Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MarcelinoBros92]

Dude where did you get that plush from? That honestly just might be my favorite fan-made plush for Geno.

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She made with love this geno plush, visit and give love and likes.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Plot Twist: this was actually a 15 year troll campaign between me, you, and Psycho and our next project is getting Wanda from Mario and Wario into Smash.

You guys were actually playing 4D chess this whole time?!

 

[YsDisciple]

Previously,

At this point in time in which Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is at the start of its second fighters pass, and after having watched Best Guy Ever's "Why Smash Matters" video, a few things started to click in regards to the immediate future of the second fighters pass. As it's been discussed on this thread, Geno's chances of making it into the roster (and much sooner than later) seem to have reached an all time high that can be perceived by those who have been following his support throughout all this time. However, I came close to realizing that all of the coincidences that have surfaced throughout the years (recent years) for Geno seem more like the manifestation of causality (for the time that's the word I could find that encapsulates the piling of coincidences).

• The added attention to the Geno Mii Costume in Smash 4, along with the track of Beware the Forest Mushrooms
• The Nintendo Tweet asking to answer whether we're Team Mallow, or Team Geno
• The absence of the Geno Mii Costume in Ultimate
• The absence of Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars on the SNES NSO Library (despite it having been added to the SNES Classic)
• Sakurai having gone on record stating that at one point he wanted to add Geno to the roster (I believe it was around the time of Brawl?)

That, and other coincidences coming from fans (like the latest Mega Smash Poll done by Source Gaming) seem to have rather been a stockpiling of events that may eventually (or most certainly) end up in materializing Geno's inclusion to the roster. Heck, before I went to sleep last night, the following thought came to mind. Know how in Super Mario RPG there's this hidden Casino? Typically when one thinks of casinos, one thinks of cards (Black Jack, Poker), and slot machines. In slot machines usually the jackpot is associated with lining up three 7s. A coincidence of numbers that has been entertained in recent days has been the potential announcement of Challenger Pack 7 being announced on the 7th of July (which is the 7th month). Huh... you got three sevens there. Oh, but wait, if we consider that the character in CP 7 will be the 77th fighter, we actually have five sevens. Well, what do you know? Some slot machines also are known to line up five icons/symbols. And if that weren't enough, five be the points of a star. Seven have been the total of DLC fighters added to Ultimate thus far. Say causality felt like rolling the three (or five) sevens this upcoming July 7th to reveal Geno, we'd potentially be either getting the prize around that same time, or... around Mario's 35th anniversary celebrations (around September). Either way, it could be that they'd set CP 7s release date for Summer (just like Hero, which covered June up to September, but ended up releasing by the end of July).

Following up from September, as some have discussed that by then we might be seeing the return of Nintendo Directs, it wouldn't seem to out there to believe that it would be then that we would see who CP 8 would be. Yesterday, along with the reveal of Min Min, in a separate presentation (that being Summer Games Fest), we were shown the official announcement and gameplay footage for Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time. Although at the moment the game will be releasing for PS4 and XBOX One, similar to the N'Sane Trilogy, a Switch version is certainly inbound in a later date. Such an announcement would be fitting within a Nintendo Direct... in September; a great time to announce the eight DLC fighter. Rumblings of Crash potentially making it into the roster have also been discussed previously, and last night while checking in with the Crash support thread, I read the transcript from the Toys for Bob interview and noticed an eye-catching detail. Despite this title being positioned and purposely numbered Crash Bandicoot 4, taking place right after the events of Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped; the devs acknowledge that this game is technically the eight entry in the series. Since the game will delve on the topic of time travel, and there being the presence of a multiverse, the other Crash Bandicoot games remain canon to the story. Going back a bit; Crash Bandicoot 4 is the eight entry in the series.

Crackpot thought: 8 / 4 = 2; the Second Fighters Pass. Alternatively 4 x 2 = 8; the eight Challenger Pack. Alternatively 8 / 2 = 4; Crash Bandicoot 4.

Jokes aside (or are they?), as with Geno and CP 7, I noticed a similar sequence of coincidental events with Crash and what seems to be his pack; Challenger Pack 8 (coming as early as the N Sane Trilogy's original announcement back in Sony's E3 2016 presentation). The Crash Bandicoot franchise is not done with its momentum of coming back strong, and what better way to solidify his legacy than joining Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, what as many have agreed, has become the manifestation of a gaming hall of fame.

