Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Dinoman96]

What worries me is that if Geno isn’t a Mii with Sephiroth, he might be a Mii with Waluigi.

Adding a fan requested character as a Mii Costume might have the blow softened if it is added in a fan requested character’s pack.

You don't have to worry. Waluigi will never be playable in Smash Bros.

 

[PatPrime]

So here's my hot take on all of that. What Sakurai has flat out told us is that Nintendo will cold call him or just show up and ask if he can include a specific character. He also told us Nintendo ultimately determines reveal and release for these fighters. Plus, for FP1, he did say that Nintendo chose the DLC but he had the final say if he could make a character work or not.

Throwing my own brain juices into that gumbo, I think what we can infer is that Nintendo has its list of who they want to see and/or promote, but Sakurai also has his own say and can reject Nintendo if he feels that the character is "difficult" or doesn't feel "right." Nintendo can then veto that rejection because, um, money and Sakurai has to figure it out. This was most evidence with Steve, where it was clear he enjoyed Minecraft and had given the character thought for a long time but didn't feel he could make it work until Nintendo probably forced him to. You can also kind of tell where Sakurai was at with each character by how he presents them to the audience. NONE of this is objective, all subjective, but felt like listing it out:

Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy - Fan demand that Nintendo and Sakurai bent for. Not much else here.

Ryu - Sakurai himself stated how much enjoyed SF2 and wanted to see how Ryu could work in Smash. This was probably a case of "Can I get this happening, Nintendo?" "Let's check the books... hmm... Ok, sure. We're launching his games on the Switch anyway"

Corrin & Bayo - 100% shills, I don't care what you think. They came from the Smash Ballot (allegedly) but conveniently also pumped recent games at the time. I believe they probably did make a splash on the ballot, but it was something where Nintendo saw an opportunity and Sakurai saw something to hide behind when he made them into playable fighters ("But you VOTED for them, remember?")

Cloud - 100% Sakurai. FF was one of the top requested ballot choices and Sakurai said in an interview he was given access to pretty much whatever protag he wanted, but he said "it had to be Cloud." This was a matter of Sakurai knowing the pulse of the gaming community pretty well. Yeah, some of us wanted Terra or Black Mage or whatever, but it really did have to be Cloud. There was no other option. As far as Nintendo's say, they probably just saw dollar signs and gave the thumbs up.

Joker - Sakurai enjoyed Persona 5 immensely (per interviews/social media). P5 was THE game leading up until the reveal. Joker did not get a Sakurai Presents video, but it's likely he was a fan. Seems to be a joint effort to get Joker in the game coming from both Sakurai and Nintendo. The lack of SMT content is super glaring and may point to Nintendo not thinking it was valuable to include at the time.

Hero - I think this is a similar position to Cloud, with some Corrin tossed in for good measure. DQ had to be highly requested and it made sense to include; Sakurai knew the gaming community was expecting it. Nintendo also saw an opportunity to work with a 3rd party developer and shill a game at the same time. Totally speculation here, but maybe everyone heard Erdrick because it was Erdrick until Nintendo added a stipulation that 11 had to be the main costume.

Banjo - This feels like NOA pushed for this character. Banjo is wildly popular in the West, while Rare games sort of... existed?... in Japan. I can see Nintendo of Japan basically saying "you're allowed ONE character, NOA" and Treehouse went "GUH-HUH" and that was it. Sakurai did NOT seem enthused about this character one bit during the Presents video, and I know I'm not the only one who caught that vibe. He knew the demand was there and spoke of the character in the past, somewhat highly too, but I would be shocked if Sakurai had Banjo on "the shortlist" of characters he absolutely wanted to put into the game. For what it's worth tho, Banjo feels like a throwback character in so many ways, so it's evidence Sakurai had thought about how they'd play for a while prior to Ultimate.

Terry - This one's clearly Sakurai bias, and that's fine. Nintendo probably threw him a bone and said "you get one, Mr. Sakurai." SNK had also been very supportive of the Switch since Day 1, so it only made sense. Sakurai extensively talked about this character and why, even throwing in that "just because you don't recognize someone doesn't mean they aren't a cool idea" line

Byleth - Corrin 2.0

Min Min - This feels like another Nintendo decision. They probably realized that ARMS sold decently enough but hadn't become another Splatoon like they wanted. Sakurai mentioned timing was off for including playable ARMS characters in Smash. Add these two together and it kind of paints the picture that Nintendo had wanted ARMS in base game and didn't get it in time. Sakurai also explained why he chose this specific character as well, and it boiled down to "I didn't know who to pick so I was going to pick the most generic fighter but I got told so uh... here's the one everyone loves instead."

Steve - Very well explained, imo, already. Sakurai sat on this for a while and couldn't come up with an idea. He was a fan, but didn't think it could work easily. Nintendo kept pushing him on it and finally he caved. End of story.

Sephiroth - This is likely several things, but most similar to Cloud. Nintendo probably approached or were approached by Square and the conversation led to getting another character. I bet the 7 Squares leak was legit and this had been cooking for a while. They settled on Sephiroth because of Sakurai bias and the fact that they knew this character would have mass appeal due to his legacy, plus he'd make $$$. Love it or hate it, Sephiroth was dumb popular on Japanese polls and he absolutely appeals to that Western boomer demographic moreso than Geno. Sakurai maybe always had Sephiroth in the back of his mind too, considering how much of a hard-on he clearly has for FF7.

I'm well aware it's more complicated than what I said. It is sort of just a biased feeling that I have regarding the dlc choices so far. We can't know for sure what was on Nintendo's and Sakurai's minds when deciding on most of these characters. I do agree with a good chunk of what you said though.

 

[Theguy123]

What really confuses me is that Nintendo copyrighted 2 music tracks for mario RPG which they don’t own, 2.

Let’s say Is the mii DX costume next week, there’s no way he’s coming with 2 music tracks because (1), sephiroph is probably only getting a few tracks and (2), no other deluxe mii costume has had more than 1 track so fats

If Geno avoids the mii costume then that leaves 2 options,

Nintendo negotiated for Geno and sephiroph, Geno being 1st party advertisement

Or Nintendo are just really really harsh and decided to upset fans that listen to the mario RPG tracks on yt

My question would be though if it’s the Nintendo being harsh reason, how are they able to do that, they don’t own the rights to the songs.

This leads me to believe there’s more to the Geno situation than we think.


I’ve said this a few times since yesterday, trying to keep people’s beliefs up since morale is quite low in here after sephiroph’s reveal. Hold hope till we see those mii costumes before defeat.

 

[Deleted member]

I have no idea how the rest of you long-haul chads can justify continuing to hope for Geno because of how long we've been hoping and getting burned, it's the ****ing stress point for me. I'd be less disappointed if I'd just jumped on the Geno bandwagon, sure, but the new blood shouldn't be strung along like we've been. They can look back on the history of this fanbase and see all of the empty platitudes Sakurai has thrown our way and all of the coincidences that we've had to endure and they sure as hell can decide for themselves that they don't want to be cattle led to slaughter like we've been. I commend them for it. Pick a horse that'll win, new guys.

I know I said I was going to wait until 12/17 to do this but **** it, there is absolutely zero chance that Geno's costume doesn't come back with Sephiroth and if it doesn't, I stand by what I said that they're just sweeping him under the rug. Believe it or not, I do read almost all of the comments in this thread even when we accumulate several tens of pages in one night. I see the high and mighty, the self righteous, the bootlickers who come here and say that we should appreciate every ****ing table scrap thrown our way, that somehow we should be just fine with a costume, or better still a ****ing "deluxe" one, and to you, I say unkindly **** right off and find a new hobby instead of trying to hold the moral high ground on the ****ing internet - I hear they're accepting at clown college and that'll probably fill your time.

Spoiler: I don't want this page to be 8 miles long

To all the people who want me to examine what kind of "fan" I am, despite the fact that you don't deserve a response, I can't help myself from putting at least 100 hooks in my mouth at any given time, I am a ****ing bait addict. I'll tell you what kind of fan I am, I'm the kind of fan that at age 9 picked up Super Smash Bros knowing good and god damn well that it was a multiplayer party game that I would likely never be able to enjoy as intended because I am an only child who, at the time, had 1 friend who was a stereotypical early 90s baby whose parents would not allow near a video game. I just wanted to know what it was about, how a game could possibly let me play as Mario and Link and Pikachu all in the same world, and I fell in love with it. I was introduced to Metroid, F-Zero and Earthbound through this game and because of the latter, I can say that Smash Bros 64 effectively changed my life.

I'm the kind of fan who bought a Gamecube on launch day and played Luigi's Mansion until Melee came out and then Melee almost never left my console. I had acquired exactly 1 more friend in those two years and this one played video games, so he and I played the everloving **** out of Melee and I began to learn about tournaments and the competitive scene of Smash at this point and I learned that I was absolute garbage at Melee and so stepped my game up tremendously over the following years. I never went to a single tournament because I was still so young, but it's safe to say that for the second time in its history, Smash as a franchise changed my life.

I'm the kind of fan who was up bright and early every morning, checking the Brawl Dojo before school or in my morning programming class if I didn't manage to wake up early enough to do it at home. Every day, I rooted for Geno or Isaac or Lloyd to show up, and after Lucas, I hoped for his adversary, Masked Man. I rode the ups and downs of that release cycle like everyone else, had my mind blown by Sonic and had my expectations slashed by the generic "check out this character's down tilt" posts or "look at this cool new item" ****. I was out here in the trenches when a true all star cast of characters was soiled by the oh so creative addition of R.O.B. and Toon Link. Beyond all of this, what kind of fan am I? I didn't take a hot steamy dump on everyone who wanted to play Brawl competitively. I gave it a fair shake and my first Smash tournaments were playing this beautiful trainwreck. I sat around and endured endless **** from Melee players because I enjoyed the roster over the mechanics. Did I switch to Brawl+ when it became available? **** yeah I did, to hell with tripping... But I looked forward to the future of the franchise.

