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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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waterhasataste

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I'm so bummed that the games I grew up on are being stifled creatively. I was always drawn to the Mario RPGs because of how unique they were in comparison to the mainline games. The fact that we may never see another Mario RPG with unique characters again is disappointing

No exaggeration, I feel like Geno in Smash is really the last hope for Mario RPGs. Let's hope Nintendo was willing to make an exception here
 

vivala

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Time to be that guy and tell everyone to play Bug Fables. Even if you're hyped for Origami King, even if Nintendo had been cranking out banger TTYD sequels all this time, I'd still recommend the heck out of this game! The main trio is genuinely my favorite party in any game by a long shot. TTYD's partners? Get out of here! Team Snakemouth is more charming than them by leaps and bounds!
 

MisterMike

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So apparently something interesting came up in regards to Paper Mario and it's characters. https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/paper-mario-origami-king/.

TL;DR: IS isn't allowed to make unique characters out of already established characters in the Mario Setting (like Goombario or Goombella), and while they can make wholly new characters that don't borrow design elements from the Mario Universe (Origami twins or stationery bosses); they can't keep on reusing them in the future (they're forced to be one offs).

And apparently this isn't just Nintendo controlling Paper Mario really hard either. According to this comment by a deleted insider at resetera from back in 2018 (this was made in a topic where people were wondering why Waluigi isn't in WarioWare).



Here's the truth:

Nintendo has a quality assurance team whose goal is to make sure that all of the characters and worlds stay consistent. It was established after the early Wii era...people like Miyamoto noticed around 2009-ish that Nintendo contractors like Camelot / Alphadream / Intelligent Systems were getting a little too liberal with their interpretations of the Mario IP...so now they watch over everything and establish standards.

It's this team that prevents Waluigi from appearing outside of sports games.



It's pretty much everything related to the Mario IP. AKA it's likely that this team also decides which Mario characters are allowed into Smash as spirits, mii costumes, assist trophies, and fighters. And considering that they're still being reluctant with allowing unique characters to return in future entries or giving them bigger roles in the rest of the Mario IP; I won't lie when I say it makes me a little hesitant on Geno's chances, so far every playable Mario character has had an appearance in multiple different mainline Mario games, so that may be the team's criteria for who gets to be playable or not. Waluigi for example is entirely relegated to spin-offs.

Hopefully Sakurai manages to convince this Mario IP team to let him add characters like Geno or Waluigi as playable characters this time, and maybe they end up seeing how much unique characters matter a lot to people and bring things like partners back.
Look, we've discussed this to death already, it's just another mark on the "may or may not be real" list of things Geno has going for him, and unless something changes with it there's really not much else to talk about.

On an unrelated note. in case you haven't seen it yet, theres a new interview related in Origami King. And OOOOOH BOY, this might actually be WORSE than what we learned in the infamous 2012 interviews for Sticker Star (I think those were through Iwata Asks?).
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/paper-mario-origami-king/

  • How do you make sure the story appeals to a broad audience? And what challenges does existing within the Mario franchise present to your writers?
Tanabe: In Super Paper Mario, the elaborate story led the game away from the Mario universe, so since Paper Mario: Sticker Star I’ve refrained from using stories that are too complicated. Personally, though, I like games with stories. During the production of The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, we made use of a system for character settings and real conversations in order to build the story, which was a first for a game in a series. (I also wrote the text for this game.)
  • Mario is famous for its iconic cast of villains. Can you talk about the new villain in this game and how you design a character to stand alongside all-time greats like Bowser and Kamek?
Tanabe: Since Paper Mario: Sticker Star, it’s no longer possible to modify Mario characters or to create original characters that touch on the Mario universe. That means that if we aren’t using Mario characters for bosses, we need to create original characters with designs that don’t involve the Mario universe at all, like we’ve done with Olly and the stationery bosses.



