Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[FCZHornet]

I did see what happened to MvCi and even posted about it in this thread as a reason why Sora won’t happen; all the points about how Sora is unlikely are super valid and I agree entirely, I don’t think he’s happening. I am specifically responding to people saying Sora would not generate a lot of hype or sales, or that Sora would create less then both opposed to our boy Geno.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Sora is a character that would generate a lot of hype and excitement and would definitely take the internet by storm upon announcement. That cannot be denied. However, I don't really see his chances. Like everyone else, I don't mean to bash Sora fans but I feel like his popularity is kind of exaggerated in some cases, and being that he has little Nintendo history, it will have to be popularity that drives his inclusion into the game like Cloud. If it wasn't for fan requests, I doubt Cloud would have ever made it into Smash because he has like no Nintendo history if I recall correctly.

Another thing: This is constantly talked about, but Disney is an obstacle and would be a pain in the ass for Sakurai and his crew to implement. Sakurai could probably get the rights to Sora and Kingdom Hearts because he's said that him and his team are great at negotiating with other companies at this point, but would it really be worth it? Half of Sora is Disney. If manga characters cannot get into Smash, then I doubt that Donald, Goofy, King Mickey, or any Disney properties will appear in the game. And I don't know if Sora would be interesting enough or be represented well with just him and other original Kingdom Hearts additions.

To sum things up, Sora would most likely be a crowd pleaser, but the circumstances of him and his series just make things so difficult. I don't want to downplay Sora's abilities and powers, but would Sakurai really go out of his way and do all of this negotiating with Disney for another magic swordsman who's got an anime hairstyle? Cloud already fits that bill...

There are just other choices that can bring a more unique style to Smash. Sora is nothing without Disney, and I am 99.9% certain we will not see anything Disney related in Smash. Smash isn't just about popular/iconic video game characters duking it out. If it was, we wouldn't have Duck Hunt, R.O.B., Pit, Ness, etc. That is why I have hope for Geno. He is a Squeenix rep that would add a lot of uniqueness and personality to an already diverse roster, something that Sora just can't really do.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

ignore this post

 

[SSGuy]

ignore this post

No

 

[GoodGrief741]

We are just trying to use logic and common sense when we say Sora isn't happening.

Above all else, why would anyone want Disney getting involved in Super Smash Bros? Did you not see what happened to Marvel vs Capcom Infinite?

To be fair, MvCI got ****ed by Marvel Entertainment’s dumbass decisions towards X-Men. I don’t think the higher-ups at Disney has much to do with that.

Also, Disney has different treatment for different properties. They won’t make the same kinds of decisions for their Marvel pantheon that they would for Star Wars, or Mickey Mouse, and certainly not Kingdom Hearts (something they seem to value much less than their other properties).

 

[hustler713]

I did see what happened to MvCi and even posted about it in this thread as a reason why Sora won’t happen; all the points about how Sora is unlikely are super valid and I agree entirely, I don’t think he’s happening. I am specifically responding to people saying Sora would not generate a lot of hype or sales, or that Sora would create less then both opposed to our boy Geno.

I have to disagree on that. To us Smash Fans who followed speculation on multiple iterations on smash we are hyped about characters like Geno or Isaac.

But first of all to the majority of people who usually don't follow speculation or interviews of sakurai, Geno is just a weird one shot Mario Character from an older Game on the snes. To us who follow speculation Geno is the character Sakurai wanted since Brawl (actually he stated that he wanted him since 64 if i remember correctly) which didn't get in because of Square not wanting to be represented in smash, or wanting to represent ff over a "weird" char like Geno.
Cloud or Sora or BK are bigger headlines than Geno or Isaac because they are not only unsuspected but also better known to the large majority.

 

[SSGuy]

To be fair, MvCI got ****ed by Marvel Entertainment’s ******* decisions towards X-Men. I don’t think the higher-ups at Disney has much to do with that.

Also, Disney has different treatment for different properties. They won’t make the same kinds of decisions for their Marvel pantheon that they would for Star Wars, or Mickey Mouse, and certainly not Kingdom Hearts (something they seem to value much less than their other properties).

It was Disney's ultimate say in not including X-Men, Fantastic Four or anything that is from Fox or Sony's branch. Marvel's decision is ultimately Disney's decision.

