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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Tree Gelbman

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I feel they would give a 2nd non echo Street fighter rep to Akuma as he would generate more hype also a villain from a fighting game which we don’t have yet
Akuma would hype only hardcore gamers.

Chun Li is recognizable to even casual gamers who've only briefly played Street Fighter.

She'd sell FAR more than Akuma would for something like Smash.
 
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Powerman293

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Something I want to remind the thread real quick is that coincidentally the 25th Anniversary of SMRPG is March 9th and Mario Day is March 10th so it's definitely a golden opportunity to plan something good to celebrate both. We don't have to go pen and paper right this second but in my opinion, if we want to get something good set up by these days, we should start seriously discussing it by mid January. Benefit of this too is that people can enjoy Christmas and New Years and return some much needed levity to the thread for a couple of weeks.
If Geno actually becomes a playable fighter after his costume came back, I will be EXTREMELY shocked. I can't think of a good reason to have it come back with Sephiroth but not Geno himself if he's still coming.
 

Morgana J. Cat

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Honestly I always hated this account’s corny memes and idiotic takes but some of the stuff on this thread is just flat out bullcrap, specially the part where this idiot says Geno is nowhere near as big as Ridley, Banjo and their precious K. Rool when it comes to extremely requested characters.
 

pennylessz

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I disagree with that statement so much it okay if you dont like the dlc or smash ultimate your allowed to think that but to say that people didnt want most of the dlc/pander to me people who dont play smash is stupid.Hero was a super requested pick and people wanted him since forever sephiroth was highly requested too since cloud the only one i can really call a shill pick is byleth.and most of what your saying about the dlc appealing to people who dont play smash isnt true do you really think terry/min min fans even though wanted are gonna come out in droves to buy a switch?tldr its okay to not like or hate the dlc picks but to say its pandering to people who dont play smash and ****ting on the "devoted smash fanbase just because you dont like them is stupid
I'm not gonna deny that people enjoy or even wanted Sephiroth. However, as someone who has been around Smash speculation since the DLC for Smash 4, I saw almost nobody requesting him.

It seems to me that most people assumed a second FF7 character wasn't going to happen. I have no doubt I would've seen more requests had people thought this was possible, but even among most SE fans, it's largely agreed they should've represented another FE game if they were going to add another rep from the series.
 

Paraspikey

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Honestly I always hated this account’s corny memes and idiotic takes but some of the stuff on this thread is just flat out bullcrap, specially the part where this idiot says Geno is nowhere near as big as Ridley, Banjo and their precious K. Rool when it comes to extremely requested characters.
Sakurai talked about the character... due to his campaign and support...
What is this guy even on about?
 
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pennylessz

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Honestly I always hated this account’s corny memes and idiotic takes but some of the stuff on this thread is just flat out bullcrap, specially the part where this idiot says Geno is nowhere near as big as Ridley, Banjo and their precious K. Rool when it comes to extremely requested characters.
You know. It's kind of dumb that K. Rool got into Smash, but he's absence from everything else.
I was hoping they'd revive him, but I'm not seeing it. Maybe if DK ever gets another entry.
 

Fatmanonice

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If Geno actually becomes a playable fighter after his costume came back, I will be EXTREMELY shocked. I can't think of a good reason to have it come back with Sephiroth but not Geno himself if he's still coming.
And I understand that's now the opinion of a vast majority of the thread. It's been three days and I feel like the regulars of the thread are okay with the differences. Nobody's like "ah man, I can't be friends with you anymore over this" or anything like that so it's an impasse but on positive terms. It's just better going forward if whether Geno was totally deconfirmed or not is not the focus. Like I said before the presentation, the Isaac thread has the right idea: don't worry about it, continue being a community. Let's rechannel the energy to other stuff so we're not locked in debates for the foreseeable future. I'm tired, we're all tired, but the situation unfolded a thousand times better than I thought it would. Cheers all around. Let's use the fact that we survived a soft deconfirmation and didn't kill each other or go scorched earth on the thread as something to unite the thread and go forward because, ****in' A, this year has sucked on sooooooo many levels and we all deserve the break, amirite comrades?
 

Genoxys

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I had a dream where Geno was confirmed just now. I was at a big Nintendo convention and they revealed Sephiroth in the same way. I left the room after seeing the reveal. Afterwards, everyone started yelling about smash and indicated that another character had been revealed. I googled it and saw an article that said "In a surprise twist of events, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate adds Geno."
 

