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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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drewber2635

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Idk guys, I feel like Sakurai loves breaking "fan rules" and I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a character that was also a Mii costume in Ultimate. Now if its Geno, who knows, but it could be. Its not impossible that's for sure. I also think its weird that Sakurai didn't even mention Geno this time around, he was just like "ok here are the mii costumes yadayadayada now lets get back to Sephiroth."
 

Theguy123

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What’s disappointing to me and is one of the most annoying things out there about sephirophs reveal is that it’s another character from FF7 and I can’t play the remake because it’s PlayStation exclusive.

like I’d be way more happier about his revels if i could load up the switch and play the FF7 remake but I can’t which makes me frustrated. Square wanna promote FF7 remake but they won’t even bring it to the switch. Xboxnot getting it is understandable but cmon. At least bring it to the switch.
 

Opossum

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And why was Legacy XP taken down? And why is the SMRPG Remake/Remaster/Sequel rumor so prevalent? And why is Geno literally the only Mii costume that multiple people heard well in advance? And where is Crono? And where is the Mallow hat? And what's up with Cacomallow? And why isn't SMRPG on the NSO yet? And why is SMRPG one of the only games the Mario 35 Twitter hasn't acknowledged yet? And what's up with the Gamestop flub? And why were so many prominent insiders teasing Geno over the summer if he was only a Mii costume? And why is the Geno Mii costume literally the only Square Enix thing in the game not attached to something you can readily buy? And... Yeah, but "Ridley Shadows", amirite?
I'll be blunt, but I firmly believe most of this stuff means absolutely nothing and that you're piling up coincidences and false leads.

Legacy XP was likely taken down for the same reason all of those other mods and ROMhacks were taken down, that being Nintendo not being big on copyright infringement.

The remake rumors could be a 3D All-Stars situation, but it could also be a Star Fox Grand Prix one. And honestly I'm not sure the frequency of the rumors is even near the same ballpark as either.

It's possible he was the only one they felt was worth sharing. Or, they never heard anything and just wanted a rise out of Geno fans.

Crono could be in a licensing kerfuffle due to the split ownership, so while they were able to overcome it for Hero, it may not have been worth it to go for Crono in addition.

The Mallow Hat was always fake. The list maker very clearly added it to either give themselves a legal alibi for it being fake, or, once again, the costume was added to the list to give Geno fans false hope.

The writing has been on the wall for Cacomallow ever since, at the latest, Terry's reveal. It's been too long and it's been shown that you can add jiggle physics to high quality hat mods. Giving the mod the benefit of the doubt is clinging to a corpse.

Legend of the Seven Stars isn't on NSO due to high profile third party games being largely absent in general. Ninja Gaiden is an exception, not a rule. A lot of third parties would rather sell their retro games themselves, like with the Castlevania and Mega Man collections.

Is the twitter account skipping over the game really that notable? It's a relatively obscure Mario title in the grand scheme of things. And, again, might be them not wanting to add in games they don't have full ownership of.

The GameStop flub is just that, a flub. They wouldn't even know that far in advance anyway.

They were likely either speculating or getting a rise out of fans. Honestly this seems more like a case of seeing something where there isn't something.

As for it being the only thing not readily profitable, that's simple. It's a reward for the continued support. A consolation prize.

Like I said, pretty much everything here has a very simple explanation as to why it either wasn't a hint or really amounted to nothing.
 

Pokesamus217

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And why was Legacy XP taken down? And why is the SMRPG Remake/Remaster/Sequel rumor so prevalent? And why is Geno literally the only Mii costume that multiple people heard well in advance? And where is Crono? And where is the Mallow hat? And what's up with Cacomallow? And why isn't SMRPG on the NSO yet? And why is SMRPG one of the only games the Mario 35 Twitter hasn't acknowledged yet? And what's up with the Gamestop flub? And why were so many prominent insiders teasing Geno over the summer if he was only a Mii costume? And why is the Geno Mii costume literally the only Square Enix thing in the game not attached to something you can readily buy? And... Yeah, but "Ridley Shadows", amirite?
Legacy was likely taken down due to Nintendo not liking most fan works in general, the SMRPG rumors is probably due to a combination of you hyper focusing on them and that idea being prime leak bait material. Combination of Geno being so prevalent in speculation or just “insiders” making a likely guess. The Crono and Mallow hat were probably false rumors. At this point the Cacomallow leak has taken so long and with their timing it sorta has to be false at this point. The same reason nearly every noticeable third party game isn’t on NSO. Probably because Nintendo thought talking to square enix about it isn’t really worth it to make a Twitter post. It was probably an actual mistake on their end. Most presumed insiders are bull****. And it was released with the FF7 stuff because that’s what they did last time.