It isn't even so much the characters, they requested that their characters look better than the Capcom ones which explains **** models for Chun Li and Dante

 

[Loliko YnT]

Pikmin 4 news.

We're going to get Mother 3 translated before Pikmin 4 , trust me. Their Pikmin 4 .jpg isn't ready yet.

On another note , I Hope the T-posing Geno is finished lol

(Why does the most recent and hype announcements from Nintendo come from .jpg of the title of their games.)

 

[Sigran101]

Where is the indication that Cloud was wanted? There was basically zero traction for Cloud on the ballot. Hell, Sora probably got more votes than Cloud. Yet his inclusion caused an explosion of hype (and some confusion and outrage, lol). People love to see a "worlds collide" scenario, when characters from wildly different universes meet. Sora has been on Nintendo consoles more than Cloud has and tons of people own multiple systems anyway. There are plenty of Nintendo fans who also own Sony systems and enjoy games on it.

Sora also polled highly on a recent Reddit DLC questionnaire (of 6000 responses):

So if you want to talk about fan demand, Sora certainly has it. The series is gearing up for the conclusion to its 17 year long saga, people would very much be excited to see this character in the biggest video game crossover of all time.

I'm just happy Joker made the list. It's a good day for me.

 

[FCZHornet]

I have to disagree on that. To us Smash Fans who followed speculation on multiple iterations on smash we are hyped about characters like Geno or Isaac.

But first of all to the majority of people who usually don't follow speculation or interviews of sakurai, Geno is just a weird one shot Mario Character from an older Game on the snes. To us who follow speculation Geno is the character Sakurai wanted since Brawl (actually he stated that he wanted him since 64 if i remember correctly) which didn't get in because of Square not wanting to be represented in smash, or wanting to represent ff over a "weird" char like Geno.
Cloud or Sora or BK are bigger headlines than Geno or Isaac because they are not only unsuspected but also better known to the large majority.

I’m not sure what you disagree with, it sounds like you and I are saying the exact same thing.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Where is the indication that Cloud was wanted? There was basically zero traction for Cloud on the ballot. Hell, Sora probably got more votes than Cloud. Yet his inclusion caused an explosion of hype (and some confusion and outrage, lol). People love to see a "worlds collide" scenario, when characters from wildly different universes meet. Sora has been on Nintendo consoles more than Cloud has and tons of people own multiple systems anyway. There are plenty of Nintendo fans who also own Sony systems and enjoy games on it.

Sora also polled highly on a recent Reddit DLC questionnaire (of 6000 responses):

So if you want to talk about fan demand, Sora certainly has it. The series is gearing up for the conclusion to its 17 year long saga, people would very much be excited to see this character in the biggest video game crossover of all time.

1. Cloud was a meme in the Smash community pretty much until his announcement because he was notoriously popular among casual fans. After Snake got in, Cloud was probably the second most requested third party character after Sonic.

The video above is from the summer of 2008 as an example of this. People still joke that he was basically memed into Smash because it's kind of true. The numbers were definitely there, it's just that the Smash community thought that it was totally impossible. He was like the Waluigi of third party characters until he was confirmed and that's why it blew people's minds.

2. I've already gone into this extensively but Cloud is the face of Final Fantasy, bar none. The first 6 mainline Final Fantasy games were released on Nintendo platforms between 1987 and 1997 and then Final Fantasy has been consistent with spinoffs on Nintendo platforms since 2002 with tons of exclusives.

3. With all of Cloud's cameos, he outnumbers Sora's Nintendo appearances. Sora has three. Cloud has two of the three Theatrhythm games, Final Fantasy Explorers, Chain of Memories, and, of course, Smash for 3DS, Smash for Wii U, and a soon to be rerelease of Final Fantasy VII on Switch, World of Final Fantasy Maxima, and Smash Ultimate.

4. This is one poll... that was done at the end of the base roster being revealed... with 4 of the top ten characters being discomfirmed... and Geno STILL beats him here... You done played yourself.

 

[FCZHornet]

1. Cloud was a meme in the Smash community pretty much until his announcement because he was notoriously popular among casual fans. After Snake got in, Cloud was probably the second most requested third party character after Sonic.

The video above is from the summer of 2008 as an example of this. People still joke that he was basically memed into Smash because it's kind of true. The numbers were definitely there, it's just that the Smash community thought that it was totally impossible. He was like the Waluigi of third party characters until he was confirmed and that's why it blew people's minds.

