called a lolicon and a pervert. Trust me, this happened everytime the moment I support Reimu and I can't handle how entitled they are for generalizing an entire fandom like calling them """an old cranky boomer who hates character that is relevant""" and """a sad lonely pervert who only likes it for the boobs and butts and is a total simp""".

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ah yes, it is indeed true that Nintendo will go bankrupt if a fan favorite character...

... no, I can't even joke about that. I'm sorry, but if Nintendo put in Banjo-Kazooie, a character who was nowhere near as popular or profitable as Steve and Master Chief and whose closest marketable thing was "There's no new games, but you can go play the original Banjo-Kazooie games on Xbox", then why should Geno suddenly be disqualified for the same thing?

Hell, the supposed """""problem""""" of Geno not attracting new fans was arguably also a problem for Banjo, since most people clamoring for both characters were already Nintendo and Smash fans anyway, so why does Banjo get a pass while Geno gets relegated to mere costume status?

I definitely agree with this. I think people cling too much to whether or not characters "make sense" and/or "are fair." Somebody asked me to provide proof that I heard and talked about Sephiroth in 2018 and 2019 and, going through my posts, I was wrong on a lot of levels:

"Why would Final Fantasy, let alone Final Fantasy VII get multiple stages; that makes no sense."

"Why would Sephiroth be the first unique secondary third party character; that makes no sense."

"Why would Final Fantasy cut in front of Metal Gear, Sonic, Megaman, and Street Fighter for more representation? That doesn't make sense/wouldn't be fair."

Spoilers: they didn't care about any of this despite a good portion of the fanbase agreeing with my talking points. They are going to add whoever they want. They don't care if its fair or even "logical." I've been warning people about it for two years now but the day is going to come when there's a Mii costume and/or assist trophy promotion and it's going to be "unfair" because they obviously can't do this for everyone. By principle, Issac making the jump would be "unfair" to all the other AT fans, just in the same vein as promoting Heihachi or Travis would be "unfair" to the numerous others. If I really want to be blunt, Min Min was chosen over a thousand other candidates and before her reveal nobody was like "mmm, yes, Min Min's the most logical and deserving spirit promotion of the entire game." It just happened because they wanted it to and it's going to keep happening whether people like it or not.

 

[MintPepsi]

Not much of a Geno guy but I just came in here to tell y'all that you should look on the bright side. Think of the Geno mii as a victory, not a loss. In any other world, Geno would never have gotten into the game in any form. The fact that he's represented at all is a massive victory and it's all because you guys kept supporting him. Yes I'm sure it sucks he isn't playable but his mii is proof that your support reached Nintendo and Sakurai. May not have been the outcome you guys wanted but this is far better than what he would've gotten if you guys didn't keep voicing your support.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Welp.
Ngl , the last few days has been kinda hard for me.

I'm not even angry , I'm just... Still trying to process it.

I still stand by what I said in my last post , Geno is in no capacity "dead". A character's death is when they're forgotten , and this is not going to be Geno's case. Really , there's not going to be someone else like Geno anytime soon , few characters have such a strong power ; reuniting people together.

Some people will take a break from Smash , wich is understandable , daily speculation can be extremely draining. But I still think that Geno will be remembered by them.

I really want to stress this out , I'm 100% sure that Geno isn't going to be forgotten like that.

Don't give up guys , we didn't lost , really , we didn't. I'm not trying to say "Geno is still going to get in !" rather... Look at what the community made. Wich requested characters has this many fan-mods , fan movesets , fan-arts supporting him for smash , this much of a cult following , this much sheer entouthiasm surrounding them , despise being so obscure in the grand scheme of things ?
As cheesy as it sound , we made this small character into something so much more special than it's original creators anticipated. And I find that truly inspiring.

Officialy , this may be all he has...

But in our heart , he's so much , so much more...

 

[drewber2635]

I was actually about to suggest something like this. As a community we really need to set our sights away from Ultimate now regardless of whether we believe Geno can still come or not. Everything for Ultimate is already decided us focusing our energy there won't beget us any tangible results. So how do we nag Nintendo now? How do we make our voices heard? How do we shove our opinions vigorously down the earholes of those who must hear them? These are the questions we need to be asking. Especially that last one. What's the next step for this community? How do we switch gears and apply our passion and energy towards everything SMRPG not limited to just Smash?

