Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[FCZHornet]

I don’t believe any cool character has any chance as DLC, but that’s mostly borne of my dissatisfaction with Ultimate. I guess I might be biased in my own right.

In that case, turn that frown upside down my guy. This game is gonna be bananas.

Nintendo will do great with DLC regardless if we get puppetman. Their switch track record has been superb.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The most likely scenario is actually ‘Oh boy, Sora’s in the game? I love Sora! Gotta buy the DLC!’

The next likely scenario is ‘Oh boy, Sora’s in this game? I wasn’t so sure about this Smash thing, but now I gotta buy it!’

Then there’s also ‘Oh, who’s this Sora person? Ah, the guy from Kingdom Hearts 3, I guess I’ll give him a go’

And maybe even ‘Oh boy, Kingdom Hearts 3, so hyped. What’s this? Sora in Smash??? Ah man, I guess I should buy a Switch’

I don't know what to say. You literally created a hierarchy of probability with someone outright buying a Switch because of Sora in Smash as the least likely scenario. That's entirely my point. Sora's benefits as a third party character that has to be liscensed and negotiated with an entirely new entity of ownership to the Smash roster end at Smash Ultimate. You're right, the absolutely best case scenario is that it spurs someone to drop 500+ dollars but that's a hell of an assumption, not likely to be the case for a whole lot of people, and still, ultimately, a one time investment for Nintendo compared to literally every other third party addition. What on Earth would spur Nintendo to make that kind of decision, to put Sora on a higher pedestal than every third party character before him? There's no business sense or logic in it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't know what to say. You literally created a hierarchy of probability with someone outright buying a Switch because of Sora in Smash as the least likely scenario. That's entirely my point. Sora's benefits as a third party character that has to be liscensed and negotiated with an entirely new entity of ownership to the Smash roster end at Smash Ultimate. You're right, the absolutely best case scenario is that it spurs someone to drop 500+ dollars but that's a hell of an assumption, not likely to be the case for a whole lot of people, and still, ultimately, a one time investment for Nintendo compared to literally every other third party addition. What on Earth would spur Nintendo to make that kind of decision, to put Sora on a higher pedestal than every third party character before him? There's no business sense or logic in it.

The logic would be that if it gets at least one person to buy a Switch, then it’s already better than Geno because all of Geno’s fans own Switches.

 

[DaxMasterix]

I don't know what to say. You literally created a hierarchy of probability with someone outright buying a Switch because of Sora in Smash as the least likely scenario. That's entirely my point. Sora's benefits as a third party character that has to be liscensed and negotiated with an entirely new entity of ownership to the Smash roster end at Smash Ultimate. You're right, the absolutely best case scenario is that it spurs someone to drop 500+ dollars but that's a hell of an assumption, not likely to be the case for a whole lot of people, and still, ultimately, a one time investment for Nintendo compared to literally every other third party addition. What on Earth would spur Nintendo to make that kind of decision, to put Sora on a higher pedestal than every third party character before him? There's no business sense or logic in it.

My friend is a huge Sora Fan, he said he won't buy a Switch because I own one already, so he can play it like, a few times and then go back and play KH3. lmao

 

[FCZHornet]

I don't know what to say. You literally created a hierarchy of probability with someone outright buying a Switch because of Sora in Smash as the least likely scenario. That's entirely my point. Sora's benefits as a third party character that has to be liscensed and negotiated with an entirely new entity of ownership to the Smash roster end at Smash Ultimate. You're right, the absolutely best case scenario is that it spurs someone to drop 500+ dollars but that's a hell of an assumption, not likely to be the case for a whole lot of people, and still, ultimately, a one time investment for Nintendo compared to literally every other third party addition. What on Earth would spur Nintendo to make that kind of decision, to put Sora on a higher pedestal than every third party character before him? There's no business sense or logic in it.

Since we truly know nothing about what it takes financially to get a character into Smash that belongs to another company, we can’t infer whether it’s a good business decision or not outside of it being common sense to include a very popular character from a competing system in order to build demand for your own. Nintendo is out to sell copies of Smash at the end of the day.

Still, for all the reasons you have stated, it’s probably not gonna happen.

 

[Deleted member]

The logic would be that if it gets at least one person to buy a Switch, then it’s already better than Geno because all of Geno’s fans own Switches.

The people who want Sora are mostly Playstation fans, so they wouldn't want to by a $300 Switch and the $60 game just to play as Sora. If Geno is added, then people who know him would want to buy the SNES Classic, meaning more money for Nintendo. Imagine the hassle to get the rights to Sora in Smash. Most of the money from Sora goes to Disney, and there are no plans of KH3 coming to the Switch, meaning more advertising for Disney, a competitor of Nintendo, because of buying a $300 or $400 PS4 and KH3 whenever it comes out. More money and advertising for a competitor, Disney, yay!