2. I've already gone into this extensively but Cloud is the face of Final Fantasy, bar none. The first 6 mainline Final Fantasy games were released on Nintendo platforms between 1987 and 1997 and then Final Fantasy has been consistent with spinoffs on Nintendo platforms since 2002 with tons of exclusives.

3. With all of Cloud's cameos, he outnumbers Sora's Nintendo appearances. Sora has three. Cloud has two of the three Theatrhythm games, Final Fantasy Explorers, Chain of Memories, and, of course, Smash for 3DS, Smash for Wii U, and a soon to be rerelease of Final Fantasy VII on Switch, World of Final Fantasy Maxima, and Smash Ultimate.

4. This is one poll... that was done at the end of the base roster being revealed... with 4 of the top ten characters being discomfirmed... and Geno STILL beats him here... You done played yourself.

I don’t think anyone played anyone here, he was just providing an example that Sora is still in the hearts and minds of smash players.

 

[skydogc]

Maybe he's just testing the smash community to see if they are crazy enough to start making up beaver theory

Norbert and Daggett as Ice Climbers echoes confirmed!

 

[Loliko YnT]

Alright , this is going to be my last speculation / theory / argument post.

Sora won't promote anything Nintendo related , no recent KH game on Switch , no plan to port KH3 to the Switch. Negotiating with Disney isn't impossible , but damn they want a lot of money , probably more than Square.
Outside of DLCs sales / amiibo , Sora won't give anything to Nintendo except promotion for a franchise wich is mainly on competitors consoles.

A DQ rep mean picking a japanese rep. No offend to japanese characters ( I wanted Lip or Takamaru playable. ) but not even Japan is asking for DQ in Smash. You would have to go through Square , Armor project and a anti-LGBT /War crime denier composer for 2 MIDI music tracks.
Also , he suffer from the "anime swordman" syndrome. Yeah , childish argument , but seriously , it's done to death. Also is a complete who to the Western audience , no Big DQ game on the Switch , only a spin-off , and a port for the 3DS.
Risky pick , would just please the japanese crowd , and Sakurai avoid this kind of character.

Sora and a DQ rep are risky picks for theses reasons. Yeah , a risk can be worth it. But they are just too polarizing from a buisnes perspective.

And then come Geno.

Requested world-wide , even if It's not as much as Sora.

Requested since Melee/Brawl , Sora isn't.

Easier character to negotiate over-all (Only Square , and they are fine with the Mii costume , so why not a playable character that will give them quick and easy money ?)

Unique design , may not appeal to everyone , but is diversified enough to stand out.

Would give faith to the customers for DLC (third party + requested + unique , showing that Nintendo is LISTENING.) where a DQ rep won't.

Can promote the SNES classic , an already existing and recent Nintendo product. (They just have to Say "SMRPG and other Nintendo classic are on the SNES classic" and people would be interested.)

People would know him , because of the spotlight he's been getting since the Mii costume. Nintendo celebrating the 22th SMRPG anniversary with a tweet , and is the most liked Nintendo tweet.

People that may not know him? He's unique , and can be a over-all fun character. If Captain Falcon was DLC , everyone would buy him despise not knowing F-Zero , a character design can alone convince a purchase for a DLC character.

What risk are involved with Geno ? Tell me.
No big risks. The only issue is if Square decide to make him super expansive to use for Nintendo for no damn reason.


I know that KH is more popular than SMRPG , I know that DQ is huge in Japan , I know we're a smaller group than the KH/DQ fans , I know we are die-hard fans.

The thing is , from a buisness perspective , Sora or a DQ rep are risky picks , especially for a first DLC. Wherehas Geno would be an Amazing character to start of , isn't risky , and is from all aspect , a more CONSISTENT character.

By that I mean that he isn't polarizing. He's not a god tier character in only one region , he's popular world-wide IN THE SMASH SCENE AND OVER-ALL NINTENDO FANBASE , the target audience that matter the most (with Nintendo products consummers), because people who bought Smash are :
-Switch owner.
-Nintendo player
-Smash fans.

Yeah , they can be KH fans with a PS4 and a Switch. See , the key word is "They can be".