Well, it certainly explains a lot, doesn't it. And before you ask, this doesn't seem like something that's JUST being applied to Paper Mario, in fact it actually explains some weird things in other games.
View attachment 278703
Remember all the weird inconsistencies in the changes for SuperStar Saga? You actually look and the sprites that are actually changed or redesigned seem to only be characters/enemies specifcally connected to the main Mario World and not the Bean-Bean Kingdom. (this includes changing all the unique Toads in Little Fungitown to generic ones which isn't shown here)

But what about Odyssey? Well, that game completely distances itself from the Mushroom Kingdom entirely, so it's allowed to do weirder stuff I guess. Also it's the main Mario team, they probably have more leeway. Either way, it's completely infuriating and I want to slap Miyamoto across the face because of it.
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, I can totally understand why they'd be so against modifying existing Mario characters to make new ones. If you're a popular enough brand, having a consistent image that you regularly maintain can work wonders in keeping your brand simple and focused.

A good case study for how this can go awry is with the Sonic series. It's no secret that there's a lot of division within the Sonic fandom on a whole host of different aspects. Some fans prefer the 2D series of games to the newer ones, some prefer the 3D Adventure era games, and some prefer the more recent boost games. Some fans enjoy having more and more new characters with every game, some fans don't, and some fans just want to stick with the characters from the classic games. Some fans like the simple stories of the earlier games, some like the more serious tone that games like Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Forces had, and some like the more lighthearted and self aware tone of games like Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations.

I could go on, but you get the point. Just about every aspect of the Sonic series, from the characters, the worlds, the tone, the gameplay, the lore, the voice actiong (oh GOD the voice acting), or even Sonic's damned eye color, has it fans and detractors. As a result of Sonic Team constantly reinventing Sonic with each game in an attempt to find out what works, it's left the fanbase very divided on what the Sonic brand should be going forward. No one can confidently agree on what Sonic is aside from the idea that he's blue and runs fast, and even that is regularly contested by some.

Going back to Mario, there were a lot of weird things being done with the series prior to 2009. Plenty of new characters and species being invented, plenty of new world being added to the mythos. Hell, accoridng to Mario Tennis there are normal human characters running around the Mushroom Kingdom. By adding new things like that, you begin to devalue the normal aspects of the Mario world. I mean, what makes the Mushroom Kingdom so different from other places when you have numerous humans running around? By limiting the kinds things developers can do with the core characters, worlds, settings, etc., the Mario series can keep it's unique identity and strengthen it's brand.

That being said, I vehemently disagree with this practice with regards to the Mario RPGs for several reasons: Firstly, Paper Mario isn't the core Mario brand, there's no confusion from consumers that TTYD isn't separate from Super Mario 64. It's it's own self-contained subseries that doesn't at all reflect on the main series. As such, being able to modify the existing Mario world to make this new, similar world should be totally fine. Second, the variations of the different Mushroom Kingdom species are not only one of the defining aspects of this subseries, it's practically a neccesity in terms of game design.

If all of the characters you encounter in a world look exactly the same, there's little reason to care about any of them. It doesn't matter how much you try to characterize a single Toad, it's still just a Toad, one in a long line of Toads that are virtually indistingushable from one another. It's unrealistic in terms of a living, breathing world for every single organic creature of a species to look identical to eachother, down to the very clothes they wear. You're telling me that most Toads never wear dresses or jewelry, or even a simple goddamn hat? None of them have different skin tones or spot patterns on their caps? Even real world mushrooms that otherwise look nearly identical have at least a little variance between eachother. It also makes sidequests a ***** when you have to look for a specific Toad out of a village of 25-40 who all look the exact same.

And thirdly, Paper Mario is an RPG series with playtimes that will run you into the 20-30 hour range. Having each village or city in your game occupied with the same generic character over and over gets monotonous very quickly. This is especially egregeous when you compare this series to newer RPGs released today that are perfectly capable of making each and every NPC in their games unique. Breath of the Wild was able to make every single Zora, Goron, Rito, Gerudo, Shiekah, and Hylian look visually distinct from eachother. Hell, 64 and TTYD were able to do this back in the late 90s/early 2000s, so why not do it in these new games?
 
D

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Tbh, I don’t really care about the Mario series that much. I’m more of a Pokémon guy. I played some Mario games like DS, Kart 8, Odyssey, Wii U, Mario Maker 2, 3D World, NES, and Mario RPG. That’s pretty much it. Some of these games I never bothered to finish. My history with Mario is kinda limited. Geno is my favorite Mario character out of them all. I would buy Mario Kart 9 instantly just because Geno is playable. I really hope Nintendo adds Geno and consider making SMRPG series continue.
 