So far this has been the rummaging pondering of a gaming lore-junkie. In regards to coincidental numbers and events, the future of Challenger Packs 9 through 11 aren't quite clear yet (imo), however there are some names that have gained strength in their possibilities of joining the fray. Namely... one slayer of demons whose title's release date has mysteriously not been announced yet. Albeit if the causality of numbers were to be brought into play for CP 9, two characters (both slayers of demons) resonate with the reference of the Nine Circles of Hell, which are described in the literary masterpiece of Dante's Inferno. I admit however that perhaps it's too soon to tie-in the nature of CP 9, but this could perhaps serve as a lead. It'll be a matter of which will come first; DOOM Eternal, or Devil May Cry 4?

I erred and left out the key that drove the aforementioned thoughts into existence. With Min Min's reveal yesterday, and most importantly Vault Boy's Mii Costume reveal, I saw someone post an image of what seemed to be a leak that mentioned the Vault Boy Mii Costume, and how its presence tied into Min Min, or more specifically, Fighter # 76's reveal. The number 76 curiously enough is also seen on Bethesda's "Fallout 76" title which released on October 23, 2018. In said game, the player is one of many who live within Vault 76. In the source material, the number is tied to a vault; which is what is referred to a "large room or chamber used for storage, especially an underground one". This sounds like a place where one would also keep some secret or classified goods or information (imo). Huh, almost like how CP 6 was kept a secret (albeit we knew the game from which it was from) right up to the day of its reveal. CP 5 was a similar case as well (to the point where even Sakurai himself stated that very few people knew CP 5's identity, even among staff members).

When I saw this "coincidence" transcribed and alluded to, the other numeric coincidences followed (Geno's and CP 7, Crash's and CP 8, and most recently CP 9's potentially being either the Doom Slayer or Dante). These coincidences however aren't simply hanging onto numbers though. With Super Smash Bros. Ultimate being acknowledged by many as the manifestation of a gaming hall of fame, in a way it has materialized what could be considered the end goal, or final cause for many a gaming franchises (most notably third parties). The end cause = for the franchise to become immortalized in gaming history as one of the greats. The causes thus leading to the end cause would then be the years, works, and support each franchise has accumulated up to this very moment. Though there are always the concerns of negotiations which in the end are what make these collaborations possible; these very same negotiations fall within the flow of causality along with the other elements that have brought each franchise (namely the ones that have made it into Ultimate, and those that are on the way) to be exalted within the "hall of fame".

*The rummaging continues.*

 

[Polarthief]

And than the detractors and toxic arguments can move on to the next most popular character's thread. Probably Isaac or Shantae.

"Crash is never getting in Smash. We don't need another damn FURRY in the game!"
"Shantae is just some dumb pirate chick. Does anyone even know what she does? What a stupid design for a character, therefore she's never getting in."
"Isaac/Waluigi/Shadow/etc is still an AT and ATs still deconfirm, duh, otherwise we'd have gotten Spring Man."

Plot Twist: this was actually a 15 year troll campaign between me, you, and Psycho and our next project is getting Wanda from Mario and Wario into Smash.

The funniest thing is that some crazy nuts will actually believe this now.

 

[SSGuy]

Plot Twist: this was actually a 15 year troll campaign between me, you, and Psycho and our next project is getting Wanda from Mario and Wario into Smash.

Sounds to me like something one of those undercover Tatanga supporters would say....

 

[cosmicB]

You were literally arguing with me a week ago that Nintendo was totally fine with consolation prizes and that copy and paste ALTs for ARMS were totally fine too because things like differences in movement animations were "pedantic"...

I never said they were totally fine, I said it could be Nintendo's mindset because of the absurdity of the Samus/Dark Samus echo debacle. I acknowledged that a single character was possible, I just didn't think the reason would be because of the differences in canon playstyles and I stand by that statement because Samus/Dark Samus is still 100% ridiculous and until they say otherwise, I'll assume Sakurai has no problem with massive canon departures in fighting styles (the less charitable interpretation is he just doesn't care when it's a western property/created character that he just threw in for fan requests).

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said though. We aren't talking about animations here, we're talking about whether base game mii costumes deconfirm or not and how that affects ATs deconfirming or not. One is a fully modelled character without a moveset. The other is a slightly tweaked default costume with a moveset. I'm not sure how one can take priority over the other. And no, this isn't me saying "well it's easy, they can just slap a moveset on the AT and be done with it, can't take more than a few months!". It's the opposite in that I can't see it being relevant in their decision making.

Edit: If I'm not being clear here, I'd rather there be neither AT or costume upgrades. I was the same with spirits, but that rule is dead, so I have to adjust in my speculation and consider how this affects mii costumes ATs. I just don't follow your line of logic why ATs are on the table while costumes aren't.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Namami was also NessDeltarune and banned.

Anyway, since 4chan deletes a lot of posts, it's harder to always tell if the ID Search will work or not. But that thing looks faked. Albeit, the person might've actually had some information, but they still didn't actually post it on 4chan from the best we can tell.