I'm going to bite hard , but I found this possibility immature in a way.
It may only be me , but I don't know a lot of people that are KH fans , while having enough money to but the 2 most expensive consoles right now , while beeing interested in Smash.
This is a way smaller target audience than the Geno fans , wich are more than probably NINTENDO PLAYERS , BECAUSE SMRPG IS A FREAKING MARIO GAME.

You can say that KH/DQ is bigger , that Sora would break the internet (because his inclusion lack any sense , it would only be to please the KH fans) , that Square want to push DQ to the West ( while having no plan to release a translated version of the most recent DQ game for the Switch , that isn't released in Japan yet. And that Nintendo is picking DLCs , IT'S NOT SQUARE'S GAME. They can make suggestions , but have low power concerning Smash.), you can say that my arguments are based on the fact that the first DLC is Geno , you can say that I'm making strawgrasping arguments.

I'm fed up of this. That's why Iv'e made this post , to realize how silly it would be for Nintendo to pick theses characters over Geno.

Nintendo has enough power to buy /convince Square to let them use Geno , or outright buying Geno's rights to give him his own franchise , a SMRPG remake or anything with Geno's face on it.

I love Geno , I love the Mario RPGs , despise all their flaws and how horribly they handled Paper Mario. Despise the fact that Alphadream is probably fed up from M&L and don't have ideas anymore , I support this franchise.
Despise SMRPG beeing a stand-alone title with a character that almost break the game (Peach) and is more than 20 years old , I loved it because it reminded me why I loved video games. Fun , learning , and sharing . This game reminded me that , something I have forgot since 2 years.

And so , I hope that from now on , the Geno VS Sora VS DQ debate calm down.
It's pretty much 60% of this thread now , every arguments have been listed over and over , and each side is digging deeper only to find nothing.

I know I won't stop this debate.
But I really think It's hurting the thread.
Speculation is a Big part of all of this , but this specific subject is case closed. There is almost nothing we can add.

I Hope nobody was offended by what I said , this isn't my objective.
You love Sora and DQ ? Then support the franchise character ! One day , they may have a chance , and have a Good future for them. Let's not make fandom wars.

Our objective is getting Geno in Smash, without it , he can't have any future games , he'll only have the fans. I'm not a supporter since the Brawl days , Iv'e only finished SMRPG 5 months ago.
But that mean something.

What was once your irrelevant and obscure character , is now in the spotlight and is making people share their experiences , thoughts , art , videos , about SMRPG all over the internet. This is an Amazing Victory in itself.

Let's be confident , Geno has heard our wish and will do his best. But keep wishing for him , in your own way , don't feel forced to not support him because he may not come back and someone else would.
Keep wishing , making them a reality is Geno's job , and he love it.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Yes Sora is a popular video game character, and that is literally ALL he has going for him.

None of the other details even come close to a result of him getting in this game. I honestly don't even know why a few guys just came in here and decided to latch on to and argue Sora's chances of all characters, it is just asinine at this point.

Next please

 

[TheBeastHimself]

If Geno isn't in the game this time around, I will probably be upset and complain (I mean hey, it's my right to do so). There is no excuse anymore for Geno not being in the game. Nintendo and Square have greatly improved their relationship. Sakurai and his team already have the rights to Geno as seen in Smash 4 and Ultimate. They also have the rights to Beware The Forest's Mushrooms. The only reason he wouldn't be included this time is because either Nintendo didn't choose him or Sakurai didn't choose him off Nintendo's list (the former would seem more likely since Sakurai has expressed his interest in Geno in the past). Geno is literally being dangled in front of us, just barely out of reach.

So if Nintendo did not select Geno as a DLC possibility, I think everyone has the right to be upset. Geno's chances have never been higher. This is truly his one shot to get into the game. If Nintendo decides to spit on everyone's dreams, especially when his chances are this high, it will greatly affect his ability to get into future titles. I can imagine the majority of the Geno fanbase giving up after Ultimate if he still isn't it, because how likely will it be for his chances to be this good again?

 

[StormC]

I don’t think anyone played anyone here, he was just providing an example that Sora is still in the hearts and minds of smash players.

Bingo.

