Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[CannonStreak]

I do hope this Pokémon DLC thing next week, not from Amazon, doesn’t interfere with the possible Smash DLC news.

 

[Spatulo]

Demille:

View attachment 274687

Ouendan:

View attachment 274688

Kawashima:

View attachment 274689

You appear to be right about Ougma though. I could have sworn he had a spirit too.

I think “Ougma” is one way to romanize “Ogma” from Fire Emblem, and I could have sworn he was a spirit but apparently not.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Firox Okay, Sakurai didn't say Season 2 would char our nards... His exact words were "Season 2 will char your nards all the way to Mars and then beyond the stars in a rocket car." Video footage of the press conference where he said this can be found here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9al175InK1o

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

TTYD is neat as an idea to have more than one loadout, but there was no reason not to get BP to max and throw nearly everything into Danger and Peril options. Why wouldn't you use it? It's literally the best loadout to the point of absurdity..

Rest of your post was whatever but I have to question this line here. Your forgetting that Danger/Peril strats require a LOT of skill, patience, and above all timing with your guards, because one mistake and it's over. Very rarely will you have causal players looking to pull this off.

Just because a system has exploits like this doesn't mean the system is broken.

 

[Polarthief]

I do hope this Pokémon DLC thing next week, not from Amazon, doesn’t interfere with the possible Smash DLC news.

Don't we all... *sighs*

If Nintendo actually delays reveals (both Smash and games) ANOTHER week for ****ing DLC for SwSh, I'm gonna lose it. June's gonna be half over soon and we've still got absolutely nothing.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Part of the reason I brought up "Sakurai's Journal" again is because I heavily brought it up in the Brawl days, often to ridicule and claims that I was supporting conspiracies, only for it to wind up correctly predicting 6 characters (technically 7 because of Claus) and 2 assist trophies. Megaman and Villager would then wind up being the first newcomers in Smash 4, Takamaru and Dr. Kawashima would become assist trophies, and K. Rool and Geno would become Mii costumes. Probably one of the most frustrating things about Ultimate is that the coincidences for Geno have piled up a mile high for almost two years now and yet "the List™" is still regularly dismissed. I mean, goody for us because that will make the Dunk of the Decade™ slam down that much harder but it's like... how do people literally dismiss everything as purely coincidental? As we have gone over time and time again, the list is pretty ****in' huge at this point so to totally ignore everything is just setting up the most avid of detractors for legendary downfalls that they will likely never live down within the Smash fanbase.

 

[MattX20]

Part of the reason I brought up "Sakurai's Journal" again is because I heavily brought it up in the Brawl days, often to ridicule and claims that I was supporting conspiracies, only for it to wind up correctly predicting 6 characters (technically 7 because of Claus) and 2 assist trophies. Megaman and Villager would then wind up being the first newcomers in Smash 4, Takamaru and Dr. Kawashima would become assist trophies, and K. Rool and Geno would become Mii costumes. Probably one of the most frustrating things about Ultimate is that the coincidences for Geno have piled up a mile high for almost two years now and yet "the List™" is still regularly dismissed. I mean, goody for us because that will make the Dunk of the Decade™ slam down that much harder but it's like... how do people literally dismiss everything as purely coincidental? As we have gone over time and time again, the list is pretty ****in' huge at this point so to totally ignore everything is just setting up the most avid of detractors for legendary downfalls that they will likely never live down within the Smash fanbase.

The most important fact beyond this is that Sakurai made it clear in the Nintendo Dream interview from February 2016 is that he wanted the character to be playable since Brawl. Apart from Lloyd being mentioned as the character Sakurai would want to represent the Tales series, no other character had this much positive support.

 

[Enigma735]

I haven't really been on here much today, but I probably haven't missed much.

Enigma735 The main things that pointed to Geno in 2006 and 2007 were entries in "Sakurai's Journal." These were entries were entries made to the Brawl Poll that ran shortly after E3 2006. The poll was done in Japanese and submissions were split into three main categories: character requests, music requests, and words of encouragement to the Brawl team. Sakurai chose 290 entries to make public although his reasons for picking those specific entries was never totally explained. Of the entries he shared, these were the characters that came up the most often:

King Dedede(5)
Diddy Kong(4)
Geno(4) (technically 5 because Geno had an entry about music, specifically "Beware the Forest's Mushrooms")
Ike(4)
Ridley(4)
Captain Olimar & Pikmin(3)
Krystal(3)
Takamaru(3)
Windwaker Link(3)
Animal Crossing MC(2)
Claus(2)
Demiru(2)
Isaac(2)
Jeff(2)
Kawasima(2)
King K.Rool(2)
Lip(2)
Lucas(2)
Mega Man(2)
Oguma(2)
Ouendan(2)
Sukapon(2)

https://smashboards.com/threads/characters-on-sakurais-poll.71872/

Notice anything? Most of these characters would go on to be either playable or assist trophies in Brawl alone. Nearly all these characters would eventually be prrrrrrromoted, even if it wasn't until Ultimate. All in all, in was a pretty strong indicator of characters that Sakurai was interested in making playable in Brawl. Again, we didn't get confirmation that Sakurai was strongly interested in Geno until 2016, 8 years later, from the man himself here:

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016...ans-one-most-requested-smash-bros-characters/

I have actually heard of this, can't remember where I heard it from, but this definitely shows Geno has more then just a vocal minority and a request even Sakurai is aware of. Interestingly enough, Mega Man, who is the only other third-party on this list, did end up making it to playable, so maybe Geno might be on the horizon!

 

[Fatmanonice]

The most important fact beyond this is that Sakurai made it clear in the Nintendo Dream interview from February 2016 is that he wanted the character to be playable since Brawl. Apart from Lloyd being mentioned as the character Sakurai would want to represent the Tales series, no other character had this much positive support.

And, as if that wasn't smacking people hard enough in the face, Sakurai said this past January that the post past was originally envisioned as ONE OR TWO CHARACTERS. You can basically count on one hand that Sakurai has mentioned in a positive light that haven't been made playable yet and Geno's one of them, yet another big reason I believe Geno will be early in Season 2 and that, not only is a Namco rep super likely, but Lloyd and Heihachi are probably the only two he has taken seriously for the spot.

 

[MattX20]

And, as if that wasn't smacking people hard enough in the face, Sakurai said this past January that the post past was originally envisioned as ONE OR TWO CHARACTERS. You can basically count on one hand that Sakurai has mentioned in a positive light that haven't been made playable yet and Geno's one of them, yet another big reason I believe Geno will be early in Season 2 and that, not only is a Namco rep super likely, but Lloyd and Heihachi are probably the only two he has taken seriously for the spot.

Given that Sakurai said he couldn't make Heihachi's moveset work in the context of Smash for Smash 4, I get the feeling Lloyd will be who he goes with. That, and the recent anniversary for the Tales franchise would certainly help

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The most important fact beyond this is that Sakurai made it clear in the Nintendo Dream interview from February 2016 is that he wanted the character to be playable since Brawl. Apart from Lloyd being mentioned as the character Sakurai would want to represent the Tales series, no other character had this much positive support.

That's why I think he has a good chance.

But that still depends upon Nintendo.

Given that Sakurai said he couldn't make Heihachi's moveset work in the context of Smash for Smash 4, I get the feeling Lloyd will be who he goes with. That, and the recent anniversary for the Tales franchise would certainly help

Not necessarily. The issue was he couldn't transfer over the mechanics faithfully so he discarded him. It's not that Heihachi has a bad moveset or that it didn't work, it's Tekken's own mechanics that stopped him in his tracks. He could easily make him work, but without the Tekken bits.

 

[JarBear]

...Probably one of the most frustrating things about Ultimate is that the coincidences for Geno have piled up a mile high for almost two years now and yet "the List™" is still regularly dismissed. I mean, goody for us because that will make the Dunk of the Decade™ slam down that much harder but it's like... how do people literally dismiss everything as purely coincidental? As we have gone over time and time again, the list is pretty ****in' huge at this point so to totally ignore everything is just setting up the most avid of detractors for legendary downfalls that they will likely never live down within the Smash fanbase.

Lol, so true.

"yeah, yeah, all that stuff about Geno is simply coincidence ... Sakurai may have wanted him before, that means nothing ... Yeah, jus cuz the Mii Costume didn't come back means nothing ... *Myriads of other detractions* ... yada yada yada.

*Overwatch is announced on Switch*

"Oh yeah, Tracer is totally in."

 

[DutchPichu]

Question: is this NoA (iirc) coffee machine Geno talk still evidence? If I remember correctly, that dates back to the end of 2018. They wouldn’t have known about FP2 characters, would they?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Question: is this NoA (iirc) coffee machine Geno talk still evidence? If I remember correctly, that dates back to the end of 2018. They wouldn’t have known about FP2 characters, would they?

FP2 was finalized by 2019 September. We found the data slots for more characters well after FP1 started, so that's about when we could expect it to be decided upon.

What time during 2018 was it? I think we found the data slots... in February, almost March? So they already had ideas for it, but not necessarily discussion on any FP2 content.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Question: is this NoA (iirc) coffee machine Geno talk still evidence? If I remember correctly, that dates back to the end of 2018. They wouldn’t have known about FP2 characters, would they?

I would argue yes because 1. the Fighter's Pass had already been decided at that point and 2. we have a decent amount of evidence that Nintendo was already heavily considering a Season 2 or at least a couple of post pass characters. Again, the 16 dummy slots were found in the game's code in January 2019 (before Plant was even added) before being removed and, coincidentally, this is the max number of characters that could be added to the base game before it goes the way of Elvis on August 16th, 1977.