I'm the kind of fan who hinged his decision to purchase a whole ass Wii U because they said of course Smash Bros was coming to it. Like Brawl before it, I was there every night on the Smash Dojo looking out, once again, for Geno. I was happy to see returning characters, thrilled by the addition of Mega Man, confused by the waifubait inclusions of Lucina and Palutena, angered at the concept of Mii Fighters, excited by Greninja, Shulk and Robin and ****ing heartbroken by the cut of Wolf, Snake and Lucas. The DLC cycle for Smash 4 was truly an exciting time for me because for the first time in Smash's history, after the game had come out we could hold onto hope. They brought Lucas back despite being a trophy and Ness having all of his moves, truly anything was possible... But Nintendo wanted to turn heads more than they wanted to please fans after Mewtwo and Lucas. I'm sure Cloud did both for some, but not for me, and the Geno costume... I don't think I was too upset. It was, at that time, hope. Hope, once again, to look forward to the future of the franchise.

Finally, I am the kind of fan who, despite being burnt on the fact that Bayonetta was added to Smash 4 with zero semblance of care for balance, despite being burnt on the quality of some of the Wii U's late-life releases (Star Fox Zero hurts me in ways I didn't think I could be hurt by video games), and despite being burnt by the fact that the Wii U sucked absolute ass... I picked up a Switch. Well after release, sure, but I still got a Switch because I trusted the quality of the games, what Nintendo would do for their fans. Despite thinking that Ultimate was going to be a Smash 4 port with some more DLC, I still held out a little hope for it, and when it was shown off at E3 with every character returning, I was hyped up. The massive roster that I had dreamed about since Melee was really becoming a reality... Almost everything from this point is so recent there's no need to describe it.

So if the fact that I don't sit down at the table and say with excitement "itadakimasu" when Nintendo serves me **** doesn't make me a fan despite all of this, then I don't want to be a fan.

You might be saying "how is Nintendo putting the most vapid antagonist of the most entry level Final Fantasy game into Smash 'serving [you] ****'", and all I have to say in response to that is that you simply will never understand how I feel. Sephiroth isn't ****, of course not. This is a massive reveal that pleases a lot more people than it disappoints and answers the question of "how do they outdo Steve?". But I didn't sign up to see Steve outdone. I didn't sign up to see ****ing Steve. There's a small handful of holes in Smash Ultimate that keep it from truly being "Ultimate" or even "Special" as the Japanese name implies, and those holes aren't filled by massive picks like this, they're filled by little guys that the Smash community has been requesting for over a decade. But fan polls mean nothing in the face of big money deals.

All of this DLC, even pass 1, has been mostly just head turning characters, nothing to appeal to fan requests. Joker? "Look at us, we got weeb garbage to join the roster before the fans got anything they asked for!" Hero? "Look at us we got the biggest RPG franchise in Japan to join the roster" Banjo? Banjo...

I'm ****ing bitter and I want to put these words on paper, and know that I mean them from the bottom of my heart - if you like Banjo then **** you. I hate you for the fact that you got your dumb cereal mascot from a trashy knockoff Mario 64 before we got virtually anyone else. This goes beyond Geno, ****ing Waluigi would have been a better pick than Banjo. I'm glad that he's just a ****ty Mario semi-clone that'll never amount to anything competitively because I ****ing hate looking at him and hearing his sound effects and his music. He was added as nothing more than yet another "look at us, we went to our direct competitor and shilled their console so we could pretend to appeal to fans but actually we just wanted to turn heads and be a media sensation", but blinded by nostalgia for an objectively awful pair of video games you guys think they finally listened to the fans for once. It's sad. And for the record? Geno could be the next three characters and I'd still feel this way about Banjo. **** him and **** his fans.

Terry is a genuine enigma and I'm glad they added him. Byleth needs no explanation.

I've said so many times that the DLC for Ultimate is about characters who have mechanics that are really unique. Joker has a semi-uncontrollable limit gauge that turns him from Sheik to Ganondorf, Hero has a whole ass spells menu, Banjo has... nothing really special, honestly. I guess the neutral B is unique but not really useful. Terry has fighting game inputs with a meter equivalent built in and Byleth is a Fire Emblem character with blue hair without a counter (who finally represents the variety of weapons available in the game). Min Min is like what if Mega Man's projectiles couldn't be reflected and Steve is so far out of the realm of plausible that he literally doesn't fit in with the rest of the cast. It really did feel like this was the development mindset, to make experiences unique to each character and put something special in the game, "and where did that bring you?"

Anime Swordsman: Back to me.

Seriously, they went out of their way to get the most iconic Final Fantasy villain right next to ****ing Kefka, put him and the full length of his massive tool in the game only to give him a ****ing counter. They're out of ideas and they clearly don't give a damn about unique characters or characters that are pushing the limit of the game's balance. **** me for being wrong about the one thing that would have spelt something good for Smash's future. They just want to turn heads or shill their own ****.

In the end, Ovaltine is right - this isn't on Square, this is on Nintendo. Nintendo didn't go to Square and say "gimme Geno" only for Square to say "Cloud first", they went to Square and said "gimme Cloud" and Square said "he's kind of old". This situation didn't happen with a single Square character. Nintendo asked for who we got and we got them. Nintendo ****ing hates the fact that Mario can be more than vapid platforming save the princess haha funny plumber fireballs go plt plt. They hate that Mario and his universe can be the vehicle of heartwarming stories with quirky dialogue that can evoke actual emotion from real humans, and above all, their pride as a company hates the fact that one of the most popular Mario characters of all time wasn't made by them. They never want us to be able to play as Geno again. Call it dooming all you want, it's the ****ing God's honest truth. If Nintendo wanted Geno, we would have had him three times by now.

That's what makes this **** sting even more. I've brought it up in the past but I'll bring it up again - there was an interview, long ago, where Sakurai said that he doesn't like to string people along or play with their expectations. Well, that was a ****ing lie because it is undeniable that our expectations have been played with and we've been strung along. If this was the plan all along then just put the ****ing Geno costume back in the game with Hero and end our ****ing misery. Let us ****ing rest from this endless speculation and harassment from internet randos and ****ing paid professionals moonlighting as insiders. Whoever's making these decisions up at Nintendo can rot in the deepest pit in hell for playing with the emotions of this fanbase and letting us be the whipping boys of an entire community. Thinking about it, hell's probably too nice of a place for them.

I hope Wynn is riding high right about now, he's a king and should be exalted like one.

And why do I want to throw Ultimate in the garbage and delete my account? Because Smash has changed. The future I imagined back in Melee was one in which Nintendo characters and maybe third party characters relevant to Nintendo's storied history would be added in droves to make this perfect dream fighting game... But we've gotten almost the exact opposite. Characters that mean nothing to Nintendo and in some cases have barely appeared on a Nintendo console get added in and the world goes ape**** for them, just a byproduct of the corruption of the wish that everyone liked video games.

As it stands right now, I look at the roster and it makes me ****ing angry. Who the hell is Bayonetta? Corrin? Piranha Plant? Incineroar? Joker? Byleth? Why the hell did someone photoshop Minecraft Steve onto this character select screen and make me accept it as real? I just can't with this ****. The pandemic has robbed me of the joys that Smash brought into my life and they can't be replaced with the shoddy online, and even when it inevitably ends and things can return to normal, the damage of the character picks is going to remain. The world is give and take, and I feel like all I've gotten is the "take" half of it. All I have to look forward to in the Smash section of my life is going back to a tournament in which a bunch of zoomers are playing ****ing Steve and Sans Undertale and I've gotten a big fat goose egg when it comes to characters I want that can balance out this nightmare. I don't want to suffer hearing Steve's victory screen when I can't move that cursor on the character select screen over to someone that I genuinely begged to have added to the game. I just don't want to put up with it. Again, if you can't understand my sentiments here, whatever, you just won't ever understand it.

I just want to put all of this behind me and pretend I never cared. I'm tired of losing and I'd rather pretend that I won.

Once again, this image that I saved all the way back in the grinch days haunts me. It was real all along, obviously provided by a time traveler.

 

[PatPrime]

I cant tell what youve seen, but i havent really seen anyone here "downplaying" sephiroth's importance. I think everyone here is well aware that sephiroth is an icon in his own right, but like... at least for me... that doesnt really matter. This is a geno thread, so obviously a lot of people are underwhelmed.
I honestly didnt even watch the trailer live, i just came here as soon as i saw it was sephiroth because i just wasnt really interested in the character.

This is how I feel about a lot of Smash choices over the years. Cloud, Ryu, Hero, Sephiroth, etc. are characters I'm WELL AWARE that are big deals but if I don't care about them, why should I care if they are big deals? Everyone has their personal favorites. Of course you shouldn't be rude to others but why should I really care about a character that lots of people care for except for me?

 

[ForsakenM]

I have no idea how the rest of you long-haul chads can justify continuing to hope for Geno because of how long we've been hoping and getting burned, it's the ****ing stress point for me. I'd be less disappointed if I'd just jumped on the Geno bandwagon, sure, but the new blood shouldn't be strung along like we've been. They can look back on the history of this fanbase and see all of the empty platitudes Sakurai has thrown our way and all of the coincidences that we've had to endure and they sure as hell can decide for themselves that they don't want to be cattle led to slaughter like we've been. I commend them for it. Pick a horse that'll win, new guys.