Mii costumes are weird. Base game ones aren't in a special spot, but those for both sets of DLC are in an odd position. A few of them were decided before the base game finished, while others were changed to be added with Pass 2 in mind. So some of the very early Pass 1 ones might still be on the table, but I feel like everything Hero and beyond were probably figured out with Pass 2 in mind, which is why the Geno and Chocobo Hat never showed up. They(assuming Geno's costume even comes back, like near the end of the pass after Geno is playable) were set up with Pass 2 in mind. Though there's also Pass 1 costumes that would've been unchanged, but it's impossible to say if they mixed it up too. There's a fair chance some were never going to originally come back, and seeing as how we had 5 costumes again, the idea each set was "6 costumes" doesn't look remotely likely either.

I don't think generally costumes are out either, and other than the ones who haven't returned, there's not too many that might still be plausible among the DLC ones for playable(MegaMan X or .EXE, Tails, Knuckles, Goemon, maybe?). For base game ones, Isaac and Lip, Dixie Kong and Waluigi, those sound all plausible.

I wish we knew when they decided to start figuring out Pass 2. Not just when the discussions ended. We've had guesses or slight information at best(like when Banjo & Kazooie were talked about to Microsoft, but not when they actually started figuring out Pass 1). Though at least 2017 July according to an old article I linked to the cliffnotes of a while back(where Nintendo talked to Sakurai about DLC) is the earliest they could've started figuring out stuff. That's actually pretty early to start greenlighting 3rd party costumes, figuring out PP, etc.

 

[protoblues]

You know, I wonder if Min Min's dragon projectiles could serve as an indication of how Ge

Nice. I also think the way her ar

I think it's not impossible for us to get both Master Chief and Doomslayer though. Just because they're both from the FPS genre that doesn't mean only one could get in. Hell, Season Pass 1 had 3 JRPG characters with Joker, Hero, and Byleth. Anything is possible.

Nah. Bigger problem than them both being FPS characters is that they are characters with very similar designs, and the even bigger problem than that is that they are both characters from a western IP. The important takeaway from there being three JRPG characters in the last pass isn't that they are three RPG characters, it's that they are three Japanese RPG characters.

Banjo is still one of the only characters from a western IP. And he is a pretty special case.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

I could very easily be wrong, but I have a strong feeling that Geno will be coming along with these other three (as well as another Nintendo Fighter). How would you guys feel about this?

I'll take one of everything please. I have no connection to Dante but I'm not going to act like he wouldn't be a big deal or be a cool addition.

I ****ing love Geno guys

No way yo me too! So weird to see another Geno fan in the Geno thread!

 

[EarlTamm]

Nice. I also think the way her ar

Strange, not sure how that got there. Was halfway through when I decided that it was a silly thou

In all seriousness, we don't see beams like that very often, so may be worth analyzing.

 

[MattX20]

With Min Min in the game, you think Geno would be a better or worse zoner character than her?

 

[EarlTamm]

With Min Min in the game, you think Geno would be a better or worse zoner character than her?

She will probably be better at zoning, but I don't think Geno is a pure zoning sort of character.

 

[RichieGonzo]

With Min Min in the game, you think Geno would be a better or worse zoner character than her?

If Geno got added, a part of me kinda doubts he'd be a full on zoner fighter. I feel like sure all of his specials would be projectiles with their own properties but his other moves would just be melee attacks. Probably would be a mix of a zoner and a rushdown the way I see it.

There are a lot of a different way to interpret his moves from SMRPG.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

Can't forget Sakurai putting heavy emphasis on how Spirit battles can change. I wouldn't be surprised if a few fighters from Fighter Pass 2 will have their spirit battles change. Geno could not be in a better position.

In the part where sakurai talked about the cuphead mii question, there was a subtitle that said that the spirit battles could be changed and that they will probably continue to change, we know that the pass was chosen in the byleth video and remember this The Hero video was recorded in June, the banjo video 2 days after the hero video came out, that is, in August, Terry's in October, Byleth's in November and Min Min's in May, that is FP2 was chosen since November, therefore, between November and June there are 7 months, why put that probably more battles will be changed since the characters already know 7 months ago and then they will know if there is another promotion apart from Min min? I feel that sakurai is something like "we tell you that there may be another ascended spirit being that you and I know there will be * Wink *" that subtitle together with the fact that min min entered for me are the 2 reasons that the rule died and it is because I feel that both Rayman and Geno have such a good chance at this point
PS: with this last I do not say that Geno and Rayman are the only 2 promotions of possible spirits, I just feel that the ones with the most chances have

 

[MattX20]

If Geno got added, a part of me kinda doubts he'd be a full on zoner fighter. I feel like sure all of his specials would be projectiles with their own properties but his other moves would just be melee attacks. Probably would be a mix of a zoner and a rushdown the way I see it.