I've played ten minutes of Kingdom Hearts max and have said before that SMRPG is one of my all time favorite games. I'm not even sure what Sora's chances are because of the legal fiasco. But I think there is a bit of a sense of denial in this thread that Geno would objectively be chosen just because he is more popular in the hardcore Smash community (whether or not that was actually reflected in the ballot results). I don't like how often people in this thread try to play down other Square characters, perhaps because they expected Geno through most of Ultimate's cycle and were confused/disappointed when the game didn't meet their expectation. There's any number of reasons why one character made it, or another didn't, and so on.

I spent a lot of time in the K. Rool thread(s) from Smash 4 to Ultimate and saw a lot of characters get craptalked just because they weren't a fat crocodile king. I wasn't surprised or outraged at all when Cloud was announced as DLC but not K. Rool, even though others were; there was basically no scenario to me where K. Rool would be a more hype pick than Cloud, but people staying inside their Smash speculation bubble often fail to see the bigger picture. There are many reasons why Sora, or a DQ character, or anyone would be picked as a Smash character and none of them should be underestimated.

The fact that Geno got as much as he did, a costume and acknowledgment from Sakurai, is honestly an amazing accomplishment considering the relative obscurity of the character. I think that should not be understated. I imagine if Geno didn't get in, it's probably Square and Nintendo's fault more than his.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm just happy Joker made the list.

Same, but for King Boo. Also, I find it funny how Goku just so happens to be at the very center of the entire chart, as if to emphasize how much he is an elephant in the room.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yes Sora is a popular video game character, and that is literally ALL he has going for him.

A reminder that being a popular request is the only thing we’ve got as well.

 

[JarBear]

It would be cruel if he is not inserted since he has been teased first in Sm4sh and now with the token icon.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

A reminder that being a popular request is the only thing we’ve got as well.

You just keep on proving that you aren't reading any of the posts for what Geno has going for him.

And if you can't be bothered to read, I'm not going to bother spoonfeeding you something you'll gloss over.

You should honestly recuse yourself from this thread because you aren't advancing discussion whatsoever and are stuck on repeating very tired and useless points

 

[hustler713]

I’m not sure what you disagree with, it sounds like you and I are saying the exact same thing.

Well then sorry, to me it sounded like you were saying geno would be a bigger Headline.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

A reminder that being a popular request is the only thing we’ve got as well.

I will say that popularity would be the driving force behind Geno's inclusion, but not necessarily the only reason. Saying that "a popular request is the only thing we've got" would be discrediting Sakurai's own endorsement of the character, along with the success of SMRPG on the SNES classic.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don’t think anyone played anyone here, he was just providing an example that Sora is still in the hearts and minds of smash players.

Except he defeated his own arguments about longevity and being more popular than Geno by showing a very recent poll with a ton of equally recent discomfirmed characters just right behind him and Geno still beats him despite many people having doubts because of the gamer icon. The argument wasn't that Sora wasn't wanted, it's that empirical evidence has shown that he regularly gets beaten out by characters that he honestly shouldn't be getting beaten out by if he's supposed to produce "Cloud levels of hype" and honestly surpass the likes of Ridley and K. Rool. The evidence is definitely there and has been since 2014 that Banjo definitely would be a megaton announcement but not Sora. Sora would probably just edge out Ryu when it comes to third party character reveals but only because Ryu's Smash fanbase was virtually non-existent.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Speculating about characters is fun, but...

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what fan ballots say or who has what chances. Nintendo can choose whoever the hell they want for DLC, even if a character (like Geno) is a few steps away from being confirmed.

I'm saying this because it seems like we're getting to a point where people are so attached to their favorite characters that bringing up the prospect of them not getting in leads to insulting, wisecracks, and grasping at straws to provide a counterargument. I'm not saying it's specifically here, just something I noticed around the Smash community as a whole. Some people need to chill out with all of this. It's great to show your passion and support for a character, but let's not be jerks to each other. I'll say it one more time, Nintendo can choose ANYONE they want regardless of what a character's chances are. This post isn't gonna do anything obviously, so I guess I'll just have to sit back and watch everyone tear each other's throats out until all DLC has been announced.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Speculating about characters is fun, but...

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what fan ballots say or who has what chances. Nintendo can choose whoever the hell they want for DLC, even if a character (like Geno) is a few steps away from being confirmed.