View attachment 295102

I know I said I was going to wait until 12/17 to do this but ** it, there is absolutely zero chance that Geno's costume doesn't come back with Sephiroth and if it doesn't, I stand by what I said that they're just sweeping him under the rug. Believe it or not, I do read almost all of the comments in this thread even when we accumulate several tens of pages in one night. I see the high and mighty, the self righteous, the bootlickers who come here and say that we should appreciate every ***ing table scrap thrown our way, that somehow we should be just fine with a costume, or better still a ****ing "deluxe" one, and to you, I say unkindly * right off and find a new hobby instead of trying to hold the moral high ground on the ****ing internet - I hear they're accepting at clown college and that'll probably fill your time.

Spoiler: I don't want this page to be 8 miles long

To all the people who want me to examine what kind of "fan" I am, despite the fact that you don't deserve a response, I can't help myself from putting at least 100 hooks in my mouth at any given time, I am a ****ing bait addict. I'll tell you what kind of fan I am, I'm the kind of fan that at age 9 picked up Super Smash Bros knowing good and god damn well that it was a multiplayer party game that I would likely never be able to enjoy as intended because I am an only child who, at the time, had 1 friend who was a stereotypical early 90s baby whose parents would not allow near a video game. I just wanted to know what it was about, how a game could possibly let me play as Mario and Link and Pikachu all in the same world, and I fell in love with it. I was introduced to Metroid, F-Zero and Earthbound through this game and because of the latter, I can say that Smash Bros 64 effectively changed my life.

I'm the kind of fan who bought a Gamecube on launch day and played Luigi's Mansion until Melee came out and then Melee almost never left my console. I had acquired exactly 1 more friend in those two years and this one played video games, so he and I played the everloving **** out of Melee and I began to learn about tournaments and the competitive scene of Smash at this point and I learned that I was absolute garbage at Melee and so stepped my game up tremendously over the following years. I never went to a single tournament because I was still so young, but it's safe to say that for the second time in its history, Smash as a franchise changed my life.

I'm the kind of fan who was up bright and early every morning, checking the Brawl Dojo before school or in my morning programming class if I didn't manage to wake up early enough to do it at home. Every day, I rooted for Geno or Isaac or Lloyd to show up, and after Lucas, I hoped for his adversary, Masked Man. I rode the ups and downs of that release cycle like everyone else, had my mind blown by Sonic and had my expectations slashed by the generic "check out this character's down tilt" posts or "look at this cool new item" . I was out here in the trenches when a true all star cast of characters was soiled by the oh so creative addition of R.O.B. and Toon Link. Beyond all of this, what kind of fan am I? I didn't take a hot steamy dump on everyone who wanted to play Brawl competitively. I gave it a fair shake and my first Smash tournaments were playing this beautiful trainwreck. I sat around and endured endless from Melee players because I enjoyed the roster over the mechanics. Did I switch to Brawl+ when it became available? ** yeah I did, to hell with tripping... But I looked forward to the future of the franchise.

I'm the kind of fan who hinged his decision to purchase a whole ass Wii U because they said of course Smash Bros was coming to it. Like Brawl before it, I was there every night on the Smash Dojo looking out, once again, for Geno. I was happy to see returning characters, thrilled by the addition of Mega Man, confused by the waifubait inclusions of Lucina and Palutena, angered at the concept of Mii Fighters, excited by Greninja, Shulk and Robin and ****ing heartbroken by the cut of Wolf, Snake and Lucas. The DLC cycle for Smash 4 was truly an exciting time for me because for the first time in Smash's history, after the game had come out we could hold onto hope. They brought Lucas back despite being a trophy and Ness having all of his moves, truly anything was possible... But Nintendo wanted to turn heads more than they wanted to please fans after Mewtwo and Lucas. I'm sure Cloud did both for some, but not for me, and the Geno costume... I don't think I was too upset. It was, at that time, hope. Hope, once again, to look forward to the future of the franchise.

Finally, I am the kind of fan who, despite being burnt on the fact that Bayonetta was added to Smash 4 with zero semblance of care for balance, despite being burnt on the quality of some of the Wii U's late-life releases (Star Fox Zero hurts me in ways I didn't think I could be hurt by video games), and despite being burnt by the fact that the Wii U sucked absolute ass... I picked up a Switch. Well after release, sure, but I still got a Switch because I trusted the quality of the games, what Nintendo would do for their fans. Despite thinking that Ultimate was going to be a Smash 4 port with some more DLC, I still held out a little hope for it, and when it was shown off at E3 with every character returning, I was hyped up. The massive roster that I had dreamed about since Melee was really becoming a reality... Almost everything from this point is so recent there's no need to describe it.

So if the fact that I don't sit down at the table and say with excitement "itadakimasu" when Nintendo serves me **** doesn't make me a fan despite all of this, then I don't want to be a fan.

You might be saying "how is Nintendo putting the most vapid antagonist of the most entry level Final Fantasy game into Smash 'serving [you] *'", and all I have to say in response to that is that you simply will never understand how I feel. Sephiroth isn't *, of course not. This is a massive reveal that pleases a lot more people than it disappoints and answers the question of "how do they outdo Steve?". But I didn't sign up to see Steve outdone. I didn't sign up to see ****ing Steve. There's a small handful of holes in Smash Ultimate that keep it from truly being "Ultimate" or even "Special" as the Japanese name implies, and those holes aren't filled by massive picks like this, they're filled by little guys that the Smash community has been requesting for over a decade. But fan polls mean nothing in the face of big money deals.

All of this DLC, even pass 1, has been mostly just head turning characters, nothing to appeal to fan requests. Joker? "Look at us, we got weeb garbage to join the roster before the fans got anything they asked for!" Hero? "Look at us we got the biggest RPG franchise in Japan to join the roster" Banjo? Banjo...

I'm ing bitter and I want to put these words on paper, and know that I mean them from the bottom of my heart - if you like Banjo then you. I hate you for the fact that you got your dumb cereal mascot from a trashy knockoff Mario 64 before we got virtually anyone else. This goes beyond Geno, ing Waluigi would have been a better pick than Banjo. I'm glad that he's just a ty Mario semi-clone that'll never amount to anything competitively because I ****ing hate looking at him and hearing his sound effects and his music. He was added as nothing more than yet another "look at us, we went to our direct competitor and shilled their console so we could pretend to appeal to fans but actually we just wanted to turn heads and be a media sensation", but blinded by nostalgia for an objectively awful pair of video games you guys think they finally listened to the fans for once. It's sad. And for the record? Geno could be the next three characters and I'd still feel this way about Banjo. * him and * his fans.

Terry is a genuine enigma and I'm glad they added him. Byleth needs no explanation.

I've said so many times that the DLC for Ultimate is about characters who have mechanics that are really unique. Joker has a semi-uncontrollable limit gauge that turns him from Sheik to Ganondorf, Hero has a whole ass spells menu, Banjo has... nothing really special, honestly. I guess the neutral B is unique but not really useful. Terry has fighting game inputs with a meter equivalent built in and Byleth is a Fire Emblem character with blue hair without a counter (who finally represents the variety of weapons available in the game). Min Min is like what if Mega Man's projectiles couldn't be reflected and Steve is so far out of the realm of plausible that he literally doesn't fit in with the rest of the cast. It really did feel like this was the development mindset, to make experiences unique to each character and put something special in the game, "and where did that bring you?"

Anime Swordsman: Back to me.

Seriously, they went out of their way to get the most iconic Final Fantasy villain right next to ing Kefka, put him and the full length of his massive tool in the game only to give him a **ing counter. They're out of ideas and they clearly don't give a damn about unique characters or characters that are pushing the limit of the game's balance. * me for being wrong about the one thing that would have spelt something good for Smash's future. They just want to turn heads or shill their own *.

In the end, Ovaltine is right - this isn't on Square, this is on Nintendo. Nintendo didn't go to Square and say "gimme Geno" only for Square to say "Cloud first", they went to Square and said "gimme Cloud" and Square said "he's kind of old". This situation didn't happen with a single Square character. Nintendo asked for who we got and we got them. Nintendo ****ing hates the fact that Mario can be more than vapid platforming save the princess haha funny plumber fireballs go plt plt. They hate that Mario and his universe can be the vehicle of heartwarming stories with quirky dialogue that can evoke actual emotion from real humans, and above all, their pride as a company hates the fact that one of the most popular Mario characters of all time wasn't made by them. They never want us to be able to play as Geno again. Call it dooming all you want, it's the ****ing God's honest truth. If Nintendo wanted Geno, we would have had him three times by now.

That's what makes this **** sting even more. I've brought it up in the past but I'll bring it up again - there was an interview, long ago, where Sakurai said that he doesn't like to string people along or play with their expectations. Well, that was a ****ing lie because it is undeniable that our expectations have been played with and we've been strung along. If this was the plan all along then just put the ****ing Geno costume back in the game with Hero and end our ****ing misery. Let us ****ing rest from this endless speculation and harassment from internet randos and ****ing paid professionals moonlighting as insiders. Whoever's making these decisions up at Nintendo can rot in the deepest pit in hell for playing with the emotions of this fanbase and letting us be the whipping boys of an entire community. Thinking about it, hell's probably too nice of a place for them.

I hope Wynn is riding high right about now, he's a king and should be exalted like one.