 

[Trevenant]

And, as if that wasn't smacking people hard enough in the face, Sakurai said this past January that the post past was originally envisioned as ONE OR TWO CHARACTERS. You can basically count on one hand that Sakurai has mentioned in a positive light that haven't been made playable yet and Geno's one of them, yet another big reason I believe Geno will be early in Season 2 and that, not only is a Namco rep super likely, but Lloyd and Heihachi are probably the only two he has taken seriously for the spot.

TBH as ARMS is fighter 6 that probably was one of the characters. It could have been changed but I doubt it.

 

[Droodle]

And, as if that wasn't smacking people hard enough in the face, Sakurai said this past January that the post past was originally envisioned as ONE OR TWO CHARACTERS. You can basically count on one hand that Sakurai has mentioned in a positive light that haven't been made playable yet and Geno's one of them, yet another big reason I believe Geno will be early in Season 2 and that, not only is a Namco rep super likely, but Lloyd and Heihachi are probably the only two he has taken seriously for the spot.

That begs the question. If only 1-2 characters were planned originally, then what about the rest of the "missing" mii costumes? We're missing Chocobo, Geno, Heihachi, Lloyd, Gil, Rathalos, and Hunter. All those indicate 3 companies, but originally the plan was to just have 1-2 characters as a bonus. If we only ended up getting 1 fighter, would they just cram all the remaining Mii costumes into there? Or would they just not bother with bringing them back, and focus on creating new costumes based on the series of that character.

A new Namco character feels inevitable (90%+ likely) at this point, they're missing 3 costumes from 3 entirely different series. If they got no character, then they could have just moved Heihachi to the Terry mii costumes. Heihachi or Lloyd make sense, but it could end up being someone completely different. Capcom and Square, I'm a little bit mixed on both of them.

Capcom: We're missing 2 costumes, but in the end it's just 1 series. Resident Evil is one of their biggest series, but they were fine with them getting spirited. Monster Hunter had an assist in base, but I don't really think that counts them out anymore. So really, we have Monster Hunter, DMC, and Phoenix Wright as their biggest potential series at this point. There are also smaller but inactive/unrequested series like Okami, Darkstalkers, and Viewtiful Joe. However, I could see the Monster Hunter costumes return with another companies character, and DMC and AA get spirited.

Square-Enix: I think a rep from them is pretty likely (not as much as Bamco, but more then Capcom). The DQ costumes didn't contain Chocobo/Geno, which is a big omission. However, as others have brought up; we did only end up getting DQ/Enix costumes alongside Hero, which may explain the lack of Square costumes (perhaps the 2 sides of the company are distinct from each other like Activision Blizzard). Due to all the things supporting him, Geno is the front-runner here, but the competition is pretty fierce comparatively to Capcom/Bamco. You have characters like Sephiroth, Tifa, Lara Croft, 2B, BD characters, and a potential Sora. Again, I lean on a playable Square character but a potential costume/costumes coming in with another Square Rep could change things completely.

I've heard people say that Square will not pair up their own property with other 3rd party characters; but I don't actually know where it came from? Sure, it hasn't happened yet, but we've only ever had 2 Square characters; which really isn't enough evidence to throw out the idea completely. I do think it's unlikely, but getting a Square costume with a Namco/Nintendo/Capcom character is completely within the realm of possibility. That said, I still thinking getting another Square fighter is more likely then them getting costumed alongside a different companies character.

TBH as ARMS is fighter 6 that probably was one of the characters. It could have been changed but I doubt it.

Yeah this too. If let's say ARMS was character 6 and Lloyd/Heihachi were character 7, then the we should have had all the mii costumes in by then; obviously things changed since then, but if that were the case it's possible that something like the ARMS fighter was originally going to be a large pack of missing costumes.

However, this depends on the assumption that the first characters that are negotiated for end up coming first in the fighters pass. It's also possible that they get the rights to the character/content of each company first and then decide on the order of release later (meaning that there's a sick twisted timeline where Geno ends up as fighter 11 instead of 7 or 8). However, with ARMS being 1st party; it also messes with the rule a bit, it's possible that the 1-2 bonus characters would always contain ARMS + 1 more.

Since both Byleth and Banjo Kazooie (two heavily Nintendo associated characters) contained 0 costumes from their own series, but rather costumes from random 3rd/1st party titles; it's completely possible the ARMS character has costumes completely unrelated mii costumes and potentially even some returning costumes (hopefully not Geno).