 

[FCZHornet]

The people who want Sora are mostly Playstation fans, so they wouldn't want to by a $300 Switch and the $60 game just to play as Sora. If Geno is added, then people who know him would want to but the SNES Classic, meaning more money for Nintendo. Imagine the hassle to get the rights to Sora in Smash. Most of the money from Sora goes to Disney, and there are no plans of KH3 coming to the Switch, meaning more advertising for Disney, a competitor of Nintendo, because of buying a $300 or $400 PS4 and KH3 whenever it comes out. More money and advertising for a competitor, Disney, yay!

Would you buy a switch and smash just for Geno? I sure would.

 

[Datboigeno]

I don’t think you guys are arguing over the same point. One group of people is saying “Sora would be a big deal overall,” one group is saying “based on the desire of smash players, Sora would not be a big deal,” and a third group is saying “Sora isn’t as likely as Geno for x, y, z.”

It’s kinda funny to see discussion get heated when I don’t think anyone is arguing over the same thing.

I think it's more that different people are arguing different points at different points in time. It seems like most of the people have gone over all 3 arguments. The overall consensus to me seems to be that: "Sure, Sora would be a big deal overall. But when you look at polls and other factors he wouldn't be as big of a get for many people who are fans of the series as Geno. And Geno seems more likely than Sora at this point because of various things like the Nintendo artist tweet, the Nintendo SMRPG tweet, PolarPanda's source saying Geno is DLC, and Jon from Gamexplain who most people suspect has inside information on Nintendo stuff continuing to bring up Geno as a DLC possibility. Sora has a deleted tweet from a director." The reason why these different points are brought up at different times is because people keep bringing up reasons as to why he's not as likely or popular or whatever. Unless I'm misreading this thread as a whole this seems to be the overall point of many of the people who are pro-Geno at this point.

I think we often forget that people posting on smashboards or other smash centric communities are the vast minority of consumers. I don’t need to dig up sales data on Kingdom Hearts to say it’s a massively popular franchise. Including its main character would turn heads.

I don’t mean for this to be a “I think Sora is better then Geno” thing at all, but anyone saying Sora wouldn’t drive incredible excitement or sales is wishful thinking.

Tbh this kind of mindset of being dismissive of the "smash hardcore fanbase" seems to be ignoring a lot of objective data we actually have. You say that the fanbase and its desires are really niche and a small subset of the overall fanbase. Yet King K. Rool was the most requested character on the ballot poll voted on by our ""minority"" of a community. And you compare the data for things like views on Youtube for his introduction trailer to Cloud's and you see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-gfC1upmoA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rxU5MEm0J4
vs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wah7AGkkzl4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc3CY31kMJ4
King K. Rool the character a lot of people during Smash 4 were writing off as "not relevant" due to not appearing in a game in almost a decade ended up being a more popular inclusion (if we take views as a metric of mainstream "popularity") than Cloud the third party character from a massively popular franchise (Final Fantasy). I think you can't really write off votes for characters like K. Rool or Geno in ballots and how highly they end up on said bracket as just being the wishes of the "hardcore" community that don't reflect the rest of consumers. Because all the people voting on polls and participating on the Smash subreddit? They're still a big chunk of consumers. And when you get into something like the ballot where literal millions of people are voting you shouldn't really be brushing it off as a "vast minority" if you're having a genuine discussion regarding what consumers want.

 

[Deleted member]

Would you buy a switch and smash just for Geno? I sure would.

It's cause Geno fans are Nintendo fans, so they would already own a Switch, Sora fans are Sony fans, so they want Sora for Smash, but they would spend $360 on Sora just to play as him, which they most likely wouldn't

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Speculating about characters is fun, but...

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what fan ballots say or who has what chances. Nintendo can choose whoever the hell they want for DLC, even if a character (like Geno) is a few steps away from being confirmed.

I'm saying this because it seems like we're getting to a point where people are so attached to their favorite characters that bringing up the prospect of them not getting in leads to insulting, wisecracks, and grasping at straws to provide a counterargument. I'm not saying it's specifically here, just something I noticed around the Smash community as a whole. Some people need to chill out with all of this. It's great to show your passion and support for a character, but let's not be jerks to each other. I'll say it one more time, Nintendo can choose ANYONE they want regardless of what a character's chances are. This post isn't gonna do anything obviously, so I guess I'll just have to sit back and watch everyone tear each other's throats out until all DLC has been announced.

That is partly why I don't support just one character. One can't get in? No biggie, I'll move on to the next.

Also, I'll say it's a good time to pull this out again:

 

[FCZHornet]

I think it's more that different people are arguing different points at different points in time. It seems like most of the people have gone over all 3 arguments. The overall consensus to me seems to be that: "Sure, Sora would be a big deal overall. But when you look at polls and other factors he wouldn't be as big of a get for many people who are fans of the series as Geno. And Geno seems more likely than Sora at this point because of various things like the Nintendo artist tweet, the Nintendo SMRPG tweet, PolarPanda's source saying Geno is DLC, and Jon from Gamexplain who most people suspect has inside information on Nintendo stuff continuing to bring up Geno as a DLC possibility. Sora has a deleted tweet from a director." The reason why these different points are brought up at different times is because people keep bringing up reasons as to why he's not as likely or popular or whatever. Unless I'm misreading this thread as a whole this seems to be the overall point of many of the people who are pro-Geno at this point.