And why do I want to throw Ultimate in the garbage and delete my account? Because Smash has changed. The future I imagined back in Melee was one in which Nintendo characters and maybe third party characters relevant to Nintendo's storied history would be added in droves to make this perfect dream fighting game... But we've gotten almost the exact opposite. Characters that mean nothing to Nintendo and in some cases have barely appeared on a Nintendo console get added in and the world goes ape**** for them, just a byproduct of the corruption of the wish that everyone liked video games.

As it stands right now, I look at the roster and it makes me *ing angry. Who the hell is Bayonetta? Corrin? Piranha Plant? Incineroar? Joker? Byleth? Why the hell did someone photoshop Minecraft Steve onto this character select screen and make me accept it as real? I just can't with this *. The pandemic has robbed me of the joys that Smash brought into my life and they can't be replaced with the shoddy online, and even when it inevitably ends and things can return to normal, the damage of the character picks is going to remain. The world is give and take, and I feel like all I've gotten is the "take" half of it. All I have to look forward to in the Smash section of my life is going back to a tournament in which a bunch of zoomers are playing ****ing Steve and Sans Undertale and I've gotten a big fat goose egg when it comes to characters I want that can balance out this nightmare. I don't want to suffer hearing Steve's victory screen when I can't move that cursor on the character select screen over to someone that I genuinely begged to have added to the game. I just don't want to put up with it. Again, if you can't understand my sentiments here, whatever, you just won't ever understand it.

I just want to put all of this behind me and pretend I never cared. I'm tired of losing and I'd rather pretend that I won.

Once again, this image that I saved all the way back in the grinch days haunts me. It was real all along, obviously provided by a time traveler.
View attachment 295113

No offense, but I'm not reading all of this because I know what it is.

It's an overreaction by a regular doomposter who acts super entitled and didn't get their way yet again so they have decided that an amazing game with amazing DLC isn't worth it somehow, all over a puppet who hasn't mattered since 1996. It's not all about you, or me, or Geno. Other characters exist and people like them in much bigger droves than us who like Geno.

As a Geno fan, I can now tell for certain that GameFAQs uses your posts on a projector to educate their users on what a 'stupid and deranged Geno fan' looks like.

You are gonna look real dumb by the end of the Smash DLC. Once Geno does get in, if you come back here, you are gonna live with the fact that you acted like this for the rest of your life. That sucks, mate.

EDIT: I'm with you on those saying we should just be down with the costume though. **** 'em, no matter who they are.

 

[Enigma735]

Even though I was beyond disappointed with that reveal, easily the best part for me was to see some more CGI Banjo action, and I knew I just had to make "shooketh Banjo" my new profile picture, especially to represent my reaction to the recent trailer.

But on the flip side, I have thought long and hard about this, and considering the way I reacted yesterday, I think taking a break from Smash speculation would be a great idea for me. As someone who has really bad anxiety as it is, I think taking a much needed break from Smash speculation and Smash as a whole would be a benefit for my mental health. Of course I'm gonna watch the Sephiroth presentation and of course I'm gonna try him out, but I think taking this much needed break is what I really need right now, for my sake.

I wanna thank each and every single one of you for making this speculation so much fun. I will say this countless times again, I have never had as much fun speculating Smash as I did with you guys. I have made so much friends and memories by coming over to this thread each and every single day, going over all the theories, rumors, fan-art, memes, I'm gonna miss a lot of that. Even though this may be the end of our journey, I will never truly give up on Geno. He may not get in Ultimate, but I guarantee, we will have our sweet, and victorious victory one of these days.

Seriously, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

 

[AdamBel731]

We thought Geno was 100% coming with Hero, right? I mean that was the sole Square Enix character of the DLC, pack it up guys.

...except it didn't happen. Most of the thread rallies beind Fatmanonice , yes? Well why not listen to him when he says to just simply wait? I'm sure he knows the chances for the costume to show up are there, but there ARE still things in Geno's favor. I don't think Fatmanonice or I want to give false hope (I know many are battered and bruised), but just try and hold on for a little longer until you get a definitive answer.

I don't want to tell people what to do, you're free to leave, but Hero didn't bring Geno with him, so I don't see why it is a fact of life that Sephiroth has to.

 

[S1itchey]

No, absolutely not.

#FreeMelee was spammed in the VGAs chat all night long, as if the movement wasn't annoying and misinformed enough.

We don't need Geno attached to a movement that promotes misunderstanding situations, ignorance, and anger at an entire company over taking appropriate legal actions like they always have and just NOW happen to get flamed heavily for it of all times.

Oops accidentally double post

 

[Deleted member]

No offense, but I'm not reading all of this because I know what it is.

It's an overreaction by a regular doomposter who acts super entitled and didn't get their way yet again so they have decided that an amazing game with amazing DLC isn't worth it somehow, all over a puppet who hasn't mattered since 1996. It's not all about you, or me, or Geno. Other characters exist and people like them in much bigger droves than us who like Geno.

As a Geno fan, I can now tell for certain that GameFAQs uses your posts on a projector to educate their users on what a 'stupid and deranged Geno fan' looks like.

You are gonna look real dumb by the end of the Smash DLC. Once Geno does get in, if you come back here, you are gonna live with the fact that you acted like this for the rest of your life. That sucks, mate.

EDIT: I'm with you on those saying we should just be down with the costume though. **** 'em, no matter who they are.

Damn, you must think I live a charmed life if you think I'm going to "live with" my posts on Smashboards with any form of regret vs all of the other things I have to "live with" including but not limited to my self ****ing hatred.

I will especially enjoy seeing you eat your words when that ass ugly costume shows up on the 17th, because you've talked mad **** for a guy in a sinking ship like the rest of us.

 

[S1itchey]

No, absolutely not.

#FreeMelee was spammed in the VGAs chat all night long, as if the movement wasn't annoying and misinformed enough.

We don't need Geno attached to a movement that promotes misunderstanding situations, ignorance, and anger at an entire company over taking appropriate legal actions like they always have and just NOW happen to get flamed heavily for it of all times.

I was joking. Just making fun of the #freemelee ****show that's going on right now

 

[Morgana J. Cat]

Mock-up made by Korno renders on Twitter

Pretty much resembles how we (or at least most of us) feel about last night’s mess.

But don’t give up your hopes just yet. Hell, I used to be sure Conker was gonna get Mii costumed on the Steve gameplay presentation and thankfully nothing happened.

 

[StarLight42]

i’m assuming they just erroneously assumed Nintendo fans wouldn’t catch onto this, and I really doubt we’re getting another reveal that soon, but eh, here, have some speculation fuel. I know it means nothing for geno, but I thought i’d post it anyways

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

However anyone is feeling in here is warranted unless you're one of the "I told you so, this is what you guys get for supporting a character's inclusion into a video game" e-points weirdos. Being a Geno fan sucks but we endure. There is no "losing" in support of a character and anyone who tells you otherwise is a small and insecure person. I had about a 30 minute poopy diaper tantrum over the trailer last night but honestly either way I'll find peace with some closure by next Thursday either way.

I certainly feel pessimistic as well as anger towards all parties involved, including Sakurai himself ("Nintendo chose DLC" is a ****ing copout. Anyone who looks at the DLC choices so far can tell how much weight Sakurai has. If he truly wants a character they get in). I'm still interested in Thursday. If Geno is a costume in Sephiroth's pack then I can finally stop following character speculation and on the off chance he only comes with only FF mii costumes I can hurl my own feces up into the air and celebrate. We were in a similar situation with Hero and even though it's not a 1:1 comparison there is a chance lightning strikes twice leaving Geno off the costume list.

I'll see how it plays out. Regardless, I wish I held off on buying FP2 like I did for FP1. What a waste of ****ing money it's been for myself personally.

 

[ForsakenM]

Damn, you must think I live a charmed life if you think I'm going to "live with" my posts on Smashboards with any form of regret vs all of the other things I have to "live with" including but not limited to my self ****ing hatred.

I will especially enjoy seeing you eat your words when that ass ugly costume shows up on the 17th, because you've talked mad **** for a guy in a sinking ship like the rest of us.

Not to be rude, but at least you've made it obvious now that you have some self-issues that I was sure was made apparent by the way you've always reacted to things, so I hope you take the steps to get some help with that because it's definitely not healthy.

You've now gone into a spiral HOPING that the costume comes back just so that a FELLOW GENO FAN can get comeuppance for being positive about Geno's chances even in this light and calling you out on your rampant negativity and entitled attitude.

Just making that clear here.

 

[Joshdabozz]

I'm really liking the positivity of this thread although I cant say i feel the same. For me at this point geno is dead. Square doesn't give a *. Nintendo doesn't give a *. Who knows if sakurai even gives a ****. This just feels dirty. Not just to us but to other fans who wanted square characters. They had sora, geno, chrono, 2b, Lara Croft and they chose a second ff7 character. Thanks square and nintendo.

I respectfully disagree about the following quote from your comment. "Who knows if sakurai even gives a ****." Sakurai has wanted Geno/thought about putting Geno in multiple times, he certainly gives a F**k about Geno.

 

[Andwooooo]

I’m honestly not ready to throw in the towel just yet. We’ve got a week of nervous speculation until Geno’s costume gets revealed, but until then, I should remind you of a few things:

Mii Costume Guy’s list featuring Mallow and Smithy. I can see Mallow being revealed in the next Sakurai Presents, but not Smithy. I just can’t imagine Sephiroth giving us three Mario RPG costumes whatsoever. Let’s also not forget that CacoMallow still hasn’t been disproven yet.

