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I was so disappointed when the Grinch leak turned out to be fake. I wanted the leak to be real mainly because of Banjo and Geno, some of my most wanteds. The fact that the leak turned out to be fake still kinda stings a little to this day. However, since I got Banjo, the pain of that leak didn't seem as painful anymore and now that Geno seems to be one of the most likely characters, that is when I will not care at all about this leak being fake, just as long as I get two of my most wanteds from that leak.
Do note, I wouldn't be against Isaac, Chorus Kids, Mach Rider or Shadow either, but I can't say I have a history with any of these characters that makes me want them, but I wouldn't mind them. Especially Isaac since he is another big Brawl request that has yet to get included.
This is just a hunch, but I feel like we just gotta be patient for some more time. If we stay patient at the times it's hardest to be, I'm sure it will pay off later (I mean this for both Geno and Nintendo news).
I doubt Pokemon will be the other presumed 1st party rep we get in this pass. I'm leaning more towards Xenoblade, Donkey Kong, Kirby, or even Rhythm Heaven
If we get another Fire Emblem character that is essentially marketing (see Byleth...), and not someone like Lyn and Black Knight that people have supported since way back ... then I wouldn´t disqualify another Pokemon rep. Especially a Gen8 one. Yes, I know it had that spirit event, but they just barely scratched that top of the iceberg with spirit candidates and I think Min Min should prove that there are no rules besides "for good boys and girls" and being a character that originated in a videogame franchise.
Decided to look into the Switch online maintenance history going back to Ultimate's announcement in March 2018. Basically what I found is that the maintenance that has gone on the last two weeks and this upcoming Monday is practically identical to what happens before General Directs.
View attachment 280590
All I can think about is how incredible it would have been for Nintendo to respond to the hype around the Grinch Leak by adding the rest of them to Fighter Pass 2. You could even keep Min Min—Geno, Isaac, Chorus Kids, Mach Rider, and Shadow as 7 through 11.
Decided to look into the Switch online maintenance history going back to Ultimate's announcement in March 2018. Basically what I found is that the maintenance that has gone on the last two weeks and this upcoming Monday is practically identical to what happens before General Directs.
IMO I wouldn't. Don't get me wrong, they're good characters but Fighter's Pass 1 I think is a more well rounded selection than the Grinch "Side 3rd party character and Deep Cut Nintendo series + Geno" thing.
Debatable, Nintendo did showcase Cadence of Hyrule in the first. It's entirely possible we see a Partner's Showcase throw in Smash as a heavy hitter or have them run almost concurrently. Smash is a game directed by a third party, developed by third parties, that is releasing DLC content from mostly third parties.
IMO I wouldn't. Don't get me wrong, they're good characters but Fighter's Pass 1 I think is a more well rounded selection than the Grinch "Side 3rd party character and Deep Cut Nintendo series + Geno" thing.
I think people heavy into speculation forget that each wave of DLC needs to appeal to the widest net possible. That doesn't just stop at the selection itself, but hearing "Crash Bandicoot is in Smash" vs. "Adol Christian is in Smash" could be the difference between tens of thousands of purchases. Min Min - Geno - Mach Rider - Chorus Kids - Shadow - Isaac isn't a wide net at all.
Debatable, Nintendo did showcase Cadence of Hyrule in the first. It's entirely possible we see a Partner's Showcase throw in Smash as a heavy hitter or have them run almost concurrently. Smash is a game directed by a third party, developed by third parties, that is releasing DLC content from mostly third parties.
I think people heavy into speculation forget that each wave of DLC needs to appeal to the widest net possible. That doesn't just stop at the selection itself, but hearing "Crash Bandicoot is in Smash" vs. "Adol Christian is in Smash" could be the difference between tens of thousands of purchases. Min Min - Geno - Mach Rider - Chorus Kids - Shadow - Isaac isn't a wide net at all.
Well in that case what in the hell were they thinking putting Terry in the game.... Couldn't even see that so called 'net of appeal' with a 100x magnified telescope. I'd say Byleth and Corrin also but they get enough hate as it is (rightfully so). Sakurai does shoot big sometimes but not nearly often enough. Dude is scared of working with Americans because of a language barrier.... Seriously...