Tbh this kind of mindset of being dismissive of the "smash hardcore fanbase" seems to be ignoring a lot of objective data we actually have. You say that the fanbase and its desires are really niche and a small subset of the overall fanbase. Yet King K. Rool was the most requested character on the ballot poll voted on by our ""minority"" of a community. And you compare the data for things like views on Youtube for his introduction trailer to Cloud's and you see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-gfC1upmoA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rxU5MEm0J4
vs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wah7AGkkzl4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc3CY31kMJ4
King K. Rool the character a lot of people during Smash 4 were writing off as "not relevant" due to not appearing in a game in almost a decade ended up being a more popular inclusion (if we take views as a metric of mainstream "popularity") than Cloud the third party character from a massively popular franchise (Final Fantasy). I think you can't really write off votes for characters like K. Rool or Geno in ballots and how highly they end up on said bracket as just being the wishes of the "hardcore" community that don't reflect the rest of consumers. Because all the people voting on polls and participating on the Smash subreddit? They're still a big chunk of consumers. And when you get into something like the ballot where literal millions of people are voting you shouldn't really be brushing it off as a "vast minority" if you're having a genuine discussion regarding what consumers want.

That’s a very good point - this time around especially, the hardcore crowd is extremely validated, which I think increases Geno’s odds considerably for the game even outside of all the other data to support his inclusion that we have. The point I was making about the community being niche was to counter a point specifically about not being heavily featured on a smash poll being indicative of something not being popular in general.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The logic would be that if it gets at least one person to buy a Switch, then it’s already better than Geno because all of Geno’s fans own Switches.

Let's put it this way, it's much easier to convince a person to drop $8 on a virtual console game or even $80 for the SNES Classic for more Geno than drop about $400 for a Switch, Smash Ultimate, plus DLC for Sora. Following your logic, if someone's that big of a fan of Sora, they probably already own a PS3 or PS4 for the games so they could be perfectly content where they are but with significantly more and better Kingdom Hearts content. They're already pretty deep in their competitors' pocket and, without a steady stream of KH content, they won't be likely to divert their attention. It'd be like a one night stand where someone gets ghosted. It's catch and release.

All in all, someone would have to be a really, really big fan of Sora to shell out that kind of money for just him. "Geno fans are already Nintendo fans" which why they are reliable clientele for Nintendo and likely to buy Mario games and rereleases of Super Mario RPG. Mario's definitely not leaving Nintendo and its future as a megaton IP is pretty clear. Kingdom Hearts, not so much. No immediate plans for Nintendo and there's also the possible prospect that Kingdom Hearts will flat out end after III, creating multiple dead end scenarios. Either way, it ends up becoming a one time investment while every other third party aside from Snake (arguably a dead franchise depending on who you ask) making continued contributions to Nintendo since their addition.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's put it this way, it's much easier to convince a person to drop $8 on a virtual console game or even $80 for the SNES Classic for more Geno than drop about $400 for a Switch, Smash Ultimate, plus DLC for Sora. Following your logic, if someone's that big of a fan of Sora, they probably already own a PS3 or PS4 for the games so they could be perfectly content where they are but with significantly more and better Kingdom Hearts content. They're already pretty deep in their competitors' pocket and, without a steady stream of KH content, they won't be likely to divert their attention. It'd be like a one night stand where someone gets ghosted. It's catch and release.

All in all, someone would have to be a really, really big fan of Sora to shell out that kind of money for just him. "Geno fans are already Nintendo fans" which why they are reliable clientele for Nintendo and likely to buy Mario games and rereleases of Super Mario RPG. Mario's definitely not leaving Nintendo and its future as a megaton IP is pretty clear. Kingdom Hearts, not so much. No immediate plans for Nintendo and there's also the possible prospect that Kingdom Hearts will flat out end after III, creating multiple dead end scenarios. Either way, it ends up becoming a one time investment while every other third party aside from Snake (arguably a dead franchise depending on who you ask) making continued contributions to Nintendo since their addition.

And to add to this, Snake was added in Smash Brawl because Sakurai and Kojima were buds and he wasn't paid DLC, so it was an exception for him

 

[StormC]

Tbh this kind of mindset of being dismissive of the "smash hardcore fanbase" seems to be ignoring a lot of objective data we actually have. You say that the fanbase and its desires are really niche and a small subset of the overall fanbase. Yet King K. Rool was the most requested character on the ballot poll voted on by our ""minority"" of a community. And you compare the data for things like views on Youtube for his introduction trailer to Cloud's and you see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-gfC1upmoA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rxU5MEm0J4
vs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wah7AGkkzl4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc3CY31kMJ4
King K. Rool the character a lot of people during Smash 4 were writing off as "not relevant" due to not appearing in a game in almost a decade ended up being a more popular inclusion (if we take views as a metric of mainstream "popularity") than Cloud the third party character from a massively popular franchise (Final Fantasy). I think you can't really write off votes for characters like K. Rool or Geno in ballots and how highly they end up on said bracket as just being the wishes of the "hardcore" community that don't reflect the rest of consumers. Because all the people voting on polls and participating on the Smash subreddit? They're still a big chunk of consumers. And when you get into something like the ballot where literal millions of people are voting you shouldn't really be brushing it off as a "vast minority" if you're having a genuine discussion regarding what consumers want.