S1itchey

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Honestly I always hated this account’s corny memes and idiotic takes but some of the stuff on this thread is just flat out bullcrap, specially the part where this idiot says Geno is nowhere near as big as Ridley, Banjo and their precious K. Rool when it comes to extremely requested characters.
So sakurai gives geno a mii costume and mentions how he wants him in the game because of the large campaign that geno has and there saying the only reason he has a large following is because sakurai talked about wanting him... because of his large following. Wat?
 
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Dan

Smash Lord
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K. Rool took higher than Geno in the ballot... that simple. They're not looking at the ballot anymore. I voted for Ridley. If there was another ballot I'm voting Geno, and he would probably be in the top 5.

It would've been nice if for Ultimate they went pure ballot.
 
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Slime Scholar

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Honestly I always hated this account’s corny memes and idiotic takes but some of the stuff on this thread is just flat out bullcrap, specially the part where this idiot says Geno is nowhere near as big as Ridley, Banjo and their precious K. Rool when it comes to extremely requested characters.
I don't use the word "cringe" often but man, the fact that whoever runs this account could say something like this without a shred of embarrassment gives me chills. The Smash fanbase's online culture of needing to "campaign" for your character has always been obnoxious. It sucks that Geno as a fighter isn't happening, but make no mistake that his fans have been heard, and that the Mii costume is proof of that. Likewise, I'm sure K. Rool, Ridley and Banjo were recognized without the help of these dumb twitter accounts begging for attention.
 

Fatmanonice

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Honestly I always hated this account’s corny memes and idiotic takes but some of the stuff on this thread is just flat out bullcrap, specially the part where this idiot says Geno is nowhere near as big as Ridley, Banjo and their precious K. Rool when it comes to extremely requested characters.
Given the history of K. Rool, the irony here is pretty thick. Up until he got in, the history of K. Rool really wasn't that different from Geno's. A lot of the same problems, a lot of the same criticisms from outside the fanbase, etc. I'd like to think that if the roles were reversed we wouldn't specifically single out a fanbase like this but it is what it is. Honestly, I think this is the first time I've seen someone flat out tell a fanbase "things turned out this way because you didn't try hard enough" and it's kind of weird to try to shame an entire fanbase like this. Again, the irony is pretty thick since K. Rool was a "never ever" only two years ago.
 

Dan

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You know, maybe this person is right. Did anyone here not vote for Geno? I voted Ridley, and probably would've voted K. Rool after him.
 

MashedPotatoUltimate

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Messages
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You know, maybe this person is right. Did anyone here not vote for Geno? I voted Ridley, and probably would've voted K. Rool after him.
I’ll be honest I voted multiple characters with different devices in fear that multiple votes on the same device wouldnt count lol

I voted Geno on my Phone
King K Rool on my 3DS Browser
and Rayman on my Wii U Browser
 
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Fatmanonice

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You know, maybe this person is right. Did anyone here not vote for Geno? I voted Ridley, and probably would've voted K. Rool after him.
Sakurai heavily implied that, like K. Rool, Geno was a Mii costume because of demand:

Sakurai: Geno was actually a character I wanted to include as a fighter. He has a gun for an arm, and just seems like he'd fit absolutely perfectly into Smash. I was hoping I'd be able to put him in as far back as Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but unfortunately that never ended up materializing.

Interviewer: And that's why you included him as a Mii Costume this time around?

Sakurai: Yes. He's incredibly popular. Even though he's an old character, we keep getting loads of votes and requests for us to put him in the game. Even though he still isn't in as a playable fighter, I made sure he'd be in as a Mii costume so his fans would at least feel that they got something.
 

Powerman293

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And I understand that's now the opinion of a vast majority of the thread. It's been three days and I feel like the regulars of the thread are okay with the differences. Nobody's like "ah man, I can't be friends with you anymore over this" or anything like that so it's an impasse but on positive terms. It's just better going forward if whether Geno was totally deconfirmed or not is not the focus. Like I said before the presentation, the Isaac thread has the right idea: don't worry about it, continue being a community. Let's rechannel the energy to other stuff so we're not locked in debates for the foreseeable future. I'm tired, we're all tired, but the situation unfolded a thousand times better than I thought it would. Cheers all around. Let's use the fact that we survived a soft deconfirmation and didn't kill each other or go scorched earth on the thread as something to unite the thread and go forward because, ****in' A, this year has sucked on sooooooo many levels and we all deserve the break, amirite comrades?
Yeah, I am surprised at the civility in this thread after it happened. And I assume the differences are the chances of Geno's likelihood still? I still think he can happen, albeit under somewhat specific but unlikely circumstances of an Ultimate port to the next console.

