Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RetrogamerMax]

So how would you guys feel if we get all the way towards the end of next year with only FP11 to be announced and there is still no Geno or Geno Mii costume in sight? Personally, that would suck if Nintendo and Sakurai wanted that long to announce Geno or crush our dreams. But wasn't Geno the last Smash 4 DLC Mii costume announced back in the day? What if he is the last newcomer to be announced for Ultimate like how he was the last Mii costume announced for Smash 4?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Playable Geno is obviously "the one we want", but like... if a Geno Mii Costume came with a playable Crono, Neku or Sephiroth, then I can't say I'd be too upset. That's kind of the "problem" with Square Enix: they have too many cool characters

This might be my own optimism, but I do think we're getting a Square character with some Mii Costumes. Ideally for me it would be:

Playable: Geno (or Terra)
Costumes: Chocobo Hat, Neku, Sephiroth, Crono, Terra (or Geno)

 

[Lord Woomy]

Or maybe they ended up being scrapped along the way, like the Chorus Kids? It's possible that there simply wasn't enough time, so they settled on Rathalos as being "good enough". Regardless of the why, there was nothing stopping discussions from happening again in the future.

Sakurai has stated that Ultimate is the first Smash game where every fighter that was developed for base game made it in

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Sakurai has stated that Ultimate is the first Smash game where every fighter that was developed for base game made it in

I don't believe that as there is evidence that Plant was a base game character that got pushed back to the DLC lineup due to time constraints. Evidence being he is the ONLY DLC character to receive a Palutena's Guidance codex plus being a bonus free character right before the 1st Pass.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

This might be my own optimism, but I do think we're getting a Square character with some Mii Costumes. Ideally for me it would be:

Playable: Geno (or Terra)
Costumes: Chocobo Hat, Neku, Sephiroth, Crono, Terra (or Geno)

Oh a Square Enix fighter is coming for sure. To quote Detective Pikachu "I feel it in my jellies"

Geno is obviously "the dream". Like... Geno with the Bowser's Keep/Vista Hill/Exor stage, that'd be STUPENDOUS, then throw in that missing Chocobo Mii hat, a Monstro Town Dojo Jinx Mii Brawler costume, maybe a Valentina Mii hat, and some odd ones here and there and we'd be good

But like... Playable Crono with a super crazy time travel stage whishing around from prehistoric to future to end of time, etc etc and then it comes with a Geno Deluxe Mii, Chocobo hat, Lucca Helmet/glasses combo/Mii Gunner suit... these are cool beans too. I wouldn't argue.

If you pointed a gun at my head and told me "pick one, which one do you think is actually coming", I currently think Geno, the evidence has piled up for that kid

 

[Theguy123]

Here's how I I'd rate Geno's future from most to least likely (again this more of a prediction than a wish):

1. Premium Mii Costume - Not really the one I want, but given the precedent of improved costumes, especially with the likes of Bomberman, it is something I can imagine seeing.

2. Playable Geno - The ideal outcome and something I'm not prepared to count out yet given that both the base game and the first Fighter's Pass included long time wants from Smash fans

3. Smash 4 Mii Costume - Would definitely be a downer and a bit of a surprise given the long wait. with the only reason being that Nintendo and/or Square Enix simply didn't feel an upgrade was worth the effort. Not likely, but a bit of a hypothetical.

4. No Geno Costume - Extremely difficult to even humor given the DLC's consistent pattern of bring the third party costumes back.

Each mii costume so far has had some connection to the fighter they’ve come with if Geno comes back as a gunner mii costume then either a gunner, RPG rep or mario rep is guaranteed. That actually narrows things down a bit when you think about it. Dunno if it narrows things down a lot but it narrows things down a bit.

 

[Mizzle]

Each mii costume so far has had some connection to the fighter they’ve come with if Geno comes back as a gunner mii costume then either a gunner, RPG rep or mario rep is guaranteed. That actually narrows things down a bit when you think about it. Dunno if it narrows things down a lot but it narrows things down a bit.

The Geno Mii Costume would come back with another Square Enix character. They have always included their costumes with their own characters.

 

[Theguy123]

The Geno Mii Costume would come back with another Square Enix character. They have always included their costumes with their own characters.