You can't really compare the stats of DLC for one game three years ago to the announcement for a base game character this year. It's way different scenarios. But I do say this as a huge fan of both Cloud and K. Rool, both were big news, but Cloud took the internet by storm in a way most Smash announcements just don't. Part of that was probably the sheer surprise factor (K. Rool had been highly anticipated with Ridley's confirmation), but I wager if Cloud was announced for Ultimate alongside Ridley and K. Rool, things would look very different. Also, that doesn't really paint the whole picture because the official Smash YouTube channel uploaded the Cloud trailer a few days late, so most of the views were on mirrors by then.

That said, I dunno if K. Rool and Geno are comparable. At least as far as the actual ballot is comparable, K. Rool regularly ranked in top 5 in polls from that era, while that wasn't necessarily the case with Geno. Perhaps Nintendo could evaluate the character's recent popularity in light of the costume (which has definitely put extra attention on Geno). Again, it's not just Nintendo, but Square that has to navigate this whole deal. Who's going to agree to what? I can't say for certain, but I think the merits of other characters have been downplayed in this thread quite a bit. Understandably so, being the Geno thread, but whatever the Square character is... it's going to be very interesting, because I feel all of them have some sort of barrier for entry.

 

[FCZHornet]

It's cause Geno fans are Nintendo fans, so they would already own a Switch, Sora fans are Sony fans, so they want Sora for Smash, but they would spend $360 on Sora just to play as him, which they most likely wouldn't

That certainly makes sense, but gotta remember the whole point of cross-promotion is to promote both products, which makes the dollar count vs buyer incentive a lot harder to determine. Nintendo gets a PlayStation guy in their game to attract PlayStation buyers, PlayStation gets their guy in the hands of Nintendo players in order to hopefully sell some PlayStations. Everyone wins.

EDIT: I know those owners aren’t entirely correct, just serving as an example.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The people who want Sora are mostly Playstation fans, so they wouldn't want to by a $300 Switch and the $60 game just to play as Sora. If Geno is added, then people who know him would want to buy the SNES Classic, meaning more money for Nintendo. Imagine the hassle to get the rights to Sora in Smash. Most of the money from Sora goes to Disney, and there are no plans of KH3 coming to the Switch, meaning more advertising for Disney, a competitor of Nintendo, because of buying a $300 or $400 PS4 and KH3 whenever it comes out. More money and advertising for a competitor, Disney, yay!

That logic is the same kind of logic that stated that Cloud would never be in Smash. Final Fantasy fans are mostly PlayStation fans, thus it doesn’t make sense to add him, yet here we are.

Also, I don’t know why the thought that people can only buy one console? The Switch released mid-generation, with worse specs but the added bonus of portability and Nintendo exclusives. I don’t think it’s a huge leap in logic to assume it’s a PlayStation 4-Switch combo for many people. (At least, I don’t know anyone who owns a Switch and doesn’t own a PS4)

The hassle to get Sora in Smash is severely overstated, considering Disney has actually said they’re all for letting Sora be in Smash. And Nintendo and Disney aren’t competitors, and they’re actually collaborating on a tv show.

 

[FCZHornet]

That logic is the same kind of logic that stated that Cloud would never be in Smash. Final Fantasy fans are mostly PlayStation fans, thus it doesn’t make sense to add him, yet here we are.

Also, I don’t know why the thought that people can only buy one console? The Switch released mid-generation, with worse specs but the added bonus of portability and Nintendo exclusives. I don’t think it’s a huge leap in logic to assume it’s a PlayStation 4-Switch combo for many people. (At least, I don’t know anyone who owns a Switch and doesn’t own a PS4)

The hassle to get Sora in Smash is severely overstated, considering Disney has actually said they’re all for letting Sora be in Smash. And Nintendo and Disney aren’t competitors, and they’re actually collaborating on a tv show.

I would need a source on Disney saying they would allow Sora in smash, I don’t recall that. There are a number of other reasons why it’s pretty unlikely we will see Sora but I’ll let one of the more enthusiastic posters here repost them.

 

[SSGuy]

That logic is the same kind of logic that stated that Cloud would never be in Smash. Final Fantasy fans are mostly PlayStation fans, thus it doesn’t make sense to add him, yet here we are.