Also what does "Soft deconfirmation" even mean? I assume you mean it compared to an Assist Trophy which is pretty hard.
 

Dan

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Sakurai heavily implied that, like K. Rool, Geno was a Mii costume because of demand:

Sakurai: Geno was actually a character I wanted to include as a fighter. He has a gun for an arm, and just seems like he'd fit absolutely perfectly into Smash. I was hoping I'd be able to put him in as far back as Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but unfortunately that never ended up materializing.

Interviewer: And that's why you included him as a Mii Costume this time around?

Sakurai: Yes. He's incredibly popular. Even though he's an old character, we keep getting loads of votes and requests for us to put him in the game. Even though he still isn't in as a playable fighter, I made sure he'd be in as a Mii costume so his fans would at least feel that they got something.
Well the question is where did Geno place on the ballot? I think he could potentially win a new one, but I would guess he placed like tenth.
 

bardbowman

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You know, maybe this person is right. Did anyone here not vote for Geno? I voted Ridley, and probably would've voted K. Rool after him.
The problem with that person’s argument isn’t that Geno supporters didn’t vote for other fighters in the ballot...It’s his assumption that a character’s chances to become playable start and end with the ballot.

Geno’s fanbase was alive and well long before the ballot, and it’s only become stronger after the ballot. That kind of longevity and persistence does far more for a character’s chances than a one-time ballot.
 

Fatmanonice

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Yeah, I am surprised at the civility in this thread after it happened. And I assume the differences are the chances of Geno's likelihood still? I still think he can happen, albeit under somewhat specific but unlikely circumstances of an Ultimate port to the next console.

Also what does "Soft deconfirmation" even mean? I assume you mean it compared to an Assist Trophy which is pretty hard.
Soft deconfirmation: Things like Mii costumes and assist trophies because it's never been officially said they deconfirm. More or less stuff that a good chunk of the fanbase believes deconfirms.

Hard deconfirmation: Sakurai or the creators/owners of a character flat out say that they aren't happening.
 

Genoxys

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“They can” doesn’t mean they will

does that mean Travis touchdown is coming? Bomberman? Hell, why not tifa?
Yeah, this is the best point for Geno's deconfirmation. Now Geno has to compete with Travis touchdown, tifa, Barret, heihachi, zero, protoman, sooo many characters that Geno had a leg up on that he is now on the same page as. It isn't great.
 

YsDisciple

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What I'm hoping for now leading up to March 2021 is that we hopefully get an announcement for a new Super Mario RPG game (by RPG it could be a revisit/remake to the SNES original, or a new Mario & Luigi).
 

Powerman293

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Yeah, this is the best point for Geno's deconfirmation. Now Geno has to compete with Travis touchdown, tifa, Barret, heihachi, zero, protoman, sooo many characters that Geno had a leg up on that he is now on the same page as. It isn't great.
It might even be possible that Assist Trophy characters are ahead of Geno now in chances given the time distance between bae game and the 2nd half of FP2.
 

drewber2635

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Still think Geno can happen. Very unlikely but still can. No premium Mii costume, just a slightly modified version of the Smash 4 one. Cacomallow still hasn't been deconfirmed. I could see Sakurai making this the ULTIMATE fake-out and have Geno as the last character. The Mii costume is only $0.75 and other fighters do have Mii fighter costume options, so I don't think it would be a big deal to introduce him months after his old Mii costume returned
 

Fatmanonice

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Well the question is where did Geno place on the ballot? I think he could potentially win a new one, but I would guess he placed like tenth.
The results were never released but I feel the sample size of this data collection gives us a good idea how things went down. 45,000 votes is nothing to sneeze at and, from this, it's very heavily implied Geno did extremely well:


Quick takeaways:

13th overall

10th "newcomer"