You are desperate for there to be this vast conspiracy involved in this but there’s not one here.
 

One-Winged Bagel

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Even if it's not like "if people listen to the music there they won't listen to it buying our games!!", it's still third people making a profit out of one of their IPs, which is something most companies frown upon. I agree that it's weird they happened to remove those specific tracks at such a specific moment, though.
...Wait, how are they making profit with these songs?

I can understand the thought of "they wouldn't buy our ost", which is a legitimate reason. But unless Square-Enix is selling the music online in some way, that doesn't hold. Copyright claims, as I noted, have nothing to do with money alone. They just don't want anyone using their IP directly sometimes. Fanfiction/art/music is basically parody to them, so they can't do anything about it.

Here's another similar example from before; there's an official Power Rangers Youtube. They are not allowed to put out compilation clips of any season's zord fights or full battles. Just smaller clips at most(and obviously full episodes aren't allowed by default outside of paying for them. That's not to say some companies will never do so, but this isn't the case for Saban, Bandai, or Disney). Why? Cause it makes it harder for people to actually watch a full episode anyway. Say any particular streaming service you pay for. This makes sure the company gets royalties.

So overall, no, the songs are very unlikely to be for business reasons. It's just them claiming their lawful copyright because they want to. If it isn't trolls doing so, it's most likely this. And it sucks too. Now, if we are getting a re-release soon(regardless of OST), then it could potentially cut into sales. For the companies, they want their music to be listened to by actually playing the game. Remember when Sakurai said a big reason he took out the cutscenes from Smash 4 was due to uploads on Youtube? Note he never did a copyright claim on them. But he's not wrong. Listening to music in a game actually has more impact in-game than just the music itself. Some companies latch onto that more clearly as well.

That said, please give us the SMRPG OST.

Okay, so... my thoughts aren't necessarily wrong. I just went to Pandora. Pandora, to note, only has songs on there that were licensed from the company. Beware the Forest's Mushroom has a remix on there. That means, that get this, Square-Enix is actually using the specific song on a payable service. That also means that it being free online and unable to be paid for can cut into their money flow. What was the other song, btw? I can probably find it too. I was curious about this, since I talked about services. But there you go. The copyright claim is pretty much business-related anyway.
 

Fatmanonice

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Idk guys, I feel like Sakurai loves breaking "fan rules" and I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a character that was also a Mii costume in Ultimate. Now if its Geno, who knows, but it could be. Its not impossible that's for sure. I also think its weird that Sakurai didn't even mention Geno this time around, he was just like "ok here are the mii costumes yadayadayada now lets get back to Sephiroth."
Given how like 3/4ths of the Smash fanbase could barely cope with "spirits deconfirm" getting BTFO, I'm pretty sure the first character to break "Mii costumes deconfirm" or even "assist trophies deconfirm" is just going to straight up shatter people's pysches. I feel like it's inevitable and, especially assist trophies, have been low hanging fruit since the game launched.
 

SpiritOfRuin

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How's everyone doing today? Just checking in on my Geno boys and girls. I'm doing ok. The sting is gone. I'm still annoyed that Sephiroth didn't bring anything new (other than being a third party villain) to Smash tho. I'm working on my own personal ultimate Smash roster but I'm limiting myself. I have to make a certain number of cuts and I have to add 10 less characters than the amount that I cut to make it more interesting.
 

NapoleonBeezwax

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i know im gonna be called delusonal or whatever i dont care but that mii costume was the most underwhelming thing i have ever seen. its like sakurai yoinked it out of the way as fast as possible then moved on as quickly as he could , againagain delusional blabla but i feel like if it was a sans style mii and sakurai talked a bout it, that would be much more bad for genos chances
I get that square doesnt like music but just putting a real geno head on a mii costume shouldnt have been an issue wouldnt you agree Fatmanonice Fatmanonice
 

Serenade01

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It's ****ing fascinating how even in death we can't know peace. Let old men yell at the walls in their asylum, for Christ's sake. You guys aren't even the first to the punch with this nonsense, I was saying it all meant nothing a month ago and I'm a ****ing Geno supporter. Go find some charity to support if you want to help people so badly.