Most decisions for Smash Bros do not make sense and therefore make everything exciting. However, the one thing that can be argued regarding Cloud is because he was DLC, I can guarantee you that he did not move Wii U sales. Sora would not do move systems either. Geno would not move systems. In this scenario, what Sora will do is move more advertising for sales on PS4, Xbox One and PC when everyone is reminded and excited over Kingdom Hearts 3, which by the way, was way past the concept stage for Smash Ultimate where most of these characters were decided and finalized.

Sora would seem more likely if he either had games for Nintendo platforms within the past 3 years or if Sakurai was at the helm of picking the DLC characters. Because of this, I would argue he has less priority in Nintendo's mind.

From a business perspective, Nintendo is either going to go for characters that fans will find exciting and have a way to help push future titles. Whether this includes Geno, we will have to wait and see. I can only guarantee that the most likely characters we can expect to see include Bandana Waddle Dee ("Guys, Kirby Star Allies is a thing and you should go buy it!") and Rayman ("Guys, Rayman Legends Definitive Edition is a thing and you should check that out and Mario + Rabbids that we worked on with our good friends at Ubisoft!") based on my assumption of all this.

 

[Sigran101]

Why are people getting upset at GoodGrief741 ? I wouldn't want to keep up with a thread that was just an echo chamber. He's stimulating conversation and bringing up viewpoints that we aren't getting otherwise. Plus he's being respectful about it. This is much better than if a Sora fan came in and regularly trashed Geno. He's not trolling, just trying to bring up other sides of the debate. And at the end of the day he's a Geno fan too.

 

[Deleted member]

You can't really compare the stats of DLC for one game three years ago to the announcement for a base game character this year. It's way different scenarios. But I do say this as a huge fan of both Cloud and K. Rool, both were big news, but Cloud took the internet by storm in a way most Smash announcements just don't. Part of that was probably the sheer surprise factor (K. Rool had been highly anticipated with Ridley's confirmation), but I wager if Cloud was announced for Ultimate alongside Ridley and K. Rool, things would look very different. Also, that doesn't really paint the whole picture because the official Smash YouTube channel uploaded the Cloud trailer a few days late, so most of the views were on mirrors by then.

That said, I dunno if K. Rool and Geno are comparable. At least as far as the actual ballot is comparable, K. Rool regularly ranked in top 5 in polls from that era, while that wasn't necessarily the case with Geno. Perhaps Nintendo could evaluate the character's recent popularity in light of the costume (which has definitely put extra attention on Geno). Again, it's not just Nintendo, but Square that has to navigate this whole deal. Who's going to agree to what? I can't say for certain, but I think the merits of other characters have been downplayed in this thread quite a bit. Understandably so, being the Geno thread, but whatever the Square character is... it's going to be very interesting, because I feel all of them have some sort of barrier for entry.

Ridley, King K Rool, and Geno are referred to as "the unholy trinity" because those have been the 3 most requested characters for Smash since Melee

 

[EarlTamm]

Ridley, King K Rool, and Geno are referred to as "the unholy trinity" because those have been the 3 most requested characters for Smash since Melee

I thought it was the holy trinity.

 

[Deleted member]

That logic is the same kind of logic that stated that Cloud would never be in Smash. Final Fantasy fans are mostly PlayStation fans, thus it doesn’t make sense to add him, yet here we are.

Also, I don’t know why the thought that people can only buy one console? The Switch released mid-generation, with worse specs but the added bonus of portability and Nintendo exclusives. I don’t think it’s a huge leap in logic to assume it’s a PlayStation 4-Switch combo for many people. (At least, I don’t know anyone who owns a Switch and doesn’t own a PS4)

The hassle to get Sora in Smash is severely overstated, considering Disney has actually said they’re all for letting Sora be in Smash. And Nintendo and Disney aren’t competitors, and they’re actually collaborating on a tv show.

Yes, Nintendo and Disney's relationship have a good relationship, but they are competitors, the same way Nintendo and Microsoft are competitors but have a good relationship. At the time Cloud was in Smash, Nintendo and Square Enix were working on bringing Final Fantasy 7, 9, 10, and another FF game (can't remember the name) to the Switch. The director of Kingdom Hearts says he has no plans of bringing KH3 to the Switch, so if Sora comes to Smash, Nintendo would be advertising a competitor's console and a game for the competitor's console

 

[Luigifan18]

Yes, Nintendo and Disney's relationship have a good relationship, but they are competitors, the same way Nintendo and Microsoft are competitors but have a good relationship. At the time Cloud was in Smash, Nintendo and Square Enix were working on bringing Final Fantasy 7, 9, 10, and another FF game (can't remember the name) to the Switch. The director of Kingdom Hearts says he has no plans of bringing KH3 to the Switch, so if Sora comes to Smash, Nintendo would be advertising a competitor's console and a game for the competitor's console

Nintendo and Disney aren't competitors...

 

[Deleted member]

I thought it was the holy trinity.

Same, I think people call it that since it was impossible to get that trio in Smash. It will definitely be the holy trinity if Geno comes (which I have faith he will)

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo and Disney aren't competitors...