I'm saying this because it seems like we're getting to a point where people are so attached to their favorite characters that bringing up the prospect of them not getting in leads to insulting, wisecracks, and grasping at straws to provide a counterargument. I'm not saying it's specifically here, just something I noticed around the Smash community as a whole. Some people need to chill out with all of this. It's great to show your passion and support for a character, but let's not be jerks to each other. I'll say it one more time, Nintendo can choose ANYONE they want regardless of what a character's chances are. This post isn't gonna do anything obviously, so I guess I'll just have to sit back and watch everyone tear each other's throats out until all DLC has been announced.

And this is why I'll try to post things more related to SMRPG and Geno directly.

Even if It's completely silly , like a dumb theory on how Mallow could have made a Bruce Lee reference because he was watching a Bruce Lee movie with Frogfucius one time and thought he was a frog martial artist.

 

[StormC]

Except he defeated his own arguments about longevity and being more popular than Geno by showing a very recent poll with a ton of equally recent discomfirmed characters just right behind him and Geno still beats him despite many people having doubts because of the gamer icon. The argument wasn't that Sora wasn't wanted, it's that empirical evidence has shown that he regularly gets beaten out by characters that he honestly shouldn't be getting beaten out by if he's supposed to produce "Cloud levels of hype" and honestly surpass the likes of Ridley and K. Rool. The evidence is definitely there and has been since 2014 that Banjo definitely would be a megaton announcement but not Sora. Sora would probably just edge out Ryu when it comes to third party character reveals but only because Ryu's Smash fanbase was virtually non-existent.

Where was Cloud on the ballot polls leading up to his reveal? Way behind characters like K. Rool and Isaac, yet here he was.

Fan polls aren't the end-all be-all measure of hype. All the attention Smash would get alone from headlines like "KINGDOM HEARTS CROSSES OVER INTO SMASH BROS." would be insane. Geno would make a diehard sect of internet posters happy, and would be treated as a curiosity by most outsiders.

Sorry dude, I know you're all in on Geno, and I get that, but I really think you are not seeing the forest for the trees on this one.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Where was Cloud on the ballot polls leading up to his reveal? Way behind characters like K. Rool and Isaac, yet here he was.

Fan polls aren't the end-all be-all measure of hype. All the attention Smash would get alone from headlines like "KINGDOM HEARTS CROSSES OVER INTO SMASH BROS." would be insane. Geno would make a diehard sect of internet posters happy, and would be treated as a curiosity by most outsiders.

Sorry dude, I know you're all in on Geno, and I get that, but I really think you are not seeing the forest for the trees on this one.

Organized ballot polls weren't a thing until very recently. And he's already explained numerous times that Cloud's presence as a meme fan demand was everywhere back in those days. Sora doesn't even come close to Cloud. It really is insane to me that you guys read everything we're saying as "In general, Geno is more popular than Sora"

 

[Fatmanonice]

So your ace in the hole is an imagined, ideal hypothetical without evidence that's based on conjecture on how you personally believe things are. Well, that's that then.

 

[StormC]

Organized ballot polls weren't a thing until very recently. And he's already explained numerous times that Cloud's presence as a meme fan demand was everywhere back in those days. Sora doesn't even come close to Cloud. It really is insane to me that you guys read everything we're saying as "In general, Geno is more popular than Sora"

What? There were tons of Smash polls during the ballot era. Here's one from Reddit with 10,000 responses. And one from Tumblr based on third parties. How is meme data relevant to who was actually wanted almost a decade later?

Characters have more objective value than who votes for them in online polls, that's my point. It isn't as cut and dry as characters just appealing to hardcore Smash fans who obsess over the series all day on forums. The Smash Ballot had 1.8 million responses, while Smash 3DS had 9M+ users. Nintendo and Sakurai very well might decide to go for DLC with a broader appeal.

 

[Loliko YnT]

https://twitter.com/Stoic_Miiverse/status/1062898071980392449?s=09

After Geno's Pizza , Geno's replacement job at Waluigi Tacos Stand.
I'm so proud of him.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Alright, let's roll with the hypothetical. Nintendo chooses Sora because they see him as a popular pick. Smash Bros X Kingdom Hearts, all that. Where does it go from there? "I'm an impressionable consumer, I sure am, and I totally want to play more Kingdom Hearts because of Sora in Smash. Hmm, just one game on the 3DS... But wait! The PS3, PS4, XBox 360, and XBox One have multiple KH games? Willikers! I should totally buy those! What's this? Kingdom Hearts III?! Hot dog! Sucks it's not on the Switch but hells ya I want it!" Nintendo basically did all this work to get him in to have him predominantly act as an ad for their competitors, all while Disney pulls in more of the profit because Sora is DLC and not the base game. It's a net loss all around.