Idk guys, I feel like Sakurai loves breaking "fan rules" and I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a character that was also a Mii costume in Ultimate. Now if its Geno, who knows, but it could be. Its not impossible that's for sure. I also think its weird that Sakurai didn't even mention Geno this time around, he was just like "ok here are the mii costumes yadayadayada now lets get back to Sephiroth."
Ah, welcome to the cult, I suppose.

As much of a pessimist as I am, and as little as I expect it, I really do think it's a huge Nintendo move to take a fan requested character like this and outright murder him just to pull the wool over our eyes. I mention this ancient interview with Sakurai in which he says that he doesn't like to mess with people's expectations, and while that's definitely part of what he said, he also put an "unless" in there - unless it pays off to make people happy.

I see it like this: Imagine that Lloyd Irving shows up as FP9. At this point, it was obvious, right? His costume's missing, and even if it comes back with him, the theory was that if you've survived the axe for this long, you're gonna be in. Now imagine that Lloyd was FP8 and Geno was still nowhere to be seen, even the haters would have to think Geno was somewhere in the pipes because Lloyd "confirmed" this fan rule.

As it stands, though, Lloyd could show up and Geno would seem to be out of the running. I use these two specifically because they are Brawl requests that were specifically talked about by Sakurai.

Do I believe that this is the case? Nah. But we've got at least one year left of this ride and I'll enjoy it quite a bit more now that I think I have nothing to look forward to.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Given how like 3/4ths of the Smash fanbase could barely cope with "spirits deconfirm" getting BTFO, I'm pretty sure the first character to break "Mii costumes deconfirm" or even "assist trophies deconfirm" is just going to straight up shatter people's pysches. I feel like it's inevitable and, especially assist trophies, have been low hanging fruit since the game launched.
I really hope the next character is Waluigi since the Mario 35th anniversary celebration ends in March. It would be wonderful to see these detractors and trolls to get BTFO with Waluigi in March breaking the Assist Trophy fan rule. It would be great to see them lose their minds that the Assist Trophy fan rule is dead.
 

drewber2635

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How's everyone doing today? Just checking in on my Geno boys and girls. I'm doing ok. The sting is gone. I'm still annoyed that Sephiroth didn't bring anything new (other than being a third party villain) to Smash tho. I'm working on my own personal ultimate Smash roster but I'm limiting myself. I have to make a certain number of cuts and I have to add 10 less characters than the amount that I cut to make it more interesting.
As a FF fan, Sephiroth is fine. I still think FF7 is overrated and it doesn't really make sense for them to promote a game that won't even come to the Switch...but when I fired up the game last night I couldn't help but appreciate everything Sakurai and his team has done. Geno getting costumed sucked but at least the game itself is still great and fun. I am hoping for my boi Urshifu to get in and I would also be just happy with Impa from AoC. But so far in the DLC, Hero was the only one where I was really excited for. Banjo too but that was more of pure nostalgia speaking.
 

Fatmanonice

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I'll be blunt, but I firmly believe most of this stuff means absolutely nothing and that you're piling up coincidences and false leads.

Legacy XP was likely taken down for the same reason all of those other mods and ROMhacks were taken down, that being Nintendo not being big on copyright infringement.

The remake rumors could be a 3D All-Stars situation, but it could also be a Star Fox Grand Prix one. And honestly I'm not sure the frequency of the rumors is even near the same ballpark as either.

It's possible he was the only one they felt was worth sharing. Or, they never heard anything and just wanted a rise out of Geno fans.

Crono could be in a licensing kerfuffle due to the split ownership, so while they were able to overcome it for Hero, it may not have been worth it to go for Crono in addition.

The Mallow Hat was always fake. The list maker very clearly added it to either give themselves a legal alibi for it being fake, or, once again, the costume was added to the list to give Geno fans false hope.

The writing has been on the wall for Cacomallow ever since, at the latest, Terry's reveal. It's been too long and it's been shown that you can add jiggle physics to high quality hat mods. Giving the mod the benefit of the doubt is clinging to a corpse.

Legend of the Seven Stars isn't on NSO due to high profile third party games being largely absent in general. Ninja Gaiden is an exception, not a rule. A lot of third parties would rather sell their retro games themselves, like with the Castlevania and Mega Man collections.

Is the twitter account skipping over the game really that notable? It's a relatively obscure Mario title in the grand scheme of things. And, again, might be them not wanting to add in games they don't have full ownership of.