Universal and Nintendo support each other, and Universal and Disney are rivals. Also, Kingdom Hearts is a Disney and Square Enix game that is on a Sony platform, and Sony and Nintendo are competitors

 

[EarlTamm]

Nintendo and Disney aren't competitors...

Idk, the Detective Pikachu trailer completely overshadowed the Toy Story 4 teaser. It was so bad that Disney seemed to go against there plan and release a secound trailer the next day and eventually added "Reaction" to the title in an attempt to get more results. Still did not work.

 

[FE_SLaDe]

The logic would be that if it gets at least one person to buy a Switch, then it’s already better than Geno because all of Geno’s fans own Switches.

Not that I disagree entirely with this post (Sora as a DLC fighter with a KH3 announcement for Switch would indeed sell Switches), keep in mind that it's just as important to retain customers as it is to gain new ones. Just look at D.M.C. (failed Devil May Cry reboot) or even Pokemon Let's Go as examples when developers put gaining more consumers above keeping their loyal ones pleased with the product.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I would need a source on Disney saying they would allow Sora in smash, I don’t recall that. There are a number of other reasons why it’s pretty unlikely we will see Sora but I’ll let one of the more enthusiastic posters here repost them.

It was hard to track it down, cause I’d read it but didn’t remember when.

https://youtu.be/CV76QegRezE

tl;dr (It’s a really long and rambling video) Dude asked a Disney exec if Sora had any chance for Smash, and the guy said that if Nintendo was up for it Disney was as well.

Why are people getting upset at GoodGrief741 ? I wouldn't want to keep up with a thread that was just an echo chamber. He's stimulating conversation and bringing up viewpoints that we aren't getting otherwise. Plus he's being respectful about it. This is much better than if a Sora fan came in and regularly trashed Geno. He's not trolling, just trying to bring up other sides of the debate. And at the end of the day he's a Geno fan too.

Thanks. I’m glad someone finds at least a bit of value in what I’m saying.

Universal and Nintendo support each other, and Universal and Disney are rivals. Also, Kingdom Hearts is a Disney and Square Enix game that is on a Sony platform, and Sony and Nintendo are competitors

Kingdom Hearts is also on Nintendo platforms, and has been since the second game. (Also, we got the best games, at least imo, so point for Nintendo fans)

Not that I disagree entirely with this post (Sora as a DLC fighter with a KH3 announcement for Switch would indeed sell Switches), keep in mind that it's just as important to retain customers as it is to gain new ones. Just look at D.M.C. (failed Devil May Cry reboot) or even Pokemon Let's Go as examples when developers put gaining more consumers above keeping their loyal ones pleased with the product.

That I can agree with. Thank God DMCV is a thing.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I'd add to this that the Sora support thread literally has 12 pages. People talking about how well Sora would sell are banking on quite a lot of PlayStation owners also being smash players.

There's always that one dude I encounter that says, "Sora would be the obvious choice because he has demand and isn't irrelevant like Geno! It's obvious the sales will increase! Have you seen the sales to the big Kingdom Hearts games?"

These people do not understand that the big Kingdom Hearts games are directed towards PlayStation and Xbox gamers, not Nintendo gamers. The sales will not increase... yeah, maybe over a thousand, but that's not even enough because Smash Ultimate is aiming towards Nintendo's gamers, and no matter what, it will definitely be the Switch's most sold game. And like I said before, do you really think a PS/Xbox gamer would go through the trouble of buying a $300-400 Switch and Smash Ultimate for $60? No, absolutely not. I used to be an Xbox gamer and I KNOW I would never do this to play as a third-party character in a party game that's on another console. Sure there will be PS/Xbox fans that have Nintendo consoles already, but most of them moved away from Nintendo and I doubt many bought a Switch. A majority of Geno's fans are from Nintendo, at least 99% are, so having a fan-favorite character that's been wanted by the Smash/Nintendo community for two decades would generate MUCH more hype for Nintendo and Smash's fans.

Also, who wouldn't be hyped to see everyone's favorite doll after 22 years? Everyone would be so excited to see Geno make a return after his 22 (technically 15) year slumber. I even made up a fun story about Geno quitting his job at the arcade in Little Fungitown so he could go apply for a job at Super Smash Brothers Ultimate.

EDIT: I made a typo.

 

[Deleted member]

It was hard to track it down, cause I’d read it but didn’t remember when.

https://youtu.be/CV76QegRezE

tl;dr (It’s a really long and rambling video) Dude asked a Disney exec if Sora had any chance for Smash, and the guy said that if Nintendo was up for it Disney was as well.



Thanks. I’m glad someone finds at least a bit of value in what I’m saying.


Kingdom Hearts is also on Nintendo platforms, and has been since the second game. (Also, we got the best games, at least imo, so point for Nintendo fans)



That I can agree with. Thank God DMCV is a thing.