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TriggerX

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Personally I don't see how this info necessarily affects Geno. At the end of the day he is a completely original character that isn't even owned by Nintendo. Its not the same as some of the paper mario allies they've mentioned in my opinion.

Geno probably hasn't appeared in new games since SMRPG because Nintendo has moved on and has doubts about paying licensing fees to square for use of the property. Same reason why his cameo was probably removed from M&L SS, I imagine the cost isnt worth it in their eyes,
If anything I don't think this piece of information affects his chances in any negative way.
 

Andwooooo

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Can anyone give a TL;DW review on the Sakurai video that just got uploaded?

Also! Less than four days until Geno officially gets revealed, bro-fos! Who's excited?
 

TheCJBrine

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Yeah I don’t think this effects Geno’s chances too much; if the quality assurance team also gets irate about Waluigi and Daisy, well, look at their positions in Smash, then tell me Geno has no chance with a straight face.
 
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OptimisticStrifer

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The people who don't like the paper aspect of paper mario being prominent confuse the hell out of me tbh. Now I've only played super paper mario, and some people consider that the downfall or whatever, but the paper element was pretty prominent and that just added to the charm tbh. I understand the complaints about more generic characters I guess, but that has nothing to do with the paper element being played up.

Also not to be cynical but I think whether she leaked Geno or made a flub in her wording, she prolly still will get in trouble. Neither outcome is particularly good for gamestop. They either leaked it or got a bunch of peoples hope's up.
 

Spatulo

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Sakurai got four Dragon Quest heroes to not only appear in a game together but fight

In a game with Cloud

Literally nothing can stop this man from getting a character he wants.
 

StarLight42

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I don't quite get what you're pointing out with the M&L changes... Very little actually changed, aside from the artstyle and one or two small things? Like that obvious White Mage guy getting changed... I think we can wrap our brains around why that happened. The most outlandish one is what I assume to be the replacement of the robot dog with a mechakoopa? I get being upset over that one.

There's a lot about modern Mario that comes off to me as "sanitized", and that's not necessarily bad, because it's important to have a style guide and stick to it, especially when you're moving into uncharted territory like potentially letting indie companies work with your IPs. We're dealing with a franchise worth tens of billions and the last thing the owner of that property would want is some new developers or even just a team of young bloods turning it on its head. I think this is a big reason that we see things like standardized Hammer Bro or Koopa designs - I mean, least we forget, there was a time that according to Mario artwork, a Koopa walked on all fours, and the sprites reflected as much, until all of a sudden they were upright in Super Mario World... until you kicked them out of their shells and they walk either on all fours again, or so hunched over there's virtually no difference. Avoiding those inconsistencies is important.

I agree that it's disheartening to see the Hammer Bro or the Koopa have the run-of-the-mill design every time, but that doesn't preclude the possibility to use the same body type and recolor the character, or even give them some accessories to set them apart. We've seen Mario Odyssey put a hat on a Koopa (and a Goomba... and everyone else!), there's just a desire to keep things straight so that in the future, everyone knows which character they're looking at and no one has to second guess simplistic things. Ultimately, it's a franchise for the whole family but further, a game for children, and children are going to want to try and know what species their favorite character is, and if they can't figure it out, mom and dad will have to tell them.

But more importantly, look at how all of the original characters didn't suffer a redesign, or at least not much of one outside of the sprites being a different level of quality and the game being at a slightly different angle. There's nothing stopping them from making original characters, reusing original characters, etc. I totally understand that it's depressing to see another Paper Mario game come and go with nothing in the way of partners, no RPG mechanics and none of the strange and fantastic Paper Mario NPCs outside of toads and generic Bowser minions, but all the hope isn't lost and if you're super hung up on Tanabe's words, explain how this smug looking ************ happened:
View attachment 278710
im ngl man. I don’t see an interesting character. I see a red Toad with a jacket. They can (and have) done so much better
 

pinshadow

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Paper Mario is trending on twitter over this interview right now, jesus christ. It's not even just the character bit, everything about the interview from "big story too complicated" to "we listen to fans after each game" to this weird idea that they seem to think of the old games as "too complex" when the entire point was being a more streamlined RPG is just. UHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGG.
I don't quite get what you're pointing out with the M&L changes... Very little actually changed, aside from the artstyle and one or two small things? Like that obvious White Mage guy getting changed... I think we can wrap our brains around why that happened. The most outlandish one is what I assume to be the replacement of the robot dog with a mechakoopa? I get being upset over that one.