I will be the first to tell you. I never have and never will worship Sakurai like a good helping of Smash fans do. He is just the one in control for the moment. I've been waiting for someone else to pick up the mantle for years. Done with him and his narrow minded ideals.
Now I'll give him Cloud. That was a true eye opener at the time. Banjo would be 2nd. That is it for widest and most praise-worthy appeal in my eyes, but hey I'm very hard to impress. I say the same thing for most 3rd or 1st parties that get revealed if they made sense all along. "About time"... "About time..".."About damn time"...
He needs to shoot way bigger for me to be floored. Like the following:
Agumon = Pokemon vs Digimon in the same game
Geno = I still believe he is the last character that isn't there that should be. Sorry Waluigi..
A true M RATED rep like Scorpion or Doom Guy would blow anyone away.
Sora = I can make anything happen. Disney means nothing.
Master Chief = Face of Xbox
I'd say Crash but I'd rather complain if he doesn't make it in instead. SINCE HE IS A NO ****ING BRAINER....
Absolutely. No hindsight bias here. I would’ve loved the grinch way more than what we got with FP1. But alas, life ain’t perfect, and if Geno’s actually in, it won’t really matter that much
Well in that case what in the hell were they thinking putting Terry in the game.... Couldn't even see that so called 'net of appeal' with a 100x magnified telescope. I'd say Byleth and Corrin also but they get enough hate as it is (rightfully so). Sakurai does shoot big sometimes but not nearly often enough. Dude is scared of working with Americans because of a language barrier.... Seriously...
Terry is pretty well known in Latin America and other countries as well as those who are in the FGC. So he does reach a different audience and his inclusion would get them interested in Smash
Terry is pretty well known in Latin America and other countries as well as those who are in the FGC. So he does reach a different audience and his inclusion would get them interested in Smash
Sorry I couldn't see anywhere that he was recognized. The day of his reveal any chat you'd look at was filled with the word """WHOOO??!!!!""" I'm sure every character is in there own way...but Banjo vs Terry...nope not even close. I fully accept the deep down reason why Terry was added. SNK was an inspiration for Sakurai to make Smash in the first place.. Yay.. Glad its over and we're on to the next one. Terry was a huge reveal compared to Byleth though and maybe that was the point lol.
Sorry I couldn't see anywhere that he was recognized. The day of his reveal any chat you'd look at was filled with the word """WHOOO??!!!!""" I'm sure every character is in there own way...but Banjo vs Terry...nope not even close.
You could check anyone who was in the FGC and they instantly recognized him. As I said too, countries like Latin America are pretty aware of who he is. He isn't well known in the Smash community or amoung younger demographics, but that's not the only demographic that exists. He is recognized in other groups
Decided to look into the Switch online maintenance history going back to Ultimate's announcement in March 2018. Basically what I found is that the maintenance that has gone on the last two weeks and this upcoming Monday is practically identical to what happens before General Directs.
You could check anyone who was in the FGC and they instantly recognized him. As I said too, countries like Latin America are pretty aware of who he is. He isn't well known in the Smash community or amoung younger demographics, but that's not the only demographic that exists. He is recognized in other groups
I can understand that. Just seeing how happy people got for Banjo made me realize the way they lined up the reveals was aweful. Joker was def a high point then it went a little lower with Hero. Banjo was the peak and from there it went straight down for the majority of Smash fans I'm sure. Don't even have to question it. It shows. I get what you are saying. Makes sense.
Imo, Banjo should've been last. I'd love to talk to whoever planned the release schedule. It'd have to be in person though. I just want to ask them "Wtf were you thinking?", and see how they respond to a question that I'm sure they wouldn't give two ****s about. That release schedule salted players like they were slugs after Banjo. Was def yikes. Not to mention the other huge issue with ONLINE being a cluster **** of consistent lag from release all the way to the present.
Never hurts to be more skeptical of things you want. If it happens and you don't expect it, it's a pleasant surprise. If it doesn't happen and you don't expect it, you're not as disappointed.
View attachment 280590
All I can think about is how incredible it would have been for Nintendo to respond to the hype around the Grinch Leak by adding the rest of them to Fighter Pass 2. You could even keep Min Min—Geno, Isaac, Chorus Kids, Mach Rider, and Shadow as 7 through 11.