We need to support Geno with our wallets. Any chance we can get. Nintendo unfortunately doesn't really care about fan demand, they just care about whatever makes them money. If it was up to Sakurai completely we would already have Geno guaranteed but as stated before Nintendo picked all of the DLC (which is complete horse s***). So buy the Mii costume. Even if you despise it, buy it. If they ever release SMRPG on the SNES collection, play the hell out of it. Buy anything that has to do with Geno.

 

[Burb]

I'm pretty sure the actual biggest problem Geno faces is Miyamoto's aversion to original characters from the RPG sub-series. I don't think he minds them making cameos and minor appearances, but a fully playable role as a representative of the Mario series might just be asking for too much.

Yes, this is Sakurai's game, but Mario is Miyamoto's franchise, and there's been many, many instances where Sakurai has mentioned developers from the original games having a great deal of creative control over their characters within Smash.

In a nutshell, it's similar to what Ridley supporters had to deal with, but instead of Sakurai needing to change his mind, it's Miyamoto. And he's a lot less likely to bend the knee to fan demand than Sakurai was.

 

[Icewolff92]

We need to support Geno with our wallets. Any chance we can get. Nintendo unfortunately doesn't really care about fan demand, they just care about whatever makes them money. If it was up to Sakurai completely we would already have Geno guaranteed but as stated before Nintendo picked all of the DLC (which is complete horse s***). So buy the Mii costume. Even if you despise it, buy it. If they ever release SMRPG on the SNES collection, play the hell out of it. Buy anything that has to do with Geno.

If we are ever getting SMRPG on Switch, my bet is on a port and not arriving on the NOS. I can´t recall a single Square game on the NOS, but instead, they have ported over a ton of older tittles instead.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to echo back to something I said previously because a lot of the comments I see here are remaining blind to relatively simple concepts.

Let's look at Mr. Lloyd Irving. Right now, he's in the situation that Geno was in only a few short days ago, and has been in this situation for the entire first fighter pass. Now, granted, Geno's costume returning casts doubt on Lloyd in some people's eyes, and that's fine. Maybe even by design. But let's again for a moment assume that say... Challenger Pack 9 is Lloyd Irving.

Why would you believe that his costume wouldn't come with him? It's worth mentioning that I assumed that Geno's costume would return with Geno. In this way, the argument "Nintendo wouldn't charge 75 cents for a costume just to later make you pay 5.99 for a character."seems silly to me.

Dude, they cut Lucas and Roy and sold them back to us for 5.99 and they came with absolutely nothing else. They made it sound like the only way you get Mewtwo was by buying both the 3DS and Wii U version of Smash 4 and registering them on Club Nintendo, only to later say "lol he's 5.99". This is a bit of a tangent but Smash 4 had some of the most exploitative DLC in a retail Nintendo game and I guess we're just going to ignore that because here in 2020 Nintendo is above all of that because now instead of giving us Melee and Brawl characters back for 1/10 the price of the full game, they're giving us mystery grab bags at a 5 dollar discount and we're promised a stage and music! Boy!

Spoiler: about Mii Costumes

Anyway... I stated a long time ago that Mii Costumes are not just consolation prizes. If we weren't so busy being offended by them, we'd see them as funny nods at how easily these characters can be called "mascots", and, more than that, how they're a way to represent the character as an easy to adopt template. Mii fighters are, by design, easy to pick up and play. They're not as easy to pick up as Mario or as easy to survive with as Kirby or Pit, but I think Sakurai would likely consider them beginner characters since they are watered down versions of other fighters, and to top that off, you're allowed to pick their specials to make them more of something you like. Template characters with variable looks have a place, and while that may be debatable in the competitive sense, for casual players this is a boon.

As an example: K. Rool. He's in the game, so why did they bring his Mii costume back? As a fighter, he's slow and focuses heavily on zoning (being lame and fishing for cheese is what most people call this), so maybe he's too complex or your friend group has straight up banned him for being miserable to fight against. Play the Brawler and they can't possibly complain. Meta Knight's mask is in this category too - maybe you like repping Meta Knight but you hate that his jab is immediately a rapid jab and his true jab is his ftilt. Maybe you don't like weighing negative kilograms and getting launched for miles at the lightest touch - just put that Meta Knight mask on your Mii and have at it.