There's a lot about modern Mario that comes off to me as "sanitized", and that's not necessarily bad, because it's important to have a style guide and stick to it, especially when you're moving into uncharted territory like potentially letting indie companies work with your IPs. We're dealing with a franchise worth tens of billions and the last thing the owner of that property would want is some new developers or even just a team of young bloods turning it on its head. I think this is a big reason that we see things like standardized Hammer Bro or Koopa designs - I mean, least we forget, there was a time that according to Mario artwork, a Koopa walked on all fours, and the sprites reflected as much, until all of a sudden they were upright in Super Mario World... until you kicked them out of their shells and they walk either on all fours again, or so hunched over there's virtually no difference. Avoiding those inconsistencies is important.

I agree that it's disheartening to see the Hammer Bro or the Koopa have the run-of-the-mill design every time, but that doesn't preclude the possibility to use the same body type and recolor the character, or even give them some accessories to set them apart. We've seen Mario Odyssey put a hat on a Koopa (and a Goomba... and everyone else!), there's just a desire to keep things straight so that in the future, everyone knows which character they're looking at and no one has to second guess simplistic things. Ultimately, it's a franchise for the whole family but further, a game for children, and children are going to want to try and know what species their favorite character is, and if they can't figure it out, mom and dad will have to tell them.

But more importantly, look at how all of the original characters didn't suffer a redesign, or at least not much of one outside of the sprites being a different level of quality and the game being at a slightly different angle. There's nothing stopping them from making original characters, reusing original characters, etc. I totally understand that it's depressing to see another Paper Mario game come and go with nothing in the way of partners, no RPG mechanics and none of the strange and fantastic Paper Mario NPCs outside of toads and generic Bowser minions, but all the hope isn't lost and if you're super hung up on Tanabe's words, explain how this smug looking ************ happened:
View attachment 278710

Clearly, there's some nuance to what he said, maybe something lost in translation or not easily understood. There's a very clear message that Tanabe doesn't like that the story ends up making the game feel like it isn't Mario anymore, so it could be safe to say he's simply holding himself/his team back from doing too much because he's afraid that it'll start to rob from what he views as Mario's simplistic charm. I can't speak for the guy, I'm just taking a guess.

I like to blame Miyamoto as much as the next guy, but let's be real, the only crimes he's committed have been forcing motion controls into everything he touches. If there's any water to be held by the rumor that Nintendo's going to be more open with their IPs, that thought isn't congruent with a world where they don't allow original Mario characters to be used in a Mario game. Just my two cents on the matter and I hope that this kind of rationalization helps people understand it isn't all doom and gloom for the future of Mario RPGs.
It's a toad wearing a costume, that seems to be allowed. Anything beyond that? NOPE CAN'T HAVE THAT IN MY MARIO.

My point in bringing up SuperStar Saga isn't that "changes bad", it's how the changes they did make seem intent on sterilizing the generic Mario cast but leaving everything else alone.
 
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TriggerX

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Sakurai got four Dragon Quest heroes to not only appear in a game together but fight

In a game with Cloud

Literally nothing can stop this man from getting a character he wants.
Except maybe Nintendo.

He's definitely put together one of the most ambitious cross over titles we've seen thus far, but I do feel that the biggest hurdle he has is Nintendo itself.
I don't think there are too many companies who would turn down the chance for their character to be added to the smash roster unless they just flat out did not like the deal Nintendo presented.
 

Spatulo

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im ngl man. I don’t see an interesting character. I see a red Toad with a jacket. They can (and have) done so much better
I think the point he’s trying to make is that they’re still trying, but the limitations of the curation of the brand is still holding them back. Looking at some of the concept art for Color Splash, it seems like they want to use more unique character design but they genuinely aren’t allowed to by the people in charge of the Mario brand.
 