GameStop’s haphazard “when Geno got revealed” admission and subsequent backtrack once they realized their mistake. There’s no way they were referring to a Mii fighter costume that had yet to return or a spirit that was never officially revealed.

The way I see it, Sephiroth could be a way for Square to rectify the horribleness that was Cloud’s inclusion—more spirits, more Mii fighters, and most importantly, more music. Giving Sephiroth and Cloud their English voices would be icing on the cake, but seeings how Sephiroth and Cloud both spoke Japanese in his trailer, I’m doubting that.

Ideally, Sephiroth would come with Chocobo Hat, Tifa (Brawler), Barret (Gunner), and three other FF characters (maybe Squall, Lightning, and Noctis). But, more likely is Chocobo Hat and Geno—maybe as a deluxe costume.

Fact of the matter is... I’m not ready to give in just yet. Not until I see Geno’s costume.

 

[Deleted member]

Not to be rude, but at least you've made it obvious now that you have some self-issues that I was sure was made apparent by the way you've always reacted to things, so I hope you take the steps to get some help with that because it's definitely not healthy.

You've now gone into a spiral HOPING that the costume comes back just so that a FELLOW GENO FAN can get comeuppance for being positive about Geno's chances even in this light and calling you out on your rampant negativity and entitled attitude.

Just making that clear here.

Fellow Geno fan or not, There's some of us in this community that maybe never deserved him in the first place.

You can decide if I'm talking about one or both of us.

 

[MattOnwheels]

Guys, look: Here's the reality of it:

- Geno didn't get revealed

- Sephiroth did

- No, this does not mean Geno cannot still make it in

- Yes, it makes it now a very unlikely possibility

- No, Nintendo does not "Hate us" - at least, no more than the rest of their fan base which they certainly don't care about

- No, Sephiroth is not "Just another Anime swordsman lol" - He's arguably one of the quintessential JRPG villains of all time from the game that influenced an entire generation of JRPG players in the west. His spot is well deserved, even if it means we have an uphill battle ahead of us in order to get ours.

The fact of the matter is, there are still spots left and no one should assume anything is set in stone until after the 17th. Even then, we soon may have to start coming to terms with the fact that Geno may very well not be a playable fighter in ultimate, and honestly? When you think about it, losing out to Sephiroth is okay. There's no reason why he can't be in the game when ultimate has already set a precedent for villain representation, and between the two characters I think we can say objectively that Sephiroth resonates with more people than Geno, so in the grand scheme of things if Geno had to lose "His spot" to anyone, I'm glad it was him. There's nothing bad about the pick other than the fact it wasn't what we hoped, but now we have to accept it and look forward. We've got to take whatever happens next in stride and see it through with our heads held high.

All i want is for you all to not feel cheated or upset, no matter what. Geno's support will live on even if it's not validated in Ultimate. Just try to be at peace with the fact the game is still outstanding, and that we did all we could to hold onto hope till the end and kept it classy to everyone. That's what matters. We won't be the only fan base hurting if our pick isn't in when all is said and done, and there was always going to be those that never made it. Just because we may now be more likely to end up on the negative side of that doesn't mean we can't look back and be thankful for the crazy ride.

No matter what, I'm glad I'm still here with you all and I'll be here at the very end, Geno or not. Nothing we can do now but see how the finale plays out together.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Technically it's only fan rules that are making us believe Geno is out and it was fan rules that made us believe that Sephiroth probably couldn't make it. All we can do is wait to see if he ends up a mii

 

[Aerospherology]

Forgot about this until now.
Dangit.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Jesus. Can we stop all this infighting, or at least tone it down a bit? In less than a week, we either walk away with a corpse, or newfound hope. It's good to debate and all that, but I think having hope-as well as feeling defeated-is justified.

 

[JarBear]

Although I am 99.99% that Geno is coming back as Mii costume personally, there is an interesting thing about the trailer at the beginning. We see both rosalina and banjo in it. Why those two? Banjo, the long time fan request and Rosalina, the possible “higher authority” for Geno. Again, this is just an interesting decision to make to have those two and I’m 99.99% sure it means nothing.

I’m sure nintendo will soon specify the Tweet that sakurai will only talk about the one winged angel. Or don’t care about specifying it.

or we can be surprised by something new. Who would have guessed the reveal last night?

 

[GenoToto]

Guys, look: Here's the reality of it:

- Geno didn't get revealed

- Sephiroth did

- No, this does not mean Geno cannot still make it in

- Yes, it makes it now a very unlikely possibility

- No, Nintendo does not "Hate us" - at least, no more than the rest of their fan base which they certainly don't care about

- No, Sephiroth is not "Just another Anime swordsman lol" - He's arguably one of the quintessential JRPG villains of all time from the game that influenced an entire generation of JRPG players in the west. His spot is well deserved, even if it means we have an uphill battle ahead of us in order to get ours.

The fact of the matter is, there are still spots left and no one should assume anything is set in stone until after the 17th, but even then we very well may have to start coming to terms with the fact that Geno may very well not be a playable fighter in ultimate, and honestly? When you think about it, losing out to Sephiroth is okay. There's no reason why he can't be in the game when ultimate has already set an precedent for villain representation, and between the two characters I think we can say objectively that Sephiroth resonates with more people than Geno, so in the grand scheme of things if Geno had to lose "His spot" to anyone, i'm glad it was him. There's nothing bad about the pick other than the fact it wasn't what we hoped, but now we have to accept it and look forward. We've got to take whatever happens next in stride and see it through with our heads held high.

All i want is for you all to not feel cheated or upset, no matter what. Geno's support will live on even if it's not validated in Ultimate. Just try to be at peace with the fact the game is still outstanding, and that we did all we could to hold onto hope till the end and kept it classy to everyone. That's what matters. We won't be the only fan base hurting if our pick isn't in when all is said and done, and there was always going to be those that never made it. Just because we may now be more likely to end up on the negative side of that doesn't mean we can't look back and be thankful for the crazy ride.

No matter what, im glad im still here with you all and i'll be here at the very end, Geno or not. Nothing we can do now but see how the finale plays out together.

This is kinda where I'm at right now. Matt's reality is basically my reality, and frankly, I'm content. Maybe the 17th will bring a pleasant surprise, or maybe it'll be another nail in the coffin; We won't know until then. But, regardless of this fact, I am essentially 100% on the same train of thought, here. This is some good words to stand by, I think.

 

[RingJ5]

I thought someone earlier in the thread apparently checked the Japanese video description and that confirmed the length and no new fighters thing.

 

[Joshdabozz]

So here's my hot take on all of that. What Sakurai has flat out told us is that Nintendo will cold call him or just show up and ask if he can include a specific character. He also told us Nintendo ultimately determines reveal and release for these fighters. Plus, for FP1, he did say that Nintendo chose the DLC but he had the final say if he could make a character work or not.

Throwing my own brain juices into that gumbo, I think what we can infer is that Nintendo has its list of who they want to see and/or promote, but Sakurai also has his own say and can reject Nintendo if he feels that the character is "difficult" or doesn't feel "right." Nintendo can then veto that rejection because, um, money and Sakurai has to figure it out. This was most evidence with Steve, where it was clear he enjoyed Minecraft and had given the character thought for a long time but didn't feel he could make it work until Nintendo probably forced him to. You can also kind of tell where Sakurai was at with each character by how he presents them to the audience. NONE of this is objective, all subjective, but felt like listing it out:

Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy - Fan demand that Nintendo and Sakurai bent for. Not much else here.

Ryu - Sakurai himself stated how much enjoyed SF2 and wanted to see how Ryu could work in Smash. This was probably a case of "Can I get this happening, Nintendo?" "Let's check the books... hmm... Ok, sure. We're launching his games on the Switch anyway"

Corrin & Bayo - 100% shills, I don't care what you think. They came from the Smash Ballot (allegedly) but conveniently also pumped recent games at the time. I believe they probably did make a splash on the ballot, but it was something where Nintendo saw an opportunity and Sakurai saw something to hide behind when he made them into playable fighters ("But you VOTED for them, remember?")

Cloud - 100% Sakurai. FF was one of the top requested ballot choices and Sakurai said in an interview he was given access to pretty much whatever protag he wanted, but he said "it had to be Cloud." This was a matter of Sakurai knowing the pulse of the gaming community pretty well. Yeah, some of us wanted Terra or Black Mage or whatever, but it really did have to be Cloud. There was no other option. As far as Nintendo's say, they probably just saw dollar signs and gave the thumbs up.

Joker - Sakurai enjoyed Persona 5 immensely (per interviews/social media). P5 was THE game leading up until the reveal. Joker did not get a Sakurai Presents video, but it's likely he was a fan. Seems to be a joint effort to get Joker in the game coming from both Sakurai and Nintendo. The lack of SMT content is super glaring and may point to Nintendo not thinking it was valuable to include at the time.

Hero - I think this is a similar position to Cloud, with some Corrin tossed in for good measure. DQ had to be highly requested and it made sense to include; Sakurai knew the gaming community was expecting it. Nintendo also saw an opportunity to work with a 3rd party developer and shill a game at the same time. Totally speculation here, but maybe everyone heard Erdrick because it was Erdrick until Nintendo added a stipulation that 11 had to be the main costume.