6th third party characters
 

pinshadow

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EDUIXXoUUAEFcE8.jpg
So it’s been a few days, and most of the clowns have left, so now is as good of a time as any to actually lay out my full thoughts on the matter. Geno is, once again, a mii costume. At least for the time being, it seems like the past five years of support since the original costume, and the 10+ years before that have led to...exactly what we got last time. Not even a music track.
Personally, I’m conflicted. On one hand, I’m in the somewhat unique position that Super Smash Brothers Ultimate has been undeniably, even bewilderingly, FANTASTIC for me and me specifically. I’ve made my distaste of basically every aspect of Smash 4 clear in the past, and Ultimate fixed almost every issue I had with that game. The combat is faster and far more impactful, many characters who desperately needed reworks got at least some attention, the art style is exactly what I expect from Smash compared to the oversaturation of Smash 4, stages were remade rather than shamelessly ported, and the music is sublime compared to the weird artificial medley hellhole of Smash 4. We even got a Hazard Toggle!

And THE ROSTER, just DAMN. In Smash 4, I got two characters I really wanted, Mega Man and Little Mac, with the latter being the most unfun, poorly designed kit I’ve EVER seen in a fighting game. I don’t dislike the rest of the choices, but I’d be lying if I said I’d be mad if say, Palutena, Corrin, or Greninja were cut from the roster. With Smash Ultimate on the other hand, I got FOUR of my most wanted characters, Simon, King K. Rool, Hero, and Banjo and Kazooie. They all look and play fantastic, they got crazy ass CG trailers, KING K. ROOL HAS AN AMIIBO GUYS, WHAT YEAR IS IT? Oh, and Richter is here too. And Ridley and Dark Samus, two characters I never really went out of my way to root for despite being a Metroid fan because they felt like such logical and inevitable inclusions that they were going to happen regardless? They’re both in too. And everyone else got brought back as well, good lord.

So, with all that said, is it really reasonable for me to be disappointed when I don’t get ANOTHER character I want? Maybe, but let me make some points. I know this phrasing gets memed on quite a bit, but Geno is absolutely, genuinely, the LAST character I actively hoped would be in this game. They could add nothing but him, cancel all the rest of the DLC, and I’d still be perfectly content and satisfied wholesale with this roster. I obviously want other characters like Doomguy, Master Chief, and Crash, but those are hopes, I’m not going to be writing an overly long ramble like this if they don’t get in, you know what I mean?

If Geno was just some far off pipe dream that only I wanted, this ultra personal pick specifically for me, then I wouldn’t care as much. But, this thread, the fact he was trending on twitter AGAIN when the costume was revealed, the fact HE HAS A MII COSTUME AT ALL, is blatant proof that just isn’t the case. People care about this character, about this wonderful game called Super Mario RPG. Being blunt, the reason I’m so for the idea of fan picks at this point is that I WANT people to get the same feeling of satisfaction I had with characters like K.Rool and Banjo. They’ve proven they can listen before, there’s no reason they can’t again.
You ever write a full page or two of something and then decide to rewrite it all because of ONE THING someone else mentioned? Yeah, that's me right now.

Honestly, when looking over Kremling Kampaigner's twitter thread, what annoys me the most isn't him ****ing on the fanbase for "not trying hard enough", or being bandwagoners because Geno looked cool, it's actually the three words he uses to describe Super Mario RPG. "random Mario spin-off" Excuse me? Mario's Picross is a random spin-off. Mario's Pinball Land is a random spin-off. Mario Sports Mix is a random spin-off.

Super Mario RPG, is NOT a random spin-off. Just on it's own, all I really think I have to say is that it's the entire reason any of THESE
Create_a_Mario_RPG_Games_Tierlist_2020_Tier_List_TierMaker.png

games exist, and did I mention its a masterpiece in it's own right? Seriously, imagining Mario without the RPG's is... well certainly possible I guess, but it's sure as hell A LOT less interesting. It's really undersold just how much character and life these games actually add to Mario's otherwise sterile world. Many of the games on this list are widely considered classics, are for good reason.

And yet this downplaying of Super Mario RPG's legacy and impact is strangely prevalent. The way it see it, the reason is actually pretty simple, the game is still stuck in corporate limbo. The fact is, Nintendo and Square have been giving it the cold shoulder longer than I've been alive. "Oh well Geno and Mallow don't matter because they're only in one game!" They're only in one game because Square and Nintendo split over the N64 and neither side really CAN use them without the other. Super Mario RPG is the unwanted stepchild neither really wants anything to do with.