Powerman293

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Except maybe Nintendo.

He's definitely put together one of the most ambitious cross over titles we've seen thus far, but I do feel that the biggest hurdle he has is Nintendo itself.
I don't think there are too many companies who would turn down the chance for their character to be added to the smash roster unless they just flat out did not like the deal Nintendo presented.
My biggest fear with this pass is that the Nintendo execs know this is their last chance to cash in before Sakurai is gone, so they're gonna stuff as many shill characters in as possible before they have to move on from Smash for awhile.
 

Tree Gelbman

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Mario in general seems to have an issue with new characters and it baffles me.

I'm shocked Toadette has started getting use. I'm shocked they still acknowledge Rosalina beyond the Galaxy games. It's not just the RPG games the mainline games have been doing this **** too.

Hey, everyone remember Toadsworth? Where's the old guy right now?
 

Slime Scholar

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The people who don't like the paper aspect of paper mario being prominent confuse the hell out of me tbh. Now I've only played super paper mario, and some people consider that the downfall or whatever, but the paper element was pretty prominent and that just added to the charm tbh. I understand the complaints about more generic characters I guess, but that has nothing to do with the paper element being played up.
The problem people have with the paper gimmick being overemphasized is that the first two games in the series weren't about paper at all. It literally didn't factor into the story or world. It was essentially an excuse to have a sprite-based RPG in the era of 3D games, and was contextualized by the story taking place inside a pop-up book.

Instead, the focus was on showing a new side of Mario's world and fleshing it out with interesting characters and locales. It didn't feel like its own separate paper universe and was, IMO a worthy successor to Super Mario RPG.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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Mario in general seems to have an issue with new characters and it baffles me.

I'm shocked Toadette has started getting use. I'm shocked they still acknowledge Rosalina beyond the Galaxy games. It's not just the RPG games the mainline games have been doing this **** too.

Hey, everyone remember Toadsworth? Where's the old guy right now?
Toadsworth died. I hate to be the barer of bad news.
 

pinshadow

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You know the most annoying part about this for me? This is just confirmation of EXACTLY how I thought about Nintendo's relationship with the RPG's 3 months ago before Origami King was even announced.


Mario though? That's more like this.
View attachment 269989

Yes, Geno is co-owned by Square, and while I'm sure that would be an issue regardless, Nintendo just seems to have zero interest in using anything in the Mario RPG's for, well, really anything. They might as well all be owned by a different company like SMRPG given how Nintendo acts like they don't exist. I've gone over this before but Nintendo barely acts like Luigi's Mansion and Donkey Kong Country are attatched to Mario, hell even stuff like the Mario Land games and Sunshine are inconsistent on whether Nintendo recognizes they exist. I'm still shocked they chose to make Rosalina more or less a permanent cast member given their track record. Even if Nintendo owned Super Mario RPG, I'm still 99% sure we'd be in more or less the same situation we are in now. And Square sure as hell wants nothing to really do with it, even if getting one remix in Fortune Street is still more awknowledgment than this game has gotten from Nintendo sans Smash Bros and the Geno puppet, which was in 2003 and got removed in the remake.

So Nintendo wants nothing to do with Mario RPG, and the entire franchise as a whole really, including making ACTUAL new games (and don't bring up the leak, that ain't official yet and I don't trust them for a second after Color Splash), and Square doesn't care either, so where does that leave us? Well, the one place that, at the very least, seems to realize that, yep! That game sure did happen! Smash Bros. is honestly the only place I can ever see Geno, or anything from SMRPG, or anything from the franchise at this point really, getting recognized as something that happened, something that people love, something that people want back. We've somehow reached the point where I think it's more likely for Nintendo to go "Oh, Smash fans REALLY want Geno, let's put him in the game", than for them to go "OH, people love the Mario RPG's and want us to make more of them and use these characters". That's what stuff like Color Splash has taught me.
And yea, I'm STILL right here. I love Super Mario RPG to death, top 5 favorite games for sure, and I think Geno has plenty of potential in Smash, but above all else, I just want this franchise to get SOMETHING. Some kind of real acknowledgment from ANYONE at Nintendo that "YEP, PEOPLE LIKE THESE GAMES AND THESE CHARACTERS". I legitimately think Sakurai/Square/Nintendo choosing to listen to SMASH fans and putting Geno in Smash is the only chance for ANYTHING at this point regarding these games. It's like how I felt about K.Rool and the Kremlings (who were pretty much removed from the DK franchise because Miyamoto and Tanabe didn't think people liked them and wanted Retro to create new villains) where the only way to get Nintendo to listen was to convince them through Smash that people wanted them back, and it WORKED. But atleast with Donkey Kong the games were still fantastic. Now with the RPG's instead Alphadream is dead and Paper Mario is never getting fixed so it feels more like a "jesus christ atleast send them off with something good" than any hope of having them fix anything.
 