As pointed out several times before, the most recent KH game in Nintendo's camp is 6 years old that's already been remastered on their competitors' consoles. Sora is a dead end while literally all the other third party picks open things up for more Nintendo support whether through recent games, the eShop, or the virtual console. Sora would basically be hypothetically good for Nintendo for Smash Ultimate (in the absolute best case scenario of Sora himself spurred a big increase in sales for the game) and... that's it. Even Geno has the virtual console and SNES Classic prospects. Characters like Ice Climbers and Pit have driven virtual console sales for years so, yes, retro characters and older games do totally count despite the weird assertion someone made earlier that Final Fantasy games without Cloud didn't count.

 

[FCZHornet]

So your ace in the hole is an imagined, ideal hypothetical without evidence that's based on conjecture on how you personally believe things are. Well, that's that then.

I don’t think you guys are arguing over the same point. One group of people is saying “Sora would be a big deal overall,” one group is saying “based on the desire of smash players, Sora would not be a big deal,” and a third group is saying “Sora isn’t as likely as Geno for x, y, z.”

It’s kinda funny to see discussion get heated when I don’t think anyone is arguing over the same thing.

 

[GoodGrief741]

You just keep on proving that you aren't reading any of the posts for what Geno has going for him.

And if you can't be bothered to read, I'm not going to bother spoonfeeding you something you'll gloss over.

You should honestly recuse yourself from this thread because you aren't advancing discussion whatsoever and are stuck on repeating very tired and useless points

All I’m saying is most of the evidence is circumstantial. If Geno gets in, it’s solely because he’s popular. Not because he’d promote the SNES Classic, or because of a tweet by NoA, that’s just rationalization. You could make the argument that Mike Jones is a likely rep because he made the NES Classic, but really, the only reason he’d get in is as a retro character.

I’m sorry you feel that I don’t add anything to discussion, but given how many people are replying to me, I’d say I kinda do.

I will say that popularity would be the driving force behind Geno's inclusion, but not necessarily the only reason. Saying that "a popular request is the only thing we've got" would be discrediting Sakurai's own endorsement of the character, along with the success of SMRPG on the SNES classic.

True, Sakurai liking Geno should not be underestimated, and could likely be the tipping point that gets Geno in a future game. Though that doesn’t really help for DLC.

Speculating about characters is fun, but...

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what fan ballots say or who has what chances. Nintendo can choose whoever the hell they want for DLC, even if a character (like Geno) is a few steps away from being confirmed.

I'm saying this because it seems like we're getting to a point where people are so attached to their favorite characters that bringing up the prospect of them not getting in leads to insulting, wisecracks, and grasping at straws to provide a counterargument. I'm not saying it's specifically here, just something I noticed around the Smash community as a whole. Some people need to chill out with all of this. It's great to show your passion and support for a character, but let's not be jerks to each other. I'll say it one more time, Nintendo can choose ANYONE they want regardless of what a character's chances are. This post isn't gonna do anything obviously, so I guess I'll just have to sit back and watch everyone tear each other's throats out until all DLC has been announced.

Thanks.

Organized ballot polls weren't a thing until very recently. And he's already explained numerous times that Cloud's presence as a meme fan demand was everywhere back in those days. Sora doesn't even come close to Cloud. It really is insane to me that you guys read everything we're saying as "In general, Geno is more popular than Sora"

Fan polls have existed since before Brawl, are you serious?

 

[JarBear]

Overall I think we are all getting a bit heated and let's be fair, everyone has good points. At the end of the day, Smash Ultimate has shown that we can expect the unexpected.

I will always be rooting for Geno and really hope he will be DLC. With that, I am hoping Square and Nintendo's relationship will grow and we can see either a SMRPG 2 or Geno ... and Mallow ... could be included in future Mario games, like the Party franchise or Kart!

 

[TerminalMontage]

Yeah honestly, the case against Geno is pretty good. But he's special since his fans have been rooting for him longer than anyone else now, and it's definitely gotten attention enough to where we got the Mii Costume.