Though I will admit something, the fact that the fanbase has focused in on Geno so much is . . . fine, but it underplays the rest of the game. Yes, Geno is the most iconic character in the game for a reason, he's awesome in his own right, and he IS the perfect character to represent everything that makes the game special in Smash Bros, but Super Mario RPG is A LOT more than just Geno, there's also, believe it or not, an entire GAME included with him too! That's just my two cents though.

People also like to raise the oh so poignant question of "Why Smash?" instead of something like Mario Kart for characters like Geno and Mallow. Well, aside from the fact that I think giving Super Mario RPG a character slot in smash is entirely deserved, and the idea of a "bar" to pass in Smash for entry doesn't really mean much when Ice Climbers and an actual Piranha Plant are in the game, it's also the one place in the last 24 years, aside from a few small cameos and music nods, where the game has even gotten a fraction of the recognition it deserves. Say what you will about Sakurai, but he didn't HAVE to add the costume. You really think that was Sqaure or Nintendo's idea? Of course not, he said himself he added it for the fans. Honestly at this point, it feels like Smash is the ONLY place the RPG's can even get acknowledged anymore.
Being blunt, I don't know where we go from here. Obviously the thread is split over whether Geno is deconfirmed or not, but let's just assume he is as a thought experiment.

Smash 6 might not be for another 5-10 years, who knows what the state of Nintendo, the Smash Fanbase, and the Mario RPG's will be by that point. Who's to say Smash 6 won't be a full reboot? There's no way to top Ultimate, so you either just keep adding onto it, or push the reset button. I've made it clear several times that I thought Ultimate was the last chance for Geno in Smash for this exact reason. We won't really know until we actually see the game, and I'll still hope for him regardless, but I don't think it's something we as a fanbase should hedge our bets on.

So, what about the RPG's in general? For a long time, I was actually ok with Super Mario RPG getting the short end of the stick. We had two other fantastic series of games as spiritual successors, so while it stung we never got to see that specific world and those characters again, there were still fantastic games coming out every few years.

But a lot has changed over the past 7-10 years. Alphadream is dead along with Mario and Luigi, with the last three games being either being remakes, or Paper Jam, a game that forgoes a lot of the charm that makes the Mario RPG's so special. Paper Mario has been completely transformed into what I consider an entirely separate franchise at this point, and while whether the game is actually good is up for debate, it's dropped almost everything that I loved about the first three games, and more importantly, what made it such a good spiritual successor TO Super Mario RPG. All in all, in my eyes, we really haven't gotten a good, traditional game in this style since Dream Team 7 years ago. And that sucks.

But I hate to be all doom and gloom about this. Has Nintendo proven that they either don't know, or more likely don't care, about how much people love these games? Maybe, buuuuut I do think there are signs we could move in a better direction, atleast eventually. Super Mario Odyssey did more unique, new, interesting stuff with Mario then the last three Paper Mario games combined. While we have yet to see exactly how this pans out, I don't know if I can see Nintendo giving up on traditional Mario RPG's entirely just because Alphadream closed down. And you know what, if Sakurai has shown he atleast cares a little bit about Super Mario RPG, clearly he isn't the only person at Nintendo who does. The old geezers at Nintendo who keep making these asinine changes to the "Mario Brand" can't stay in charge forever. Who knows, Square and Nintendo are getting along better now than anytime I can remember. It might take some time, but I do think times will get better... eventually.

As for me, well like I said before, Geno was the last character I actively wanted in the game, so with him off the table in my eyes, I guess...
Now that I have nothing to lose and everything to gain, Smash Speculation is a lot less...stressful? I might not even complain if they put Reimu in the game! (maybe) I'm probably going to stick around in the thread though, honestly, you guys are the only place in this fandom I can even tolerate at this point. God forbid people try and have ACTUAL FUN with speculation, oh no this is SERIOUS BUISINESS talking about who we think is showing up in a children's party game. I guess I could try the general speculation threPFFFFFF
Can't even finish that. I really love hanging out with you guys, and one of these days, the stars will shine down again.
 