The last KH game on a Nintendo console was 6 years ago and has been remastered multiple times on competitors' consoles. The director of Kingdom Hearts says he doesn't have any plans of bringing KH3 to the Switch until after it releases.

 

[GoodGrief741]

There's always that one dude I encounter that says, "Sora would be the obvious choice because he has demand and isn't irrelevant like Geno! It's obvious the sales will increase! Have you seen the sales to the big Kingdom Hearts games?"

These people do not understand that the big Kingdom Hearts games are directed towards PlayStation and Xbox gamers, not Nintendo gamers. The sales will not increase... yeah, maybe over a thousand, but that's not even enough because Smash Ultimate is aiming towards Nintendo's gamers, and no matter what, it will definitely be the Switch's most sold game. And like I said before, do you really think a PS/Xbox gamer would go through the trouble of buying a $300-400 Switch and Smash Ultimate for $60? No, absolutely not. I used to be an Xbox gamer and I KNOW I would never do this to play as a third-party character in a party game that's on another console. Sure there will be PS/Xbox fans that have Nintendo consoles already, but most of them moved away from Nintendo and I doubt many bought a Switch. A majority of Geno's fans are from Nintendo, at least 99% are, so having a fan-favorite character that's been wanted by the Smash/Nintendo community for two decades would generate MUCH more hype for Nintendo and Smash's fans.

Also, who wouldn't be hyped to see everyone's favorite doll after 22 years? Everyone would be so excited to see Geno make a return after his 22 (technically 15) year slumber. I even made up a fun story about Geno quitting his job at the arcade in Little Fungitown so he could go apply for a job at Super Smash Brothers Ultimate.

EDIT: I made a typo.

Ugh, why do people keep making that mistake?

As of yet, no Kingdom Hearts game has made it to any Xbox console. Kingdom Hearts 3 being announced for Xbox One was actually a big deal for those guys. I get associating KH with PlayStation, but associating it with Xbox is just plain wrong.

The last KH game on a Nintendo console was 6 years ago and has been remastered multiple times on competitors' consoles. The director of Kingdom Hearts says he doesn't have any plans of bringing KH3 to the Switch until after it releases.

And your point is? You said Kingdom Hearts is a game on PlayStation, that’s still wrong.

 

[Luigi The President]

I came here at the wrong time

 

[Xevious 1]

The last KH game on a Nintendo console was 6 years ago and has been remastered multiple times on competitors' consoles. The director of Kingdom Hearts says he doesn't have any plans of bringing KH3 to the Switch until after it releases.

My criteria for third parties

1. Must be one of the biggest icons whose franchises carry game history. When I say that I mean the third party must have Legend of Zelda with Link, Metroid with Samus, and Pokemon with Pikachu level of importance (Pac Man/arcades, Cloud/Final Fantasy, Snake/Metal Gear, Ryu/Street Fighter, Sonic/Sega)
or
2. Must be so close to Nintendo that they are/were practically Nintendo. (Bayonetta)
3. Both (Mega Man and Simon)

Sora fits neither one or two. Yeah he is iconic, but not to the level of the other third parties (besides Simon and Bayo). And his franchise is big, but not as big or as important as the other third parties. He had games on Nintendo (I think only on handhelds), but isn't associated with them and is more associated with Sony

 

[Deleted member]

Ugh, why do people keep making that mistake?

As of yet, no Kingdom Hearts game has made it to any Xbox console. Kingdom Hearts 3 being announced for Xbox One was actually a big deal for those guys. I get associating KH with PlayStation, but associating it with Xbox is just plain wrong.



And your point is? You said Kingdom Hearts is a game on PlayStation, that’s still wrong.

Umm...Kingdom Hearts 3 is a game coming to the PS4, a console of a competitor of Nintendo. The director of Kingdom Hearts 3 stated that he doesn't plan on bringing KH3 to Switch until after it releases, and the SE rep was implied back in late August, so Nintendo adding Sora wouldn't be a smart idea, since they would promote the PS4 and KH3, all of that money going to Disney (and some SE, but I'm not sure). Since the first DLC character will be the SE rep, Sora is unlikely. The last KH game on a Nintendo console was 6 years ago and has been remastered multiple times on competitors' consoles. The first DLC character may have been decided in 2015 as well, so if Sora being the first DLC character would promote the last KH game on a Nintendo console, but being a Sora fan, they would purchase that game that has been remastered on a console that they may already have

 

[alemerltoucanet]

I came here at the wrong time

You're right.

 

[SSGuy]

I can vouch that Sora is not as big as we claim him to be. Sure Kingdom Hearts 1 sold 6 million copies, but after that most of the games sold under a million units. And even as spin offs, they can be viewed as AAA games for the Kingdom Hearts brand when you factor in the licensing nightmare they had to go through with Disney.

