Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[CopperKoopa]

I'd love to see the citing on this too.

Cause yeah, with hos majorly reputable he is, that's more than enough to pretty much say "he's in". Albeit, we all know rumors should be taken with a grain of salt, even the highly credible guys(Verge, for instance).

He said it often in his prediction videos, even the ones he cameos in with GameXplain and whatnot. Can't link one particularly just trust me bro

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He said it often in his prediction videos, even the ones he cameos in with GameXplain and whatnot. Can't link one particularly just trust me bro

...I can't believe I spelled "his" wrong. Anyway, Droodle answered it. Just a prediction, not a leak. Thanks, though.

 

[T2by4]

And to add to this:
-He said the 1st Nintendo give it to him (Yeah, Nintendo gives he games) was a Red Wii with NSMBW. And that game came out in 2009
-He said he knew that Dark Souls was coming to the Switch
-He said he has always knew some Smash characters who were in development like Incineroar, so he knew that grinch leak was fake.
He has said that Geno has been a lock sinse January

he said geno was a lock since january

BIG. IF. TRUE.

 

[Deleted member]

I really wonder why Geno hasn’t been in the base roster for Ultimate especially when Square is already on board and Cloud is in the game. Why not add him then add Dragon Quest later if that makes things easier?

 

[YsDisciple]

I think, October's Partner Showcase should be right around the corner. Either this week, or the next. Next week we also have Steve's release on SSBU. Still no word on the following game release dates:

• Bravely Default II (although recently they tweeted that news will be coming soon)
• DOOM Eternal (although they've said news will be coming "soon")
• Bayonetta 3 (... ... ... gulp)
• Metroid Primer 4 (uhh... still in development... I guess...?)

I wonder if we'll be getting a NSO Library update this month.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Boy, this post is way off in so many ways.

First off, Geno has no real competition at all when it comes to pure fan picks, and that's why he's inevitable.

Ridley and King K Rool were the two big 1st Party 'Dream On' fan picks, B&K and Geno are the two biggest 3rd Party 'Dream On' fan picks.

Sora was never competition because of how wonky it would be to negotiate for him as he is essentially a Disney rep and how previous KH content has always been limited time and all by itself, which means that Sora would only ever happen as a stand alone DLC pack like how all the DLC was done for Smash 4. Imran Khan has clarified an early statement that suggests that Sora was actually in talks for Ultimate and they fell through. The talks could happen again and he COULD still make it for Ultimate, but it's highly unlikely and it won't be for this pass for sure. Thus, Sora is not competition for Geno.

Lara Croft was very iconic back in the day but she has very much fallen from grace in recent years it would seem, based on numbers. The original reboot in 2013 was really well received but the sequels really fell off and while sales aren't really a factor it can determine popularity and it seems as though the games were a little too samey down the road and the redesign threw a lot of folks off. 4 million for the most recent title isn't anything to sneeze at, and 75-80 million copies int he franchise is pretty damn good, but companies often expect really huge numbers to determine success and honestly, you just don't see as many people talking about Lara. For a more anecdotal and closer to home example, Geno is the #1 Newcomer Support Thread where as I couldn't even find a unique thread for Lara here: I only found her talked about in a thread dedicated to supporting ALL Square Enix characters and she's even often mentioned as more of an afterthought. For a less anecdotal bit of evidence, the Mega Smash Poll done by Source Gaming in June shows Lara her as the 35th most voted character with 148 votes. In contrast, Geno is #2 with 926 votes, and then the next Square rep is Sora at #4 with 774 votes, and then there is a gap until #17 with 2B at 327 votes, and there are no more Square characters until Lara. This goes to show you how much crossover there is with Tomb Raider and Smash as opposed to SMRPG or Kingdom Hearts.

So no, Geno has no competition within Square Enix, and Paper Mario has lost it's chance as well with the Origami King Spirit Event no matter what anyone may say to try and deny the reality behind Geno's chances.

As for your latter comment, Chief is no where near this pass. Chief is more than likely in Vol 3 and will be a big reveal at that time. Crash is almost a given, and Lloyd and Dante are not 'slightly popular' by any means. Lloyd is the only realistic Bamco rep placed 23rd with 263 votes in that Mega Smash Poll, the highest of any Bamco character. @Nazyrus has already given all the evidence to prove that despite him not really having games Lloyd is still one of the most popular Tales Of characters even to this day and even though Dante has mostly been heavy bandwagoning due to an exchange on Twitter and a stupid assumption about what ended up being Byleth's reveal date, this has carried on for quite a while and landed at #5 with 773 votes on that same poll, though I would liek to point out that Phoenix Wright was #10 with 588 votes, so it really is a toss up between these two when it comes to if we even get a Capcom rep later on.