I'm just hoping Nintendo decides to give him to us

 

[GoodGrief741]

Alright, let's roll with the hypothetical. Nintendo chooses Sora because they see him as a popular pick. Smash Bros X Kingdom Hearts, all that. Where does it go from there? "I'm an impressionable consumer, I sure am, and I totally want to play more Kingdom Hearts because of Sora in Smash. Hmm, just one game on the 3DS... But wait! The PS3, PS4, XBox 360, and XBox One have multiple KH games? Willikers! I should totally buy those! What's this? Kingdom Hearts III?! Hot dog! Sucks it's not on the Switch but hells ya I want it!" Nintendo basically did all this work to get him in to have him predominantly act as an ad for their competitors, all while Disney pulls in more of the profit because Sora is DLC and not the base game. It's a net loss all around.

As pointed out several times before, the most recent KH game in Nintendo's camp is 6 years old that's already been remastered on their competitors' consoles. Sora is a dead end while literally all the other third party picks open things up for more Nintendo support whether through recent games, the eShop, or the virtual console. Sora would basically be hypothetically good for Nintendo for Smash Ultimate (in the absolute best case scenario of Sora himself spurred a big increase in sales for the game) and... that's it. Even Geno has the virtual console and SNES Classic prospects. Characters like Ice Climbers and Pit have driven virtual console sales for years so, yes, retro characters and older games do totally count despite the weird assertion someone made earlier that Final Fantasy games without Cloud didn't count.

The most likely scenario is actually ‘Oh boy, Sora’s in the game? I love Sora! Gotta buy the DLC!’

The next likely scenario is ‘Oh boy, Sora’s in this game? I wasn’t so sure about this Smash thing, but now I gotta buy it!’

Then there’s also ‘Oh, who’s this Sora person? Ah, the guy from Kingdom Hearts 3, I guess I’ll give him a go’

And maybe even ‘Oh boy, Kingdom Hearts 3, so hyped. What’s this? Sora in Smash??? Ah man, I guess I should buy a Switch’

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don’t think you guys are arguing over the same point. One group of people is saying “Sora would be a big deal overall,” one group is saying “based on the desire of smash players, Sora would not be a big deal,” and a third group is saying “Sora isn’t as likely as Geno for x, y, z.”

It’s kinda funny to see discussion get heated when I don’t think anyone is arguing over the same thing.

The argument being made is that Sora would be a big enough deal to warrant being added despite multiple drawbacks and I was basically told that I was missing the big picture. Only in an idealistic hypothetical scenario do the pros outweigh the cons, dead stop, THAT'S the big picture. The further you step back, the worse it gets, not better.

 

[FCZHornet]

All I’m saying is most of the evidence is circumstantial. If Geno gets in, it’s solely because he’s popular. Not because he’d promote the SNES Classic, or because of a tweet by NoA, that’s just rationalization. You could make the argument that Mike Jones is a likely rep because he made the NES Classic, but really, the only reason he’d get in is as a retro character.

I’m sorry you feel that I don’t add anything to discussion, but given how many people are replying to me, I’d say I kinda do.



True, Sakurai liking Geno should not be underestimated, and could likely be the tipping point that gets Geno in a future game. Though that doesn’t really help for DLC.



Thanks.



Fan polls have existed since before Brawl, are you serious?

You’ve already stated you want the character, so you’re really in the same boat as all of us. Some people hate to see someone play devil’s advocate because it’s not what they want to hear. I personally think it makes things more interesting.

Unless I misread your intent, the only thing you and I disagree on is I believe Geno’s chances for DLC are pretty damn high, and given what we know about how SE plays ball when lending their property, it looks like he had a better chance for DLC then he ever did for base roster.

 

[GoodGrief741]

You’ve already stated you want the character, so you’re really in the same boat as all of us. Some people hate to see someone play devil’s advocate because it’s not what they want to hear. I personally think it makes things more interesting.

Unless I misread your intent, the only thing you and I disagree on is I believe Geno’s chances for DLC are pretty damn high, and given what we know about how SE plays ball when lending their property, it looks like he had a better chance for DLC then he ever did for base roster.

I don’t believe any cool character has any chance as DLC, but that’s mostly borne of my dissatisfaction with Ultimate. I guess I might be biased in my own right.