The GameStop flub is just that, a flub. They wouldn't even know that far in advance anyway.

They were likely either speculating or getting a rise out of fans. Honestly this seems more like a case of seeing something where there isn't something.

As for it being the only thing not readily profitable, that's simple. It's a reward for the continued support. A consolation prize.

Like I said, pretty much everything here has a very simple explanation as to why it either wasn't a hint or really amounted to nothing.
Skimming through this, you state your opinions and assumptions as fact. For example the "oh, they were just getting a rise out of fans" bit when insiders were all coincidentally talking up Geno days leading up to what was rumored to be a major Direct at the time. Both Imran Khan and Andre Seger have openly stated that they don't like to **** around with the Smash fanbase because we're certifiably nuts and backlash, especially on Twitter, is usually over the top and they don't want that drama. They're not that petty and they've both pointed out instances of fans flipping the **** out on them for significantly less. Their visible frustrations (among a number of others like Nate Drake) the days following also show they were expecting something big on July 20th that simply didn't pan out.
 

Oracle Link

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I definitly think expecting a Geno fighter after Sephiroth was anounced espeacialy in fighterys pass 2 was stupid (i say that as a Person who again and again gets nothing i mean realy the second/third Game with no Zelda/Kirby Newcomer)

that being said Genos costume should have really been improved (maybe a better and if not SMRPG music then maybe ML Superstars Battle theme sounds similar enough because stingy Squareenix)

but atleast sakurai was nice by moving miis to being good choice probably because theyre probably the most interesting parts of the Character Showcase outside of maybe Stages/Music and othe News
 

Dynamic Worlok

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It's funny to me that the people who don't want this to be the Fatman thread come in and MAKE it the Fatman thread. Streisand effect, people.

Anyway, let's talk speculation. If we were to make a geno centric fan game, how would we structure it. I'm curious to hear what ideas you'd have about playstyle, story, design, etc.
 

Penguinbowler

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I think Genos biggest Hurdle is, well Square Enix itself. I remember a report from all the way back in smash 4, when they were negotiating the rights of a Final fantasy character Sakurai was hoping to get Bartz or Terra, but he was talked into taking Cloud by a high ranking member of the FF team. I wouldn't be surprised if he went to Square to negotiate another Character, but was Convinced into taking Sephiroth, as he seems to give the heads of the games he's nabbing a lot of choice on who gets in.
 

YoshiandToad

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Anyway, let's talk speculation. If we were to make a geno centric fan game, how would we structure it. I'm curious to hear what ideas you'd have about playstyle, story, design, etc.
Probably hide Geno's face entirely to avoid a copyright take down tbh. Fan games with licensed Nintendo and Square characters don't tend last long.

But if you ignore copyright infringement entirely and speak entirely theoretically;
Something about making wishes of other Nintendo characters come true would be a nice one. Like an odd jobs kinda thing travelling to different Nintendo worlds and fulfilling tasks to make the residents dreams come true could be cool. Thinking Chibi-Robo or Captain Rainbow style.

Always liked the idea, but those titles never really took off in the mainstream due to never being localised or being too hard to get.
 

One-Winged Bagel

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It's funny to me that the people who don't want this to be the Fatman thread come in and MAKE it the Fatman thread. Streisand effect, people.

Anyway, let's talk speculation. If we were to make a geno centric fan game, how would we structure it. I'm curious to hear what ideas you'd have about playstyle, story, design, etc.
It depends what system when it comes to the controls. I'd stick with the "button equals action" like before. It'd also make it close enough to replaying the M&L series.

I feel one big thing is either more party members or being able to literally switch out Mario like Randomizer allows. That way you can make a much more unique team. I also wouldn't mind having some crossover monsters/characters as summons/allies. Like Cactuar, Moogle, Chocobo, or also some classic Mario enemies. It'd give the partner thing another try, even if it's not really that close to Paper Mario. You could even throw in the actual Paper allies instead, which would mean they're just from another world. Despite Paper Mario being a different person, they'd help the regular version of Mario anyway cause it's still Mario. Nuff said on that.

Also, the inventory needs to be better. Have each item that's the same have a number by them instead of taking up an extra slot. ...Oddly that's specifically from Dragon Quest, whereas Final Fantasy generally has multiples grouped together.
 

Fatmanonice

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It's funny to me that the people who don't want this to be the Fatman thread come in and MAKE it the Fatman thread. Streisand effect, people.