Honestly, the characters to be wary of are Geno, Lloyd, Hayabusa and Crash. They have the most going for them right now, so don't sleep on them, and be ready for the glory of Genovember!

Still though, Geno is Square-Enix's character and if them or Nintendo wants somebody else besides Geno for the next Square- Enix rep they're going to look him over. I don't think Nintendo will, but it's hard to say about Square-Enix as they're a tough customer to bargain with.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I really wonder why Geno hasn’t been in the base roster for Ultimate especially when Square is already on board and Cloud is in the game. Why not add him then add Dragon Quest later if that makes things easier?

No clue. Maybe Sakurai couldn't get him beyond the spirit or something? The costume I can believe was not even licensed yet, or is planned for DLC at one point but scrapped(as all the 3rd party costumes are DLC again, things could've changed).

It might not have been easier to get him in base roster. There's a rumor that Hero was meant for base too, but couldn't get the licensing for. If that is actually true, Geno is in no better of a position for that. It's also possible Sakurai never tried to get him in base, due to Hero being someone he wanted more or something.

There's a lot of possible reasons. In the end, here's hoping he's DLC playable~

 

[ForsakenM]

This assumes fan demand is the end all, be all of the world. In Pass 1, we got 2 characters that were solidly requested; but Joker, Terry, and Byleth were not on many peoples radar. Heck, I'm pretty sure there were a dozen first party characters that they could have chosen that would have been far better received than Byleth.

So far in this pass, we have gotten 1 requested character (Steve); and Min Min wasn't requested at all until after ARMS was already confirmed. So that doesn't really indicate that this pass will be all fan-favorites. Not to mention Nintendo has the habit of ending off Base/DLC with more recent 1st party characters.

And as for the Lloyd vs Yuri talks it's simple:
Lloyd = Sakurai pick
Yuri = Nintendo pick (probably due to Vesperia being on the Switch)
I dunno who will get in, or if we'll even get one of them.
And Yuri isn't the Alucard of Tales, and Lloyd isn't the Belmonts. Comparing them isn't really apt. Castlevania 90% of the time revolves around the age old fight between the Belmonts and Dracula; Alucard is a major character that got his own games here and there, but still the central conflict of Castlevania has always been Belmonts vs Dracula.

Fan demand is the most important factor when it comes to character decisions. Outside of making brand-new characters, which is a process of balancing design integrity with knowing how to appeal to your audience, fighting games ALWAYS aim for the characters people are requesting when possible. I'm sure that you know this, and if you didn't, just go take a look at all the DLC from recent fighting games. SFV, T7, SC6, SamSho, DBFZ, Blazblue CF and CrossTag have all been appealing to the character requests people want and balancing it with brand new characters and surprise reveals. For example, SFV has been mixing new characters with fan requests and bringing back characters from other Capcom franchises and fitting them into a fighting game. Recently, Season 5 starts off with Dan, possibly the most request fighter for them to bring back, as well Rose and Oro who are both popular as well. Toss in a character from their dead franchise Rival Schools and hold onto one for the mystery and intrigue and you have an amazing season pass set up.

SC6 has also been bringing back favorites like Setsuka while tossing in crazy guest characters like 2B, Haohmaru and the Soldier guy from For Honor. T7 has been bringing back massive amounts of fan favorites like Judy and Lei while giving us cool original characters like Leroy and crazy guest picks like Noctis and Neegan, and they just started off the next season of DLC with Kunimitsu, a beloved character who has only been in the Tekken Tag games up until now. DBFZ has spread it's requests between movie characters, characters from OG Dragonball, from Z and from Super and just recently gave us Roshi who was honestly the most requested character for over a year.

Smash is exactly the same way, except their surprise picks are 1st party promotional picks that no one really asked for, Joker, Terry for those who didn't know about the history Sakurai has with SNK, and a plant the majority of the fanbase hates. One of these was a massive success, one was alright over time and the other two weren't the most well-received.

One other difference is that Smash isn't in the business of making original characters, but rather shoving in big 3rd party picks from titles that will knock off our socks. This is where Joker and Steve fit in well, because while they were requested one of them wasn't nearly as supported as others and the other is from the best selling game on the planet so fan demand was really just more of a reason. Even if no one EVER asked for Steve, the minute B&K happened was the minute we should have all known he was coming. Minecraft is just TOO BIG not to include, kinda the opposite for Ridley's problem, and it took a while but he made they made it happen because it was too big an opportunity to miss.