There are a lot of a different way to interpret his moves from SMRPG.

That's true, he could be based on how Project M/Legacy mods handled him

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Note that when he said "Spirit Battles could change", it was in the context of Mii Costume stuff.

On another note;

Spoiler

ALTTP rando updated with some pretty cool costumes.

 

[cosmicB]

Note that when he said "Spirit Battles could change", it was in the context of Mii Costume stuff.

Yeah, I said this in the speculation thread and asked if we had confirmation on Min Min's spirit battle changing. I don't see why it wouldn't, but Sakurai specifically said it in the context of mii costumes and it made me wonder why he didn't mention Min Min's Corrin spirit battle considering the presentation was all about her.

 

[PatPrime]

Rayman fans right now:

Sex
S

Oh you know I'm gonna post this everywhere if Rayman is confirmed.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, I said this in the speculation thread and asked if we had confirmation on Min Min's spirit battle changing. I don't see why it wouldn't, but Sakurai specifically said it in the context of mii costumes and it made me wonder why he didn't mention Min Min's Corrin spirit battle considering the presentation was all about her.

My guess is that battle'll remain the same as is. But who knows. We'll find out in 6 days. I have a feeling a lot of battles could use a costume character or someone logical too. I don't think there's an actual MegaMan X spirit, for instance, so, no options for changes in that case.

...Though it'd be funny if a few battles used one of the base costumes instead, like Isabelle being replaced by her costume.

 

[cosmicB]

My guess is that battle'll remain the same as is. But who knows. We'll find out in 6 days. I have a feeling a lot of battles could use a costume character or someone logical too. I don't think there's an actual MegaMan X sprite, for instance, so, no options for changes in that case.

...Though it'd be funny if a few battles used one of the base costumes instead, like Isabelle being replaced by her costume.

You think the Min Min spirit battle will remain as Corrin? Because I'd just assume that would mean spirit battle alterations would be only relegated to costumes and this might be a one time thing as far as full spirit upgrades into playable characters goes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You think the Min Min spirit battle will remain as Corrin? Because I'd just assume that would mean spirit battle alterations would be only relegated to costumes and this might be a one time thing as far as full spirit upgrades into playable characters goes.

I think it'll change if Min Min is downloaded. There's a chance it won't, of course. Which would be funny. But now that you can rematch Spirits in WoL anyway, well, it should be more interesting what silly matchups you could do. If you didn't already beat that battle, you can have Min Min fighting Min Min to unlock the Min Min spirit. Min Minception!

However, I also think you'll have her unlocked with 10 characters as normal(unless they change the number for Pass 2 to 20 or something). Her Fighter Spirit would be different too. And her regular Spirit just says ARMS at the end like with others.

 

[RingJ5]

Hey all!

Not sure if you guys remember me, but I used to post here months ago. I went by "WaniiZ". I used to post here frequently, until things turned toxic very fast. Not by us, mind you - by others outside of this thread. Death threats, insults, off-site harassment - they were all there.

I wasn't in a good state back then, and I was letting things get to my head too easily. It got so bad to the point where I just didn't want to participate in Smash speculation because of it - I requested an account deletion from the admins because I knew things weren't going to get better.

I was thinking about returning for a while now, but then I saw Ovaltine return to the thread, and I'm happy she's back. It's nice to see a community still stand strong, despite everything.

So, just to catch up on things, here are my thoughts. This is going to be a lengthy post, so apologies in advance.

MIN MIN

SPIRITS DON'T DECONFIRM!

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. And Min Min is a great character to break that dumb fan-rule. Funny, I was playing her non-stop just a day before the ARMS reveal to prepare myself, and there she was! I knew it was her going into that presentation, and I'm super glad it was. She looks incredible.

I'm already guessing I'm going to suck so hard at playing her. I can't play complex characters to save my life - I learned that first-hand with Megaman.

It also deconfirms the dumb side-character argument.

CACOMALLOW

Cacomallow is about 75% real, with the other 25% being fake. I've still yet to see any mods that can match the head-shape right, without it looking off. Although I haven't checked in a while. I'm still concerned about the interview with ID, more than anything else.

It'll definitely be a hit to me because I'm a fan of both Doom and Geno (though I'll happily take the Chief if Doom doesn't make it in, they're equal in my books) but I'll get over it, if it's fake it's fake. If it's real, then it's real. Yadda yadda.

MII COSTUMES

VAULT BOY

Vault Boy costume! Definitely a highlight. I wanted some sort of Bethesda content, and of all things Fallout was just that. I love Fallout, so that was a pleasant surprise to see. I think it hits Cacomallow's chances slightly, but not that much for reasons I listed above.