EDIT: Another potential thing that struck me while I was writing this is that Sakurai just said that "Originally, 1-2 more characters were planned". But he never states that he had a clear idea of who those characters were at the time, it may have been a situation where he agreed to work on more characters, but the characters themselves were not planned at the time. Even if he knew those 2 characters and 1 of them was from ARMS, wouldn't it make more sense for the 2nd character to be Rex and Pyra compared to Geno/Bamco. Sakurai did say that he wanted ARMS and Rex in base, and with ARMS being 1 of those characters there's more precedence for Rex being the 2nd one. While I dislike Rex, he was definitely more requested then an ARMS character and is one of the most requested "promotions" especially in Japan. I doubt that the order of release is the order they get the rights to a character, but if it is that could mean that Rex is potentially character 7.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

That begs the question. If only 1-2 characters were planned originally, then what about the rest of the "missing" mii costumes? We're missing Chocobo, Geno, Heihachi, Lloyd, Gil, Rathalos, and Hunter. All those indicate 3 companies, but originally the plan was to just have 1-2 characters as a bonus. If we only ended up getting 1 fighter, would they just cram all the remaining Mii costumes into there? Or would they just not bother with bringing them back, and focus on creating new costumes based on the series of that character.

A new Namco character feels inevitable (90%+ likely) at this point, they're missing 3 costumes from 3 entirely different series. If they got no character, then they could have just moved Heihachi to the Terry mii costumes. Heihachi or Lloyd make sense, but it could end up being someone completely different. Capcom and Square, I'm a little bit mixed on both of them.

Capcom: We're missing 2 costumes, but in the end it's just 1 series. Resident Evil is one of their biggest series, but they were fine with them getting spirited. Monster Hunter had an assist in base, but I don't really think that counts them out anymore. So really, we have Monster Hunter, DMC, and Phoenix Wright as their biggest potential series at this point. There are also smaller but inactive/unrequested series like Okami, Darkstalkers, and Viewtiful Joe. However, I could see the Monster Hunter costumes return with another companies character, and DMC and AA get spirited.

Square-Enix: I think a rep from them is pretty likely (not as much as Bamco, but more then Capcom). The DQ costumes didn't contain Chocobo/Geno, which is a big omission. However, as others have brought up; we did only end up getting DQ/Enix costumes alongside Hero, which may explain the lack of Square costumes (perhaps the 2 sides of the company are distinct from each other like Activision Blizzard). Due to all the things supporting him, Geno is the front-runner here, but the competition is pretty fierce comparatively to Capcom/Bamco. You have characters like Sephiroth, Tifa, Lara Croft, 2B, BD characters, and a potential Sora. Again, I lean on a playable Square character but a potential costume/costumes coming in with another Square Rep could change things completely.

I've heard people say that Square will not pair up their own property with other 3rd party characters; but I don't actually know where it came from? Sure, it hasn't happened yet, but we've only ever had 2 Square characters; which really isn't enough evidence to throw out the idea completely. I do think it's unlikely, but getting a Square costume with a Namco/Nintendo/Capcom character is completely within the realm of possibility. That said, I still thinking getting another Square fighter is more likely then them getting costumed alongside a different companies character.


Yeah this too. If let's say ARMS was character 6 and Lloyd/Heihachi were character 7, then the we should have had all the mii costumes in by then; obviously things changed since then, but if that were the case it's possible that something like the ARMS fighter was originally going to be a large pack of missing costumes.

However, this depends on the assumption that the first characters that are negotiated for end up coming first in the fighters pass. It's also possible that they get the rights to the character/content of each company first and then decide on the order of release later (meaning that there's a sick twisted timeline where Geno ends up as fighter 11 instead of 7 or 8). However, with ARMS being 1st party; it also messes with the rule a bit, it's possible that the 1-2 bonus characters would always contain ARMS + 1 more.

Since both Byleth and Banjo Kazooie (two heavily Nintendo associated characters) contained 0 costumes from their own series, but rather costumes from random 3rd/1st party titles; it's completely possible the ARMS character has costumes completely unrelated mii costumes and potentially even some returning costumes (hopefully not Geno).

Maybe because we were going to have those costumes back but they didn't return because they had just decided on Pass 2 anyway? If they were just going to do one or two, then the costumes probably would've come back in Pass 1 and with those bonus characters. It's not like they couldn't have all come in the first pass since they all correlate well with several characters.

Hero: Geno and Chocobo (Next door neighbors to the Heroes)

Banjo: All four Mega Men (They're all platformer heroes after all)

Terry: Heihachi (Fighting game characters unite)

Byleth: Lloyd and the Monster Hunters (Medieval-style characters)

That's why I think a lot of our stuff was grab bag in Pass 1 because they had to compensate with the idea of pushing these other costumes towards a second pass rather than keep them all in Pass 1.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That begs the question. If only 1-2 characters were planned originally, then what about the rest of the "missing" mii costumes? We're missing Chocobo, Geno, Heihachi, Lloyd, Gil, Rathalos, and Hunter. All those indicate 3 companies, but originally the plan was to just have 1-2 characters as a bonus. If we only ended up getting 1 fighter, would they just cram all the remaining Mii costumes into there? Or would they just not bother with bringing them back, and focus on creating new costumes based on the series of that character.