This means that Smash has to balance DLC between 1st party picks that Nintendo pushes, big 3rd party picks that will draw in casuals, and hardcore fan picks on either side. Now obviously, whether or not Sakurai can and will do it and whether or not Nintendo and other companies will play ball are big factors as well, but the fact is that the DLC can't just be all of one or two of these categories, so YES fan demand is VERY important to get in those characters that the people who have played this franchise for years have been begging for.

In regards to Lloyd vs Yuri, Lloyd is the clear choice regardless of who makes the decision. Lloyd has deep ties with Nintendo, is the most requested Tales Of and general Bamco character now that Pac-Man has been in since Smash 4, Lloyd is still very popular with the Tales Of community, and Sakurai himself said that Lloyd 'had to be' the Mii Costume choice for a Tales Of costume. Some people are trying to act like this means less than it does, but Sakurai essentially said that Lloyd was the only real choice for the only Tales Of content Smash 4 got, and that we over the new main character of the most recent Tales Of game at the time. This very likely holds true to this day, even with Yuri being popular, as Lloyd is overall the better choice to make a bigger splash. Lloyd can still easily promote the Tales Of series as Sakurai always breaks down each series in his presentations...unless of course you are Minecraft, the best selling game in the world, that is very simple in gameplay and everyone knows about it already.

Like I said, Geno, Lloyd, Hayabusa and Crash are the names to look out for.

 

[Deleted member]

No clue. Maybe Sakurai couldn't get him beyond the spirit or something? The costume I can believe was not even licensed yet, or is planned for DLC at one point but scrapped(as all the 3rd party costumes are DLC again, things could've changed).

It might not have been easier to get him in base roster. There's a rumor that Hero was meant for base too, but couldn't get the licensing for. If that is actually true, Geno is in no better of a position for that. It's also possible Sakurai never tried to get him in base, due to Hero being someone he wanted more or something.

There's a lot of possible reasons. In the end, here's hoping he's DLC playable~

Do you have a link or anything that explains Hero was meant for base by any chance?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I really wonder why Geno hasn’t been in the base roster for Ultimate especially when Square is already on board and Cloud is in the game. Why not add him then add Dragon Quest later if that makes things easier?

Most likely got outprioritized.

Geno (and most other characters) don't really stand a chance when the competition is two massive first party fan favorites who are huge parts of their franchises (), two of Nintendo's modern juggernaughts(), a Pokemon ()and Simon Belmont ().

And Geno wouldn't be a good echo. I think it makes perfect sense why Geno wasn't in the base roster. Competition was extremely fierce and spots were limited.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do you have a link or anything that explains Hero was meant for base by any chance?

That's why I said rumor. I keep hearing about it but I never saw any actual evidence of this.

There's the interview about Hero that we saw, and was easily misinterpreted as being "meant for base". This is the time that confirms Slime was someone Sakurai would've taken if he couldn't get Hero.

I remember something about twitter talking about Hero, however my memory is unreliable so best one can do is search it via Google or maybe ask people from SourceGaming. PushDustIn specifically translates and has a lot of Sakurai tweets, so he might know if it's a bad memory or a real thing?

 

[ForsakenM]

Still though, Geno is Square-Enix's character and if them or Nintendo wants somebody else besides Geno for the next Square- Enix rep they're going to look him over. I don't think Nintendo will, but it's hard to say about Square-Enix as they're a tough customer to bargain with.

This is pessimistic thinking, tied to the fact that Geno is rather obscure.

Square has already gotten their two biggest franchises in the game and Disney couldn't play ball to get their fourth biggest. Notice I said 4th biggest for Kingdom Hearts, because according to sales, Tomb Raider is their 3rd biggest...despite them only acquiring it in 2010 and the first in the reboot being the only one that was insanely successful with the other two doing roughly the same as the earlier titles.

That said, you guys underestimate fan demand and Sakurai's pull in negotiation. Like, REALLY underestimate.

You remember when Castlevania looked like it was doomed, and yet here we are with Simon, Richter, and a crap ton of Castlevania content ever since launch? Konami wouldn't work with Sakurai, right guys? They are a horrible company who only does horrible things with their IPs, right guys?

Remember when Banjo & Kazooie could never come to Smash because Microsoft owned them? Nintendo would never work with a direct competitor, right guys? That franchise is too irrelevant and dead for Microsoft to ever agree to them over Chief or Steve, right guys?

I think you guys have forgotten something very important and apparent:

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS. ULTIMATE!