I guess but I was going more along the lines of if geno’s costume returns and we don’t get a square rep. I don’t know much about other square reps but each character in the passes so far have had unique and interesting gimmicks so are there any other square characters beside geno that would have unique gimmicks in there movesets.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Every DLC character doesn't need to have a unique gimmick. Just take a look at Banjo and Byleth.

I guess but I was going more along the lines of if geno’s costume returns and we don’t get a square rep. I don’t know much about other square reps but each character in the passes so far have had unique and interesting gimmicks so are there any other square characters beside geno that would have unique gimmicks in there movesets.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

I guess but I was going more along the lines of if geno’s costume returns and we don’t get a square rep. I don’t know much about other square reps but each character in the passes so far have had unique and interesting gimmicks so are there any other square characters beside geno that would have unique gimmicks in there movesets.

Neku's got his pins and partner mechanic "Ready to DIE? Then DIE"

Sephiroth has a REALLY REALLY LONG SWORD and one wing/Meta Knight jump to go with it


Crono has his techs/team up moves where like Lucca lights his sword on fire and then he jumps up in the air and stabs into the ground somehow not lighting himself on fire while doing it.

Not that there NEEDS to be a gimmick

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Both possible outcomes (Geno getting a Mii Fighter Costume or playable character) can happen, I know that some of you thinks “why Nintendo would hold geno mii costume” but remember that during base game, they revealed Isaac assist trophy at last smash direct, one month before the games released (when at that time, there were some speculation for Isaac as a playable fighter). So yeah, they can be “cruel” if they want.

Moreover, why does it need to released the possible geno mii costume with a square-enix fighter? Can’t they released it with another fighter? Isn’t that another fan-rule we invented to give us some hope?

Enjoy this fighter pass and always tempered you expectations

 

[Theguy123]

Every DLC character doesn't need to have a unique gimmick. Just take a look at Banjo and Byleth.

byleths was the different relics and banjos was basically bird abuse with an invincible side B. They’re not the strongest of unique gimmicks but they’re new and fresh.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Both possible outcomes (Geno getting a Mii Fighter Costume or playable character) can happen, I know that some of you thinks “why Nintendo would hold geno mii costume” but remember that during base game, they revealed Isaac assist trophy at last smash direct, one month before the games released (when at that time, there were some speculation for Isaac as a playable fighter). So yeah, they can be “cruel” if they want.

Moreover, why does it need to released the possible geno mii costume with a square-enix fighter? Can’t they released it with another fighter? Isn’t that another fan-rule we invented to give us some hope?

Enjoy this fighter pass and always tempered you expectations

OOF.... don't remind me as a Shadow the Hedgehog fan.... they didn't show Shadow and showed the Knuckles assist trophy and we got all excited then our hopes were DASHED.. SPINDASHED even... upon the horrible truth.

But yeah, Geno would most likely come with a Square Enix fighter, I believe pattern has been "Square stuff comes with Square stuff"

 

[Mr. Peepee]

A lot of the DLC Mii costumes have come with fighters that are related to their series or are characters from the same company (with small exceptions of course). This fan-rule if you wanna call it kinda has some legitimacy to it.

Moreover, why does it need to released the possible geno mii costume with a square-enix fighter? Can’t they released it with another fighter? Isn’t that another fan-rule we invented to give us some hope?

 

[ForsakenM]

Man, people REALLY don't want to accept that fact that MH had it's chance and not only didn't it happen, but we got the perfect representation for the series instead AND another character that essentially does what they would barring traps, barrel bombs, and some other items.

It's like, whenever a big new title that doesn't feature only characters who are either in Smash already or that have been unanimously written off by the community at large, it triggers some sort of Winter Soldier command and the brainwashed masses all start talking about how they have a chance.

I'm waiting for the next Elder Scrolls to be announced for Switch and how this will mean Dragonborn is back on the table somehow.

Ignore all this drivel and keep your eyes on the prize, guys! Genovember is approaching.

 

[CannonStreak]

Man, people REALLY don't want to accept that fact that MH had it's chance and not only didn't it happen, but we got the perfect representation for the series instead AND another character that essentially does what they would barring traps, barrel bombs, and some other items.

It's like, whenever a big new title that doesn't feature only characters who are either in Smash already or that have been unanimously written off by the community at large, it triggers some sort of Winter Soldier command and the brainwashed masses all start talking about how they have a chance.

I'm waiting for the next Elder Scrolls to be announced for Switch and how this will mean Dragonborn is back on the table somehow.

