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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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CannonStreak

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Everyone calm down! For all we seem to be doing, we are probably just overreacting! Geno is not even associated with Paper Mario, and neither is he wholly owned by Nintendo itself. I mean, there may be something yet we are missing that makes this not bad for Geno at all.
 

helloiamhere

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Baseless Speculation

You know, this actually got me thinking... Yuji Horii is known for making Dragon Quest series, but he's also known for making the Fortune Street series, a board game thats a precursor to Mario Party.



In the Wii version of Fortune Street, it was a mash up between Dragon Quest and Mario... it also featured music from Super Mario RPG - this is the only official remix ever of a song from SMRPG (correct me if I'm wrong).


It always bothered me, why the hell does this have music from Super Mario RPG, but not any characters? Well, I think that Tanabe's interview today answered that question. I always assumed that Square was putting a price on Geno that Nintendo didn't want to play, but as of today I think it's much more likely Geno doesn't fit the "no new characters" rule that Nintendo implemented after Mario Galaxy/Super Paper Mario, and thus is the reason for his absence.
 
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Fatmanonice

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As others have said, I don't think there's anything to worry about because Smash Bros is a giant continuity cluster **** to begin with that we could pretty much be here all day if we were to hard list all the stuff that happens in Smash that would never happen in the fighters' respective games.
 
D

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Wow, you're telling me if Origami King did something people wanted and gave characters unique designs and made them actual partners I would like it more? WOW WHO COULD HAVE GUESSED?

This isn't jumping at shadows man, and it's not just limited to Paper Mario, Nintendo's sterilization of the broader Mario brand over the last decade is nothing new and this is just more confirmation of it.
Except I told you that Captain T. Ode is a unique design if you consider Paper Mario 64 partners unique designs. If you're letting your opinion of the game, as a whole, erase the fact that Captain T. Ode is designed like a classic Paper Mario partner character, then there's nothing I can do for you.
 

helloiamhere

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This post explains it well.

Nothing to worry about at all.
Yeah I really don't buy this explanation. Super Paper Mario had Mario, Peach, Bowser, Luigi, and a whole **** load of original non Mushroom Kingdom characters. It didn't even feel like a blue blood Mario game at times. We went from that to TOADS TOADS TOADS in Sticker Star and Color Splash.
 
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Nekoo

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It always bothered me, why the hell does this have music from Super Mario RPG, but not any characters? Well, I think that Tanabe's interview today answered that question. I always assumed that Square was putting a price on Geno that Nintendo didn't want to play, but as of today I think it's much more likely Geno doesn't fit the "no new characters" rule that Nintendo implemented after Mario Galaxy/Super Paper Mario, and thus is the reason for his absence.
Or...get ready for it.
It's a Crossover of Dragon Quest and Mario, and Geno and Mallow are in this grey area?


Also, honestly guys, I just want to tell you to not panic about this interview. If Square proposed the idea of multiple fighting Heroes when it's one of their golden rules to never make that happens. If they made Cloud fight Hero. If they allowed Geno and Mallow as a spirit. If Sakurai really want Geno as a fighter...
He'll get it.
Nintendo might be a roadblock, barely anyone from the SMRPG team is left in the companies, which is pretty surprising in this case. But don't give up hope.
And I'm saying this as someone who support your "enemy" a Guy wearing some clown shoe swinging a big key with a DisneyWorld Keychain.


If Geno has to happens, he'll happens. If he don't. He don't.
But don't give up hope because of that ****.
 

pinshadow

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Except I told you that Captain T. Ode is a unique design if you consider Paper Mario 64 partners unique designs. If you're letting your opinion of the game, as a whole, erase the fact that Captain T. Ode is designed like a classic Paper Mario partner character, then there's nothing I can do for you.
Yea, he is, it's a fine design, even if it is just a Toad in a jacket. But it's also in a game where atleast 95% of the characters still seem to be just generic toads and generic mario enemies. He's still far more of an exception than a rule, and even then it's just the generic red toad in a jacket. It's like saying "Oh, but Sticker Star does have unique designs, what about the Sombrero Guys!" Yea, they are awesome, they are also literally the only unique characters/designs in that game I can think of.
 
