Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MattX20]

It's Waluigi and I'll do the write up in his thread hopefully later today. Yes, Lloyd got a huge boost but that shouldn't surprise anyone. It's been hard implied literally since 2015 that if Namco got another rep, it would be Tales or Tekken and Heihachi, easily the most iconic Tekken character is now Mii costumed. Beyond that, it's stuff I've beaten to death that I regularly brought up when I theorized Lloyd was 5: the Tales team practically liquidated its top developers to help with Smash 4 and Ultimate, Namco is making a big deal about Tales 25th anniversary coming up, Lloyd is one of the few characters that Sakurai has talked positively about that isn't playable yet, the fact that Lloyd has been heard in insider circles since fall 2018, etc. Sure, they could go with another Tales character but the point remains that the door is wide open for a Tales rep and will more than likely happen.

Not to mention your sources also mentioned that Geno was heard a lot too.

 

[Theguy123]

I wanna add something to the speculation of the 7th July being a Geno smash announcement. Just speculating and nothing more. Dunno if this has been brought up

July 7th is also the day of the star festival in japan. wanted to add that to the speculation off the 7th July Geno smash trailer because I thought it was cool and something I haven’t heard anyone bring up

 

[Dorayaki]

If Geno is a "Smash" hit after he gets included in Ultimate, do you think that it would motivate Nintendo to finally buy the SMRPG rights from SE so that they can cash in and start using Geno in spinoffs and maybe Paper Mario as well?

K. Rool's ballot results showed there was a demand for him and we have rumors that suggest he's going to come back in a big way in whatever is coming next for the DK series, so hopefully the same can be done for Geno. And if Nintendo were to just buy the rights to everything, we don't just get Geno, but we also get Mallow and Boshi, among many others. But just imagine those three in Mario Kart 9, or Mario Party 2021, or Mario Strikers Re-Charged?

That's my biggest hope, that giving people a modern-day opportunity to show their love, support and desire for Geno, Geno & More Geno will lead to, well, Geno, Geno and More Geno down the road from Nintendo outside of Smash.

I hate to say it, but KRool is rather the counter example for that. We haven't got any DK/Mario title with KRool participation after his Smash entry really based on your idea. That says Smash bros is never a garuntee for the fighters to get more spotlights outside.

I know most of us here want Geno playable in Smash, but allow me to make the assumption: even if Geno cannot make it in Smash 5, Nintendo should still consider to bring back Geno for more game uses. Even after Smash 4 when Geno failed, that should had happened too. It sounds like without Smash entry Geno would just be valueless, which isn't good IMO.

 

[cmbsfm]

If Geno is a "Smash" hit after he gets included in Ultimate, do you think that it would motivate Nintendo to finally buy the SMRPG rights from SE so that they can cash in and start using Geno in spinoffs and maybe Paper Mario as well?

K. Rool's ballot results showed there was a demand for him and we have rumors that suggest he's going to come back in a big way in whatever is coming next for the DK series, so hopefully the same can be done for Geno. And if Nintendo were to just buy the rights to everything, we don't just get Geno, but we also get Mallow and Boshi, among many others. But just imagine those three in Mario Kart 9, or Mario Party 2021, or Mario Strikers Re-Charged?

That's my biggest hope, that giving people a modern-day opportunity to show their love, support and desire for Geno, Geno & More Geno will lead to, well, Geno, Geno and More Geno down the road from Nintendo outside of Smash.

I think if Square and Nintendo work on another Mario game together he’s likely to return. I remember being upset that Mario Sports Mix didn’t include Geno and Mallow despite being developed by Square Enix. I really enjoyed that game but Geno’s omission was glaring. Square and Nintendo are on good terms so maybe we’ll get another Mario collab from them. Ubisoft did so who knows.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I hate to say it, but KRool is rather the counter example for that. We haven't got any DK/Mario title with KRool participation after his Smash entry really based on your idea. That says Smash bros is never a garuntee for the fighters to get more spotlights outside.

I know most of us here want Geno playable in Smash, but allow me to make the assumption: even if Geno cannot make it in Smash 5, Nintendo should still consider to bring back Geno for more game uses. Or in a different case, even if Geno is gonna be a fighter in Smash 5, that doesn't mean he shouldn't had got some appearances in recent Mario games after Smash 4. Otherwise it sounds as if Geno is valueless without Smash participation, which is totally incorrect.