Ignore all this drivel and keep your eyes on the prize, guys! Genovember is approaching.

Genovember???

But yeah, I think Monster Hunter already had its chance as you said, and unless it somehow does happen in the future, it won't happen at all.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

A lot of the DLC Mii costumes have come with fighters that are related to their series or are characters from the same company (with small exceptions of course). This fan-rule if you wanna call it kinda has some legitimacy to it.

Yes, but, what if there isn’t a square-enix fighter on this FP? They still have some good candidates alongside Geno sure, but we don’t know if Nintendo thought of collaborating again with S-E. They aren’t the most flexible company to work as we saw with Cloud case (no spirits and only 2 songs, with the amount of great music FF has).

 

[DeltaCrow]

Yes, but, what if there isn’t a square-enix fighter on this FP? They still have some good candidates alongside Geno sure, but we don’t know if Nintendo thought of collaborating again with S-E.

I think people are more saying that Square is likely to feature in FP2 as opposed to being a certainty to feature. And tbf a Square rep has a lot going for them considering the absent miis and the fact that Square is loaded with tons of amazing potential characters. I think the amount of Dragon Quest content in smash also stands to show that Square is willing to play ball with Nintendo.

 

[ForsakenM]

Both possible outcomes (Geno getting a Mii Fighter Costume or playable character) can happen, I know that some of you thinks “why Nintendo would hold geno mii costume” but remember that during base game, they revealed Isaac assist trophy at last smash direct, one month before the games released (when at that time, there were some speculation for Isaac as a playable fighter). So yeah, they can be “cruel” if they want.

Moreover, why does it need to released the possible geno mii costume with a square-enix fighter? Can’t they released it with another fighter? Isn’t that another fan-rule we invented to give us some hope?

Enjoy this fighter pass and always tempered you expectations

No, stop spreading this stupid 'Hype Responsibly' crap, no matter how you phrase it I will fight it until the bitter end.

Guys, get HYPE for Geno's chances for Ultimate. No matter what excuse people make, it doesn't hold up to all the evidence.

As proof, let me easily counter these arguments.

First off, Isaac's AT reveal wasn't 'being cruel' because Nintendo doesn't actively hate their consumers and you'd do best to remember that. Get out of this mindset that Nintendo hates any certain group of fans, because they don't, but they also just can't do everything you ask all at once and some sections of the fandom are much smaller than others so they have to play by the big ones first. It is well established that the backlash that Isaac's AT reveal got was a shock to Nintendo peeps because they thought it would be a positive response to see the AT return when it was removed in Smash 4, not that it would be anger because fans though Isaac had a chance the whole way through. It was simply a case of those in charge not understanding that portion of the fandom

Us Geno fans don't have to worry about this, as not only were we acknowledged with a Mii Costume in Smash 4, it was the only with it's own Splash Screen AND Sakurai acknowledged our existence in an interview. Sakurai knows about us and that we still want Geno as playable, and he even said the costume was essentially a 'This is all I can do for now' contribution.

As for Geno's costume coming back with someone else from Square, it could happen if there was another contender. Fortunately for us, there is no Square rep more requested or popular than Geno right now outside of Sora, and he got canned for this pass and possibly just for Ultimate in general. No single other Square rep is as talked about or as requested as our boy, not even Lara Croft or Sephiroth can top him, so if anything one of THEM will come as a costume with Geno. Also, no, a premium costume is not possible for Geno despite what papagenos may say to keep the Geno detractors away from his house so he can sleep at night. You don't wait this long on a character you know is highly demanded just to show a premium costume that you would have already had ready during the first Fighter's Pass since it would have been negotiated for when they negotiated for the rights for Geno and Mallow's likeness and to mention Mega/Smilax and Chewie. If anything, we would have gotten the old costume back with Hero or in another grabbag costume wave and it hasn't happened.

Add in all the other evidence we have, and Geno is exactly what I have said for a couple months now, which is that he is inevitable. Sure, he wasn't CP7 but he could easily be CP8 and even if he isn't he's still coming eventually. That is just how big a deal he is.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

What are some songs that you guys want to see with Geno? I'll start
Bowsers Castle Theme (Remix or Original)
Beware the Forest Mushrooms (Remix)
Still, the Road is Full of Dangers (Remix)
Boss or Mini-Boss theme (Remix)
Boosters theme (Remix or Original, they are both ok with me!)
Nimbus Land Theme (Remix)
Barrel Volcano Theme (Remix)
Fight Against Smithy (Remix, maybe they can connect the two phases?)