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OptimisticStrifer

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It's called "compensating for ****ty graphics". I'm not even kidding. It's an age-old trick to use "artsy" graphical style like paper, cell shading, etc. to create a semi-valid excuse for having underwhelming hardware. Since Tendo is so grossly outmatched by the competition when it comes to graphics, they've had to resort to the "artsy" style even more to create the illusion that they aren't being left in the dust.
Oh no, not creative art styles. I want every game to look so realistic and Grimm you can see the dirt on Link's shoe
 

Paraspikey

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Yeah I really don't buy this explanation. Super Paper Mario had Mario, Peach, Bowser, Luigi, and a whole **** load of original non Mushroom Kingdom characters. It didn't even feel like a blue blood Mario game at times. We went from that to TOADS TOADS TOADS in Sticker Star and Color Splash.
Blame that on Tanabe.
 

Super10ZX

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Baseless Speculation

You know, this actually got me thinking... Yuji Horii is known for making Dragon Quest series, but he's also known for making the Fortune Street series, a board game thats a precursor to Mario Party.



In the Wii version of Fortune Street, it was a mash up between Dragon Quest and Mario... it also featured music from Super Mario RPG - this is the only official remix ever of a song from SMRPG (correct me if I'm wrong).


It always bothered me, why the hell does this have music from Super Mario RPG, but not any characters? Well, I think that Tanabe's interview today answered that question. I always assumed that Square was putting a price on Geno that Nintendo didn't want to play, but as of today I think it's much more likely Geno doesn't fit the "no new characters" rule that Nintendo implemented after Mario Galaxy/Super Paper Mario, and thus is the reason for his absence.
Actually, there is two more official remixes of Mario RPG music. I have mentioned it, but it’s definitely been awhile since then. I’ll just quote my original post about it.
I guess as something that potentially hasn’t been discussed (I dunno can’t be bothered to look through all 2764 pages), there are actually a couple official remixes of Mario RPG songs. Specifically Beware the Forest’s Mushrooms and Goodbye Geno. Both of which were made for the album memória - The Very Best of Yoko Shimomura back in 2014.


I dunno. Just wanted to see how many people were aware of these.
 

Firox

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*wheels chalkboard into the classroom*
*smacks it with a pointer and then grabs chalk*

The Dragon Quest franchise has very strict rules concerning the appearance of the main heroes outside of their original games. Namely, they rarely if ever appear in games together and, on the once in a blue moon occasion that they do, they are NEVER allowed to fight each other...

Unless your name is Masahiro Mother ****ing Sakurai.

In the history of Square Enix as a unified brand, there has never been a major crossover between Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, they are kept wholly separate...

Unless your name is Masahiro Mother ****ing Sakurai

Now there are SOME rules Sakurai cannot break. Sonic is never red, Pac-Man is always yellow, but when it comes to where and how characters can appear, he holds more sway than a significant percentage of the industry. So if there’s ANYONE who can get break the “Mario Original RPG Characters can appear only once” rule, it’s

Say it with me class

Masahiro Mother ****ing Sakurai

(Also as a side note, when Sakurai first went to Square asking for Cloud, they asked why he didn’t want one of the newer characters, and his response was, to paraphrase, Cloud is the most popular you dumb ****s)
Best. Dissertation. Ever. If only college were this awesome.
 

Fatmanonice

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Or...get ready for it.
It's a Crossover of Dragon Quest and Mario, and Geno and Mallow are in this grey area?


Also, honestly guys, I just want to tell you to not panic about this interview. If Square proposed the idea of multiple fighting Heroes when it's one of their golden rules to never make that happens. If they made Cloud fight Hero. If they allowed Geno and Mallow as a spirit. If Sakurai really want Geno as a fighter...
He'll get it.
Nintendo might be a roadblock, barely anyone from the SMRPG team is left in the companies, which is pretty surprising in this case. But don't give up hope.
And I'm saying this as someone who support your "enemy" a Guy wearing some clown shoe swinging a big key with a DisneyWorld Keychain.


If Geno has to happens, he'll happens. If he don't. He don't.
But don't give up hope because of that ****.
Nekoo, you're not my enemy because you support Sora...

It's because you're French. :troll:
 

TriggerX

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Exactly.

Nintendo isn't going to listen to ****-all. They legitimately don't care.

This is why I advocate for fan games and fan productions so hard. Will they get C&D'd? Will Nintendo's suits get mad? Probably — but **** them. Do whatever dodgy **** you have to do to make them, because this is what the people have been wanting. If Nintendo can't deliver, then it's up to the fans to do so, Nintendo's salty M-M-MUH IP tears be damned.
I really agree with this. In my opinion Nintendo has great IPs , but due to limiting hardware and creative control over their IPs probably limits the developers as well.

If these Mario ports do get revealed, I’m curious how it will stack up against some of the PC versions that pop up. There are really talented people out there that hack and or develop in engines like Unreal that display demos of projects with a lot of promise.