MISCELLANEOUS

Heihachi returned on his own. That means we have Lloyd and Gil left. I think the "you can't have one Mii costume on it's own" is a fan-rule, because they do save costumes for later. Just because we got Ubisoft costumes first doesn't mean Rayman's deconfirmed, for example. ARMS already deconfirmed this in my eyes because we got everything BUT the playable character first for that series. There'll likely be more Namco content coming.

So people saying Cacomallow is deconfirmed because of Vault Boy showing up is a bit iffy to me. It's entirely possible that Bethesda will likely want more content in Smash, and Vault Boy was just the first step in that. Elder Scrolls or even DOOM is next for sure. I'd be fine with either/or.

Even if we don't get the Cacodemon Mii costume, we'll likely get something else Bethesda-related. A B.J. Blazokowicz Mii costume, for example. If they can get Fallout (which is already gritty enough) they can for sure get something Wolfenstein-related. Maybe even a Dragonborn/Doomguy costume if we don't get them as playable characters.

GENO

Now for the main event. I'm more confident than ever in Geno's chances, and I won't let anyone convince me otherwise. Now that all other dumb excuses are thrown out the window for Geno (spirits deconfirm, can only be the protagonist, etc etc.) let's move on to the big one standing in his way.

His existence. I've heard time and time again that Geno just appeared in one game twenty years ago as a "side character" (despite being the driving point of SMRPG's plot) and he shouldn't be in because of that. In my eyes, that's a bigger reason to support him. Smash is all about bringing back characters from the "dead" - Banjo, K Rool, R.O.B, Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt..

Imagine if Shadow stayed dead in SA2. Let's imagine he wasn't brought back from Heroes onwards (because of fan demand, no less!) Where would the Sonic fanbase be? Wouldn't people then be saying Shadow appeared in only one game twenty years ago? Wouldn't you want a cool character like Shadow to come back as well? He made an impact on you when playing SA2. You loved playing as him, seeing his story. But Sega wanted him to stay gone.

That's what Geno feels like to me. It's exactly WHY I want Geno to come back. He only appeared in one game because he had no other choice - he was a Square character, and Nintendo/Square were on bad terms. If they had bothered to bring him back like with Shadow, he would have staying power in the same vein Waluigi does.

Let's use another example. Didn't Mighty and Ray only exist in one game from twenty years ago? Last time we saw Mighty was in Knuckles Chaotix. Last time we saw Ray however, was in SegaSonic - three years older than Super Mario RPG!

Despite this, they're now a staying part of the fanbase. If they had bothered to continue with the SMRPG characters, I think they'll be held in the same regard as Mighty and Ray are now.

That's my take on things. I want Geno to come back BECAUSE of who he is. You take a cool-looking, unique character that has never been seen before in a Mario game, and you practically leave that character to rot.

If Geno isn't allowed in, why are people requesting characters like Ninten, Kumatora, Takamaru, Sukapon - they've only had one game to pick from. Kumatora isn't even the main character, Lucas is. What about the Masked Man? He's a villain from a 14-year old game. Why are those characters okay, when Geno isn't? I've even seen it with Dimentio. Why is Dimentio, a villain from a 12-year old game that is very likely a one-off, okay when Geno isn't? Fawful is the same way. He was lucky to see a return in Bowser's Inside Story, and even then that game is only a year older than Super Paper Mario. He hasn't returned since.

Personally, I'd happily accept those characters. But it's not fair to strike out a character because of one rule, but advocate for another character that follows the same reasoning for why that character can't get in. It always felt like gate-keeping to me. Something the Smash community is practically famous for.

One game isn't enough for him. At the very least, SMRPG is deserving of a sequel - or Smash representation. Since AlphaDream is up in the air, let's just go with Smash representation for now. That's the best we can hope for.

It worked with Pit, didn't it?

EXTRA THOUGHTS

Colour Theory is a bit silly, but holy heck is the seven-stars thing so coincidential. Matches it to a tee. Not to mention the weird "7" thing going on with CP7 that PapaGenos pointed out, although I don't think it means much, Geno-related. It could easily mean something else, like Chief. Bungie was obsessed with the number 7 in particular, to the point where July 7th was referred to as Bungie Day. I remember hopping on to Valhalla and seeing the easter egg on the wall.

That said, the numbers are sketchy, to say the least. It's definitely something to take note of, and it's definitely a Sakurai thing to do - considering he was messing around with binary in Byleth's presentation, and having fun with the slinky in the ARMS presentation. There's always something that makes us go "Oh, that Sakurai!" like a comedy sitcom.