 

[RetrogamerMax]

OOF.... don't remind me as a Shadow the Hedgehog fan.... they didn't show Shadow and showed the Knuckles assist trophy and we got all excited then our hopes were DASHED.. SPINDASHED even... upon the horrible truth.

But yeah, Geno would most likely come with a Square Enix fighter, I believe pattern has been "Square stuff comes with Square stuff"

I remember during Smash 4 when they revealed Ridley's shadow on Pyrosphere in the April 2014 Smash Direct, a lot of people including myself thought his shadow was too small and he was going to playable only for our dreams to be crushed in the 50-Fact Extravaganza Direct half a year later in October of 2014 when they confirmed he was a stage hazard. This feeling sucks man.

 

[CannonStreak]

No, stop spreading this stupid 'Hype Responsibly' crap, no matter how you phrase it I will fight it until the bitter end.

Guys, get HYPE for Geno's chances for Ultimate. No matter what excuse people make, it doesn't hold up to all the evidence.

As proof, let me easily counter these arguments.

First off, Isaac's AT reveal wasn't 'being cruel' because Nintendo doesn't actively hate their consumers and you'd do best to remember that. Get out of this mindset that Nintendo hates any certain group of fans, because they don't, but they also just can't do everything you ask all at once and some sections of the fandom are much smaller than others so they have to play by the big ones first. It is well established that the backlash that Isaac's AT reveal got was a shock to Nintendo peeps because they thought it would be a positive response to see the AT return when it was removed in Smash 4, not that it would be anger because fans though Isaac had a chance the whole way through. It was simply a case of those in charge not understanding that portion of the fandom

Us Geno fans don't have to worry about this, as not only were we acknowledged with a Mii Costume in Smash 4, it was the only with it's own Splash Screen AND Sakurai acknowledged our existence in an interview. Sakurai knows about us and that we still want Geno as playable, and he even said the costume was essentially a 'This is all I can do for now' contribution.

As for Geno's costume coming back with someone else from Square, it could happen if there was another contender. Fortunately for us, there is no Square rep more requested or popular than Geno right now outside of Sora, and he got canned for this pass and possibly just for Ultimate in general. No single other Square rep is as talked about or as requested as our boy, not even Lara Croft or Sephiroth can top him, so if anything one of THEM will come as a costume with Geno. Also, no, a premium costume is not possible for Geno despite what papagenos may say to keep the Geno detractors away from his house so he can sleep at night. You don't wait this long on a character you know is highly demanded just to show a premium costume that you would have already had ready during the first Fighter's Pass since it would have been negotiated for when they negotiated for the rights for Geno and Mallow's likeness and to mention Mega/Smilax and Chewie. If anything, we would have gotten the old costume back with Hero or in another grabbag costume wave and it hasn't happened.

Add in all the other evidence we have, and Geno is exactly what I have said for a couple months now, which is that he is inevitable. Sure, he wasn't CP7 but he could easily be CP8 and even if he isn't he's still coming eventually. That is just how big a deal he is.

I understand your stance on hype responsibly, but I can't exactly agree with it, or think it is crap.

Not trying to say that myself, but from your opening words of the quoted post, even if it is not hyping responsibly, I think you should chill and relax. I don't think there was a need to get confrontational.

 

[papagenos]

Also, no, a premium costume is not possible for Geno despite what papagenos may say to keep the Geno detractors away from his house so he can sleep at night.

I do need to sleep occasionally (for the sole purpose of be well rested whenever Geno gets revealed!).

 

[Enigma735]

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that if Square Enix were to get a 3rd rep, which sounds extremely likely, it would be anyone other than Geno. Square Enix already has their two biggest franchises represented with playable characters: Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, and as much as I want Geno, I can't deny the importance of these two franchises as they are very iconic and these two franchises alone essentially makes up Square Enix as a company. As such, I do understand how Cloud and Hero would be a first priority for Square. Now, I don't really think Square Enix has an excuse to miss out on Geno this time. I've pointed this out numerous times, but Square knows how popular of a character Geno is. If Square didn't know about Geno's popularity, he wouldn't have gotten a Mii Outfit in the first place. Sakurai knows, Nintendo knows, Square Enix knows, EVERYONE KNOWS how demanded Geno is for Smash. If their is anytime to get Geno as a playable character, now would be the time.