You know, the latest and greatest game in the franchise that celebrates video game history? The one on the Switch, Nintendo's comeback system? The game that somehow perfectly appeals to both casuals and competitive players? The game that has sold over 20 million copies and outsold ****ing Street Fighter II? The game that has Nintendo fans ******** for more news about it in every Nintendo presentation even mere days after they just revealed a new character? The game that has not only crossed over with all the Nintendo IPs people love, but made the effort to bring back all the missing character the fanbase loves as well as finally bring in a horde of fan picks that regularly broke the internet and made fans lose their ****? The game that crosses Nintedo IPs over with the likes of Metal Gear Solid, Sonic The Hedgehog, Megaman, PAC-MAN, Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Bayonetta, Castlevania, Persona 5, Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie, Fatal Fury and now most recently ****ING MINECRAFT? The fact that it crosses over with SO MANY OTHER IPs when you consider Assist Trophies, Mii Costumes, Spirits, Items, Icons, Bosses and Stage Cameos? The game that developers of all sorts are foaming at the mouth for a chance to have their IPs in even as just a Spirit or Mii Costume?

Now imagine you are any gaming developer who has been contacted by Nintendo/Sakurai and his team and they want to negotiate for a character you own to get into Smash. First of all, that is an absolute YES no matter who you are: this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to have your franchise be put into the video game history video game that everyone can't get enough of, and it can get a bunch of people who have never even heard of your game to go buy it and play it as well as making you money whenever they buy the character. It's just a good deal through and through.

Now imagine that Nintendo/Sakurai and his crew show up and you suggest characters and franchises in an upbeat tizzy, but Sakurai stops you and says he wants one of your characters from a franchise that is essentially dead because they fans REALLY love that character and that franchise even though you have done nothing with it for decades. Do you suddenly say no? Do you try too hard to push for a bigger franchise? Or you do settle for what the man came for, knowing that this is still a huge win for you, even if it wasn't exactly what you had in mind?

Now place this into Square's shoes, who have already been through this song and dance twice and got their two biggest cash cows into the game already. What else can you really promote? They tried for another one, but a big American company owns him more than you do and it didn't pan out, and here he is asking for a character that you will never use again yourselves but you also share the money with no one else but Nintendo. Do you really say no? Especially when the last time you tried with with your biggest franchise, Sakurai got who he came for anyway?

Yeah no, you don't. You pick and choose your battles, and this one is a win up until you make it so negotiations fail.

...

Come to think of it, Sakurai essentially told Square that 'it had to be Cloud', and he essentially said the same for Lloyd and he acknowledged our love for Geno with the most flashy Mii Costume announcement Smash 4 had and said he wants him to be in the game...also, Steve/Alex were the #7 most voted for character in the Mega Smash Poll and they got in as Challenger Pack 7...and Geno was #2 and we are still in Fighter's Pass 2...


OMG GUYS IT ALL ADDS UP! EVERYTHING IS COMING UP FOR GOOD TIMES AHEAD IN SAKURAI'S ULTIMATE WILD RIDE! GENOVEMBER LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This is pessimistic thinking, tied to the fact that Geno is rather obscure.

Square has already gotten their two biggest franchises in the game and Disney couldn't play ball to get their fourth biggest. Notice I said 4th biggest for Kingdom Hearts, because according to sales, Tomb Raider is their 3rd biggest...despite them only acquiring it in 2010 and the first in the reboot being the only one that was insanely successful with the other two doing roughly the same as the earlier titles.

That said, you guys underestimate fan demand and Sakurai's pull in negotiation. Like, REALLY underestimate.

You remember when Castlevania looked like it was doomed, and yet here we are with Simon, Richter, and a crap ton of Castlevania content ever since launch? Konami wouldn't work with Sakurai, right guys? They are a horrible company who only does horrible things with their IPs, right guys?

Remember when Banjo & Kazooie could never come to Smash because Microsoft owned them? Nintendo would never work with a direct competitor, right guys? That franchise is too irrelevant and dead for Microsoft to ever agree to them over Chief or Steve, right guys?

I think you guys have forgotten something very important and apparent:

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS. ULTIMATE!