It’s a shame that SMRPG fan game made in unreal hasn’t received any updates because it had a lot of potential. Didn’t seem to get a whole lot of support from this thread which actually surprises me.
 
D

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Yea, he is, it's a fine design, even if it is just a Toad in a jacket. But it's also in a game where atleast 90% of the characters still seem to be just generic toads and generic mario enemies. He's still far more of an exception than a rule. It's like saying "Oh, but Sticker Star does have unique designs, what about the Mariachi Guys!" Yea, they are awesome, they are also literally the only unique characters/designs in that game I can think of.
He is an exception and it's not ok and by no means am I justifying the fact that there are an overwhelming number of Toads in the most recent Paper Mario titles where there used to be Merlons and Piantas and ... those dog(?) guys. My entire point has been to use him an example of how they modified existing characters to appear unique, along with explorer Toad and the craftsman Toad, which is a direct contradiction to the idea that Nintendo has a ****ing council of elders that judges what happens in a Mario RPG title.

People are getting up in arms over this concept of a shadow organization within Nintendo that maintains the sterile Mario environment when we have seen time and time again that Nintendo isn't afraid to put new characters into the games and in this specific situation, Tanabe was not afraid to redesign a Toad. I am trying to spell it out that in the worst case scenario, this is a weak excuse by a man who just wants to pump out a game quickly and meet deadlines with no issue.
 
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pinshadow

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He is an exception and it's not ok and by no means am I justifying the fact that there are an overwhelming number of Toads in the most recent Paper Mario titles where there used to be Merlons and Piantas and ... those dog(?) guys. My entire point has been to use him an example of how they modified existing characters to appear unique, along with explorer Toad and the craftsman Toad, which is a direct contradiction to the idea that Nintendo has a ****ing council of elders that judges what happens in a Mario RPG title.

People are getting up in arms over this concept of a shadow organization within Nintendo that maintains the sterile Mario environment when we have seen time and time again that Nintendo isn't afraid to put new characters into the games and in this specific situation, Tanabe was not afraid to redesign a Toad. I am trying to spell it out that in the worst case scenario, this is a weak excuse by a man who just wants to pump out a game quickly and meet deadlines with no issue.
It's not a redesign though, it's literally a Toad in a different outfit, which seems to be the exact limit of these new Paper Mario games. It's like saying Mario's Tennis outfit in Aces is a redesign. All I'm saying is, regardless of how much I dislike Tanabe personally as well, this whole idea of Nintendo trying to sterilize the core Mario brand is nothing new.
 
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Andwooooo

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Who knew all it would take was a clumsily worded GameStop video to force this place to put the pedal to the medal, aye?
 

TheCJBrine

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I’m beginning to question the Quality Assurance team idea due to stuff like this:
1594929919369.png


While yes, they're basically the same generic enemies with some accessories/different outfits, if you think about it, some past characters such as Goombario, Koops and Kooper aren't much different albeit they were made more unique (and koopas in PM64 did get some unique facial shapes and colors, and Goombario had unique teeth), so idk, maybe it is just Tanabe and maybe Miyamoto being hard on them for some dumb reason? Maybe Waluigi not appearing outside of spinoffs is just due to a lack of ideas for a good game to use him in, a fear of risks, or a general lack of ideas for how he could appear and make sense in any mainline game?

But if the insider dude knew his stuff, being a credible person, then maybe it's true...idk. Maybe it doesn't matter, since even if it's not a whole team it's probably still Miyamoto at least, just giving the main Mario team and Smash Bros. more freedom...heck, sucks we don't even get these characters in the sports/party/kart spinoffs...

And, maybe these aren't really as comparable to Kooper and Koops, idk...Kooper does have a unique color, and Koops has a very unique outfit and stuff, and of course, there were still plenty of unique Toad-based characters and others, so...
 
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D

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It's not a redesign though, it's literally a Toad in a different outfit, which seems to be the exact limit of these new Paper Mario games. It's like saying Mario's Tennis outfit in Aces is a redesign. All I'm saying is, regardless of how much I dislike Tanabe personally as well, this whole idea of Nintendo trying to sterilize the core Mario brand is nothing new.
I'm just trying to wrap my brain around where the disconnect is. Paper Mario partner characters are literally generic mooks in fancier colors or fancier clothes. It isn't a "redesign", but they did it before Sticker Star and are doing it again... so what Tanabe said about not being able to "redesign" characters is horse ****. I already put in my two cents about why they want to keep things stylistically accurate in Mario games and that's really the extent of my ability to give a **** about it.
 