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Forthestarcapelad

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Nov 15, 2019
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Though I will admit something, the fact that the fanbase has focused in on Geno so much is . . . fine, but it underplays the rest of the game. Yes, Geno is the most iconic character in the game for a reason, he's awesome in his own right, and he IS the perfect character to represent everything that makes the game special in Smash Bros, but Super Mario RPG is A LOT more than just Geno, there's also, believe it or not, an entire GAME included with him too! That's just my two cents though.
I think I can kind of relate to this on some level. I won't lie, as a pretty huge Dragon Quest fan (perfect image to start your post by the way), I got tired of the "LOL GOKU IS IN SMASH" jokes pretty quickly. I mean I'm a filthy memer myself, and the Akira Toriyama art style is why I got in to Dragon quest in the first place, sure, and yes, the series isn't nearly as well known or loved outside of Japan, but I feel like the series as a whole is worth more than just being clowned on as just a series that has another anime swordsman that happens to look like Goku. I mean it IS the original JRPG series, finally getting representation in smash. There's a lot more to the games than just the art style, but maybe this is just me finding an excuse to vent.

Still,, to connect this point back to Geno, I feel like this may be part of why having just a mii costume rather than him being fully playable can be just as bad as him not being in at all for some, possibly even worse. All you get with a mii costume (not even a deluxe at that) is just a mii wearing a cosplay that looks good until you get to the face. When it's just the costume, you lose out on the potential to show off their native game's mechanics because you don't have a moveset that's even remotely representative of that.

You don't get any history from the game because you don't have the music or stage that would accompany them. All you get is a costume that naturally gives the impression of looking goofy because either Nintendo gave it a bad face in the promotional material, or because the miis themselves are naturally very silly looking, and that is prime bait for people to pick apart and make fun of, especially when it's a heavily requested character. You lose any chance to really expose people to the game that the character is from because, frankly, hardly anyone really cares about mii costumes outside joking around,. At the very least, barely anyone would take them over a playable version of that character. All you're left with is the butt of a joke ((that's how I'm correlating it to your point anyways lol).

I don't want to sound completely ungrateful for the fact that Sakurai acknowledged Geno or his game at all, because I very much am grateful for that, but the stigma that comes with the mii costumes at this point kind of counters the good intentions he probably had.
 
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Morgana J. Cat

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Given the history of K. Rool, the irony here is pretty thick. Up until he got in, the history of K. Rool really wasn't that different from Geno's. A lot of the same problems, a lot of the same criticisms from outside the fanbase, etc. I'd like to think that if the roles were reversed we wouldn't specifically single out a fanbase like this but it is what it is. Honestly, I think this is the first time I've seen someone flat out tell a fanbase "things turned out this way because you didn't try hard enough" and it's kind of weird to try to shame an entire fanbase like this. Again, the irony is pretty thick since K. Rool was a "never ever" only two years ago.
I don't use the word "cringe" often but man, the fact that whoever runs this account could say something like this without a shred of embarrassment gives me chills. The Smash fanbase's online culture of needing to "campaign" for your character has always been obnoxious. It sucks that Geno as a fighter isn't happening, but make no mistake that his fans have been heard, and that the Mii costume is proof of that. Likewise, I'm sure K. Rool, Ridley and Banjo were recognized without the help of these dumb twitter accounts begging for attention.
I literally couldn’t agree more. I know I’m not the only one here who feels this way but damn, I just can’t stand Twitter lately. What really pisses me off the most is the hypocrisy. People go around supporting and defending someone like K.Rool and then call Geno irrelevant and dead, oh and my personal favorite: just a one-off side character. King K. Rool is literally a one off villain in the Donkey Kong series as well. The IP has been successful just as before without the kremlings, hell Returns was the most financially successful DK game, let that alone tell you about how relevant K.Rool is to the DK series in general.
 

Dan

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The results were never released but I feel the sample size of this data collection gives us a good idea how things went down. 45,000 votes is nothing to sneeze at and, from this, it's very heavily implied Geno did extremely well:


Quick takeaways:

13th overall

10th "newcomer"

6th third party characters
And this is why Bayonetta "winning" the ballot was BS.