Anyway, let's talk speculation. If we were to make a geno centric fan game, how would we structure it. I'm curious to hear what ideas you'd have about playstyle, story, design, etc.
Right? People literally come into this thread, read my posts, get mad at me, a Geno fan of 24 years, and then get indignant that they aren't the Chosen One™ to change my opinions on things.

"Okay, you guys don't like me. I will predominantly stay in this thread to reduce conflict."

(The conflict was, in fact, not reduced but rather concentrated.)

God, can you imagine if I was actually super serious about this and had a YouTube channel , Discord channel, or Twitter account? Holy hell...
 

Serenade01

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Right? People literally come into this thread, read my posts, get mad at me, a Geno fan of 24 years, and then get indignant that they aren't the Chosen One™ to change my opinions on things.

"Okay, you guys don't like me. I will predominantly stay in this thread to reduce conflict."

(The conflict was, in fact, not reduced but rather concentrated.)

God, can you imagine if I was actually super serious about this and had a YouTube channel , Discord channel, or Twitter account? Holy hell...
1540593414781.png


To be fair, if you had a Youtube and your own Discord and Twitter I assume people would consider you a legend the likes of Blocked Content and the rest of these "leak" channels. People would hate you, sure, but the 1 million+ views and thousands of subscribers make them look like fools for not liking you.
 

Firox

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So in case anyone's interested, here's my early breakdown on Sephiroth:

-He's fun and very interesting to play, but I have some serious concerns about his competitive viability
-His range is inarguably huge, but holy hell, his frame data both on startup and end lag is downright brutal. You really have to predict how your opponent will approach, react, etc. but you can't just throw out hitboxes either or you'll get punished hard. The only fast, low endlag move I think he has is Nair, but its active hitbox is really short so timing and spacing is key
-Apparently he's stupidly light. The value is 79 which is equal to that of Pikachu and Kirby except he's as tall as Mewtwo...
-His mobility is pretty good though, especially when his wing spawns after taking enough damage. The wing gives him a third jump and boosts all of his mobility stats. Cool feature, but I'm curious why Sakurai left it almost completely unexplained.
-His Up B Octaslash is, in my opinion, his funnest and flashiest move, doing about 27% damage at full charge and killing as early as about 80%.
-His projectiles are cool, but lack either speed or range, making them almost useless for camping (not that that's how he should be played, but). Without a proper reflector, I see him struggling against campers pretty hard.
-Recovery overall is really good. His Up B is more versatile than Cloud's and his third jump with the wing will make him very difficult to gimp. Unfortunately, his crazy light weight will make him easier to KO outright though.

Summary: After just a few hours of play, I think he's fun and interesting for a swordie, but I really would have rathered sacrifice power for frame data. Not sure if his reach is enough to compensate with the faster characters in the meta, but I guess time will tell.
 

SpiritOfRuin

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As a FF fan, Sephiroth is fine. I still think FF7 is overrated and it doesn't really make sense for them to promote a game that won't even come to the Switch...but when I fired up the game last night I couldn't help but appreciate everything Sakurai and his team has done. Geno getting costumed sucked but at least the game itself is still great and fun. I am hoping for my boi Urshifu to get in and I would also be just happy with Impa from AoC. But so far in the DLC, Hero was the only one where I was really excited for. Banjo too but that was more of pure nostalgia speaking.
I should have worded better. I meant he didn't bring anything really new or spectacular moveset-wise. I understand why they added Sephiroth for sure and why they focus on FF7 even though I'd love to see Black Mage even if they were just a Mii costume. I'm glad you at least got some characters you like. I can only care about any of these characters vicariously. Piranha Plant is still the DLC I care about most and Joker the one that got me most hyped because he made it seem like anyone was possible. All my most wanteds aren't even that niche like Crash and Rayman but I still haven't gotten anything that I can really get excited about. In fact, the thing I'm most excited about this whole DLC is the Sans costume lol. How weird is that? I definitely understand all the picks so far except maybe Byleth I just wish I could be thrown a bone. But I digress it's just a game and it's not over yet and they can't please everyone all the time. I did at least get a lot in base game that I wanted anyway. I'm going to be putting some creative energy into this roster I'm writing up for fun so that'll help me have something fun to do.
 

PJiggles

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Well everyone, just came in to send my condolences. Been wishing for Geno since Brawl, but after 12 years of believing in him I'd say it's finally over. You hate to see it happen.