 

[LapidotShipper4Life]

What are some songs that you guys want to see with Geno? I'll start
Bowsers Castle Theme (Remix or Original)
Beware the Forest Mushrooms (Remix)
Still, the Road is Full of Dangers (Remix)
Boss or Mini-Boss theme (Remix)
Boosters theme (Remix or Original, they are both ok with me!)
Nimbus Land Theme (Remix)
Barrel Volcano Theme (Remix)
Fight Against Smithy (Remix, maybe they can connect the two phases?)

I would love to see:

Forest Maze (Both Original and Remix)
Armed Boss (Both Original and Remix)
Booster’s Theme
Culex’s Theme
Slope Looped
Fight Against Bowser (Both Original and Remix)
The Axem Rangers Dropped In
Star Hill (Both Original and Remix)
Fight Against Monsters (Both Original and Remix)
Fight Against Smithy (Both Original and Remix)
Fight Against Smithy, Who Likes Transforming (Both Original and Remix)

 

[Mizzle]

What are some songs that you guys want to see with Geno? I'll start
Bowsers Castle Theme (Remix or Original)
Beware the Forest Mushrooms (Remix)
Still, the Road is Full of Dangers (Remix)
Boss or Mini-Boss theme (Remix)
Boosters theme (Remix or Original, they are both ok with me!)
Nimbus Land Theme (Remix)
Barrel Volcano Theme (Remix)
Fight Against Smithy (Remix, maybe they can connect the two phases?)

The great thing about SMRPG music is that Yoko Shimomura has done remixes for Smash since Brawl, so assuming that she has the rights to them, we should expect more than two songs.

I'd also add
Happy Adventure, Delightful Adventure
Fight Against Monsters
Weapons Factory
Geno Medley (Geno Awakens/Let's Play "Geno"/Goodbye Geno)

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Me when Papagenos shows up

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that if Square Enix were to get a 3rd rep, which sounds extremely likely, it would be anyone other that Geno. Square Enix already has their two biggest franchises represented with playable characters: Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, and as much as I want Geno, I can't deny the importance of these two franchises as they are very iconic and these two franchises alone essentially makes up Square Enix as a company. As such, I do understand how Cloud and Hero would be a first priority for Square. Now, I don't really think Square Enix has an excuse to miss out on Geno this time. I've pointed this out numerous times, but Square knows how popular of a character Geno is. If Square didn't know about Geno's popularity, he wouldn't have gotten a Mii Outfit in the first place. Sakurai knows, Nintendo knows, Square Enix knows, EVERYONE KNOWS how demanded Geno is for Smash. If their is anytime to get Geno as a playable character, now would be the time.

I think its worth noting that even as a Geno fan myself there are other franchise fighters under their belt that likely would please a lot people if included. Other Final Fantasy Characters, Sora, Lara Croft, Crono, Neku, would all be a big deal to their respective fans if they showed up. I think 2B is a complete long shot given the nature of her costume (and the complete lack of legacy by Nier or Drakengard on Nintendo consoles), but even I can't rule her out entirely. I do think Geno is unique given his long time status as a Smash favorite, but Nintendo and Sakurai may be working off a different set of priorities.

Basically I'm a little wary of seeing anything as inevitable; I'm most certain of Crash Bandicoot becoming a fighter yet I still can't discount the idea that he won't make it in for one reason or another. I think SE has a decent chance of getting represented again, and Geno a decent chance within that paradigm, but Smash is littered with too many cases of "Of course they'll get in" only for them not to for me say his inclusion is a given.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that if Square Enix were to get a 3rd rep, which sounds extremely likely, it would be anyone other than Geno. Square Enix already has their two biggest franchises represented with playable characters: Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, and as much as I want Geno, I can't deny the importance of these two franchises as they are very iconic and these two franchises alone essentially makes up Square Enix as a company. As such, I do understand how Cloud and Hero would be a first priority for Square. Now, I don't really think Square Enix has an excuse to miss out on Geno this time. I've pointed this out numerous times, but Square knows how popular of a character Geno is. If Square didn't know about Geno's popularity, he wouldn't have gotten a Mii Outfit in the first place. Sakurai knows, Nintendo knows, Square Enix knows, EVERYONE KNOWS how demanded Geno is for Smash. If their is anytime to get Geno as a playable character, now would be the time.