Retro is taking their time to work on Metroid Prime 4 aka Metroid Prime Forever so if they're working on the next DKC game, we won't see it for a good while. I'm almost certain we won't hear about the next DKC game until Metroid Prime 4 comes out whether Retro is the ones developing it or not. And I bet you a million dollars K. Rool will be in the next game.

 

[domriver]

So if any kind of direct is to be announced for the 7th it would be today? or the 6th as well? who knows....

 

[Theguy123]

So if any kind of direct is to be announced for the 7th it would be today? or the 6th as well? who knows....

wouldn’t think so. It’s the 2nd today so if anything was to be announced it would be on the 6th. I don’t think they’ve ever announced a direct or smash presentation quite a few day’s prior to its release. Only exception is min min which was announced on Friday and then shown on Monday.

 

[Icewolff92]

I see people still say that it has to be 7 with Geno or else he is not in. "rubs face. in frustration concidering, he could be last for what we know"

Retro is taking their time to work on Metroid Prime 4 aka Metroid Prime Forever so if they're working on the next DKC game, we won't see it for a good while. I'm almost certain we won't hear about the next DKC game until Metroid Prime 4 comes out whether Retro is the ones developing it or not. And I bet you a million dollars K. Rool will be in the next game.

They never used King K because they wanted to do "their own thing". I highly doubt Retro Studios is going to add King K in just because of Smash.

The Legacy XP stuff is really interesting and I've learned quite a bit from my own network on the topic. I can't name names or go into specifics but I'll just say that my theorycraft on the topic from months ago was pretty spot on from what I've gathered and the chances of getting at least (Key phrase: AT LEAST) one character from that mod is pretty damn high.

Thank you for bringing up the LEgacy XP stuff. Because that begs the question even more on why they never took down the cacamallow video (that is if cacamallow is real, which I highly doubt at this point... and no even if it's not, it does not mean that Geno won´t get in)

If Geno is a "Smash" hit after he gets included in Ultimate, do you think that it would motivate Nintendo to finally buy the SMRPG rights from SE so that they can cash in and start using Geno in spinoffs and maybe Paper Mario as well?

I highly doubt they would buy them outright. Collaborate and let Square do more with the character? Sure... but not buy right out. I have said it before and I say it again. If Nintendo did not buy Rare when Banjo Kazooie where one of the big hitters with the N64, or them not even trying to get access to the IP from Rare for more games now concidering the massive celebration their inclusion was, there is no way they buy the SMRPG rights.

 

[Paraster]

I recently came across a YouTube video of the Spanish user NewStarfox665 (Strong defender that the Spirits Disconfirmed) a comment that said: "Sakurai said in the Min Min Presentation that all the ARMS characters are protagonists, so apparently only the protagonist of a game can be playable ", clearly wanting to disconfirm Geno (In fact, the user himself admitted it, that he does not want Geno and that he wants NewStarfox665 to make" rules "to disconfirm him)

The thing is also that NewStarfox665 himself answered me too, claiming that "Geno will not be possible, because the DLC characters have been chosen by Nintendo, and he will be interested in other Square-Enix characters"

Don't you hate those users who are closed-minded and who think they know everything?

Even before Min Min, I thought it was pretty clear that the "protagonist first" rule/pattern applied only to a franchise's FIRST representative. (i.e. if Donkey Kong wasn't playable, we wouldn't get Diddy or K. Rool until after he was added.)

 

[AugustusB]

Honestly if Geno is not 7 then I could see him being another. It is just fun to think of a 'what if' scenario. Literally,
-Legend of the 7 Stars.
-7th DLC Fighter.
-would be the 77th fighter on the roster.
-could be revealed on 7/7.
-And that date is the STAR FESTIVAL in Japan

It would just be TO perfect and I am not expecting it.

 

[Theguy123]

If Geno gets in smash is he technically the first ever god in smash since his spirit comes from basically Nintendo’s version of heaven??

 

[RetrogamerMax]

They never used King K because they wanted to do "their own thing". I highly doubt Retro Studios is going to add King K in just because of Smash.

Retro might not, but Nintendo might. Nintendo was surprised with K. Rool's Ballot results and they were overwhelmed from it. Retro wanted to add K. Rool as a secret boss in the Switch port of Tropical Freeze, but was denied because Nintendo didn't allow it. It's obvious K. Rool returning in Smash would strike more thunder so Sakurai called dibs on bringing the krock back from the dead. Here is the source: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/

 

[Cuzeba123]

If Geno gets in smash is he technically the first ever god in smash since his spirit comes from basically Nintendo’s version of heaven??