So much has honestly changed since then... Geno is sort of the last one standing. Some of the big names (Crash, Sora, Doomguy, Ryu, etc.) are surprisingly low or not even on the list.
 

pinshadow

Smash Lord
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I literally couldn’t agree more. I know I’m not the only one here who feels this way but damn, I just can’t stand Twitter lately. What really pisses me off the most is the hypocrisy. People go around supporting and defending someone like K.Rool and then call Geno irrelevant and dead, oh and my personal favorite: just a one-off side character. King K. Rool is literally a one off villain in the Donkey Kong series as well. The IP has been successful just as before without the kremlings, hell Returns was the most financially successful DK game, let that alone tell you about how relevant K.Rool is to the DK series in general.
Ok as someone who completely disagrees with basically everything in the twitter thread, this post is just kinda factually wrong. Like, completely.
  • King K. Rool wasn't a one time villain, he's literally the main villain of the DKC Trilogy and 64, he just changes personas each game because that's his whole gimmick. He is to Donkey Kong what Bowser, Ganondorf, and Ridley are to their franchises.
  • Returns was financially succesful (and I love it), selling 6.53 Million on the Wii and almost 3 Million on the 3DS. So yeah, a lot, but the MOST? Donkey Kong Country is literally the 3rd best selling game on the SNES with over 9 million sold. DKC 2 and 3 are both in the top 10 as well, even as they both released in the last two years of its life. Donkey Kong 64 sold over 5 million copies on the N64, and hell Diddy Kong Racing did almost just as well. Donkey Kong was one of Nintendo's BIG franchises back then, arguably just under Mario. Yeah, Donkey Kong doesn't NEED King K Rool to be successful, but he's still a major, important part of the franchise, and just because Nintendo decided to ignore most of what Rare did after the buyout until now doesn't change that.
 
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SpiritOfRuin

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We should do something nice for Mario Day again. I like working with the Starlight Children's Charity. Maybe we can steer conversation towards this instead of playing Sword in the Stone with changing my opinions?
I was actually about to suggest something like this. As a community we really need to set our sights away from Ultimate now regardless of whether we believe Geno can still come or not. Everything for Ultimate is already decided us focusing our energy there won't beget us any tangible results. So how do we nag Nintendo now? How do we make our voices heard? How do we shove our opinions vigorously down the earholes of those who must hear them? These are the questions we need to be asking. Especially that last one. What's the next step for this community? How do we switch gears and apply our passion and energy towards everything SMRPG not limited to just Smash?
 

Awkwah

Smash Cadet
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BEWARE: Geno
Something I want to remind the thread real quick is that coincidentally the 25th Anniversary of SMRPG is March 9th and Mario Day is March 10th so it's definitely a golden opportunity to plan something good to celebrate both. We don't have to go pen and paper right this second but in my opinion, if we want to get something good set up by these days, we should start seriously discussing it by mid January. Benefit of this too is that people can enjoy Christmas and New Years and return some much needed levity to the thread for a couple of weeks.

There are quite a few things we could do. I was not around for the last one done here so I will list things off the top of my head:

1. Smash tournament (streamed) with a donation goal for "x" organization (could be Geno mii themed for kicks and giggles)
2. 24 Hour or non-stop run of SMRPG or all Mario RPGS till it is complete (streamed with donation goal)

Definitely let me know, I got some pull in another large Discord and would be willing to help where needed and see if our community would be on board!
 

Morgana J. Cat

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Ok as someone who completely disagrees with basically everything in the twitter thread, this post is just kinda factually wrong. Like, completely.
  • King K. Rool wasn't a one time villain, he's literally the main villain of the DKC Trilogy and 64, he just changes personas each game because that's his whole gimmick. He is to Donkey Kong what Bowser, Ganondorf, and Ridley are to their franchises.
By one time I meant he wasn’t exclusive to one game but to a certain era. With Returns he never came back to a mainline DK game and the series has shown to handle itself pretty well without him. They could literally continue with the Snowmads and the games would still be popular and well received as hell.

Returns was financially succesful (and I love it), selling 6.53 Million on the Wii and almost 3 Million on the 3DS. So yeah, a lot, but the MOST? Donkey Kong Country is literally the 3rd best selling game on the SNES with over 9 million sold. DKC 2 and 3 are both in the top 10 as well, even as they both released in the last two years of its life. Donkey Kong 64 sold over 5 million copies on the N64, and hell Diddy Kong Racing did almost just as well. Donkey Kong was one of Nintendo's BIG franchises back then, arguably just under Mario. Yeah, Donkey Kong doesn't NEED King K Rool to be successful, but he's still a major, important part of the franchise, and just because Nintendo decided to ignore most of what Rare did after the buyout until now doesn't change that.
Ok you got me there, but nevertheless it was a comercial success and thus my point still stands: DK can survive without K.Rool. That doesn’t mean people should forget about him, hell I’m glad the fans brought him back from the dead to Smash, but there’s nothing that inherently goes against Nintendo making Lord Frederick DK’s new “Bowser”. With that said, I think it’s fair to say K.rool and Geno were on the same page when it comes to relevance and support from both fanbases, which means the K.Rool fans shouldn’t try to put down Geno fans with points that K.Rool also suffered from before he went to Smash.
 