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Icewolff92

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So apparently something interesting came up in regards to Paper Mario and it's characters. https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/paper-mario-origami-king/.

TL;DR: IS isn't allowed to make unique characters out of already established characters in the Mario Setting (like Goombario or Goombella), and while they can make wholly new characters that don't borrow design elements from the Mario Universe (Origami twins or stationery bosses); they can't keep on reusing them in the future (they're forced to be one offs).

And apparently this isn't just Nintendo controlling Paper Mario really hard either. According to this comment by a deleted insider at resetera from back in 2018 (this was made in a topic where people were wondering why Waluigi isn't in WarioWare).



Here's the truth:

Nintendo has a quality assurance team whose goal is to make sure that all of the characters and worlds stay consistent. It was established after the early Wii era...people like Miyamoto noticed around 2009-ish that Nintendo contractors like Camelot / Alphadream / Intelligent Systems were getting a little too liberal with their interpretations of the Mario IP...so now they watch over everything and establish standards.

It's this team that prevents Waluigi from appearing outside of sports games.



It's pretty much everything related to the Mario IP. AKA it's likely that this team also decides which Mario characters are allowed into Smash as spirits, mii costumes, assist trophies, and fighters. And considering that they're still being reluctant with allowing unique characters to return in future entries or giving them bigger roles in the rest of the Mario IP; I won't lie when I say it makes me a little hesitant on Geno's chances, so far every playable Mario character has had an appearance in multiple different mainline Mario games, so that may be the team's criteria for who gets to be playable or not. Waluigi for example is entirely relegated to spin-offs.

Hopefully Sakurai manages to convince this Mario IP team to let him add characters like Geno or Waluigi as playable characters this time, and maybe they end up seeing how much unique characters matter a lot to people and bring things like unique NPC/partner designs back.
This can.... explain a lot when it comes to Sticker Star... For **** sake Nintendo, I love you to pieces, but this is just ridicolus
 

Fenriraga

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Yeah that article... makes me insanely livid.

Pretty sure I've gone on this tangent many times here, but I'll do it again.

I started writing as a kid because of TTYD and SPM. I got my Bachalors' Degree in writing for entertainment because of TTYD and SPM. They're what inspired me to go borrow my cousin's SNES because I remembered they had a game that felt like Paper Mario, and we all know that led me here.

I have mild autism and played TTYD in elementary school. I had no problems keeping track of EXP, badges. action commands, etc. Because Paper Mario made them all easy to handle. Even with its "bigger numbers", Mario RPG was absolutely doable.

Paper Mario, M&L and RPG as a whole are what eventually inspired my RPG splurge, in which I played so many timeless games that I may have otherwise skipped.

We all know plenty of Mario games, spinoff or otherwise, have introduced new characters/modifications.

And to see these elements brushed aside so damn casually... it makes me furious. It really, really does.

Paper Mario is allowed to be whatever it wants. I've come to accept that. But DO NOT feed me these absolutely bull**** excuses as to why things changed, Tanabe.

I really do hope Geno makes it. He's the LAST BIT OF PROOF to Nintendo that, yes, we do love it when Mario RPGs are allowed freedom, so much so that we brought back a character from a one-time spinoff rotting away in the broom closet of one of the most hard to work with companies in gaming, because he left that big of an impact on us. If not even as proof, then at least as a final hurrah.
 