However please never stop showing people the Geno/SMRPG support you have. I'm sure something will come out of it eventually.

Stay strong my Geno brothers and sisters. Technically he could still become a DLC fighter since we have 3 slots left, but I think it's incredibly unlikely.
 

Zema

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I would say Geno's chances are pretty much 0% at this point, but speculation is always fun so I'll give my two cents;

Something here doesn't quite add up for me. Sakurai clearly knows Geno is a character that gets a fair amount of requests - the true number of which I feel is probably a lot lower than a lot of other Geno fans here might like to admit. However, he still at least gave him a Mii costume splash screen in 4, and made him a hotshot spirit in WoL. Sakurai has talked about him before. Not turning him into at least a premium Mii Costume is just flat-out strange. Either Sakurai doesn't think Geno deserves that (which, fair, he isn't particularly important as a character) or there's something else going on here.

Maybe Sakurai simply wanted to complete the Mii Costume roster from the previous game, bringing back Chocobo and Geno's Mii Costumes. Assuming Geno is still coming... having a premium Geno Mii costume in the game as well as a full fledged Geno fighter would be really strange and probably a little confusing.

I wouldn't hold my breath, though. I've been here long enough to recognize the end of the line. It sucks, because I used to play SMRPG a lot when I was growing up, and would've loved to see a Geno addition, even as just a premium Mii costume with a music track or two. Yoko Shimomura is incredibly talented, it's a really a shame none of her SMRPG tracks made it to Smash.
 
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Fatmanonice

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I think Genos biggest Hurdle is, well Square Enix itself. I remember a report from all the way back in smash 4, when they were negotiating the rights of a Final fantasy character Sakurai was hoping to get Bartz or Terra, but he was talked into taking Cloud by a high ranking member of the FF team. I wouldn't be surprised if he went to Square to negotiate another Character, but was Convinced into taking Sephiroth, as he seems to give the heads of the games he's nabbing a lot of choice on who gets in.
This ties into what we've been talking about today in that Square's content has overwhelmingly come with either a price tag or was from something that was readily available to buy specifically on Nintendo systems. They did this with both Cloud and Sephiroth. "SMRPG probably isn't on the NSO because they want a price tag on it." And that's exactly my point because, shortly after Hero was released, the original Dragon Quest trilogy was available to buy but this was also announced well in advance. Currently there's nothing for SMRPG. In the Wii U days, there was a $7 VC game. At the beginning of Ultimate, there was the SNES Classic. That's one of many reasons why the Geno Mii costume being the only non-advertisment from Square is very unusual to me.
 

Firox

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Question: Did Geno's costume look touched up in any way? I wasn't quite sure whether it was or not.
 

Ura

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This post was warned for making personal attacks.
Right? People literally come into this thread, read my posts, get mad at me, a Geno fan of 24 years, and then get indignant that they aren't the Chosen One™ to change my opinions on things.

"Okay, you guys don't like me. I will predominantly stay in this thread to reduce conflict."

(The conflict was, in fact, not reduced but rather concentrated.)

God, can you imagine if I was actually super serious about this and had a YouTube channel , Discord channel, or Twitter account? Holy hell...
I think it has more to do with the fact that we literally just got a Mii Costume for Geno (that was updated from it's Smash 4 version mind you) and yet SOMEHOW you're still trying to convince the thread of how Geno still has a chance with all the mental gymnastics of "well I heard XYZ from my sources that said this was happening" despite that being completly irrelevant in the face of an outright deconfirm like we got yesterday. I mean what else needs to happen before you get the memo? Because honestly, it's so insufferable even to someone like me who has largely been indifferent to Geno for so long.

I think the sentiment of people who come to this thread saying this like Swamp & Opo just want you to stop, myself included. Because right now, it's just sad that you can't accept what's happening and still trying to convince this thread in the face of a death blow. No mallice intended, I just need to get this off my chest.
 

MattX20

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You guys notice how the release dates for all the DLC in the second Fighter Pass has been all over the place? With MinMin, it was 1 week after the presentation, with Steve, it was 10 days, and with Sephiroth, it was 5 days.
 

Dynamic Worlok

Shunted into the bad timeline
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Welcome to the Geno thread! Stop having opinions about things!
(Seriously, this **** puts a bug up my ass far more than yesterday's deconfirmation did. You're not performing some great service by popping in to stop one user's speculation. Should we all pay obeisance before and after any speculation so that people outside the thread don't come to believe we're misguided sheep being led astray by our pipe smoking shepherd?)
 