We've gone into this in the past but "Power of Six" theory covers this pretty well.

Hypothesis: The Fighter's Pass was originally planned as one and done.

-Every pack was originally meant to have 6 Mii costumes with all but Banjo's heavily themed.

-"Premium" costumes were probably not part of the original plan.

Based on all this, we can speculate that the costume spread of the Fighter's Pass was probably originally similar to this:

Joker: 4 Persona costumes, 2 Sonic costumes (All SEGA)

Hero: 4 DQ costumes, Chocobo, and Geno (All Square)

Banjo: 4 Megaman costumes, Goemon, and Rocket Grunt (Grab bag)

Terry: 3 SNK costumes, 2 Virtua Fighter costumes, and Heihachi (all fighting games)

Byleth: 2 Monster Hunter costumes, Lloyd, Gil, Ancient Armor, and Rex (Fantasy RPG, all swords)

Now, thanks to Imran Khan, we know that Season 2 wasn't green lit until around E3 2019, possibly explaining why Joker was the only pack with a full 6 costumes and Hero only had 4. Under this model, all the Smash 4 third party costumes come back too.

So, as things currently stand, the Smash 4 costumes that are currently missing are Capcom, Square, and Namco, heavily suggesting each will appear in Season 2. Based on this model, we correctly predicted that there would be a Nintendo (specifically first party) pack in Season 2 based on the absence of first party Mii costumes in the packs. Although many people disagree with me, I also use this model to predict a Microsoft pack because of the lack of a true RARE or Microsoft costume in the Fighter's Pass.

Circling back, we have decent evidence that Nintendo was at the very least considering post pass content as early as November 2018 and that they probably already had several characters in mind. Season 2, however, would not start development until about 7 months later. This said, these "one or two extras" were probably made into full blown packs and heavily suggested to be no later than 9 if they were already being considered in 2018.

 

[Trevenant]

Byleth: 2 Monster Hunter costumes, Lloyd, Gil, Ancient Armor, and Rex (Fantasy RPG, all swords)

If anything Rex was probably planned as a base game mii outfit but pushed forward just as an incentive for people to buy the pass as there is another mii outfit of a character from XC2 in game. It would be kind of weird to have that character there (who I don't think I should name in case of spoilers) but not Rex suggesting they just pushed it back so that part just falls to shreds. That and why would a Rex costume be held off for nearly 2 years despite the presence of said content also including music and spirits etc.

 

[YsDisciple]

I know we're still waiting for news on what we'll be getting for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 (which characters, stages, and music) but, it just crossed my mind; imagine as CP 10 is unveiled and the announcer goes on to say the following:

"Five of the six fighters from the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 have already been unveiled. It seems we're almost reaching the end."

WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

EVEN MORE DLC IS ON THE WAY!!!

"That's right. Beyond the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, there will be more characters joining the roster. More news will be shared at a later date."

At this point, chances of this happening are abysmal. However, if by the will of the universe and causality, a THIRD Fighters Pass were to be announced (perhaps with less CPs), that would be a galaxy brain announcement. Literately like, HOW?!?!?!

 

[MattX20]

I know we're still waiting for news on what we'll be getting for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 (which characters, stages, and music) but, it just crossed my mind; imagine as CP 10 is unveiled and the announcer goes on to say the following:

"Five of the six fighters from the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 have already been unveiled. It seems we're almost reaching the end."

WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

EVEN MORE DLC IS ON THE WAY!!!

"That's right. Beyond the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, there will be more characters joining the roster. More news will be shared at a later date."

At this point, chances of this happening are abysmal. However, if by the will of the universe and causality, a THIRD Fighters Pass were to be announced (perhaps with less CPs), that would be a galaxy brain announcement. Literately like, HOW?!?!?!

I'm not sure if I'm ready for that just yet. Especially when we don't even have half of the characters revealed

 

[MisterMike]

Probably one of the most frustrating things about Ultimate is that the coincidences for Geno have piled up a mile high for almost two years now and yet "the List™" is still regularly dismissed. I mean, goody for us because that will make the Dunk of the Decade™ slam down that much harder but it's like... how do people literally dismiss everything as purely coincidental? As we have gone over time and time again, the list is pretty ****in' huge at this point so to totally ignore everything is just setting up the most avid of detractors for legendary downfalls that they will likely never live down within the Smash fanbase.