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Strife

Banned via Warnings
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Counterpoint:

View attachment 296365


Bayonetta is not even in the top 10 SEGA franchise wise. Even the combined total of the whole series doesn't even allow it to break the top 40 best selling SEGA games. Literally just the original release of SMRPG on the SNES has sold more than both Bayonetta games combined at roughly 2.1 million copies sold.
Bayonetta is an exception to this because she was selected by the fan vote, not Nintendo.
 

Burb

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Well the question is where did Geno place on the ballot? I think he could potentially win a new one, but I would guess he placed like tenth.
No official ballot data was ever released, all anyone has to go off of is characters Sakurai implied (or outright stated) were popular ballot picks, which include Ridley, K. Rool, Simon Belmont, and Chrom.

Being a popular ballot pick isn't really enough to get a character in, though; Isaac is a prime example. The fact that his Assist Trophy was randomly brought back (the only one that originated in Brawl, was cut in SSB4, and then brought back for Ultimate aside from the third party Gray Fox) and he was given a Mii Costume on top of it tells me Isaac probably did well enough in the ballot for Sakurai to take notice and do something for his fans, even if it wasn't exactly what they were hoping for.

I'm almost certain people here are going to try and deny this, but Geno's support during the bulk of SSB4's development was not on the same level it was for Ultimate or Brawl. Yes, he popped up on fan ballots doing decently, but from what I remember, he routinely lost to the likes of Paper Mario and Daisy (My post history actually contains an instance of him having been defeated by Shrek in one fan ballot, too). The K. Rool tweet that ticked a lot of you off was absolutely true from my recollection. It was the Mii Costume from Cloud's wave that brought new life into Geno support, and, unfortunately for you guys, that was too late to make an impact in the ballot. He probably did okay, but I can't imagine he was that high up.

In the case of both him and Isaac, I think a quote from Sakurai himself during the days of the Smash 4 Miiverse Pics of the Day rings true:
"Just because you try hard doesn't mean you'll make it into the battle."
 
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PlasmaDam

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
471
Even we as are assuming that mii costumes Are dont mean anything by that logic people like Travis cuphead sans and Tifa still have a chance.Hell being mii customed didnt mean anything why would Square choose geno instead of like someone like Tifa for more ff7 promotional stuff
 

Firox

Smash Master
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Messages
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I’ll be honest I voted multiple characters with different devices in fear that multiple votes on the same device wouldnt count lol

I voted Geno on my Phone
King K Rool on my 3DS Browser
and Rayman on my Wii U Browser
LOL I did something similar. My votes were Geno, Isaac and Wolf. (Don't judge me, I wanted my old Brawl main back)


As a side note, I see a lot of debate in here over whether Geno was "popular enough" during the Sm4sh era to warrant getting in as a fighter. Frankly, I think Geno's notoriety and cult popularity can't really be disputed, but that's not even the reason I think he didn't get in. To be totally honest, I think his silver bullet to the head was two things (Neither of which depended on his fan demand):

1) The simple fact that he wasn't the main protagonist or antagonist of his game. If you look at the entire Smash roster (with the glaring exception of PP) all of them are main protagonists or antagonists of their given franchises. Granted, I know there is a valid argument for him actually qualifying as a main protagonist, but the issue is that I doubt Nintendo or SE rationalizes this in the same way. Regardless of what we may think, they seem resigned to the belief that he's too obscure to warrant to spot on the Smash roster.

2) Rights issues. This is a big guess, I'll admit, but something I don't think should be overlooked. We don't know what the cost or agreements were behind the scenes for getting Geno in Smash. That's not to say that the cost was too high, but rather that Nintendo didn't see the value of investment. Maybe they couldn't. Maybe they just didn't WANT to. It's hard to say for sure, but there was likely some red tape bureaucracy and good old fashion stubborn businessmen that got in the way.
 
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