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xpnc

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Guys but i have a question, do you think this interview dismiss geno's chances?
I don't know why so many people are suddenly dejected by the news that Nintendo doesn't want spin-off characters in their mainline Mario games. Like obviously it sucks that there will probably never be a Waluigi game but for our purposes Smash is not a mainline Mario game so it doesn't really matter. "Appearances" are more than just playable characters. If they were so hellbent on preventing the stain of NIH Waluigi/Geno/whatever from appearing in Smash they wouldn't have approved the ATs/Spirits/whatever, especially considering that until very recently Nintendo considered ATs to be "almost as good" as being playable
 

Droodle

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TFW Disney with KH is somehow more open to creative choices compared to Nintendo with Paper Mario/non-EPD Mario IP.

Guys but i have a question, do you think this interview dismiss geno's chances?
Sakurai/Nintendo has already done impossible things like get the rights for Dragon Quest from Square-Enix and the composer. So while it does throw me off on his chances, I would still say he's in the realm of possibility. Nintendo didn't completely lock him out of SMash 4 or Ultimate, after all. But who knows if they think a fighter is crossing the line or not.

Now it just depends if Sakurai can beat the final boss.
Who knew Nintendo was secretly the real final boss all along. Talk about a plot twist.
 
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Paraspikey

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Guys but i have a question, do you think this interview dismiss geno's chances?
No, it doesn't.
Geno is from Square Enix and is highly requested and has been for years, this will be his purpose in Smash, to grant a wish.

Tanabe's bad handles on Paper Mario does not even come close to effecting Geno's chances.
I've been seeing it all day, it makes no sense.
 
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OptimisticStrifer

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The problem people have with the paper gimmick being overemphasized is that the first two games in the series weren't about paper at all. It literally didn't factor into the story or world. It was essentially an excuse to have a sprite-based RPG in the era of 3D games, and was contextualized by the story taking place inside a pop-up book.

Instead, the focus was on showing a new side of Mario's world and fleshing it out with interesting characters and locales. It didn't feel like its own separate paper universe and was, IMO a worthy successor to Super Mario RPG.
Okay I understand it maybe wasnt about that initially but I fail to see why leaning into the paper aspect hurts it in anyways. The poor writing and generic characters are seperate aspects. Sure they leaned on the paper aspect more as the other things went away but that doesnt mean they couldnt play up the paper aspect while still having the engaging plot and unique characters is all I'm saying here.
 

AugustusB

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I don't know why so many people are suddenly dejected by the news that Nintendo doesn't want spin-off characters in their mainline Mario games. Like obviously it sucks that there will probably never be a Waluigi game but for our purposes Smash is not a mainline Mario game so it doesn't really matter. "Appearances" are more than just playable characters. If they were so hellbent on preventing the stain of NIH Waluigi/Geno/whatever from appearing in Smash they wouldn't have approved the ATs/Spirits/whatever, especially considering that until very recently Nintendo considered ATs to be "almost as good" as being playable
Thank you! Geno in a mainline game? Yeah, probably bad. Geno in Smash/Party game? Not really. The fact he is also a 3rd party is also such a grey area is incredible.
 

Slime Scholar

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Guys but i have a question, do you think this interview dismiss geno's chances?
Nah, not really. Smash is (probably) a different beast entirely. And even then, the stipulation regarding characters seems to be focused on modifying existing Mario designs, like toads, goombas, shy guys, etc. rather than the creation completely original ones (like Olivia, or Geno).

It probably does hurt the chances of them revisiting Mario RPG itself in any capacity beyond re-releasing it though.
 

RedMachine123

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Yeah, now that I think about it Nintendo allowed the Geno Mii costume in Smash 4 so I guess they would allow Geno as a fighter too.

Oh and by the way:

20200716_204554.jpg
 

waterhasataste

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Guys but i have a question, do you think this interview dismiss geno's chances?
It hurts his chances slightly I feel but not entirely. In contrast to the Paper Mario series, Smash Bros Ultimate is the definition of fan service. A lot of the roster is based on Fan Demand. They aren't run by the same people and I think with how big Smash is, it's not to hard for Nintendo/Sakurai to get a character if they asked. Nintendo's the boss after all, they can easily allow Geno to get in, even if some of the people who work on the Mario committee may disagree. It basically boils down to if Nintendo would ask for Geno in the first place. Seeing how they picked Banjo, it's not super unlikely
 
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