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HARBlNGER

Smash Cadet
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Question: Did Geno's costume look touched up in any way? I wasn't quite sure whether it was or not.
It does look like there were some minor changes. The cape looks a bit more flexible and the hat doesn't look as thick as the Smash 4 costume, well to me at least. His wooden body also looks like a different shade of brown.
 

YsDisciple

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Something to keep in the back of the mind for the upcoming year in regards to Geno. Obligatory Nintendo representative. No need to say more; simply a suggestion. Coincidentally as the Super Mario Bros. 35th Anniversary wraps up around the end of March 2021, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars kicks off its 25th Anniversary around the start of the same month (for the Japan release; US would be on May). For quite a few longstanding video game IPs and classic stand alone video games, these anniversaries (20+) tend to be acknowledged and rightfully so.

Also, everyone is free to express their own opinions and thoughts on any matter so long as said opinions don't turn to explicitly aggravate others and the such. In addition, there is a difference between individuals coinciding ever slightly in lines of thought, versus "seeing" someone leading the train of thoughts of others. Everyone chooses what to think and what to believe in. If ever one has felt mislead, then fault was with one's own self and not the other. The ability to discern and preserve independent thought. But I won't get too much into that. That's not what this thread is about.

Again, 2021 will arrive soon. Let us see how it pans out as we each carry on.
 

CB Johnny

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I think Genos biggest Hurdle is, well Square Enix itself. I remember a report from all the way back in smash 4, when they were negotiating the rights of a Final fantasy character Sakurai was hoping to get Bartz or Terra, but he was talked into taking Cloud by a high ranking member of the FF team. I wouldn't be surprised if he went to Square to negotiate another Character, but was Convinced into taking Sephiroth, as he seems to give the heads of the games he's nabbing a lot of choice on who gets in.
Hold on. There was an interview where they said "are you sure Cloud is who you want??" so where did you read this?
 

Serenade01

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So in case anyone's interested, here's my early breakdown on Sephiroth:

-He's fun and very interesting to play, but I have some serious concerns about his competitive viability
-His range is inarguably huge, but holy hell, his frame data both on startup and end lag is downright brutal. You really have to predict how your opponent will approach, react, etc. but you can't just throw out hitboxes either or you'll get punished hard. The only fast, low endlag move I think he has is Nair, but its active hitbox is really short so timing and spacing is key
-Apparently he's stupidly light. The value is 79 which is equal to that of Pikachu and Kirby except he's as tall as Mewtwo...
-His mobility is pretty good though, especially when his wing spawns after taking enough damage. The wing gives him a third jump and boosts all of his mobility stats. Cool feature, but I'm curious why Sakurai left it almost completely unexplained.
-His Up B Octaslash is, in my opinion, his funnest and flashiest move, doing about 27% damage at full charge and killing as early as about 80%.
-His projectiles are cool, but lack either speed or range, making them almost useless for camping (not that that's how he should be played, but). Without a proper reflector, I see him struggling against campers pretty hard.
-Recovery overall is really good. His Up B is more versatile than Cloud's and his third jump with the wing will make him very difficult to gimp. Unfortunately, his crazy light weight will make him easier to KO outright though.

Summary: After just a few hours of play, I think he's fun and interesting for a swordie, but I really would have rathered sacrifice power for frame data. Not sure if his reach is enough to compensate with the faster characters in the meta, but I guess time will tell.
I agree with pretty much all of this. Sakurai did explain the Wing, but it feels a lot less stable for an install than, say, Terry's Go mode or even stuff you can't control the activation of like Joker's meter. Like, at the game's discretion, you are now "getting your ass beat" so it's time to hulk out...? Also for the time being it doesn't even seem to work as advertised, as I was getting kills and that weird ass chicken wing just stayed on me. When does the game figure I'm not "in a pinch" anymore?

I mentioned it already but I feel like Sephiroth's popularity as a character is going to produce some really dedicated mains of him and make him at least somewhat relevant, but Smash Bros is a fair deal different from the average fighting game in which it'd be acceptable to have dismal frame data in exchange for unparalleled range and weaker hits. I can't think of a single character on the roster that can't steamroll Sephiroth thanks to the impressive startup on all of his moves, nair included. He has very few get out of jail options... His best bet is to just try to leave the stage and come back to reset neutral in whatever way he can manage. I think what bugs me the most is that his out of shield options basically don't exist.