Simple: Because in spite of Sakurai going all out to try and appease all of us with the character picks this time around, character picks that we've wanted since forever ago, they still refuse to believe NEVER EVER characters like Geno are likely or even possible. Even after Ridley, Daisy, the Belmonts, Chrom, Dark Samus, King K. Rool, and even flipping Banjo & Kazooie, they still continue to dig their heels into the dirt and loudly proclaim that the only characters we'll be getting from here on out will be shill picks and safe choices. **** like a Gen 8 Pokemon or *insert currently relevant video game character here*.

As such, anything that could support the idea that a character like Geno might be in the cards for DLC is brushed away as a bunch of Pepe Silvia-tier conspiracy theories. Never mind that the Mii Costume List had managed to correctly call almost all of Banjo's costumes. Never mind that the CacoMallow post is upwards of 6 months old at this point and nothing has come out that disproves it. And never mind the fact that, despite there having been several perfect opprotunities to bring it back, we still don't have Geno's Mii Costume. Nah mate, all of that's just cRaZy cOnSpIrAcY tHeOrIeS1!

 

[Droodle]

We've gone into this in the past but "Power of Six" theory covers this pretty well.

Hypothesis: The Fighter's Pass was originally planned as one and done.

-Every pack was originally meant to have 6 Mii costumes with all but Banjo's heavily themed.

-"Premium" costumes were probably not part of the original plan.

Based on all this, we can speculate that the costume spread of the Fighter's Pass was probably originally similar to this:

Joker: 4 Persona costumes, 2 Sonic costumes (All SEGA)

Hero: 4 DQ costumes, Chocobo, and Geno (All Square)

Banjo: 4 Megaman costumes, Goemon, and Rocket Grunt (Grab bag)

Terry: 3 SNK costumes, 2 Virtua Fighter costumes, and Heihachi (all fighting games)

Byleth: 2 Monster Hunter costumes, Lloyd, Gil, Ancient Armor, and Rex (Fantasy RPG, all swords)

Now, thanks to Imran Khan, we know that Season 2 wasn't green lit until around E3 2019, possibly explaining why Joker was the only pack with a full 6 costumes and Hero only had 4. Under this model, all the Smash 4 third party costumes come back too.

So, as things currently stand, the Smash 4 costumes that are currently missing are Capcom, Square, and Namco, heavily suggesting each will appear in Season 2. Based on this model, we correctly predicted that there would be a Nintendo (specifically first party) pack in Season 2 based on the absence of first party Mii costumes in the packs. Although many people disagree with me, I also use this model to predict a Microsoft pack because of the lack of a true RARE or Microsoft costume in the Fighter's Pass.

Circling back, we have decent evidence that Nintendo was at the very least considering post pass content as early as November 2018 and that they probably already had several characters in mind. Season 2, however, would not start development until about 7 months later. This said, these "one or two extras" were probably made into full blown packs and heavily suggested to be no later than 9 if they were already being considered in 2018.

Well, if we presume the idea that Cacomallow is real; most of these costumes are worked around 7+ months in advance meaning that they were likely planning something like Sans pretty early on, likely January-March (but perhaps as early as launch). They probably thought of "premium" costumes after Sans was pretty far into development, and upgraded him from there. But that would also mean that they had to acquire the rights to Altair, Rabbids, and Cuphead right around the time season 2 had actually been greenlit (in order to make up for the shuffling of Lloyd + Monster Hunter + Gil). In that case, wouldn't it have been easier to replace those costumes with Three Houses rather then Ubisoft? It feels like they ended up creating more work for themselves by bringing Ubisoft and MDHR into this when in the end they didn't really need to.

One "out there" idea I can think of is that if your post really does contain the original "plan" for mii costumes is if Nintendo ended up approaching Ubisoft around the time season 2 was in planning stages (so right after it had been greenlit). Maybe for a potential Rayman playable fighter. They knew that they would have to change the "planned" mii costumes of later waves in case they wanted to do another Bamco/Capcom/Square character, so they ended up getting some "extra" Ubisoft mii costumes to use as filler replacements (Altair/Rabbids). Rayman definitely has enough characters to make 6 costumes by itself. It would also explain why there was no Rayman costume alongside Altair/Rabbids, when he is the most requested Ubisoft character with presence already in Smash and high ties to Nintendo. There's also been a decent amount of things pointing in favor of Rayman (although nothing concrete).

Rex was definitely not meant to be released alongside Byleth. Nia is already a costume in the base game, there are already xenoblade 2 spirits, it's more likely that they held off and made Rex Pass DLC rather then kept him in the base game. Zero makes more sense as a Byleth costume compared to Banjo if we go the swordie route.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

I know we're still waiting for news on what we'll be getting for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 (which characters, stages, and music) but, it just crossed my mind; imagine as CP 10 is unveiled and the announcer goes on to say the following:

"Five of the six fighters from the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 have already been unveiled. It seems we're almost reaching the end."

WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

EVEN MORE DLC IS ON THE WAY!!!

"That's right. Beyond the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, there will be more characters joining the roster. More news will be shared at a later date."

At this point, chances of this happening are abysmal. However, if by the will of the universe and causality, a THIRD Fighters Pass were to be announced (perhaps with less CPs), that would be a galaxy brain announcement. Literately like, HOW?!?!?!

My heart couldn't take that kind of wait.

 

[Qeomash]

I know we're still waiting for news on what we'll be getting for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 (which characters, stages, and music) but, it just crossed my mind; imagine as CP 10 is unveiled and the announcer goes on to say the following:

"Five of the six fighters from the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 have already been unveiled. It seems we're almost reaching the end."

WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

EVEN MORE DLC IS ON THE WAY!!!

"That's right. Beyond the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, there will be more characters joining the roster. More news will be shared at a later date."

At this point, chances of this happening are abysmal. However, if by the will of the universe and causality, a THIRD Fighters Pass were to be announced (perhaps with less CPs), that would be a galaxy brain announcement. Literately like, HOW?!?!?!

Smash's character select screen can currently support 4 more characters past the pass. That being said, I think it's very unlikely.

 

[MattX20]

It's going to be an interesting presentation/direct when it happens I think

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Pet Peeve: the term "Premium Costume." Like, what does that mean? Costumes that cover the entire body? Costumes that come with a music track? Both? Like, the term is loosely thrown around and by that logic, you could argue that the Black Knight costume is technically a premium as it covers the entire body and comes with a song (Black Knight's theme) as early as base. I hate that we're calling it "premium" because Nintendo doesn't call it that and it's not even technically something new to Mii costumes at all. There's not even a price difference either. Am I the only one who thinks that?

 

[Deleted member]

Pet Peeve: the term "Premium Costume." Like, what does that mean? Costumes that cover the entire body? Costumes that come with a music track? Both? Like, the term is loosely thrown around and by that logic, you could argue that the Black Knight costume is technically a premium as it covers the entire body and comes with a song (Black Knight's theme) as early as base. I hate that we're calling it "premium" because Nintendo doesn't call it that and it's not even technically something new to Mii costumes at all. There's not even a price difference either. Am I the only one who thinks that?

I thought the same thing. Especially that premium costume is not even a real term.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pet Peeve: the term "Premium Costume." Like, what does that mean? Costumes that cover the entire body? Costumes that come with a music track? Both? Like, the term is loosely thrown around and by that logic, you could argue that the Black Knight costume is technically a premium as it covers the entire body and comes with a song (Black Knight's theme) as early as base. I hate that we're calling it "premium" because Nintendo doesn't call it that and it's not even technically something new to Mii costumes at all. There's not even a price difference either. Am I the only one who thinks that?

The only thing that's clear is it comes with music. That's... it. Pretty sure that's all that defines it too. Also, to be fair, Black Knight wasn't a DLC costume but base, so it couldn't "come" with music.

I'd wait and see.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I know we're still waiting for news on what we'll be getting for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 (which characters, stages, and music) but, it just crossed my mind; imagine as CP 10 is unveiled and the announcer goes on to say the following:

"Five of the six fighters from the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 have already been unveiled. It seems we're almost reaching the end."

WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

EVEN MORE DLC IS ON THE WAY!!!

"That's right. Beyond the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, there will be more characters joining the roster. More news will be shared at a later date."

At this point, chances of this happening are abysmal. However, if by the will of the universe and causality, a THIRD Fighters Pass were to be announced (perhaps with less CPs), that would be a galaxy brain announcement. Literately like, HOW?!?!?!

Smash's character select screen can currently support 4 more characters past the pass. That being said, I think it's very unlikely.

If we are indeed getting a third Fighters Pass (which I've no idea, maybe it'll happen, maybe not), I definitely think it'll come with at least two big asterisks...

1. If it's happening, we won't know about it until somewhere around Fighters 9 or 10. During the first Fighters Pass, we didn't know a second one was coming until just after Terry being revealed as Fighter 4.
2. It'll likely have less content overall. Not just less characters (maximum of four), but also less music and spirits, and they might not even come with stages (though that could potentially be a blessing in disguise for characters like Waluigi and Bandana Waddle Dee, who people constantly rule out because they can't bring a full set of content with them).

 

[MrJudd]

Polarthief Something just came up that can be added to update The List: I was just watching the SpawnCast, like I do every Saturday night and Jeff Grubb was there as a guest. Close to the end, someone in the donations asked to the cast "Who would be their dream Smash Fighter?". He just answered with one word: "Geno". This puts context in the weird retweets, but I wouldn't discard that all of this can be a tease. The way he delivered sounded like something he was really confident on, but I may be just seeing things at this point of the speculation.