MonkeyDLenny

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Not to beat a stomped goomba but, I was out shopping for a new cable for my pro-controller and Target failed me so I went to GameStop. Lo and behold, I caught the video; it's in-store across the board.

So taking it down from YouTube would barely dent the damage done if this is indeed a legitimate leak

 

Polarthief

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EarlTamm

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Or...get ready for it.
It's a Crossover of Dragon Quest and Mario, and Geno and Mallow are in this grey area?
Plus, Geno and Mallow is more associated with Final Fantasy than Dragon Quest, as they were made by Square pre Square Enix.
 

Powerman293

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Not to beat a stomped goomba but, I was out shopping for a new cable for my pro-controller and Target failed me so I went to GameStop. Lo and behold, I caught the video; it's in-store across the board.

So taking it down from YouTube would barely dent the damage done if this is indeed a legitimate leak


It's kind of incredible though that Geno is getting any mainstream recognition AT ALL.

Having his name mentioned in Gamestops around the U.S. is far better than any mainstream popularity outside the internet he's had... ever maybe?

Plus, I think your typical Gamestop buyer isn't putting two and two together so this may not be seen as a big deal for Nintendo if it is or isn't legit.
 

MrJudd

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See, this is my problem with Tanabe taking the reigns over Paper Mario. There's so much that can already be done with just the normal version of the Marioverse, but they always choose to go with the blandest version possible. And I don't think this "Mario committee" is responsible for the current state of Paper Mario:
  • Mario & Luigi: Dream Team came out one year after Sticker Star and had a plethora of original characters, plus they we're even able to get returning characters from other games in the series, such as Kyle Koopa, Popple, Broque Monseuir and even more: how come then that they aren't able to do the same?
  • Super Mario Odyssey was able to expand the characters and world in an insane amount of ways and with some pretty out there designs, even for 3D Mario standards. They even decided to bring back some old nods in Mario history, even tying in Donkey Kong references all over New Donk City (this city alone is already proof of how original they were without any issues).
  • Even if we just get The Origami King, they were able to give costumes to characters and still decided to keep things as bland as possible. Not only that, but they have references to the other games, but keep in the most uninteresting stuff possible.
Two important details that I don't see brought up a whole lot:
  • When a 3rd party makes a Mario Game, they are able to get away with far more stuff than Nintendo's own studios (see Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle and all of the Rabbid Versions of Mario Characters), so getting a return to Square's Mario RPG already goes a long way in that regard.
  • We're having a generational shift at Nintendo right now, so it's up for the new generation to decide which route Mario will take. Plus, Miyamoto already is stepping down from bigger projects, so we don't have to worry about that as well.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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I’m beginning to question the Quality Assurance team idea due to stuff like this:
View attachment 278733

While yes, they're basically the same generic enemies with some accessories/different outfits, if you think about it, some past characters such as Goombario, Koops and Kooper aren't much different albeit they were made more unique (and koopas in PM64 did get some unique facial shapes and colors, and Goombario had unique teeth), so idk, maybe it is just Tanabe and maybe Miyamoto being hard on them for some dumb reason? Maybe Waluigi not appearing outside of spinoffs is just due to a lack of ideas for a good game to use him in, a fear of risks, or a general lack of ideas for how he could appear and make sense in any mainline game?

But if the insider dude knew his stuff, being a credible person, then maybe it's true...idk. Maybe it doesn't matter, since even if it's not a whole team it's probably still Miyamoto at least, just giving the main Mario team and Smash Bros. more freedom...heck, sucks we don't even get these characters in the sports/party/kart spinoffs...

And, maybe these aren't really as comparable to Kooper and Koops, idk...Kooper does have a unique color, and Koops has a very unique outfit and stuff, and of course, there were still plenty of unique Toad-based characters and others, so...
I'm not knocking the old paper mario games, haven't played em, but these japanese lookin characters really aren't much different than a pirate bob bomb, or goomba with a baseball hat, design wise.
 
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Enigma735

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So, I caught myself up on the Tanabe interview, and I think some people are worrying for nothing. I really don't think this will affect Geno's chances to be in Smash and its not really up for Tanabe to decide. Its up to Sakurai, Nintendo and Square to decide. Sakurai has already stated in the past he wanted to see Geno included himself, and if Nintendo and Square allowed Geno to have a Mii Outfit and a Spirit, then I can't see why he can't physically be an actual character.