I also noticed that he can't really press his advantage very far. His moves are all too slow to have any combos or kill confirms, I described him to some friends as "sword Mega Man" because it really just feels like you have to hang back and get pokes in and then just hope and pray you can connect one of your kill moves when the time comes.

He's extremely multiplayer focused, which I guess is at least true to his character since for a lot of his home game, he had to square up with three dudes at a time. I'd personally rather see all of his bad frames get loaded towards the end of his attacks and to have a few big hitboxes that come out really fast. At least in that situation he'd be able to contend with the faster hitboxes of... I dunno, the whole ****ing cast, and missing becomes virtually a death sentence.

Also his grab is complete and total rubbish. I'm really hoping there's a little more spit and polish to be put on him when he actually launches and this is just some kind of "almost ready" build they figured we'd enjoy.
 

Firox

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It does look like there were some minor changes. The cape looks a bit more flexible and the hat doesn't look as thick as the Smash 4 costume, well to me at least. His wooden body also looks like a different shade of brown.
Yeah, I wasn't sure if they sharpened the texture on the hat. Damn. If the costume got touched up, then it's officially GG for Geno. Reason being, if they had copy and pasted the old Sm4sh costume, then there was a slim chance that they were simply trying to bank some money off it prior to revealing Geno as an actual fighter. That was my last hope, but if the costume got a revamp, then it means that they legit wanted to optimize it as their "best" homage to Geno. How pathetic....they couldn't even be bothered to give him a premium costume. Not even a passing comment. ****ing Nintendo is so ice cold, man.
 

Fatmanonice

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This post was warned due to a confrontational and antagonistic tone.
I think it has more to do with the fact that we literally just got a Mii Costume for Geno (that was updated from it's Smash 4 version mind you) and yet SOMEHOW you're still trying to convince the thread of how Geno still has a chance with all the mental gymnastics of "well I heard XYZ from my sources that said this was happening" despite that being completly irrelevant in the face of an outright deconfirm like we got yesterday. I mean what else needs to happen before you get the memo? Because honestly, it's so insufferable even to someone like me who has largely been indifferent to Geno for so long.

I think the sentiment of people who come to this thread saying this like Swamp & Opo just want you to stop, myself included. Because right now, it's just sad that you can't accept what's happening and still trying to convince this thread in the face of a death blow. No mallice intended, I just need to get this off my chest.
You just said it yourself: you're angry at my opinion, which most of the thread clearly doesn't side with, and how you're not the Chosen One ™ to change it. People clearly disagree with me but aren't insistent that I absolutely have to change it or leave. Pretty wild that it's only the people who proactively CHOSE to come into this thread to be angry are the only ones genuinely upset with my opinion.
 

One-Winged Bagel

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I'll say my quick two cents;

Fatnmanonice doesn't "need" to stop speculating. If he wants to believe Geno is still coming or something is odd, that's on him.

Likewise, and this is important; while Fatmanonice is no cult leader, there's no doubt his words do have clout. The second he says "my sources", he's going to be treated akin to a leaker. This makes him somebody people listen to. I'm aware the thread more or less doesn't actually do that, but people online still do and it does come up from time to time. Like, it's happened on here enough that the Mods stepped in because he was getting off-topic to note something he heard.

Let me clear up I do not consider what he's doing wrong or an issue whatsoever. But it is good to acknowledge that people are putting you up on a higher pedestal than you intended. And that's fine in the end. Your theories are based upon insider information. That's it. People mistake you for a leaker in return. That happens. It doesn't justify how people go harsh on Fatman either. That's not reasonable. There is nothing wrong with calling out problems with the theory, as long as it's polite and reasonable. Calling him things like delusional is neither polite nor reasonable(and it goes the other way around too. Aggressive replies to people disagreeing with him are just as bad).

To put the last bit into other words; if you post a theory in public, it's within the rights of other users to reply and dissect what you said. If you don't want replies to it, don't post it in public. Post it on a blog with no comments allowed. That's the point of a discussion forum here. It's not private, and anyone can reply. That doesn't mean you can't just say "Okay, let's move on" either. Cause sometimes you don't want to converse anymore and you want to keep your beliefs. That's fine, you know? Not everything has to drag on forever. Agree to disagree is an okay thing to do.

Okay, that wasn't quick, but that should explain my thoughts.
 
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