There's Palutena

 

[Dorayaki]

I highly doubt they would buy them outright. Collaborate and let Square do more with the character? Sure... but not buy right out. I have said it before and I say it again. If Nintendo did not buy Rare when Banjo Kazooie where one of the big hitters with the N64, or them not even trying to get access to the IP from Rare for more games now concidering the massive celebration their inclusion was, there is no way they buy the SMRPG rights.

I agree, it doesn't necessarily mean Nintendo have to buy Banjo even if his franchise isn't in an active status.

I think the message behind Banjo for Smash is more about making partnership with Microsoft, so buying Banjo wouldn't be what Nintendo want to do at this point. More importantly even if Microsoft doesn't have plans for new Banjo game now, they do stil respect this franchsie at least.

The reason why people want NIntendo to take full control of Geno, after all, is that their owner and creator Square Enix isn't passionate about him. However, if Square respect Geno just like Microsoft respect Banjo, Geno would have had a better fame at least.

Retro might not, but Nintendo might. Nintendo was surprised with K. Rool's Ballot results and they were overwhelmed from it. Retro wanted to add K. Rool as a secret boss in the Switch port of Tropical Freeze, but was denied because Nintendo didn't allow it. I

My previous reply also count Mario titles, so that doesn't justify KRool's absence from all NIntendo games. If Dixie can debut in Mario Kart, KRool should definitely be the next.

 

[Theguy123]

There's Palutena

She’s technically a godesss so wouldn’t Geno be the first god???

 

[RetrogamerMax]

My previous reply also count Mario titles, so that doesn't justify KRool's absence from all NIntendo games. If Dixie can debut in Mario Kart, KRool should definitely be the next.

I think it would make sense for K. Rool to return to the DKC franchise before he starts appearing in anymore Mario spin off titles again. He will probably be in Mario Kart 9.

She’s technically a godesss so wouldn’t Geno be the first god???

Just because Geno was a spirit from the heavens that doesn't make him a god. Literally, Geno is more like a guardian angel that came to rescue the Mushroom Kingdoom. I bet Rosalina sent him.

 

[Icewolff92]

The reason why people want NIntendo to take full control of Geno, after all, is that their owner and creator Square Enix isn't passionate about him. However, if Square respect Geno just like Microsoft respect Banjo, Geno would have had a better fame at least.

Not arguing that. All I´m saying is that I can´t see them buy Geno if they are not buying Banjo (which is arguably the bigger IP)

Retro might not, but Nintendo might. Nintendo was surprised with K. Rool's Ballot results and they were overwhelmed from it. Retro wanted to add K. Rool as a secret boss in the Switch port of Tropical Freeze, but was denied because Nintendo didn't allow it. It's obvious K. Rool returning in Smash would strike more thunder so Sakurai called dibs on bringing the krock back from the dead. Here is the source: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/

Nintendo saying no because Smash is one of the most ridiculous statements I have heard in a while.

 

[Lyncario]

She’s technically a godesss so wouldn’t Geno be the first god???

Even then there's still Kirby.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Not arguing that. All I´m saying is that I can´t see them buy Geno if they are not buying Banjo (which is arguably the bigger IP)




Nintendo saying no because Smash is one of the most ridiculous statements I have heard in a while.

How come? Smash is a cash cow for Nintendo and a lot of people find Smash reveals to be the most hyped Nintendo news around. Literally, a there is no better way to bring back a dead popular character from the grave than to put them into Smash Bros. Sakurai brought back Pit, Mega Man, Duck Hunt, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie back from the dead and they all had overwhelming positive reactions from fans.

 

[Theguy123]

Even then there's still Kirby.

Yeah but Kirby’s a normal person/thing that just has insanely godly powers. He doesn’t full on. Come from Nintendo heaven doesn’t he. Correct me if I’m wrong. Haven’t played many Kirby games.

 

[Icewolff92]

How come? Smash is a cash cow for Nintendo and a lot of people find Smash reveals to be the most hyped Nintendo news around. Literally, a there is no better way to bring back a dead popular character from the grave than to put them into Smash Bros. Sakurai brought back Pit, Mega Man, Duck Hunt, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie back from the dead and they all had overwhelming positive reactions from fans.

Because they could easily just have released that port AFTER Smash Bros Ultimates release if it were so necessary for Sakurai to have "first dibs" for the character to return.