This logic can be applied to every single character who has a costume, and if you step back from being a fan of the characters and feeling slighted, ignored, and insulted by their inclusion, you see them for what they are: something to help fans of the character represent that character when they're playing around and enjoying Smash for what it was meant to be enjoyed for - setting up fantasy fights where Link avenges Cloud and defeats Sephiroth while Pichu watches helplessly. Oh, and a guy wearing Captain Falcon's helmet and Samus' varia suit is there too but we don't talk abut him.

So, going back to Lloyd. By my logic, it's acceptable to bring his costume back from a gameplay perspective because Lloyd would likely be a combo focused character with directional inputs on pretty much all of his moves, producing an incredibly large move pool from his normals alone, not to mention his specials. Because of this gameplay difference, asking 75 cents for the costume also isn't a stretch of the imagination or "scummy" practice of Nintendo, who, just so we can hammer the point home, is not above scummy tactics in the first place. So how does this relate to Geno? Why wouldn't they bring Geno's costume back with Geno?

Three options:

1. The dream is dead lmao checkmate genofriends


2. Surprise factor. I've suggested it, Forsaken has suggested it, others have suggested it. It's a possibility and that's what's up.

3. Geno is standalone DLC who doesn't come with a stage or a Mii wave, maybe not even with music, akin to early Smash 4 DLC. This is an unlikely situation since the only characters to not come with a stage and music were returning veterans, but who knows. It would not be surprising for another Mario character to end up in a Piranha Plant situation when the franchise has 100+ music tracks and a lion's share of stages.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I just wanna chime in on this one - Monster Hunter costumes will probably return either way, because they're generic armor sets and not characters. I could definitely see them returning with Monster Hunter, and it would have no real bearing on whether or not other costumes already in the game can be promoted. They're kind of a unique case. But of course if they returned on their own it'd probably be curtains for Hunter themselves.

Just felt like clarifying this because I feel like there is a very significant chance that MH gets added with these costumes, and I don't think it should be read into.

This is actually a really good point to make because that means, in actuality, Lloyd is now the only actual "character" left. I personally want Lloyd but the elephant in the room is that he's definitely farther down the list on characters that have already been Mii costumed:

Of 45,000 counted votes, he's not even in the top 61 here:

SSB4Dojo's Smash Poll Data Consolidation

Global Character Results All Data was taken during the summer of 2015 during the ballots. These would be the characters Sakurai had knowledge of creating the Smash U Character List For all data shown on this global page, it is a combination of 1/2 US/Euro percentage and 1/2 Japan percentage To ...

docs.google.com

From this major poll in 2018, he ranks 4th:

r/smashbros - [Day 34/34 | Results!] Randomized Smash Ultimate Poll!

5,380 votes and 746 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

From this major poll from 2019: he's ranked 41st:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

In this major poll from 2020, he's ranked 23rd:

Mega Smash Poll Ultimate: The characters YOU want for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Fighter Pass 2!

It’s time for the first results from our Mega Smash Poll Ultimate edition! We conducted this poll back in March 2020 and asked the community a number of questions about how they play Super Sm…

sourcegaming.info

By the Smash fanbase's logic, if he made the jump, it would be "unfair" so we're now at an impasse that any Mii costume promotion would step on toes in some way. Same goes for Assist Trophies. Some people have been like "well, what if they did someone 'conflict free' like Chibi Robo or Saki" but, like I've showed, the demand for these characters is significantly further down the list than Geno, Lloyd, Heihachi and even characters like Travis and Zero. Basically we've reached this point where if literally any Mii costume or assist trophy is promoted, it's going to be "unfair" or "scummy" on some basis.

 

[Vector Victor]

I believe that a small number of people met a Geno fan or two they didn't like, then started complaining about them. Others caught wind of this, and assumed that all Geno fans are toxic and annoying. This continued to snowball until most people who are against Geno's inclusion in Smash can simply refer to Geno's "annoying fanbase."