You know, the latest and greatest game in the franchise that celebrates video game history? The one on the Switch, Nintendo's comeback system? The game that somehow perfectly appeals to both casuals and competitive players? The game that has sold over 20 million copies and outsold ing Street Fighter II? The game that has Nintendo fans **** for more news about it in every Nintendo presentation even mere days after they just revealed a new character? The game that has not only crosses over with all the Nintendo IPs people love, but made the effort to bring back all the missing character the fanbase loves as well as finally bring in a horde of fan picks that regularly broke the internet and made fans lose their ****? The game that crosses Nintedo IPs over with the likes of Metal Gear Solid, Sonic The Hedgehog, Megaman, PAC-MAN, Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Bayonetta, Castlevania, Persona 5, Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie, Fatal Fury and now most recently ****ING MINECRAFT? The fact that it crosses over with SO MANY OTHER IPs when you consider Assist Trophies, Mii Costumes, Spirits, Items, Icons, Bosses and Stage Cameos? The game that developers of all sorts are foaming at the mouth for a chance to have their IPs in even as just a Spirit or Mii Costume?

Now imagine you are any gaming developer who has been contacted by Nintendo/Sakurai and his team and they want to negotiate for a character you own to get into Smash. First of all, that is an absolute YES no matter who you are: this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to have your franchise be put into the video game history video game that everyone can't get enough of, and it can get a bunch of people who have never even heard of your game to go buy it and play it as well as making you money whenever they buy the character. It's just a good deal through and through.

Now imagine that Nintendo/Sakurai and his crew show up and you suggest characters and franchises in an upbeat tizzy, but Sakurai stops you and says he wants one of your characters from a franchise that is essentially dead because they fans REALLY love that character and that franchise even though you have done nothing with it for decades. Do you suddenly say no? Do you try too hard to push for a bigger franchise? Or you do settle for what the man came for, knowing that this is still a huge win for you, even if it wasn't exactly what you had in mind?

Now place this into Square's shoes, who have already been through this song and dance twice and got their two biggest cash cows into the game already. What else can you really promote? They tried for another one, but a big American company owns him more than you do and it didn't pan out, and here he is asking for a character that you will never use again yourselves but you also share the money with no one else but Nintendo. Do you really say no? Especially when the last time you tried with with your biggest franchise, Sakurai got who he came for anyway?

Yeah no, you don't. You pick and choose your battles, and this one is a win up until you make it so negotiations fail.

...

Come to think of it, Sakurai essentially told Square that 'it had to be Cloud', and he essentially said the same for Lloyd and he acknowledged our love for Geno with the most flashy Mii Costume announcement Smash 4 had and said he wants him to be in the game...also, Steve/Alex were the #7 most voted for character in the Mega Smash Poll and they got in as Challenger Pack 7...and Geno was #2 and we are still in Fighter's Pass 2...


OMG GUYS IT ALL ADDS UP! EVERYTHING IS COMING UP FOR GOOD TIMES AHEAD IN SAKURAI'S ULTIMATE WILD RIDE! GENOVEMBER LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No I don't underestimate Sakurai's god like ability to negotiate with developers, I'm just saying Geno is Square-Enix's character and if they want characters in solely for money and thinks Geno wouldn't make them as much as Sora or Lara than they're going to overlook him even if Sakurai asks for him. They have to get Square-Enix's permission.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Too many contrarian users thinking Square would deny Geno simply because they feel Geno won’t make them as much profit. That is a non-issue, considering Sakurai literally said PAC-MAN would have been rejected if they weren’t allowed to use his classic design. If Square denied Geno, Sakurai / Nintendo would simply move on and no deal for any other character would be made. If a character like PAC-MAN would be rejected on his appearance alone, what makes you think Nintendo is willing to settle for another character from any company they weren’t interested in to begin with?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Too many contrarian users thinking Square would deny Geno simply because they feel Geno won’t make them as much profit. That is a non-issue, considering Sakurai literally said PAC-MAN would have been rejected if they weren’t allowed to use his classic design. If Square denied Geno, Sakurai / Nintendo would simply move on and no deal for any other character would be made. If a character like PAC-MAN would be rejected on his appearance alone, what makes you think Nintendo is willing to settle for another character from any company they weren’t interested in to begin with?

I still think Nintendo and Sakurai would still go with another Square-Enix character if they didn't allow them to put Geno in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hmm?

Piranha Plant is mixed, but got a ton of positive feedback. It's actually a pretty popular choice, especially among Bandanna Dee fans.

Castlevania was hardly considered doomed at that point, especially with the TV show coming. And that was met with a huge amount of praise. 3rd season aside.

Also, let's be honest; SE has no obligation to say yes to having Geno playable. It's not "free money". It's money for a product they can't get anything out of. That's what the costume actually did at best, give them easy money. For them, the most likely reason would be due to a Switch SMRPG release. I absolutely can see this happening, though. But that's pretty much the only case of money being a reason. Otherwise, other options clearly would make them more money. That said, SE can't really do much of anything to get any other characters in if Nintendo doesn't ask for 'em. Lara or whatever, it doesn't matter. In the end, Nintendo has to ask for them.