 

[Dorayaki]

Duck Hunt, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie

There is still difference between inactive and active franchises. Like said, Smash bros entry doesn't justify KRool's absence from recent games, while Duck's Smash entry without new game can be accepted.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Yeah but Kirby’s a normal person/thing that just has insanely godly powers. He doesn’t full on. Come from Nintendo heaven doesn’t he. Correct me if I’m wrong. Haven’t played many Kirby games.

I think the closest character in the roster we probably have to being a god aside from Palutena is probably Ganondorf. With the Triforce of Power, Ganondorf is immortal and can cause great destruction in the land while also having a unlimited army of the dead per say because of his Triforce of Power.

There is still difference between inactive and active franchises. Like said, Smash bros entry doesn't justify KRool's absence from recent games, while Duck's Smash entry without new game can be accepted.

Because they could easily just have released that port AFTER Smash Bros Ultimates release if it were so necessary for Sakurai to have "first dibs" for the character to return.

Yeah, but you're both missing the point. The best way to bring back a dead popular character is to put them in Smash.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

She’s technically a godesss so wouldn’t Geno be the first god???

Geno is spirit possessing a doll, not a god

 

[Dorayaki]

Yeah, but you're both missing the point. The best way to bring back a dead popular character is to put them in Smash.

It's not like we have Smash entry all the time. Our question is why Nintendo didn't try to insert the characteer in some games before Smash bros 5 project began, or just simultaneously planned them, just like announcing Isabelle for both Smash and New Horizon.

It doesn't have to be a multiple choice question where we can only choose one. In fact, NIntendo can allow the characters to appear in more different occassions if they're really willing to.

 

[MattX20]

Geno is spirit possessing doll, not a god

The closest we have to god-like beings in the Mario universe are the Star Spirits from Paper Mario and Rosalina

 

[Theguy123]

Geno is spirit possessing doll, not a god

yeah but his spirit comes from basically Nintendo’s version of heaven and posses a doll which then has godly powers.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It's not like we have Smash entry all the time. Our question is why Nintendo didn't try to insert the characteer in some games before Smash bros 5 project began, or just simultaneously planned them, just like announcing Isabelle for both Smash and New Horizon.

It doesn't have to be a multiple choice question where we can only choose one. In fact, NIntendo can allow the characters to appear in more different occassions if they're really willing to.

Read this and you'll find your answer about why they didn't use K. Rool for years: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/

It turns out the higher-ups at Nintendo were preventing K. Rool from seeing the light of day until they saw his Ballot results.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

yeah but his spirit comes from basically Nintendo’s version of heaven and posses a doll which then has godly powers.

if we wanna get into semantics, a spirit/angel is mostly send down by a god to do his/her bidding. no one knows who sent Geno down, I mean, he literaly says he serves a higher power, no god would say "I serve a higher power". only subordinates of said power would say that

Thats like Pit saying he is the lord of the land hes from when thats actually Palutena.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, the closest thing that the Mario Universe has to a god/goddess is Rosalina, basically an immortal who flies around the universe and has chubby star children that can turn into any celestial being including black holes and entire galaxies. Let's not forget that, at the end of Super Mario Galaxy, Rosalina basically resets the whole ****in' universe by recreating the Big Bang so that Mario, Peach, and Bowser don't die horribly in a black hole.

 

[Dorayaki]

Read this and you'll find your answer about why they didn't use K. Rool for years:
It turns out the higher-ups at Nintendo were preventing K. Rool from seeing the light of day until they saw his Ballot results.

I know. What I'm saying is a main character needs to have consistent spotlight, so we cannot use that as a reason to claim why Smash bros is the only available provider but other games can't be. It depends more on how Nintendo deal with it.

We didn't know if Nintendo had problem with marketing research, the fact remains that Smash 5 wasn't planned in a time when other game projects didn't exist. Even mobile games like Dr Mario World can keep its running and add characters after the launch.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I know. What I'm saying is a main character needs to have consistent spotlight, so we cannot use that as a reason to claim why Smash bros is the only available provider but other games can't be. It depends more on how Nintendo deal with it.

We didn't know if Nintendo had problem with marketing research, the fact remains that Smash 5 wasn't planned in a time when other game projects didn't exist. Even mobile games like Dr Mario World can keep its running and add characters after the launch.

I still think Smash Bros. is the grandest way to bring back icons from the dead.