While I am not happy that Tanabe is basically implying this will be the roots for Paper Mario going forward, the bright side is that I personally don't think this affects Geno's chances in anyway. Its best to remain optimistic! Geno4Smash :)
 

TheCJBrine

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Another thing: the girl Goomba in Odyssey.

While she only shows up now and then for Goomba-possessing Mario to get a power moon from, and her face is similar to other Goombas, she's still very unique compared to them, being pink, having a hat, blush, and eyelashes.

And as for Waluigi: while he may not make an appearance, if they're really so control freak over him in other games, you'd think they wouldn't even allow the outfit in Odyssey then, since it shows he is indeed part of the main universe. You could also argue they would be this way with Wario, Rosalina, etc. as well, since they've only made like one or two mainline appearances before being crammed back into the spinoffs only (of course for Wario there's still Warioware but still).

However, it is still incredibly disappointing that Miyamoto appears to be irate towards spinoff characters for whatever reason.

I'm starting to doubt these too; I've been told it's easy to get a domain for these kinds of emails, so idk.
 
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Fatmanonice

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EditorMax

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Not to beat a stomped goomba but, I was out shopping for a new cable for my pro-controller and Target failed me so I went to GameStop. Lo and behold, I caught the video; it's in-store across the board.

So taking it down from YouTube would barely dent the damage done if this is indeed a legitimate leak

Honestly dude if they're playing it in stores, I think it's even more likely that it's not a real leak.

I understand the burning urge to jump at anything that proves our boy is gonna be in the game, but we're continuing to invite continued mockery and derision from detractors by gobbling down any simple bait that gets dropped into the proverbial water.

Bide our time and wait for anything really definitive in terms of (hopefully not de)confirmation before we react this passionately. I got excited too when this first got brought up, but upon reflection I realized how important it was to look at things logically, and when one does that, it seems incredibly likely that it was simply bad wording.

Cross your fingers for next week, and if need be, until character 6 is revealed, but until then. don't over-excite yourselves.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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The weird thing is that Paper Mario feels like a franchise still stuck in the late Wii/Wii U era where Nintendo was increasingly out of touch with both the mainstream and hardcore audiences. Mainline Mario games were becoming increasingly formulaic, Zelda was in the midst of reinventing itself, the Mario sports spin-offs were either disappearing or dropping in quality, major franchises were putting out games nobody wanted (Federation Force, Amiibo Festival) and significant emphasis for titles felt entirely on the wrong aspects.

That's why Origami King seems so odd to me. On a system where various franchises have put some of their biggest or best editions (Odyssey, BoTW, Smash Ultimate, Three Houses, Luigi's Mansion 3, New Horizons) OK just screams something out of the previous generation; solid in parts but not really doing anything terribly interesting or particularly engaging.
 

DanganZilla5

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I really don't think this will affect Geno's chances to be in Smash and its not really up for Tanabe to decide. Its up to Sakurai, Nintendo and Square to decide. Sakurai has already stated in the past he wanted to see Geno included himself, and if Nintendo and Square allowed Geno to have a Mii Outfit and a Spirit, then I can't see why he can't physically be an actual character.
This exactly. Don't give up Genobros. There is likely something about this that we don't know about that would make this not seem as bad, after all we don't know the full details. Regardless, there are still things setting up for Geno to be announced.

Mario's 35th Anniversary, Challenger 7 likely was going to be announced at E3 (the same event that revealed Ridley and Banjo), and the possibility of Super Mario RPG coming to the Switch online service.

This is the dream maker game people. Geno's chances are looking better than ever.

Don't forget about that as it has not changed.
 

SeasideKingDumb

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I don't see how the Tanabe thing would impact Smash at all. I feel like due to the Square Enix thing Geno's chances in mainline Mario stuff was really really small anyways. It sucks but Square Enix and Nintendo are very picky with their properties, even the ones that they neglect.

That being said, the GameStop thing is pretty wild. I have no idea the logistics of GameStop getting a hold of Smash Bros information for an advertisement, but since it is an advertisement for Nintendo's own games I think it's a very real possibility that they were given a script for the ad or told the information to try to get fans of Mario RPG to take notice, unaware that all of the announcements got delayed.

I'm gonna take a pessimistic stance and say that it was an honest mistake, but it lines up pretty well with a lot of other theories and Geno always had a great chance given the Project M thing anyway, but this is really just another item on the list.
 

MattX20

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Man, we're almost just 15 pages away from 3000 now. To think just a few days ago we would be lucky to just reach 2950
 

Let Geno Smash

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