I certainly hope he gets in, but yes, I can see SE not being interested. I have a feeling the whole reason he got a Spirit was because being playable wasn't really an option. Although there's a good chance he wasn't asked for to be playable in Ultimate at the time. We don't even know if he was asked for outside of Brawl at best playable-wise. I'm pretty sure I had discussed that years ago, and it was pointed out there's no good evidence he was attempted to into 4 either beyond the costume. Though I don't remember all the details.

Too many contrarian users thinking Square would deny Geno simply because they feel Geno won’t make them as much profit. That is a non-issue, considering Sakurai literally said PAC-MAN would have been rejected if they weren’t allowed to use his classic design. If Square denied Geno, Sakurai / Nintendo would simply move on and no deal for any other character would be made. If a character like PAC-MAN would be rejected on his appearance alone, what makes you think Nintendo is willing to settle for another character from any company they weren’t interested in to begin with?

Exactly. Though RetroGamerMax does have a point that Nintendo might be more interested in a different product too. SE can say no easily, but that's as far as they'll get. Now, if Nintendo has other ideas to say to SE, we could get someone else. It's really a matter of who Nintendo has the most priority for, and who they suggested first to Sakurai at this point.

We'll see in due time. I can't write off other SE choices to begin with, though there are some I doubt like Crono. Geno, Lara, Sora(kind of, as that's first asked via Disney, not SE)? I see them all as good contenders for the pass. 2B I can't see due to no Nier games coming currently for the Switch, which might not matter for Sakurai, but would for Nintendo. Any other SE franchises that aren't more or less already spirited away(meaning that's all they were chosen for lately). I think Bravely Default got spirits recently, right? Mana already did, so I highly doubt it(though that was a fairly long time ago anyway, but still, it's probably meant to be the sole representation of the overall Mana franchise. Despite not being more than one notable Mana game).

 

[ForsakenM]

No I don't underestimate Sakurai's god like ability to negotiate with developers, I'm just saying Geno is Square-Enix's character and if they want characters in solely for money and thinks Geno wouldn't make them as much as Sora or Lara than they're going to overlook him even if Sakurai asks for him. They have to get Square-Enix's permission.

Well good for us Sora isn't making them any money because he's been canned and that Sakurai had all the leverage to prove that Geno is a better sell than Lara.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Well good for us Sora isn't making them any money because he's been canned and that Sakurai had all the leverage to prove that Geno is a better sell than Lara.

Listen, I'm not saying Lara or Sora would sell better I'm just saying the higher ups at Square-Enix would probably think so.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Listen, I'm not saying Lara or Sora would sell better I'm just saying the higher ups at Square-Enix would probably think so.

Yeah, that's honestly more realistic of a take here. Sora and Lara are gaming icons, and there's no doubt that Geno isn't as well known.

That said, it doesn't matter if they think other characters would sell better. They can't really make Nintendo license for those if they don't already want them. That's more or less an important point to consider. SE doesn't choose the characters, and they can say no to whoever they want. So Geno's not a guarantee by any means, but it's not like "trying to suggest other characters" would do anything for SE itself. Nintendo I could easily see having more than once choice.

Though keep in mind Sora they wouldn't even talk to SE about. As Sora specifically is owned by Disney. I could easily see them going for Sora, though. That'd be a pretty cool choice too. But SE has a lot of neat choices, heh.

...Also, I don't know where there's some odd idea Sora was canned or whatever. That's clearly not the case. KH is doing amazingly well. Some silly unfounded rumor that Sora was attempted to be licensed and failed? I know there was someone that outright speculated it to be the case, but there's no evidence for this view.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Listen, I'm not saying Lara or Sora would sell better I'm just saying the higher ups at Square-Enix would probably think so.

I will.

Sora and Lara would sell much better than most Nintendo owned or tangentially related characters.

I mean, one hangs out with Mickey Mouse and the other has several successful Hollywood movies.

Geno's still an extremely likely character but to imply he'd sell better than Lara or Sora is like saying he'd sell better than Steve.

It's ridiculous.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I will.

Sora and Lara would sell much better than most Nintendo owned or tangentially related characters.

I mean, one hangs out with Mickey Mouse and the other has several successful Hollywood movies.

Geno's still an extremely likely character but to imply he'd sell better than Lara or Sora is like saying he'd sell better than Steve.

It's ridiculous.

Which is why Master Chief made it over banjo! ...Wait...

Seriously how many times must we learn this lesson?

