Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Fatmanonice]

Hyrule Warriors 2: You Accidentally Call Urbosa "Mommy" in Front of Your Parents probably won't get a Direct for a variety of reasons:

-Coverage started for it in September and game specific Directs are almost always at least a month out from their respective release. Doing a quick search, the only recent exception has been Splatoon 2 in 2017 and that was still 2 weeks off.

-It basically got the equivalent of a several hour Direct at TGS in September and a Nintendo Treehouse of Boredom in October.

-Whole lotta trailers already released.

-They already released a demo in late October.

TL; DR: it's already gotten a ton of coverage and even a demo so WTF would they even talk about?

But, yeah, I know not everyone agrees that something was supposed to happen this last week but it's kind of irrelevant now anyways. My original argument going into November was that Nintendo has a perfect track record for presentations in November and almost always pays out in the first or second week of the month. As of last Monday, a deluge of stuff has forced the week of the 16th into full consideration too so it's a very easy to take L while we wait for the rest of the month to play out.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

TL; DR: it's already gotten a ton of coverage and even a demo so WTF would they even talk about?

The only thing I can think of is if they had a assload of characters, modes and/or game mechanics that for some reason they just didn't feel like talking about until like a week from release. Which, considering what was found in that datamine of the demo, is definitely a possibility.

 

[StarLight42]

Fair enough. I guess this would still mean the game at least wouldn't have ended on Byleth.

Also, 64, Melee and Brawl didn't really "end" on any one character because they didn't reveal all the characters before the games released. For the latter two you could just as easily say they ended on Mewtwo and Lucario, who were very popular characters at the time they released.

I just want to say that I don't think Geno would be last, but I also don't think it's impossible. Like it or not, he isn't as popular as characters like K. Rool or Banjo or Cloud. For a lot of people Geno would be on the level of someone like Bayonetta or Duck Hunt.

I can see your point, and I definitely agree that Geno has a certain “niche” to him that would make him feel like Bayonetta to some people, but I just adamantly believe he’s been too long of a fervent Smash request to be put in last. If we got a third party at the end, I feel like it would be someone people aren’t speculating or predicting (like Bayonetta), but I don’t think we are even getting a third party last.
I think best case scenario, FP11 is Waluigi. It would be a controversial choice for some but fanservice for most. It’s an easy first party character that takes no negotiation and simply makes fans happy. If it’s not wah, I bet it’s someone like Incineroar or Byleth

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

I can see your point, and I definitely agree that Geno has a certain “niche” to him that would make him feel like Bayonetta to some people, but I just adamantly believe he’s been too long of a fervent Smash request to be put in last. If we got a third party at the end, I feel like it would be someone people aren’t speculating or predicting (like Bayonetta), but I don’t think we are even getting a third party last.
I think best case scenario, FP11 is Waluigi. It would be a controversial choice for some but fanservice for most. It’s an easy first party character that takes no negotiation and simply makes fans happy. If it’s not wah, I bet it’s someone like Incineroar or Byleth

Yeah, if I had to take a guess at who's last using characters that are being speculated, I'd say Ryu Hayabusa. It'd be a more low-key ending like Bayonetta, but unlike Bayonetta I think a lot of people are at least aware of Ninja Gaiden and its history, so it'd probably be less upsetting to the vast majority. Also people just like ninjas lol

As a side note I think poor Incineroar gets such a bad rap just because he happened to be the character that disproved the Grinch Leak. Idk if a whole lot more people would have been excited to see him if the leak never happened, but I definitely think he would have been seen as a lot more appealing.

 

[MattX20]

Yeah, if I had to take a guess at who's last using characters that are being speculated, I'd say Ryu Hayabusa. It'd be a more low-key ending like Bayonetta, but unlike Bayonetta I think a lot of people are at least aware of Ninja Gaiden and its history, so it'd probably be less upsetting to the vast majority. Also people just like ninjas lol

As a side note I think poor Incineroar gets such a bad rap just because he happened to be the character that disproved the Grinch Leak. Idk if a whole lot more people would have been excited to see him if the leak never happened, but I definitely think he would have been seen as a lot more appealing.