When it comes to Cacomallow and Vault Boy, just think of it this way:

With #5, we got a set of two costumes from a popular Western developer without a character in Smash. Said set included a hat and an incredible-looking costume... that inexplicably used the character’s name instead of the series title in the American broadcast, in a dark grey font. Neither included songs.

With #6, we got a costume from a popular Western developer without a character in Smash. Said incredible-looking costume... that inexplicably used the character’s name instead of the series title in the Western broadcast, in a dark grey font, did not include a song.

It would have lined up especially well for Cacodemon to have shown up with Vault Boy, because that would help answer a significant amount of weirdness going on:

-With Mii Costume List being one of the only real leaks, why would they be working on Mii Costumes for #8 in October 2019, which would be a huge liability to just leave them dormant like that? Even without all the **** going on, you wouldn’t have needed said costumes until around Fall 2020 at the very earliest, leaving them as prime leak candidates for nearly a full year.
-If Cacodemon was supposed to come later on with a Doom character, why even launch Vault Boy now? That directly spoils their involvement with the series.
-Similarly, if it was supposed to be held back, why didn’t Vault Boy still come with an accompanying hat like Altair did? I mean, Dragonborn Helm was literally right there.
-With Heihachi’s appearance giving more credence to Power of Six, if Cacodemon actually were to appear here, then it would have finally brought everything back to six costumes per wave... if only it wouldn’t have confirmed a particular leak, and had to be held back again.

Cacomallow and Vault Boy can very easily co-exist, even considering that interview being a heavy hit against Doomguy.

 

[Fatmanonice]

C cosmicB The reason I brought up those arguments you made about ARMS is that, yes, I was correct about Nintendo caring about minor details when they pull the trigger on things. My argument was that, because they pulled the trigger on an ARMS character, they probably were going to care about the aspects of that character that make them unique and not haphazardly cram multiple characters together just because. Coincidentally, this philosophy even applies to assist trophies, especially in Ultimate. Assist trophies "behave" in a certain way and, like we saw with Little Mac and Isabelle, these traits carried over to their playable forms. Now on the concept of "pulling the trigger..."

We have yet to have a character that has had a full hat trick (three goals in a row for anyone not familiar with Canadian slapstick): assist trophy, costume, and playable. When a character becomes playable, their assist trophy disappears, if they even had one. Isabelle is the only costume prrrrrrromotion from Smash 4 that was a former assist trophy. Now, when Nintendo pulls the trigger on a character becoming playable, they either become a full fledged character or a costume, not both and certainly not in the same game. Remember, Isabelle, Chrom, K. Rool, and Inkling were NPCs in Smash 4 that wound up with costumes. Like my sprawling list from this morning showed, Nintendo has already pulled the trigger on a good number of popular assist trophies. Waluigi is one of the notably absent ones. He has a hat but... That's it. No overalls with his pointy shoes, something that could easily be done and, ironically, was even done in Super Mario Odyssey.

Continuing from this, we're presented with a distinct dichotomy on playable forms: Mii costume or full fledged character. If somebody has both, it was because their costume came first in Smash 4, not Ultimate. As said, Isabelle was the only AT promotion and her Za Warudo is totally gone in Ultimate to compensate. This is also why we're waiting with baited breath for Geno because he's currently in the same position that Isabelle and K. Rool used to be in. They haven't "pulled the trigger" on Geno yet but we have enough to show us that we're either getting the Geno Mii costume, fully playable Geno, or both. Same could be argued with Lloyd. That's what I'm ultimately getting at: a character's playable state in Smash is defined by a Mii costume or bring fully playable, not both. The characters that have both simply had their "old definitions" brought over from Smash 4 and these were both available at the same time, technically. That's where the difference lies.

 

[Icewolff92]

Persona 5 Scramble.

That came afterward, and that game has yet to be released in west...

 

[Theguy123]

Bruhhhhh who else is just here casually waiting for the next papagenos leak speculation video to drop. I hope it’s soon.

 

[AdamBel731]

Geno thread, I would like to ask you all a devilish hypothetical that I haven't seen tossed around in recent memory. So, with the recent amiibo being shown off and how Sakurai said they'd be in limited supply it got me thinking...

Say that when a Geno amiibo comes out (because one will, as we know) but you couldn't get one for the normal store price. You go to whatever third party shopping website to get it (like eBay or something) and are determined to get your Geno amiibo no matter what.

How much are you willing to pay a scalper for a Geno amiibo? $50? $100? How far are you willing to go to get official merchandise for a character you have all wanted for years?

(Sorry I couldn't find a better visual)

(This situation came to mind because I need a amiibo and I am prepared to pay exorbitant prices if I can't get it naturally...)