Off-topic: There was also a mention of Crash by someone who knew about Spyro on Switch before announcement last E3 and Jon mentioning Master Chief, but again, I may just be seeing things.

 

[Polarthief]

Polarthief Something just came up that can be added to update The List: I was just watching the SpawnCast, like I do every Saturday night and Jeff Grubb was there as a guest. Close to the end, someone in the donations asked to the cast "Who would be their dream Smash Fighter?". He just answered with one word: "Geno". This puts context in the weird retweets, but I wouldn't discard that all of this can be a tease. The way he delivered sounded like something he was really confident on, but I may be just seeing things at this point of the speculation.

Firstly, uwu~

Second, that's actually disappointing to hear. Don't get me wrong, it's GREAT that Grubb's dream fighter is Geno, but that "makes sense" as to why he keeps posting SMRPG stuff, instead of "oh he's teasing Geno oh shiiiiiiiiii---!", y'know?

Could you get me that clip by chance? Like a timestamp or w/e on the video?

 

[Lagguino]

Polarthief Something just came up that can be added to update The List: I was just watching the SpawnCast, like I do every Saturday night and Jeff Grubb was there as a guest. Close to the end, someone in the donations asked to the cast "Who would be their dream Smash Fighter?". He just answered with one word: "Geno". This puts context in the weird retweets, but I wouldn't discard that all of this can be a tease. The way he delivered sounded like something he was really confident on, but I may be just seeing things at this point of the speculation.

Off-topic: There was also a mention of Crash by someone who knew about Spyro on Switch before announcement last E3 and Jon mentioning Master Chief, but again, I may just be seeing things.

Just asking do you have the vid and timeframe? Just curious.

 

[StarLight42]

1:49:30

I believe they are all asked who they want in Smash or something and Jeff just goes "Genooooo". Nothing else happened.

 

[YsDisciple]

Just came across this tweet in regards to the frequently requested 7-11 ads and, seeing this one I felt a sudden sense of concern.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Polarthief]

1:49:30

I believe they are all asked who they want in Smash or something and Jeff just goes "Genooooo". Nothing else happened.

Yeah... idk about that being a "confident in Geno" thing like MrJudd was saying, that was more he really wants Geno.

Still adding this on, but there wasn't any hinting or anything here.

Edit: Rip in my rush to post the video, I forgot to give credit, sorry Judd! I have corrected that mistake.

Just came across this tweet in regards to the frequently requested 7-11 ads and, seeing this one I felt a sudden sense of concern.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL RAIN HELLFIRE UPON GF AND TPC! DX

 

[Lord Woomy]

Just came across this tweet in regards to the frequently requested 7-11 ads and, seeing this one I felt a sudden sense of concern.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Everyone calm down, the ad wasn't there for Terry's presentation when it happened.

 

[Deleted member]

Just came across this tweet in regards to the frequently requested 7-11 ads and, seeing this one I felt a sudden sense of concern.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I think there’s nothing to worry about. I think it is totally unrelated. I’m still expecting ARMS reveal/release tomorrow or early in the week. If I recall correctly, Terry was revealed before he was on an AD.

 

[HudU]

I just rewatched the Banjo Presentation (because why not) and something tells me Geno might actually have a chance at fighter 7. Sakurai said the goal of the extra fighters was to please the fans, and In the Byleth presentation, he admitted he was probably only going to do one or two more initially. "I thought one or two might suffice.."

It also goes well with the timing/music takedowns and the leaked mii costumes. (on top of Number 77 fitting Geno well), Think: Rare said they talked about Banjo in smash at E3 2018 (With him being revealed E3 2019, and the Mii Costume list/music takedowns being around 1 year ago at this point), and just months before (Around 5 or so), Grant got contacted for the musical remixes he did for ultimate, which with delays, id say is about right with Cacomallow. (A couple months more because of CV, and it might take longer for mii costumes than music).

I don't know, just some thoughts I had. I also thought about the Sans costume and how Sakurai stated Sans was a popular request and that's why he wanted to add him, meaning they probably would have done the Geno costume already knowing he's been a popular pick for years seeing how easy it is to port, than make a new costume for a character. I couldn't imagine them adding Sans as a mii because he's popular, and not Geno in any form (mii port or playable) even though Geno is inherently popular and they went after those picks for both base game (KRool and Ridley), along with DLC (Banjo).

I could go on and on about the other stuff too, about how Geno's costume wasn't revealed with Hero, and how Cacomallow is real and not a mod, or even how western favorites have been revealed at western events like E3, meaning Geno/#7 would fit really well but I just wanted to express my thoughts after rewatching the Banjo Presentation, and kind of assuring myself he might come. I always have doubts, so its nice to pay attention to even the small details adding up. **Its all coming together**