 

[Lord Woomy]

Seriously how many times must we learn this lesson?

Every damn character reveal cycle
It never ends
I hate everything

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Which is why Master Chief made it over banjo! ...Wait...

Seriously how many times must we learn this lesson?

More like this is why Minecraft(which is far bigger than Halo overall) helped get Banjo-Kazooie in. Chief definitely wasn't the bigger choice here. Steve was the biggest character Microsoft has, and there's already an idea Banjo-Kazooie got in first only cause they were simpler, and that Steve was already talked about years in advance. In other words, Banjo-Kazooie got in because their bigger one was going to be added anyway.

Also, it's more like Cloud and Hero made it over Geno, so yes, it's been a clear precedent for SE to get bigger franchises/characters first. It may or may not keep happening.

Banjo-Kazooie is frankly not a great example of this, and also had advantages that Geno simply didn't ever have; they're gaming icons(who also helped to reinvent the genre. I admit I misspoke on their gaming impact beforehand), Phil Spencer directly said he wanted them in(and SE has not spoken about Geno like that, which makes any comparison fall very flat), and Banjo-Kazooie is a very active product of Microsoft's while SMRPG only once in a while sees a re-release. It's apples to oranges. It's not about bigger character, it's about the entire context of why they were first. And that's even ignoring the possibility Steve was always going to get in, Banjo-Kazooie's biggest competition(Master Chief was a much lesser note, especially as Halo wasn't even coming to Nintendo, which means Nintendo itself doesn't have as much reason to want to license the character. They aren't getting easy money off of it, nor is fan demand nearly as high as Steve or Banjo-Kazooie) was always Steve.

So I don't see how this comparison remotely holds. It's best to look at the full picture, not go for flimsy comparisons that don't make much sense. On the surface level, it almost makes sense... but when you do research, the whole situation changes.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Which is why Master Chief made it over banjo! ...Wait...

Seriously how many times must we learn this lesson?

I never stated there wasn't more to character inclusions than raw sales, but if we're arguing raw sales, can you tell me with a straight face those two wouldn't sell megatons?

I even stated Geno is an extremely likely character, but you were so quick to sass me, that you must have missed that.

Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[StarLight42]

I don’t see why Geno being DLC over base game means much at all

In fact I feel like DLC characters are the ones who get more attention. Steve broke ****ing twitter.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don’t see why Geno being DLC over base game means much at all

At the end of the day, you're right. It doesn't matter.

Though I will say that Hero and Steve prove that DLC is the best time for third parties. More of a budget can be given to them and apparently its easier to give companies more desirable deals with DLC contracts.

Naturally that helps Geno and all other third party characters. Licensing is less of an issue.

 

[StarLight42]

In fact, DLC characters, I feel like, get even more attention.

Who doesn't want 45 minutes of Masahiro Sakurai himself explaining how your most wanted character works in the game

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I never stated there wasn't more to character inclusions than raw sales, but if we're arguing raw sales, can you tell me with a straight face those two wouldn't sell megatons?

I even stated Geno is an extremely likely character, but you were so quick to sass me, that you must have missed that.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I have doubts about Lara tbh. She doesnt have the preestablished fanbase Geno has and I really can't say if she would sell better. Sora probably would, but it would take nothing short of a miracle 4 him to get in imo

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I have doubts about Lara tbh. She doesnt have the preestablished fanbase Geno has and I really can't say if she would sell better. Sora probably would, but it would take nothing short of a miracle 4 him to get in imo

Pre-established fanbase in... what? Smash circles? That's not necessarily where all sales come from.

If say, Lara is revealed it can bring a lot of Tomb Raider fans (in which there are a lot of, 75 million units sold for the whole franchise) who might not have been interested in Smash otherwise.

Sales can come from both the core audience, AND the general audience. We can kind of see this with Steve (and Sonic way back when). The internet didn't break from just the core Smash fanbase. We simply aren't that big.

This is something where Smash really succeeds in. It balances picks so that both core fans AND the general public can be interested.

 

[axel_]

Welcome to the Smashboards Geno thread, where we don't talk about Geno.

 

[Houndstooth]

I'm not sure I would call Banjo-Kazooie a very active product for Microsoft.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Welcome to the Smashboards Geno thread, where we don't talk about Geno.

And when we do, it's always about why some other character actually makes more sense than Geno for some goddamn reason

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not sure I would call Banjo-Kazooie a very active product for Microsoft.