 

[MattX20]

Bruhhhhh who else is just here casually waiting for the next papagenos leak speculation video to drop. I hope it’s soon.

Probably not for another week or two, certainly not until after Min Min releases

 

[GodzillaGuy64]

That came afterward, and that game has yet to be released in west...

It still counts.

 

[cosmicB]

C cosmicB The reason I brought up those arguments you made about ARMS is that, yes, I was correct about Nintendo caring about minor details when they pull the trigger on things. My argument was that, because they pulled the trigger on an ARMS character, they probably were going to care about the aspects of that character that make them unique and not haphazardly cram multiple characters together just because. Coincidentally, this philosophy even applies to assist trophies, especially in Ultimate. Assist trophies "behave" in a certain way and, like we saw with Little Mac and Isabelle, these traits carried over to their playable forms. Now on the concept of "pulling the trigger..."

Yes, probably, but that's not something we can know for sure. Here are two scenarios.

1. Sakurai cares about the individual properties of a character that would make him leery on alts that represent a different character.
2. Sakurai is willing to apply artistic license to a character for the sake of representing more characters in their same slot/as an echo.

These two things can be true at once because it's entirely arbitrary and will be based on the character because we've flat out seen it happen. The possibility I proposed was that the ARMs rep COULD be 2, but may be 1. At no point did Sakurai actually mention Min Min's individuality during the video, so this is something we'll never know, and that would have been the same if he went with Ninjara.

We have yet to have a character that has had a full hat trick (three goals in a row for anyone not familiar with Canadian slapstick): assist trophy, costume, and playable. When a character becomes playable, their assist trophy disappears, if they even had one. Isabelle is the only costume prrrrrrromotion from Smash 4 that was a former assist trophy. Now, when Nintendo pulls the trigger on a character becoming playable, they either become a full fledged character or a costume, not both and certainly not in the same game. Remember, Isabelle, Chrom, K. Rool, and Inkling were NPCs in Smash 4 that wound up with costumes. Like my sprawling list from this morning showed, Nintendo has already pulled the trigger on a good number of popular assist trophies. Waluigi is one of the notably absent ones. He has a hat but... That's it. No overalls with his pointy shoes, something that could easily be done and, ironically, was even done in Super Mario Odyssey.

Continuing from this, we're presented with a distinct dichotomy on playable forms: Mii costume or full fledged character. If somebody has both, it was because their costume came first in Smash 4, not Ultimate. As said, Isabelle was the only AT promotion and her Za Warudo is totally gone in Ultimate to compensate. This is also why we're waiting with baited breath for Geno because he's currently in the same position that Isabelle and K. Rool used to be in. They haven't "pulled the trigger" on Geno yet but we have enough to show us that we're either getting the Geno Mii costume, fully playable Geno, or both. Same could be argued with Lloyd. That's what I'm ultimately getting at: a character's playable state in Smash is defined by a Mii costume or bring fully playable, not both. The characters that have both simply had their "old definitions" brought over from Smash 4 and these were both available at the same time, technically. That's where the difference lies.

I think I get what you're saying more, but this still hinges on the idea of stage alterations being more relevant than other arbitrary lines you could draw like mii costume spirit battle upgrades, while simultaneously placing definitive importance on the costumes themselves but not the AT when it's both representation and we have no precedent for upgrades of either in the same game.

I think we've all acknowledged that the situation has changed as far as base game content goes. Spirits are no longer off the table when they would have been without a season 2. We're still probably not getting spirit upgrades of characters that have gotten boards after s2 was announced and the same could be said for the costumes, but it's a different story for costumes released prior to s2's finalization or even announcement.

Like would you really be THAT shocked if we got Rex and Pyra?

 

[T2by4]

We're already halfway done with this year and we only got on character so far. Do you think we'll get three by the end of this year? When do you think the next one is coming? I think some of ya'll mentioned possibly July right?

 

[Droodle]

Going back to the discussion we had earlier today.

I'll reiterate that I think getting both Geno and Waluigi (in Fighters Pass 2) is pretty darn unlikely (not impossible, but I'd rate the chances of that as being stupidly low). There is a ton of competition between series already in Fighters Pass 2, that I really can't see Nintendo double dipping in the same exact series twice. To me, it's about as unlikely as getting another Fire Emblem character in Fighters Pass 2.

Sure, both Geno and Waluigi have tons of fan demand going out for them; but as we saw in Pass 1 demand isn't everything, and also the fact that there is also tons of demand for other 1st party characters that aren't Mario characters. I know a ton of demand exists for Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Rex and Pyra, and more Zelda characters for example; and those series aren't nearly as "well" represented as something like Mario. With the high amount of competition I can't really see us ending up with 2 Mario newcomers (even if it is the 35th anniversary of Mario), especially when spreading fighters out to other series could end up boosting those series' success (Mario doesn't really need that).