I have over just the last week even, seen nearly a hundred comments talking about how all Geno fans are delusional, and that others are happy that Geno fans hopes have been crushed, because we don't deserve anything. These people are projecting when speaking of how bad we are, because they're the only ones displaying this sort of behavior.

I've noticed that people turn on this fanbase absurdly quickly if the Geno fanbase doesn't practically praise every other character in existence. If they show even the tiniest dislike to another character or even just state how they aren't a fan to that character, people act like Geno fans literally stabbed someone in the back so they declare Geno the most toxic fanbase ever, which compared to the flatout awful things the detractors have said is a downright laughable stance. One user said that they didn't like a potential character, and literally 10 minutes later another user who never set foot into this thread before had to run in and chastise that post and say that the Mii costume is what we deserve for our toxic behavior.

Basically, I think several people just tolerate this fanbase's existence as long as the Geno fanbase doesn't step out of line, which apparently means not having any degree of a negative stance on any other character. Even a couple Geno fans surprisingly easily side with the detractors in the toxic claims because of what was said about a character they liked.

 

[Icewolff92]

This is actually a really good point to make because that means, in actuality, Lloyd is now the only actual "character" left. I personally want Lloyd but the elephant in the room is that he's definitely farther down the list on characters that have already been Mii costumed:

Of 45,000 counted votes, he's not even in the top 61 here:

SSB4Dojo's Smash Poll Data Consolidation

Global Character Results All Data was taken during the summer of 2015 during the ballots. These would be the characters Sakurai had knowledge of creating the Smash U Character List For all data shown on this global page, it is a combination of 1/2 US/Euro percentage and 1/2 Japan percentage To ...

docs.google.com

From this major poll in 2018, he ranks 4th:

r/smashbros - [Day 34/34 | Results!] Randomized Smash Ultimate Poll!

5,380 votes and 746 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

From this major poll from 2019: he's ranked 41st:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

In this major poll from 2020, he's ranked 23rd:

Mega Smash Poll Ultimate: The characters YOU want for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Fighter Pass 2!

It’s time for the first results from our Mega Smash Poll Ultimate edition! We conducted this poll back in March 2020 and asked the community a number of questions about how they play Super Sm…

sourcegaming.info

By the Smash fanbase's logic, if he made the jump, it would be "unfair" so we're now at an impasse that any Mii costume promotion would step on toes in some way. Same goes for Assist Trophies. Some people have been like "well, what if they did someone 'conflict free' like Chibi Robo or Saki" but, like I've showed, the demand for these characters is significantly further down the list than Geno, Lloyd, Heihachi and even characters like Travis and Zero. Basically we've reached this point where if literally any Mii costume or assist trophy is promoted, it's going to be "unfair" or "scummy" on some basis.

Watch Loyd be a Mii and the "Tale´s rep" is Yuri

 

[Loliko YnT]

If we are ever getting SMRPG on Switch, my bet is on a port and not arriving on the NOS. I can´t recall a single Square game on the NOS, but instead, they have ported over a ton of older tittles instead.

I'm with you.

Also , at this point , I prefer to give money toward SE if they offer me a simple port with a few QoL changes , rather than pay for a poor online subscription and SNES games I can't even play offline.
If I want to play SMRPG on a portable screen in my bed , I'm just going to boot up my Wii U.

Talking about that , probably going to do my third playthrough of SMRPG during the holidays. Still sticking to the Mario/Mallow/Geno team , just like my second playthrough.
... Oh , and I might as well defeat Culex this time. I still didn't do it lol

 

[Icewolff92]

I'm with you.

Also , at this point , I prefer to give money toward SE if they offer me a simple port with a few QoL changes , rather than pay for a poor online subscription and SNES games I can't even play offline.
If I want to play SMRPG on a portable screen in my bed , I'm just going to boot up my Wii U.

Talking about that , probably going to do my third playthrough of SMRPG during the holidays. Still sticking to the Mario/Mallow/Geno team , just like my second playthrough.
... Oh , and I might as well defeat Culex this time. I still didn't do it lol

Heck, it might be better for us IF they would port it over, rather then just add it on NOS consider "voting with wallet" is the only type of things operations really listening too.