It absolutely it is. It's a huge part of Rare Replay and they literally used Smash to justify making merchandise for it. In addition, Sakurai directly advertised "go play it on Microsoft". It being quite active is why that even worked. Sakurai wouldn't have bothered advertising it is if Microsoft couldn't make money from his promotion of the product. If it barely existed, it'd be a waste of time to even do that as well. Unless you consider "very active" to mean "new product", then fair enough. Otherwise, yeah, it's an active IP for them. I'm not saying it's a well-used IP either, obviously. There's no doubt they could do better than just constantly using as a re-release compilation with others.

New games isn't what being very active means. It's a constantly used product, it's just poorly used in terms of getting actual new items added to it. If a product constantly is advertised and is only just a re-release? It's quite active. The franchise is dead in a sense, but dead doesn't mean inactive in the way people overall use it. They just mean "no new games". If they were using dead a lot more accurately, it should mean "has absolutely no active product in any way, shape, or form". ...Obviously nobody uses it in a more proper term, so you just go with the fanterm instead like everybody else. Language is silly like that, heh.

 

[RetroBro]

Welcome to the Smashboards Geno thread, where we don't talk about Geno.

Ah well.. what can you do after 3460 pages of posts over the course of almost 15 years.

 

[CopperKoopa]

I don’t see why Geno being DLC over base game means much at all

In fact I feel like DLC characters are the ones who get more attention. Steve broke ****ing twitter.

I know this is an old post at this point but I want to reiterate how much love and detail the DLC characters seem to be getting. They all have a gimmick, they come with several spirits, a brand spanking new stage, lots of references to their games, and a fanfare presentation. There are very rare exceptions and even that comes down to personal tastes (I feel that Banjo was not explored nearly as much as other characters, but I know there are people even in this thread who would say Banjo got more than enough).

Compare a lot of this to base game characters. With the exception of like the Belmonts maybe, most of the base game characters, especially the veterans, feel undercooked. not only does this add fuel to the fire that the next game needs to be a full reboot, but it's evidence that Geno would definitely get extra love

 

[ctt4lfecw]

I know this is an old post at this point but I want to reiterate how much love and detail the DLC characters seem to be getting. They all have a gimmick, they come with several spirits, a brand spanking new stage, lots of references to their games, and a fanfare presentation. There are very rare exceptions and even that comes down to personal tastes (I feel that Banjo was not explored nearly as much as other characters, but I know there are people even in this thread who would say Banjo got more than enough).

Compare a lot of this to base game characters. With the exception of like the Belmonts maybe, most of the base game characters, especially the veterans, feel undercooked. not only does this add fuel to the fire that the next game needs to be a full reboot, but it's evidence that Geno would definitely get extra love

I could see Geno having the timed hits mechanic from Mario RPG. Maybe the X B Y A menu like Hero. And him having that gimmick works as more evidence for being in the pass too right?

 

[CopperKoopa]

I could see Geno having the timed hits mechanic from Mario RPG. Maybe the X B Y A menu like Hero. And him having that gimmick works as more evidence for being in the pass too right?

Well no, because a character like Heihachi or Isaac could have had a gimmick too. Hell, Link and Samus could. It's everything else that supports Geno. The gimmick is just a nice perk

 

[Theguy123]

And to add to this:
-He said the 1st Nintendo give it to him (Yeah, Nintendo gives he games) was a Red Wii with NSMBW. And that game came out in 2009
-He said he knew that Dark Souls was coming to the Switch
-He said he has always knew some Smash characters who were in development like Incineroar, so he knew that grinch leak was fake.
He has said that Geno has been a lock sinse January

sorry but I’m gonna have to ask for a source here otherwise this is highly unlikely.

 

[AugustusB]

So a thought occured to me that could possibly point to who our next fighter could be. Brought it up in the Lloyd thread and I think it is relevant to us here.

Something I noticed in the last Mii costume section is the returning Gil costume. By himself, doesn't mean much, but combining him with Heihachi's costume returning and it feels like a countdown just got initiated to a Namco character. I feel the next fighter is gonna be a Namco fighter that will either be Lloyd or something new with Lloyd's costume returning. Perhaps I am over thinking it, but why not have the Namco costumes return together? Just throwing something out there.

Oh right, what does this mean for Geno? Well, let's say the next fighter is from Square Enix and it is Geno. We would not see a Namco costume returning with him since Square is pretty sacred with their IPs. And I feel it would be awful to string fans along with the lingering costume to return. Lloyd and Geno alike.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Welcome to the Smashboards Geno thread, where we don't talk about Geno.

"The first rule of the Geno Thread is that you do not talk about Geno."

Seriously though, speculation and guessing will always relate to other fighters and topics, especially given what we have and haven't seen of DLC at this point.