To be fair to Incineroar, he did have fans in the East and West that did want him in, so there was that going for him. Not Geno or Isaac levels of demand, but it still existed unlike some other characters I can mention

 

[ctt4lfecw]

Yeah, if I had to take a guess at who's last using characters that are being speculated, I'd say Ryu Hayabusa. It'd be a more low-key ending like Bayonetta, but unlike Bayonetta I think a lot of people are at least aware of Ninja Gaiden and its history, so it'd probably be less upsetting to the vast majority. Also people just like ninjas lol

As a side note I think poor Incineroar gets such a bad rap just because he happened to be the character that disproved the Grinch Leak. Idk if a whole lot more people would have been excited to see him if the leak never happened, but I definitely think he would have been seen as a lot more appealing.

Exactly. When I see Incineroar, it makes me think of the Grinch Leak.

 

[StarLight42]

Yeah, if I had to take a guess at who's last using characters that are being speculated, I'd say Ryu Hayabusa. It'd be a more low-key ending like Bayonetta, but unlike Bayonetta I think a lot of people are at least aware of Ninja Gaiden and its history, so it'd probably be less upsetting to the vast majority. Also people just like ninjas lol

As a side note I think poor Incineroar gets such a bad rap just because he happened to be the character that disproved the Grinch Leak. Idk if a whole lot more people would have been excited to see him if the leak never happened, but I definitely think he would have been seen as a lot more appealing.

Again, I can see what you’re saying but... nah. I said unexpected. Ryu is very very expected and speculated at this point. Bayonetta wasn’t talked about nearly as much before her reveal

Also, Incineroar was disliked well before the Grinch leak so that simply isn’t true. He was talked about by Verge at least a month or two before the Grinch even came out

 

[Nazyrus]

The only thing I can think of is if they had a assload of characters, modes and/or game mechanics that for some reason they just didn't feel like talking about until like a week from release. Which, considering what was found in that datamine of the demo, is definitely a possibility.

Yes, there is PLENTY of stuff they haven't touched on. It's stupid to wonder what they would cover with how little they have actually covered lol

 

[Enigma735]

I have always thought someone like Rex could be a finisher. I feel Rex would be a character that half of the community would be beyond excited about, and the other half disappointed. Rex is obviously a somewhat demanded character, especially during the base roster days, so I'm sure he would make a lot of those fans happy, while some people may be disappointed over the fact that Ultimate will end with a first-party character from a rather niche franchise.

 

[TooManyToastahs]

I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned my character predictions in this thread now that I think about it. For the most part I’m super indecisive and also think a metric frackton of characters have a decent shot of getting in the game, so I dunno if I can call these “predictions”, but rather “characters who have stuff going for them”.

Anyways I made a little graphic outline for characters I could see happening. Most of these predictions are your usual suspects, however I included Monokuma because I personally think he’s kinda slept on in the speculation scene.
I should also mention that there are a lot of characters who could end up in the game outside of my predictions, as expected. Pheonix Wright, Monster Hunter, a Valve character, lots of 1st party Nintendo characters, etc.

Surprisingly, the character I feel the most confident about is Geno. Funny how that works out, considering a year or two ago my expectations for him were depressingly low all things considered (and let me just say, I am really glad our current situation is not like a year or two ago).

As you can see, it’s hard to predict Smash Bros., so I just put characters who have a lot of circumstantial evidence backing them (Characters in the top image more so). Feel free to discuss!

 

[GenoDoge]

In terms of predictions, I am very confident in Geno and Crash. Sora, Porky, Isaac, and Rex have pretty good chances too IMO.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

Again, I can see what you’re saying but... nah. I said unexpected. Ryu is very very expected and speculated at this point. Bayonetta wasn’t talked about nearly as much before her reveal

Also, Incineroar was disliked well before the Grinch leak so that simply isn’t true. He was talked about by Verge at least a month or two before the Grinch even came out

I specifically pointed out that I was only using characters that have been heavily speculated about. Like yeah, 11 can and probably will blindside the community, that I agree with. I was just pointing out that if any of the talked about characters were to be last, it'd probably be Ryu.

About Incin, I know that there already were people who didn't want him in. I was basically just saying the Grinch leak made his reception way worse than it would have been had it never existed.