The only other character Square-Enix would pass Geno over for again would be Sora because of his insane popularity. Both Geno and Sora are insanely popular, but I could see them going for Sora instead because of how much money he would make them. It's still possible we could grt both of them and make everyone happy just like how both Banjo & Kazooie and Steve both got in.

 

[Megadoomer]

What are some songs that you guys want to see with Geno? I'll start
Bowsers Castle Theme (Remix or Original)
Beware the Forest Mushrooms (Remix)
Still, the Road is Full of Dangers (Remix)
Boss or Mini-Boss theme (Remix)
Boosters theme (Remix or Original, they are both ok with me!)
Nimbus Land Theme (Remix)
Barrel Volcano Theme (Remix)
Fight Against Smithy (Remix, maybe they can connect the two phases?)

If we get the Square-Enix standard of "two songs per character", Beware the Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against An Armed Boss.

If we can get more...
-Still, the Road is Full of Dangers
-Peach's Castle (Fortune Street)
-Fight Against Bowser
-Fight Against Smithy
-Fight Against a Somewhat Stronger Monster
-And My Name's Booster
-Rose Town
-Fight Against Culex

Honestly, I'd probably take about half of the Mario RPG soundtrack if I could.

If we're counting Mii costumes, I'd hope that we'd either get One Winged Angel or Emil's theme.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't believe that as there is evidence that Plant was a base game character that got pushed back to the DLC lineup due to time constraints. Evidence being he is the ONLY DLC character to receive a Palutena's Guidance codex plus being a bonus free character right before the 1st Pass.

That's not even good evidence. DLC was determined nearly 2 years before the game's development finished. That's a significant amount of time for PP to be decided and having a Guidance.

The so-called evidence is inconsistent at best. A lot of it requires extra theories that tries to make sense of stuff that doesn't even need it. Like Greninja's Classic Mode. Yes, it doesn't fight two Grass-related characters. And? There's no real thing stating every fight must be 2 or 3 characters VS it. Plus, if it was that important, why isn't it fighting Pikmin & Olimiar or Pikmin & Alph too? It was very easy to throw in someone grass-related, but they didn't. And that's just one example of a very flawed theory. Even PP's amiibo is listed directly after all the base game's characters, including the 3rd parties. It was most likely always DLC.

If his statement was all the characters developed for base game made it in(I'd like to see that source), then that's the hard evidence proving PP was always DLC from the start. Which honestly matches up with what we know of when DLC was determined. All the information found on it was well after DLC would've been determined, meaning it's not remotely good evidence it could've been in base. Being started on at least 2 years before the game finalizes, or even 6 months, all make sense. Because it'd be in the final files we found. It was already started, after all. The only real evidence we have is that development was started at least by 6 months, which again, is after DLC was determined.

And no, its amiibo releasing early doesn't mean anything. It released before some Pokemon(of which require 3 companies to work with), is a full 1st party Nintendo character(this makes it relatively easy to figure out, especially 2 years in advance), and was released around the time the Bonus DLC came out(in order to help promote the idea of getting the game early). It's not exactly that odd to release amiibo in time to promote stuff. Like... what happens quite often. Timing isn't based upon when characters were added or meant for base. It's based upon release schedules that help promote product. Besides, the only amiibo that constantly take a while to release are also 2nd and 3rd party, being owned by multiple companies. That isn't a coincidence. The only other ones are Echoes, who are not treated as big of reveals too, so logically releasing them after the bigger characters make sense too.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

That's not even good evidence. DLC was determined nearly 2 years before the game's development finished. That's a significant amount of time for PP to be decided and having a Guidance.

The so-called evidence is inconsistent at best. A lot of it requires extra theories that tries to make sense of stuff that doesn't even need it. Like Greninja's Classic Mode. Yes, it doesn't fight two Grass-related characters. And? There's no real thing stating every fight must be 2 or 3 characters VS it. Plus, if it was that important, why isn't it fighting Pikmin & Olimiar or Pikmin & Alph too? It was very easy to throw in someone grass-related, but they didn't. And that's just one example of a very flawed theory. Even PP's amiibo is listed directly after all the base game's characters, including the 3rd parties. It was most likely always DLC.