Banjo - This feels like NOA pushed for this character. Banjo is wildly popular in the West, while Rare games sort of... existed?... in Japan. I can see Nintendo of Japan basically saying "you're allowed ONE character, NOA" and Treehouse went "GUH-HUH" and that was it. Sakurai did NOT seem enthused about this character one bit during the Presents video, and I know I'm not the only one who caught that vibe. He knew the demand was there and spoke of the character in the past, somewhat highly too, but I would be shocked if Sakurai had Banjo on "the shortlist" of characters he absolutely wanted to put into the game. For what it's worth tho, Banjo feels like a throwback character in so many ways, so it's evidence Sakurai had thought about how they'd play for a while prior to Ultimate.

Terry - This one's clearly Sakurai bias, and that's fine. Nintendo probably threw him a bone and said "you get one, Mr. Sakurai." SNK had also been very supportive of the Switch since Day 1, so it only made sense. Sakurai extensively talked about this character and why, even throwing in that "just because you don't recognize someone doesn't mean they aren't a cool idea" line

Byleth - Corrin 2.0

Min Min - This feels like another Nintendo decision. They probably realized that ARMS sold decently enough but hadn't become another Splatoon like they wanted. Sakurai mentioned timing was off for including playable ARMS characters in Smash. Add these two together and it kind of paints the picture that Nintendo had wanted ARMS in base game and didn't get it in time. Sakurai also explained why he chose this specific character as well, and it boiled down to "I didn't know who to pick so I was going to pick the most generic fighter but I got told so uh... here's the one everyone loves instead."

Steve - Very well explained, imo, already. Sakurai sat on this for a while and couldn't come up with an idea. He was a fan, but didn't think it could work easily. Nintendo kept pushing him on it and finally he caved. End of story.

Sephiroth - This is likely several things, but most similar to Cloud. Nintendo probably approached or were approached by Square and the conversation led to getting another character. I bet the 7 Squares leak was legit and this had been cooking for a while. They settled on Sephiroth because of Sakurai bias and the fact that they knew this character would have mass appeal due to his legacy, plus he'd make $$$. Love it or hate it, Sephiroth was dumb popular on Japanese polls and he absolutely appeals to that Western boomer demographic moreso than Geno. Sakurai maybe always had Sephiroth in the back of his mind too, considering how much of a hard-on he clearly has for FF7.

There are three points I disagree with, The Banjo point, the Byleth point, and the Min Min point.

Sakurai to me was enthusiastic about Banjo and has shown support for him over the years, so that's why I disagree with that point entirely.

Byleth I feel like was in development for the base game, but got pushed back, Nintendo most certainly pushed for it, but not in the way you mentioned.

Sakurai wanted Arms in the base game, kinda obvious, and he asked Arms creative director who he wanted, he wanted Min Min. Sakurai wanted Ninjara

 

[Blankiturayman]

Hey guys, haven't posted in here in a while. All I really have to say is that now I'll be waiting for the presentation, both to look at Sephiroth more in detail because he looked pretty cool, and to be wary for the final section. Who knows how it'll go. Best of luck for whatever happens.

 

[AugustusB]

I thought someone earlier in the thread apparently checked the Japanese video description and that confirmed the length and no new fighters thing.

I remember hearing that as well, but I cannot find it for the life of me. It wasn't on NoJ's twitter unless it is further down in the thread

 

[Ovaltine]

I honestly feel like hte lesson here is not to rely on Nintendo to give you the content you want. I know it'd be great if they did, but especially with how C&D-happy they are and how much they refuse to give the Mario RPGs another glance, it'd be silly for me (again, for me, y'all can think what you want) to think that Nintendo may one day provide. I'm not ruling it out — they could surprise us — but I'd rather proceed with the mindset of the Mario RPGs and its beloved characters (outside of nu-Paper Mario) being dead,

That's why I encourage everyone to make content. If Nintendo won't, nothing will stop us from it... except for C&D's. Considering that point, however, with how scummy of a business Nintendo has been to its fans, I really don't care if people step on the toes of the poor, rich businessmen with expensive cars and massive houses. Just be careful not to let anything get the spotlight too early, giving Nintendo reason to bring an end to projects before they're done. Work on the downlow. I have a lot of ideas that the fans could bring to fruition, and while my talents only lie in artwork and writing, I would be happy to help. On top of that, continue supporting Operation Starfall. Remember that the project isn't only based on Smash, after all. It encompasses SMRPG as a whole.

There are a lot of things that could be done, though! If Nintendo won't make that Geno content we want, why can't we? Here's some of my ideas:

1) A mod for Super Mario 64. Considering how healthy this game's modding community is, I think this is incredibly plausible. Better yet is the idea that we could create a mod for Geno AND for Mallow. Y'all also know about the Super Mario 64 Star Road hack by Skelux, right? I wonder if we could contact the guy and see about adding Geno and Mallow into either that or a related future hack via some collaboration? It'd be perfect, given Star Road's obvious involvement in the plot. This would also give Geno and Mallow a lot of spotlight they otherwise wouldn't reach. I wish I had SM64 modding capabilities myself or 3D modeling expertise, because if I did, I would have done this a long time ago. I even have ideas on how they'd play and control in the game. It'd be awesome.

2) A mod for Smash Ultimate. This is already super obvious. IIRC, there's one that someone is already tinkering with, right? Let's see that through.

3) Making our own Mario RPGs. This is the one that'd be especially crucial for Nintendo to axe, so this would have to be done with MASSIVE trepidation, but... imagine the fanservice this could have. It doesn't even need to encompass only SMRPG, either. It could include lots of Paper Mario and M&L, as well. Hell, considering SMRPG's involvement, we can even toss in a dash of Final Fantasy... because why not? There are also main series characters like Waluigi, Rosalina, Wario, and Daisy that would be awesome to see in an RPG. This would also be the best possible thing to, as petty and childish as it sounds, stick it to Nintendo and show them what they're missing out on. Look at these profits y'all are losing because you're all a bunch of stubborn old folk

4) More SMRPG ROM hacks! In fact, I know the game can be VERY heavily-altered at this stage with the materials we have (namely the Lazy Shell program), so using SMRPG as a base to make entirely new adventures would be amazing.

5) Merch. Yeah, this is another one to handle with care, but not quite as badly as making homemade Mario RPGs. Geno merch does exist, after all, from many corners of the fan base. Mario RPG ones in general do, at that! Both Geno and Mallow have a very healthy amount. Make more of those. Make more of other characters like Booster, Jonathan Jones, Jinx, Culex, and so on. Buttons, stickers, shirts, perlers, figures, plushies, very elaborate hand-knit stockings with one chicken nugget in each one, whatever. The sky is the limit.

I could go on. This doesn't have to be the end of SMRPG and calling it a complete doomsday. In fact, this should give fans the juice they need to make something happen. We shouldn't rely on Nintendo anymore. It isn't worth it, because they quite frankly, my dears, do not give a damn. I've been saying this many times before, and I will say it again: use this as fuel to make what we've been wanting to see, because Nintendo sure as hell won't do it.

 

[S1itchey]

I respectfully disagree about the following quote from your comment. "Who knows if sakurai even gives a ****." Sakurai has wanted Geno/thought about putting Geno in multiple times, he certainly gives a F**k about Geno.

Yeah I know. But you cant blame me. Hes had three chances to get geno in and all three have been taken by somebody else. Now I know these aren't his fault its DEFINETLY square and nintendo. I just thought that if he could make Ridley banjo and k.rool a reality he could do the same for geno. I just hope that if his mii costume does come back he says something about geno and his fans.

 

[Firox]

In the end, Ovaltine is right - this isn't on Square, this is on Nintendo. Nintendo didn't go to Square and say "gimme Geno" only for Square to say "Cloud first", they went to Square and said "gimme Cloud" and Square said "he's kind of old". This situation didn't happen with a single Square character. Nintendo asked for who we got and we got them. Nintendo ****ing hates the fact that Mario can be more than vapid platforming save the princess haha funny plumber fireballs go plt plt. They hate that Mario and his universe can be the vehicle of heartwarming stories with quirky dialogue that can evoke actual emotion from real humans, and above all, their pride as a company hates the fact that one of the most popular Mario characters of all time wasn't made by them. They never want us to be able to play as Geno again. Call it dooming all you want, it's the ****ing God's honest truth. If Nintendo wanted Geno, we would have had him three times by now.

That's what makes this **** sting even more. I've brought it up in the past but I'll bring it up again - there was an interview, long ago, where Sakurai said that he doesn't like to string people along or play with their expectations. Well, that was a ****ing lie because it is undeniable that our expectations have been played with and we've been strung along. If this was the plan all along then just put the ****ing Geno costume back in the game with Hero and end our ****ing misery. Let us ****ing rest from this endless speculation and harassment from internet randos and ****ing paid professionals moonlighting as insiders. Whoever's making these decisions up at Nintendo can rot in the deepest pit in hell for playing with the emotions of this fanbase and letting us be the whipping boys of an entire community. Thinking about it, hell's probably too nice of a place for them.

I will withhold my full judgement until Geno's mii costume is confirmed, but I will say this, if he does get costumed, it was Nintendo's fault for not giving a **** and Sakurai's fault for stringing us along. He knew damn well the kind of support Geno had, he gave his Sm4sh costume an actual splash screen, he said himself that Geno would be a good fit for Smash, he withheld the costume for over a year and half, and for WHAT? I'm sorry, no amount of revisionism can deny that he ****ed us in that regard. And no, you can't sell me on the idea that corporate Nintendo dictated all picks including base game of Brawl, Sm4sh AND Ultimate. At some point, Sakurai knew Geno wouldn't happen but he just didn't have the balls or the brains to kill our expectations like a respectable person would. Let's be honest here, Nintendo fed on our hope and expectations to sell DLC. The only reason they didn't pull our plug earlier is because they knew our hope in Geno would keep us coming back for more.