 

[Paraspikey]

Yes, there is PLENTY of stuff they haven't touched on. It's stupid to wonder what they would cover with how little they have actually covered lol

While they still have a decent amount of stuff to cover, a direct just seems a bit out of place at this time, when most game-focused directs are a month+ apart from release.
I feel like the only other time this could of been fine was... last week.

Most of the stuff they have to cover are characters and locations.

Though then again, there is only a few weeks left...
It can go either way

 

[Mizzle]

I have always thought someone like Rex could be a finisher. I feel Rex would be a character that half of the community would be beyond excited about, and the other half disappointed. Rex is obviously a somewhat demanded character, especially during the base roster days, so I'm sure he would make a lot of those fans happy, while some people may be disappointed over the fact that Ultimate will end with a first-party character from a rather niche franchise.

This. Some people may say that Min Min may be the only first-party character in FP2, but I'd honestly be baffled if they didn't add Rex as well, especially since he had a lot more fan requests than her.

It's also important to keep in mind that Nintendo has been putting quite a lot of spotlight on the Xenoblade series recently. And with XC3 probably being -at least originally- intended for a 2021 release, putting Rex in would not just promote XC2, but also just the rest of the Xenoblade series.

 

[Enigma735]

This. Some people may say that Min Min may be the only first-party character in FP2, but I'd honestly be baffled if they didn't add Rex as well, especially since he had a lot more fan requests than her.

It's also important to keep in mind that Nintendo has been putting quite a lot of spotlight on the Xenoblade series recently. And with XC3 probably being -at least originally- intended for a 2021 release, putting Rex in would not just promote XC2, but also just the rest of the Xenoblade series.

Basically my thoughts. I feel like a lot of people are greatly sleeping on Rex's chances, at least in this thread. I have a feeling that if ARMS got the greenlight, I feel like Rex will get the greenlight as well.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

This. Some people may say that Min Min may be the only first-party character in FP2, but I'd honestly be baffled if they didn't add Rex as well, especially since he had a lot more fan requests than her.

It's also important to keep in mind that Nintendo has been putting quite a lot of spotlight on the Xenoblade series recently. And with XC3 probably being -at least originally- intended for a 2021 release, putting Rex in would not just promote XC2, but also just the rest of the Xenoblade series.

Yeah If there's another first party character in the pass it'd probably be Rex, especially if they're planning to bookend the pass with two Nintendo characters.

 

[GenoDoge]

So, I've been thinking:

Smash 4 - Cloud was the second NEW DLC fighter.
Fighter's Pass 1 - Hero was the second DLC fighter.
Fighter's Pass 2 - While Steve was the second DLC fighter, there is some speculation he was pushed up from the fourth slot, meaning the original second (and thus #77) may have been Geno.

Thoughts?

 

[Xehanort1372019]

Did anyone saw this?

https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1325551193909829634

 

[Megadoomer]

So, I've been thinking:

Smash 4 - Cloud was the second NEW DLC fighter.
Fighter's Pass 1 - Hero was the second DLC fighter.
Fighter's Pass 2 - While Steve was the second DLC fighter, there is some speculation he was pushed up from the fourth slot, meaning the original second (and thus #77) may have been Geno.

Thoughts?

That seems like a bit of a stretch. I'm not sure what evidence there is to show that Steve was pushed up from the fourth slot (I don't know why they'd take a character with such an detailed gimmick, one that's so elaborate that they had to alter every stage in the game to incorporate it, and release him earlier than they had intended), but Cloud being the second new DLC fighter and Hero being the second DLC fighter in the Fighters Pass (I'm assuming you aren't counting Piranha Plant when you say he's the second DLC fighter for Ultimate) seems like a coincidence.

 

[GenoDoge]

That seems like a bit of a stretch. I'm not sure what evidence there is to show that Steve was pushed up from the fourth slot (I don't know why they'd take a character with such an detailed gimmick, one that's so elaborate that they had to alter every stage in the game to incorporate it, and release him earlier than they had intended), but Cloud being the second new DLC fighter and Hero being the second DLC fighter in the Fighters Pass (I'm assuming you aren't counting Piranha Plant when you say he's the second DLC fighter for Ultimate) seems like a coincidence.