 

[MattX20]

Yeah, the closest thing that the Mario Universe has to a god/goddess is Rosalina, basically an immortal who flies around the universe and has chubby star children that can turn into any celestial being including black holes and entire galaxies. Let's not forget that, at the end of Super Mario Galaxy, Rosalina basically resets the whole ****in' universe by recreating the Big Bang so that Mario, Peach, and Bowser don't die horribly in a black hole.

It's why I speculate Geno's reveal trailer would involve her, she might be the "higher authority" he serves

 

[Lyncario]

Yeah but Kirby’s a normal person/thing that just has insanely godly powers. He doesn’t full on. Come from Nintendo heaven doesn’t he. Correct me if I’m wrong. Haven’t played many Kirby games.

Kirby is actualy heavily implied to be an incarnaiton of Void in Star Allies, who is the creator god in Kirby. So yeah, the "Kirby is a God of destruction" memes are kinda canon.

 

[YsDisciple]

You know, after watching a GDQ Paper Mario (N64) speedrun a few years ago, I stuck with the theory that perhaps Twink is the star spirit that possessed the Geno doll (albeit Twink being the parallel of SMRPG's star messenger). Dang... Super Mario multiverse... whew! Some deep stuff.

 

[Deleted member]

If Geno comes to Smash, what would be the title of his trailer?

 

[Firox]

I see people still say that it has to be 7 with Geno or else he is not in. "rubs face. in frustration concidering, he could be last for what we know"

While I agree with you that Geno doesn't HAVE to be #7, I will point out that his chances decrease significantly for every new addition that isn't him. Why?

A) If there's any veracity to Cacomallow, then it would be highly unlikely that Geno and his accompanying Mallow costume would be MIA for up to TWO YEARS from the time of the leak. Granted, the leak could be bogus and have no real weight towards his inclusion, however, I would argue that if ALL of our known costume leaks are fake, then it would reduce Geno's chances down to the same as any other spirit.

B) If FP#2 follows any of the conventions of FP#1, then Geno would be considered the hail mary fan pick, akin to B-K. I doubt that Nintendo would save that for last since they are infamous for going out on a dud. Even if they broke the mold and went out on a complete ball-buster, I would think someone like Master Chief or Doomslayer would fit that slot better.

C) Simple statistics. Every slot that isn't Geno can only hurt his chances at worst or keep them the same at best. For example, if the next 4 characters are Gen 8 Pokerep, Rex, Lloyd and Dixie (hypothetically of course), that would mean that Geno is competing against Shantae, Rayman, Crash, Doomslayer, Dante, etc. etc. etc. and the entire cast of SE for the last spot. Not very good odds all things considered. Granted, this heavily depends on whatever patterns, if any, FP#2 gives us. For example, if the first 5 reveals are all first-party, Geno's chances will be pretty dismal. If at least one is Third-party, his chances remain relatively unchanged. If one of them ends up as another SE character and his costume STILL doesn't show up, then either he's in for sure or doesn't get in at all. In short, there are a lot of variables still to consider, but the longer we go without Geno, the more cynical our chances are going to look.

In short, you're right, he doesn't have to be #7...or 8 or even 9, but I'm gonna be sweating bullets if we get to 10 and he still hasn't shown up.

DISCLAIMER: All of these "probabilities" I refer to are entirely speculatory in nature since the pass is actually decided already. Sakurai already knows our fate 100%. These are just what I call "chances of expectation". Meaning, how likely we can expect someone but obviously there can always be twists, turns and exceptions to any pattern as with how FP#1 was all third party until the very end.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

If Geno comes to Smash, what would be the title of his trailer?

Something like The Last SuperStar

 

[Lord Woomy]

Detractors in the first half of 2019: "Ha! There is a 100% chance Geno's costume will come back with Hero!!! They went with a different Square character and they'll bring back all missing Square content with Hero. Suck it Genopes, your puppet is finally dead!!!!!!"
7/30 goes by with no costume in sight
Detractors for the past 11 months: "Well, it's obvious Geno's costume didn't come back with Hero, anyone could've told you that! Dragon Quest and SMRPG are so different that it'd make no sense for their content to come together, unlike Sonic and Persona 5, which are very similar games and are obvious to be paired. Even then, DQ is Enix while SMRPG is Square, so it was literally impossible. There was never a chance in heaven or hell that Geno's costume would come back with Hero and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves!"

 

[Fatmanonice]

If Geno comes to Smash, what would be the title of his trailer?

"GARGLE MY WOODEN STAR NARDS, HATERS. I'M IN SMASH, NEXT STOP, YOUR MOM" but, in all seriousness, probably something about stars and/or wishes.