 

[MattOnwheels]

I just want to say that someone here--and they know who they are--is being WAY out of line and dare i say, evil to his fellow fans here and i don't appreciate it. i would ask they take a step back and reign in their anger before they get themselves in trouble, please, for their own sake.

 

[StarLight42]

I thought someone earlier in the thread apparently checked the Japanese video description and that confirmed the length and no new fighters thing.

Just checked it, and you’re correct. Sorry about that.

 

[Deleted member]

I remember hearing that as well, but I cannot find it for the life of me. It wasn't on NoJ's twitter unless it is further down in the thread

I had heard as much too but I can't confirm it either. The Japanese post just says they'll also announce the release date.

I don't think I need to point out more that my expectations are beyond rock bottom and well into the Earth's mantle.

 

[Springwood Slasher]

Gonna jump in with a few random thoughts:

-that picture of Sephiroth impaling Geno being spread all over Twitter is upsetting BUT look at the positive to that: it’s yet another way for Geno to get attention. All press is good press. The fact that the pic is one of the top rated comments means Nintendo will surely see it.

-We still haven’t really given the consideration that maybe Nintendo was able to strike a deal with Square to market Geno as a Mario character with a Mushroom icon. Is it unlikely? Hell yea. But it’s not impossible.

-I am tired like the rest of you, but Fatman and others make a good point: don’t give up until we see a body.

Also why the hell have we not started Geno hashtags on Twitter? Seriously. As an anecdote, WWE has been known to be an extremely sexist company where there women’s matches would never be more than 3 minutes long (the women were called “Divas”). Fans were invested in these female wrestlers and recognized that WWE was holding them back. After a particularly terrible 30 second women’s match one night, Twitter exploded with the hashtag #GiveDivasAChance. The hashtag went global and soon enough, the women’s standing in the company began to improve (because WWE saw they had an entirely untapped demographic that were willing to spend money on coming to see their female wrestlers compete).

Every now and then, Geno trends on Twitter but really getting Geno to catch fire between now and Sephiroths Live Presentation next week could be critical to once again REMIND Nintendo of the financial gold mine of Geno that they are sitting on.

I don’t pretend to be perfect or know all the answers, I’m just taking Fatmans advice and trying to rally you guys to try and make the best of a bad situation.

 

[Deleted member]

I missed "video description". The actual Youtube video that will premier on the 17th says the following:


※有料追加コンテンツ第9弾以降の、新ファイターの発表はございません。

If you let Google translate chop that up as it thinks is appropriate it says no new fighter will be announced after the 9th paid content but the more accurate translation is more akin to "the fighter from the 9th additional paid content will not be announced".

 

[StarLight42]

“9th paid additional fighter” is probably counting Piranha Plant, unfortunately

 

[MattOnwheels]

I honestly feel like hte lesson here is not to rely on Nintendo to give you the content you want. I know it'd be great if they did, but especially with how C&D-happy they are and how much they refuse to give the Mario RPGs another glance, it'd be silly for me (again, for me, y'all can think what you want) to think that Nintendo may one day provide. I'm not ruling it out — they could surprise us — but I'd rather proceed with the mindset of the Mario RPGs and its beloved characters (outside of nu-Paper Mario) being dead,

That's why I encourage everyone to make content. If Nintendo won't, nothing will stop us from it... except for C&D's. Considering that point, however, with how scummy of a business Nintendo has been to its fans, I really don't care if people step on the toes of the poor, rich businessmen with expensive cars and massive houses. Just be careful not to let anything get the spotlight too early, giving Nintendo reason to bring an end to projects before they're done. Work on the downlow. I have a lot of ideas that the fans could bring to fruition, and while my talents only lie in artwork and writing, I would be happy to help. On top of that, continue supporting Operation Starfall. Remember that the project isn't only based on Smash, after all. It encompasses SMRPG as a whole.

There are a lot of things that could be done, though! If Nintendo won't make that Geno content we want, why can't we? Here's some of my ideas:

1) A mod for Super Mario 64. Considering how healthy this game's modding community is, I think this is incredibly plausible. Better yet is the idea that we could create a mod for Geno AND for Mallow. Y'all also know about the Super Mario 64 Star Road hack by Skelux, right? I wonder if we could contact the guy and see about adding Geno and Mallow into either that or a related future hack via some collaboration? It'd be perfect, given Star Road's obvious involvement in the plot. This would also give Geno and Mallow a lot of spotlight they otherwise wouldn't reach. I wish I had SM64 modding capabilities myself or 3D modeling expertise, because if I did, I would have done this a long time ago. I even have ideas on how they'd play and control in the game. It'd be awesome.

2) A mod for Smash Ultimate. This is already super obvious. IIRC, there's one that someone is already tinkering with, right? Let's see that through.

3) Making our own Mario RPGs. This is the one that'd be especially crucial for Nintendo to axe, so this would have to be done with MASSIVE trepidation, but... imagine the fanservice this could have. It doesn't even need to encompass only SMRPG, either. It could include lots of Paper Mario and M&L, as well. Hell, considering SMRPG's involvement, we can even toss in a dash of Final Fantasy... because why not? There are also main series characters like Waluigi, Rosalina, Wario, and Daisy that would be awesome to see in an RPG. This would also be the best possible thing to, as petty and childish as it sounds, stick it to Nintendo and show them what they're missing out on. Look at these profits y'all are losing because you're all a bunch of stubborn old folk

4) More SMRPG ROM hacks! In fact, I know the game can be VERY heavily-altered at this stage with the materials we have (namely the Lazy Shell program), so using SMRPG as a base to make entirely new adventures would be amazing.

5) Merch. Yeah, this is another one to handle with care, but not quite as badly as making homemade Mario RPGs. Geno merch does exist, after all, from many corners of the fan base. Mario RPG ones in general do, at that! Both Geno and Mallow have a very healthy amount. Make more of those. Make more of other characters like Booster, Jonathan Jones, Jinx, Culex, and so on. Buttons, stickers, shirts, perlers, figures, plushies, very elaborate hand-knit stockings with one chicken nugget in each one, whatever. The sky is the limit.

I could go on. This doesn't have to be the end of SMRPG and calling it a complete doomsday. In fact, this should give fans the juice they need to make something happen. We shouldn't rely on Nintendo anymore. It isn't worth it, because they quite frankly, my dears, do not give a damn. I've been saying this many times before, and I will say it again: use this as fuel to make what we've been wanting to see, because Nintendo sure as hell won't do it.

At the risk of double posting, I want to say that this is spot on and echo's what i have been hinting at for months (If you know, you know) DON'T allow things made by corporations to be the key to your contentment. Nor allow them your trust beyond a certain level of mutual cooperation. At the end of the day, they do not and will NEVER care about you over maximizing profit, and if it can be done quicker without catering to the customers themselves, they will.

 

[Deleted member]

“9th paid additional fighter” is probably counting Piranha Plant, unfortunately

Either way we're getting nothing more than a Geno costume and additional despair.

Play ****ing Legacy XP, Nintendo can kiss my ass.

 

[Ridley64]

I have no idea how the rest of you long-haul chads can justify continuing to hope for Geno because of how long we've been hoping and getting burned, it's the ****ing stress point for me. I'd be less disappointed if I'd just jumped on the Geno bandwagon, sure, but the new blood shouldn't be strung along like we've been. They can look back on the history of this fanbase and see all of the empty platitudes Sakurai has thrown our way and all of the coincidences that we've had to endure and they sure as hell can decide for themselves that they don't want to be cattle led to slaughter like we've been. I commend them for it. Pick a horse that'll win, new guys.

View attachment 295102

I know I said I was going to wait until 12/17 to do this but ** it, there is absolutely zero chance that Geno's costume doesn't come back with Sephiroth and if it doesn't, I stand by what I said that they're just sweeping him under the rug. Believe it or not, I do read almost all of the comments in this thread even when we accumulate several tens of pages in one night. I see the high and mighty, the self righteous, the bootlickers who come here and say that we should appreciate every ***ing table scrap thrown our way, that somehow we should be just fine with a costume, or better still a ****ing "deluxe" one, and to you, I say unkindly * right off and find a new hobby instead of trying to hold the moral high ground on the ****ing internet - I hear they're accepting at clown college and that'll probably fill your time.

Spoiler: I don't want this page to be 8 miles long

To all the people who want me to examine what kind of "fan" I am, despite the fact that you don't deserve a response, I can't help myself from putting at least 100 hooks in my mouth at any given time, I am a ****ing bait addict. I'll tell you what kind of fan I am, I'm the kind of fan that at age 9 picked up Super Smash Bros knowing good and god damn well that it was a multiplayer party game that I would likely never be able to enjoy as intended because I am an only child who, at the time, had 1 friend who was a stereotypical early 90s baby whose parents would not allow near a video game. I just wanted to know what it was about, how a game could possibly let me play as Mario and Link and Pikachu all in the same world, and I fell in love with it. I was introduced to Metroid, F-Zero and Earthbound through this game and because of the latter, I can say that Smash Bros 64 effectively changed my life.

I'm the kind of fan who bought a Gamecube on launch day and played Luigi's Mansion until Melee came out and then Melee almost never left my console. I had acquired exactly 1 more friend in those two years and this one played video games, so he and I played the everloving **** out of Melee and I began to learn about tournaments and the competitive scene of Smash at this point and I learned that I was absolute garbage at Melee and so stepped my game up tremendously over the following years. I never went to a single tournament because I was still so young, but it's safe to say that for the second time in its history, Smash as a franchise changed my life.