If Waluigi ends up being confirmed before Geno, I'd say Geno's chances drop hard (For Pass 2). I would expect his costume to return with Waluigi or another Square character, even if it is "unlikely" to come with the former, it does make a lot of sense if they delayed something like a Geno costume to another Mario character.

Currently, with all the information we have on Geno; I view Geno as more likely than Waluigi. However, I do think Waluigi has the best shot of any Assist Trophy to get promoted too, he's still pretty likely; just less than Geno. That said, I think people shouldn't expect both Geno + Waluigi to get promoted, at least unless there end up being bonus passes/characters. If Waluigi does end up getting promoted, then to me, Geno is as good as done.

We're already halfway done with this year and we only got on character so far. Do you think we'll get three by the end of this year? When do you think the next one is coming? I think some of ya'll mentioned possibly July right?

I think we are definitely going to get 3 characters this year. I've mentioned it before like 3 weeks ago, but I personally believe that there is going to be a Nintendo direct in late July/August; where they will likely go and reveal most of their "big" E3 annoucements including Fighters 7 and 8. I was right about 7 not being revealed alongside ARMS, so I'm pretty much a leaker . I think we will end up getting ports of things like Pikmin 3 soon, and those will be revealed right around when Paper Mario comes out. 8 may end up getting released early next year though, if they struggle with development.

 

[JarBear]

I am hoping for early July for something. Heck, it can be a twitter video like Paper Mario.

 

[xpnc]

We're already halfway done with this year and we only got on character so far. Do you think we'll get three by the end of this year? When do you think the next one is coming? I think some of ya'll mentioned possibly July right?

We'll get another in September for sure, based on amiibo release trends

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Geno thread, I would like to ask you all a devilish hypothetical that I haven't seen tossed around in recent memory. So, with the recent amiibo being shown off and how Sakurai said they'd be in limited supply it got me thinking...

Say that when a Geno amiibo comes out (because one will, as we know) but you couldn't get one for the normal store price. You go to whatever third party shopping website to get it (like eBay or something) and are determined to get your Geno amiibo no matter what.

How much are you willing to pay a scalper for a Geno amiibo? $50? $100? How far are you willing to go to get official merchandise for a character you have all wanted for years?

(Sorry I couldn't find a better visual)
View attachment 276004

(This situation came to mind because I need a amiibo and I am prepared to pay exorbitant prices if I can't get it naturally...)

If for some reason I exhausted all options and couldn’t pre-order or find him anywhere, I’d probably spend up to nearly $100 if I HAD to, but only as a last resort. But i’d first try and wait it out and hope scalping prices went down.

I plan on being psychotic and frame 1 pre-ordering him if he gets in though

 

[MattX20]

Remember, Min Min was delayed owing to technical difficulties and not the pandemic. Fighters 7 and 8 are likely still on course and likely to release before years end. We might even see 9 revealed at the Game Awards this year, so who knows

 

[Griselda]

I don't think there's an actual MegaMan X sprite, for instance, so, no options for changes in that case.

..I know I'm just sort of jumping in, here, but I'm a little confused about what you mean by this?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

..I know I'm just sort of jumping in, here, but I'm a little confused about what you mean by this?

...I meant to say Spirit, sorry.

I was writing that while looking/talking about sprites somewhere else. Whoops.

 

[OffBi]

The date is June 22 2021

Geno was revealed as a playable DLC character in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch in July 2020

Geno has been playable since September 2021

There are still regular gamefaqs threads denying the existence of Geno. They say that he will never be in the game even as they get 3-stocked by a Geno on Quickplay.

i know that this is a old post but jesus, playable since September 2021?!
Jezz, we're gonna turn into husks by then.

 

[Griselda]

...I meant to say Spirit, sorry.

I was writing that while looking/talking about sprites somewhere else. Whoops.

Ah, that makes a little more sense. X's spirit is just listed as 'X', according to the ssbwiki. Thought I remembered fighting him, but I had to check and make sure. I dunno how I'd feel about Megaman being swapped for Mii Gunner in the fight, though. https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_spirits_(Mega_Man_series)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ah, that makes a little more sense. X's spirit is just listed as 'X', according to the ssbwiki. Thought I remembered fighting him, but I had to check and make sure. I dunno how I'd feel about Megaman being swapped for Mii Gunner in the fight, though. https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_spirits_(Mega_Man_series)

Yeah, it could happen.

It depends the fight. In some cases, Mii Gunners might be less annoying. MegaMan is a pain in any HP-based match due to nearly free hits with his Neutral A.