The Steve theory comes from Sakurai in a Famitsu article saying Steve was in development entirely during COVID-19, which doesn't line up with developing the characters in 3s. This imples they pushed Steve up to finish development on the pass's to toughest character before the pandemic got even worse. I do agree that my Square Enix 2nd is a bit of a stretch though.

 

[MattX20]

Did anyone saw this?

https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1325551193909829634

I must assume it's doing well thanks to Steve's inclusion

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

Did anyone saw this?

https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1325551193909829634

I hope this does convince them to keep supporting the game, as long as the team is happy to do it.

A week or so ago I was actually trying to gauge the sales of the pass using GSP, and from what I could gather they did indeed look very good:

This theory doesn't have anything to do with a specific character, but it might be useful for speculating whether or not Nintendo will be interested in adding more characters after Fighter Pass 2 due to high enough sales.

So, would looking at a character's GSP be a way to get a rough estimate of how many people have bought said character?

For example, my Classic Mode high score for Min Min is:

1,974,290 points at 9.9 difficulty, which gives me a GSP of 9,592,826.

If I'm not mistaken, then that would mean at least 9,592,826 people have bought Min Min, correct? When you factor in the people who have scored higher than me and the people who simply haven't played Min Min's Classic Mode route, then this number should be even higher.

What do you all think?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Did anyone saw this?

https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1325551193909829634

"As we reported in June..."

*****! We've known about the four extra character slots since January 2019! Get the **** outta here with that...

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Did anyone saw this?

https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1325551193909829634

Yea. If they want to do FP3, then it'll be 4 slots. We have to wait til FP2 is over to discuss.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

"As we reported in June..."

*****! We've known about the four extra character slots since January 2019! Get the **** outta here with that...

game journalism intensifies

 

[drewber2635]

I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned my character predictions in this thread now that I think about it. For the most part I’m super indecisive and also think a metric frackton of characters have a decent shot of getting in the game, so I dunno if I can call these “predictions”, but rather “characters who have stuff going for them”.

View attachment 291454
View attachment 291455

Anyways I made a little graphic outline for characters I could see happening. Most of these predictions are your usual suspects, however I included Monokuma because I personally think he’s kinda slept on in the speculation scene.
I should also mention that there are a lot of characters who could end up in the game outside of my predictions, as expected. Pheonix Wright, Monster Hunter, a Valve character, lots of 1st party Nintendo characters, etc.

Surprisingly, the character I feel the most confident about is Geno. Funny how that works out, considering a year or two ago my expectations for him were depressingly low all things considered (and let me just say, I am really glad our current situation is not like a year or two ago).

As you can see, it’s hard to predict Smash Bros., so I just put characters who have a lot of circumstantial evidence backing them (Characters in the top image more so). Feel free to discuss!

I don’t see Rex/Pyra and Ryu Hayabusa getting in. Rex already has a Mii costume and I know that doesn’t deconfirm completely but I think it definitely decreases their chances by quite a bit. Just like how we got a Travis touchdown MiI costume, he won’t be in the game. I also think Ryu Hayabusa will end up being a Swordfighter Mii costume.　I do agree with your main picks though, except for Dante. I think Impa (AoC version) will be in the game as a new Zelda rep is long over due, but thats just my two cents.

 

[CannonStreak]

Did anyone saw this?

https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1325551193909829634

Oh come on! I mean, I want a third Fighters' Pass too, but I think Sakurai needs a well deserved break after the second one.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

Oh come on! I mean, I want a third Fighters' Pass too, but I think Sakurai needs a well deserved break after the second one.

Nintendo: "Mr. Sakurai, the second Fighter Pass is doing just as well if not better than the first! How about we do a third?"

Sakurai:

"Okay"

 

[Vector Victor]

Ok, so people bring up that they want Sakurai to take a break/vacation, which is a nice suggestion. But, I'm wondering how the game development world works with that compared to a standard 9 to 5 office job. Some people's tones imply that their idea of a break for Sakurai is years. But wouldn't Sakurai be out for a standard time length of a vacation and then put on another job?