If his statement was all the characters developed for base game made it in(I'd like to see that source), then that's the hard evidence proving PP was always DLC from the start. Which honestly matches up with what we know of when DLC was determined. All the information found on it was well after DLC would've been determined, meaning it's not remotely good evidence it could've been in base. Being started on at least 2 years before the game finalizes, or even 6 months, all make sense. Because it'd be in the final files we found. It was already started, after all. The only real evidence we have is that development was started at least by 6 months, which again, is after DLC was determined.

And no, its amiibo releasing early doesn't mean anything. It released before some Pokemon(of which require 3 companies to work with), is a full 1st party Nintendo character(this makes it relatively easy to figure out, especially 2 years in advance), and was released around the time the Bonus DLC came out(in order to help promote the idea of getting the game early). It's not exactly that odd to release amiibo in time to promote stuff. Like... what happens quite often. Timing isn't based upon when characters were added or meant for base. It's based upon release schedules that help promote product. Besides, the only amiibo that constantly take a while to release are also 2nd and 3rd party, being owned by multiple companies. That isn't a coincidence. The only other ones are Echoes, who are not treated as big of reveals too, so logically releasing them after the bigger characters make sense too.

Tell me why Plant was the only DLC character to get a PG codex than huh? It doesn't make any sense for him to be the only DLC character to have one and it would make more sense if he was originally a base game character who got pushed back due to time constraints.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that if Square Enix were to get a 3rd rep, which sounds extremely likely, it would be anyone other than Geno. Square Enix already has their two biggest franchises represented with playable characters: Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, and as much as I want Geno, I can't deny the importance of these two franchises as they are very iconic and these two franchises alone essentially makes up Square Enix as a company. As such, I do understand how Cloud and Hero would be a first priority for Square. Now, I don't really think Square Enix has an excuse to miss out on Geno this time. I've pointed this out numerous times, but Square knows how popular of a character Geno is. If Square didn't know about Geno's popularity, he wouldn't have gotten a Mii Outfit in the first place. Sakurai knows, Nintendo knows, Square Enix knows, EVERYONE KNOWS how demanded Geno is for Smash. If their is anytime to get Geno as a playable character, now would be the time.

Ok, that last part is interesting. How you mention Square knew that Geno was demanded so they without a single problem let Sakurai use a Geno Mii Costume. The fact that Square knows that Geno is popular and the fact that we know square is open to letting Geno in by the Seven Squares is huge for he

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Tell me why Plant was the only DLC character to get a PG codex than huh? It doesn't make any sense for him to be the only DLC character to have one and it would make more sense if he was originally a base game character who got pushed back due to time constraints.

Because it was literally developed 6 months before the release of the game. When it was still being done. They can't actually get any PG done for other DLC because the rest of the Fighter's Pass characters were being worked on later. It's no different from why Mewtwo and the rest didn't get a PG. Because it was all or nothing. The PG would also have been easily done before November, when negotiations were finished, which means they can't really make a PG for characters that aren't finalized. It's a waste of time and money for voice actors.

It was simply developed at the right time. No more, no less.

Never mind we're talking about at least 2 years before release it could've been determined. Do you know how easy it is to get the PG over a year in advance? Of course you wouldn't have them for anybody else but characters already indefinitely figured out. There's quite literally a 2 year window for PG for PP, but not for Joker and the rest. Since remember, they were not actually figured out fully until November. Why on earth would you really give one to say, Banjo & Kazooie, but not Hero or Joker, etc. Byleth would be the only one they could've otherwise, cause 1st parties don't need extra licensing. Again, we already know PG would be all or nothing. Smash 4 proved that already. PP is a unique situation where it was determined early enough on, that's all. This is rarely ever going to be the case for future games.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Because it was literally developed 6 months before the release of the game. When it was still being done. They can't actually get any PG done for other DLC because the rest of the Fighter's Pass characters were being worked on later. It's no different from why Mewtwo and the rest didn't get a PG. Because it was all or nothing. The PG would also have been easily done before November, when negotiations were finished, which means they can't really make a PG for characters that aren't finalized. It's a waste of time and money for voice actors.

It was simply developed at the right time. No more, no less.