... you know, bringing up the Grinch Leak after all this time got me thinking... this prediction might be bolder than an actual boulder, but considering the following factors...
Nintendo getting their knickers in a twist shortly before November 1st, because they knew that the infamous Ken-cineroar duo wouldn't so much as hold a candle to the Grinch Gang.
As Fatmanonice
once said, I believe... Nintendo getting blindsided by the negative reaction to Isaac's Assist Trophy returning
Nintendo being surprised at the massive positive reception to Banjo being in Fighters Pass 1.
... while I don't think the entire Grinch Gang will be reunited, considering the above, I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up getting one or two more Grinch Leak characters aside from Banjo and Geno.
Sorry I couldn't see anywhere that he was recognized. The day of his reveal any chat you'd look at was filled with the word """WHOOO??!!!!""" I'm sure every character is in there own way...but Banjo vs Terry...nope not even close. I fully accept the deep down reason why Terry was added. SNK was an inspiration for Sakurai to make Smash in the first place.. Yay.. Glad its over and we're on to the next one. Terry was a huge reveal compared to Byleth though and maybe that was the point lol.
Never thought I'd have to post these videos again... but oh well. If you think the general reaction to Terry was just "Literally Who?" and nothing else, then you haven't been looking hard enough (gonna spoiler some of these because of language)...
... you know, bringing up the Grinch Leak after all this time got me thinking... this prediction might be bolder than an actual boulder, but considering the following factors...
Nintendo getting their knickers in a twist shortly before November 1st, because they knew that the infamous Ken-cineroar duo wouldn't so much as hold a candle to the Grinch Gang.
As Fatmanonice
once said, I believe... Nintendo getting blindsided by the negative reaction to Isaac's Assist Trophy returning
Nintendo being surprised at the massive positive reception to Banjo being in Fighters Pass 1.
... while I don't think the entire Grinch Gang will be reunited, considering the above, I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up getting one or two more Grinch Leak characters aside from Banjo and Geno.
Never thought I'd have to post these videos again... but oh well. If you think the general reaction to Terry was just "Literally Who?" and nothing else, then you haven't been looking hard enough (gonna spoiler some of these because of language)...
I can understand that. Just seeing how happy people got for Banjo made me realize the way they lined up the reveals was aweful. Joker was def a high point then it went a little lower with Hero. Banjo was the peak and from there it went straight down for the majority of Smash fans I'm sure. Don't even have to question it. It shows. I get what you are saying. Makes sense.
Imo, Banjo should've been last. I'd love to talk to whoever planned the release schedule. Has to be in person. I just want to ask them "Wtf were you thinking?", and see how they respond.
Banjo fit well as an E3 reveal though. I think it was a good call to put him there. The order matters, but I also think the way they are showed off is equally important. Plus I think a lot of Banjo fans preferred him releasing sooner than later. It definitely was disappointing though they ended off on a controversial character but for marketing purposes, it kinda made sense to front load the pass with huge picks so people would be more inclined to buy the pass as a whole
Hopefully though, seeing how these will be the last DLC characters for a while (probably close to a decade), they've set up the order to reflect the finality of it all
Banjo fit well as an E3 reveal though. I think it was a good call to put him there. The order matters, but I also think the way they are showed off is equally important. Plus I think a lot of Banjo fans preferred him releasing sooner than later. It definitely was disappointing though they ended off on a controversial character but for marketing purposes, it kinda made sense to front load the pass with huge picks so people would be more inclined to buy the pass as a whole
Hopefully though, seeing how these will be the last DLC characters for a while (probably close to a decade), they've set up the order to reflect the finality of it all
I certainly hope they did rethink their strategy with FP2. And so far it feels like it. Min min being early is def a good thing. Let's pray they are starting modestly... It seems a lot smarter with this type of thing to end with a shocker instead of a complete and total dud. Sakurai said that barely anyone, even at Nintendo, knew about Byleth coming...and probably because the ones working on him couldn't have CARED less about leaking that waste of a roster slot. Monster Hunter move set wasted. Damn.. Still stings.