And honestly? IF Nintendo asked for more, I'd be fine with echoes pass with maybe a song each. No new stage or spirit board needed.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

Look, Sakurai has given me so much. And if it wasn’t for him, I don’t know if Geno would’ve got a Mii costume 5 years ago. I believe as Geno fans, there’s nobody who I trust more than him. He’s busted his *** for this game, much respect.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

Ok, so people bring up that they want Sakurai to take a break/vacation, which is a nice suggestion. But, I'm wondering how the game development world works with that compared to a standard 9 to 5 office job. Some people's tones imply that their idea of a break for Sakurai is years. But wouldn't Sakurai be out for a standard time length of a vacation and then put on another job?

And honestly? IF Nintendo asked for more, I'd be fine with echoes pass with maybe a song each. No new stage or spirit board needed.

Despite mostly only making Nintendo games, Sakurai is a freelancer so once the second pass is finished he can kinda do whatever he wants.

 

[CannonStreak]

Nintendo: "Mr. Sakurai, the second Fighter Pass is doing just as well if not better than the first! How about we do a third?"

Sakurai:

"Okay"

Sadly, that is probably going to happen.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

Sadly, that is probably going to happen.

Unless Geno is confirmed in this Pass, I don’t know if I can go through another one waiting.

 

[Enigma735]

I don’t see Rex/Pyra and Ryu Hayabusa getting in. Rex already has a Mii costume and I know that doesn’t deconfirm completely but I think it definitely decreases their chances by quite a bit.

I'm gonna have to agree to disagree on this point. This kinda feels like the whole Spirit argument again. Tons of people used the Spirits "rule" to say characters like Geno, Min Min and Rayman weren't gonna happen until Min Min demolished that rule. The same thing applies to Mii Costume Deconfirmations, if not less so, considering King K. Rool, Chrom, Inkling and Isabelle were both characters and Mii Outfits in the base game.

However, even though I do see Ryu Hayabusa more likely as a character, I can see him having a similar fate to what happened with Travis.

 

[Justin Little]

Sakurai should take a break. The man deserves it.

However, I'm not sure what's stopping him from hiring someone trustworthy to take over Smash while he's vacationing. Maximilian Dood has the right idea of turning Smash Ultimate into a service game. If Nintendo does indeed go that route though, I would like to see new modes being added. Boss Rush mode, an expanded Adventure mode, Trophies, etc.

 

[Paraster]

Sakurai should take a break. The man deserves it.

However, I'm not sure what's stopping him from hiring someone trustworthy to take over Smash while he's vacationing. Maximilian Dood has the right idea of turning Smash Ultimate into a service game. If Nintendo does indeed go that route though, I would like to see new modes being added. Boss Rush mode, an expanded Adventure mode, Trophies, etc.

Personally, I'm curious about what would happen if Sakurai stepped off Smash forever and Nintendo had someone else take over. Who would they pick? How would philosophies change?

 

[Justin Little]

Personally, I'm curious about what would happen if Sakurai stepped off Smash forever and Nintendo had someone else take over. Who would they pick? How would philosophies change?

The new guy has a Mario RPG bias and includes Geno, Mallow, Smithy, and Boshi as playable characters. Hell, he'll probably add Chained Kong to appease the DK fanbase like me for good measure.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

Sakurai should take a break. The man deserves it.

However, I'm not sure what's stopping him from hiring someone trustworthy to take over Smash while he's vacationing. Maximilian Dood has the right idea of turning Smash Ultimate into a service game. If Nintendo does indeed go that route though, I would like to see new modes being added. Boss Rush mode, an expanded Adventure mode, Trophies, etc.

I definitely agree with Max on this. Love his content.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Personally, I'm curious about what would happen if Sakurai stepped off Smash forever and Nintendo had someone else take over. Who would they pick? How would philosophies change?

I'm thinking it would have to be someone whom Sakurai has given his blessing. Potentially an apprentice or someone who shares an identical, if not very similar, game development ideology and design viewpoint for Smash.

 

[MattX20]

Sakurai does need some time to rest, I think it would be for the best if he took at least a year off after all the work he's done for Smash for nearly a decade now. I'd like to see Geno in Smash, but not at the expense of his health