I'm the kind of fan who was up bright and early every morning, checking the Brawl Dojo before school or in my morning programming class if I didn't manage to wake up early enough to do it at home. Every day, I rooted for Geno or Isaac or Lloyd to show up, and after Lucas, I hoped for his adversary, Masked Man. I rode the ups and downs of that release cycle like everyone else, had my mind blown by Sonic and had my expectations slashed by the generic "check out this character's down tilt" posts or "look at this cool new item" *. I was out here in the trenches when a true all star cast of characters was soiled by the oh so creative addition of R.O.B. and Toon Link. Beyond all of this, what kind of fan am I? I didn't take a hot steamy dump on everyone who wanted to play Brawl competitively. I gave it a fair shake and my first Smash tournaments were playing this beautiful trainwreck. I sat around and endured endless * from Melee players because I enjoyed the roster over the mechanics. Did I switch to Brawl+ when it became available? **** yeah I did, to hell with tripping... But I looked forward to the future of the franchise.

I'm the kind of fan who hinged his decision to purchase a whole ass Wii U because they said of course Smash Bros was coming to it. Like Brawl before it, I was there every night on the Smash Dojo looking out, once again, for Geno. I was happy to see returning characters, thrilled by the addition of Mega Man, confused by the waifubait inclusions of Lucina and Palutena, angered at the concept of Mii Fighters, excited by Greninja, Shulk and Robin and ****ing heartbroken by the cut of Wolf, Snake and Lucas. The DLC cycle for Smash 4 was truly an exciting time for me because for the first time in Smash's history, after the game had come out we could hold onto hope. They brought Lucas back despite being a trophy and Ness having all of his moves, truly anything was possible... But Nintendo wanted to turn heads more than they wanted to please fans after Mewtwo and Lucas. I'm sure Cloud did both for some, but not for me, and the Geno costume... I don't think I was too upset. It was, at that time, hope. Hope, once again, to look forward to the future of the franchise.

Finally, I am the kind of fan who, despite being burnt on the fact that Bayonetta was added to Smash 4 with zero semblance of care for balance, despite being burnt on the quality of some of the Wii U's late-life releases (Star Fox Zero hurts me in ways I didn't think I could be hurt by video games), and despite being burnt by the fact that the Wii U sucked absolute ass... I picked up a Switch. Well after release, sure, but I still got a Switch because I trusted the quality of the games, what Nintendo would do for their fans. Despite thinking that Ultimate was going to be a Smash 4 port with some more DLC, I still held out a little hope for it, and when it was shown off at E3 with every character returning, I was hyped up. The massive roster that I had dreamed about since Melee was really becoming a reality... Almost everything from this point is so recent there's no need to describe it.

So if the fact that I don't sit down at the table and say with excitement "itadakimasu" when Nintendo serves me **** doesn't make me a fan despite all of this, then I don't want to be a fan.

You might be saying "how is Nintendo putting the most vapid antagonist of the most entry level Final Fantasy game into Smash 'serving [you] *'", and all I have to say in response to that is that you simply will never understand how I feel. Sephiroth isn't *, of course not. This is a massive reveal that pleases a lot more people than it disappoints and answers the question of "how do they outdo Steve?". But I didn't sign up to see Steve outdone. I didn't sign up to see ****ing Steve. There's a small handful of holes in Smash Ultimate that keep it from truly being "Ultimate" or even "Special" as the Japanese name implies, and those holes aren't filled by massive picks like this, they're filled by little guys that the Smash community has been requesting for over a decade. But fan polls mean nothing in the face of big money deals.

All of this DLC, even pass 1, has been mostly just head turning characters, nothing to appeal to fan requests. Joker? "Look at us, we got weeb garbage to join the roster before the fans got anything they asked for!" Hero? "Look at us we got the biggest RPG franchise in Japan to join the roster" Banjo? Banjo...

I'm *ing bitter and I want to put these words on paper, and know that I mean them from the bottom of my heart - if you like Banjo then * you. I hate you for the fact that you got your dumb cereal mascot from a trashy knockoff Mario 64 before we got virtually anyone else. This goes beyond Geno, *ing Waluigi would have been a better pick than Banjo. I'm glad that he's just a ****ty Mario semi-clone that'll never amount to anything competitively because I ****ing hate looking at him and hearing his sound effects and his music. He was added as nothing more than yet another "look at us, we went to our direct competitor and shilled their console so we could pretend to appeal to fans but actually we just wanted to turn heads and be a media sensation", but blinded by nostalgia for an objectively awful pair of video games you guys think they finally listened to the fans for once. It's sad. And for the record? Geno could be the next three characters and I'd still feel this way about Banjo. * him and **** his fans.

Terry is a genuine enigma and I'm glad they added him. Byleth needs no explanation.

I've said so many times that the DLC for Ultimate is about characters who have mechanics that are really unique. Joker has a semi-uncontrollable limit gauge that turns him from Sheik to Ganondorf, Hero has a whole ass spells menu, Banjo has... nothing really special, honestly. I guess the neutral B is unique but not really useful. Terry has fighting game inputs with a meter equivalent built in and Byleth is a Fire Emblem character with blue hair without a counter (who finally represents the variety of weapons available in the game). Min Min is like what if Mega Man's projectiles couldn't be reflected and Steve is so far out of the realm of plausible that he literally doesn't fit in with the rest of the cast. It really did feel like this was the development mindset, to make experiences unique to each character and put something special in the game, "and where did that bring you?"

Anime Swordsman: Back to me.

Seriously, they went out of their way to get the most iconic Final Fantasy villain right next to *ing Kefka, put him and the full length of his massive tool in the game only to give him a ****ing counter. They're out of ideas and they clearly don't give a damn about unique characters or characters that are pushing the limit of the game's balance. * me for being wrong about the one thing that would have spelt something good for Smash's future. They just want to turn heads or shill their own ****.

In the end, Ovaltine is right - this isn't on Square, this is on Nintendo. Nintendo didn't go to Square and say "gimme Geno" only for Square to say "Cloud first", they went to Square and said "gimme Cloud" and Square said "he's kind of old". This situation didn't happen with a single Square character. Nintendo asked for who we got and we got them. Nintendo ****ing hates the fact that Mario can be more than vapid platforming save the princess haha funny plumber fireballs go plt plt. They hate that Mario and his universe can be the vehicle of heartwarming stories with quirky dialogue that can evoke actual emotion from real humans, and above all, their pride as a company hates the fact that one of the most popular Mario characters of all time wasn't made by them. They never want us to be able to play as Geno again. Call it dooming all you want, it's the ****ing God's honest truth. If Nintendo wanted Geno, we would have had him three times by now.

That's what makes this **** sting even more. I've brought it up in the past but I'll bring it up again - there was an interview, long ago, where Sakurai said that he doesn't like to string people along or play with their expectations. Well, that was a ****ing lie because it is undeniable that our expectations have been played with and we've been strung along. If this was the plan all along then just put the ****ing Geno costume back in the game with Hero and end our ****ing misery. Let us ****ing rest from this endless speculation and harassment from internet randos and ****ing paid professionals moonlighting as insiders. Whoever's making these decisions up at Nintendo can rot in the deepest pit in hell for playing with the emotions of this fanbase and letting us be the whipping boys of an entire community. Thinking about it, hell's probably too nice of a place for them.

I hope Wynn is riding high right about now, he's a king and should be exalted like one.

And why do I want to throw Ultimate in the garbage and delete my account? Because Smash has changed. The future I imagined back in Melee was one in which Nintendo characters and maybe third party characters relevant to Nintendo's storied history would be added in droves to make this perfect dream fighting game... But we've gotten almost the exact opposite. Characters that mean nothing to Nintendo and in some cases have barely appeared on a Nintendo console get added in and the world goes ape**** for them, just a byproduct of the corruption of the wish that everyone liked video games.

As it stands right now, I look at the roster and it makes me *ing angry. Who the hell is Bayonetta? Corrin? Piranha Plant? Incineroar? Joker? Byleth? Why the hell did someone photoshop Minecraft Steve onto this character select screen and make me accept it as real? I just can't with this *. The pandemic has robbed me of the joys that Smash brought into my life and they can't be replaced with the shoddy online, and even when it inevitably ends and things can return to normal, the damage of the character picks is going to remain. The world is give and take, and I feel like all I've gotten is the "take" half of it. All I have to look forward to in the Smash section of my life is going back to a tournament in which a bunch of zoomers are playing ****ing Steve and Sans Undertale and I've gotten a big fat goose egg when it comes to characters I want that can balance out this nightmare. I don't want to suffer hearing Steve's victory screen when I can't move that cursor on the character select screen over to someone that I genuinely begged to have added to the game. I just don't want to put up with it. Again, if you can't understand my sentiments here, whatever, you just won't ever understand it.

I just want to put all of this behind me and pretend I never cared. I'm tired of losing and I'd rather pretend that I won.

Once again, this image that I saved all the way back in the grinch days haunts me. It was real all along, obviously provided by a time traveler.
View attachment 295113

First of all, some of that offended me, but kudos to you for having the determination to write something that long. I know I could never write all of that in a Smashboards post. I have neither the time or the patience.

View attachment 295119View attachment 295118
i’m assuming they just erroneously assumed Nintendo fans wouldn’t catch onto this, and I really doubt we’re getting another reveal that soon, but eh, here, have some speculation fuel. I know it means nothing for geno, but I thought i’d post it anyways

Possible. This is interesting....