I also want to present my thoughts on why Sora would not benefit Nintendo with new console sales at all. Most Kingdom Hearts fans are either casual Disney fans or just anime nerds with poor taste who are just teetering on their 30s right now with very limited scope on getting other kids into the series. Most of the super hard core Kingdom Hearts fans are not going to find reason to buy a Switch until their game is on it. They are usually the crowd that will look at Smash from a super casual perspective and say 'the game is pretty cool', put 6 hours max into it's 5-6 year run on a friend's system that they probably got much earlier and never turn Nintendo a profit ever. People enjoy Kingdom Hearts can still have a Switch and even play Smash Bros on it, but they are going to have one of the other systems (probably a PS4 due to growing up with a PS2) but they aren't going to be getting KH3 for a Nintendo console anytime soon. Even if it was readily available, 95% of all of these Sora fanboys are going to get it for PS4/Xbox over Switch every time.

On the same note, you can still have a character like Geno or Chocobo and still promote the hell out of games coming to your system or already on your system. (In this case, one of the many FF games coming or the SNES Mini)

Maybe I am being a little too pessimistic about it but after being around the Smash Community for 12 years, you kind of get an understanding of every type of player that messes with these games.

As I have mentioned 100 times on here and on Discord, Sora would have no issues with Sakurai at the helm. He has expressed interest in the character, is pretty good buds with Nomura and has no care for direct competition. But with Nintendo at the helm, the ballgame has changed once again and I have no doubt you need to look at Geno or Chocobo as your two most likely characters.

 

[Luigi The President]

You're right.

Call me back here when it's chill almerl LOL

 

[Deleted member]

I can vouch that Sora is not as big as we claim him to be. Sure Kingdom Hearts 1 sold 6 million copies, but after that most of the games sold under a million units. And even as spin offs, they can be viewed as AAA games for the Kingdom Hearts brand when you factor in the licensing nightmare they had to go through with Disney.

I also want to present my thoughts on why Sora would not benefit Nintendo with new console sales at all. Most Kingdom Hearts fans are either casual Disney fans or just anime nerds with poor taste who are just teetering on their 30s right now with very limited scope on getting other kids into the series. Most of the super hard core Kingdom Hearts fans are not going to find reason to buy a Switch until their game is on it. They are usually the crowd that will look at Smash from a super casual perspective and say 'the game is pretty cool', put 6 hours max into it's 5-6 year run on a friend's system that they probably got much earlier and never turn Nintendo a profit ever. People enjoy Kingdom Hearts can still have a Switch and even play Smash Bros on it, but they are going to have one of the other systems (probably a PS4 due to growing up with a PS2) but they aren't going to be getting KH3 for a Nintendo console anytime soon. Even if it was readily available, 95% of all of these Sora fanboys are going to get it for PS4/Xbox over Switch every time.

On the same note, you can still have a character like Geno or Chocobo and still promote the hell out of games coming to your system or already on your system. (In this case, one of the many FF games coming or the SNES Mini)

Maybe I am being a little too pessimistic about it but after being around the Smash Community for 12 years, you kind of get an understanding of every type of player that messes with these games.

As I have mentioned 100 times on here and on Discord, Sora would have no issues with Sakurai at the helm. He has expressed interest in the character, is pretty good buds with Nomura and has no care for direct competition. But with Nintendo at the helm, the ballgame has changed once again and I have no doubt you need to look at Geno or Chocobo as your two most likely characters.

I agree with you. This is a fair way to state it. Another thing I want to add that makes Chocobo unlikely - FF still only has two music tracks, the director of the music tracks isn't affiliated with SE anymore, and the tracks are very expensive, making another FF character unlikely. Since Chocobo was the other likely candidate for the SE rep and we can rule him out......G E N O

 

[GoodGrief741]

Umm...Kingdom Hearts 3 is a game coming to the PS4, a console of a competitor of Nintendo. The director of Kingdom Hearts 3 stated that he doesn't plan on bringing KH3 to Switch until after it releases, and the SE rep was implied back in late August, so Nintendo adding Sora wouldn't be a smart idea, since they would promote the PS4 and KH3, all of that money going to Disney (and some SE, but I'm not sure). Since the first DLC character will be the SE rep, Sora is unlikely. The last KH game on a Nintendo console was 6 years ago and has been remastered multiple times on competitors' consoles. The first DLC character may have been decided in 2015 as well, so if Sora being the first DLC character would promote the last KH game on a Nintendo console, but being a Sora fan, they would purchase that game that has been remastered on a console that they may already have

Again, my comment was in response to you saying Nintendo and Disney are competitors. That is simply untrue.

Beyond that, if DLC was decided in 2015, then the latest KH game (not counting the browser one) was a 3DS exclusive released three years prior. Not bad, huh? Especially considering KH3 was in development hell back then.

 

[Luigi The President]

I agree with you. This is a fair way to state it. Another thing I want to add that makes Chocobo unlikely - FF still only has two music tracks, the director of the music tracks isn't affiliated with SE anymore, and the tracks are very expensive, making another FF character unlikely. Since Chocobo was the other likely candidate for the SE rep and we can rule him out......G E N O

As a ****ing MASSIVE Geno fan you are deluding yourself