PS - The fact that Switch doesn´t have a proper VC is a downright joke.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Watch Loyd be a Mii and the "Tale´s rep" is Yuri

I'm still very confident in Lloyd. I did this write up in the Lloyd thread back in August (since it's one of like... two non-Geno threads I haven't been forcibly kicked out of) why Symphonia is not only special to the Tales series but Nintendo too:

The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - fall down seven times, stand up eight (Mii costume confirmed)

Whelp, no Tales of news in the mini direct. Not going to lie, that entire mini direct was kinda underwhelming except for the ending. Any ways now we should set our sights on this. https://www.thegamer.com/bandai-namco-stream-gundam-pac-man/ Bandai Namco is hosting a stream to show off games in...

smashboards.com

 

[Vector Victor]

For years, people were wondering which side is the hold out for Geno anything: is it Nintendo or Square holding him back? It was assumed Square due to how infamously bad Cloud was handled (2 songs, one stage, no spirits) and people concluded Square was being difficult. However, with Sephiroth's content being fixed, more songs, spirits and another stage and Sakurai discussing the issue with the songs being more logical than just stingy, it might not be Square.

Then you look at Nintendo from just this year and how bad they have been with PR. These weird cut off dates for the Mario games in March. How unbothered they are over one of their major RPG series falling to the wayside. The sudden copyright strike fits they are going into on YouTube. Their tonedeaf responses to fans. Their focus in using color gem baby versions of characters in Mario Kart. And damning of all, their instance to wash down their supporting cast in their other RPG series and force their characters into cookie cutter designs.

So, yea, just based off Nintendo's mindset this year, I feel they are the ones holding Geno back, not Square. And not just Geno. ANY Mario RPG fan favorite.

 

[Icewolff92]

I'm still very confident in Lloyd. I did this write up in the Lloyd thread back in August (since it's one of like... two non-Geno threads I haven't been forcibly kicked out of) why Symphonia is not only special to the Tales series but Nintendo too:

The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - fall down seven times, stand up eight (Mii costume confirmed)

Whelp, no Tales of news in the mini direct. Not going to lie, that entire mini direct was kinda underwhelming except for the ending. Any ways now we should set our sights on this. https://www.thegamer.com/bandai-namco-stream-gundam-pac-man/ Bandai Namco is hosting a stream to show off games in...

smashboards.com

First of all "-Heihachi is costumed again, arguably taking Tekken out of the running for Namco reps. "... I guess you are taking that point back since you stand by that Geno still has a chance?

And Yuri is a much more popular request from the Japanese fanbase (which is the one Nintendo leans towards). Just because Sakurai says he is "the obvious choice" doesn´t mean that Loyd will happen as a character if Tales get included. Heck, if the pattern of returning Mii Costumes is anything to go by, Loyd will meet that faith too.

 

[drewber2635]

For years, people were wondering which side is the hold out for Geno anything: is it Nintendo or Square holding him back? It was assumed Square due to how infamously bad Cloud was handled (2 songs, one stage, no spirits) and people concluded Square was being difficult. However, with Sephiroth's content being fixed, more songs, spirits and another stage and Sakurai discussing the issue with the songs being more logical than just stingy, it might not be Square.

Then you look at Nintendo from just this year and how bad they have been with PR. These weird cut off dates for the Mario games in March. How unbothered they are over one of their major RPG series falling to the wayside. The sudden copyright strike fits they are going into on YouTube. Their tonedeaf responses to fans. Their focus in using color gem baby versions of characters in Mario Kart. And damning of all, their instance to wash down their supporting cast in their other RPG series and force their characters into cookie cutter designs.

So, yea, just based off Nintendo's mindset this year, I feel they are the ones holding Geno back, not Square. And not just Geno. ANY Mario RPG fan favorite.

I agree with this. Nintendo have been acting like senile delinquents this whole year. And when most of these old Japanese dudes who run the company just care about profits, all hell breaks lose. Also, do you think they are still butt hurt about what happened between Square and Nintendo back in the late 90s? How Square ditched them for Sony since Nintendo refused to migrate to CDs. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some old grudge lingering around from that.