Never mind we're talking about at least 2 years before release it could've been determined. Do you know how easy it is to get the PG over a year in advance? Of course you wouldn't have them for anybody else but characters already indefinitely figured out. There's quite literally a 2 year window for PG for PP, but not for Joker and the rest. Since remember, they were not actually figured out fully until November. Why on earth would you really give one to say, Banjo & Kazooie, but not Hero or Joker, etc. Byleth would be the only one they could've otherwise, cause 1st parties don't need extra licensing. Again, we already know PG would be all or nothing. Smash 4 proved that already. PP is a unique situation where it was determined early enough on, that's all. This is rarely ever going to be the case for future games.

Still you don't know that and neither do I or all of us. But I'm just speculating though that it is evidence.

 

[Aerospherology]

What are some songs that you guys want to see with Geno? I'll start
Bowsers Castle Theme (Remix or Original)
Beware the Forest Mushrooms (Remix)
Still, the Road is Full of Dangers (Remix)
Boss or Mini-Boss theme (Remix)
Boosters theme (Remix or Original, they are both ok with me!)
Nimbus Land Theme (Remix)
Barrel Volcano Theme (Remix)
Fight Against Smithy (Remix, maybe they can connect the two phases?)

Beware the Forest's Mushrooms/The Starlight's Flower (remix)
Fight against an Armed Boss (remix)
Grandpa and the Delightful Tadpoles/Let's Do the Fooka Fooka (remix)
And My Name's Booster (original)
Fight Against Smithy/Fight Against Smithy, Who Likes Transforming (remix)
Come On! (from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions)
Popple and Rookie (from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions)
The Ultimate Show (original)
Red Streamer Battle (original)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Still you don't know that and neither do I or all of us. But I'm just speculating though that it is evidence.

You asked for an explanation. That's the explanation. The evidence is not based on anything actually hard enough. Unless we legitimately know when the PG was recorded, we have, as I noted, a two year window for that, specifically when DLC was determined. By Nintendo, no less. They directly decided it should be done and talked it over with Sakurai. With PP's only data being found well after this time, that's more than enough time to get the PG done for everyone. Keep in mind that Incineroar did not actually get added to the game till later as well. That means there's a massively good chance the PG was done much later, when all the plausible characters were done. As again, PP was clearly decided during development, and not after the game was finished, there's a lot of time to get both done.

That's why the PG point is very flawed. It assumes it was done well before DLC was determined, but the fact Incineroar was added to the game later also means that the PG was more likely done later too. Recording all the lines at once makes a lot more sense than constantly calling them back each time, which wastes a lot of money. So the window has to be when both were already figured out as characters. Now do note it was 2016 when DLC was determined. This was around when Incineroar was chosen. The timing adds up entirely as well. These things are rarely coincidences.

This isn't like putting development on a character to showcase what they could be like. This is outright voice acting, which is almost never done in tons of parts. Palutena herself and her guidances(along with Viridi, and other such characters) would be recorded near each other in order to keep everything on schedule.

So yeah, there's a pretty good explanation. And that it was done after DLC was determined. ...Which is when PP is too. Not exactly a coincidence.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

It's like, whenever a big new title that doesn't feature only characters who are either in Smash already or that have been unanimously written off by the community at large, it triggers some sort of Winter Soldier command and the brainwashed masses all start talking about how they have a chance.

Normally i don't agree with you on most points, but this one hits hard actually. It's the only reason why some characters like Ryza are even talked about, even if she lacks many merits compared to Tecmo's own Ryu Hayabusa, or even a Dynsaty Warriors character.

Im partially okay with the idea of bringing more characters into the conversation, if only because it can be refreshing to talk about certain characters that were ignored by the community at large before (almost NOBODY talked about Simon and Castlevania before Vergeben repeated Stealth's statement, only then people considered talking) but the idea that a Third Party IP getting a game on the Swtich equals Smash is just dumb.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just to point out, Castlevania did get a bit more than "nobody" for talk. It wasn't heavily talked about, but there were memes thanks to MegaMan appearing in the first place. Mostly Captain N ones. People honestly wanted Simon in just cause of that.

It was more outside of Smashboards, though. But yeah, it got a decent amount of discussion overall. And it had little to do with new games/shows/etc.

 

[MattX20]

At any rate, my current thought process regarding FP8 onwards is looking towards the major non-weekly tournaments like the upcoming Mario 35th challengers cup that takes place in November/December, since both MinMin and Steve were revealed after the Smash tournaments/challenge cups ended