I certainly hope they did rethink their strategy with FP2. And so far it feels like it. Min min being early is def a good thing. Let's pray they are starting modestly... It seems a lot smarter with this type of thing to end with a shocker instead of a complete and total dud. Sakurai said that barely anyone, even at Nintendo, knew about Byleth coming...and probably because the ones working on him couldn't have CARED less about leaking that waste of a roster slot. Monster Hunter move set wasted. Damn.. Still stings.
I can't tell 100% yet if Min Min is meant to start off a big Fighters Pass, and they're getting the least exciting character out of the way, or if they're setting things up for the rest of the pass to be mellow with a few exceptions like Geno or Crash. I'm leaning to and hoping it's the former
To be honest, Starting off with Min-Min was not the best way. It seems companies want people to buy the pass as soon as possible. Min-Min doesn't do that, though there was speculation Min-Min was supposed to start with someone else, so i guess we have to see who FP7 is
I do expect the Last character to be controversial, though maybe more in the vain of Bayonetta than someone like Byleth. I don't think they will save a character like Master Chief, Crash, or Dante for the last spot, as those are characters that will get people to rush to get the Fighter Pass
Terry is definitely niche, and I see no way to justify him in any other way. He is an icon, absolutely. But in the grand scheme of things, he is pretty dang niche outside a certain crowd (FGC).
But the thing is; Sakurai has already stated he's fine with advertising "niche" JP IPs, multiple times through Smash. He doesn't really care if a series is SUPER POPULAR worldwide, and if he did we would have gotten something like Resident Evil as a Fighter rather than Fatal Fury, but again he doesn't really care.
Now if that's a problem with him is not really up to me to decide. That's just the way he rolls. BUT replacing Sakurai wouldn't really change anything. Nintendo is already a super conservative company in terms of risks, and the only way certain series/characters are even on the table is because they trust Sakurai a ton. I think it's pretty likely that if Sakurai wasn't the person in charge then we'd get far less 3rd party characters/fan picks in the long run. It'd probably all be characters/series that Nintendo is currently interested in.
... you know, bringing up the Grinch Leak after all this time got me thinking... this prediction might be bolder than an actual boulder, but considering the following factors...
Nintendo getting their knickers in a twist shortly before November 1st, because they knew that the infamous Ken-cineroar duo wouldn't so much as hold a candle to the Grinch Gang.
As Fatmanonice
once said, I believe... Nintendo getting blindsided by the negative reaction to Isaac's Assist Trophy returning
Nintendo being surprised at the massive positive reception to Banjo being in Fighters Pass 1.
... while I don't think the entire Grinch Gang will be reunited, considering the above, I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up getting one or two more Grinch Leak characters aside from Banjo and Geno.
Never thought I'd have to post these videos again... but oh well. If you think the general reaction to Terry was just "Literally Who?" and nothing else, then you haven't been looking hard enough (gonna spoiler some of these because of language)...
TBF, I don't really think it's fair to take something like the Nintendo NY reaction super seriously because I'm willing to bet a lot of people already braced themselves for Terry via leaks. Like if Byleth was leaked a week or 2 before the presentation, the blow-back wouldn't nearly have been as bad (though it would definitely not be received well still).
But I do think the others are absolutely valid.
Which again goes to show the big difference between "popular" characters in Japan and in North America. Characters like Terry have a decent amount of visibility there (and in Latin America) partly due to their huge legacy. But around here they aren't seen as "big/iconic" characters as much. Something like Doom Guy/Master Chief/Crash would have a huge reaction in the West, but not so much in Japan (to varying degrees of course) because while they're still absolutely huge in the West, but in Japan they have dropped off in popularity (Crash is the most popular among those 3, but even then he's fell hard from his golden days over there). Likewise characters like Arle/Adol Christin/Yuri Lowell would have a huge reaction in Japan compared to the West because most of their legacy is in that region, but they aren't big out here (still, to varying degrees).
Combine this with characters that are popular within specific fanbases, outside of Smash; and you get even more "tougher" choices. Terry is big in the FGC but in the Smash Community he's not super big as a request. Geno is big in the Smash community, but, let's be honest he's nonexistent outside of here. In our heads, if people were given the choice between Geno and Terry, 90% of the people here would choose Geno. But in Sakurai/Nintendo's minds there's also other factors at play rather than just "fan-demand". Marketability, promotions, costs, company relations, future potential, legacy, popularity outside of Smash, all also play a an important role in terms of what they choose.
In the end, Nintendo's running a business (as godawful their marketing is currently), we aren't going to get a pass filled with 6 MEGA hitters (especially MEGA HITTERS that are only big in America). We're far more likely to get 1-2 "big" characters, 1-2 "niche" characters, and "1-2" promotional characters. These characters would also probably be split between Eastern/Western tastes (although I still expect most of the characters to originate from Japan still).
So again, just expect FP 1 2.0. Rather than HOLY COW we got Geno, Sora, Master Chief, Dante, Min Min, and Crash all in the same pass.
I don't dislike Terry or anything but it's simply a fact that he isn't a major character in any capacity, that's why Sakurai went out of his way to say that the primary reason he adds fighters isn't just icon status, but how fun they are. If Terry wasn't in the game nobody would be like "Where's Terry?". Sure he has his fans, but there's a reason he wasn't discussed much before his reveal.
Edit: Keep in mind I'd also say Geno is a very niche character in the grand scheme of things too, just to clarify I'm not being a hypocrite.
Geno and Isaac were always the two "big guns" of the Grinch leak for me. Shadow was an awesome bonus. But I don't think Isaac's in the running until a certain lanky loser is in
To all of you saying that Terry is a literal who or that he is niche, you are proving your lack of gaming diversity (the good kind) and that you have narrow tastes.
This is a perfect example. Saying 'Of course Max recognized Terry because he plays fighting games' isn't an excuse.
Max loves Capcom games in general as well as FPS and many MANY others. This of course means he would recognize many things, like when he recognized FF7 music immediately for Cloud's reveal and the Panzer Dragoon music from the Direct it was announced.
Terry Bogard, the face of SNK who was competing with Capcom and were rivals back in the day is not niche just because he wasn't within your speculation circle. The FGC is not niche because it is huge and holds people who have many interests but all happen to love fighting games.
That would be like me saying Sora is niche because I've never played a Square game, much less Kingdom Hearts. Wrong answer.
That would be like me saying Game of Thrones is niche just because I never got into it. Wrong again.
What you are doing is using your bias and subjective views and applying it as if it was fact. Just because all you play is Smash or Nintendo first party or games on a Nintendo console doesn't mean things don't exist outside of it. If anything, it means Smash fans don't branch out often into other games, which we've seen time and again to be true.
I can't tell 100% yet if Min Min is meant to start off a big Fighters Pass, and they're getting the least exciting character out of the way, or if they're setting things up for the rest of the pass to be mellow with a few exceptions like Geno or Crash. I'm leaning to and hoping it's the former
I hate doing this but with Nintendo, ALWAYS THINK THE LATTER. I have very low expectations.
Also, It´s pretty obvious that the first pass was thought with the current japanese tastes in mind. First and last characters were ,very current anime.
A lot of the people who got very hyped for Joker were also hyped for byleth
Hell, Hero has old anime design flavor. Terry is the one who is most gaming out of them all, and still has anime design imprinted on him.
There´s subtleties to each era though.
Only Banjo is the only western and cartoony character.
About the next character, I really feel that Pokemon is a possibility but I wonder if Nintendo held on the announcement for the fear of backlash. So if it´s a pokemon, they might announce two characters so that it´s easy to swallow. So a pokemon and a fan favorite. Either Crash or Geno.
Look, as someone who isn't really a major SNK-nut or anything, and as an early-2000's zoomer baby, the entire Terry reveal and the fact people are STILL complaining about him is both ridiculous and eye-opening. I wasn't ecstatic or anything when the leak occurred last year for an SNK character, it was more of a "Oh, SNK? Never really thought about that, guess it makes sense. Probably Terry, well it's still cool. There are ALOT worse choices out there." Of course I came around more after the god-tier trailer and realizing just how much content/representation he was actually bringing with him, but that's not the point.
I am still absolutely flabbergasted how people didn't know who Terry Bogard was, that people did (and apparently STILL) refer to him as a "literally who". Like, how? I've never touched any SNK stuff outside of Metal Slug and I only really have a surface level interest in fighting games regardless. But I still know who he is, and what SNK represents, like, how do you not? They have a massive legacy, MULTIPLE CONSOLES, how do you not know who they are? But apparently the Nintendo fanbase really DOES have an exposure problem.
I get it, Terry wasn't popular in the smash speculation scene, hell I'd argue none of the Pass 1 characters sans Banjo were at all. That doesn't immediately make him a bad choice. And I'm saying this as someone who holds the opinion that Nintendo could EASILY make a Pass that could focus on heavily requested characters and satisfy the vast majority of the fanbase while still comprising a large variety of franchises and companies. (Atleast better than Pass 1 did, 3 JRPG characters and only 1 character that was heavily requested, hell even somewhat popular in the fanbase.)
To all of you saying that Terry is a literal who or that he is niche, you are proving your lack of gaming diversity (the good kind) and that you have narrow tastes.
This is a perfect example. Saying 'Of course Max recognized Terry because he plays fighting games' isn't an excuse.
Max loves Capcom games in general as well as FPS and many MANY others. This of course means he would recognize many things, like when he recognized FF7 music immediately for Cloud's reveal and the Panzer Dragoon music from the Direct it was announced.
Terry Bogard, the face of SNK who was competing with Capcom and were rivals back in the day is not niche just because he wasn't within your speculation circle. The FGC is not niche because it is huge and holds people who have many interests but all happen to love fighting games.
That would be like me saying Sora is niche because I've never played a Square game, much less Kingdom Hearts. Wrong answer.
That would be like me saying Game of Thrones is niche just because I never got into it. Wrong again.
What you are doing is using your bias and subjective views and applying it as if it was fact. Just because all you play is Smash or Nintendo first party or games on a Nintendo console doesn't mean things don't exist outside of it. If anything, it means Smash fans don't branch out often into other games, which we've seen time and again to be true.
In the end, Nintendo's running a business (as godawful their marketing is currently), we aren't going to get a pass filled with 6 MEGA hitters (especially MEGA HITTERS that are only big in America). We're far more likely to get 1-2 "big" characters, 1-2 "niche" characters, and "1-2" promotional characters. These characters would also probably be split between Eastern/Western tastes (although I still expect most of the characters to originate from Japan still).
So again, just expect FP 1 2.0. Rather than HOLY COW we got Geno, Sora, Master Chief, Dante, Min Min, and Crash all in the same pass.
That's why I have been taking a lot of this with a grain of salt. As much as I really want Geno and honestly as awesome as that pass from earlier sounded, I want to not really go full on believing that Geno is a guarantee. Rumors are called rumors for a reason after all.
I really am rooting for Fatmanonice theory crafting to be right not because I think he is right, but his stuff sounds like a fever dream and objectively a best case scenario. I mean his fighter pass sounds incredible but I'm not 100% convinced yet. Either way, this is a fun ride.
If I am being real though, I will trade for an underwhelming FP2 if we could at least guarantee Geno. That's really all I want at this point.
Geno, Isaac, Bomberman, and Krystal are the last big Brawl requests to be exact. While the latter two ain't as popular anymore, they were just as popular as the likes of Mega Man and Ridley during Brawl.
Arguing that Terry is a “literal who” in the Geno thread of all places seems like a recipe for disaster. I can not tell you how many times I’ve seen Geno called the exact same thing, and it always elicits an audible groan from me.
Let’s not become what we swore to destroy, ya feel me?
Arguing that Terry is a “literal who” in the Geno thread of all places seems like a recipe for disaster. I can not tell you how many times I’ve seen Geno called the exact same thing, and it always elicits an audible groan from me.
Let’s not become what we swore to destroy, ya feel me?
Um, guys... how could we ever call Terry Bogard a literal who? The dude is the mascot of SNK. SNK has a good following in the FGC. SNK even crossed over with Capcom. It seems pretty hypocritical to call anybody a who, when Geno fits the same category... Geno is a hardcore Smash pick and familiar to fans who played the SNES.
Um, guys... how could we ever call Terry Bogard a literal who? The dude is the mascot of SNK. SNK has a good following in the FGC. SNK even crosses over with Capcom. It seems pretty hypocritical to call anybody a who, when Geno fits the same category... Geno is a hardcore, Smash pick and familiar to fans who played the SNES.
